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Finding a Reference Point

In the crossfire of desire against desire, we live with the opposing longings of spirit and flesh. (Gal 5:17).

Sometimes the choice between the two seems clear. Sometimes I get so confused that I find myself needing to go back to a reference point for what is real (rather than what I’m imagining). One of those “reality checks” for me has been Paul’s words,  “No one speaking by the Spirit of God can curse Jesus, and no one is able to say (i.e. honestly from the heart), “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.” (1Cor 12:3).

Photo: By Tori Jo

On some days that becomes my square 1. At that point I’ve found myself thinking something like, “By God’s grace, in this moment, I want to think and act in a way that reflects the presence, power, and love of Christ in my life.” As retro as that might seem, and for what it’s worth, I’ve sometimes found in that choice of desire a way forward out of the default longings of natural inclination.

Note: the conversation on the last post has been so good and honest up to this point, I haven’t wanted to interrupt it. Hope the above comment will add rather than detract…


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26 Responses to “Finding a Reference Point”

  1. scout1 says:

    Hi Mart.

    I really liked what you wrote from Paul. It makes me think of all kinds of examples in the Bible. Like when Jesus talked about understanding the parables – having eyes to see yet not gettin’ the point! I think that is a time when we can have evidence of the Holy Spirit within us. Yeah!

    But, talk about mixed desires -when Peter desired to give his life, devoted all his love – then – denied Jesus three times! His desire was there, what happened? Jesus told him ahead of time what he would do and loved and forgave him ahead of time. If you had asked Peter, he would have said and did say – His desire was completely for Jesus. But, we are human and God still loves us! :) Have a great day!

    What will the Lord do with my desires today? I just pray that I’m submissive to Him.

    Lynda

  2. SFDBWV says:

    My reference point may always be John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled….

    I would suppose that there have been several “watershed” moments in my life. So there are sometimes points where I have to remember them and where they have brought me to where I am.

    Battling against the flesh may sound easy, but not only is it not easy, but is not intended to be.

    No muscle can be toned or grow without exercising it.

    So it is with my spiritual strength, it has to be exercised in order for me to grow.

    How many times have I had to repeat a lesson over and over again only to finally reaize the futility of not giving it all to Christ. The full and total surrender of my desires to the unknown trust that God’s desire for me will far overshadow the minor wants I may now think are important to me.

    Reference point? Remembering that there is a God, and I am not Him.

    Steve

  3. poohpity says:

    My natural inclination is to run around trying to solve problems for my children and some others and in that I find my pride which is so wrong. The reference point I run to is Psalm 46:10 my life verse,”Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth.” It brings me to the point that what may be a solution for me may not be what the Lord has for someone else that is my pride speaking or to look down on others, or to be selfish with my resources, or to think God is blessing me because of my merits, or to be content with my plans rather than seeking God’s plans.

    Finding the reference point and that being God/Jesus it truly humbles me. That His ways are far better than anything I can come up with and I will never truly understand His thoughts but with the Holy Spirit I CAN DO just what he has given me to do. Each little step at a time.

  4. Hisgirl4life says:

    Still on the topic of desires, I was reading in Gal. 5:16 today. “Live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.” The list of sinful nature is lengthy. Many of us are familiar with verse 23 which lists the fruit of the spirit (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control). Verse 24 continues by saying, “Those who belong to Christ Jesus have cruicified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.” As we daily surrender our longings and desires to God, His Holy Spirit enables us to choose right over wrong, depend upon Him to lead us in our daily walk, while bringing conviction when we sin and react out of our fleshly desires and thoughts.

    I need to apologize for confusing names on the last blog. Some use real names here, others a user name. There is sometimes a need for anonymity, but hopefully that does not hinder honesty. Bruce, I pray you will forgive me for interchanging your name when speaking to Michael. I pray your wife, Bruce, will have peace as she awaits surgery in December.

    Michael, please know, as I believe I can speak on behalf of other bloggers here, this is a place where the name of Jesus Christ is lifted up and honored and praised above ALL. It is my intent, as with many other dear ones here, that this is a place of love, not condemnation or judgement…a place of honesty and a place where others pray for sometimes great needs and adversity. On that note…it is my hope and prayer that you will prayerfully seek wise counsel as you are going through tremendous adversity in your life. The Bible is your first source, followed by Godly and wise mentors. I know the hardship and brokenness of divorce…it is never easy to say goodbye to someone you love, even when there is abuse. God’s description of love found in 1 Cor. 13 is an example we all can lift up and ask God to fulfill and live out in each of us. I’ve entrusted my ex-husband to God and laid him upon His altar, just like Abraham laid Isaac, to allow God to work and do a work within his heart (and mine) that only He himself can accomplish. Please know you are in my prayers and the prayers of many here…the brokenness of a lost loved one is one of the greatest losses of all.

    I pray we will all be sensitive and encouragers to those that have walked in different paths in life with different shoes than our own. Thank you Mart for giving us wonderful topics to dig into God’s amazing Word…the Bible. I pray we will all become a bit more like Him in the process.

  5. SFDBWV says:

    I don’t want to sound like I am repeating myself all the time (an ailment common to old folks), but I will say that…

    Each and every day I start off with early morning prayers. A conversation, a plea, an attempt to communicate my hearts desires as well as the principal focal pressures I am experiancing at the moment…To God the Father

    Including the lifting up those people whom have ask for intersession or prayers on their behalf.

    Each day is an entire new life for me with unknown obsticles that await me, as well as the moment to moment pressures life can bring.

    So in prayer, as I ask for many itemized requests, it is always concluded with the concept that His will be done in all matters great and small.

    At the end of the day as Matthew and I come before God in prayer, sometimes it is difficult to thank God for the day. Sometimes the day didn’t go all that well.

    Sometimes thank you sticks in my throat. But I have to swallow and remember that He knows what I don’t, and understands what I can’t. So I can still be grateful for one more day together with the people I love.

    My place in life and all the drama and circumstances that brought me to where I am… Can sometimes be the best reference point for me. Remembering how God has brought me here, along with me every step of the way.

    Steve

  6. foreverblessed says:

    I am a little confused now about who is who, wasn’t BruceC just Bruce? Then who is Michael you are talking to, Hisgirl4ife.
    For the clarity of things it is easier to write to the blogname, then people who are new can easily find out who you talking to.
    To get things straight, who’s wife was it who had a lumb in the back? Was that Michael or BruceC?

    It is so good that we tell of our struggles, then we can pray for one another.
    Prayer is so powerfull. Steve,(SFDBWV) yes yes, Elijah was mentioned more in the New Testament, then was Elisha, and one point was his prayer life as an example for us:
    The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
    James 5:16-18
    a righteous person, meaning a person who is made right in Christ, so a person who seeks to live in Jesus every day more and more.

  7. pegramsdell says:

    When Steve said what his reference point was I thought of this scripture. So I guess this is my reference point. Knowing that He has plans for me and my life. This gives me such comfort.

    Jeremiah 29:
    11 For I know the plans I have for you,” says the Lord. “They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope. 12 In those days when you pray, I will listen. 13 If you look for me wholeheartedly, you will find me. 14 I will be found by you,” says the Lord. “I will end your captivity and restore your fortunes. I will gather you out of the nations where I sent you and will bring you home again to your own land.”

  8. Hisgirl4life says:

    Yes, foreverblessed it is best to use the blogname and that is what I will use from no on. Thanks for the reminder to all of us.

  9. Hisgirl4life says:

    That’s from now on…..

  10. poohpity says:

    I was thinking Mart about the item labeled #1 if I really believe in the grace that God has shown me why at times do I tend to hold others to a higher standard than what God holds me to. I have to really keep that in check and it does help to think about that before I act or say anything. Something to really be careful about, very good thought.

  11. SFDBWV says:

    A few years ago when I first started participating on this blog I kept a listing of all the blog names and their given names with it, when given.

    The list got huge and so I quit keeping every blogger listed and only kept it up with their real names.

    I like the personal touch, it makes me feel a little closer to the person. I do of course understand the confusion, especialy when an indivdual whoes name I know hasn’t commented for a while and I refer to him or her by their given name.

    But as a little segue into the topic, I keep the list here at the computer as a refence point to remind me who is who.

    You foreverblessed, ask me not to refer to your given name because of personal reasons, so as you requested I will not.

    But I have been signing my name to all my comments, just like I do to any letter I would write to a friend. My blog name appears at the top of my comments, so I don’t see any problem.

    Sorry if I have confused anyone, by being personal.

    Steve

  12. SFDBWV says:

    When I was a boy, the area I live in here in West Virginia was largely a wilderness of sorts.

    There were old tram roads, long abandoned that crisscrossed the back country, and there are creeks and special land formations that are like monuments standing unchanged for untold years.

    It was these natural and man made sights that always gave us a reference point so if we got lost or turned around; we needed to only climbed a tree or get high up and could see any of the these special places…We could get our bearings and back on track.

    So it is with life. When I get off track or lost, or even if my personal desires get in my way. I need only find thoes reference points to get me reoriented and back in the right direction.

    It is one of the things that my son Matthew brings to my life, sometimes he reminds me what my priorities are and brings me back to the reality of living right now, and doing so with the love of Christ.

    Beautiful morning 54 and clear….

    Steve

  13. scout1 says:

    Hey Steve – I love your last post. Thank you.

  14. SFDBWV says:

    Hey Lynda, you are most welcome.

    Steve

  15. dja says:

    Yes, thank you, Steve. I love your last post, too. Isn’t it wonderful how the Lord uses family, friends, and events of the day to get us back on track-to bring us to His Word and on our knees before Him. Our God is and awesome God!!
    I, too, like knowing first names. It is more personal.
    I would ask for prayer for my husband who has just recovered from cancer surgery and now has shingles.
    It’s 58 here in NEPA. A nice fall morning.
    Have a blessed day all!
    ~Della

  16. SFDBWV says:

    Della, My prayers for you and your husband for sure.
    My own first wife and Matthews mother, died from cancer Oct 20 2000…

    It is an amazing story of how God is in our lives and
    how the worst of circumstance can be used for His purposes, even if sad.

    With Matthews accident and her developing cancer, I had to quit working and take care of them. With little or no money.

    The people in our churches here held fund raisers for us and the local bank set up a donation account, so that anyone wishing to help could do so.

    With her passing, Matthew and I were able to connect to Social Secrurity and with insurance monies, we were able to go on…Her last act of sacrifice for us.

    Her mother, now 92, lives next door, she along with Glenna and Matthew and I now await God’s next move…

    I pray for your husbands cancer and struggle to have a better outcome. That God’s love keeps you both.

    Steve

  17. Hisgirl4life says:

    Thank you for your post Steve and your good example of reference points. Again, I apologize for misquoting anyone’s names.

  18. poohpity says:

    Friday of last week my step mother sent my dad’s biological grandkids, 3 are mine and 3 are my brothers, a letter asking if she could buy out their shares of his trust for the certain amount listed. There was no copy of the trust with the letter. I would not like to even share what I was thinking because over the 19 years they were married we may have had maybe 2 weeks of conversation between us if that. I discussed this with a member of our church who directed me to focus on my Reference point of Christ and think about only the good in her. I have had to pray for this continually because it is not an easy thing for me to do. I could not even sleep because it brought up so many bad memories which I have been working through but because of my reference point I have been going through the process of forgiveness and trying to give her the shadow of doubt. I must confess that this is extremely difficult but Christ keeps bringing me back to what I hold so dearly to and that is Him.

  19. foreverblessed says:

    About the reference point: I agree fully with what Pooh is writing:
    Fix your eyes on Jesus
    7 years ago I had these confrontations with a person in a christian ministry, who would play a power game.
    At that point it was as if Jesus was saying:Look to Me
    I tried doing that, but would go back to thinking about what the other person was doing, and how wrong it was…and there you go again, the anger comes, the frustration.
    And you get all grumpy and there goes your peace..
    It is better to look to Jesus, He is the Fountain of everything that is good, peace, forgiveness, grace, mercy..
    At that time it felt as a defeat..
    but now when people do nasty things to me, it is much easier for me to look to Jesus, because I know that I will be blessed through it.

    What is the scripture:
    Look to me and be saved Numbers 21:9
    the commentary in theAmplified Bible says:
    Jesus said that as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, “that everyone who believes in Him [who cleaves to Him, trusts Him and relies on Him] may not perish, but have eternal life and [actually] live forever!” (John 3:14, 15). Obviously this implies that the look that caused the victim of a fiery serpent to be healed was something far more than a casual glance. A “look” would save, but what kind of a look? The Hebrew text here means “look attentively, expectantly, with a steady and absorbing gaze.” Or, as Jesus said in the last verse of the chapter quoted above (John 3:36), “He who believes in (has faith in, clings to, relies on) the Son has (now possesses) eternal life.” But whoever does not so believe in, cling to, and rely on the Son “will never see… life.” The look that saves is not just a fleeting glance; it is a God-honoring, God-answered, fixed, and absorbing gaze!

  20. foreverblessed says:

    About the personal touch, when people sign with their name at the end of the comment, it is OK to use that. BUt if they do not, it is very hard for those who ones in a while read this to know who you are talking to, and that makes them feel as outsiders.

    I have been thinking about using my name, I have two christian names, the first name should have been used for my day to day name, but my mother didn’t like it, so she didn’t use it, much to the dismay of my grandmother. So in honor of my grandmother, who was called (a dutch abbreviation for Rita):
    Rie

  21. plumbape says:

    Hi brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus…!!
    I would like to introduce myself, Michael Holt, I have always used plumbape as a screen name and to remind me that I am just an ape *or sinner* like everyone else that needs the Love of Jesus. My screen name is not a need for anonymity and I am always honest on this blog as well as in life. I’m on facebook with a mug shot of my lovely two year old grand daughter and the ape, Michael. My desire is to please the Lord My God, not men. The adversity in my life is a pleasure to me because it finally helped me become REAL with Jesus. Just like Paul and some of the first century saints that was happy to be persecuted in the name of Jesus.

    My wife Sharon who is right here with me, knowing what I write, had a fine Catholic schooling and it left her getting pregnant by a married man and putting her up for adoption and on to drugs and years later someone like me. Now I would have guessed God would use her to bring me to Christ but if she would have started preaching to me we would not have come together. So God did use her to show me what I look like to Jesus, after I started to Desire the Lord my God and do it for real.
    hisgirlforlife said;
    Michael, please know, as I believe I can speak on behalf of other bloggers here, this is a place where the name of Jesus Christ is lifted up and honored and praised above ALL. It is my intent, as with many other dear ones here, that this is a place of love, not condemnation or judgement…a place of honesty and a place where others pray for sometimes great needs and adversity.

    I appreciate your opinion but I’m not sure you should be so quick to speak for others here, it is Mart De Hann’s blog and I was commenting or reading this blog since it started. With all do respect, I don’t want anyone speaking for me so please don’t attempt to speak for others here. You said that Bob from Cornwall England was elated about 9/11 and Pearl Harbor and he had to explain that is not what he said… which you did not respond to him so either you went on your marry way or didn’t feel the need to get real and apologize. Then you confuse one blogger with another which you did apologize for but the *wise,Godly* counsel I need is in the Bible and I’m willing to live it out in my life even to death, how about you…? Christ came to save sinners not the righteous. I learned that I am not worthy to be called His son but He loves me anyway…Amen

    hisgirlforlife said;
    God’s description of love found in 1 Cor. 13 is an example we all can lift up and ask God to fulfill and live out in each of us. I’ve entrusted my ex-husband to God and laid him upon His altar, just like Abraham laid Isaac, to allow God to work and do a work within his heart (and mine) that only He himself can accomplish.

    I’m sorry but I do not believe Abraham laid Isaac on the alter has any relation to you getting divorced…
    IMHO
    Michael

  22. Hisgirl4life says:

    Dear Plumbape, thank you for expressing yourself so honestly. Misinterpretation and miscommunication seems to be something that often occurs whenever there are many different views and opinions expressed. It certainly was not my intention to offer anything but compassion to you. If this is not a place where Jesus is lifted up, a place free of judgment and condemnation, one where we are free to express thoughts a place where all can come to discuss and request prayers, then I guess I misunderstood the blog rules. Yes, as I mentioned the Bible is our first source of counsel and we all fall short as sinners. (Bob, if I misunderstood your comments, I am truly sorry.) When I referred to Abraham and Isaac the meaning was surrendering everything to God, just as Abraham was willing to lay His child down. It is a personal prayer I offered when my son was close to death. I still love my ex-husband very much; God’s plan for marriage is love and respect, not abuse. Again, I am sorry, truly sorry for what appears to be the unpardonable error.

  23. plumbape says:

    hisgirl4life said to Bob on Oct.22.
    I am sorry that you have not experienced true Christian fellowship with others in your life…as that is a life fully surrendered to Him.
    This sounds very judgmental to me and he responded to you an hour later….

    First you said about Abraham and Isaac was laying your husband on the alter now you mention your son laying close to death, I’m still not sure you are being 100% real. After Abraham waited for a son and had one of his own efforts, then God blessed him with the son. He then asked that he should now take the son and murder him, which he does because he has so much faith in God that even if God allowed that- God would bring him back to life. This is a perfect picture of God the Father who would willing give his only Son so that even his enemies *forgive them Father for they know not what they do* could be forgiven.

    I don’t know you hisgirl4life, but I forgive every one and I know very well what it is to put one’s love and trust in someone and then be abused. I lived with it day in and day out mentally and physically. Jesus could have called a thousand angels to his rescue but he suffered willingly so that the people that mocked, spit and cursed Him could be saved. We aren’t just sinners we are God enemies until we are willing to forsake everyone and every thing for Christ. Then the result will be loving our neighbors even if they steal from you or what ever abuse the enemy tries it will be gladly forgiven.
    Love you all and thank you for allowing me to run off at the mouth about our Lord and Savior…. Amen….
    Michael

  24. Hisgirl4life says:

    Good very early morning to all! Plumbape, up to use the little girl’s room, but was prompted to look at Mart’s blog. We are all on very differing time schedules. I realize you do not know me, nor do you know my heart or motives. Jesus is the only one who truly does. I too have lived with abuse in my marriage. Abuse is not a subject easily understood within the church and often the advice given is misguided and sometimes harmful. I have found so much help and encouragement from many of the resources here at the rbc ministries site, and perhaps that is a better fit for me. Yes, we can each choose to love and forgive, but ultimately we can only change ourselves with the grace gives so freely. Need to get some much need sleep…”God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.”

    Thank you Jesus for holding my heart within your tender hands. I love you so much…

  25. bubbles says:

    It is important to remember that real names should not be used without permission given by the person.

    I have NEVER used my real name on this blog or given anyone permission to do so; have always gone by the the login name.

    I was not comfortable for my real name to be put out here.

  26. Regina says:

    This blog topic brought to mind Heb. 12:1-2, NLT:
    1) Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge crowd of witnesses to the life of faith, let us strip off every weight that slows us down, especially the sin that so easily trips us up. And let us run with endurance the race God has set before us. 2) We do this by keeping our eyes on Jesus, the champion who initiates and perfects our faith. Because of the joy awaiting him, he endured the cross, disregarding its shame. Now he is seated in the place of honor beside God’s throne.

    Blessings,

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