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People in Perspective

I’m guessing it’s one of the most helpful perspectives of the Bible.

Admittedly, because all of the words of the Scriptures are God-breathed, it’s important not to emphasize one text at the expense of others.

But it looks to me as though there is one statement that might help us take a second look at the rest.

The words I’m referring to are spoken by Jesus on a seventh day of the week, which in first century Israel, under the blue laws of Moses, was a strictly enforced “no work” day.

It happened in an agricultural setting as Jesus was walking through a “corn” field with his disciples. They were hungry and began picking some of the grain to eat. Their actions, however, did not escape the notice of religious leaders who asked Jesus why his followers were doing what was not allowed by Sabbath law (Mark 2:24).

In response, Jesus asked them whether they had read in the Scriptures what David had done when he and his hungry men went into the house of God and ate “holy bread” that according to the law was to be eaten only by priests (Mark 2:25-26).

Then the Teacher said it. He said that people were not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was made for people (Mark 2:27).

To further illustrate his point, “the Lord of the Sabbath” went into a synagogue and intentionally did “the work of God” by healing a man with a withered hand. His bold challenge of “no-work sabbath law” made the religious leaders so angry they went out and plotted to kill him (Mark 3:1-6).

In light of what Jesus said, can we then say that:

  1. People are more important than the laws of our society?
  2. People are more important than the processes and policies of our work places?
  3. People are more important than church doctrine, programs, and authority?

We are now in deep and dangerous water. But hasn’t our Lord brought us here? Wasn’t it Jesus himself who explained that he came not to “destroy the law” but to “fulfill it” (Matt 5:17).

Seems to me that everything our Lord did answered the question, “What do truth and grace require in the presence of broken, ignorant, lost people?”

By watching very carefully how he interacts with both “insiders” and “outsiders”– all of whom he died for–  can’t we see why he is the ultimate example of “tough love” with Pharisees…and the ultimate example of patience and gentleness with those who had lost their way.

Don’t the words and example of our Lord give us good reason to think about what each situation requires in order to show the attitudes of Christ (Matt 5:1-12), the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), and the marks of real wisdom (James 3:13-17)?


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50 Responses to “People in Perspective”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    Without question, I believe that the care, needs, and wellbeing of people are more important than the laws of Moses. Or of our land.

    That the very existance of the laws are for the wellbeing of the people they serve.

    Jesus explained this as well as exemplified it. I believe that all of His healing miracles were done on the Sabbath. Almost as a way of thumbing His nose at the law, of not working on the day of rest.

    The problem seems to be a priority we have etched into our thinking. Most of us have placed the laws of God, and so the laws of man in an order from worst to least.

    Whereas feeding a hungry person or healing them on the Sabbath, seems like a very minor infraction of the law, we would not think so lightly of the murder of someone as being a minor offence.

    It would seem each violaton needs to be examined for its sense of importance.

    I am of course speaking of laws pertaining to people, not to the multitude of regulations concerning priestly duties, ect.

    The problem becomes, *who*, who is it that decides right from wrong, and *what*,from what base do we settle on as a standard for right and wrong.

    It would sound as though this would be simple. But it is not.

    God has made rules for living. Who among us decides as which law is to be followed and which is not?

    It’s like the old question, is it alright for a hungry man to steal a loaf of bread?

    Certainly Jesus has the authority to discern when to overlook an infraction of the law and when to stand on the law.

    I would suppose that same Spirit that dwells in us, gives us the ability to discern and forgive an infraction against ourselves or not.Depending upon the seriousness of the matter, or other circumstances connected to it.

    It is also to be remembered that most of the laws of our society are in place to protect people from the preditors among us.

    So the responsibility of that protection is given to the inforcement of thoes laws, in order to provide a safe environment for all of us to live in.

    More to discuss later…

    Steve

  2. foreverblessed says:

    If we look at Jesus, we will know that the things God looks for: faith, hope and love and the Matthew 5, Galatians 5, James 3.
    are things we do not have of ourselves, neither will we ever have them by obeying the law of God.
    It is Jesus in us, the hope of Glory, through faith who will bring these things in us, through adversity, as we saw in the las topic,.
    Through Jesus, to have His life is us, His life in us will produce faith hope and love.
    If we have come to Christ, we have come from death to life, and if we then go back to the law of the Old Testament, we have missed the point of why Christ came in the firtst place:
    to give Life to us, His precious Life, full of mercy, and patience and submission.

    Can we then brake the law of God? If we ask such a question we have not killed the old man in us yet, the sinful man in us. Romans 7;4, Romans 8:3

    So what do I do then with the 4th commandment? Keep the Sabbath day?
    I for myself always keep this day, when I live through faith in Jesus. I am never out of the sabbath anymore. I cease my own works, and now live in faith in Jesus, and the works I do are His in me.
    Galatians 2:20.

  3. foreverblessed says:

    THat afcourse is how I want my life to be, but my old man is still there. During the day I have to see when my old man is speaking, and I have to actively quiet him, kill him. But beter still is:
    Look to Jesus, focus on Him, how He is, who He is, and His life will flow through me, His peace, and slowly the bad things in me and around me will retreat, will have to go. Because where Jesus is is Light and darkness had to go.

    So it is not a question of which laws we keep, it is a question of killing the old man, so that I am no longer under the law, but under grace. Romans 7 and 8.
    I am under Grace, in Jesus.

  4. foreverblessed says:

    How does that apply in normal life?
    My mother tried this on her health insurance company:
    There was something about my father, strictly speaking the case was not defined in the insurance, but she asked the agency:
    “Are the rules more important than the needs of a man?”
    (At that time our church was coping with the laws of the old testament, the sabbath on the 7th day was being abandoned.)
    And, lo and behold, the insurance man covered the thing she had asked for!

    But afcourse that is an insurance company, they have to pay a price for that. Someone has to pay, if they are more lenient, they have to increase the health care contribution.
    But with God, the price is paid, Jesus takes all our darkness, He swallowed it all,
    and give us Light: that is love,truth and grace, and patience and wisdom.

  5. SFDBWV says:

    Proverbs 14:12 ” there is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”

    Adam and Eve both lived in a perfect environment and relationship with God.

    As soon as sin came into creation, everything in creation was effected. At the very beginning, God, knowing of the infraction of the one condition for them to live in perfect harmony, still ask Adam a string of questions, already knowing the answers.

    God was forcing Adam to state what he had done (confession).

    We have been taught that the purpose of the law is to show us our sin, and thus guilt, and need for atonement.

    This is the matter of God’s laws with man….Spiritual laws.

    Here in this world, we have governments created by man. With laws that reflect that governments desires and goals of its people. The purpose being the safety and protection of thoes served….Physical laws.

    It is a fact that the spiritual will effect the physical.

    So if these spiritual laws are embeded into our physical laws, we have a more perfect union, between the two laws. Not *A* perfect union but a *more* perfect union then we would have without the basics of God given laws threaded into our physical laws of living.

    Romans 13:8 “Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.”
    Galations 5:14 “For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.”

    If we obey the commandment Jesus gave us in John 15:12, in that we love one another, as He has loved us. Then we have no fear from any law. Spiritual nor from our own governments.

    But what happens when our own governments enact laws contrary to God’s laws? Or that our goverment enacts laws that oppress people?

    Do we, as Jesus did, violate thoes laws we feel is in the wrong?

    More to discuss.

    Steve

  6. poohpity says:

    It seems the “tough love” that Jesus displayed with the teachers of the law was simply to show them that they were not above or better than any other person. That their traditions and hard nosed application of the law brought selfish ambition, self righteousness and superiority. It seems they thought they could earn their way to eternal life and special favor with God while in reality Jesus showed them they had missed the mark entirely. Obviously they thought they knew it all and failed to see that the “fulfillment walked among them”. There was no room in their hearts for anything other than themselves.

    The scripture references you mentioned in Matthew show us do we really have the attitudes of Christ, in Galatians are we allowing the fruit of the Spirit to manifest itself within our hearts and do we use the wisdom from God mentioned in James to walk this walk. These scriptures are very good barometers to look within to see how much of Christ rules in our hearts and minds or how much of selfish ambition, self righteousness and superiority guide us. Only through looking within do we get a good perspective of where our heart truly is.

  7. agapelife says:

    I have been reading “ I Been Thinking” for years now.
    I can’t count how many times this posting has blessed me.
    How many times it has made me think, and most important
    Take a good look at my motives of why I do things and why I believe.

    Steve really liked what you wrote.

    However I don’t want to address this one particular article as I do
    My own I been thinking’ and this has been on my mind a lot.

    I have not been schooled in any Bible school, however I have had some great mentors who have, and they have discipled me. This I truly am grateful to God or Farther and Savior.

    To all who read, and especially to you Maart.

    I am troubled by what I read and hear and see any more in the church, some of the questions that are put forth here.

    Here is what I see, Yes Jesus said He came to full fill the law, but didn’t he also say he did not come to abolish the law? Which law are we talking about? The law that man set up so we couldn’t come close to breaking the Law God set up, or God’s Law, to love Him more then in other thing, including ourselves, our family, our friends, things, and even or life. THIS IS TO ME THE KEY

    Is this not how the mighty men of the Bible lived, where not the prophets who told to truth no matter how angry those in charge or angry the crowd got. Did not forsake public opinion for God’s Truth

    Isn’t the second greatest law that we are to love others more then ourselves? This love is not mushy love, but tough. Jesus talked about love he also talked tough about living according to God’ will, Living according to His word, not the translation and twisting of word as Satan did in the garden, then again as he tempted Jesus.
    Did he not rebuke them about divorce, where man changed it to suit there life style, didn’t Jesus say that it was wrong and even went further to talk about the very attitude of our heart

    Must we not be careful to do according to all that He ask. Must I not share in love, grace to brother that he is living against the will of God. Or do the political correct thing not say anything a lest I offend or hurt his feelings.

    There is more I want to say, but this is to long already…. I hope someone gets what my heart is trying to say. Not sacrifices, but a true broken and contrite heart

  8. rokdude5 says:

    Ive been wrestling with this issue for a good couple of years now. I know I cant be so dogmatic that we would think of closing down on the Sabbath prisons, hospitals, or any other business or entities that operate on a 24/7 basis.

    But what comes to my mind, is what Jesus said in John 14:15…”If you love me, keep my commandments.” He didnt add, “BTW, you can skip Commandment #4.” So what am I to do to keep this commandment?

    I could avoid buying anything that day, avoid yard work and “honey-do’s” (yippee!), dont practice my music but knowing my wife, she will still do laundry, yard work (its a labor of love for her)and make dinner and I ll end up in the dog house.

    Here is another thing Im wrestling with. God told us that He created the Heaven and Earth and all thats in them in 6 days. He rested on the 7th day but He MADE it Holy. So in my mind, there is a distinction between making and laboring…hmmm…what could that be? RJ

  9. poohpity says:

    This is my understanding of the Sabbath and the implication of what Jesus was saying. Yes God created a day to rest from labor in that it was to benefit man not God but to not do something to help another human being would be taking the law to a level that it was not intended. To walk past someone laying on the side of the road injured and not helping them because it is your sabbath day would that not be taking it to an extreme and not loving that person as one would love their self. Or a neighbor’s cat is stuck in a tree and you say you will have to find someone else to help you because today is my sabbath.

  10. Oluwatunmise says:

    our intention matters when it comes to doing things, that is what the religious leaders during Jesus time failed to understand,Jesus had to correct them because they so much care about not breaking any of the moses law and thereby neglecting the golden law which put needs of others even before our own. i just pray that God will open our eyes to the truth of His words. Amen

  11. saled says:

    “People were not made for the sabbath, but the sabbath was made for people.” Yes, I think this is one of the most helpful perspectives in the Bible. I know Mart did not intend to limit the conversation to the sabbath, but it is a good illustration.

    God intended the sabbath to be a blessing for us, not a rule to keep in our effort to lead a good life. Somewhere recently I came across the idea that the sabbath was meant for reflection, a time to stop and look at what we had been doing and assessing the results. After the creation, the Bible says that God stopped and looked at what he had made, and saw that it was good. How many of us take time anymore to stop and think about how we spend our days and ask ourselves if the result of our labor is good?

    On a practical level, this summer I hope to put this principle into practice concerning my garden. On Sundays I am tempted to be out there digging another raised bed or planting or weeding. But what if instead I take the time to reflect on what I have done, and ask God his opinion of it, and recognize the fact that without him, none of my plans will come to pass. Yes, the sabbath was meant to be a blessing to us, and to our own detriment, we have turned it into just another day of frenzied activity.

  12. sbrewster says:

    Mart wrote

    ” By watching very carefully how he interacts with both “insiders” and “outsiders”– all of whom he died for–  can’t we see why he is the ultimate example of “tough love” with Pharisees…and the ultimate example of patience and gentleness with those who had lost their way.

    Don’t the words and example of our Lord give us good reason to think about what each situation requires in order to show the attitudes of Christ (Matt 5:1-12), the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), and the marks of real wisdom (James 3:13-17)?”

    Yes and thank you for reminding us that we are to measure our response to every person and every situation as he did, but we can only do this as we embody Him and walk in the Spirit. We can’t go about it with head-knowledge. It takes true commuion with God and a peeling away of self. In order to respond as Jesus would we have to be able to see as He sees…in the Spirit not through academic or intellectual means. Not with logic but with faith.

    There are times when I wonder what would Jesus say to us. Do we yet understand? Do we get it? What veil would he lift from our eyes?

  13. foreverblessed says:

    sbrewster, .. do we get it what Jesus has to say to me..
    It took me years to get it, and still does take time.
    The concern agapelife stated kept me standing on the sideline, the fear of not giving myself totally over to Jesus, because I might break the law!
    If we humbly and with a contrite heart follow Jesus we will not break the 10 commandments!
    I pray with Oluwatunmise that our hearts are open to what God has to say to us.
    The matter is, that it took me years and years to get over the legalistic mentality: I want to obey God’s laws. I read what His commandments are, and I can make a decision to follow them.
    You see, I am still in charge of my life, even if they are in God’s commandments,
    That is not what God wanted:
    He wants our hearts, He wants us to be His children. He wants us to be connecte to Him through Jesus, like the branches to the vine. John 10:10, 15:1-17

    And Jesus was having such difficulty with the Pharisees: they always wanted to know the law.
    What is good and what is evil.
    We are still looking at the tree of good and evil,
    while God wants us to eat from the trea of Life.
    And the Life is in His Son.
    We need the law to bring us to Christ, when we have come to Christ, we must not look any longer to the law as our guiding line, but to Jesus. (I do not say that we can brake the law, but isn’t 10 lines not easy to remember: I will not mureder, I will not steal will not lie, will not fornicate, will not desire what belongs to others, the first commandment : love God with all I am, is impossible to keep by myself anyway, I need Him to do that in me Exodus 20)
    But Jesus wants to take our lifes to a higher level, His level:
    Just look up to Him! Search more who He is, get more knowledge about Him, 1 Peter 3:18 and youy will also grow in grace, because Jesus is full of grace to all people, the broken the shattered.
    We will learn people in perspective, how to treat them, how to love them, like Jesus did.
    Some call it the Spiritual Law, but then we still regard it as Law, while it is LIFE.

    O look up, do not be avraid you will break the 10 commandments, but lift up your eyes to Jesus:
    Ephesians 1:17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of Wisdom and revelation, so that you may know Him better, 18 I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which He has called you, the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints, and the incomparable great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of His mighty strength,
    read it on to verses 23
    He wants us to share in His glory, and what do we christians do?
    We still look if everybody keeps the 10 commandments,
    I wish I could beg you,
    Lift up your eyes much much higher then that, you will not break the 10 commandments when you follow Jesus, but will see His glory, His mercy, His grace, and
    and we will grow more humble and meek, because the more we see Him the more we soo how we deviate in our natural state from Him. (as someone here stated Tolstoy who said that)
    And hopefully we will be a diffrent people, who, instead of our fingers pointing that the law of God is being broken, who can pray for the sick, and the shattered, and the lost, and His power will be healing to them through us!

  14. foreverblessed says:

    What saled wants to do on the sabbath, I want to do now everyday, lift my eyes to Jesus, and that takes some disciplining of my thoughts, they keep wandering of to the cares of this world. I want to do that more and more during the day, so as to grow in His life. I think with all my heart that that is what God intended with the sabbath rest, that we would come to rest from our own works, and have his Life flow through us. (Hebrews 4:9-10)
    When I concentrate on Jesus, on that moment His life flows through me, since I train myself in this way, I do sense His peace, and His rest coming in me.
    Disturbing voices in my head are quieted.
    It slowly changes me, not as in a miracle, like a mgic wand, but slowly softens my heart, bit by bit. And I grow more mercifull to difficult people around me, (slowly, by missing patience and getting upset, to finding His rest and start again)
    put them in perspective, in Jesus love.
    And so I have fulfilled the 4th commandment.
    But if anyone wants to keep a day, let him do that, do that unto the Lord Romans 14:5

  15. SFDBWV says:

    “We are now in deep and dangerous water”

    What happens here is the open door to deciding what laws do and don’t matter. How do we base this?

    The issue of what non-Jews who became followers of Christ was the first big disagreement between the Disciples.

    Acts 15:20,28,29…”For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us to, lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.”

    These verses remove from all gentile believers the Mosaic laws except for the few items mentioned.

    Why do we pick up laws from the Books of Moses now and try to live by them?

    Weren’t we excused from them here by the Holy Ghost? All of them?

    If our hearts are in line with Christ, we will not violate the peace and security of any other human being. By this I mean we would not steal from another or lie to another or cheat another or sleep with their spouse, or murder them, and so forth.

    These kinds of *laws* are written on our hearts as being proper or improper behavior with each other.

    The comments from Jesus Himself resonate with the understanding that if we love others as He loves us, or as we want to be loved, then no laws either from the scripture or from man are being broken.

    I should also explain that these *laws* the disciples put on the gentile were in response to the gentile practices of idol worship.

    Steve

  16. SFDBWV says:

    As I read over the letters of Paul as well as the other disciples it becomes apparent to me that on many occations they were addressing Jews who were brought up under the law.

    The obstacle being convincing these Jewish people that all of the laws written by Moses, the very written record of how and why they were seperated out of the world to become a special people…everything they knew and believed, was now somehow completed in this man known as Jesus of Nazareth…their promised Messiah.

    This requires a great deal of explanation and foundation. The scriptures of the New Testement are filled with this convincing and use of Jewish tradition and example so as to *reach* thoes who understand the law to *see* how it all connects together and comes together in the person of Jesus Christ.

    All done at the same time, teaching non Jews, how they are to now live as followers of this same Jesus Christ.

    The common understanding of *love* being the one thing that binds us all together, true love, is explained there in the teaching and words from Jesus and then from others by the Holy Spirit, which is still from the same source…God.

    Steve

  17. phpatato says:

    Off topic but

    I just wanted to wish any fellow Canadian on BeenThinking a Happy Canada Day! May the Lord continue to bless this great country of ours. Remember our leaders in prayer.

    And in case I miss being able to log on….Happy 4th of July to my Neighbours to the South. God bless each of you in whatever you have planned.

  18. SFDBWV says:

    Happy Canada day to you also Pat. Thank you as well for the 4th of July sentiments.

    I wonder if there will be a day we can name to celebrate the hour of Christ’s return?

    Looking forward to that day with mixed emotions…The Great and Terrible Day of the Lord.

    Steve

  19. SFDBWV says:

    Mart, I hope you appriciate the fact that of the three points you referenced concerning people being more important than….All three have gotten me in trouble in every application your mentioned, at some point in my life.

    The first point concerning people being more improtant than the laws of our society, reminded me of John Brown and his wayward attempt to free the slaves…His son died of gunshot wounds and he was hung. By a government that upheld its right to enslave a people.

    Today we have people who stand silently protesting outside abortion clinics, arrested and fined by a government that upholds it right to offer abortion on demand to its citizens.

    It frightens me to think of what tomorrows citizens will be arrested for.

    The second point you referenced concerning the workplace, is why we have unions. Like them or not, it is the unions who fought for the individuals right to a safe workplace….not the law of the land.

    The third point concerning doctrines,programs and authority. We all have stories of wrong doings from even these *sacred* institutions. Wrong is wrong where ever it is found.

    Hebrews 13:1 ” Let Brotherly love continue…”:8 “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever.”

    Steve

  20. saled says:

    “People are more important than the processes and policies of our workplace.” This can get very sticky.

    An elderly widow is out of propane for her heater and her home is cold. It’s January in Maine. The delivery driver knows how to start her heater, but it’s against company policy for him to do it. Policy says that it must be a service technician, and he is busy somewhere else. Is this a safety issue? A percentage of the time, yes. Usually, no. Should the delivery driver light her heater?

    A truck carrying hazardous materials has crashed and the cab is on fire. The policy of the fire department is to stand back 250 feet until the foam truck gets there. The driver is still in the cab. Should the first firefighters on the scene depart from policy?

    Policy at a fast food restaurant is that all food left at the end of the day must be thrown away. The person closing the store knows of homeless people downtown who could use it. Should the food be thrown away?

    Yes, this is a sticky question.

  21. Cucch says:

    Wow…y’all are going to get a migraine with all the spiritual gymnastics. I mean no disrespect to anyone, but to me it seems that we Christians want to over complicate everything.
    Saled, I appreciate your references to the gray areas, but in my view it’s pretty simple and really not all that sticky; you just do the right thing. You do as you would have others do unto you. In each case you mentioned, the policy goes out the window.
    Grace and Peace

  22. Regina says:

    Good Evening All,

    Mart – In response to your first three questions,

    In light of what Jesus said, can we then say that:
    1.People are more important than the laws of our society?
    2.People are more important than the processes and policies of our work places?
    3.People are more important than church doctrine, programs, and authority?

    the answer is “yes.” Jesus’ willingness to heal people and show compassion towards them when the “Sabbath laws” required Him to do otherwise was an affirmation of questions 1-3.

    Jesus taught us by His words and actions that meeting the needs of “broken, ignorant, lost people” is more important to Him than the rigid enforcement of Sabbath laws and customs.

    So glad that Jesus took the time to teach us how we should treat our neighbor. As believers, we want to please Him by obeying His commandments, and it’s so good to know that He wants us to show love, compassion, understanding, and sincere concern for people; that He is more pleased when we do our best to meet the needs of people.

    He wants us to help people (our neighbor) understand and receive the “whole counsel of God.” To understand His commandments as well as His unfathomable “love” for them. Remember discussing a similar topic (slippery slope) awhile back.

    Jesus (desparately) desired to change the hearts and minds of the Pharisees and all who opposed Him. He tried to show and prove to them that there was a more excellent way of living than strict adherence to Sabbath laws–to love your neighbor as yourself.

    1 Cor. 12:31, AMP
    But earnestly desire and zealously cultivate the greatest and best gifts and graces (the higher gifts and the choicest graces). *And yet I will show you a still more excellent way [one that is better by far and the highest of them all–love].

    You also asked, “Don’t the words and example of our Lord give us good reason to think about what each situation requires in order to show the attitudes of Christ (Matt 5:1-12), the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), and the marks of real wisdom (James 3:13-17)?”

    The answer is “yes.” Jesus definitely set a good example for us in word and deed regarding how we (as believers) should respond to people, circumstances and situations in our lives. He was extremely passionate about meeting the needs of people even in the face of severe opposition and persecution.

    I want my words and actions to mirror what Jesus would do in any situation. I want to be a vessel that He can use to His glory and honor.

    Blessings,

  23. Mart De Haan says:

    Good discussion!

    Yeh, Steve, I think this is what Jesus teaches in his “Sermon on the Mount”. When we express his attitudes, we may be loved by some– and hated by others (Matt 5:9-10).

  24. Mart De Haan says:

    Read the other day about a brain cancer patient who was let go from a major company because a routine blood test revealed that he was using “medical marijuana” to control his pain and nausea. The report didn’t indicate anyone had accused him of being intoxicated on the job– or that he had broken the law of his state– only that he, unfortunately, had violated a policy of his company.

    I don’t want to be judge and jury in this case since the whole story probably isn’t on the table. But it seemed to be an example that reminds me that,

    In trying to be right, sometimes…
    We value the law of marriage more than spouses who are being treated worse than an animal.
    We value the law of gentleness, and kindness, more than those who come to us crazed with anger or despair because of something bad that has happened to them.
    We value the law of organizational chain of command more than the whistle-blowers who are being threatened by that chain.

  25. pegramsdell says:

    Like the driver’s license issue here where I live. A lady who is in her 60’s and has had a license for a long time is denied because her marriage license does not have an original seal on it. She has requested the original from Ga. where she got married, but they have not sent it yet. This has been going on for 10 weeks and now her license is expired. She has all of the other id’s they have asked for. And a copy of her marriage license. She has utilities bills with her name on it, but still, they won’t renew her. Everything by the book, nothing personal.

  26. SFDBWV says:

    Marijuana….The Union Army planted hemp all along the banks of the Potomac River during the Civil War. The original idea, we are told, was to make rope.

    Have you ever noticed how many pictures of Union soldiers were shown smoking a pipe…

    No one knew this was a bad thing here as it grew wild everywhere until the government outlawed it. I knew plenty an old man or woman who enjoyed it as a free source of tobacco.

    I am not an advocate for the use of any drug, but people will abuse anything that comes into their hands.

    Make all the laws or rules you want to in our land, people will find a way to get what they want, and there are plenty of people ready to get it for them.

    I don’t recall of any incident where a whistle blower wasn’t punished for their disclosures. Especially by our own government.

    I don’t think seeing right and wrong is difficult at all. The difficulty is having the courage to do the right thing in the face of being ostracized by others, or indangering yourself for the benifit of another.

    I just read a few days ago where a fellow was killed by another when he came to the aid of his neighbors being attacked and killed by the same assailant.

    How many of us would put our job on the line for another?

    Working in the coal mines as I have, I seen plenty of men who did just that. Having realized that standing together for right over wrong, will most often win the day. But not always.

    Just thoughts and memories

    Steve

  27. poohpity says:

    I think for me a lot of times things are just not any of my business. Offering my opinion does not really help anything even if I think it may help others. Half the time not walking in another’s shoes leaves me at a disadvantage to say what is right or wrong for them and I can not see what is truly in their heart.

  28. scout1 says:

    There are many times that I did what I thought was “right” and helpful -only to be rejected and betrayed. I think that it is hard to do what the Lord would have you do.

    To know the difference between what the Lord wants you to step up and speak or do -and when it’s time to sit and be silent -needs much wisdom and discernment. There are Bible stories that show both examples.

    Mart, if I may leave the subject, I’ve been watching some of the videos that you and Jimmy have made. I really like them. Have you ever done one about the celebrations and customs of the Jewish people and the symbolism behind them?? It seem like there are so many that it would be nice to have them explained in one video. I would also like to say that I can see a very gentle and kind Spirit when you and Jimmy talk about the Lord. Thank you for the Day of Discovery shows!

    Lynda

  29. davids says:

    We know that early Christians in Judea and other parts of the Roman Empire had to work on the Sabbath, which at that time was Saturday, not Sunday as later determined by some Christians.

    Unlike the Jews, who treated only the Sabbath as holy and appropriate to God’s work, we should view every day as holy.

    We are told to respect authority since they are there by God’s will, and so we should. But we should always be willing to put above that the love for God and love of others. This guiding star will get us through the legalities of governmental and religious authorities, if we are courageous and willing to live with the consequences.

  30. poohpity says:

    You know many times I have seen people violated in the name of church doctrine, tradition or bible law to where if I had not known any better it would have totally pushed me away from what I truly needed, the love of God. I still have to be very careful even today after knowing the bible to want to be part of the “Christian Culture” because it makes my stomach turn the hurt that is caused by those who put the laws over the care of a person. I do not think that people really do it intentionally every time but I sure do wonder where their hearts truly are.

  31. rxman says:

    Was reading about the disciples in a book written by Miller on church history. He talks about one of the disciples hearing of a former convert to Christianity that had returned to his former ways and had become a robber. This disciple loved this convert so much that he sought him out and wouldn’t leave him until he could convince him to leave his sinful life. The convert was so touched he came back to fellowship with other converts.

    In a nutshell, I think this was what Jesus was saying to the Pharisees. They were so concerned about rules and regulations that they forgot about the people. I believe it comes down each of us loving each other that it physically pains us to see others not believing Jesus as our Lord and Savior or a believer “backsliding”. It causes us to pursue that person as if there life depended on it. God puts people in our lives and it is up to us to pursue that person that the Holy Spirit convicts us of.

  32. Regina says:

    Good Evening All,

    I’ve enjoyed reading all of the comments on this blog topic, and, as Mart said, this really has been a great discussion. Some of the comments in this blog have afforded me a better understanding of some of the challenges that believers are facing as they strive to love those who have a greater concern about laws, policies, etc. than their well-being or the well-being of others they’re trying to help.

    Was thinking that “unbelievers” are faced with some (or all) of the same issues and problems. They value morality, integrity, fairness and justice but are being taken advantage of by family members, friends, co-workers, etc. A question came to my mind, Does God count it as righteousness when unsaved persons choose to do the right thing in the face of adversity and persecution? I think the answer is “yes” because the Bible says we reap what we sow (Gal. 6:7).

    I know that believers make bad choices too, but their relationship with Christ and submission to the will of the Holy Spirit should be the catalyst that stirs repentance in their hearts and a desire to right wrongs. 1 John 1:9, NIV, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.”

    Off topic here… just want to wish everyone a Happy Fourth of July, and Happy Canada Day to the Canadian bloggers (thanks for info. on Canada Day Phpatato)! I hope you all will have an opportunity to enjoy good food, family fellowship and fun! :-)

    Blessings,

  33. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Hi everyone,
    I have been reading all the comments and would say peoples needs should always come before the Law or man made traditions.
    I have always given of my best at work etc. but have never been able to please my boses, often ending in loosing my job. I tend to put the customers need above the wishes of the boss thus they think I am not “obeying” them. Often the result of my “careing” for the customer results in more business, but that does not get seen.
    Fortunately with God He gave us Jesus as an example to follow and He always put the need of the person first whilst being able to fulfill His Fathers wishes. I am thinking of Lazarus and the pain Jesus felt because He tallied to be about His Fathers business and was too late to prevent His friends from grieving but was able to redress the situation in the end.
    It seem we must always be in the Fathers will and all will become plain to us and if we have to “bend the rules” to achieve what God said we should do, then that is ok.

    Deb, you supprised me when you said:
    “I still have to be very careful even today after knowing the bible to want to be part of the “Christian Culture” because it makes my stomach turn the hurt that is caused by those who put the laws over the care of a person.”
    I to have always had trouble with the so called “Christian Culture” and find allot of what goes on in church very clubby and patronising and is not actual love.

    We don’t have a proper national day of celibration, but I wish all of you in Canada and the USA a joyfull day.
    I used to work for Chase Manhattan Bank at their European Data Centre and HQ in Bournemouth and they used to throw huge barbeques on or near July 4th so I can apprecieate the fun.

    Bob

  34. SFDBWV says:

    Because I have lived a fairly full life, I could give plenty of examples here of wrongs visited upon people, in the work place, or in courts and yes especialy in church.

    But I won’t.

    Even the pharisee’s among us need our love and example.

    Life itself has handed people unfairness. We all know plenty of people who are living in poverty, or with disabilities, or with a long list of burdens that seem as an injustuce.

    It would appear that God Himself has placed upon these people the sufferings they endure….Aren’t people more important to God then that?

    God is God and will do as He sees best. Who am I to question a single event I have seen or even must endure myself. That appears to be from God.

    So, since I can only be responsible for my own actions, I will do my best to make another persons life a little better. How ever I can, when ever I can.

    Always leave another with the idea that they were glad they had the opportunity to talk with you. As if this may be the last time they see you.

    So it begins with me, to make certain that I always treat others fairly and that their needs may come ahead of rules in what ever circumstance I find myself in.
    I say may, because each situation will be different and need to be seen in fulness with reguards to the effects on others.

    Steve

  35. davids says:

    Steve, I love reading encouraging thoughts like these from fellow Christians. Thanks.

    Deb, I understand what you are saying completely. Not raised a Christian, I was somehow drawn to attend a large Southern Baptist university in Texas. What I experienced there was a Pharisee-like combination of legalistic religion, ungracious behavior, and a smug assurance of God’s approval. It put me of of Christianity for about 20 years. Only by His grace did I finally find the way.

  36. Regina says:

    Good Evening All,

    Off topic here… but I just want to sing the praises of today’s ODB devotional, “A Snail’s Pace.” I really enjoyed reading it this morning because Today’s Bible Reading really blessed me, and I love certain insects; snails are in the top 10! lol! Like Dennis Fisher, I, too, was fascinated by them as a little girl. Also, when I read Charles Spurgeon’s observation that, “by perseverance the snail reached the ark,” a question came to mind, Did Noah have to care for insects too? I started thinking about insects that I don’t like… roaches, flies, mosquitoes, etc. Don’t care for rats either. Can’t imagine having to care for animals and insects. Pretty sure that everyone on the ark had to help take care of the animals. Glad Noah had some help. So, if you get an opportunity, take a moment and read it today. I hope you’ll enjoy it as much as I did.

    Mart – Like Lynda, I, too, would like to thank you for all of the spiritual encouragement and enrichment that I’ve received from RBC Ministries. Can’t remember when I became a friend and partner, but I’m SO GLAD that I did! :-) May God bless you exceeding abundantly above all that you could ask or think as a reward for your sincere love for the body of Christ. Your tireless work for the sake of the gospel reminds me of this Bible verse:

    Colossians 3:17, NIV
    And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

    Blessings,

  37. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Steve,
    I want to thank you for your last comments above, especially the middle paragraph:

    “God is God and will do as He sees best. Who am I to question a single event I have seen or even must endure myself. That appears to be from God.

    **So, since I can only be responsible for my own actions, I will do my best to make another persons life a little better. How ever I can, when ever I can.**

    Always leave another with the idea that they were glad they had the opportunity to talk with you. As if this may be the last time they see you.”

    I have been going through a tough emotional time just of late and was chatting to God about it this morning before I read the blog and I was reminded of when I gave away £9,000 to my then partner 10 years ago and have no recourse to get it back as it was invested in a property etc. so now is worth 3 times as much.
    I felt the thought may have come from satan as it made me angst so I gave it to God.
    Then I read your quote above and felt at peace as I was responsible for this action and need to love my friend and not get angry with him.
    There is more to this that I will share later in a different place. But thanks for your God given understanding of Life.

    Bob

  38. SFDBWV says:

    I am very humbled that you were blessed by any thing I have said Bob. The Lord is faithful and is always there within our hearts. He bears witness of Himself, and so recognizes His own Spirit when seen or heard in others.

    You are a very special person Bob, to the friends you have made in life, here on the blog, and especially to God.

    It is my prayer that the wrongs done unto you are turned from anger to pity, for thoes whom have wronged you. For unless they see the err of their ways, repent, and make atonement, where they can, theirs’ is a dark future.

    I hope it is as beautiful a day there in Cornwall, Bob, as it is here in Bayard.

    Steve

  39. SFDBWV says:

    Happy Fourth of July to all. Praying for revival in our land.

    Steve

  40. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Very quiet on here!
    Me thinks the Independence day celebrations went too well?

    Well the Empire strikes back and hopes you all had a great time.

    I had a good day yesterday and discovered why I have been going through a bad emotional patch lately. My boss at work, a woman, found out her ex partner had been cheating on her and I was immediately able to empathise with her and we gave each other a big hug and shared a few things.
    Because I was going through similar I was able to bring her comfort. More akin to the last topic of “Unwanted Opportunity” but nevertheless shows how people come first with God.

    Also I had a recurring dream last night where I am in a village and they are getting near to uncovering remains of a body/arm or body part etc.
    I see them getting closer and closer to the place where it is burried and I feel great fear at being discovered, but have no memory of commiting murder but know I will be found out.
    Maybe I have some hidden guilt that God wants to shine His light on, but please pray I may find out what it is.

    Bob

  41. foreverblessed says:

    Thanks all for sharing.
    Bob, about your dcream, My first thought when I read it, was: Bob is really scared to find out what terrible thing he did in the way past. But do not be afraid, the truth will set you free.
    You always say: Look to Jesus, Lift Him up. So I pray you will also do this now, and give your dream to Him. If He does not give light on them. Then regard the dream as not from Him.

    (I share a dream in the topic endtime angst, 2 topics ahead of this one, maybe that will help you put a light on your dream)

  42. foreverblessed says:

    Bob, I really like your comment on Jesus, who did not go to Lazarus immediately. This shows that Jesus did listen to the Father more then filling the direct needs of people around Him.
    That’s why we do not follow a set of rules, but we follow Jesus, and listen to His voice. What does He say to us? John 10:4 and His sheep follow Him, because they know His voice.
    What does He say to us, help the other, or wait a while, and just pray for the other? We can decide it for ourselves or lay it before God and ask Him to lead us.

  43. foreverblessed says:

    Regina, your devotional from last week was from Joyce Meyer. This morning I started to look for a book from her, the battlefield of the mind, I open it and read this:
    “A Sabbath rest:
    Hebrews 4:11
    If you read thie entire fourth chapter of the book of Hebrews, you will find it is speaking about a sabbath rest that is available to God’s people. Under the Old Covenant, the Sabbath wasobserved as a day of rest. Under the New Covenant, this sabbath rest spoken of is a spiritual place of rest. It is the privilege of every believer to refuse to worry or have anxiety. As believers, you and I, can enter the rest of God.
    Careful examination of Hebrews 4:11 reveals that we wil never enter that rest except through believing, and we will forfeit it through unbelief and disobedience. Unbelief will keep us in “wilderness living” but Jesus has provided a permanent place of rest, that can be inhabited only through living in faith.”
    And then she goes on with:
    Living from faith to faith, Romans 1:17

    So this living in faith, brings with it, that in faith we rest in Him, sitting at His side getting to know Him better. Till we hear His voice speaking to us, and we will do what He says.
    And it is not us, who think and rethink, considering all kind of scriptures, and then decide ourselves what to do.

  44. SFDBWV says:

    Well done Bob, There is something wonderful about a shoulder to cry on, a hug, a simple hand shake or touch from another person….it has healing power, for both the giver and reciever.

    To provide a sympathetic ear, to listen to anothers pain, without judgement, just a friendly smile.

    It is the face and actions of Christ.

    Dreams….Some dreams are just too much TV, or the attempt to problem solve within our relaxed mind. While others are at times supernatural and something God is making you aware of.

    Pray on the matter Bob, God will be faithful to aid you in your quest for discovery.

    Another beautiful morning in the mountains of West Virginia.

    Steve

  45. sbrewster says:

    Hello All,

    I have nothing to add as you always do so an excellent job illuminating the topics. I’ve really enjoyed reading all your posts. Steve your July 3, 6:60am really resonated with my spirit and pretty much summed it up for me. There are no guarantees that doing the right thing – putting people before laws and policies – will be rewarded in this life.

  46. Regina says:

    Good Afternoon All,

    foreverblessed – Thank you for sharing an excerpt from Joyce Meyer’s book, The Battlefield of the Mind. Would love to have that book in my own library! :-) I hope it’s a source of spiritual enlightenment and encourgement for you. Joyce Meyer is an anointed author, and she’s definitely using her gift and wisdom to empower other believers and bring more souls into the kingdom of God.

    Blessings,

  47. Regina says:

    Steve – There’s so much truth in your statement: “…there is something wonderful about a shoulder to cry on, a hug, a simple hand shake or touch from another person….it has healing power, for both the giver and reciever. To provide a sympathetic ear, to listen to anothers pain, without judgement, just a friendly smile. It is the face and actions of Christ.”

    I believe it takes the power of the Holy Spirit for people to care and love on this level, and if everyone in the world desired to love and care for people as you described in your comment, it would as Michael Jackson put it, “heal the world.”

    Want to share a verse of that song:

    Heal the world make it a better place
    For you and for me and the entire human race
    There are people dying if you care enough for the living
    Make a better place for you and for me

    We (your BTA friends) need to join you, Steve, in praying for revival in America (2 Chron. 7:14).

    Bob – So glad you had a healing breakthrough from your emotional discomfort.

    Blessings,

  48. sbrewster says:

    Regina-

    Isn’t it amazing how God can and does use anyone and anything to remind us of what is true and right! I am always amazed when God uses something in the secular realm to minister to me. He’s so awesome (God is). Just today he used a secular documentary on relationships ito open up communication in my own marriage.

    People have so much fear that it can be hard to reach out with a hug or a simple handshake or a warm smile, but it doesn’t take much at all to give if we can but get beyond ourselves.

    I think what Jesus was challenging us with is that it is so much easier to love. It is infinitely easier than keeping laws and abiding by policies. If we could just walk in love would we needs laws at all?

  49. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Good Morning,
    Another great day in west Cornwall.

    Foreverblessed, when I see Jesus with Lazarus and the delay, I beleive God The Father asked Jesus to tally because they were His closest friends.
    Normally Jesus would stop what He was doing to help someone, like with the woman that touched Him, but in this case His human heart must have wanted to “jump in the car” and rush speeding down the motorway to help them. We have all done that!
    But God in His wisdom asked Jesus to wait and greater glory was wrought in Gods name but Jesus had to bear the human pain and wept.

    Steve, thank you for your comment July 5, 2010 at 6:43 am.
    I never really thought about the spiritual side of that hug, but I did find healing in it as did the receiver, my boss, so it is good to give.
    At the risk of taking too much space, I want to share my daily reading from yeterdays UK “Word for Today” it really spoke to me.

    Bob

    In the Refiner’s Fire 05 Jul 2010

    ‘”He will sit like a refiner of silver…”‘ Malachi 3:3

    Are you in the refiner’s fire today? If you are don’t rebel or try to run away, just sit still and let the refiner do His work. The Bible says: ‘He will sit like a refiner of silver, burning away the dross. He will purify [them], refining them like gold and silver, so that they may once again offer acceptable sacrifices to the Lord.’ A woman who read this verse at a Bible study wanted to know how it related to her walk with God, so she made an appointment with the silversmith. Without mentioning anything other than a general interest in the process, she sat and observed him work. She watched as he held the silver over the fire, explaining that in order to burn away every impurity he had to keep it in the middle where it was hottest. She asked him if he usually sat in front of the fire the entire time. ‘Yes,’ he replied, ‘not only do I have to hold it, I must watch it. If I leave it there too long it will be destroyed.’ After thinking about that for awhile she asked, ‘How do you know when the process is complete?’ Smiling, he replied, ‘That’s easy; I see my face reflected in it.’ If you’re in the refiner’s fire today, remember: a) He knows what He’s doing, so trust Him b) He won’t allow you to be destroyed by the circumstances, or take His eye off you c) when the process is complete, you’ll be more like Jesus and less like your old self. Isn’t that what you want? Isn’t that what you’ve prayed for?

  50. Regina says:

    Good Evening All,

    sbrewster – You’re right! It’s amazing when God uses something secular to help us understand something spiritual! :-)

    Bob (Cornwall) – Your “Word for Today” reminds me of something I heard a pastor say last week. I shared it in the blog, “Unwanted Opportunity.” It’s the last comment.

    Blessings,

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