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Simchat Torah and Clarification

Yesterday was a day of Jewish celebration called Simchat Torah.

During the day in the Jewish Quarter, and then after sundown at the Western Wall, we saw groups of Orthodox men enthusiastically dancing and singing around elaborate encased Torah scrolls.

They were celebrating the end of their annual Torah readings and the beginning of a new cycle.

24 hours later, am back in my room after being on the road to Haifa and back. We did some work today at a preserved “detention camp” outside of Haifa that was used following the 2nd world war.

There’s quite a story behind this camp that the British used to hold illegal Jewish immigrants who were looking for sanctuary in their ancestral homeland. Boat loads of desperate Jewish immigrants were taken into custody, decontaminated with DDT, and kept behind barbed wire before being sent back out of the country or to other holding camps in Cyprus. We heard stories of immigrants who felt like they were once again in Nazi camps– here in what they hoped would be a welcoming and safe place.

Now for the clarification: I know that my last post has once again surfaced some tension among us. I don’t expect us all to be on the same page, and hope this doesn’t deepen our disagreements. Certainly nations and people groups have every reason to be concerned about and to defend their own security.

But for those who are wondering, here’s  what I was asking in my last post, “What are We Celebrating? and why.”

I was writing in response to seeing, during this round of Jewish Holidays, an influx of international Christians who were not only sharing in the joy of the season– but also strongly aligning themselves spiritually and politically with Israel.

It was in that context that I was wondering whether such persons understand what they are actually supporting when they express political, social, or spiritual solidarity with either side of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (James 3:14-16; 4:1-4)?

My understanding is that followers of Christ are called to represent, first and foremost, the One who died for all Jewish and Gentile people. This, I’m convinced, requires that we not become entangled in political or nationalistic debates that demonize one group while failing to see the evil in the other.

To be a friend of Israel we cannot afford to overlook the fact that “not everyone who is born into a Jewish family is truly a Jew” (Rom 9:6). Neither can we afford to acknowledge that in the last days only 1/3 of the Jewish people will end up surviving judgment—to be “the Lord’s people” (Zechariah 13:9).

A similar proportion of the world’s population will also be judged.

Here’s the real issue. Those who are trying to show the love and good news of Christ to the Jewish community know the damage that is done to their reputation when Christians are heard supporting the Palestinian cause without regard for the security and well being of Israel. It is just as true that those who are trying to show the love and good news of Christ to the Palestinian/Arab community know the damage that is done to their mission when Christians are heard supporting the Jewish community without regard for the well being of Arab families.

To be peacemakers in Jesus name and “ministers of reconciliation” (with God and man), I believe Christ’s people need to be known as those who care for all.

The point of trying to express our Lord’s approach toward “evil” was to say that’s the way he sees all “unrepentant” or “self-centered hearts” (Luke 11:13; 34; Luke 13:1-5)—on both sides of a conflict that keeps the bad blood flowing.


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52 Responses to “Simchat Torah and Clarification”

  1. plumbape says:

    Between the conversion of Constantine in 312 and the conversion of Augustine in 386, the Christian movement had been transformed from a small, persecuted sect into a tolerated, then legally recognized, and finally officially established religion within the Roman Empire. While there were many benefits that came with this transformation, including the fact that Christians were no longer routinely hauled into the arena or fed to hungry lions, there was a downside as well.

    Within a few generations, those who had once been persecuted became persecutors. For the first time, Christians had to think about what it means to follow Jesus Christ while also participating in civil governance. What does it mean to wage a just war? Can followers of a Palestinian peasant who declined to call armies of angels to deliver him from physical assault now sanction violence against heretics and recalcitrant pagans in his name?

    With the assumptions of “Christendom” shaken again today by the forces of terror, Augustine teaches us that we must not equate any political entity—whether it be the Roman Empire, the American republic, the United Nations, or anything else—with the kingdom of God

    Theology for an age of terror
    Christianity Today

  2. poohpity says:

    I get a lump in my throat when I think of the dehumanization that some people groups do to other people groups. I can not even imagine what it was like to see those camps and know what was done to those human beings in the name of “whatever”, political, social or spiritual causes. It has not only been done to the Jewish peoples but Africans, Palestinians, Iraqis, Native’s of North America, Koreans, Chinese and so many other people groups in many other countries. It seems to be the result of the feelings of superiority of one people over another.

  3. poohpity says:

    Posted at the same time with you Indy Ape. Good to hear from you again. :-)

  4. phpatato says:

    I guess what you are saying in your clarification Mart is, that Christians should really be looking at this Palestinian-Arab-Israeli situation (or any other political unrest) the same way as The International Red Cross/Red Crescent (Red Star of David) does. This movement (founded in 1863), which set the stage for what is now known as The Geneva Convention, cares nothing of the political position each warring country has or who’s right and who’s wrong, they concentrate their efforts instead on humanitarian aid. It is because of basic principals such as Neutrality and Impartiality that countries from around the world allow them to fly their banner without fear to provide protection of the life and dignity of victims of international and internal armed conflicts. They are known as “those who care for all.”

  5. SFDBWV says:

    This blog as I have always understood it, is a place whereby Mart gives us a topic, makes some personal observations, then allows for us to give our observations and comments as well.

    They may differ they may agree, with what Mart has statted. But that is the point.

    To have different ideas so that we might look at things from different views.

    We might change, we might solidify our personal thinking, but either is stll ok.

    We do not have to agree and in so doing we should not fear the condemnation of other bloggers who may seek out words in an attempt to insult or devalue what we have said or our position on issues.

    This dose harm to any people who are not yet Christian, and see our constant bickering and arguing as….evil.

    Thank you Mart De Haan for the freedom to express ourselves here, even if we sometime bump heads.

    Steve

  6. SFDBWV says:

    For me, I have always understood Mart’s position on the issue of Israel and Palestine.

    My faith is a Christian faith. But when the non Christian world looks at Christianity, and hears me make that statement, they may then ask “which Christian sect do you belong to?”. Or they may encapsulate all christians together as being the same. Either way they are most often confused.

    My faith may be centered on one individual, Jesus of Nazareth, but my faith is also defined and explained by the Word of God.

    This Word of God is a living written Word. The Bible…It is divided into two main parts, the first part is a Hebrew book of books. That same Book being that which the Jews who Mart mentioned are celebrating as the Simchat Torah.

    The second part of our Bible is the Testimony of Jesus of Nazareth as being the promised messiah. A testimony of his birth and death and resurection. All of which were given in prophecy in that other collection of Hebrew books, the Torah.

    Whereas the two books are sewn togetter as one Book, so are our faiths. I as Christian get my information from writtings found in the Torah, and in the Testimony of Jesus Christ.

    I am not able to seperate the two.

    I appreciate the difficulty for missionaries to attempt to bring Christianity, or the Gospel, to Islamic peoples or nations. Because they hate the Jew, they are only inflamed by any possitive attitudes or action toward the people of Israel.

    That makes it very difficult to attempt to reach these lost people.

    Because the followers of Islam, believe the first five books of our Bible to be true, missionaries are often taught to present Jesus from only these five books and of course the NT teachings.

    So then are we free to express our faith as it being a Hebrew based faith, or are we to remain silent and not present the full Gospel, because we are held hostage to the hatered of Islam?

    Steve

  7. SFDBWV says:

    Beautiful frosty morning here in West Virginia, 31 degrees fahrenheit.

    Steve

  8. poohpity says:

    The verses in (James 3:14-16; 4:1-4)show us where our heart is with our speech. The bible I use also has a chart I would like to share about speech that was below those verses in James.

    When our speech is motivated by:
    Satan——It is full of Jealousy, Selfishness, Earthly concerns (politics), Unspiritual thought and ideas, disorder, evil.

    God and His wisdom—–It is full of Mercy, love for others, peace, courtesy, yielding to others, sincerity, straightforwardness, quiet gentleness, goodness.

    As you can identify a tree by the fruit it produces, you can evaluate your wisdom by the way you act. How pleasant it is to be around peacemakers.

  9. poohpity says:

    Pat, that would be nice wouldn’t it?

  10. poohpity says:

    I think that is what God had intended for Israel to be a healing balm of God to those around it but then they walked away from Him and decided to do things their own way.

  11. phpatato says:

    Pooh

    The irony of this is what lies behind the emblems. As the Red Cross movement was started in Geneva Switzerland, the founder Henry Dunant, thought that the flag should be the reverse of Switzerland’s flag…instead of a red background and a white cross, it would be a white background with a red cross. However, because Turkey and other islamic countries saw the flag as being derived from Christian roots, the Red Crescent was adopted in 1929 which so far has 33 islamic states recognizing it. In 1935, Israel requested that they be able to fly the Red Star of David arguing that the cross and the crescent represented the Christian and muslim nations. So far it has not be recognized by the Geneva Convention as a protected symbol. The argument there was that the red cross does not symbolize Christianity but the reversed Swiss flag and the thought is that if they allowed Israel their own flag then every other religious group in the world would request their own flag (even though the muslims got their red crescent!).

    The future will see a new flag gradually introduced throughout the world to ward off pressure from Israel’s Red Star of David (Magen David Adom). It will be offically known as the Third Protocol Emblem but will most commonly be known as the Red Crystal (a red diamond on a white background).

    These days, there is a growing concern that these flags now mean nothing. With the al-qaida now having firmly planted terrorist cells in untold amount of countries, and because they have no regard for innocent human life (example: suicide bomb attacks), there is no protection offered to anybody who wears any of the “RED” armbands.

    So what was meant to be impartial and neutral, turned out to be very religious anyway.

  12. poohpity says:

    Pat, that seems to be the same with Christians we were given to go and tell the Good News to the ends of the earth but we take political sides and fight fights that are not ours to fight. We want people to live by our standards instead of us living by them and being an example to follow. It all is so messed up especially when we demand our own way.

    Religions were created by man for man but hopefully we have a personal relationship that needs constant care so we are not sucked into the world’s values and beliefs. If we live by the guidelines laid before us with the help of the Holy Spirit then we will not be after the praise of other human beings but give praise to God.

  13. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Steve, I totally understand that we as Christians are also Hebrew by faith, but why do you disregard Islam when they also follow Abraham?

    Bob

  14. phpatato says:

    Pooh, you said, “We want people to live by our standards”…
    What is the standard that Christians are living by..true born-again Christians?….I would like to think it is the standard found in the Bible. The standard that God is expecting us, as His children,to live by. When I witness, I want others to live by that standard. That is the only standard that is true and pure and right.

    There are in my opinion, fights that we must fight. One being the fight of good against evil.

    Romans 12:9 (Amplified Bible)
    9[Let your] love be sincere (a real thing); hate what is evil [loathe all ungodliness, turn in horror from wickedness], but hold fast to that which is good.

    Romans 12:9 (New Living Translation)
    9 Don’t just pretend to love others. Really love them. Hate what is wrong. Hold tightly to what is good.

    There is a religion in this world that denounces Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

    “Say: “God is Unique! God, the Source [of everything]. He has not fathered anyone nor was He fathered, and there is nothing comparable to Him!” (Quran 112:1-4).

    “…….”People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to God nothing except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God…..”do not say: ‘God is a Trinity.’ Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. God is indeed just One God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. (Quran 4:171)

    When any religion of this world tells me that my LORD AND SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST, is not God the Son, that He is not part of the Trinity, that He was merely just a messenger…THAT to me is evil. I will abhor that evil and will run from the wickedness that anyone adhering to those thoughts has. Matt 12:30 rings in my mind. There is no sitting on the fence with Him. There is no lukewarm in the thought process, one is either Hot for Him or cold. You are so right, we are not to be sucked into the world’s values and beliefs.

    And I’m not so sure that Christians can take all of the credit of demanding their own way. Seems to me that there is another religion out there that is taking that to a whole new level.

    I am not trying to be disrespectful Pooh, I am just furthering your comment as “what seems to me”.

  15. davids says:

    phpatato, you write, “When any religion of this world tells me that my LORD AND SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST, is not God the Son, that He is not part of the Trinity, that He was merely just a messenger…THAT to me is evil.”

    But that is basically what every non-Christian believes. The Jews, Athiests, Hindus, Buddhists and the rest deny that Jesus was the Son of God, and those that have sacred writings would point to them to “prove” the point.

    We are not called to preach to believers, but to the unbelieving.

  16. davids says:

    Mart, I don’t know how you get any work done there. It sounds like they’re always celebrating something. Maybe we should celebrate more often too!

  17. phpatato says:

    Davids

    Those other religions are not using suicide bombs to “prove” the point.

  18. poohpity says:

    Pat, I said that because we have no control over others we can not make anyone do anything. God doesn’t even make anyone do anything. He wants each person to make those choices for themselves.

  19. poohpity says:

    Pat my whole statement was , “We want people to live by our standards instead of us living by them and being an example to follow.” Part of the sentence can not be taken out to get the whole picture of what I was saying.

  20. phpatato says:

    Pooh

    I believe I must be suffering a “senior’s moment” well before my time because I have totally misunderstood your comment. But with the way my brain has been working lately, I am not surprised :-). I am going to put out a feeble excuse of it being the weather. I believe we surpassed the total rainfall record for the month of September…a record that was set in 1945. A wet and dreary month has my brain soggy and sluggish.

    In fact, I must admit that I am still missing the meaning unless you are meaning that we are hypocrites by expecting others to live by a standard that we ourselves don’t live by???

    Davids

    To further add, I understand that as Christians, we are to called to preach to unbelievers. It’s just that I am almost convinced now that with this particular group (those especially who are “militant” believers), their hearts have hardened to a point that no amount of love by us with soften them. Their hatred runs deep. Ephesians 6:12 is becoming more and more real and I believe that it will take GOD’s specially chosen, HOLY SPIRIT-protected army of “Davids” to fight this Goliath battle …the way that I see it anyway.

  21. Regina says:

    Good Evening All
    Had a busy day yesterday… Grocery shopping which took me 3 hours! We were (seemingly) out of everything, and I love to get the best deal (also had other chores). Son’s home for the weekend. He attended the U. of Texas/Okla. Univ. football game at our State Fair. OU won to my son’s great joy. He attends OU, and he’s a serious fan of their football team.

    foreverblessed – I second Steve’s comment (from the previous blog topic)… good insight and understanding of evil.
    Mart – Glad you made it safely to Haifa.
    Bob – The weather cycle is on track in Texas too. ..eighty to ninety degree days.

    Mart said, “To be a friend of Israel we cannot afford to overlook the fact that “not everyone who is born into a Jewish family is truly a Jew” (Rom 9:6). Neither can we afford to acknowledge that in the last days only 1/3 of the Jewish people will end up surviving judgment—to be “the Lord’s people” (Zechariah 13:9).”

    Wow. I didn’t know that only a 1/3 of the Jewish people will survive in the last days. Still reading the book of Revelation; it’s so wonderfully intriguing… Read Chapter 8 today, and the fraction, “1/3” is mentioned several times. Was wondering why that amount is so (spiritually) significant.

    Referenced a few verses for you here…

    Rev. 8:7-11 NLT
    7) The first angel blew his trumpet, and hail and fire mixed with blood were thrown down on the earth. One-third of the earth was set on fire, one-third of the trees were burned, and all the green grass was burned.

    8) Then the second angel blew his trumpet, and a great mountain of fire was thrown into the sea. One-third of the water in the sea became blood, 9) one-third of all things living in the sea died, and one-third of all the ships on the sea were destroyed.

    10) Then the third angel blew his trumpet, and a great star fell from the sky, burning like a torch. It fell on one-third of the rivers and on the springs of water. 11) The name of the star was Bitterness. It made one-third of the water bitter, and many people died from drinking the bitter water.

    Thank you for the information shared in this blog topic, Mart. It’s so refreshing to understand–in a more meaningful way–where we should place our allegiance, in, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.

    Loved the poem in the ODB reading today, and I want to share it with you all…

    Cling to the Bible; this jewel and treasure
    Brings life eternal and saves fallen man;
    Surely its value no mortal can measure;
    Seek for its blessing, O soul, while you can. –Smith

    Blessings,

  22. poohpity says:

    Pat, I do not feel it could really be called Hypocrisy, I think it is more a lack of understanding. It is hard to look inside at the things we need to work on yet it is really so easy to look how somebody else is not living up to those standards. If we do more self examination it is hard to point fingers at others because we see how we mess up so much. It keeps the judging and criticizing down so we can be peacemakers and caring for all peoples.

  23. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Good Morning, I am awake early this morning (4am) as the wind and rain and sea are making so much noise.
    Off to work in a couple of hours so hope it quiets down a bit.

    I have just read Romans 9: and think I understand a little bit more about our inheritance as the people of God. It is based on Promise and not blood line as such.
    Our Promise and Inheritance is in the Blood line of Jesus of Nazareth, who is the first born of many brethren, not just Jewish brethren.

    Also Pat and Davids, thanks for spelling out Islam’s denouncing of Jesus as the Son of God.
    I think I understand more now why Steve and others rally against Islam, but as Davids said, every non-christian says the same about Jesus.
    I guess we need to love our enemies no matter who they are or what they believe.

    Bob

  24. SFDBWV says:

    Good morning all, I would like to say that in my heart as well as in my thinking, there is a difference between a person and a spirit.

    I hold no ill will toward any man any where. I would want the blessings of God for all peoples everywhere, and for all to have the Spirit Of Christ behind their efforts and actions.

    But I know only too well that, that day hasn’t yet arrived.

    I am somewhat supprised that Mart has allowed for this conversation to continue, for in the past he has edited out any attempts from us to say any thing specificaly bad about Islam.

    The purpose being that he didn’t want friends of RBC who are in Islamic countries to have a harder time as of the result.

    So it is with caution that I proceed, out of respect for his wishes as well as for those Christians who are in danger in Islam.

    1 John 2:22 “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.”
    :23 “Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:[but] he that acknowledgeth the Son haith the Father also.”

    People are pretty much the same everywhere in all of the world. We all laugh, we all get hungry, we all feel love and seek happyness…So what is the problem, why can’t we all get along?

    Sin is the problem. The story of man and how sin has destroyed all of the blessings and desires God had for every one of us, is explained in great detail, in His writtings…the Bible. The Book of Books. The Torah.

    The story of how God has provided a pathway and a doorway back into fellowship with Him, is also recorded in this self same Bible…Added is the Testimony of that person by whom peace is made with God. The Testimony of Jesus of Nazareth.

    We spoke of evil earlier, there is a spiritual entity given in scripture who personifies evil. He is given several names but we all know him as Satan.

    He is a liar, and a very crafty deceiver. There is no ability in him to create, but only to distort and pervert that which has already been created.

    He is also filled with vanity and pride and seeks the worship of mankind.

    He has over time been able to learn how to be better at his deceptions as he seduces men into his web.

    In the scripture verses I mentioned above, he who does not acknowledge the Son does not have the Father.

    If you believe this, then all of the many religions of our world that deny Christ, has not God the Father as their religious head nor heart, but a usurper and pretender to the throne.

    All that is then given as teaching from those false religions, are given in an attempt to lie, decieve and keep people from the true fellowship of God and ultimately eternal seperation from Him.

    This is why it is so serious and so important, not to be decieved by the idea that all religions lead to God, they do not.

    Steve

  25. SFDBWV says:

    Christianity presents itself with open arms and with love. All inclusive, no distinction between people, races or languages.

    At the beginning Jesus told His disciples to go only to the house of Israel ( Matt 10:5-6 ), then in John 4 Jesus Himself seems to violate His own instructions with the story of the Samaritan woman at the well, a hint of things to come.

    Recorded in John 8 is the conversations between Jesus and the *holy* men of Israel.

    There he states He is the light of the world, and they accuse Him of bragging falsely, He then says I bear witness of myself and the Father that sent me bears witness of me as well (8:18)[ another hint at the Trinity]

    Here in the Temple, stands the promised Messiah. If the scribes and pharisees had did their homework, they would have recognized this date and these events as being the prophecy of the coming Messiah, but they missed it because they had not kept up their part of the bargain between God and them as keepers of the Word.

    Amazingly Jesus says then to them “I go my way, and ye shall seek me,and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.”

    He continues to condem the Jew’s there and tells them if they were the children of Abraham they would do as he did, but that they are the devils children, and to complete His insults He proclaims Himself to be the Great I AM…whereby they took up stones to cast at Him.

    Jesus now only speaks in parables, only clearly when He is with the Disciples for His intentions to not be misunderstood.

    In John 10:1 Jesus says that he that enters the sheepfold by any other means than the door, is a thief and robber….then in verse 7 clearly says “I am the door”.

    Jesus continues to restate that He is the door, if any man enter he shall be saved :9 but the man who enters another way (the thief)comes only to steal, kill and destroy.:10

    So as the rest of the story goes, we Christians are all adopted together as children of Abraham, we become a nation or a gathering of people called together for a great holy purpose (1 Peter 2:9).

    Israel has a futher purpose in God’s plans. All future events are centered around her as written in scripture. She also has a rebirth as a special people at the end of our story (Rev 7).

    All other nations of the earth also have a purpose in God’s future plans, but apart from salvation, they are used as a tool by which God’s will and judgement is poured out upon mankind.

    It is Jesus’s will and a commandment to us to go into all nations of the world and teach them, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (Matt 28:19).

    Teaching them what? To observe all things, whatsoever He commanded us.

    Where do we find *all* things He command us…From Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21….He being the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, Author of all scripture.

    There is no other scripture.

    Steve

  26. poohpity says:

    Mart,
    Thank you so much about focusing on the conflict all around by the misunderstanding and misapplication of scripture. I also thank you for seeing the need in our past discussions of marital and dating abuse that you focused the DOD new series on it. Amen!!! I know it will benefit many.

  27. rokdude5 says:

    Good morning folks.

    For me the question at hand is – Why we are celebrating? I think if I was there, I would joined in the celebration because we have a God who loves us so much that He sent His Son to die for our sins so that we can be in His presence again as He always wanted from the beginning. The Torah points to that even as far back as the early chapters of Genesis!! BUT….He wants us to love Him and our neighbors as well.

    I remembered on that tragic day of Sept 11, 2001 where thousands of people died at the hands of Islamic fundamentalists. That following Sunday, I also remembered when the praise team was quickly rehearsing songs, someone who was in charge of putting up chairs came up to the stage and moved the American flag to the center of the stage. My praise team leader quickly shot at him, “Please put the flag back where it belongs. This isnt about America right now…its about God.”

    I was thinking to myself, how can I love my neighbors who caused so much harm to us? Matt 5:43,44 But this is what our God wants us to do! Going back to the scenario thats going on in the Middle East presents us with a formidable task. How nice it would be if we can all parties just sit down and talk and see how this can be all worked out for the benefit of everyone but the diplomatic challenges are daunting!!

    The best and only thing I can do about this is pray for God’s will to be done. RJ

  28. scout1 says:

    Steve, as always, very well spoken. Thank you.

    Mart, safe travels, my friend!

    Lynda

  29. saled says:

    The most astounding example of loving neighbors who caused so much harm was when the Amish community who lost their school children showed compassion and mercy to the family of the man responsible for the death of the Amish children. The particular brand of Christianity that I was brought up in doesn’t believe that the Amish are saved. But I have never seen a more Christ-like response.

  30. poohpity says:

    Amen, RJ, it isn’t about us it is about God and what he would like us to do and be, peacemakers. Very good example of the topic. Thank you for the blessing.

  31. poohpity says:

    Amen Sally!!

  32. poohpity says:

    That reminds me of the verse, “No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us” -1 John 4:12

  33. poohpity says:

    I was wondering if you guys/gals would pray for my daughter, Shanna. She had gastric bypass surgery 2 years ago and has suffered terrible consequences of which the latest is her life is in jeopardy. We have been estranged since my mothers death last year and all I want to do is hold her. She is in South Carolina. Her physical and mental health is slipping away. Please left her up into the hands of Jesus. Thank you.

  34. SFDBWV says:

    Deborah, Without question, we are very saddenned to heard of Shanna’a struggle, she and You will be in our prayers.

    Steve

  35. davids says:

    Deborah, you and your daughter are in my prayers.

    Steve, thanks you for your insightful posts. I love the 8th chapter of John’s gospel, but then I love all of that gospel.

    phpatato, yes, some are probably unreachable.

    David

  36. scout1 says:

    Deborah, I will also keep Shanna and you in prayer. Let us know how she is doing.

    Lynda

  37. BruceC says:

    Deb,

    I will pray for your daughter Shanna and for you also. Our God is an awesome God!!!

    BruceC

  38. Regina says:

    Good (late) Evening All
    As usual, I’ve enjoyed reading all of the comments on this blog topic. Thanks to all for sharing your thoughts and wisdom. Not feeling my best today. Took an allergy med a few minutes ago and sucking on a cough drop right now.

    butch – I didn’t hear Pres. Obama speak on “collective salvation.” I did, however, hear him say (emphatically) that Jesus Christ was his LORD and Savior. Because he used those words (specifically), I’m convinced that he’s born-again.

    It’s my understanding, which has been supported by other comments in this blog, that Muslims don’t believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. So, a Muslim wouldn’t make a statement like that unless they had put their faith and trust in Jesus. Thinking about Romans 10:9-10 NLT:
    9) If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10) For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.

    Felt a change in the weather today. Think it may have been high 60’s to low 70’s.

    Blessings,

  39. Regina says:

    Pooh – Shanna will be in my prayers too.

  40. bubbles says:

    Deb,
    Shanna will be in my prayers, and so will you.

  41. SFDBWV says:

    Mart takes the time to point out in his opening statement that the English had placed the Jews who had illegaly attempted to enter Palestine into concentration camps, before being deported or sent to other countries.

    The point being that the English controlled this country and through it’s rules and laws any peoples wanting to immigrate there had to go through their process in order to do so.

    I find it amusing, because God always confounds man’s plans…Man never realizing the futility of coming up against God’s will on any matter.

    Nothing was going to stop the Jews from reclaiming their ancestrial homeland, because it was God’s will for them to do so.

    The time for them to come home had come. Though God had given them this and more in many years past, they had failed to keep up their end of the bargain.

    Wanted a king instead of God as their leader, they invited foreign religions into their land and became seduced by them.

    They followed the lead of their *kings* and lost sight of their purpose. Though time and time again, God punished them, they returned to their sin.

    In the end, they rejected their redeemer and as was fortold was scattered among the nations, their temple torn down and not a stone remaining, cast out of their home land.

    But…The nation of Israel has to exist as a nation, for the prophecies of the end times to take place.

    So it begins, first with the immigrants who forced their way back into their old homeland, led by a necessity to survive and directed by a God they think had abandon them.

    Had this not been God’s will, the nation we know of today as Israel would not have succeeded in establishing a homeland once again for the Jew.

    And become a burden to the rest of the world.

    Steve

  42. SFDBWV says:

    Because I believe that the emergence of Israel as a nation is God’s will.

    To ally myself against Israel would place me in opposition to God’s will and His desires.

    This is not where my heart is led, my heart is led to follow God’s will in every matter great and small.

    So as I have said again and again, I have allied myself with the nation of Israel and pray for her success as well as pray for the souls of all lost people, in every land or of every language…For I believe this to be God’s will.

    Steve

  43. pegramsdell says:

    Deb, lifting Shanna up in prayer. Be comforted, by His stripes we are healed. Love you.

  44. rokdude5 says:

    Will do Deb. I hope youll find some comfort in seeing how we all are lifting you and Shana up in prayers. RJ

  45. poohpity says:

    Thank you all so very, very much. I praise God that He will provide for her and I have comfort in knowing that through the prayers of His Saints.

    While reading Eph 6 this morning I realized that may be where the problem lies with aligning our self with Israel alone. Although God used Israel to bring us our Savior the blood line also deviated from only Jews. Jesus is the Savior of the whole world and I would like to believe that we are all special to Him. I do not believe God thinks as we do with our children sometime we may have a favorite. I feel like God loves all His children the same, some are just easier to love than others.

    I hope one day we realize that this fight is not about mankind against mankind but about the battle against spiritual darkness and the prince of this world. Our weapons of warfare are peace, love, faith, hope and a complete trust in God. If we are waring against other human beings then we will take pride in our victories and if we do as we were instructed by trusting in God who is the only one who can see a man’s heart then we won’t have blood on our hands or anger in our hearts. I would rather have water, food, clothes and care on my hands. Spreading the Gospel of Peace on my sandals while I praise God with my lips and heart.

    Trust me I have the deepest regard for our military because they are following the government’s direction which God has seen fit to put over us. That is their job but I want to do the job God has given me.

  46. foreverblessed says:

    Pooh, you and your daughter are also in myb prayers, and that God may use this for reconciliation.
    What I writ is in the same line as what Pooh wrote above.
    Yesterday was the day of prayer for the peace of Jerusalem
    Psalm 122:6-7
    In my church one person gave a speech on this topic,
    That the peace we pray for is only though Jesus.
    In Ephesisans 2
    For He Himself is our peace v14..
    v 15 making one new man out of the two (the Jew and the Gentile)
    and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which He put to death their hostility.
    17 He came to preach peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

    Also Isaiah 62 was mentioned,
    that it is not about Jerusalem, but because the job for the earth of Jerusalem will be to bring praise to God, v7

    If Jesus put to death their hostility, we have to put to death in us the hostility we have to enemies.
    Our enemies, and also the enemies of Israel.

  47. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Not too sure of my facts here, but I think the League of Nations wanted Britain to establish a homeland for the Jews early in the 20th century but we put it off, and then after two world wars and finacial ruin we still resisted and ended up with Jewish terrorist, who later became her leaders, fighting us in the streets for Jerusalem.
    Being British we then compromised and thats how we ended up with a divided land that could not accomadate the Jews or Palistinians.
    Seems we made a mess of things but, as Steve said, it was Gods will and timing!
    We then went on to divide the Arabian peninsula into Saudi, Iraq, Kuwait etc. and look where that has lead to.

    Bob

  48. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Deb,
    I also pray for reconciliation with Shanna and yourself

  49. davids says:

    Steve,

    I hear what you’re saying, but I’m not quite sure what you mean, especially about allying against Israel.

    The nation of Israel is spread throughout the world. A minority live in the prophesized re-established state if Israel. At least as many live in the US. Some are very coservative, and many are merely secular.

    Some agree with the current policies and others do not. Even within the state of Israel, there are many political parties. It seems that there is a difference between supporting the state of Israel and agreeing with all of its policies.

    You might have read today that overnight some Jewish Settlers went into a nearby town and set the mosque on fire – not the first time that’s happened. If the Israeli government condemns this action I will applaud that. Otherwise, I will say that they should not allow hate crimes. I am certainly not justifying at all the hate crimes committed by Palestinians by this.

    Maybe I’m not understanding you well, but I think that this relates directly to Mart’s post above.

  50. tandgmartin says:

    Mart,

    Thanks for an insightful article.

  51. davids says:

    Just to follow up on my last post above, the Israeli Prime Minister did condemn the mosque attack. Furthermore, another group of Jewish settlers gave new copies of the Koran to the mosque, and said that the attack contradicts Jewish values. Nice to see people make the effort for peace, even if it doesn’t make the headlines.

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