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What if…in Heaven?

Because the book of Revelation foresees the merging of heaven and earth in ways that will be far better than we have ever known…

What if– heaven turns out to be far more like this world than we expected, but far beyond what we have ever imagined?

What if…we are headed for a heaven on earth that–in the presence of Christ– is full of challenge, excitement, danger, work, and rest? What if we get a chance to honor our Lord by learning from our mistakes, from one another, and from others who know more than ourselves?

What if the kingdom of heaven allows us to experience personal need, and even crises of immeasurable proportions? What if heaven has all of this and more… everything– but sin, death, and all of their relatives?

What if– in the presence and goodness of our ultimate Friend and Lord, we have such a heightened sense of how unthinkable it would be to not trust him that sin has no chance of ever coming between us again?

What if—in the age to come– we have such an overwhelming, constant sense of gratitude to God that all of our problems and needs are motivated by our desire to find new, creative ways to honor our God?

Imagine helping one another forever to find new ways of expressing our ability to delight in and show our gratitude to the One who died for us?

Yes, I know this is all speculation—except for one underlying assumption. For those in Christ heaven is going to be far better than anything we ever imagined.

Am reminded of the Apostle Paul who writes about a vision of heaven where he heard things he was not allowed to talk about (2Cor 12:4), and wrote,

“I’m torn between two desires: Sometimes I want to live, and sometimes I long to go and be with Christ. That would be far better for me, but it is better for you that I live. I am convinced of this, so I will continue with you so that you will grow and experience the joy of your faith (Philip 1:23-25, NLT)”…

Don’t know about you, but I can relate to Paul’s mixed feelings. Seems that what Christ has already done for us is our best reason for wanting to leave– to be with him… and that knowing how much he loves others is our best reason for wanting to stay… for the good of others…


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127 Responses to “What if…in Heaven?”

  1. bubbles says:

    “What if in the presence and goodness of our ultimate friend and Lord, we have such a heightened sense of how unthinkable it would be to not trust him that sin has not chance of ever coming between us again?”

    Mart, I have a question, and please excuse my ignorance.
    Won’t we, at this time, have been given our new bodies? Maybe I’ve thought incorrectly. I have always thought we wouldn’t be able to sin in our new bodies. Have I been wrong in thinking this? That is one thing I’ve been looking forward to so much–to be rid of sinning.

    Selfishly, I hope that the pace of day to day life is slower. . :)

  2. scout1 says:

    Howdy!

    Very interesting “what if’s”!

    I also wonder if we will be able to sin when we get to heaven. I’m sure that the Lord still would not want us to be “robots”. But if we still have our free will would we sin?? I think that “if” we did sin in heaven the payment that Jesus made was to cover all sin past, present and future. But, since we are doing “what if’s”, I tend to lean toward a no sin Heaven because that will be our home WITH God and He cannot be around sin at all. God is pure in Him is no darkness at all. That’s why He could not even look at Jesus as He took on our sin at the cross.

    As a Christian, I think that the learning and trusting that we are doing here is training for living in Heaven with Him. Any rewards we get are also linked to the things that happen in this life. We may be shocked at the deeds that get burned up in the test of fire. So, I am excited to see how God, in all His most wonderful wisdom, is going to set up Heaven. To me, I can see all kinds of issues. How could He possibly get all these “what if’s” set up just right! But, that’s why God is in charge. What a surprise so many things will be! A citizen of Heaven. Our future awaits!

  3. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Hi Mart, What another wonderful topic!

    I have always had a feeling that “Heaven” on the New Earth would be much more physical than we think.
    Although we are and will still be spiritual beings, God has given us physical bodies, as indeed He has taken on Hiself physical form.
    He created us with drive and ambition etc. and I am sure there will be a place for this and jobs to do in the new order of things.
    As for sin? There has already been sin in heaven! Sin is rebelion against God and one third of the angels rebeled against God and followed their master satan a very long time ago. So in my opinion, yes it must be possible to sin in heaven, BUT and it is a great BUT, God has redeemed us and bought us with a price, so that sin can no longer harm us or have power over us ever again.
    So there will be no sin in the New Heaven and Earth as there will also be no darkness. Only the light and love of God will abound there.
    Not only did Jesus redeem us but He redeemed the whole of creation, Heaven and Earth rejoice!!
    Bob

  4. mckrum55 says:

    Thank you, thank you, thank you for justifying my belief that Heaven will be more than sitting around on clouds strumming harps. I have believed such as you suggest since I read “No Man in Eden” back in the ’70’s. My fellow Christians scoff at my ideas; they obviously have no immagination. It’s so much easier to put God in a box. Pity. Keep stretching.

  5. Mart De Haan says:

    Bubbles, I agree with you. Am sorry if I seemed to leave that open. Didn’t mean to. Was trying to close that door when I said,

    “What if heaven has all of this and more… everything– but sin, death, and all of their relatives?

  6. Ted M. Gossard says:

    Amen, Mart. So very well expressed! Yes, I think that is what “heaven” as in the new heaven and earth through the resurrection and new creaion fulfilled in Jesus- yes, that is something like it will be like. And I haven’t quite heard it expressed that way. So thanks!!

  7. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I’ve been thinking while at work, now at home sitting in the garden and enjoying the spring sunshine, that sin actually originated in heaven. God did not create sin but He created creatures that could.
    God made His angels to serve Him and later us, but they obviously had free will or they, along with satan, could not have rebeled and held God to ransom. God baneshed satan and his helpers to Earth. I often wonder if that war caused devastation on the Earth, that is why it was without form and void when God went to create Man and explains the ancient age of the world. (That is a subject for another time Mart)
    Anyway God gave man dominion over the Earth and, although satan was already here, he had no power until Man disobeyed God and took from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God created a place for man to live in harmony with Himself, the garden of Eden, but Man rebelled against God and let the earth be corrupted by satans power.
    That I am sure is why satan is locked up and has to be let loose after 1000 years of peace because Man must be tempted one last time. After that satan is destroyed in the pit of fire forever.
    So there is no more sin! God has quelled the original rebelion and delt with sin forever.
    Like I said earlier, All creation stands on tiptoe and is waiting to see the Sons of Man come into their own.
    Bob

  8. Linda-in-Alma says:

    The what-if’s you describe as negative (personal crises, potential for sin, etc.) are placing earthly limitations on a place of immeasurable power and perfection…indescribable…God’s domain. The Price was paid here on earth by Jesus…what would be the purpose of repeating earth’s dilemmas in heaven?

    We will receive rewards in heaven for the way we led our lives here on earth. I believe that means not only the physical accomplishments but our states of mind, beliefs, and spiritual maturity when die. Jesus described heaven as paradise as he hung on the cross. What if our individual expectations of heaven (including doubts and limitations of it) dictate exactly what we receive once we’re there….dictate exactly how close we will be able to sit next to God and Jesus Christ?

  9. Puddleglum says:

    I would like to suggest an amazing read on this subject.
    HEAVEN YOUR REAL HOME, by Joni Eareckson Tada.
    It will as they say,”blow your mind”

    Puddle

  10. SFDBWV says:

    Remembering that there are several different Heavens. Each being for their own purposes. John being allowed to see into them as well as Paul.

    Also remembering that we were made in the immage of God.

    That there are trees and water and streets and a walled city. Gold and all the valuable precious metals and gems.

    Everything in this existance throughout all of creation exists in the Heavenly realm. The difference being sin will not be present, in any form.

    The 1000 year reign of Christ on Earth is a different matter. Sin will be held at bay, during that 1000 years, but be allowed to once again tempt the children of men.

    Then as Revelation states, sin and all it’s allies are foreven thrown into that eternal lake of fire…eternal…forever….

    Who knows what wonderful adventures God has in store for the inhabitants of Heaven. Yes to all who believe there is work to be done there and work perfectly done. That we are grown and prepared here and now for the work to be done, both here as well as there.

    We have a little foretaste of heaven whereas we look at the wonders and beauty of nature, as we experiance happy and pleasent things here. However they are only a shadow of the reality of their original selves found in Heaven.

    Steve

  11. Linda-in-Alma says:

    Agree! Our minds can barely (if that) scratch the surface of what is in store. I hope there’s a heavenly library because I can’t wait to spend eternity learning about the realms of our new existence and pathways to greater understanding.

    Linda

  12. SFDBWV says:

    Not wanting to bring to the table any suggestion of arguement. However I am thinking about the *What If* concept.

    The Gnostic’s as I understand them, wrote a great deal of God and His plans as well as Heaven and Earth, using what appears as a *What If* human approach to using mans imagination concerning theology. Instead of using the accepted teachings of what we know from our scripture and earliest teachers.

    I have quite a vivid imagination and I can create in my mind many thoughts about Heaven.

    I am reminded of the Islamic belief that martyrs are given special status and some large number of virgins to attend to their carnal delights….

    I have also read that the Mormon faith believes that accepted husbands and wives are given entire worlds to repopulate and govern over as king and queen …

    I have also seen here on planet earth, cults that believe a wide range of *What Ifs*. Turning their what ifs into desires and hopes…Eliminating Jesus of Nazareth and His place in it all.

    Many of the Native American belief systems have created a heavenly image, out of developing a perfect *What If* into an accepted religion, without the person of Jesus of Nazareth…

    Everything that exists, was created by and through Him (John 1:1,2,3) Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ. The son of God and the second part of the God head. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

    Just some morning thoughts on the subject.

    Steve

  13. Lively says:

    I could be wrong about this, but didn’t Satan sin in Heaven? Wasn’t that the reason he was kicked out? Mulling over the rest of the posts :-)

  14. SFDBWV says:

    Yes Stacy, we are told that Satan rebelled against God, while a high ranking Angel in Heaven.

    To compound the matter, we read in Job that long afterward, Satan was still in heaven and speaking with God. Accusing God of pampering Job.

    We read again in Revelation that during the period we know of as the Great Tribulation, that there is then war in Heaven and not until then is Satan cast down to the earth…Rev 12…

    So not until the last events of tribulation is Satan evicted from Heaven.

    But there is no mention of sin in the New Earth and New Heaven, as described in Revelation.

    Steve

  15. joice says:

    hi everyone!My first time here. When I was still a child and honestly up to now as an adult…I do have lots of curiosities and questions about heaven…But I was checked one time as I was having these train of thoughts in my mind and came up w/this thought…If God won’t be there in heaven, I won’t have any reason at all to go there. From that time on, I resolved to myself that I’m going to heaven because I want to be w/ my God and live in holiness.

  16. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Steve,
    Thanks for mentioning the different heavens mentioned in scripture. I believe there are three altogether.
    The Sky, The Stars, and then the third heaven where God is.
    I am not sure when Revelation talks about a new heaven and earth as to whether that includes the so called third heaven.
    I do know that there is more to all this than we can possibly imagine at the moment and all these “what ifs” are difficult to comprehend.
    As you say most man made religions are full of our perfected “what ifs” and have no place for Jesus of Nazareth.
    Jesus is the centre of this universe/creation and will be the centre of the next New Creation.
    We are already called a New Creation, in Him, so we are already a part of this New Heaven and Earth.
    God has spent the last 6,000 years or so giving us a glimpes of what is to come and the reality is going to be mind blowingly amazing.
    AS you also said the 1000 year reign is a special time when God rests with His creation and rules man as was first intended, but the best comes after that when evil and sin are completly destroyed.
    While eternity will be sismilar to here, this is just a poor reflection of what to expect, One thing I am sure of, there will be no more sin and death and every experience will be good.
    Bob

  17. joice says:

    Wow!thanks for giving us the summary Bob…yup…I agree w/you regarding the different heavens…The third heaven I believed is where all the ranks will be gathered for the “awarding”ceremony and from there live w/God and worship Him for eternity.

  18. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Steve,
    Again I have learned something here.
    I always thought satan was cast out of heaven long ago and that the passage in revelation was just a reference to that event.
    I never gave thought that this may be refering to a future event.
    I will have to study this as it changes alot of my current thinking.
    Thank God that it is not important to salvation and what Jesus has done for us.
    I have said before, there is truth and Absolute Truth and Jesus my Saviour and His Sacrifice, Death and Resurection are Absolute Truth. satan’s demise, although important is mere information for us to think about.

  19. rokdude5 says:

    I always wonder if there would be opportunities to visit with my folks and friends….if there are going to be long lines to sit and visit with Paul, Peter, Noah, Jeremiah, Elijah, Moses, the poor lady who gave her last two pennies to God, etc, etc.

    To me it would be quite heavenly if I could.

  20. Pastor_K says:

    I truly do believe that heaven will come down and that there will be a new earth where we will spend an eternity with God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There will be no sin because we will be changed and will become like the Son, perfect and holy. I think it will be like the garden of Eden where we will have the run of the place and will be able to eat from all the trees. We will share an intimate relationship with all thre forms of God and will know inconceivable joy.

  21. Lively says:

    To be honest, I’ve never really thought of this before. My mind has touched on it, but it was one of those things that is beyond my understanding, so I simply set it aside.

    I’ll be mainly reading and asking questions on this entry…

    From my human perspective, I think there will be things that I miss, mainly the bonds and ties to my family, especially my husband and children, of people who I loved but didn’t make the right choice and aren’t in Heaven – this is where I trip. I can only assume that I won’t miss them, because that doesn’t mesh with what my notion is about Heaven.

    I get tangled in sadness already missing what I won’t miss, but know I’ll miss – does that make any sense at all to anyone?

  22. phpatato says:

    Could it be on new earth, it will be much like this one but with the sky, water, grass, leaves in much clearer, crisper, more vivid colours? That all the precious metals and gems – polished, gleaming and sparkling – will be incorporated and inlayed into the landscape (streets paved in gold). That the animals will be contently grazing beside each other with the lion lying beside the lamb…

    That Rokdude, we will not only be happily reunited with our family and friends but also with the pets that we were entrusted to care for (I am thinking of Rainbow Bridge).

    That we will be able to use our God-given gift, whether that is the gift of music, the gift of working with our hands, the gift of teaching or the gift of…., to continue to glorify God. That we will be assigned tasks but they will be tasks that each individual loves doing (as an animal lover I would hope mine would be to take care of the animals, my sister says she would love to do the gardening lol).

    Pastor_K…Inconceivable joy…no more sorrow, no more tears, no more sickness, NO MORE SIN!

    A chorus springs to mind….

    I’ve got a mansion, just over the hilltop,
    in that bright land where, we’ll never grow old,
    and someday yonder, we will never more wander,
    but walk those streets that are pure as gold.

    Thank you Lord Jesus for knowing me before I knew you!!!! wow I’m tearing up at the thought of all this…… Sorry if I rambled.

  23. willbe says:

    I started thinking more about heaven after reading Randy Alcorn’s book, HEAVEN!
    For me it hard to even imagine an existence without sin, and I don’t think that anyone in this world can imagine it. So thank the Lord of our Salvation, that His ways are higher than our ways, and His thoughts higher than our thoughts!
    But what fun it is to imagine what it will be like! To delight in that must make God smile!

  24. baberuth27 says:

    One thought that always occurs to me is that earth may be infinite in its size and scope, with an endless number of opportunities to learn, grow in trust, explore and praise God for his incredible creativity and diversity. I’m confident we will never, ever be bored in the New Heaven and New Earth. We will have all the time? (probably a bad word), all of eternity to accomplish every good thing God has for us. And all the space in which to do it. No need for border conflicts or missed deadlines! We will absolutely have everything that is necessary in order to please God and each other. I can hardly wait.

  25. poohpity says:

    It seems that soon after Paul was given the glimpse of what is beyond this earth that the thorn in flesh was given so that he would not boast of that revelation that he was given not even to speak of. In 2 Corinthians 4 Paul speaks of the inexpressible joy that will be ours in heaven.

    In Revelation, John, speaks of, with an imagery we can relate to of heaven. The tree that we were once banished from “Tree of Life” will be there that at that time we will be permitted to eat from in the “New Earth”. It seems that with our finite minds we try and describe the indescribable. Jesus spoke in parables so that we may understand and the use by Paul, John and others of things we can touch to describe heaven, are we taking to literally?

    Do any of you while you are in the presence of God while praying or reading His word, feel overcome with a sense of well being and inexpressible joy that to me is what heaven will be like. I do not feel concern about what the surroundings will be but the fact that I will be in the presence of God and that is why I want temporarily to stay here so that other people will open their lives up to experience heaven here on earth for now then desire to experience that for eternity.

    Have you ever thought, “is there more of God I can have for now?” to see what it may be like in heaven or am I to busy “doing” to want more of Him?

  26. xrgarza says:

    When I was younger, I was taught to believe that all we were going to do in heaven was worship God. By the same token I was taught that worshiping God was singing praises and raising our hands.

    Suddenly simply singing and raising our hands for eternity didn’t seem like a joyous event.

    When I hear of a new heaven and a new earth along with our new bodies, I have a feeling that he has a plan for us to live our lives like it was initially planned, I find it interesting that the Bible say’s that men and women will not partake in marriage.

    So sin, death, and the only solution for men and women to get along is to remain single. Wow! Imagine that.

    I have a weird way of looking at things that bring humor to me, I find it at times quite easy to read deeper into scripture and find things that are not preached behind the pulpit. For whatever reason whether it be ignorance on my part, or perhaps clergy doesn’t want to start a panic.

    I’m the guy that when asked if I believe in UFO’s, I simply refer to scripture when the Lord is talking about the lost sheep. Who is he referring to? Well each one of us individually right? And is it also possible that the 99 other sheep in the parable are simply the religious that don’t need to be found? Or could it be at whole larger spectrum? Like the lost sheep being planet earth, as we know it and the 99 other sheep could be 99 other universes out there.

    The calculations that I used for this silly theory was a simple math calculation. Since God has been around forever, and the start of man since Adam has only been approximately 7,000 years, is this really all that he has to show for? It is very possible that God has so much more to share with us and we don’t have a clue.

    Perhaps God has a plan for us to continue to excel in ways that will only make us supreme beings, like the UFO’s that so many talk about.

    We don’t have a clue, simply vivid imaginations.

    Xavier

  27. janna says:

    I happened on this site and have found all comments so interesting. I love seeing what others think about Heaven.I myself am a strong believer. I read constantly about it. I know we will all be united. How vast is the Love of Christ. It is so hard to imagine.

  28. ellensusan says:

    As to the previous note:
    Here is a tip to finding the Heaven series in chronological order so you do not miss anything:
    click on the Broadcast archives above the video, and you will see the dates in order that the videos are posted.
    Enjoy !!

  29. xrgarza says:

    ellensusan,

    I’m trying to read your instructions here and I’m a little lost.

    “click on the Broadcast archives above the video” huh? I was not able to find this. I’m not as smart as I look.:)

    Xavier

  30. firstbehonest says:

    I believe that the blink of an eye that we spend on this earth is intended to be a training and testing opportunity. We each are confronted with the question of “Who is Jesus to ME?” We each have the right to choose, and thus the responsibility to choose the answer, and after choosing to trust Him, or not. What we do after that is merely to learn about “Who am I in Christ?” In my own life, I have found that the temptation to sin is not so much concerned with satan, as it is my selfish nature to want my own way. When we are in heaven, and in God’s presence, even though we will be like Jesus, I suspect that our God-given free will could still allow us to choose our own will over Gods. Please keep in mind that even our Lord who knew no sin, was daily tempted in every area that is common to man, and part of that was to choose His own will over that of the Father’s. I do believe that the same relationship with the Father that Jesus experienced will be ours as well, and I trust that knowing the loving Father will be enough to stop me from some of the stupid choices I occasionally make on earth as I continue to learn from my mistakes.

  31. firstbehonest says:

    As far as what heaven will offer: Our God is one of endless diversity, from microscopic miracles, to a universe that exceeds measurement. I look forward to endless discovery and exploration unshackled by the limitations of our current finite bodies. The current reverence we express when we see that spectacular sunrise, or try to count the stars at night, will be multiplied beyond our current ability to comprehend when we explore the new heaven and new earth. God will put the awe back into awesome. Revelation speaks of multiple heavens, and the SEVEN spirits of God (Rev. 4:5), so we have much left to learn about our creator. I am grateful we will have all eternity to discover Who God is!

  32. poohpity says:

    I know that the mormons speak of different heavens that one can earn they way to and Paul spoke of the third heaven where God is but never quite understood the different heavens thing.

  33. pegramsdell says:

    Pooh, I know what you are talking about. That peace and joy we feel when we are in His presence. There is nothing like it. Thank you for describing it so well. :)

  34. MZ PATTI says:

    WHAT A WONDERFUL ARTICLE…IT SHOWS ME THAT YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT. THERE ARE TIMES WHILE IN PRAYER OR JUST READING THE WORD THAT HE SHOWS ME GLIMPSES OF THE OTHER
    SIDE AND YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT IS JUST AS THE SCRIPTURE DESCRIBES. I’VE QUIT TRYING TO DESCRIBE IT TO ANYONE BECAUSE THEY LOOK AT ME LIKE I DON’T KNOW WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT OR IN “DISBELIEF”. IT DOESN’T MATTER AS LONG AS I KNOW WHAT I’VE SEEN. THE LORD HAS SHOWN ME THAT THEY DIDN’T BELIEVE JESUS OR THE APPOSTLES OR THE PROPHETS EITHER BUT THEY KEPT SHARING THE WORD AND THAT’S ALL OUR GOD WANTS US TO DO. WE’RE HERE TO BE AS SHEPHERDS TO HELP BRING HIS LOST SHEEP HOME. KEEP FEEDING US MART…WE BELIEVERS ARE LISTENING TO YOU AND KNOW IT IS A PRIVILEGE TO READ WHAT YOU WRITE…THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU.

  35. judyjean says:

    I’d never given a lot of thought to heaven except the comfortable thought of knowing it waits for me. On the few occasions when I did think about it, I wondered what we would be doing for eternity. Your insights are fascinating! Thank you.

  36. saled says:

    Challenge? Excitement? Danger? Work? Rest? Suddenly heaven seems so much more interesting (except for the danger. I’m looking for relief from my current worry-wart existence.) I’m inspired by the many new thoughts on heaven that people have shared here. My hope is that in heaven we will no longer be limited by time, or space, but would that mean that time and space would no longer exist?

    Like Xavier, I never thought of singing praises and raising of hands for eternity all that exciting. And I wondered about a god that desired to be worshiped. But then I heard someone say that worship is how God gives himself to us, and I see that. I DO desire to worship, and the God of Jesus is the only one worthy of worship. I’m sure heaven will be full of worship.

  37. phpatato says:

    Well like Xavier, I went searching for the Heaven series the Ellensusan was referring to. I didn’t find it/couldn’t understand it. Please Ellen (if I may call you that) if you could clarify what you meant, that would be great.

    But in my search, I came across and I have just read the booklet “Our Eternal Home” written by Richard W. De Haan..you wouldn’t know him by chance would you Mart?? ;-) lol I found it by accessing RBC – Discovery Series Booklets – and is something truly worth checking out.

    In reference to the heavens that Steve and Bob in England were talking about, I find it interesting that in the booklet, Mr. De Haan speaks of our present solar system which will…. “burst into flames with such an intense heat that even the elements that make up matter will be dissolved. The sun, the moon, the planets and the distant stars will all be engulfed in flame”.

    According to Peter’s prophecy in 2 Peter 3:10…”the heavenS (plural) will pass away with a great noise…”

    Again I have learned something that I have read many times before but it didn’t “sink in” until now. I love this school!

  38. SFDBWV says:

    Bob,(rdrcomp)I also have read and even questioned Dean about the New Earth. Wonders of Creation is a wonderful place to rest a bit in while thumbing through RBC’s web pages.

    Revelation 21 starts off by saying John saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away: and there was no more sea.

    2 Peter:3 verses 10 through 13, speak of the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shal melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up…

    :13 “Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dweleth righteousness.

    Newly created Earth, or remodeled one? Which is it?

    Revelation 22 speaks of there being no more curse, as spoken in Rev 21 there is no night there or no need for the sun, for the Lord God gives light…

    Anyone has to love what Rev 21:4 says…”And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be anymore pain: For the former things are passed away.”

    Matthew, Glenna and I look foreward with great anticipation to this coming promise from the one we have put all our hopes and trust upon, Jesus the Christ.

    Steve

  39. SFDBWV says:

    Pat, looks like we were making the same quote at the same time….wonder if the Holy Spirit is at work?…He did afterall write the Book.

    Steve

  40. SFDBWV says:

    Bob, Thanks, When I ask Dean about this subject he put forth an excellent explanation.

    I have often thought how *unfair* it seemed that all of creation had to share in the curse that man brought on himself and all he touches.

    We ourselves will be resurected with new bodies. Different from the old ones, but from the old ones. Eternal without the curse upon them. We became a new creature when we accepted Christ. Yet,we will be transformed at the resurection, not recreated. as in the creation of all things…When all things were created out of nothing.

    Am wondering if this same type of *new* is what is implied in the new earth new heaven concept.

    Can only agree with you that whatever lay ahead for we believers, is better than we could ever imagine ourselves.

  41. SFDBWV says:

    Bob, I guess I was finished, as my comments just posted themselves without any command from me????

    Steve

  42. JiL says:

    Great discussion. But I am trying to figure out if it is possible to have “danger” without the possibility of injury or death?

  43. mareed1 says:

    I loved the response from “first be honest”. I can relate to continually learning from our mistakes! But, you meant that Christ was tempted daily to put his will above the Father’s, right? It kind of sounded like you were saying he did choose to do this!?

    MY what-ifs tend to lead me to think in terms of our resurrected bodies being on an equal with Christ’s. He chose to be in one place, then another and like Phillip in Acts…He’s there! Wherever, whenever, with whoever, because we will not be limited by time, space or the physical realm as we know it, if we can think it, it will be instantaneous. What if? Humorously serious, I think I had better practice controlling my thoughts.
    ;-D

    What if?… Jesus also enjoys food, friendship, and cooking over an open fire?! ;-)(the beach scene on Galilee)…he likes being touched and feeling loved?! …He can experience the disappointment of the opposite of those, as well?!

    I have always viewed the millenial kingdom as something completely different than our eternal home; more temporary. The thousand year reign of Christ seems to me to be a “completion” age on this planet. Adam and Eve began the age of innocence (until corrupted by disobedience)and lived unaging and reproducing for close to a millenium.

    What if… it’s possible that after the tribulation and the final Armageddon, that there is not much of humanity left? That possibly the remnant of humanity will be given an opportunity to once again be responsible for repopulating and replenishing a severely damaged planet while under the watchful eye of our triune Father via Christ? Only this time without the innocence, because they will have seen the devastation brought about by “living like the devil” and since he will be chained by Michael prior to this age, they will not have to contend with or be accused by him for an entire millenium. What if it’s a time in which they will experience the goodness of living under Christ’s rule?

    What if the resurrected church (Christ’s bride) loves always being in attendance to Him and serving Him, for paying her bride price, prooving and perfecting their love for one another and making peace between her and his Father? Not only that, but for going to prepare this very special place for her?

    What if… once we are perfectly united with Him, first spiritually and then in our new bodies, our home will always be with Him…where He goes, we go?! …We will be one mind, one body, but still individual and will participate in reigning with Him after the first death/resurrection?!(Armageddon)…We’re able to judge the nations with His authority and the mind of Christ, His thoughts, our thoughts? (we should be learning to do this while we live our life in this time frame, right? Have the mind of Christ?)

    But, doesn’t scripture prophecy say that “if Egypt at that time will not worship Him, they will receive no rain” or something like that (help me out here someone)? Which seems to imply that we will be here with people who are not part of the kingdom and who have never died from the previous age (people who bemoan the loss of “Babylon”?), else who would we be judging if no one survived?

    Is it possible that Adam and Eve also lived on this planet with other humans? The name Adam means “mankind”, correct? But, that they lived in a paradise named Garden of Eden, created for them especially by God? (another What-if topic for some other time)

    Scripture also speaks of people who will die in infancy during the millenium (if you can imagine infancy being a person who is 100 years old or less) because they make the wrong choices and are rebellious. Then at the end of this age, Satan will go out to deceive and lead to battle a human race (a mighty host, numerous as the sand…earth repopulated?)that will be utterly destroyed by fire from God in heaven.

    All evil, rebellion, the unacccepting, the cowards who turn back from their faith will be cast into the Lake of fire prepared for Satan and his angels and where Hell and it’s inhabitants will also be thrown. This is called the second death, resurrection , and judgement.

    Scripture says the sky (first heaven) and earth as we know it, disappear and will no longer exist, and our new eternal home will appear in its place. All memory of this time will be erased; no death, no sorrow, no crying or pain, no day or night or sickness. Beauty beyond anything imaginable will be the norm. For what else, could THE Creator do?

    WHAT IF?… since we are no longer bound by any of these earthly limitations, we have a whole extrodinary universe created by our God, for our God’s pleasure, all in which to explore with Christ and serve our God and sing His praises?? Scripture says He knows each star by name and calls them out. Maybe one has my new name on it, reserved just for my unique gifts, (as someone mentioned earlier) and created by all the unique learning experiences of this life as God has molded and made me into the likeness of His son! That would be exceptional!
    This is my what-if!

  44. bubbles says:

    Mart, I’m sorry for misunderstanding your discussion topic. It was late when I read it, and had a huge dose of Ny-Quil in my system. I thoroughly enjoy your thoughts. Thanks for clairfying.

  45. phpatato says:

    Praying and hoping that you get a solid and refreshing night’s sleep Bubbles. I hope you start to feel better real soon!

  46. MZ PATTI says:

    HERES A THOUGHT AND A REAL LESSON THAT THE LORD SHOWED ME MANY YEARS AGO…AND IT WORKS…BUT MANY PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF IT BECAUSE IT’S SO POWERFUL. IF YOU WILL TAKE TIME TO REALLY HUG SOMEONE LONG ENOUGH TO BREATHE TOGETHER UNTIL BOTH OF YOUR BRETHING COMES INTO SINC…YOU ALMOST QUIT BREATHING…YOU CAN FEEL THE HOLY SPIRIT PASS BETWEEN YOU BOTH…IN THAT MOMENT YOU MAY EXPERIENCE AND SEE HEAVEN…IT DOESN’T LAST LONG…SO ENJOY AND APPRECIATE IT FOR THE MOMENT…IT MAKES IT EVEN EASIER TO
    UNDERSTAND MART’S ARTICLE. PRAISE THE LORD AND THANK HIM FOR
    THE EXPERIENCE. GOD BLESS YOU ALL. NOW THINK HOW POWERFUL IT WOULD BE TO REACH TO HUG THE LORD…IT TAKES OUR BREATH AWAY.

  47. Craig Chilton says:

    Hi, Mart —

    You wrote: “What if…we are headed for a heaven on earth that –- in the presence of Christ –- is full of challenge, excitement, danger, work, and rest?”

    To which I must ask, WHAT “danger?” How can an
    indestructible and eternal body ever be endangered by
    anything?

  48. Godmakesmeable says:

    Luke 17:20 says:
    (Living Bible)”The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within[b] you.

  49. Godmakesmeable says:

    We have Christ in us NOW.
    Now is eternity just like tomorrow is and when we die.

  50. Kerwin Cockrell says:

    The what if stirs some thought; What if I by faith believe everything which God has declared through His word. 1cor. 15:24-28, He has to put away all evil and death as well then Jesus would be subject unto the Father. There is order as well as peace again; but in revelations we have to have faith that when God the Father and His son Jesus, finished it we need not worry about falling again into sin or becoming bored or any such like; in Revelations chapter 22, we read about the tree that bear twelve manner of fruit, think about what the fruit takes care of; if we were to understand the fruit of the spirit from Gal.5:22. What about this fruit? There will be joy when we’re all together with The Father and the Son; it will be like it was designed to be from the very beginning. Eternal living, you know if we think for a moment what it was like as a child we get a sense of things, no time, no worries, everything was bliss.

  51. timothynchrist says:

    Howdy a do too,

    I have really enjoyed the comments, however Mart brings some important questions to the table, and how we each one weigh those questions is a scriptural challenge. In the immediate I will confess Jesus Christ is my Lord and He is the Lord of all creation.

    WHAT IF? God expects us to ask that question about the eternity He has promised us. He also expects us to have an intelligent faith according to the capabilities He has given us.

    The subject of WHAT IF is a serious is a serious subject. God and moderators willing, I go further. Consider Revelation 21:1 and 2Peter 3:10 (There is so much more to boot). The entrance from this reality/age to the next, then what is to be. It is clear God wants us to consider the “next”.

    What we do know about the resurrected state is recorded in the way Jesus manifested Himself post resurrection, and, “We will be Like Him”.

    Much to go with this, but keeping words to minimum. WHAT IF What Peter and John are saying is not a repositioning in this universe, but all things are “New”. Please bear with me. Even with “strings” and “branes”, it is not clear if our humongous universe is collapsing. If the universe is collapsing at the speed of light, then even the light from the closest star, aside the sun, zipping past our observational abilities with an oh wow from us, would be a very radical warning about an event that is way serious.

    Quick conclusion; what God has in eternity for us in Jesus Christ is more awesome than our minds can grasp without His glimpses He give us by the gift of His Holy Spirit given to us, revealing what we need at a given point in the time He has given us, by the gift of faith to believe the grace of the gift, our Lord Jesus Christ.

    I cease for now. Blessings to you all. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own undertstanding.

    Please do smile

  52. MZ PATTI says:

    I JUST LOOK FORWARD TO THE POWER AND GLORY OF SWIMMING IN HIS LOVE

  53. MZ PATTI says:

    I know that the more we try to follow the Ten Commandments, the Beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount, the closer we come to living in that heaven on earth. When mankind couldn’t seem to understand and live by the Ten Commandments our God sent His own Son to earth to teach us and show us how to live. Jesus taught us by living it and preaching it in a way that we could understand that all we had to do is follow Him and our Father’s word. If we would just put God first, all his promises wouled come to light and we would see and know his wisdom and our eternal lives. The older I get (I’m now 70), the more I hunger just to be in his presence…But the more I hunger his presence, the more He shows me that I only need to keep giving Him and His love to others and He’ll keep giving me more of Himself. That’s the key to Heaven. Not a day passes that I don’t find someone that needs Him… and that’s the joy orf the Lord. So I just gie myself to Him every day and watch as his love lights up my life beyond belief. Yes… there can be heaven right here on earth… if we just follow the directions in the best rule book ever written… our Holy Bible… God bless you all.

  54. SFDBWV says:

    In Revelation 2:17, Christ tells us that we will be given a white stone, and in that stone a new name…

    *What If* that new name is representitive of your life lived here, for Christ. Describes what kind of Christian you were….Wondering if we will be happy or sad about our new name? Seeing how no man will know it except he that recieved it.

    Steve

  55. Lively says:

    Good morning, all!…

    I went to sleep thinking about this – and I decided I “envy” those of you who are certain of what it will be like.

  56. SFDBWV says:

    Stacy, 25 inches of snow still on the ground….calling for rain for the next several days.

    Have enjoyed the past few sunny days.

    Remembering that there is a thousand years after the resurection and rapture of the Church before we step off into eterity with the new heaven and new earth.

    We have a while to learn about our heavenly home. But I must remember that even there we are to have the heart of a servant, humble and eternaly grateful for the one who made it possible for any of us to be there.

    Steve

  57. Mart De Haan says:

    Craig,
    I was trying to frame danger differently without any relationship to sin or rebellion. Was wondering if we could conceive of wanting so much to honor our God that we would think of “danger” in real but different terms. Am obviously way over my head :-)… but wanting to get past my occasional (admittedly sinful) presumption of boredom when I think of a perfect, eternal state.

  58. pegramsdell says:

    Hebrews 12:2
    Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    So….spending eternity with us in heaven was worth dying for??? Thank You Jesus!

  59. jimgroberts says:

    We have this certainty that when we meet Him we will be like Him.
    As revelation continually reminds us; in the presence of God ALL eyes are on Him in praise and adoration. Is that not to be expected, nothing can compare with Him, He is awesome, more awesome than His creation and think how vast and colourful and beyond understanding are the heavens. Can you even considere be being bored in the presence of God. As in Pilgrims progress I am all for the shortcut to heaven just as Faith. There is no greater love than to lay down your life for another!!!

  60. Lively says:

    Sigh, I wrote the post but was logged out before I hit submit. One of the very few times I didn’t type in word first… lol

    Steve – I’m so glad! We’ve some snow left, but not nearly as much as you. I’m praying the rains be light, we don’t need to add (another) flood to this years winter woes. Our trees are starting to look fuzzy, it always seems to me that it takes forever for them to leaf out. Especially since I’m longing for the greens and warmth of Spring.

    I might not know what Heaven *is* but I’m pretty sure what it *isn’t*! I’m pretty sure it isn’t boring!

  61. SFDBWV says:

    Stacy, I have a mystery bush outside my livingroom window. I say mystery because no one has been able to identify it for me.

    I call it my blessings bush. It gets little red blossoms on it, and is the very first to do so. Having lived here for over 35 years for the first 25 years it never produced anything except thoes little red flowers in the spring.

    The first year Matthew and I were here in our present situation, it grew 2 or 3 little green *apples*. Then year after year the bush began producing dozens and dozens of these *little green apples*.

    The amazing thing about them are that if I bring them into the house and let them *age* they turn a yellow color and have a very fragrant aroma, but do not mold or spoil.

    So I call it my blessings bush, as it seems to produce more and more blessings as God produces more and more blessings in our life here.

    Heaven will have many trees and bushes and flowers that will be above and beyond beauty as we understand them now. Knowing that such pleasent moments are only a shadow of the heavenly reality.

    Steve

  62. InHisHands says:

    Dear BTA friends,

    The many comments have reassured me that the information I have received about Heaven (thru’ Bible reading and messages heard) has been the same that you have all received. The added blessing is that we will get to greet and meet all those brothers and sisters in Christ that we can not possibly get to know here on earth. We will share the joy of serving the Savior in His glorious light, and be joyfilled in doing so.

    Our Pastor has commented that if we find it hard, boring, or undesirable to be with God’s people and serving the Lord we are in for a real surprise when we get to Heaven. (referring to those who, though saved, desire to live the worldly life – rather that focus on the spiritual). He says that by working shoulder to shoulder and serving the Lord, we can experience a little of ‘Heaven’ here on earth.

    Please keep my son in your prayers. We are playing the waiting game – they still have him incarcerated, and have not started the psche eval nor gotten him to a neurologist. He has gotten himself into trouble with the law before, but this time it was the seizures and meds that created the problem – not something he should have to do a length time for. I thank you for your prayers – I have seen him calm down and accept that we have to go thru’ this process to get him out of there – this will keep him from collecting more time due to outbursts while in.

    May you all have a truly blessed day.

  63. pegramsdell says:

    InHisHands, I will keep your son in my prayers.
    My son is finally being released in 2 weeks after a year and a half. My son, as well, has been in trouble before, driving without a license, no insurance, drugs. It will be good to see him.
    I will be praying for your son to have peace. And no seizures. The time really does go fast. Take comfort.

  64. poohpity says:

    Steve, in the days of John they gave stones out much like we do invitations to an event today. The Lord seemed to be telling the church at Pergamos (the lenient church) to change their ways which it seems may have been represented by the stones with new names on them to represent the change called for. Just a thought.

    Mart, about boredom. I believe that if we consider all the intricate details that surround us in this life or all the things we could be doing to benefit the Kingdom and do not do we realize how much there really is to learn and do. I believe in Heaven with a whole different set of circumstance it will be just as intricate as this life even more so because I think we will be able to have complete information about the inner workings of creation. Scientists still do not understand even how the human brain functions and in heaven we will be with the one who created that brain so mystery upon mystery will be open to a full understanding and I think that will take much time to learn if we are even interested in it while in the presence of God.

    I can not even imagine what will be revealed to us. If the knowledge and understanding which we strive for in this present day seems to be never ending we will be in the midst of all the answers. Wow!! I sometimes think we are in our little worlds and are satisfied with just barely enough knowledge to get by with that in heaven “what-if” it was all laid on the table before us, I for one would not get bored learning.

  65. poohpity says:

    Just a bit of humor. When some say to much knowledge can be dangerous that may be where the “danger” lies.

  66. phpatato says:

    Steve

    Environment Canada scientists have just weighed in on our winter this year. They report that winter 2009/10 was 4 C above normal (I believe that is 7 F), making it the warmest since nationwide records were first kept in 1948. It was also the driest winter on the 63-year record, with precipitation 22 per cent below normal nationally, and down 60 per cent in parts of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Ontario. We had only 1 major snowstorm this winter and that fell just before Christmas.

    A senior climatologist says “it’s beyond shocking”. He also warns that “the winter than wasn’t” may have set the stage for potentially “horrific” water shortages, insect infestations and wildfires this summer. The extraordinary winter appears to be tied to several factors, chief among them El Nino, a shift in the winds and ocean currents in the Pacific Ocean, and the shrinking Arctic ice, which has thinned and retreated markedly in recent years. This year’s wacky winter, he says, may be a sign of things to come.
    “This may be dress rehearsal of what we’ll see as normal in years to come,” says Phillips, suggesting it is time to start adapting to the new warmer reality.

    Guess that is why they had to truck snow in for the Olympics.

    Pat

  67. poohpity says:

    Here in AZ there has been more rain than we have gotten in a whole year in just one month. It may just be showing that there is a shift in climates. Just like Steve has gotten more snow than usual and Florida has gotten more snow also.

  68. MZ PATTI says:

    IN 11CHRONICLES 20:15 IT SAYS “BE NOT AFRAID NOR DISMAYED BY
    REASON OF THIS GREAT MULTITUDE (OR DANGER); FOR THE BATTLE IS NOT YOURS, BUT GODS” THE SCRIPTURES TEACH US TO GIVE ALL OF OUR DANGERS TO THE LORD AND LET HIM CARRY THE LOAD. THE DANGER
    EXIST WHEN WE TRY TO SOLVE THOSE ELEMENTS BY OURSELVES.
    GOD BLESS YOU ALL

  69. MZ PATTI says:

    HAS ANYONE EVER NOTICED THAT WHEN YOU’RE IN THE PRESENSE OF THE
    HOLY SPIRIT A SCENT COMES OVER YOU SWEETER THAN HONEYSUCKLES
    OR ANY OTHER EARTHLY SMELL WE CAN REMEMBER? THAT SCENT JUST OPENS THE HEART TO TRUTH AND LOVE BEYOND ANY WE’VE EVER KNOWN.
    GOD CLESS YOU ALL

  70. SFDBWV says:

    Pooh, I have discovered in studying Revelation that there are, as there are in most all of scripture, multiple purposes for that which the Holy Spirit says.

    Since none of the churches Christ spoke to in Revelation exist any longer, some theologens believe the churches spoken of are church ages as well as any denominational congregation today.

    It is also true that Christ speaks to each of us individualy in the subject matter as well.

    Keeping with the spirit of *what if*, was how I applied the stone comment.

    Pat I personaly do not believe the global warming concept from the political view. That man is causing it. However the idea that climate changes and that the earth has continued to warm since the last Ice Age, makes sense.

    If one believes the description of the last days, there will be much out of kilter with what we have come to expect as normal.

    MZ PATTI, yes I has been blessed by experiancing that strange perfume that comes with the Holy Spirit.

    Steve

  71. pegramsdell says:

    “Like the fragrance…after the rain..”

  72. MZ PATTI says:

    AMEN

  73. phpatato says:

    There are huge patches of grass on my lawn (where the snow didn’t drift) and some fields are bare of snow. Garages are busy busy taking snow tires off and putting summer tires on. To me, winter isn’t over yet. The first part of April has seen, in the past, a few major snow dumps.

    I heard a robin though.

  74. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Coldest winter for 31 years here and all the plants about six weeks late.
    Trees that normally flower in February still not in bud yet.
    So even though spring comes earlier here than North America it is late for us this year.

  75. dependent says:

    Thank you Mart for wondering aloud about an eternity “full of challenge, excitement, danger, work, and rest”. Your questions have ignited a deeper wonder and sense of HOPE ‘for the glory that awaits’.

    So much is said in the N.T. about the important role of hope as we perservere with faith, following the author of that eternal hope.

    Which led me to wonder what role hope and faith will play in our relationship with God after the last enemy, death, is eliminated and Jesus hands over the kingdom to God the Father (1Cor 15).

    I too stumbled over the word “danger”…perhaps “risk” fits the idea that we will still serve God and his purposes in his creation. Perhaps our sense of challengem excitement and risk will stem from the creative process as we seek to discover uniques ways to bring glory and honor to him–each one’s uniqueness fully employed in the pursuit of honoring his eternal intentions–uninhibitrd by mortal flesh and free of the all-too-familiar burden of the curses wrought by sin and death.

    It will take an eternity of eternities to discover all the glory that is reserved for us to experience… may our faith and perserverance be fortified as we contemplate the hope found in our Savior.

  76. dependent says:

    …consider extra ungrammatical consonents and vowels a bonus!…

  77. Nathan Chandra says:

    I once had an imagination of what our world’s future would be like, and how the world would be in a brink of destruction and saved in the last minute by Christ and his followers. When Christ came the second time, the world’s population are so grateful to Him that they elected Him as King. With that, the Kingdom of Heaven is literally established on Earth.

    Just an imaginative story a had a few years back.

  78. dust says:

    Hi all

    I realy love all your comments and wisdom. I’m 75 and I am discovering that each day I need Jesus’s help more and more, praise his holy name. Remember correction is not rejection, just our loving fathers gentle gidance.

    I am so grateful that Jesus loves ALL of us.

  79. priglin says:

    Revelation is by far my favorite part of the bible, despite causing me to ponder the meaning of such symbolism. Even though we are given an “idea” of what heaven is about, I question what it will be like if any family members or friends don’t make it. Any thoughts?

  80. poohpity says:

    priglin, I thought about that and if there is no more tears or sorrow I wonder if we only groan for them now.

    dependent, LOL thanks for the bonuses. Always loved bonuses. I think we may get a lot of them in heaven, but not in the form of (laughing) vowels and consonants. That just made me crack up which is better than being cracked down, I think.

  81. timothynchrist says:

    I do love you all. Let me say this; it is a reasonable plan not to complain to God that you are bored. I assure you He is able to fill that hole you call boredom with something He wants accomplished. I know this. Are you laughing? So am I at the the other end of the complaint. I am crying too.

    Here is a neat thing; I hear folks say,”don’t ask for patience”, but I am here to tell you requesting patience is not really a thing not to ask for. The double negative actually worked there dependent:-) Complaining about being bored is a totally different facet in communication with God. Here is the response I got, “Are ya really bored Timmy? Ya didn’t think loving the people I put in your life was difficult enough? Here is some really weird stuff, so quit complaining, and press on toward the goal for the prize of My upward calling in My Son Jesus Christ, and read verse 15 again.”

    Phew, I’ll take the patience and ponder the “What If’s”. Do laugh, but I am serious. So is God.

    Please do laugh, also know I love you, and do ponder the “What If’s”. Mart is wanting us to exercise the gift of “think” God gave us. Whatchallbeenthinkinbout?

    Timothy

  82. dependent says:

    Guess I didn’t read any complaining about being bored in *this* age. But I can identify with those who confess that our notions of living in a “perfect” eternal existence could seem boring–especially considering the myriad definitions of “perfect” that could be imagined.

    We are so “tuned” to this existence that it is indeed hard to imagine the ‘details’ of living a purposeful and motivated existence in a realm where time might seem meaningless, conflict has been resolved, justice has been served and the definitions of “work” or “creativitiy” or even “learning” must look VERY different from what we perceive on this side of the ‘dark glass’…

    [I’m also glad someone earlier has contemplated the possible connections with recent “string”/”brane” theories that point to an alternate ‘dimension’ that can not be perceived though it is -right here-. I’ve enjoyed toying with the notion that ‘the place where God dwells’ –heaven– can only be fully experienced by those possessing a redeemed/resurrected body animated by God’s Spirit. And perhaps the ‘new heaven’ that sort of merges with the ‘new earth’ per Revelations might actually be the privilege of enjoying this ‘parallel’ and perfect dimension. e.g. Jesus eating and able to be touched physically in our space/time dimension, yet simultaneously transcending the physics by which we are still constrained…. No wonder descriptions of heaven in scripture -must- rely on figurative metaphorical language to describe things that human language is ill-equipped to describe. = GLORY!

  83. Lively says:

    Priglin –

    Wondering about how/if we miss loved ones that don’t make it is something that bothers me, too. This sounds silly, but I recently read that pets don’t go to Heaven, either. There have been times in my life when my dog was my only friend down here, or so it felt like at the time. The thought she won’t be there bother’s me a bit too.

    I wish I had answers for that, but I just hold on to my faith that He promised a place that would defy our dreams and He doesn’t let us down.

  84. afranz says:

    I’m not too worried about scientists predictions for the future. They still haven’t figured out the BIG BANG is at the end of creation, not the beginning (2 Peter 3:10 …and the heavens shall pass away with a great noise)KJV Bang! :>) (Although I will concede to a noisy creation, it just isn’t recorded that way)
    “What if” I just take Jesus at His word that He has gone to prepare a place for me.
    “For a day in Your courts is better than a thousand. I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God
    Than dwell in the tents of wickedness.”NKJV
    Thank You Jesus

  85. tandgmartin says:

    Great topic, Mart. I’ve often thought of this as everyone else here has. Jesus calling it Paradise causes me to picture unspoiled tropical islands. I’ve also thought of the many Christian bands I enjoy and have enjoyed over the years, reunited for eternity, and being able to go from worship venue to worship venue and praising God along with the various bands, with sound systems we can’t imagine.
    I also think of what CS Lewis mentioned in The Last Battle, as King Tirian and the others entered through the tent door into eternity, which was, as others here have mentioned, a new, perfect Narnia (creation) and the call was to go “farther up and farther in!”
    Thanks for the opportunity to share here with others about our future that, whatever we imagine, will be even better and more perfect yet.

  86. MZ PATTI says:

    I SO FEEL WHAT YOU SAID TANDGMARTIN.I FEEL LIKE EVERYSTEP WE TAKE TOWARDS FOLLOWING OUR DEAR LORDS WORDS TAKE US ANOTHER STEP CLOSER TO OUR FUTURE HEAVENS. I BELIEVE IT’S A PURIFICATION PROCESS THAT LIFTS US HIGHER AND HIGHER TOWARDS OUR ULTIMATE GOAL OF REUNITING WITH OUR LORD GOD JESUS CHRIST.
    ONCE WE REUNITE WITH HIM WE’LL NO LONGER HAVE A THOUGHT PROCESS OF OUR OWN…WE WILL HAVE BECOME PART OF THAT MASTERFUL POWER AND GLORY THAT CREATED US TO BEGIN WITH. I NOW AM ONLY TRYING TO FOLLOW HIS INSTRUCTIONS SO THAT I’LL ALREADY BE SO HIGH ON HIM THAT I WON’T EVEN KNOW WHEN I’VE LEFT THIS BODY BEHIND.
    GOD BLESS YOU ALL…IV’E SO ENJOYED READING WHAT EVERYONE HAS
    HAD TO SAY…MART REALLY STARTED A SNOWBALL OF EXPRESSION.

  87. Zonie says:

    Great topic! However, I was struck by the use of “danger.” “…full of challenge, excitement, danger, work, and rest?” To me, danger implies fear, uncertainty, peril, the possibility of negative consequences: things I don’t expect in heaven.

    I certainly don’t see heaven as boring (sitting on a cloud strumming a harp). Lots of good insights from the book, “Heaven,” by Randy Alcorn. Likely the new earth will be… earth. With excitement, work, discovery, learning, service, growth, and praise, worship, fellowship. Won’t we have bodies, like Christ’s resurrection body. (I Cor. 15:20)

    We do know heaven, or the new earth – our future as followers of Jesus – will far surpass anything we can imagine. Think of this life with four dimensions (the physical three dimensions plus time). Now think of a world with ten dimensions, for example; it’s beyond our comprehension. But not beyond God. He is infinite; *HE* is beyond our comprehension in His fullness. And He has gone to prepare that place for us, and will return soon. Maranatha!

  88. SFDBWV says:

    Stacy, I would draw your attention to Job 12:10…”In whose han is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.”

    Here there is a distinction between man and every other living thing. But both have a soul…

    I believe all creatures great and small will be in heaven.

    Steve

  89. MZ PATTI says:

    AMEN STEVE

  90. SFDBWV says:

    In the winter of 2002-2003 we had 233 inches of snow. However it was spread out over 7 months having snow from October through April is not unusual for us. This year we have 286 inches to date, of snowfall.

    Bayard held the record 24 hr snowfall for a very long time, until a small town in southern WV bested us in a springtime snowfall a few years ago. Our record 24 hr snowfall came on April 28th 1928…38 inches.

    During the 70’s Time and Newsweek magazines ran stories about wondering if we were entering another Ice Age.

    Most of the warmest recorded temps I have seen were recorded in the 30’s, 1933 I believe the hottest. The dust bowl weather was a result of it.

    In 1812 I believe it was, a volcano erupted in the South Pacific that created a summer in Europe and North America that had massive crop failures due to cold weather with frost and freezing temps throughout the summer season.

    I am only saying all this because, we are being led to believe that the weather we are experiancing is something that has never happened before.

    This winters snowfall was different for us in that it came all at once and had no time to settle or melt. Making for added problems of driving our cars and going to and fro in it.

    Political pundits would have us believe that we are creating the problem of altered weather. But if we take a closer look the weather isn’t all that different.Climate scientists disagree on the subject and argue between themselves on the data. Even if the data is correct or tampered with.

    When one reads Revelation, as well as Matthew 24, or makes an indepth study of endtime events. It is certain that the terrible events that will occur may be caused by a host of possibile actions.

    One third of the trees and grass die, one third of the oceans die, one third of all mankind will die.

    Is it an astroid or comet that collides with earth? Is it nuclear war? Some say both. it is certain that starvation and disease would follow either.

    I am convinced that the rapture of the Church will occure before the tribulation. Spoken of in Revelation and timed in Daniel.

    Since in the Garden of Eden there was no rain, I also wonder if there will be no clouds nor rainy days in Heaven… It would seem not.

    Steve

  91. Lively says:

    Steve – Thank you!! The argument I read was that animals didn’t have souls. I’m thinkin… “my dog(s) have more of a soul than some people I know!” *smile*

    But, I’m not so sure about ticks and leaches… they can’t have a soul… oh! and cockroaches, too! Yuck! I’m not really the squeamish type, but I’ve a hard time “loving” those creatures…

  92. poohpity says:

    Mart, you said, “Imagine helping one another forever to find new ways of expressing our ability to delight in and show our gratitude to the One who died for us?”. It would be such a blessing to see that now in this day and age.

  93. Lively says:

    Pooh –

    I’ve seen it, and it is truly a blessing.

    Stacy

  94. Pamella says:

    I have no idea what Heaven on earth will be like, but I know I won’t be disappointed. I don’t believe that we will just sit around, but there will be enjoyable work for us to do.

    I often say, ” When I get to Heaven I am going to ask Jesus this or that.” I am hoping that there will be many times where we simply sit at Jesus’ feet and learn of all the things that are at this time a mystery to us.

    I don’t believe sin will ever rear its ugly head again and that we will dwell in peace and safety forever. There will be no tears, no sadness, no fear, no pain, no death. We will have joy everlasting because we will be with Jesus!

  95. SFDBWV says:

    Stacy, I wanted to also bring your attention to Revelation 16:3 “”And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.”

    God is everywhere His creation is. From the tiny microbe to the mighty redwood…His eye upon the sparrow as well as the lilies of the field.

    Every thing that we see here in this earth we will see in our heavenly realm.

    One of thoes little items that pass by some, is that God planted a garden eastward in Eden….planted a garden. Where did the seeds come from??? Some say from Heaven. Maybe Eden was a special place on Earth that God took seeds from other places on Earth….But where did the seeds for the Tree of Life come from? Or the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?…I think the seeds came from heaven….

    Steve

  96. Lively says:

    Sigh, so I guess that means the ticks and cockroaches, too? I suppose they’ll be different in heaven… I sure hope so!

    The question about seeds is a good one, I think ultimately, everything on the earth comes from God’s Heart.

  97. SFDBWV says:

    Mart raises an interesting thought about there being personal need, even crises of immeasurable proportions…

    Here and now, I can only truly appreciate a cool drink of water when I am thirsty. Yet Jesus told the woman at the well, that she could have water that will well up inside her and leave her never thirsty again ( John 4:14 ).

    Of course the comment leaves me wondering if Jesus was speaking of water literaly or of the thirst for righteousness, seeing that the water He told her of would also give her everlasting life.

    Revelation also speaks of no sun no moon no night, only the bright light of God’s presence.

    Will we sleep? Will we dream? Apparently we will be fully satisfied… Just wondering if we could appreciate the light without the darkness.

    Since Jesus ate fish with His new transformed body, I would suppose we too will eat….that is if we are hungry or in need of physical substance.

    Since I understand soil to be the stuff of decay, And since there will be no more death….Curious about how soil will exist or feed the plants and trees we expect to see there.

    I guess heaven may look the same in many ways, but fall under very different laws of existence.

    Steve

  98. poohpity says:

    Does everyone believe that there is a difference between what we refer to as Heaven where God reigns and then there will be a new creation of the New Earth and New Heaven? I think they are two totally different places with different purposes. Just a thought.

  99. bubbles says:

    Deb,
    I concur with you. I could be totally confused, but have always thought that the millenium (on earth) would come after the tribulation, last 1000 years, other things, and then eternity. John speaks of the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven. . .I haven’t read this for awhile, so won’t go further because it’s probably wrong. I haven’t read about last days/events afterward for awhile. Just want to make it to 10:00 a.m. :)
    One of my girls had a pet horse that died. She was asking me if she would see this beloved horse in heaven. Revelation does speak of horses. . . :) That seemed to make her feel better.
    Won’t it be wonderful to finally be able to sit down with people from the Bible and have long conversations IN PERSON! It’s like we already know them from learning about them, but won’t it be great to actually see them? Most of all,to be able to see our Lord face to face and say ‘thank you’ for all eternity? AND to not have the burden of sin!!!!

    Whatever we do in heaven will be right and good and wonderful because our loving Heavenly Father has designed it for us. We can certainly trust Him for that.

    one more thought: hope there’s great chocolate and coffee in heaven. lol. . . gluttony is a sin.

  100. pegramsdell says:

    Did someone say chocolate and coffee???? Yessss! lol

  101. poohpity says:

    I am in for it all with the bonus of chocolate and coffee. lol. I guess that is a time when we can hope for it ALL, is that selfish? It sounds so selfish but to me just to be without sorrow, pain and suffering sounds like heaven and I am soooooo ready.

  102. poohpity says:

    You know I would rather be confused with unanswered questions and show love then the opposite.

  103. poohpity says:

    Isaiah speaks of the New Earth and New Heaven in Isaiah 65 also where the former things will be remembered no more. Yea!!!

  104. Lively says:

    Bubbles! You said it before I did! lol Coffee, chocolate and sourdough bread.

    Yes, I suppose we are selfish to want it all, but who knows – as we will no longer be as we are now – perhaps it will be something that we simply can’t imagine. It’s sure to be amazing.

  105. bubbles says:

    okay. The coffee/chocolate thing was JUST a joke.
    Think someone could invent a caffiene (sp?) patch? Did not have any chocolate today, and it’s too late for another coffee. We won’t need these comfort/pick-me-up things in heaven.

    It’s wonderful, exciting, and interesting and a little scary to study/learn all we can about what will happen after the Lord comes to get us.

    There are dear people who aren’t ready. But, we have to trust Him that He knows the very best time to come.
    Knowing that should spur us on to witness and pray for those who don’t know the Lord. It’s very easy to get our eyes on the temporal things of every day life and to let the eternal things get sidetracked. Mart, thank your for reminding us of what is truly important.

    Thank God that there is MORE to life than the happenings here.

  106. Lively says:

    Actually, Bubbles – I wasn’t really joking :-) There are some things on this earth that truly must be God given. Things that make it almost bearable, considering what we’ll have when it’s time for us to move on. Most of them are pretty simple, like chocolate – or a child’s laugh – or puppy kisses – or a hug from someone we love.

    One of my favorites is when you’re driving and come past a bend in the road and the view simply sucks the breath right out of you and all you can do is just marvel at the beauty of God’s work.

    For me, those are the little hints of what Heaven will be.

  107. MZ PATTI says:

    AREN’T WE ALL SUPPOSED TO BE FEEDING ON THE WORD…ISN’T THAT SUPPOSED TO BE OUR COMFORT FOOD? IT’S SO EASY TO GET LOST IN THE WORD WHEN WE KEEP FOLLOWING THE WORD FROM ONE SCRIPTURE TO ANOTHER BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS. I
    TOO HAVE MY COMFORT CRAVINGS BUT MORE AND MORE THE WORD IS
    FILLING THOSE CRAVINGS AND LESS AND LESS DO I REMEMBER THOSE OLD CRAVINGS AND INSTEAD I’M CRAVING THE WORD. I USED TO THINK THAT ALL I NEEDED TO DO WAS STUDY JESUS CHRIST WORDS IN MATTHEW
    THE BEATITUDES…THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT…BUT THE MORE I GO IN SEARCH OF THE OLD TESTAMENTS THAT I FOLLOW FROM OUT OF THE NEW TESTAMENT THE MORE I UNDERSTAND HOW IT ALL COMES TOGETHER.
    MART ISN’T COMING UP WITH THESE QUERIES OFF THE TOP OF HIS HEAD
    HE KNOWS THE BIBLE SO WELL INSIDE AND OUT THAT HE’S LEADING US TO SEARCH THOSE WORDS FOR TRUTH ABD UNDERSTANDING SO WE CAN
    SPEAK IT AS EASILY AS HE DOES. AND THAT’S WHAT WE’VE ALL BEEN
    DOING HERE. I JUST LOVE YOU ALL SO MUCH AND I KNOW THAT GOD BLESSES US ALL

  108. Lively says:

    Mz Patti – Man doesn’t live by bread alone :-) I think that’s true in scipture and in the literal sense of eating. We’re called to spend time *alone* with Him and to gather together in His name. And, often when we gather in His name, we break bread in His name – nourishing both our bodies and our spirits.

    I think, He intended us to enjoy the foods we eat. In some ways, it is easier to have joy in the spirtual gifts He bestowed upon us – there is a smaller risk of sin there, but it would be wrong to ignore the gifts He gave that are “worldly.”

  109. rxman says:

    Great topic. I have been reading a book called The Naked Gospel by Andrew Farley. Reading some of the blogs here, I’ve seen some say we will receive rewards in heaven for how or what we have done on earth. Mr. Farley says that nowhere in the Bible does it say rewards. It says we will receive a reward, which is us getting to spend eternity with God. If we think about it, do we really believe that there will be some sort of caste system where those who have done “more” on earth get a better “apartment” in heaven.

    Also, I’ve always been taught that there will be a Great White Throne of Judgment for Christians. Mr. Farley explains that Jesus paid for our sins past, present, and FUTURE. Our sins are as far as the east is from the west and He will remember them NO MORE. The judgment is for the unsaved.

    Any thoughts?

  110. SFDBWV says:

    rxman, There is such a thing as the prophets reward. When done the scriptural answer is that such a reward is the presence of God.

    At the end of the 1000 years of Christ’s rule upon the earth, is when Satan is once again released from his chains and allowed once again to tempt the children of men. Following that final rebelion, is when the second resurection occurs and the unsaved are judged. All thoes whoes names are not written in the Lambs book of life are then cast into the firey lake forever along with satan and his followers…

    It is then that the Earth and Heaven are burned up and a new heaven and a new earth merge together to be our final eternal home….

    Interestingly last night on David Jerimiah he spoke of this very subject.

    He agrees with Bob (NC) and Dean (WOC) that the firey destruction of heaven and earth are a purification and cleansing of the two, not that God recreates the two following their demise. In the same way God destroyed the earth in the flood without actually totaly destroying it. But changing it.

    Steve

  111. SFDBWV says:

    Kathy (Bubbles), I am still amused at a comercial that Dairy Queen had on last year. The product was an ultimate Choclate delight Blizzard.

    In the comercial a fellow setting with his wife in Dairy Queen is enjoying the *heavenly* delight of the Blizzard, imagining himself setting on a cloud being waited on by a butler and beautiful women.

    The wife sees what he’s thinking about and with the flick of her finger knocks him off his cloud….very funny.

    I would hope that there are work done perfectly, relationships enjoyed perfectly, feasts of yet unimagined tastes. Beginning with the wedding feast. That are wonders to see and feel and touch, and yes rest. Coming in our eternal home prepared for us by Jesus Christ. In fact I am sure of it.

    Steve

  112. phpatato says:

    Rev 21:1 – Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.

    Would God not have to do some major reconstruction of earth to have New Jerusalem with no more seas? Rev 22:1 speaks of “a” crystal river flowing from God’s throne. Is it not usually easier, when wanting to do renovations, to just simply tear down the old and start all over..to create new? Also, Rev 21:15,16 speaks of New Jerusalem being measured as 12,000 furlongs (1500 miles) long and wide. Earth would have to be shortened up lots if it were to be just only purified and cleansed????

  113. dependent says:

    This is a fun and edifying topic for me–it does a soul good to focus on the hope that is set before us!.

    Steve–your comment about ‘soil’ snd death/decay in the ‘new’ earth is fascinating. Never thought of that.

    With regard to ‘danger’, or ‘risk’, as we go about enjoying a redeemed creation:
    Suppose the resurrected body of Jesus the Christ IS a model of what is in store for us, and we will somehow function within this current (created) space/time dimension without some of the retraints of ‘physics’ as we know it (e.g. as Jesus did entering locked rooms, bodily ascending in defiance of gravity, etc).

    If that is the case, it seems much of the physical danger/risk we encounter now from our environment would disappear. For example: “Cliff? Oh this cliff! No problemo! The gravity that holds the rocks on this precupice is not a danger to me as I pass the edge…”

    I can picture the Father delighting in our discovery of these wonders and the resultant/automatic joyful worship of His plan to adopt us into His glory-filled ‘house’. But I can’t grasp what sort of tasks or work or challenges we would face in an environment where the effects of the ‘curse of sin and death’ are no more!

    The splendor of the Lord…

    ——————
    But just as it is written, “Things that no eye has seen, or ear heard, or mind imagined, are the things God has prepared for those who love him.”

    —————–
    Thomas replied to him,”My Lord and my God!”
    Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are the people who have not seen and yet have believed.”

  114. dependent says:

    phpatato: I like how you think!

    Consider whether the term “easier” applies to the one who spoke all this into existence!”

    Crystal river, lion laying with lamb…[talk about a revamp of the food chain!) I wish I could better discern which descriptive terminology in Rev is literal and which metaphorical.

    Scripture sure supports the notion that the ‘place’ where God most fully makes his presence known (aka heaven) is not simply a “state of mind/heart”–but indeed some place/dimension that one can “go to” and “return from” in a glorified body. A ‘place’ invisible to our natural senses — but one day to be revealed and inhabitable after some revamping of these sin-plagued earth-suits we call ‘bodies’.

  115. SFDBWV says:

    Pat, Over on WOC blog some time back Dean broached the subject of the earth we now living in being restored and would exist in it’s proper form forever.

    I quoted 2Peter as well as Revelation. But he made his argument to the contrary.

    It is for me one of thoes subjects that I thought was clearly stated in the scripture. “Elements melted away” “burned up” ect…

    I will stick with what the Word says and believe that God will destroy what we know of as earth and heaven and then provide a new one, as said in scripture…However He accomplishes it.

    However heaven and earth will be merged into a combination of planes of existance. So that they will coexist in the same place at the same *time*. Yes the New Jerusalem sounds small compared to the earth and however large we may think of as Heaven.

    I’m not even sure *time* will be a player in that coming eternity.

    17 inches of snow on the ground this morning, very little rain last night and fog all day today. Slowly getting there…

    Steve

  116. dependent says:

    Steve, how do you feel ’bout now regarding any possibility of snowstorms in heaven? LOL

  117. Anna777 says:

    Foreverblessed – I have a message for you on the previous blog. Sorry about the delayed response, explanation on the “Too Good To Be True” blog.

    Kingsdaughter – I continue to have you in my prayers. I haven’t gotten to even read the blogs to see how you are doing. My husband has been in the hospital for a bit. Know that you are in my prayers!

    Anna

  118. poohpity says:

    Anna, I will be praying for your husband and know that I will be thinking of you both. Let us know how things are going. Remember to find rest for yourself. Deb

  119. saled says:

    Some might be beginning to notice that I often quote J. Vernon McGee, and I am happy to say that most of my Bible training comes from that source. In his messages on Revelation, he gives support for the idea that the New Jerusalem will either be a satellite to the earth or the earth will be a satellite to the New Jerusalem. His belief is that the New Jerusalem is the place that Jesus was referring to when he spoke of going to prepare a place for us, and that perhaps we will travel back and forth between it and earth. Interesting to think about these ideas; great to know that we don’t have to figure it all out.

  120. phpatato says:

    Dependent….”Consider whether the term “easier” applies to the one who spoke all this into existence!”

    That’s the point I was going to clarify and expand on. I believe that the ONE, who spoke all into existence, can so very easily recreate a new heaven and new earth!!! It will be …”the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven, from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband”. Rev 21:2

    Again, “Our Eternal Home” by Richard De Haan, is a booklet I will make a point of reading a few times more, for sure. I can picture in my head now, with his help, what John said about the pearly gates, the jeweled foundation, it’s jasper wall and it’s Tree of Life beside a crystal river. It will be AWEsome!

  121. poohpity says:

    I personally would rather stick to what the bible says but that is just me.

  122. Anna777 says:

    Deb – Thanks so much. I really do appreciate the prayer! So true about getting the rest. I finally got him home tonight after five days in the hospital (heart problems). I’m not going to know what to do tonight not having to sleep in a “chairbed”. I forgot what a great feeling it is to just be able to go in my own kitchen and get a cup of tea. The simple things mean so much!

    Anna

  123. poohpity says:

    I think that same feeling of just being home will be what it feels like when we get to heaven. I do not know about everyone else but I like surprises and instead of trying to guess beyond what we have been shown through scripture about heaven seems futile to me and a waste of time that could be used in service while we are here.

    Glad you are home Anna.

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