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What if We’re Wrong?

In many ways, followers of Christ emphasize the importance of being right—even to a fault.

But there is at least one area in which this pattern doesn’t seem to hold.

Although there are more options, let’s consider three approaches to the way we view the prophetic teaching of Scripture:

The first group is inclined to take a “I think ‘this’ (a current event) may be ‘that’” (in the sense of a specific event prophesied by Scripture). Such persons might send e-mails, talk to friends, and express openly that they think they might be seeing prophecy fulfilled. They admittedly and openly indulge in some speculation. This group also is trying to model all that a follower of Christ should be. From the heart they want to be ready for his return.

A second group believes that prophecy will be fulfilled, and that Christ could come at any time, but does not make an attempt to connect the dots between a “this” and a “that”. They also want to live from their hearts as real followers of Jesus.

A third group believes Christ will return, but probably not in their lifetime, and plan to, at some point later in life, get serious about making their peace with God.

Now, in order of consequences, where are the degrees of danger—if a group is wrong? My guess is that all of us would say the third group is taking the greatest risks (forgetting that time can harden hearts, and that there might not be a “later”). But which group might have the second biggest blind spot? What could the potential consequences be? Do we have any history on this?

Would love to hear some discussion on this. If we see ourselves in any of these three groups, what if we’re wrong?


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58 Responses to “What if We’re Wrong?”

  1. scout1 says:

    Mart –

    You forgot about us in group 4: one day at a time -group!

    Or group: I’m waiting, trusting and watching? Then there is the group: How can I know the mind of God?

    Thank you for your thoughts and this blog. I enjoy seeing every couple of days as the topic changes, what thoughts you have for us to talk about. :)

    Good One . . .
    Me

  2. SFDBWV says:

    What if we’re wrong?????

    Doubts create anxiety, Jesus told us not tbe anxious for anything, noting that God would take care of our every need. One of our every needs is peace about the Word of God.

    No one can read the Bible without understanding the fact that there is prophesy writen and hidden all throughout scripture. Can something that occurs all throughout the Bible be dismissed or ignored?

    Is it not our responsibility to attempt to understand what God is saying to us, through His Prophets?

    It is very well understood that Jesus rebuked the elders of Israel for not realizing the day of their deliverence and recognizing prophesy fulfilled right before their eyes.

    Only when people step outside of writen prophesy and attempt to add to what God said, or speculate is there the danger of being wrong.

    The most famous of all events is the return of Christ, He Himself delivered a long explanation of the natural, political, and personality of the future time that would be a signal of the approaching hour of His return.

    However He witheld the very year, month, day and moment of when that time would be….Why?

    It is because He wants us to live as if each tick and tock of the clock were our last moments before He returns…

    Annoyed, Jesus told the Pharisees and Sadducees, how come it is you can tell what the weather is going to be but you can’t see the signs of the times. Matthew 16:3

    They were supposed to understand prophesy and when it unfolded see it for what it was foretold to be…They were, as are we, held accountable to know prophesy.

    Are we like the hypocrites Jesus rebuked? We claim to have within our hearts the very presence of God, and this same Holy Spirit willing to lead us into all truths. Whoes voice then are we listening to that emanates from our heart? The Holy one would not lead us astray… but there is one who wants to.

    We cannot be like the reed shaken with the wind (Luke 7:24)or as the children tossed about by every wind of doctrine (Ephesians 4:14)but we must testify in the Lord (Eph 4:17).

    The pilot light of behavior is always *Love*, If every action of our doing is presented in love than what have we to fear?

    We were warned of false doctrine (2 Peter 2:…) But the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation (2Peter 2:9 ).

    Where do we find the truth of prophesy? Right there in the pages of the living Word of God, with study meditation and conformation from the Holy Spirit….

    Once you learn, do not be decieved nor misled by thoes who would rob your faith and steal your joy.

    If you are worried about being wrong about prohesy, then keep what you think to yourself. Unless the unction of God wants you to share what you know for the enlightenment and peace of others.

    Have peace, with Christ.

    Steve

  3. annalisa says:

    Hi Mart,
    I so enjoy reading your deeper thought provoking blog (it allows me to expand on my Christian walk!)Regarding todays post of the 3 group type approaches to scripture teachings:

    Although Group 1 type may find this interesting to recognize the unfolding of the prophecy…its irrelevant to a true believer (except for the purpose of discernment).

    The 2nd group needn’t worry because living from their hearts for the Lord IS being prepared! (And in response to your viewer comment about “one day at a time” we all are living one day at a time whether or not one believes that is their own distortion or not) The 3rd group has already missed the boat…they are NOT prepared…their consequences are huge.

    If all are wrong, group 1 & 2 still have eternal salvation since they believe the prophecy will be fulfilled and only God can make that value call between 1 & 2; if there is one. Therefore group 3 I believe is in the greatest danger.

  4. Mart De Haan says:

    Paula, I think so :-)

  5. poohpity says:

    Group three is at high risk because they may never have salvation until they are done with the things of this life which may be never.

    Group one seems to have salvation but is willing to lead people into the unknown by spreading suppositions or hunches that may or may not be truth. Deception will grow like wild fire but they may still not know the meaning of the scriptures.

    Group two also seems to have salvation but also does not have insight to the scripture and can be deceived.

    The group that would be nice to be part of would be the ones who have salvation and are about doing the Lord’s work not being turned to the right or the left regarding the end times realizing that anything after the resurrection is labeled the end times. Not trying to point to anything other than the Lord and the knowing that only God knows when the time is near and is resting and trusting God to care for his own but is spreading the message of salvation to those who may have never heart it. Then they do not have to be concerned about when the end is coming but know that it is and are waiting and living expectantly for it.

    There are 584,000 hits on google with people trying to predict when it will be or past predictions and Jesus said only the Father knows. Matthew 24 is really a good read so we do not worry our minds unless we are worried about the people who have not heard the good news yet.

    I do not think that there is a time when I have not at some point in my walk of faith wondered if I am wrong in believing as I do. But then faith goes on.

  6. SFDBWV says:

    You have to appreciate a “What If” topic. It opens up room for much imagination….

    On the 4th day of creation, God placed the stars in the heavens for *signs*, *seasons*, *days*, and *years*.

    Allow me to present to you a possibility that the original signs and seasons shown in the heavens were in part, the Zodiac. That in the Zodiac, were laid out for all of mankind to see, the seasons of man, from creation to the end. Including the birth and death, and resurection of mankinds savior.

    Allow me to also present to you the possibility that from the fall of man, a coming flood was foretold and warned to the population, but that it was ignored, because there had never been rain seen in the earth before.

    That because only Noah, pure in bloodline, believed God and found grace, because of his faith (Heb 11:7).

    All of mankind perished execpt Noah and his family, because??? God wanted it so, knew it would be so, and no one else believed the warnings….or the signs.

    Oddly enough I read in 2 Peter 3:9 that the Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. oddly because here the return of Christ is being discussed.

    In 2 Peter 3:3,4 we read that in thoes last days, scoffers walking after their own lusts would try and sow doubt concerning Christs return.

    That they are *willingly* ignorant (vs 5). And what are they ignorant of…the Word of God and the heavens of old, and in vs 6, the very story of the flood, whereby all perished.

    “What if We’re Wrong?”….Well I say this,

    What if we are right?

    Steve

  7. marma says:

    I love the occasional what if topic. It does get me thinking!

    The key to Group 1 is “specific event” so, yes, that is the problem. The problem with this group, as I see it, is that their focus is taken off Christ, and that they live from one end times circumstance to the next, if they focus too keenly on specific events.

    Group 2 – while this group isn’t in danger the way one and three are, I wonder if they see indicators or just go with the flow. They can be like frogs in the frying pan, and, as the world slowly deteriorates, get caught in degradation and be ineffective witnesses. Their tolerance for the world can turn into tolerance for sin in their own lives.

    In practice, rather than theory, I know more people at the extremes — Extreme Group 1’s or 3’s.

    A few people I know are Group 2 types but even they like to speculate a little.

    I personally like Steve’s group 4, the one day at a time, group! That’s where I’m at right now.

  8. Regina says:

    Good Afternoon All

    Hope all is well in your lives.

    Computer went down yesterday afternoon, just as I was preparing to comment on the Abbas and Netanyahu blog topic! ..such a bummer! Was so disappointed because it was down for the rest of the day! Oh well, when life hands us lemons…

    Blessings,

  9. bubbles says:

    Could I add another sub-group under group four? I’d like to add group 4B: The “let’s just make it to 10:30 a.m.” group. :)

  10. bubbles says:

    Was there any place in the Bible that Jesus said He wants us to expend vast amounts of energy and effort in looking for ‘signs’ and setting dates for His return? It looks like He would want us to personally be ready for His return, and doing work so others would be prepared also. What good is speculating/setting dates if one does nothing but speculate and look for ‘signs’?

    It is similar to those who look for symbolism in the Bible, and then study many, many years about what they see as ‘symbols’ and how they relate to other happenings in the Bible. Maybe I’m wrong, and maybe there are deeper meanings there, but, I don’t see what good it does to know and study about such things if they are being verbally abusive, yelling, being generally unkind, and not showing love to others–practical Christian living. {rabbit trail}

    But, He also has told us to study to show ourselves approved unto God, a workman that needs not be be ashamed. It looks like those who do know God’s Word would observe things occurring, and recognize that all creation groans for His return. Keeping His return in mind, and reminding each other that He could return at any time gives an urgency to our work or encourages us to do a better job of telling others about our Saviour. We never know when telling someone about Him may be our last opportunity.

  11. Mikek says:

    Another provocative topic.

    It seems to me that since God has taken steps to ensure the preservation of His word and to communicate it’s truth about Himself, His Son, sin, death, eternal life, justification, etc…Why wouldn’t He want to communicate the truth concerning what the future holds? I believe He has and and His followers we are to take the time to learn what that is.

    If we are committed disciples, talmadim of the Lord, our focus will not be squarely on His appearing alone but we will be mindful of it so we are not caught unaware. In the interim, we can do His will, love one another, share the Gospel and live soberly in light of our Lord’s unexpected return.

    One thing we cannot do is throw up our hands and say it is too complicated to learn because that may be a sin suggesting the Holy Spirit hasn’t communicated it clearly or we may be just too lazy to apply ourselves, a sin also. Or perhaps we are cowards, afraid to express what we have learned because others may disagree?

    I know some of my students are more at ease when I say “I don’t know something like the exact age of the earth but they are very uncomfortable when I state “I know what will happen at the end of all things.”

  12. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Good Morning Mart and everyone.

    Not sure which group I would put my self in, probably somewhere between the first or second, but I know I have been in the third “put it off to later” group in the past.

    In reality Jesus said there are only two groups, those waiting with oil in their lamps and those asleep with lamps that are empty.
    That means we must live each day as it comes, one day at a time.
    There are no freezers to store fresh manner(food), we have to collect it daily and just enough for our needs else it will go mouldy.
    So each day we come to God and renew our Spirit(oil) that way we will be ready when He comes.
    In the new testament Paul and others were expecting Christs return in their lifetime, so must we.
    When I first gave my heart to Jesus He told me there and then that “This generation shall not pass away until I come”
    Well I was born in 1953 and Israel became a nation in 1947, so I know He will return in my lifetime.
    And if He doesn’t? then I will be with Him when He comes.
    After reading the “left behind” series of books I kind of want to be left behind to see all the prohecies fulfilled, but Jesus wants His bride with Himself during those hard times because He loves her and wants to keep her safe by His side.

    Bob

  13. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Who are we to argue with the logic and mind of God!

  14. Mart De Haan says:

    Many of us have lived long enough to see what happens when a right anticipation of the return of Christ morphs into speculation, rumor mongering, political entanglements, and false reports.

    In part, because of prophetic excesses and mistakes that have occurred over the last few decades, we now have a generation of young Christians (and older as well) who are increasingly inclined to emphasize care for our neighbor and environment without the necessary awareness of a return that will happen when we do not expect it (as in the days of Noah).

    This leads me to believe that it doesn’t make sense to see prophetic speculation about events associated with the return of Christ as having nothing to do with the wisdom of Christ

    While there’s a time to “not care what others think of us” the New Testament also teaches us that, “for the gospel’s sake”, its important to live in a way that “adorns the doctrine (truth/teachings) of Christ.”

    If we don’t care what out neighbor thinks about us, then we may not care if they see us as confusing fiction with fact, used by political efforts (on either side), misled by disinformation and false flag strategies (from either right or left), and focused primarily on financial and political outcomes… while we try to leave the impression that what we really care about is…

    That’s why I’m inclined to believe that the question “what if we are wrong” isn’t just about us…

  15. SFDBWV says:

    Watched an interesting program on PBS TV this week about the 7 Day Aventists.

    It wasn’t so much a history of their theology but this story actualy began with the “Great Disapointment”.

    Apparently the founder of the faith had reasoned from biblical study the exact date of the rapture of the church.

    His followers threw away money walked away from their farms and animals, shops and businesses and went to a camp site to have a night of worship awaiting the rapture.

    The “Great Disapointment” as it came to be know as, discuraged some but not all, one woman had a series of visions that led to the creation of their paticular brand of health care and the building of hospitals accross the world, to bring full healing to the sick and a healthier life style for the whole of mankind.

    No, you can’t put God in a box, nor force His hand. But good can come out of any situation whereby we put our hope and faith in Christ.

    Just a little story touching our current topic.

    Steve

  16. SFDBWV says:

    Mart, reading your last post, I was spured on to say something about the notion of “what others think”.

    It is a huge step foreward when we say to any other person that we are a Christian.

    For starters, we should now be representitives of Christ. All of our behavior should now be formost in our minds, and especialy as how we demonstrate that to non believers.

    Now non believers will only see us and our behavior as of how we stack up to their understanding of what Christians should be like.

    We are forever under the microscope of scrutiny by everyone, especialy other people who also consider themselves to be representitives of Christ….wanting to make certain we are *right* in our behavior and theology.

    We may try and hide behind an attitude of not caring what others think, but what others think of us is part of how we can demonstrate the life changing power of Christ and present the Gospel.

    Once we say we are Christian, everything we say and do is measured against how others percieve us.

    It is wise to be cautious, but not at the expence of being *Bold* as to presenting the Gospel and onpening up the couriosity of others.

    In truth, Christianity is not easy for the timid or cowardly.

    If you truly believe you are right, do let let the inspection or ridicule of others stop you from having confidence and standing firm on the rock of your beliefs, if you are not certain of what you believe, then you need more conformation on the subject before you take a position….Back to basics, the Word of God and conformation from the Holy Spirit. Then….Believe what God has said.

    Then you are ready to present yourself or your beliefs to the public, and be happy to let them see Christ in what you have to say and in your behavior.

    Steve

  17. SFDBWV says:

    Of course I meant to say “DO NOT” let the inspection ect in my comment above.

    Steve

  18. rokdude5 says:

    Mart…
    Didnt your dad had a sign in his office that said “Maybe Today”?

    This topic reminds me of a book I have of a particular Christian sect. In this book it showed copies of their pamphlets that they hand out in walking door to door. One was dated 1975 where it predicted Christ’s return no later than that autumn.

    Of course, Im thinking of whats written in Matt 24:36 where even Jesus, Himself, doesnt know the hour of His return but only His Father. (This is a challenge for me not to think of tritheism – three separate Gods but rather to stick with the Trinity) If Jesus doesnt know then who are we to say that we know. To me its almost teetering on blasphamesy to proclaim when the last day is. A person is saying they know more than Jesus (who is God!)

    Of course with all of the world’s ills and natural disasters (btw, my college buddy in Christchurch, NZ is fine – praise God), I, too, am wondering if it’s “Maybe Today”.

    There are four major views of End Times – Amillennialism, Historical Premillennialism, Dispensational premillenniallism and Postmillennialism. Some folks would go so far as to flat out pick one of these views and consider those who follow other viewpoints as “being gotten by the devil”.

    For me I may have a leaning toward one of these viewpoints but I really dont want to end up on the other side of Heavens Gates saying to myself, “Oops!” I really need to keep my mind and heart open and let God be in charge. “RJ”

  19. poohpity says:

    I totally understand what you are saying, Mart. It is like the boy crying wolf so much that his credibility was ruined when he really did see the wolf. If we are wrong with predictions about something that God told us it is not for us to know then we may ruin the ability and credibility to the facts of the Good News. That is really important about what other people think. Do we want them to doubt the gospel because of the merits of our fascination with the end times when we will be wrong about the time it will come.

    I know for myself when I hear someone speaking of the end times or it’s closeness I will turn a deaf ear to them because I know what the bible says about it. So in my eyes their credibility is totally gone with what ever else they have to say even if some of it is truth.

    We are given certain truths for the spreading of the gospel and when we tinker if things that we do not understand and say we are right then why would anyone believe us regarding what knowledge we do have about God. It is very important to then say, “Hey I am not so sure about when or how but I do know that it will happen” if we have developed a credible witness. That is all together different from being persecuted for telling the truth rather than guessing about the end times or spending so much time studying it to the neglect of what we given to do.

    “The sky is falling”, lol. Chicken Little. It is like scaring someone into belief rather than sharing the love of Christ.

  20. poohpity says:

    Please look past the typos, lol.

  21. Mart De Haan says:

    rokdude5,
    Yes, I have the same sign over my desk. For me, the implication is, “Maybe Today”…”Maybe Not”… so be ready either way.

  22. tandgmartin says:

    Of the three groups Mart has identified, I’d say I’m mostly of 2. I do pay attention to prophesy, but don’t get all caught up in trying to match details with the times, as there have been so many matches you could make throughout the centuries. Also, during my early years, I heard so many Christians, all sincere and good people, proclaim that particular political figures were the anti-Christ. I remember as a third grader in Sunday School, a substitute in our class that day scared the living daylights out of us telling us of the horrors to come from Revelation. It was not until sometime in adulthood that I cared to read Revelation, now one of my very favorite books, no thanks to that Sunday School experience. LOL (can we put LOL in this blog?) jk Anyway, these experiences have led me to realize that prophecy is there for a reminder that this life is temporary, but it’s not to be stressed over if we’re children of God.

  23. Ron says:

    Like Bob, I was taught that 1948 marked the leaves on the fig tree that Jesus referred to. I think the first group is the second most dangerous, because so much false information can get started this way. If a person makes one statement that proves to be false, he is a false prophet and should not be believed. How many Bible teachers have taught 1948 = leaves on the fig tree?

    Their first mistake is that the nation of Israel is symbolized by the olive tree, not the fig. The fig tree is typical of the Temple-centered Jewish worship. It is dead. There are no leaves there yet. The fig tree and Ezekiel’s vision of the dry bones coincide. Israel has come back together, but there is no (spiritual) life in the bones–in the nation as a whole. The fig tree is still under the curse, dried up from the roots.

    The danger in this is that there is no “Maybe Today”. I can believe the olive tree/fig tree, dry bones scenario with all my heart, but my belief has no bearing on the actual day Christ will return. So what if I am wrong? The day will arrive in God’s own time regardless of what I believe, and I may be caught unprepared. Group 2 is the safest group to be in, but it is so fun to speculate!

  24. SFDBWV says:

    I am struck by the similarity of the *rapture/return of Christ* and …death.

    Oh yes, I know the difference, but….

    Repeating a Priest I heard once ” There is nothing as certain as death, nor as uncertain as when it comes.”

    There is a great deal of information Jesus has given us, and leaves it to us to use it wisely or unwisely.

    Maybe today, maybe not, half empty, half full.

    What do you want to happen today?

    Seek the Christ while He may be found, for like the story of Noah, God Himself will shut the door.

    Steve

  25. Mart De Haan says:

    Will some or many not follow a “church” into the ark that is not faithful, on one hand, to warn about the coming “flood”, or careful, on the other, in what it says about those that it portrays in end time terms.

  26. SFDBWV says:

    My next door neighbors are a young couple, they are living in an old house that needs lots of work done to it. So they are painting the outside.

    It is a two story wood frame house with an attic, so it is rather high up.

    They painted as far up as their ladders could safely reach, but then were stopped for a solution as to how to get higher up safely.

    Some friends of theirs brought them a truck load of scafolding, which was an answer to their problem…except that they did not know how to put the scafolding together.

    So they came over and ask me if I could help them, I was glad to oblige.

    As I showed them how the structures went together, I had to emphesize how important the foundation of the structure is…It must be 100% level at the begining.

    Be in a hurry or lazy and the base is placed even an inch off, as the scafold rises, that little inch can turn into feet quickly, making the entire structure dangerous, and unsteady. The result being the posibility of injury or death from a fall.

    So it is with our understanding of scripture, we must be on level even ground and have a sturdy base, or else over time we are way off course and in danger of falling.

    It is OK to *LOL* it is good to have a sense of humor, and we should, but we must also remember that the eternal future of thoes we love and thoes we concern ourselves with presenting the Gospel is very serious businness.

    The little six point buck and his family of three does and two spotted fawns, didn’t even harly move out of my way this morning as I fed them, they just kept on eating as I stood in prayer, hearing me but I doubt listening to me.

    Steve

  27. BruceC says:

    Very interesting topic Mart.

    Paula,
    Too bad you will not participate due to the comments by some about our current President. I don’t believe that all that share that view are racist. Some folks have called Bush and others the same thing and those people are always looking for the anti-christ. But some leaders could be looked at as a “type” of the anti-christ; such as Hitler. What drew attention to the current resident of the Whitehouse was that he didn’t try to dissuade anyone from calling him the “messiah” or “the one” as many folks did. Also his coolness towards Israel in ways. But he isn’t the anti-christ. There is a fringe that looks under every rock for him and always will.

    The first group is always trying to make headlines fit prophecy. There is a danger in that as some are so adamant about their theory that when proved wrong the unbeleiver has all the more reason to look at Christians as “out there”. It’s not a very good witness. Once listened to a pastor years ago who said he didn’t know the the month, the day, nor the hour; but had a “pretty sure” of the year. Well that year came and went years ago and I quit going there years ago too. When it comes to prophecy we need balance. Knowing He will return, and that many signs of the times point to that being soon; but at the same time knowing we still have work to do for Him and not to be slack. Speculation without making definite statements I think is good and may cause one to study Scripture more. The Book of Revelation promises a blessing to those who study it. Prophect fulfilled can be a very good witnessing tool as can the unfulfilled prophecies as long as we don’t make written in stone statements and get egg on our face. The third group is in the most danger as the Word says that today is the day of salvation. The rich man who built more barns for his stuff was one of these I think. He only thought of this present life as many do today and he was caught unawares.
    I love to look at prophecy and see some very interesting links between what is going on today and prophecy; but I do not make concrete statements about them. We need to be careful. And we should focus our attention on living for Him each day and being ready.

    BruceC

  28. phpatato says:

    Good morning All

    Been busy…my daughter gets married this coming Saturday. I am praying that the foundation of this new “house” is built upon solid rock and that Jesus is the Cornerstone. My daughter knows Jesus as her personal Saviour but her husband to be, although growing up in church and after her witnessing, is still on the “outside”. Please pray for this union.

    I enjoyed reading everyone’s comments on this subject. BruceC, you spoke it well. Steve, what a joy it must be to live where you do when each morning you have opportunity to get in touch with nature…literally. Thank you for your scaffolding story.

  29. poohpity says:

    My son pointed out to me that we all put God in a box because of our finite knowledge about Him. Some boxes are bigger than others but they are still boxes nonetheless. With the program today on DOD my box and prophecy about the end times has become larger.

    I have to say while watching the program and the restoration of Israel I flinched when thinking of the reaction that an Palestine would feel when hearing of the remnant being restored. How being in America I have had preconceived notions of what that may look like but it is way bigger than my understanding can fathom. The bigger picture is way bigger than I had thought. The connecting the dots between this and that and the true heart of God is really beautiful yet my understanding is so ignorant. I am so open to learn more thank you for stretching my box with more knowledge and understanding.

    My head knowledge is traveling to a heart knowledge that there is no nation, traditions, religion or separation of peoples to Christ we all are one to Him and His love reaches across all boundaries we as human beings have set.

  30. foreverblessed says:

    I grew up in a group 1 church, so I was a group one person.
    It is very very humbling to come to the conclusion that most of the prophecies foretold were wrong, like: in 1975 Jesus would have returned, and 3,5 years before that the church would have gone to the place of safety, they even showed the place, which was in Jordan, Moab.
    What if… we are wrong? I was wrong.
    The only thing left is to ask God forgiveness, and seek for what Is,
    The mystery: which is Christ in you
    and that is: Jesus, the cross, His resurrection, His Life in all who believe.
    I am now sooo glad to be able to believe that. Thanks to God.
    That is all sure right!
    So now I want to be a group 2 person, all resting in hatih in Christ, and my obedience to Him is a result of that.
    I want to be that, more and more, starting each day new in the morning!

  31. foreverblessed says:

    resting in faith in Christ, (sorry I did not proof read my comment before posting it)

  32. foreverblessed says:

    Maybe today,
    that could happen anyday.
    We visited friends, far away last march, and in july, on some friday morning, his wife went out, and she came back just before noon. She found her husband lying on the bed, and no more pulse. He had died. Suddenly, a healthy man, 62 years old!
    He was sure in Christ, and the last week of his life, he had been sooo happy. So full of freedom. And suddenly gone.
    We are human, and this life is so unsure, so feeble, but there is a spirit life in Christ in us. Thanks to God.
    My friend is suddenly a widow, what a shock, but she is comforted, allthough the first 3 days were very very difficult she says. And after that she felt the hand of God under her heart, holding up her heart.
    God takes care of us, nothing happens without His consent. He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, and His love endures forever. Psalm 136

  33. Regina says:

    Good Evening All

    Enjoyed reading all of the comments on the previous blog topic! They were very interesting, informative and thought-provoking. Thanks for sharing.

    Steve – I especially enjoyed reading your comments because they inspired me to look at the Middle East and Holy Land regions on a map. Something that I didn’t have an opportunity to do in school, and to do internet researh on the Six Day War (even watched a short video on one of the miraculous occurences that happened during the war).

    Mart – After reading your opening comment for this blog topic, I believe that I fit into the second group. I *did not* know or understand the significance and relevance of biblical prophecy until I became a member/partner with my current church and a partner with RBC ministries. At present, I don’t think I know enough about biblical prophecy to be concerned with connecting a “this” with a “that.” Besides, I can think of so many things that are much more important to me…loving the LORD with all my heart, soul and mind, loving my neighbor as I love myself, and walking in the Spirit (righeous; holy lifestyle before God), etc. I’m comfortable with allowing Jesus to take care of the “this” and the “that” in regards to biblical prophecy.

    First intial thoughts…

    Blessings,

  34. foreverblessed says:

    Well, I think Steve wants to say: it is good to study about the prophecies, and I agree with him. While always focussing on our new Life in Christ, we can study it.
    In my youth at church a lot of prophecy was read, and studied, so it is still in the back of my mind. I was kind of suprised about the anti-Christ being in the US. As it would seem more logical to me that he would rise out of the old Roman Empire in Europe, as we appraoch now the feet of the statue of Daniel 2, where the thighs were the Roman Empire, who became two legs (the east and the west of Europe since somewhere around 400 AD).

    I found that there is a reluctancy to study these prophecies, and rightly so, but why not know something about them? So as not to make this statement about the present president of the US.

  35. foreverblessed says:

    Regina “Besides, I can think of so many things that are much more important to me…loving the LORD with all my heart, soul and mind, loving my neighbor as I love myself, and walking in the Spirit (righeous; holy lifestyle before God), etc.”
    yes, these are more important, but if you can be still in Jesus, while doing a little study in prophecy it is OK, isn’t it.
    But if the studying of prophecies unsettles your peace in Christ, stop it and come back to Jesus, till you have found the total calmness in Him again.

  36. SFDBWV says:

    Hosea 4:6 “My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee,…”

    As many has stated, Love is #1 priority. This is for certain the most important of Christ’s commandments.

    Christ also told we His disciples, ” Behold I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.”

    Unless you understand the prohesy concerning the return of Christ, you can be misled, and decieved. Whereby we do have the Holy Spirit within our hearts to warn us of false steps. Too often we ignore His help and go on following after our own inclinations.

    Only haveing the strength of knowledge, concerning the issue can we not be misled nor mislead others.

    I have read some very good books, as well as have many of you about this subject. All build a good biblical base for their theories, yet when they disagree, they can’t all be right or wrong.

    All of the prophesy concerning the return of Christ is given in scripture, including His return, Matthew 24:30 Revelation 19…

    The rapture is glimpsed in Matthew 24:40,41. Our instruction then given to be *Watching* for His return Matthew 24:42.

    But I think most Importantly, the warnings and examples given by Christ in Matthew 25, are more important to read, and understand. We must be the faithful *servants*, He finds when the hour comes…

    35 degrees here in the mountains of West Virginia, this morning….

    Steve

  37. JediKnight4Him says:

    Anyone remember the book “88 reasons Why The Rapture Will Be in 1988”? Well that never came to pass BUT guess what….I got saved that same year because I thought it might happen! God does work in mysterious ways despite bad preditions or miss interpitation of end time scenarios. That said I have heard some say they will wait for the tribulation to start THEN they will get right with God…… thats not smart to play Russian roulette with your soul.

  38. SFDBWV says:

    The question behind the topic, is whether or not the current nation of Israel is the same nation of Israel given as prophesy leading up to the last 7 years of the rule of man before the Christ returns.

    If not, we who believe it to be, would be in error in allying ourselves with this nation and its people against her enemies, based solely on biblical instruction.

    However if it is, then we would indeed be living in the final years leading up to the rise of the anti-christ and Rapture of the Church.

    Also if is, then if we found ouselves as being totaly neutral, we may find we are at odds with God, and on the side of the very enemies of Israel, agents of the anti-christ.

    I myself believe that the Rapture will occur prior to the 7 year period known as the Tribulation.

    The events of this 7 year period are very well articulated in the Book of Daniel and in Revelation.

    When Jesus says in Matthew 24:15 “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth let him understand:) :16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains…

    He is not talking to the Church, He is talking to Jews who live in Judaea…Israel

    The Church is already raptured and in heaven.

    Lets then look at the matter.

    Who is the current enemy of the current Israel?

    Islam……

    Who will be the enemy of the nation of Israel spoken of in scripture, at the end of the age?

    A confederation of kingdoms or nations who worship the beast.

    Who is the beast?

    A false religion.

    What happens when the whole of the world does not fall down and worship this false religion?

    They are beheaded.

    Where do we see that practice already in operation?

    Islam.

    Islam is the face of the anti-christ, the enemy of Israel and the enemy of peace on earth.

    How can I ever, ally my heart with such a beast?.. Yes I can and should present the Gospel to his followers….but there is also a time to shake the dust from my feet and move on. Mark 6:11.

    Steve

  39. poohpity says:

    Steve, What if you are wrong?

    In First and Second John he describes the antichrist as one who leads us from realizing the true identity of Christ which is not only Islam but Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses and others. So that could also mean that people that rely on themselves and not God for change, comfort, provision and anything else that elevates them self above God could also be the antichrists. 1 John also states that the craze for sex, worldly things wealth, fame, self importance are also from the antichrist. So it is really important to realize the face of “this’s” that apply to all the “that’s”.

  40. poohpity says:

    Islam did not even get it’s start until the 7th century I think and John wrote about the face of the antichrist’s in the 1st century.

  41. poohpity says:

    What if the antichrist was the subtle things in life that creep their way into our hearts taking away the places that Jesus should fill instead of the in your face things. The little anger or hatred we feel towards a people group or the wants of the world.

  42. SFDBWV says:

    Pooh, John also says in 1Jn 2:22 “Who is a liar but he that deneth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.”

    In Jn4:3 John says “And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is in the world.”

    And yes in 1 John2:18, John states, “Little children it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now there are many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.”

    At the end of the age, many shall come claiming to be messiah and decieve many, Matthew 24:5.

    When this occurs, it is as a warning sign that we are near the end.

    The spirit of the antichrist has been around since the fall of man. Thoes who fall under his power make up many antichrists. Just as we who follow Christ are called Christians, there is only one Christ.

    But there is only one power behind the beast….the dragon, satan. Rev 13:4

    Whereby I may agree that some of what the Mormons or the Jehova’s Witnesses present, I consider a false doctrine, they do not deny that Jesus is Christ…But Islam does.

    Prophesy is about seeing and telling of the future, the fact that Islam did not yet exist until the 7th century is irrelevant.

    You ask what if I am wrong?

    Wrong about what?.. Believing that Israel as it is right now, is indeed the nation of Israel that is in place at the end of the age?.. Not the restored Israel that will exist after Christ returns, but the nation by which all prophesy speaks of concerning the last days.

    Wrong, that Islam is a false religion and follower of the spirit of antichrist?

    Wrong, in affirming my friendship towards the Israelite, over their Islamic enemies?

    Pooh, I will gladly take my chances about being wrong and judged so by Christ, rather than be right and set silent, and not warn thoes who may yet be saved.

    Steve

  43. Mart De Haan says:

    Zechariah says that 2/3 of Israel will not survive the time of great trouble. 1/3 will be the remnant of God’s people (Zechariah 13:8). Revelation seems to say a similar portion of the world’s population will not survive the same time of trouble.

  44. marma says:

    Hope it is okay to throw in a comment or two.

    We are in the last days. But like Peter said, those days may last days or millenia. We’ve already had 2 millenia go by. We aren’t told how long these last days will last, only that we are in them.

    The spirit of antichrist was present in the first century, is still present, will be present and find its ultimate expression in the ruler that will come. I don’t know that it is necessary to identify all who are antichrist. I”m not sure that that is why we were given that information (II Thes 2, II Peter 3). I think we are told those things so that we can be aware, that it is no surprise to God, to not worry, and that God will triumph over the opposition. Christ will build His church.

    My response to Christ’s coming and what God has told us will take place sometime future is to live before God and let the understanding that the Lord is coming motivate me to live a pure life and be a good testimony in word and deed to others.

    “So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.” II Peter 3:14

  45. poohpity says:

    Steve, it was a rhetorical question. It was in no way stated to offend it was to address the topic.

    Those religions I mentioned do deny the true identity of Christ they do not believe that He is God incarnate.

    Marma, you are so right the only way to stay ready for the end times and Christs second return is to live the way God intended us to. There will be no way that we do not know when He will return because it will be so glorious just the way the angels said in Acts he will return the same way He left.

  46. Regina says:

    Good Evening All

    As usual, I’ve SO enjoyed reading all of the comments on this blog topic. It’s AMAZING how much the LORD can teach someone (through other people) in such a short period of time!

    I believe that it was/is the LORD’s will for me to learn about biblical prophecy (and to keep learning) so that I can share my knowledge with others. A Bible verse comes to mind… “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15, KJV).

    foreverblessed – Although I believe I fit into the second group, I DID NOT mean to imply that I’m not interested in biblical prophecy or that I have no desire to study it. I’m VERY interested because it provides (for me) a measure of peace and comfort when I notice certain things happening in the world and how those occurences relate to what has been prophesied in the Bible. Jesus told us that there will be famines, earthquakes, wars, extreme persecution, false prophets, believers turning away from the faith, etc., and when these things take place that’s how we’ll know that the end is near (that the 2nd coming of Christ is at hand).

    What I meant to say is that I don’t attempt to teach anyone anything that I’m not absolutely certain will take place. It’s like Steve said, I wait until I’m unctioned by the Holy Spirit to share what I know to be true about biblical prophecy.

    A favorite hymn comes to mind…

    “Soon And Very Soon” (Andrae Crouch)

    Soon and very soon
    We are going to see the King

    Soon and very soon
    We are going to see the King

    Soon and very soon
    We are going to see the King
    Hallelujah, hallelujah,
    We’re going to see the King!

    Off topic here… Where were you on 9-11-01? September 11th remembered. May we never forget.

    Blessings,

  47. marma says:

    Melody, I like your father’s advice.

  48. jjhis says:

    Pat,
    I have prayed for your daughter and her soon-to-be husband. My son was married in June to his high school sweetheart, whom my wife and me have prayed for her salvation during their dating. The wedding seemed to confirm that Christ is in her heart as He is in our son’s heart. So I pray that you and your daughter may be blessed with the Lord’s assurance.
    What if we are wrong? We will continue to pray until we see His fruit.
    Jim

  49. leeanderson says:

    Sometimes I think we give Satan more possibility for success because we are only thinking “inside the box” of what we can imagine and put down on our “prophecy charts,”
    instead of unleashing God to do far more than we could ever even imagine (cf. Ephesians 3:20-21). In the original language of that passage, Paul piles higher and higher superlatives upon each other, almost as if he was raising the “Olympic pole vault bar” to one after another sky-high levels. Then, when God soars over the bar and disappears into the heavens, we are speechless, because we are in awe and wonder at the extent of His power. In the past, going forward in history, God can only give us an inkling of what He plans to do, because we could not comprehend it at that time . It is only afterward that we begin to praise God for His wisdom.
    Mart, I think you are right on to have challenged us to let God break out of the boxes and charts we have confined him to. The Israelites were gravely disappointed when they brought out the Ark-box before their battle with the Philistines, only to discover that the true Shekinah Glory had departed.
    The following poem from William Cowper expresses my views well:
    God moves in a mysterious way
    His wonders to perform;
    He plants his footsteps in the sea,
    And rides upon the storm.

    Deep in unfathomable mines
    Of never-failing skill,
    He treasures up his bright designs,
    And works his sovereign will.

    Ye fearful saints, fresh courage take,
    The clouds ye so much dread
    Are big with mercy, and shall break
    In blessings on your head.

    Judge not the Lord by feeble sense,
    But trust him for his grace:
    Behind a frowning providence
    He hides a smiling face.

    His purposes will ripen fast,
    Unfolding every hour;
    The bud may have a bitter taste,
    But sweet will be the flower.

    Blind unbelief is sure to err,
    And scan his work in vain:
    God is his own interpreter,
    And he will make it plain.

    William Cowper
    Olney Hymns

    Blessings on your ministry Brother. When I took a personal tour or RBC the last time my wife and I were in Grand Rapids, I was in awe at what the Grace of God is pouring out in your midst!

    Lee Anderson

  50. poohpity says:

    That was beautiful Lee, thank you.

  51. Laus says:

    It is a really good thought about second coming of Jesus Christ.

    The activity the first group does, connecting dots between this and that, is described as “watch” in the gospel. Bible says “watch and pray”. It asks us to be be alert.

    However, rather than believing on our own readiness, we should learn to believe on Jesus Christ who will make us ready present ourselves without blemish in the holy presence.

    Thanks

    Laus Deo
    India

  52. Dorothey says:

    I believe everything “Poohpity” said. And for those of you in group 3, just because you believe you’ll have time (plenty of, or otherwise) to get right with your Maker doesn’t mean you will, i.e., what will be, will be. It’s God’s timetable we’re living in, not ours. What if you’re wrong?

  53. leeanderson says:

    The following came to me via the Internet from a solid evangelical missionary which we have supported for 35+ years. I invite discussion on this provocative and very important essay. I happen to agree with the author’s balanced perspective and qualifications and “right to speak” to the issue.

    Evangelicals, Mormons and Glenn Beck

    Dr. Jim Garlow

    Some has been said and written about evangelicals “compromising” by sharing the stage this weekend at Glenn Beck’s Friday night Kennedy Center event (for approximately 2,000 pastors and Christian leaders) and being seated on the platform (nearly 200 seats) of the Lincoln Memorial during the “Restoring Honor” Rally on Saturday, August 28. This all stems from the fact of Beck’s Mormon faith.

    I have not been criticized for going to the rally (at least as of this date), but I have seen writing attacking two men in whom I believe: James Robison (who will not even be at the rally, but whose video might be) and David Barton. Both of these men have impeccable credentials in our biblical faith.

    “I recognize that people of good will and good faith might differ with each other on this. Yet there is no need to “de-Christianize” each other over the matter.” I recognize that people of good will and good faith might differ with each other on this. Yet there is no need to “de-Christianize” each other over the matter.

    If I may, allow me to state how I dealt with the issue of evangelical-Mormon working partnerships during the Prop 8 battle here in California.

    LESSONS LEARNED AND GUIDELINES FOLLOWED FROM PROP 8

    We, as evangelical pastors (primarily in San Diego), were one of the first groups to organize regarding the defense of marriage. We later learned what the Catholics were doing, and we worked side-by-side – with great synergy and effect. The relationship proved to be spectacular and continues to this day.

    It was later that some of the hierarchy of the Mormon Church called and asked to meet with me. Candidly, I did not – at first – want to meet with them and did not want to work with them. My disagreement with Mormon belief is substantial. Yet I knew that the battle for marriage was so immense in scope. The Sacramento based Schubert-Flint Public Affairs, working with Ron Prentice of ProtectMarriage.com, had outlined what was needed. We needed to activate 25,000 persons to knock on doors immediately, and to organize 100,000 persons, “boots on the ground,” by Election Day. In addition, many other webinars, satellite simulcasts and phone banks were planned, along with a 40-day prayer and fast period culminating with 33,000 persons in a 12-hour prayer meeting – 10 am to 10 pm – in Qualcomm Stadium three days before the election.

    Several months before the election, three officials from the Mormon Church came to my office. The meeting was cordial, respectful and warm. We discussed ways to work along side each other in this battle.

    “Most of us are familiar with the term ‘co-belligerency,’ which means that people with diametrically opposing views on certain critical issues work together. It was in that role that we came together.” Most of us are familiar with the term “co-belligerency,” which means that people with diametrically opposing views on certain critical issues work together. It was in that role that we came together.

    Towards the very end of the meeting, I was just ready to bring up a critical issue: the insistence of Mormons to proselytize and argue theology. Before I could bring up the obvious “elephant in the room,” the highest ranking Mormon official present – a member of the Council of the Seventy – said (as nearly as I am able to re-construct the conversation), “Allow me to broach a topic that is likely on your mind. You will be concerned that our people will bring up discussions regarding their Mormon beliefs. I want to assure you that they will not bring up that topic in conversation.”

    I was surprised at his directness, thus I said, “Can I have your word on that?” He responded, “You can.” I asked, “Even though you are over the Pacific Rim (approx. 1/3 of the world) in the Mormon Church, may I have your cell number and call you personally if I become aware of any violation of the promise?” He responded, “You can,” and gave me his cell phone number.

    I never called it. Not once. Because I never heard of one single violation. On our first weekend of knocking on doors across California, 25,000 persons showed up to work. Twenty four thousand of them were Mormons. They worked. They worked hard. They never brought up their faith. Not once. A letter had been sent instructing them to discuss only the defense of marriage – and they honored that policy.

    Once we began working side by side, I received a call from a reporter with the Wall Street Journal. I have done over 775 interviews, so there was nothing particularly unusual about receiving such a call. However his questions were not about Prop 8 and marriage as such, but about the relationship between evangelicals and Mormons. As I was answering his questions, I stopped and said, “I am going to answer you as directly as I can. If you misquote me, you will do great harm to my standing as an evangelical, and you will harm the new and young friendship I have with some Mormon acquaintances, so I am going to talk slowly so you can write this verbatim and quote me correctly.” I did talk slowly, and he did quote me correctly.

    THE QUOTE: KEY FOR UNDERSTANDING THE ISSUE

    “‘As evangelicals and Mormons, we are not theological brothers and sisters. But we are friends and neighbors. And on that basis we work together to defend marriage.'” My quote was simply, “As evangelicals and Mormons, we are not theological brothers and sisters. But we are friends and neighbors. And on that basis we work together to defend marriage.” At another time, the LA Times called, equally inquisitive of the “new relationship.” I ended up making the same statement – “As evangelicals and Mormons, we are not theological brothers and sisters. But we are friends and neighbors. And on that basis we work to defend marriage” – repeatedly.

    That became the mantra for our Prop 8 work together. Mormons make up 2% of the California population, yet contributed at least 40% of the funds to defend marriage. Of the workers that knocked on doors and called homes, I suspect that the LDS church provided the lion’s share of the workers.

    (They are not the only identifiable group or constituency to which we are indebted. There were ethnicities that were critical to defending marriage. Whites voted 49% in favor of Prop 8. Asians also voted 49%. Hispanics voted 53% to defend marriage. While blacks voted 70%. Thus marriage was saved in California by Hispanics and African Americans.)

    But back specifically to the issue of evangelicals and the LDS Church. Notice the phrase – “friends and neighbors.” That is exactly what they are. As such, I treat them (and all persons) with honor and dignity.

    I later visited Salt Lake City and dialogued with two members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, Russell Ballard and Quentin Cook. One of them set the stage perfectly with this opening line, “Look, we are just going to have to tolerate each others theology, so we can work together defending marriage.” My sentiment exactly.

    Because he had laid it out so clearly, we were able to focus on the matter at hand: defense of marriage. I later met with them for the same purpose. They are my “friends and neighbors.” In addition, there are a host of members of the LDS church in San Diego and further up in the greater LA area that are my “friends and neighbors.” I thoroughly enjoy my time with them. They are friends. I have not changed my theology one bit. Not at all. I suspect they have not as well, but we can work together on this important project.

    “I asked myself two questions:

    1. Am I joining with someone simply out of failure to trust God, or does this alliance seem to have the approval of God for this moment, to accomplish his will?

    2. Am I compromising biblical truths and values in this alliance?”In the aftermath of the November 2008 Prop 8 victory, there was a demonstrable backlash directed at the Mormon Church. Without hesitation, I called a meeting of evangelicals and Catholics – inviting the Mormon officials that I could gather on short notice – and we (Catholics and Evangelicals) affirmed that we would stand with them and speak out against the violence directed against them. In addition, I participated in a major press conference in which Evangelicals, Catholics, Muslims, Sikhs and others all defended the unwarranted and viscous attacks on the LDS Church.

    THE NATURE OF ALLIANCES

    In the Old Testament, there were times that Israel forged alliances out of desperation because they did not trust God. That distrust was sin. In addition, Israel compromised herself in those alliances, becoming like those with whom she joined.

    However, there were other scenarios in which God used cultures outside Israel for his purposes. Those alliances seemed to have the approval of God.

    Thus I developed a personal “grid” regarding the forming of alliance on the Prop 8 battle. It might not be helpful for you, but it is helpful for me. I asked myself two questions:

    Am I joining with someone simply out of failure to trust God, or does this alliance seem to have the approval of God for this moment, to accomplish his will?

    Am I compromising biblical truths and values in this alliance?

    I concluded that the alliances were not out of failure to trust God, but out of an understanding of how (in this moment) to live out his will on earth, and that there was no compromise of biblical values.

    I am not hesitant to say that – though they are not my theological brothers and sisters – the LDS members I have come to know truly are my good friends. We even laugh hard together. Yes, we even tease each other about each other’s theological positions. Yes, I wish they would embrace what I believe. As yet, that has not happened. But in the meantime, we are unabashedly “friends and neighbors.”

    GLENN BECK

    The Evangelical-LDS Prop 8 alliance provides some background to the issue of why an evangelical might attend the Restoring Honor Rally in Washington, DC.

    (I am not expecting all persons to arrive at the same conclusion. There is a principle I learned decades ago, “Others may; you cannot.” I have wondered for years why so-called Christians can do some of the things they do. For example, Christians who prided themselves in “doing all things in moderation,” however, are finding that they are no longer doing those things in moderation. You name the taboo. They are almost all gone. What was called “sin” in the 1950’s is quite cool in the new millennium. Has Evangelical Christianity improved? Grown up? Become so much more sophisticated? I doubt it. It seems a bit dull. Blunted. Muted. It has lost its “edge” – and we all know it. As I have observed these changes, I sensed that “the old way” – as out of step with contemporary culture as they might be – might just be better. So as others begin doing things I do not do, I attempt to override my first instinct to judge. Then I hear the “Others may; you cannot” principle and go my merry way. Why have I taken you on this detour? Because when it comes to the issue of “should I attend a rally led by a Mormon?” some may; others may not. There is room for amiable disagreement.)

    As I have sorted this out, I have watched Glenn Beck as closely as I can. I do not have a lot of contact with him, but I do have some. I have been:

    In his studio audience once
    On his show once, interviewed very briefly
    With him and a group of 20+ persons for a three and one half hour dinner and discussion
    With him in his green room with a group of 10 for nearly half an hour
    Conversed with him one-on-one very little, perhaps 5 minutes total
    Led on his internet early morning (7:05 Eastern) 10-minute prayer and devotional time on one occasion
    I have had some other email and phone contact with his staff, but only a dozen or so times. Bottom line: I have had some, but limited, contact.

    I have listened and watched very carefully regarding clues to Glenn’s spiritual condition. I have interviewed several people who have been with him and have talked very specifically with him regarding his own personal salvation. Glenn has said unequivocally that that he relies on the atonement of Jesus on the cross for forgiveness for his sins, and those are almost the exact words. Few people use the term atonement. Glenn did.

    On one of his TV shows about a month ago, he laid out the gospel, using his well known blackboard, in the clearest explanation of the crucifixion and the resurrection that I have ever heard on national TV. I called James Robison, and asked, “Did you hear that?” James said, “Richard Land (Southern Baptist) just called me and said he never expected to hear the Gospel so clear on secular television.” It was quite remarkable. A few days ago, Glenn laid out America’s problems and then concluded, “We need God!”

    I have interviewed persons who have talked specifically with Glenn about his personal salvation – persons extremely well known in Christianity – and they have affirmed (using language evangelicals understand), “Glenn is saved.” He understands receiving Christ as savior. (Note: I have never discussed with Glenn this topic.)

    On one occasion three of us were walking near the Liberty Bell in Philadelphia. The person to my right asked the man to my left – who is with Glenn Beck a great deal – “I heard Glenn Beck is a Mormon. What is he?” The man to my left, without missing a beat, without even turning his head to look at the questioner said, “A Christian.” That answer comes from a man who has been with Glenn often. At the risk of throwing a verbal grenade, there is no ambiguity about Glenn’s faith, such as what we see in the “is he a Muslim / is he a Christian” discussion regarding our President.

    But what about Glenn’s Mormonism, many ask? That is a legitimate question. Glenn was raised, as I understand it, as a Catholic. He became a heavy drinker, destroying everything in his life. It was the Mormons that got him into the equivalent of a 12-step program. His life was turned around. His wife, as I understand it, is a strong Mormon. My personal read-out would be that Glenn’s Mormon ties are not profoundly deep rooted. I am not saying that to denigrate his theological understanding. I simply do not see evidence that he has deep Mormon theological motifs.

    But didn’t he talk about some Hebrew stone tablet on his show recently? Yes. Frankly, I am not sure why he did it. It appeared for a moment that he might be – for the first time – pushing his Mormonism. But in further conversation with those I regard to be “in the know,” that was apparently not the case.

    Two statements by Beck have caused serious Bible believers serious heartburn. One was on an interview – I believe with Katie Couric – and the other was recently on the Bill O’Reilly show. In both cases, Glenn trivialized the dangers and harm of gay “marriage.” Some defend him, saying he was merely saying that that issue is not his personal focus.

    I am not certain how to interpret this one. I was on his show a couple months ago. He specifically asked Robby George (Princeton professor) to tell the audience about the Manhattan Declaration – which strongly affirms traditional, natural marriage. He then changed the conversation to the violence against those that defended Prop 8 in California. At that point, I spoke up, referencing the acts of violence and vandalism committed by those trying to advance the radical gay agenda.

    I do not have an explanation for his comments on Bill O’Reilly. I need to know more of the background. It was, most assuredly, not his strongest moment. He may be in need of much more biblical truth and social science data.

    ONE’S THEOLOGY

    Let me ask you a question. Is your theology “off” at all? Even one percent? Only the most arrogant would say, “Oh, my theological understanding is 100% perfect.” No, we all keep growing. God’s Word does not change. God’s truth does not change. But we grow in our understanding of spiritual, biblical truths.

    I suspect my theology is off by 1% or 4% or 7%. And, I have news for you: yours is too.

    “Here is my question: if your theology is off slightly, but you still trust exclusively in Jesus Christ’s death on the cross for your salvation, and in his resurrection, are you still saved? Going to heaven? Yes. ” Here is my question: if your theology is off slightly, but you still trust exclusively in Jesus Christ’s death on the cross for your salvation, and in his resurrection, are you still saved? Going to heaven? Yes.

    How far off might your theology be – and yet still trust exclusively in Jesus Christ’s death on the cross for your salvation, and believe in his resurrection – and still be saved? Is it 10% or 15% or 20%? Or what?

    My point is this: all of us are missing part of God’s full truth. He knows all truth. I don’t. I am striving to understand all truth, but it is a journey of maturing in the understanding of God’s Word.

    Someone might truly trust in Jesus Christ’s death on the cross for one’s salvation and believe in Jesus as Lord as demonstrated by the resurrection, yet be lacking in many points of doctrine.

    Larry King likes to ask evangelicals on Larry King Live if one must believe in Jesus to go to heaven. If they say “yes,” then he is likely to mention that he is Jewish, so will he go to hell? Evangelicals historically squirm at the thought of saying, “yes, you are going to hell.” What is a better answer, I believe, is, “Everyone who is going to heaven will get there the same way: by the provision of Jesus.” “But am I,” Larry might persist, in this imaginary conversation, “going to hell?” We should respond politely, “All who are going to heaven will get there the same way: by the provision of Christ. It is not mine to judge who will be ‘in’ or ‘out.’ But I do know that all who gain heaven will get there the same way: by the provision of Christ.”

    Perhaps that Larry King illustration has some relevance to this discussion.

    THE RESTORING HONOR RALLY

    I am going to the events at the Kennedy Center on Friday and the Lincoln Memorial on Saturday. I go with no reservation. I go – as most are I suspect who have sorted through this issue – with a sensing of the blessing of the Lord.

    ” Glenn Beck is being used by God – mightily. The left loves to slam him and do so viscerally and often with vulgarities. Glenn is not perfect. (For the record, neither are you or I.) But his expose on America’s sins is stellar. I am convinced his motives are pure…Based on all I know about him, I was proud to stand with him at the Restoring Honor Rally. ” Candidly, I made a statement publicly about three months ago, before I ever knew I would even meet Glenn Beck. The statement was (as nearly as I can reconstruct it from memory): “If this nation collapses in the 2010-2012 time frame, historians will have to report, if they are honest, that American fell because of silent pastors and inactive pews. If, on the other hand, this nation is saved from self-destruction in the 2010-2012 time-frame, those same historians will have to report that one of the major reasons for the turnaround was Glenn Beck.” That was before I had ever been with him. I had no idea that two days later, I would receive a call to come meet with him.

    I still believe that. Glenn Beck is being used by God – mightily. The left loves to slam him and do so viscerally and often with vulgarities. Glenn is not perfect. (For the record, neither are you or I.) But his expose on America’s sins is stellar. I am convinced his motives are pure. His research department is profoundly skilled, checking footnotes down to the last detail. The left cannot “get” him – at least, not at this point. They have tried. Since they have no truth, and history is not on their side, they resort constantly to ad hominem attacks. He has withstood staggering scrutiny, disdain and attacks.

    Based on all I know about him, I was proud to stand with him at the Restoring Honor Rally this weekend. Glenn does not see that this about him, because it is not. It is about Restoring Honor. That is the issue. It is much bigger than Glenn Beck and he knows it. And God knows, we need it.

    These comments were written by Dr. Jim Garlow, Chairman of Renewing American Leadership and Senior Pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church in San Diego, CA. He is heard daily on over 800 radio outlets nationwide.He founded and led the California Pastors Rapid Response Team, a group of several thousand pastors that was instrumental in the campaign to enact Proposition 8.

  54. foreverblessed says:

    Thank you so very much for this explanation!
    Especially the quote about whether a person is going to heaven/hell.
    thanks a lot.
    Everybody should do as his own consciounce can handle, and thanks to God: .. for God is greater then our hearts, and He knows everything 1John 3:20, which is the theme of the present topic (beating ourselves up).

  55. poohpity says:

    Wow, Lee that was very informative about Prop 8 which was overturned when I was over there on August 4th by the court. I do not feel the topic was about our theological difference with religions but in holding to specific prophetic happenings and how by putting so much emphasis on those happenings that they hold those thoughts to a fault, because they may be wrong and then their credibility is ruined. That is what I understood part of the topic to be about.

  56. James says:

    Well, with all due respect, we ARE wrong… if we believe anything other than the inspired, written word of God, which is the bible. As a former runner, I know that when you take concentration off of the finish line, the race becomes easier. Knowing that in Jesus we HAVE a ‘finish line’ will help keep us ‘in the race’.

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