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What Do Evangelicals Really Want?

What if followers of Jesus won every election for leadership and public policy? What if, in the process, we collectively earned a reputation for being a decent and honest people? What if we were universally regarded, not as self-righteous, money-loving, hypocrites, but as faithful, sincere advocates of personal and social morality? What if all of our leaders and churches were models of moral uprightness? What if none of our members were unethical in business, deceptive in politics, or unfaithful to our wives?

What if we were able to do with our generation what Moses was never able to do with God’s chosen people?

Would we have fulfilled our mission? Would we have reached our goal?

Note: after sensing some of the frustration in the discussion below, I’m simplifying the list of hypotheticals to 1 question after the 20th comment. I really do think there’s a point here that deserves some careful thought.


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41 Responses to “What Do Evangelicals Really Want?”

  1. BruceC says:

    No, to both of your last two questions. Jesus told us to go into all the world and preach the Gospel, baptising them and making disciples. He also commanded us to love Him with all that we are and to love our fellow man as we love ourselves. So the above scenario does not fit that criteria.
    However; and please don’t take this the wrong way, but I would truly like to know what the definition of an “evangelical Christian” is. I mean it’s not different than just a Christian is it? Or is it just a label that the world uses to describe certain people as it does with others. I myself don’t expect this nation or any other to ever become perfect; but I would like to see many things turned around and restored to what they were before. Things that existed before what I refer to as the liberal movement came along and an obvious pattern emerged. I love my country and its people and pray for it much; but I am deeply saddened by its condition.

  2. SFDBWV says:

    WHAT IF……hmm

    There are multiple questions you have put forward in this mornings Post.
    What do evangelicals realy want? If I follow your advice again and look up the word, Evangelical,on Wikpedia. Once again I find multiple definitions applied to the term.
    I am supposing you are refering to the political rather than the theological aspect of the word or rather “label” used in the question.

    In the years Jesus was first exercising his public ministry. The Zealots and other politicaly like minded people of that day, Tried to use Jesus as a pawn to achieve their own “self” serving purposes. Nothing has changed. Some people today use “Christianity’ as a political lever to achieve their own personal gains. Nothing new under the sun there.

    However, what if followers of Jesus were able to defeat the corruption sin has reduced our political process to? Through the electoral process.

    Here is where your question takes a turn.

    If we were able to achieve that perfect scociety on our own. Then sin would have to be absent from the world. We may be able to come very close to achieving our own “Eden”. But we are not given the power to completely rid creation of sin. To our KING and LORD JESUS the CHRIST, only, is given that ability. Because only HE is worthy.

    The simple answer to your question, Mart. Is that if we were somehow to elect leaders in our society at every level of government, and as a society be living as God intended for us to, eventualy we would once again fail. Because sin is still loose in creation.

    The what if, aspect of the question, dosen’t alter the fact that followers of Jesus should always elect leaders as prescribed in the WORD. What does the scripture say about electing elders,deacons,bishops? Should we not also apply that same principal in electing leaders in government? I say yes.

    When Jesus returns, and we have that perfect exsistance under his Kingship. Even that is temporary. After 1000 years God will once again release sin into our perfect world. Once again people will fail. God then will destroy sin once and forall and create a New Heaven and a New Earth.

    God is in Control, not us.

  3. SFDBWV says:

    A second thought….
    Look at the Amish. They live as close to being seperated from the world as any Christian group.

    They seem to have everything they need, are only awaiting the return of their KING.

    They are also evangelical in the theological sense.

  4. Mart De Haan says:

    Good discussion and additional questions. So much needs to be weighed and clarified. The issue remains confusing though the election has been decided. I hope others will join the conversation…

  5. Your Love Inspires says:

    “Witness” is the action that comes to mind… an action that if taken seriously, would result in a powerfull, world changing testimony of who Jesus really is. A “greater good” mentality seems to have justified some pretty heinous deceipt as of late… causing the “Living Water” through greed, misplaced self rightiousness, and outright distortion of “The Truth” to become a murky message.

    Sorry about this assessment but from where I stand… (on The Word) it is what it is… and unfortunately from what I see… this sad circumstance is not going to change until He comes back and “fleshes it out” unless we get serious about accountability for ourselves and our brethren. God is in control but He also gave us free will to follow him or not in Spirit and in Truth and He gave us His Word to guide us in our “witness.”

  6. cherielyn says:

    SFDBWV – re: your comment on Amish…. I recently learned of an incident that saddened (and shocked) me, because I had understood that the Amish try to live “close to God,” yet, in spite of living “separate from the world,” they still live in a sinful world, same as the rest of us. A friend of my son bought a Friesian Horse from an Amish person in order to breed it. They paid full price and found, later, that they could not breed it as they had wanted to. Apparently a Friesian Horse must be pure black with no white on it. After owning it for a very short time, they found that it had white on it’s legs that had been camoflaged with black dye or shoe polish when they bought it. They should not have been charged the full price for that horse. It saddened me to realize that a group I held in high esteem is no better than the rest of us. Goes to show that you should never put anyone on a pedestal except for God Himself and Jesus Christ, because anyone else will ultimately fail you.

  7. SFDBWV says:

    cherielyn, My point exactly. Sin ruins every good thing imagined by man. I know many Amish and Menonite people. They are just like us. Trying to seperate ourselves from the world doesn’t rid us of the influence of sin.

  8. Mart De Haan says:

    BruceC, I really mean for our discussion to be about “followers of Christ” but used in the title the label that has become socially contentious.

  9. violet D says:

    “What if” – is an interesting exercise but after reading 2 Peter 2-3 where he warns of events in ‘the day of the Lord’ – I don’t believe we will ever be living in an ideal world. My faith and hope is in the fact that God is in control and I must strive to be like Jesus knowing that “he who began a good work in me will carry it on to completion –” Phil. 1:6

  10. macsisson22 says:

    When I look at the “heros of the faith”, as I mentioned in another blog, I see real men with real problems; like Davy Crockett in todays ODB. Noah the drunkard, Moses the murderer, David the adulterer, Peter, the apostle with the foot shaped mouth. ….

    When I think of myself in the light of what I should be, while making attempts along the way to “be perfect” as my Heavenly Father is perfect, I also have to recognize that I WILL falter! If I say I have no sin, I deceive myself and the truth is not in me!

    But I am the kind of fool that continues to make the attempts after falling time and time again. I strive to remenber that “the old man” is not dead and departed, but crucified and close and it is my choice to serve either the savior or sin. Like my “heros”

    Shamefully, I often cast my vote for the later and masquerade or veil my face so that others cannot see the fading glory.

    Then God lifts me up!

    But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him.

    “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”

  11. geclayton says:

    It hurts me that the theological leaders in the U.S. have been so misguided in politics. If you listen to them, you come away with the conclusion that voting Republican will bring you closer to the Lord, and voting Democrat will take away your salvation. No where in the Bible does God ever link a person’s salvation or righteousness to government leadership.

    In 1 Samuel 8:5-22, we see that Israel desires a human government over the theocracy of the Lord. The Lord warns that even with great, God loving Jews (i.e. King Saul and King David), a human king’s greed and other sinful ways will be a burden on the people and the king’s sins will affect the people. As a reminder, these were the Lord’s chosen people, Israel, and they suffered the effects of sinful leadership under the very humans that the Lord Himself had appointed.

    Please lose the expectation that human leadership; especially Republican, will lead us to a great day in America. The point the Lord made in 1 Samuel is that anything less than Him on the throne will result in sin, no matter how Christ centered the person is (e.g. King David and King Solomon). President Bush’s 8 years in office has not ended abortion as we know it, and from what I can tell, sin is still occurring and will continue to occur.

    I pray everyone voted because they have a God given right to do so, and every American has a right to hold office regardless of their ethnic group. The Lord never instituted a racist hierarchy; that is man’s sinful invention that somehow got taught within today’s churches. The Lord has asked that as we go throughout life, we do evangelism and discipleship (Matt. 28, the Great Commission), not overthrow every sinner in government. I hope that we can focus more on doing the Lord’s will, i.e. serving widows and the fatherless (Zechariah 7, James 1) instead of losing countless hours trying to prevent the very thing that needs to be in place for Christ’s return, i.e. a nation led by sinful ways. In Matt. 24, the Lord states that because iniquity abounds, the love of many will wax cold. The Lord is returning to rescue us from a world choked in sin, not the Garden of Eden.

    God Bless and take care!

  12. poohpity says:

    I believe if ALL Christians just did an inch, just one inch, of what Jesus asked us to and let others know with a sincere heart that there is only perfection in God and we fall so short. What if the moon were made of chocolate? What if my mom doesn’t have cancer? What if my children just even gave a thought to my wisdom? What if we were able to show love to just one person today? What if we just feed one hungry person? What if we gave a pair of shoes to someone (not even new) who needed them. What if we gave one pair of socks to some who had cold feet. What if just for today we thought about our words before we speak them? What if today we did not judge one person? What if we lived our faith for just one hour? What if we emailed or called some one who we have seen around to find out how their are? What if we had a smile when we meet someone and give them a hug? What are “what if’s”??? They are blah blah blah!!!!

  13. Ted M. Gossard says:

    I believe the gospel of the kingdom of God come in Jesus embraces all of life, not just conversions, though as evangelical Christians, we rightly make that a central concern of our work in the gospel.

    The gospel impacts all of creation, in the new creation in Jesus, beginning now, though ever subject to the downward movement of sin, as well as the curse to be removed only when heaven and earth becomes one in Jesus as told us at the end of the Book.

    I take gospel as good news in a broad sense, enveloping all that in Christ God has reconciled to himself. So that Jesus’ revelation as in the Sermon on the Mount, etc,. to be lived out by the church, which is the salt of the earth, and the light of the world in him- does impact both indirectly through conversions, and directly- politics and all of life, or is to so impact them. And that this revelation in Jesus is to be a light to people and to nations, by which they will be held accountable.

    How that works out in our lives as individual Christians is surely as different as each of us is different. We all have our role to play, I believe. With consequences for here, but that go beyond this life as well (end of 1 Cor 15).

    Just kind of a sketch of where I am at this time.

    But who we elect and all the factors we must weigh end up really being gray, and require much prayer and judgment to be made- because none of us are solely black or white strictly speaking, since we all have sin. And I can imagine God leading Christians perhaps to do things which appear contrary in superficial ways, but can end up in God’s working in moving toward the same goal.

  14. Mart De Haan says:

    It’s so interesting– and I think important– to hear all of the different ways we hear a statement or question. When I was thinking of these questions early this a.m. I was thinking that, even if we realized all of these “what ifs,” it would be possible to do so and still be a “dangerous religious group” that missed the heart and main point of our mission.

  15. poohpity says:

    LOL!!

  16. drkennyg says:

    The term evangelical tends to bring to mind in most Americans today an association with the “Christian Right” thus implying that such a person is most likely a Republican politically and at least very “conservative”. I assure you that this is just my own observations. I’m a born again Christian and believe in the truth of the Bible and that following Jesus Christ is the only way to everlasting life where I can be in Eternity with my Lord and Savior worshiping Him forever. However on this sinful earth I am a Democrat who often votes for more freedom not less yet I remain opposed to abortion and such unfathomable things like “same-sex” marriage. So I am certainly not a Fundamentalist or an Evangelical Left yet I support capital punishment (which would include life imprisonment, no parole) and some kind of limited gun control which does not prevent ownership of most weapons.

    It is a fact that the majority of Americans are Christian yet we are certainly “all mixed up”. Consequently most non-believers regard us as self-righteous hypocritical Bible thumpers. I often get pounded by some people when I try to spread the Gospel (a difficult task indeed, but one that Christ called for us to do). Thus I don’t give up but rather cheerfully (as much as possible) accept this rejection. The verbal attacks (reflex reactions of some) tend to be loaded with foul language of the most bizarre type; sometimes it’s impossible to tell what it is that the offended person(s) is(are) actually saying!

    Thus while I don’t think we as Christians will ever out perform Moses we mostly remain undeterred and press on to the prize.

  17. SFDBWV says:

    Just re read the post and all the comments.

    Mart, if you wanted to explore the possibilities of the dangers of a utopian society. There are many good science fiction books on the subject. All of them fail in the end and collapse on themselves.

    Moses gained the respect of the Hebrews only because God intervened on his behalf. God showed stark and amazing supernatural feats to prove HE was God and that Aaron and Moses spoke for him. Yet people rebeled against Moses often. To punish the rebelous God killed by various means thousands of the very people he intended to “liberate”. Yet time and time again they rebeled. Are we any different today?

    In a totalitarian society, only through threats of death, torture, or inprisonment can the ruling powers control the people.

    Of all the “things” I know of. LOVE is the only thing I know of that is truely free. LOVE can not be demanded from someone, LOVE can not be forced upon someone, LOVE can only be recieved freely.

    God wants us to freely LOVE HIM. In order to do so we must let LOVE control us. Take a look at the fruits of the SPIRIT. Galatians 5:22,23 Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

    There also is no danger found in a society of people who demonstrate these characteristics. However the reality of life is that the flesh produces a different work. Galatians 5:19,20,21.

    We already see the results of a society ran by a religious power. Look to Iran and yes Saudi Arabia and other Islamic Nations.

  18. rokdude5 says:

    If all the “what-ifs” came to fruition, then I would say it certainly would be heaven. Have we reached our goal? Only if the rest of the world were to follow suit but I personally dont see that. Revelation does talk about times of tribulation.

    Even Jesus, Himself, couldnt persuade the Pharisees and the Saducees to align themselves with Him even after fulfilled prophocies, signs, and miracles He performed! How many of us just dont get the clue?

    For me, all the “what ifs” and goals wont be realized until after this world passes and we are with God in Heaven.

  19. poohpity says:

    I believe that I would achieve my individual goal by doing those things. It seems that the minute I set a goal for myself everything in the world seems to come against me. I then have to regroup and ask for the Lord’s help and determine to achieve it. I think with our relationship with God we do not try hard enough sometimes to act the way He has laid out for us to do because of self and the difficulty of the task. I do not care what anyone says it is hard to go against the world around me. Following Christ and His teaching isn’t for sissies. The difference of today and in Moses’s time is we have the help of the Holy Spirit but you still need lots of training and persistence to keep that focus. It is hard, very hard but the reward will be great even though sacrifice isn’t easy especially when when we have to give up wanting to do things our way. Is that the point you were trying to make because I am very interested in learning?

  20. SFDBWV says:

    poohpity, did I understand you to say in your earlier comments that your mother is sick?

  21. Mart De Haan says:

    Let me restate this post a different way. I know I frustrated some of you by asking so many ridiculously unrealistic questions. So here’s one question that captures what I was trying to do with the series of questions:

    If followers of Christ were all morally compliant people (externally speaking) who together controlled the national policy of our country, would we have fulfilled the mission of Christ?

  22. SFDBWV says:

    No, Mart, that isn’t our mission for Christ.

  23. Belma Connerley says:

    “IF” a poem by Rudyard Kipling is one I think would help for you and others to recall Jesus said ” Be ye perfect” Mature. Finish growing in grace and knowledge

  24. SFDBWV says:

    Sorry Mart, I had several interuptions at once while answering your new post.

    We cannot fulfill Christ’s mission. His great commission to us was to take the Gospel to all people everywhere. Through his teachings we are given an example as to how to live out our lives. In both love for our fellow man and obedience to God the Father. In being obedient to God we are expected to follow his rules of conduct as a people.

    In the spirit of living under the rules of conduct expected of us being Christian. We try to create a society that obeys God. For not doing so we give free reign to the enemy to make our society ungodly.

    It is our responsiblity to ourselves and to our children to not cede control of our society to the Evil forces against Christ, against God, against all the rules of conduct God demands of us as a people.

    Adam gave away control of planet Earth, we should not give away control of our little patch of it as well.

  25. Abate says:

    We are not expected to be perfect in this world but to have the objective to be so in all our words and actions. We need to have a reference point and that is Jesus. We are heading towards Jesus.

    Please note that we are not supposed to elect in every office a christian. I am recently reading an autobiography by Tony Dungy (Quiet Strength). He is a devoted christian but his criteria of selecting players or coaches is not necessarily a christian. He sees intergrity, passion and cause to serve. A christian, sadly, may not show this noble characters. I am greatly surprised to know in so called “conservative” radio and TV personalities lives some areas where even hard to expect from unbeliever. Their language is bad and their data is flawed and false. They are selective in identifying sins – for them, abortion is sin but not greediness or lies.

  26. Dang says:

    Evangelicals have not followed the commission that Christ has given to them. While Christ was on this earth, he healed the sick and helped the poor. He commisioned us to preach the GOSPEL (not anti-abortion, anti-gay) to the every tongue and nation. Evangelicals are like the Pharisees of old whom Jesus had always confronted them. Evangelicals will be the fulfillment of the “Beast out of the earth” of Revelation 13-11-17

  27. sitsathisfeet says:

    Hmmmn Let me see. First we start with morally compliant people, like Quakers, or Shakers, or Amish, or Mennonites, Mormons, or the Founding Fathers, Early Christians or evangelicals today perhaps ? You got me there. I don’t think you could assemble such a folk, and if you did we would still have the sin problem, and fallen world, fallen race. I think we are called to accept the Lord as our risen Savior to submit,yeild and obey to his way and will,(only possible through His and Holy Spirits enabling), and then we are called to walk in the light, be the salt and light of this world through Christ. We are also given the commission to go out in the world and disciple all nations (meaning all the people therein) For me I am not looking to this world or any of it’s inhabitants, governments or society to provide my hope, satisfaction, answers etc. Neither can I serve two masters, the world or Christ. May God grant me the grace to keep choosing the Way, the Truth and the Life each day. And to be able to tell people the reason for my hope.

  28. blowentw says:

    I would have to agree with those who say “no” to the last formulation of your “what if,” question, Mart. When Jesus was before Pilate he stated that his kingdom is not of this world. To be blunt, I think for those who are not called specifically to go into politics the concentration of evangelical efforts in that arena is a waste of time and effort. Paul used the soldier or athlete totally dedicated to a task to exemplify the kind of single-mindedness he felt was appropriate to the spreading of the news of salvation through Jesus Christ. And I dare say that Paul was not looking for a political solution.

    It has in fact been tried, I believe, in Zurich, Basel, Berne and other places. It failed in all of those places, and I see no reason to think we would be any different. Power still corrupts, and absolute power still corrupts absolutely. There is no political solution to a moral problem.

    Though with you, Mart, I would still wish that all we who claim the name of Christ were honest, generous and loving in all of our relationships, counting the things of the kingdom of greater worth than the things of this world.

  29. poohpity says:

    Yes SFDBWV,

    Over the last 6 weeks the Doc’s have found that she has Squamous cell cancer and it has spread. She has five masses all around her mid region. She has had to have 4 lung cavity drains of over 6 liters of fluid. I have not had to deal with this kind of thing before and am finding my emotions on a roller coaster. She is my bff. We are both trusting in the Lord but right now I wish He could hold me tight. Thank you for asking!!! That means a lot to me.

    I guess that is why some of my posts are more directed at what is really important in life cause when it comes down to it we simply pay attention to the dumbest stuff if you know what I mean?

  30. Mart De Haan says:

    Thanks to all of you for your patience and willingness to look at this from a number of different angles. I wrote this post initially with the concern that, from the days of the New Testament until now, those who are the least likely to accept the good news of “spiritual change” are those who are the most externally moral.

    From the first comment of BruceC on, many of you joined him in showing that your hope is not in political change as a way of fulfilling our spiritual mission.

    Yet the fact that “evangelicals” have become a significant, though minority, political factor, is reason for us to keep clarifying our distinct role and calling.

    Because the political process focuses on external moral issues, and because of the way battle lines are drawn in culture wars, it is possible for “followers of Christ” to become more concerned about public policy and “the loss of our country” than about the countless ways in which “the Gospel” and “kingdom of Christ” can bring forgiveness, peace, and reconciliation through voluntary acceptance of our Creator/King/Savior.

    I agree with Ted that the gospel of Christ includes not only what he did for us on his cross, but all of the good that he wants to do in and through those who accept him as Savior and Messiah.

    Seems to me that, to the extent that our social influence is an evidence of our internal voluntary reliance upon the grace of Christ, our ability to be salt and light will support our mission rather than replace it.

    I want to stand most heartily with those who have emphasized that the greatest good we can do is in our individual and collective acts of kindness, mercy, and justice– because of the generosity we have found in Jesus– and because nothing is more important to us than seeing others discover all that Christ wants to do for and through their voluntary acceptance of him, now and forever.

    And poohpity, I know that many of us will be thinking of and praying for you and your mom in this difficult time…

  31. SFDBWV says:

    poohpity, It’s early Sunday morning here. I am so very saddened for your mother’s and your struggle. I wish I had the words to make you feel better. But all I can offer you are my heartfelt tears and prayers.

    Though I know you know there is a time coming when all sickness and pain will be wiped away, right now you hurt and your heart is breaking. You do not weep alone dear sister. We weep with you and to quote the shortest verse in the Bible, “Jesus wept.”

  32. daisymarygoldr says:

    Although the exclusive nature of this topic does not permit me to participate… just wanted to stop by and let poohpity know that your mother is being prayed for… Psalm 119:28…

  33. mbsmith91 says:

    Dang Says – He commisioned us to preach the GOSPEL (not anti-abortion, anti-gay)………… my Bible tells me to be anti-abortion and recognize homosexual activity as wrong. How can I support a candidate or political party that espouses either? Politics and religion are intertwined, church-state separation is impossible. If we love Him, we are to keep His commandments. Hate the sin but love the sinner.

  34. poohpity says:

    Thank you guys for the support it means so very much to me. My son held me last night. So the Lord provided some arms, God is so wonderful and so are you guys. Again thank you!!!!

  35. zulu143 says:

    First I want to add my voice to those that are praying for poohpity and your mother.

    Mr De Haan, this topic touches on something that I have had a special sensitivity for for a long time. I feel that the tone and focus of the Evangelical political movement has done much more harm than good with respect to our primary mission, as Christians, of drawing all men to Christ. The attempt to force people (thru the government) to comply with God’s Laws externally without having the internal work of conversion that is the foundation of our faith is doomed and also contrary to the founding fathers wishes.

    Let me explain (and perhaps answer mbsmith91). A lot of us like to think of this country as a Christian nation and, in fact, the vast majority of us do identify with the Christian faith, however, the founding fathers of this country, in their great wisdom, had the intent to give people the right to express their faith, or not, without any coercion from the government to prevent the sort of religious tyranny that existed in England at the time.

    As an example, imagine a hypothetical scenario where most of the people in this country were Muslims and they passed laws reflecting Islamic law (e.g. we would all have to face Mecca five times a day and pray). We, as Christians, would be outraged but because we would be in the minority we could do nothing about it. Well, the founding fathers set up a system of separation of church and state so that no religious group would be able to impose it’s will in this way.

    I think our mission as Christians is to reach out to the lost individually and face to face, not thru governmental laws.

  36. desert rose says:

    No, because we are sinners it could never be possible. We are saved by grace. It would be nice however, if we all set our goals to be more Christ-like so we would be identified as Christians by others. The great commandment is to love one another. I understood what you were getting at Mart, you sure sparked a lot of response. I hope every one reading the blog will support Poohpity’s Mom in prayer.

  37. CarrieP says:

    Re: Poohpity

    Have known the loss of a mother. Will be praying for you and your mother.

  38. Another Child says:

    I totally agree with geclayton above on the disappointment of Church leaders and politics.

    Thank you Mart for putting these questions out there so that we can actually think and be convicted if applicable about the actions that we take.

    The original sin of Adam and Eve prevents the ‘what ifs’ right now. If that was the case then we would not have needed Jesus to die for our sins because we would be perfect. The what if scenario has been promised to us in Revalations 21 and 22 after Christ comes back. In the mean time we are to fulfill the Great Commission to go out and spread the word because Jesus came for the lost. The lost does not just include United States but the world – atheists, Muslims, Church goers and so forth.

  39. Another Child says:

    mbsmith91’s says “my Bible tells me to be anti-abortion and recognize homosexual activity as wrong. How can I support a candidate or political party that espouses either? Politics and religion are intertwined, church-state separation is impossible. If we love Him, we are to keep His commandments. Hate the sin but love the sinner.”

    I agree that the Bible speaks agains abortion and homosexuality. My question is how do you feel about candidates that do not reach out to the poor, ignore the unfairly treated and the overlooked in society, the candidates that fight to keep legislation for guns that kill, death penality and other social issues or do you think those are not equally as important as abortion and homosexuality? Who determines that one candidate or party is more Christian than the other when we clearly do not have the ‘what if’ scenarion that Mart has presented above?

  40. TommyO says:

    I was reading all this for the first time and realize what I’ve been missing. It’s great! Thank you.
    Specifically, I noted the Nov 8 comment by “drkennyg” under the Evangelical subject question. As I read it, it sounded like I wrote it – not the style, but the content – same issues, same philosophy, same problems. As I finished that particular site, I began to wonder if you had a site that discussed what I call, “the Paul/Grace problem.” Sure enough, there it was; a long discourse about Paul and where he really stands with respect to all of our Christian techings and beliefs.
    My wife and I must definitely go back and read that, together. We have just recently left a church (a long story), and have been searching for another. During our quest, a friend suggested a local church called “Grace Alive.” We didn’t know going in, but we were soon very concerned about the teaching. Apparently Paul is for the Gentiles, and Jesus is for the Jews. Is was almost that simple and that abrupt. We hurried away somewhat concerned, but now we are seeing more churches in the area who are “Grace” based, not “Kingdom” based. It’s so simple: Jesus stands for the Kingdom; Paul stands for Grace. This is truly scary if it’s true, and that’s what people have apparently turned to.
    We’re going to keep reading, but we have our doubts.

  41. Jing says:

    I would have to say after reading these blogs for some time now, I am left a little confused by the intent of these opinions. Do you really think I’m legalistic for opposing abortion and voting against the candidate that supports it…let’s say it “Obama” .. Do you really think I’m legalistic for voting against the endorsements of Rosie Odonell and Ellen DeGeneres because of the “special support of the gay commnunity”? Of course the agenda of helping the poor and needy is important. That is our commission as Christians. Does the democrat platform support the direction you want the country to go? If we can’t vote for those that uphold our Christian values, the values that our forefathers founded the country, then what in the world are we doing? What I am reading here is not addressing the issue. It’s plain as day. Those of us “Evangelicals” representing the republican party aren’t writing posts here trying to justify our vote for Obama, because we voted our conscience, and we didn’t put our politics ahead of our salvation. Sorry, if I rattled some cages, but where I come from we tell it like it is. By the way, all the scripture in these posts are relevant and appropriate. “Am I the enemy because I tell you the truth.”

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