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The Burden

During this current visit to Jerusalem I’ve been thinking a lot about an ancient prophecy of Zechariah.

The fact that unfolding political complications between Israel and Arab neighbors continue to be a problem for international peace has me reading again a prediction that in the last days Jerusalem will become a burden for the nations of the world.

In that day Zechariah tells us that all nations of the world will come against a besieged Jerusalem at which time God intervenes. The result is clearly Messianic. In this last days scenario God rescues a remnant of his people from international attack.

But here’s what I can’t get out of my mind: Wouldn’t those who are looking for Messiah’s rescue erupt in unparalleled joy and celebration when he finally shows up in their behalf? Isn’t that a moment when the nation of Israel should be on its feet jumping for joy, or falling to their knees in thankfulness for God’s faithful intervention?

That, however, is not what Zechariah foresees. At least, not initially. Instead his  prophecy says that God will, in that day, give Jerusalem a spirit of repentance. The result of that repentance in turn is a kind of heart wrenching grief that is one of the most heartbreaking and emotional descriptions of the Bible.

So why will Israel mourn? Zechariah sees more than spiritual failure– at least on a moral level. What Zechariah foresees seems to be far more personal than that.

In that day, Zechariah quotes the God of Israel as saying, “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son” (Zechariah 12:10).

As the nation moves today past it’s holiday of Yom Kippur into a celebration of Succot (Feast of Tabernacles), I can’t help wishing all people of the world could sense the importance of this look into the future—to encourage wise decisions of personal faith—today– here in Jerusalem and around the world.

Who of any nation can afford to celebrate anything,.. before looking into the eyes of the One who is still saying, “Come unto me all you who are burdened and heavy laden, and I will give you rest… Matt 11:28


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40 Responses to “The Burden”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    Have spoken here many times about how Israel is God’s time table for prophetic events, while at the same time an example of and for a persons own relationship with God, or for that matter any group or nation of people.

    Yet here is the example again that God is in control of mens hearts as well as the events of them.

    God Himself will “pour out a spirit”…

    When we all come to terms with who Jesus of Nazareth is and accept Him as our Lord and savior….The Lords Spirit is poured out into us as well (Acts 2:1)(John 15:26-27).

    We too recognize that it was our sins that pierced Him and placed Him on that cross.

    We too should feel the burden of having let Him down and mocked Him and are as guilty as any….

    We too should feel the shame and remorse for turning our back on God and causing Him to pay our price for us and purchase us back at such a high price.

    During this period in Gods calander, we all are given an opportunity for grace, here in this passage of scripture, God forces His people to come to terms with their sin, opening the door for the final events of the story of God and man, on planet earth.

    Steve

  2. SFDBWV says:

    One of the multitude of gifts Mart provides for me with this blog and his direction, is that he causes me to read the word, check up on what I understand of the subject and be futher led by the Holy Ghost into the flow of information richly found in His Word.

    In part of his topic comments Mart mentions that he wishes that all the people of the world could sense the importance of this look into the future.

    Zechariah states in ch 14:16 that in the future all them that are left of all the nations that came against Jerusalem, shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of Hosts, and to keep the feast of Tabernacles (Succot)

    It would appear that Mart will get his wish, even if God has to force them to.

    Steve

  3. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Steve,
    Thank you for your post addressed to me in the previous topic. I was not meaning to criticise you for your love of Jesus or your steadfast trust and belief in His word.
    What you said realy spoke to me and confirmed other scriptures the Lord has given me recently about giving up idols in my life.
    I know it is hard, and times will get even harder for those who love Jesus, but as we can see from this topic and the scriptures in Zechariah that Mart has highlighted for us, even the good old U S of A is going to be one of those nations that turn on Israel and Jerusalem.
    I think the time is nearly here when our allegiance to Christ will be tested more and more and our allegiance to our nation states will diminish.
    I know you are proud to be an American as I am proud to be British, but the writing is on the wall for both our great countries and they will, no matter how much we protest, go down this almost predestined path to destruction.
    As you are well aware, we are both citizens of Gods Kingdom and our fight will be for Him in the days to come.
    I think, like you said above,”We too recognize that it was our sins that pierced Him and placed Him on that cross.”
    In the same way Joseph revealed himself to his brothers, so Jesus will reveal Himself to Israel and they will mourn and grieve at what they have done to the one they have pierced.

    Bob

  4. phpatato says:

    I agree, Bob, with what you say about how Christians will be tested more and more on whether their loyalty is with Christ or country, which of course includes Canada, Britain and the USA. Each country is falling farther and farther away from God; each country is guilty of watering down God’s laws and is agreeing with and conforming to what man thinks is right. Christians in their respective countries will have to decide..will it be God or my country.

    Joshua 24:15 “…..but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD”.

    I am thanking you Mart for your reference of Matt 11:28. My heart is heavy and the burden is great of late and reading that gave me comfort. I am sensing Him telling me to be still and “Know that I am God”.

    May God Bless and Keep you all in His Care

    Pat

  5. marma says:

    There is something very contemplative about your blog post, Mart.

    Maybe it is partly because you are in Israel, and here we are talking about it, that makes Zechariah and the Lord’s return more real to me.

    May the Lord bless you and use you over there, and all those who traveled with you. God Bless.

  6. phpatato says:

    OH dear

    I have been away for a month or so. I read this latest “Mart post”, read the comments and then commented myself.

    I have just now finished from trying to catch up… I read through the last couple of “Mart posts”. I must admit, that I find it odd, that what I posted at 7:11 pm tonight follows the same theme as what some had conveyed in the “Yom Kippur and the Calendar of God” post. (Steve in particular spoke of Joshua 24:15 as well).

    Things appeared to get a tad-bit dicey in that “Mart post”. It was not my intention to keep that fire lit. I just typed what was on my heart without any knowledge of what was said previously.

    Peace and love to All

    Pat

  7. poohpity says:

    That is so neat Pat because between the last topic and this one that verse was rolling around in my mind and heart; Psalms 46:10 “Be still, and know that I am God;
    I will be exalted among the nations,
    I will be exalted in the earth.” That is also my life verse but with these topics was made more real to me than ever before.

    Mart, In the last topic I also said that I did not know of any further prophecy about the The feast of the Tabernacles besides it being to celebrate God provision out of Egypt but since these topics have I read more about them and I was totally wrong, Thank you for pushing me to a further understanding.

    All of the symbolism that the Jewish people used like the water drawing and the illumination of the Temple while celebrating Sukkot, Jesus used to point to himself during the Feast of Tabernacles found in John 7:37-39 37 On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. 38Whoever believes in me, as[a] the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him.” 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified. John 8:12 12When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

    Then after pointing out the prophecy of Zechariah it even goes further into the book of Revelation; And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people,and God Himself will be among them, and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.” And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.” Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.” Revelation 21:3-6

    Wow, As burdened as I felt in my heart over the sins I committed and will commit when that final chapter comes to be there will be no more mourning by being in His presence for eternity. When the nations come against Israel and they find out that He has been available to them this whole time I bet they will have a very deep burden and very humble spirits.

  8. foreverblessed says:

    Thank you soooo much for bringing up this prophecy.
    It is to me like Marma said: So much more real Jesus’return!
    And what srikes me is that God will supernaturally protect the Jews in Israel, while being attacked by all the armies of the world coming to them.
    Look how awesome that protection must be to them in v 4-5, 7-8
    And after that miracle God pours out a Spirit of grace and supplication, and Jesus shows Himself as the One they have pierced. It is all God’s grace who comes to us. So powerful that we cannot resist.

    Ephesians 2:8
    8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

    It is for this that we can pray for more souls in our countries to be saved, that they may be touched by the Spirit of Grace and supplication, so as to be able to see Jesus, before all these things happen.

  9. foreverblessed says:

    Pat, you were spot on! I do not think you kept the fire burning, only the fire we should have for Jesus. You showed the way we should go! Thanks a lot!

  10. foreverblessed says:

    Last topic Pooh changed the order of the festivals around (thanks Pooh, because that made me think about the order):
    Logically you might think, you first weep your sins, the mourning, (the day of Atonement) and then you see Jesus, the trupet call, the rejoicing. (the feast of Trumpets)
    But God did put them the other way round:
    first the Day of Trumpets: the joyfull day, great rejoicing,
    then the day of Atonement, the day of mourning and weeping and seeing ones sins.

    First comes Jesus, in a miracle, supernaturally and then comes the realisation of our sins. Just the same as He will do to Israel and Jerusalem.
    Might it be the love of God, who puts it this way:
    We might be consumed by the remorse of our sins, when God has not shown Himself in love to us first.

  11. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Pat, You were not keeping the fires burning you were speaking from the heart.
    God has made us One People through Jesus who loves us and we are therefore One Nation unto God.
    I wish I could mourn and grieve for my country as Steve does for his, but we seem to be so “multi ethnic” here that to be native British seems to be a disadvantage.
    I thought todays ODB reading from Hebrews summed up how we should feel about our roots and who we are and where we are going.

    Amplified Bible (AMP)
    Hebrews 11:13-16

    13 These people all died controlled and sustained by their faith, but not having received the tangible fulfillment of [God’s] promises, only having seen it and greeted it from a great distance by faith, and all the while acknowledging and confessing that they were strangers and temporary residents and exiles upon the earth.

    14 Now those people who talk as they did show plainly that they are in search of a fatherland (their own country).

    15 If they had been thinking with [homesick] remembrance of that country from which they were emigrants, they would have found constant opportunity to return to it.

    16 But the truth is that they were yearning for and aspiring to a better and more desirable country, that is, a heavenly [one]. For that reason God is not ashamed to be called their God [even to be surnamed their God–the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob], for He has prepared a city for them.

    We should be looking forward, by faith, to the coming of Jesus to save Jerusalem from the nations of this world, just as Abraham & Moses were looking forward,by faith, to the day of His salvation on the cross even though they would never see or attain it.

    Bob

  12. SFDBWV says:

    Thousands of years ago Zechariah says that in the last days Jerusalem *will* become a burden for all the nations of the world.

    Is the trouble we see almost every day in our news headlines a fulfillment of that prophecy?

    Zechariah also tells us that in that day all of the nations of the world will come against Jerusalem.

    As we look at the scene of world politics, we see that Israel has few true allies. It shouldn’t take too much understanding or imagination to see the direction the world is headed towards.

    The people Zecharaiah speak of, mourn deeply for their sin against the very one who will deliver them.

    “All nations” come against Jerusalem and God stands up to fight for them…fight against who?…All other nations.

    What is a nation, but a large family. A gathering of people who are of like mind and most often related from their ancestors…a family.

    As Mart wishes that all people of the world could sense the importance of this look into the future, all people of the world are not only we, but also those of our family.

    The importance being that this man whom we know of as Jesus of Nazareth, an Israeli citizen, was and is in fact, God. That He will fight for these people whom all of the nations of the world have deemed to be a problem that needs eliminating.

    So all people should look at this future event and realize the futility of fighting against God and the truth of the person of Jesus Christ, repent and accept God’s offer of peace….

    We of all nations (families) should also weep and mourn because as we see this glimpse into the future we know that many of our families will be decieved and led away from God….That this one story of the final battle is part of a larger story of the final judgement of mankind.

    Pray for the peace of Jerusalem. The peace of the entire world is centered there.

    Steve

  13. Regina says:

    Good Morning All
    Hope you all will have a great day today!
    Off topic here (will comment on topic later)…
    It’s raining in Texas today… Nothing better than fall rain on a Saturday morning with nothing to do except chores! Don’t know why, but I seem to be more interested in chores when it’s raining outside…when I don’t (necessarily) have to go out in it. Though I love rain regardless. Feel like I’m rambling so I’m gonna stop. This blog is very therapeutic for me at times!

    Blessings, :)

  14. Regina says:

    Actually, it’s always therapeutic for me! :)

  15. SFDBWV says:

    Regina, We could use some of the rain you are getting. It has been very hot this past week but this morning has brought cooler fall temps.

    Our dry summer is just another neat thing about how God works. Without the unusual 24 feet of snow we had last winter, this summer would have been an even more severe dry spell.

    Steve

  16. saled says:

    foreverblessed quoted Ephesians 2:8 “For it is by grace that you are saved, through faith, and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God . . .”

    This so goes along with the Zachariah verse about God pouring out a spirit of grace and supplication on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And they both remind me of Mark 9:23 and 24: “Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.. And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou my unbelief.”

    We have nothing except it is given us by the Lord, yet we can choose faith, hope, and love. I don’t quite understand this paradox, but I love knowing that I can cry out to Him, “Help thou my unbelief”.

  17. poohpity says:

    I felt very sad this morning understanding what it has to take for those Jews who do not believe in the Messiah to be burdened with living their lives under the law. Even though they have been given so many promises but they have been closed to the whole NT fulfillment which is so freeing. They have leaned on so many nations and tried in their own strength to achieve so much while God has been saying to them throughout the whole OT to trust in God not themselves. As you said Mart with your final comment; “Come unto me all you who are burdened and heavy laden, and I will give you rest… Matt 11:28

    I understand their desire to be secure in their own strength, it is very hard to give all to the One who we can not see but through faith trust in.

  18. Regina says:

    Good Afternoon All
    I read the opening comment on this blog topic, about an hour ago, and found it very interesting, informative and thought-provoking. Wish I could be in a perpetual state of learning. Though I’m learning A LOT from this blog site, I don’t always have time (quality time) to sit down and study the Word, watch RBC videos and participate in this blog discussion.

    Totally makes me long for heaven… I know that we won’t be sitting around with our hands folded, but the AWESOME WONDER of heaven will be: 1. We’ll be with JESUS! :-) 2. We, the bride of Christ (the children of God), will be together.

    Mart said, “As the nation moves today past it’s holiday of Yom Kippur into a celebration of Succot (Feast of Tabernacles), I can’t help wishing all people of the world could sense the importance of this look into the future—to encourage wise decisions of personal faith—today– here in Jerusalem and around the world.

    I wish the same thing, that all people of the world understood the importance and magnitude of the gift that Jesus freely offers to anyone willing to receive it. I recently learned (via RBC & this blog site) that Israel is currently a secular nation.

    Learned that the hearts and minds of the Jewish citizens have not been changed by the power of God yet. One of the major reasons for the Israeli/Arab conflict. Would love to visit Israel one day. Especially since I understand, now, what’s taking place in that country from a biblical perspective, Who wouldn’t want to visit a place that’s SO deeply loved and so very special to God?

    Mart – Your comment (the one I included in my comment)also brought this Bible verse to mind…”My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me; Because you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children” (Hosea 4:6, NKJV).

    Blessings,

  19. Regina says:

    Good Evening All

    Bob – 9/24(5:47 pm) Your comment was very insightful and well said. It is–indeed–a bitter pill to swallow knowing that my beloved country will one day side against Israel. I did not know that when the Bible said, “all nations…” America was included in that prophecy. Always believed that America would be one of Israel’s allies.

    marma – You’re right… This blog topic is very thought provoking; I love the fact that this blog site motivates us to study and meditate on the Word of God.

    foreverblessed – Love your comment, “It is for this that we can pray for more souls in our countries to be saved, that they may be touched by the Spirit of Grace and supplication, so as to be able to see Jesus, before all these things happen.”

    It brought this Bible verse to mind, “If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land” (2 Chronicles 7:14 NKJV).

    Bob – Thanks for sharing the ODB reference scripture. It totally speaks to your comment to Steve. I’m very familar with it, but it spoke to me in a more meaningful way when you shared it in this blog.

    Steve – One of the reasons why I love rain so much is because Texas is (most of the time) a very hot, dry state. However, we’ve been getting an unusual amount of rain since 2004. That’s when I noticed the awesome Spring and Fall rain that we (some parts of Texas) were blessed with. So glad you got that snow last winter!

    saled – I second that love for knowing that I can cry out to Him, “Help thou my unbelief!” Though my faith in Him is stronger now because He’s shown Himself strong and trustworthy on my behalf. I TOTALLY adore Him!

    Blessings,

  20. HootOwl says:

    Around 9/11 I was looking at some video and reading some accounts of that day for the first time since that day. I noticed that I was beginning to fill with anger. Online I began to search for answers regarding the differences and hatred between peoples and cultures when all of a sudden here is this four part RBC series on exactly that! My anger has long since departed and has been replaced by the notion of these conversations between Maart and Arabs and Jews. I’m ashamed (yet joyful) that I needed to be reminded that God is in full control of all events, and that we the created are not intended to always know God’s reason, logic, purpose, or anything else. Our job is to recognize that God is in full control and that we should love our neighbor, not be judgemental, always be encouraging, prayerful, and to do our best to follow the example of Christ in all circumstances. To quote Philip Yancey, “There is a God and I am not it”! I really appreciate and am thankful for God’s hand in this series.

  21. marma says:

    Coming to this blog before I go to bed and reading all your posts is such a refreshment for me. Thank you!

    Two amazing things struck me. Foreverblessed–you mentioned God’s supernatural protection and care of the Jews, and Poohpity–you quoted Isaiah 46:10(“I will be exalted among the nations”).

    Both seem so impossible at times, when I look squarely at the circumstances, which seem crazy and haphazard versus seeing them through the eyes of faith.

    There is something so powerful about God saying, “I will” that makes us respond, “Yes, Lord, you said it. Your will be done. Amen.”

    The Lord’s return is as big a fact of life as the charge we have to follow God in this moment. I am appreciating how united those things are these days as I contemplate the present and the future and what God’s Word says about both.

  22. SFDBWV says:

    Out there in the world of Christian movies is a movie called “Joshua”.

    It is of course a fictional story, with characters who need the presence and influence of Christ.

    A priest’s faith is reaffirmed, a small Baptist chrurch is rebuilt, two broken lives are repaired, and a humble servant is elevated to preaching the Word.

    Joshua makes a gift of a wooden heart, that becomes broken…but with His touch, the wooden heart becomes whole again.

    A glass figurine of an angel is thrown to the ground in a fit of anger and broken into thousands of pieces, only Joshua is able to put all the pieces back together again.

    Joshua only has one message for the world before he departs….Love each other.

    I know it is only a movie, but it is what Christ commanded of us before He left, and what He wants to find us doing when He returns.

    If we believe that which we have been taught, the Church or body of Christ will be gathered out of the world before the events that the prophecy Zechariah give.

    The *Rapture* of the Church would be the begining of the events of Israel’s awakening.

    I am certain that the sudden dissapearence of billions of people world wide would be an eye opener to those who are left to figure out what happened.

    The gathering of waring nations around Israel may pale in comparison to such an event.

    But what about us? What will Christ find in our hearts when He opens that window in heaven to call us up?

    Will He find love in our hearts? Or something else?

    Steve

  23. poohpity says:

    Mart, on DOD today as the three of you spoke about peace then listening carefully and hearing the weapons in the background makes one think about how far it is away. It was very good to see what can happen with humble hearts and minds that were one in Christ yet so uniquely different and celebrating that.

  24. foreverblessed says:

    Mart wrote:
    -Instead (of great joy because of God’s deliverance) this prophecy says that God will, in that day, give Jerusalem a spirit of repentance. The result of that repentance in turn is a kind of heart wrenching grief that is one of the most heartbreaking and emotional descriptions of the Bible.-

    I was thinking about stories of Revival periods.
    In our country there was a big revival somewhere between 1740and 1780 AD. It goes that the people who were touched by the Holy Spirit were so shocked by their sinfulness they would wail and weep, and found themselves totally unworthy for forgiveness! At church these people were prayed for by other christians, long long prayers were needed, till the grace of God would touch their hearts and they were at ease.

    Does that not resemble what Zechariah decribes in the prophecy about Judah en Jerusalem?

    This makes me more sure of the fact how important it is to stay at rest in Christ, as to be able to receove the inner urge of the Holy Spirit to start to pray for other people.
    It is a miracle from God that people’s hearts are touched.

  25. foreverblessed says:

    That Mart wrote about this prophecy has boosted my faith!
    How great is our God, just as Pooh about Psalms 46:10
    that we can worship God, being happy about the fact that He is in control,
    Marma, Isaiah 46:10 is just as reassuring:
    I make known the end from the beginning
    from ancient times, what is still to come.
    I say: My purpose will stand
    and I will do all that I please.

    And it pleases Him that everyone would come to repentance:
    2 Peter 3:9

    Thank you all for posting, and Mart for providing, it is like learning more from Jesus and praying, worshipping together!

  26. Regina says:

    Good Evening All,
    Like marma and foreverblessed, I’ve been blessed and enlightened by the comments in this blog too and would also like to say thank you! :)

    Steve – Your comment, “If we believe that which we have been taught, the Church or body of Christ will be gathered out of the world before the events that the prophecy Zechariah give. The *Rapture* of the Church would be the begining of the events of Israel’s awakening.”

    was very informative for me because I knew the Rapture was going to take place before the Great Tribulation (which will last for 7 years), but I didn’t know that the “Church (bride of Christ)” would already be “raptured” out of the world before “all nations” turn against Israel. I didn’t know how the Rapture tied into Zechariah’s prophecy. So, the Church will be gone before the U.S., Britian, Canada, etc. turns against Israel?

    Getting ready to watch Part 4 of the DOD series, “Following Jesus in a Land of Conflict…”

    Blessings,

  27. Loretta Beavis says:

    Steve
    I really enjoyed the movie ‘Joshua’ also because of the things you mentioned. Bought copies and gave them out. I want to be doing what God wills for me.

    I also was surprised near the end when the priest who though he had God all figured out was in Rome and recognized his Savior and at that moment portrayed what we all need, mercy, and Joshua lovingly hugged him. We all need that rest.

    So, I fall to my knees in thankfulness for my rescue; then I jump for joy that God intervened ’cause I too, thought I had God all figured out! I have such joy that Jesus dwells within me, His Spirit!

    It was just a movie, but it had a wonderful message. An acquaintance of mine (a believer) thought the movie was blaspheme…why would that be?

    Lor

  28. foreverblessed says:

    Loretta, the church will be gone before these events?

    I only know for sure that it is Jesus who will come and bring a spirit of Grace and Supplication. And I pray that this will have already happened to me.
    I was brouth up in a church which preached that the church would be taken into the desert, given the two wings of a great eagle Revelation 12:14, for a time, times and half a time (meaning 3,5 years)
    And that at the end of that time when Jesus comes back the Rapture would take place as written in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

    but in the next chaptre Paul writes: Now brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 5:1-2 (meaning, live your lives as if today is the last day)

    So I can say: Maybe I was wrong about interpreation of evens, but my faith is in the One who knew the end from the beginning, and I have to concentrate on staying close to Him, in a humble and meek spirit.

  29. SFDBWV says:

    Loretta, We also buy copies and give them to people, along with other movies we enjoy from time to time.

    Regina, I of course have no idea when the rapture will occur, but the prophets give plenty of undrestanding when all of the events are in place for the return of Christ. Two connectyed but seperate events.

    In attempting to imagine a political attitude of the free world, and from a perspective that most all of the free world is Christian, I would have to believe that there will be a great change in the free world towards Israel.

    The removal of the Church and of the Holy Spirit that holds back the power of the antichrist, could open up the pathway for the coming attack against Israel from every nation of the earth.

    I take the clue from the timing outlined in Revelation. Rev 4:1 being the Rapture, followed by the events of the opening of the seals and the tribulation of the earth begining, in Rev Ch 7 the tribes of Israel are numbered and sealed.

    The eyes of Israel have been kept closed by God, but will be opened at the prescribed time, only then will Israel as a nation pray for deliverance from their protector God, the marriage supper of the Lamb occurs and the return of Christ happens Ch 19.

    Some believe that the rappture will take place as I said earlier, before the 7 years of the anti-christ occur, while others believe that the rapture will occur mid tribulation, at the 3 and 1/2 year period where the anti-christ will stand in the holy of holies in Jerusalem and blaspheme God, still others believe the rapture will occur just before Christs return….Of course there are some that believe there is no rapture at all.

    I believe that there is a rapture and that it occurs prior to the 7 year period known of as the Tribulation.

    “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ” 1 Thess 5:9.

    The first 3 and 1/2 years of the anti-christ, he will solve a world wide ecconomic disaster, he will restore law and order to a world that has fallen into anarchy, and he will broker a peace for Israel that will be a 7 year peace treaty.

    However when he is wounded by an attempted assasination, the true spirit of the anti-christ comes out and the final half of tribulation is the worst the world has ever seen.

    I have said all this so that you may understand why I believe that the rapture occurs prior to the event Zechariah explains in Ch 12:10.

    Light rain in West Virginia this morning, very welcome.

    Steve

  30. SFDBWV says:

    In the Bible there are 17 books that are designated as books of prophecy, 18 if you are Catholic.

    The minor books of prophets are very much deep in the future events of Israel and its coming events, some of which have already occured.

    The study of prohecy is fun and encourages ones faith, but our central theme is the Gospel.

    In Mart’s comments above, he wishes that the world could now see, what the big deal is that the nation of Israel will see in a future time.

    That they would also come to repentance and mourn and weep and seek forgiveness….Now, not after calamity strips them of security and safety.

    We are to be messengers of hope and of an answer to the horrors and pain that is already weighing on our souls.

    Yes as Mart said above to seek the one person who ask us to give Him our burdens so we may have rest… Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ.

    Steve

  31. SFDBWV says:

    As we study the Bible, we see layers upon layers of explanation concerning that which has been written…It is one of the miracles that the Word of God produces.

    The Holy Spirit, whom God gave us as a result of accepting our Lord Jesus as our Lord and Savior, will lead us into all truth…John 14:26

    Almost all of what we read in the scripture, speaks about an actual event, a future event, a personal event in each verse given.

    So we are blessed multiple times each time we read a single verse of scripture. It, through Him will speak volumes in just a few spoken words.

    Because we are all at different places with learning, we seem to see things differently, but that isn’t so, we just aren’t where another person is, in that persons relationship with God.

    In my comments to you here, I explain what it is, I, have come to understand, I can only speak for myself not for others, and I would not do so.

    I am not the final word on any subject, the Word of God is…So I invite any of you to seek the Word through a spirit of the desire to learn, and the Holy Spirit will enlighten you.

    I always thought of this blog as a place where we could have a conversation, I hope it doesn’t turn into a dart board.

    Steve

  32. foreverblessed says:

    Thanks Steve,
    My first thing: we have a hope which is already now:
    The Mystery, that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious tiches of this mystery:
    Which is Christ in you, the hope of glory Colossians 1:24-27
    Being also Galatians 2:20
    (I was just singing this song “There is a hope so sure” by Graham Kendrick)

    The following is of topic:
    Steve, you started with Revelation 4:1 being the rapture,
    and there I already loose you.
    To me that verse is an invitation to John to come up and have a look into the future. So he can write about it.
    Yes and no dart board, just a good discussion.

  33. SFDBWV says:

    foreverblessed, My appologies to you, if you have in the past disclosed you name here, I missed it. It doesn’t matter that I don’t know your name, just that I like the personal touch, which is why all who know SFDBWV know Steve.

    The darts I spoke of are obviously firey darts meant to do harm, not questions or discussion given in the spirit of friendly conversation.

    I can get very involved with the subject of the rapture, as there are as many books on the subject as there are opinions.

    So in the spirit of keeping it short, let me start with the fact that in Revelation, after the introduction there are instruction to the churches found in the first 3 chapters….The word Church is never written or spoken again after the opening of the window in heaven. Rev 4:1

    As I stated above the layers of scripture are meant to expose many facts or truths.

    The language given there in telling John to come up is also the same language given in 1 Thess 4:16.

    All throughout the remainder of Revelation, the story is about Israel, only when speaking of those souls who are given white robes and who stand before the throne of God is the subject everyone including those whom have come to the Lord during the tribulation.

    All throughout Revelation there is no instruction given to the Church as to what to do during the 7 year tribulation period.

    In Matthew 24:16 when Jesus tells those who are in Judea to flee into the mountains and so forth, He is speaking to who?…Those who are in Judea…Jews. Not the Church.

    The story picking up again for the Jew in the book of Revelation.

    I hope this helps you understand where my thoughts come from.

    Steve

  34. phpatato says:

    On the subject of the Rapture and Tribulation, I wondered about the word SEVEN. I googled that word as it is related to the Bible. What I read “blew my mind”. Seven is a very significant number in the Bible. It’s meaning stands for “completeness, perfection”, which is why satan can never be tied to that number..hence the mark of the beast as being 666..always being one number short of 7. Can you imagine having to run in a long distance race and knowing you will never catch up or win; to be almost “there” but losing? No wonder satan is so angry…1 Peter 5:7-11

  35. foreverblessed says:

    Steve, Bob also asked my name, I sometimes have given it here, This is a small country, and I write things about my former church, which was small, and people could find out who I am talking about, and who I am. So I am hesitant about it.
    (To give a hint, it is the greek word for Rock)
    So my former church did give this interpretation:
    Jesus will come back at the Trumpet call of God, 1 Thessalonians 4:16
    and then we, who are still alive, will be taken up to heaven to meet Jesus. For the context of 1 Tess 4:13-18 is that we who are still alive at the coming of the Lord, v15 will in no way precede those that have already fallen asleep (have died).

    Pat, just one short of 7! Thanks for the verses, we are sure in Christ, in Him we are full, the big 7.

  36. foreverblessed says:

    of topic, about the rapture
    Steve, the explanation of who Revelation is talking to, I find it very very thin.
    Ten years ago I first about this Rapture thing, and the woman explaining it to me was so afraid of these endtime troubles, that it was more fear then anything else to find an explanation of the Rapure which would give evidence that the church would not have to go through these troubles.
    To give an analogy to the Israelites:
    But the Israelites in Egypt were only protected from the plagues from the 4th one onwards, it is first mentioned that the Israelites were protected (Exodus 8:22). So they probably would have noticed some about the first 3.

    Maybe we will have to go through some of these things.
    Like Corrie ten Boom had to as well, and her message was:
    No matter how deep life will be, Jesus will go deeper with you.
    As she found out that Jesus was walking next to her in that Nazi camp.
    In other words, whatever will happen, Jesus is with us.
    That is the most hopefull message to preach.
    And also dure, while the interpretation of the rapure might be misunderstood easily.
    Steve, I am not throwning darts, just asking questions.

  37. foreverblessed says:

    See also Daniel 11:33-35
    Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.
    Here you see that tribulation is part of the training plan for some of the wise.
    And to talk about Corrie, she really was a very reborn christian, and yet had to go through these troubles, and see how gracious her message became after that: purified, and sefined, a good tool in God’s hand.

  38. SFDBWV says:

    foreverblessed, it is ok that you think my explanation is thin, that’s ok.

    It is also the thinking of many scholars and theological experts and thinkers, so I am at least in somewhat good compny.

    If you need peace about the matter, pray about it. I have peace about the matter.

    Steve

  39. foreverblessed says:

    Thanks Steve for answering, who are these experts and theological thinkers?

  40. foreverblessed says:

    To speak in terms of Mart:
    What if these scholars were wrong about the fact that the rapture will be at Revelation 4:1
    The church is still around after Revelation 4:1 if you consider the following:
    (Another sentence Mart often uses:)
    Could it be possible that the horses mentioned in Revelation 6 have already been riding out:
    -the white horse, the conquerer, how many big conquerers have been around? Hilter was one, Napoleon, go back in time and you will find more
    -the red horse: the sword, the killing fields of WW1 and WW2, the killing fields in Asia,
    the Huns riding over Europe in the 4th century bringing disaster by the sword.
    -the black horse, the hunger, he has been riding in Africa a long time already
    -the pale horse: the pestilence, for instance: during the 14 th century in Europe where the pestilence killed one third of the population. Wasn’t that the pale horse riding out? What about the native peoples of America being killed by disaeses?
    Jesus talks about it too in Matthew 24v 7 to 8

    Then you have the 5th seal… all the saints being slain, what about the martyrs under the inquisition during the middle ages, in my area 2000 people have been killed around 1500 because their faith in Jesus was not
    exactly the same as Rome wanted it to be. In Revelation 6v11 it is asked: how long: the answer is till the number of their fellow servants to be killed as they have been, had been completed.
    Jesus talks about this too in Matthew
    24v9 and He is talking to us, isn´t He? So if He talks to us in v9, why isn´t He talking to us in v 15.

    You see, there are different interpretations, and I am having a hard time when Steve states as if these interpretations he gives are a matter of fact, while they are still fiction, things in the future. Maybe they
    will be different,

    I am also having a hard time saying that we will be spared through a rapture while Rev 6v11 says something else.
    What ever happens to us, Jesus is with us..
    He is the Alpha and the Omega, He is there at the beginning of our lives and He is there at the end of our lives, when troubles take it.
    Revelation 1v8 21v5 to 7
    And now Today He is also with us, and we are asked to come to Him and be at rest totally, and be at peace.

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