Text Size: Zoom In

Whose Reality Grips Us?

Photo by: NASA Goddard Photo and Video

Has something changed in the way we read the Bible that is affecting our view of reality? Is it possible that we are no longer engrossed in its own story, but instead are flipping through its pages looking for interesting thoughts or anecdotes?

Several recent experiences have me wondering.

On one hand I recently heard a representative of Biblica (previously The International Bible Society) quote research indicating that too many of us do read the Bible in fragments, out of context.

A couple of weeks later I ran across a comment by a University of Texas Ph.D candidate who explained her own research project like this:  “I noticed after reading a really engrossing book that you feel like a different person momentarily,” she says. “And (afterward), when I would write an e-mail or have a conversation, I kind of felt possessed by the author. I thought that was worth studying — that maybe thinking styles could be contagious, could be transmitted through language.”

Even though that persons’ comment had nothing to do with the Bible, it reinforced a question in my mind about whether, at some point in our spiritual journey, we begin looking for ideas, rather than being absorbed in the real story of the Bible. I wondered what would happen if I started reading newspaper articles, Reader’s Digest stories, or books the way many of us read the Bible? (i.e. more like a daily horoscope than a story).

But then I read a somewhat weightier article that was about the Bible, and that directly addressed the issue of whether we are letting the Bible’s own story define our reality, or whether we are using our own experience to determine the way we view the Scriptures.

The article, by William Placher, was about a little known theologian by the name of Hans Frei who, according to the author, might be considered by future historians as one of the most important theologians of his generation.

According to Placher, Frei concluded that something has changed in the last couple of centuries in the way many people read the Bible. He became convinced that, for many centuries before the modern age, people tended to read the Bible as a realistic story of the world, from creation to last judgment. In the process readers tended to make sense of their own lives by seeing their own stories within the context of that larger story.

But, then, or so it seemed to Frei, “somewhere around the 18th century, people started reading the Bible differently. Their own daily experience seemed to define for them what was “real,” and so they consciously tried to understand the meaning of the Bible by locating it (the Bible) in their world.” At this point, Frei observed that many began reading the Bible either with questions about whether its historical facts were true, or otherwise as a book of moral lessons that give us direction and answers to our questions.

So over the last few weeks, I’ve been wondering whether, what Frei says has happened on a large scale, could  be happening to us personally, In short, are we reading the Bible in fragments, out of context, to the point of forgetting the real story its telling us? Could that result in not being engrossed in its own story to the point that it’s Author hasn’t taken over out minds? And could the result then be that even after reading it, we are left struggling with our own reality, rather than with a renewed ability “to walk by faith, rather than by sight”?

The question isn’t whether what we are experiencing is real, but rather what our story means in light of the wisdom of God’s perspective: a reality defined by the Great Genesis to Revelation Story of the Bible.


Vote on whether you think this post is something you'll be thinking about:
Vote This Post DownVote This Post Up (+114 rating, 121 votes)
Loading...
66 Comments »

66 Responses to “Whose Reality Grips Us?”

  1. drury441 says:

    context is king. if we don’t know the context, how will we understand the who, what, when, where, and why of God’s word? context is key to Bible study and to my life.

    according to Frei, the 18th century caused a change. what was the change? the great enlightenment. i don’t know but it sure sounds like gnosticism to me. man sure does love to be the center of everything.

    i believe knowledge is power, but it is so very important for me to know that any knowledge i receive, i receive as a gift from God through His Holy Spirit. i pray that i will continue to focus on the True God of the Bible and live my life according to His ways.

  2. poohpity says:

    I am not a theologian or a scholar. When I received my current bible in 1989 and started to read, I was like a sponge wanting to read and read and read. I went to bible studies and just could not get my fill of wanting to know all I could know. Then I found out there is soooo very much to know even after reading it time and time again. I saw myself in so many of the people in it’s pages and often wondered how can they not believe and I will never be like that only years or months or days later I found myself just like that. I wanted to talk to people about what I was reading and found very very few who actually have read the bible cover to cover maybe once but not enough to know it. They had been to bible studies and studied parts of it but not the whole.

    When my son went to bible school I was amazed that they also studied parts but did not read it as a daily time to spend with the Lord. Just that one on one time with Him and His word. That got my curiosity up and began to ask people in church have you ever read the bible and much to my amazement very, very few had. I began to think how do you then know if what you are being taught is the truth or not.

    When the United States came into being one of the things they wanted so much was the bible it was an important household possession. They read from it at night before bed with the whole family it was ingrained in them to work hard and the Word flowed through their veins. I do not know what happened and why it sets collecting dust rather than worn out pages.

    I wonder if people read “War and Peace” from the middle then to the end and then the beginning then just a verse. I get so confused. I feel lost when I do not read. Please understand I am not boasting at all it is part of my life, the best part. I see human beings who have not changed to much over thousands of years, I see creation and I see how God dealt with His people and how much God chased after us to have a relationship with Him. He never quit and He never will. I have to know that, that someone in my life will never give up on me when I am so ugly sometimes and so undeserving. I read because the desire is in me to do it and I do not know what I would do without it grounding me.

  3. SFDBWV says:

    Good grief, Mart, this is a very deep intellectual view of the Bible and the psycology of how man views it or relates to it…to the conclusion of how relevant it is to modern man.

    Because all people have varying views, it can have multiple answers none of which are correct of their own validity.

    Where to begin…Knowing that most “people” had never had a chance to read the Bible for themselves, until somewhere in the 1500’s. Leads me to wonder where or what does Frei base his theroy on?

    No one can argue that people have changed continually throughout history, and especially since the coming of the mechanized and now electrical ages.

    I would think that we as “modern” people view everything different as from previous generations.

    The more *knowledge* we fill up on, the less relevant scripture has on the modern humanist thinking.

    Believing that the Bible is an accurate historical document, leads non believers to take the Bible to task on what is seen today as historical accuracy. Trying to find cracks in the truth of scripture, some make a career of doing nothing else.

    How we view the Bible, is very important to just what we believe and what we base our faith upon.

    Whereas it is the story between Man and God from creation into eternity. It is more than just one persons life story. It is God’s story.

    I have lived only 63 years, if I set down and relate a story of my life to you, do I have to start at my birth and bring the whole of my life into the conversation…No I just tell you a piece of my life…out of context.

    The Bible, or a persons life story is all entertwined together, with each detail important in their own right, a micro story in a larger story. Yet just as relevant.

    I am sorry this will have to be parcelled out in shot segments as time is my enemy…

    Steve

  4. Regina says:

    Good Morning All,

    Off topic here…
    Peg, That *is* a strange coinkydink indeed! :-) Like you, I look for conformation from God everywhere!

    faithkemei, You and I are on the same page! I stand in AWE of our AMAZING God too! :-) Enjoy your sunny weather in Kenya!

    Looking forward to reading and commenting on this blog topic! 18 degrees now in my city (maybe colder in others).

  5. Regina says:

    Forgot to mention that it’s snowing now, and wind chills are below 0! ..amazing!

  6. Charis says:

    I was raised Catholic, and then I became a fundamentalist protestant, and I am female.

    For me, it wasn’t the issue in your post, but it was the issue of relying on “authorities” to teach and interpret the Bible for me (and presuming that I am “easily deceived” and have NO authority as a lay, female) rather than realizing that the Holy Spirit will teach me personally (1 John 2:27; John 16:13; Eph 4:20-21).

    For me this was revolutionary- it felt like I broke through a glass ceiling into another dimension, a spiritual dimension where God spoke to ME personally through his living Word (the Bible AND Christ within me).

  7. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Yes you are right Steve, there are many ways we can look at this topic and all would seem correct in their own way.

    The Bible is like a biography of God and Man living together, almost a marraige, with all the arguments, fall outs and wonderful making up.
    It can be read from begining to end and make perfect sense. It can also be read in bight size chunks just to emphasize a point or bring out an event that may be rellavent to the “now” moment.
    I agree with Mart that some may treat it like a horrorscope, but that is wrong. It is a book of the heart, for healing and a book of the mind for renewal.
    Above all it is a book that contains words, that may seem a strange observation but, those words were spoken by God about people God related to and loved.
    The wonder is that same Word became a man and dwelt among us.

    I use my laptop to read the word, the bible, and often just see small portions at a time. I also read it cover to cover in book form.
    Since the invention of the printing press we have lived in the information age where all knowledge is available to all people. As can be seen in Tunisia and Egypt, information & knowledge is power.
    Gods information to us is power, sharper than any two edged sword. Let’s be wise and use it with Love.

    Bob

  8. Mart De Haan says:

    Seems to me that the real issue is not that we have to read the Bible from cover to cover, for as you indicate Steve, that wasn’t even an option for many prior to the printing press. We’ve talked about that together in earlier posts.

    Instead what I see in view here is that, in the lives of Israel, and then later in the lives of the early church, the big story was being told– and the smaller stories, perhaps rehearsed around “backyard fires” after a long days work, were seen in light of the God of Creation, the Exodus, the Conquest, the kings, and then the King who died for us with a promise to return.

    By contrast, Frei saw post-enlightenment theologians becoming tangled up in whether or not the specific events of the Bible were historically true… or began looking moralistically, for how to find guidance from this ancient book? In either case, he saw the Big Story of God being pushed to the back.

    What I take from this is that as we read “here and there” in Scripture we need to do reality-checks to see if what we are “seeing” is in light of the big picture of the Bible– or just our own sense of need.

  9. aboverubies says:

    Dear Mart,
    It is a deep heart issue and should remind all of us how we should even share the gospel to others. Believing in Jesus as Savior is not enough, He must be Lord and King of our lives changing us to the very core of who we think we are. That is the reality: Christ is meant to change us in ways unimaginable. Seldom is the gospel preached as that we need to become new creatures with transformed minds and all old must be gone(come on we are not all bad, right?). Seldom are we taught that we are nothing but through Christ alone, we have power and that is to His glory not ours. IF we attend church, read Bibles and listen to Christian music, just to do a good deed and help us survive another day, we have missed the mark. The Word is meant to come upon us, come into us and flow through us in such a dynamic way as to completely change us with the amazing power to have us imitate Christ. We need to look at the Word as living, not just a nice bedtime story. As a Sunday School teacher i am trying to help my kids see the context of the passage, show them history of that time period, and explain how it applies to our lives today. i hope to impart that the Word of God is powerful in the lives of those who trust Him completely and seek Him with all their hearts and minds. Thank you for the reality check!!!

  10. poohpity says:

    It would seem that God gets pushed back rather than the forefront in the majority of things now. Creation is more important than the Creator. The rights of the people and individual rights seem to out weigh getting to know God on His terms not ours. Trying to adjust God to fit our needs rather than God adjusting our character to fit into the greater plan of things to know and do His will not our own.

  11. bettyf says:

    I had difficulty when trying to read either recommended daily scripture suggested the Church or just choosing a randam passage, lesson or prayer. I had the opportunity to be offered the bible in a chronological order that was truly an exciting book to read. I have since read it several times and I offer the following from Guideposts’ literaturn on this wonderful book

    This New International Version translation of the Scriptures reads like a magnificent epic novel! Both Old and New Testaments are laid out in chronological order so you can follow each story and event just as it happened. Even if you’ve read the Bible cover to cover before, you’ll gain fresh insight on how these events tie together. ”

    I discovered a new delight in scripture and in the greatest story ever told. I would (and have) recommended this edition of the holy word of God to anyone who seeks understanding on a new leve.

  12. florida7sun says:

    Thank you Mart for your excellent post.

    It seems we are always looking for fresh perspectives from authors and getting lost in the process. The other day I was in a Christian bookstore looking at the myriad of titles offered to provide further insight into the Word of God. I grew weary going from aisle to aisle.

    There are times when we cannot see the forest for the trees that are blocking our view.

    The Holy Spirit then spoke to my heart, and I recalled the wisdom proclaimed in Ecclesiastes:

    “The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails—given by one shepherd. Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them.

    “Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.

    “Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.” – Ecclesiastes 12:11-14

    There is one shepherd. We need to be in communion with Him. His Spirit will reveal to us the way we should go; the truth we should heed; and the abundant life we should live.

  13. vinman92 says:

    Having been raised in a bible based church, I have since seen a variety of approaches toward the scripture. I am currently a member of a bible based church, however we spend more than 3/4 of the service on contemporary hymns played by the church band. Bible study on Wednesdays is more serious, and follows in a linear fashion, by book, chapter, and verse. I really dislike the focus on music on Sunday in my church, but don’t want to leave it, as that alludes to Mart’s characterization of trying to mold our own version of Christianity as well. The bible is not supposed to make life easy. It puts life in context, and when you bounce around from verse to verse it becomes a “choose your own adventure” novel. I have fallen prey to this as well and am guilty and convicted of this type of worship. Thank you Mart for pointing out the focus should always be on God and Jesus, not ourselves. We are sinners and only He is the savior.

  14. SFDBWV says:

    florida7sun, Thank you for your comment, I consider it to be right on..

    Steve

  15. john4ns says:

    There are many stories that start “once upon a time…” and end with “They lived happily ever after.” but there is only one Story that begins, “In the beginning, God created…” and ends, “The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all, Amen.”

    No matter how we read the Bible, we must always be aware that we are reading a segment that fits that magnificent Whole. And as we do, the Holy Spirit opens it to us.

  16. SFDBWV says:

    Matthew 4:4 “It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone,but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”

    Deuteronomy 8:3 “And He humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that He might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only,but by every word that proceedeth out of the LORD doth man live.”

    Jesus quoted the book of Deuteronomy more than any other OT book.

    He quoted without giving reference to what He was quoting, He may have expected those listening to Him to already know the quote.

    When Jesus began His ministry he read Isa 61:1 and then went on to state that “This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.” (Luke 4:21).

    Jesus used scripture to make His point. We often use pieced out scripture to do the same as well, as often the Holy Spirit speaks to us through one verse or quote of scripture.

    I can not see anything wrong or incorrect with this.

    People who have lost a loved one seek comfort, where else would they find comfort more benificial than there in the writen word of God?…So they are either led or seek out scripture that helps them to heal and be comforted.

    People who have a special need, whether it is finacial or healing, or guidence, or any tragic or hopeless situation, should feel they can seek scripture to help them….

    To help them find answers, direction, strength comfort..

    Why would that be considered inappropriate reading of the Bible????

    No, no one sits down and opens to Genesis 1:1 every time they pick up the Bible.

    To pick and choose, from the WORD, one must already know the WHOLE STORY, then delve deeper into the treasures hidden in each and every WORD, God breathed into existence.

    I do understand, Mart, that there are some people who have never read a single word of scripture other than the little verses given to them in booklets and pamphlets.

    It is to these kinds of people who, throughout the history of Christianity, whom the problem exists. They are lazy and want someone else to explain, read and present to them the story of the Bible…never really getting it because they put no effort into it.

    Never really having that close and personal relationship with Christ, because like the Children in the wilderness who refused to listen to the voice of God and ask that God speak only through Moses, they have taken themselves out of the relationship, and are observers only.

    Steve

  17. SFDBWV says:

    Mark L, Hello to you, may I say I have heard some of the questions and concepts you put forth in you comment before.

    What do you consider your self to be? Speaking of a religious following.

    Do you accept Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of God? Do you believe Him to be the product of the Virgin Mary and the Holy Spirit? Do you believe He was crucified and died on the cross of Calvary? Do you believe He was raised from the dead by His own power?

    Or do you have a different belief system? Based on what?

    Steve

  18. Mart De Haan says:

    john4ns, you have clearly netted out the point of the post.

  19. Mart De Haan says:

    SFDBWV, I think we are missing one another. My point is not to get distracted by the making of many books, but rather to listen if someone, author or not, reminds us of what john4ns said.

    While you are right that the Bible cannot be read from Genesis to Revelation at a sitting, or all the time, that big story must be understood in order to be able to read any part in context.

    Once you have heard the story and know how it begins, resolves, and ends, you can then weigh and reflect on the individual “chapters and verses.”

    I know you’d agree that the words and sentences do not mean whatever we want them to mean.

  20. Mart De Haan says:

    bettyf, I have recently been given a New Testament laid out in the chronological manner you describe. Am looking forward to reading the story of the New Testament that way.

  21. drdedward says:

    How you read the Bible can make a lot of difference in your understanding of what you read. The Bishop in my area of Georgia recommends a verse a day. I figure at that rate most people would not live long enough to read the Bible. However, for some that is all they want.

    Reading the Bible chronologically has made a big difference in my undertanding and enjoyment of reading the Bible. I have read the Bible through many times and taught it for years. Now I teach with a better understanding.

    The Bible isn’t a puzzle it is a story. It clearly shows God as all three persons from beginning to end. Each book stands alone and has it’s own purpose but when read in historical context it makes more sense. You can even see the reality of Salvation unfold.

    God knows each of us as a person. Read and understand the Word of God and you will have a personal relationship with God the Father through Jesus the Son.

    David

  22. poohpity says:

    bettyf, this year is my third time reading through chronologically. It certainly does put things into perspective doesn’t it?

  23. foreverblessed says:

    A chronological bible? DO you mean the books are in a different order?
    What helped me was reading a teenage bible.
    I thought we had discussed this already a few topics ago.
    To me the concept that the bible is a road to Jesus, is the best main theme for me.
    The bible tells the story of so many hopeles and lost people, how all of them erred, but the same bible tells that God rescues us through the blood of Jesus Christ!

    MarkL, someone else had said that about Cain here before, and that marvels me so much as Genesis 4:1-2 is soooo very clear who the father of Cain is. How can you be more clear about it then tis bible verse?
    Adam lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, “With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man.”
    So Adam lay with his wife, and then she is pregnant, quite an extraordinary situation for any woman, but Eve had no mother who had given birth to a baby. SHe had noone to help her, like women help each other. That is a very serious business, but Eve says: God helped her delivering her baby. I think He may even have done that personally, (like that God also visited Abraham in human form Genesis 18)
    But that is going to sidelines isn’t it?
    The fact is that Jesus is the Son of God, and is our Saviour.

  24. poohpity says:

    Yes, foreverblessed. In the bible they are in groupings; The Law (Torah), Historical Books, Wisdom Writings, and The prophets. For the chronological they are in the time frames they were written in for example Job comes between Genesis 11 and 12 during the time of the Patriarchs. Then when the kings were office you can read which prophets were serving during that time some served in the northern kingdom while the others served in the southern kingdom. Glad thing went well with your sister.

  25. davids says:

    Mart,

    I have re-read your post and follow-up. I think that it seems that you are preaching to the choir. Most of us feel that we have a good understanding how the different parts of the Bible fit into the overall story of God’s plan. And I expect that applies to most people that bother to delve into the Word on a regular basis.

    “At this point, Frei observed that many began reading the Bible either with questions about whether its historical facts were true, or otherwise as a book of moral lessons that give us direction and answers to our questions.” So who are these people? Are they people that regard themselves as Christians?

    Perhaps many people that show up at our services are in this category, and maybe churches could better put the readings into context. But I am hesitant about churches that insist that people take every word of the Bible as literal truth – even passages that are clearly in the form of poetry. They seem to place a stumbling block in the path of those that first of all need to accept Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

  26. davids says:

    Mark L,

    I am sorry, but I do not see any scriptural support for the ideas you promote. We have the original Hebrew and Greek texts, and there are modern translations available, so there is no reason to believe that our scripture is corrupted.

    And of course, if you believe that the ancient Hebrew and Greek manuscripts were corrupted, then there is no way to know the truth.

  27. Elaa says:

    Hello all,

    Hopefully, my dad will never read this and if he does, he won’t know this is me – but here goes.

    I do think Frei observation is correct. I know in my church (where my dad is the Pastor – ha!) when we do Bible Study, there is a lot of bringing it to people’s experience. And I just so struggle with this. It’s not even that, ‘this is what I perceive the Holy Spirit telling me’, – it’s just plain old experiences. I keep wondering – if I want to hear personal stories, I can seek you all out one after the other. Can we just focus on the Bible? But I’m told this helps people to relate well to the Bible. But what happens when they can’t relate to something in the Bible – do we then take it out? Do we rewrite that bit?

    I must confess, I even find over dependence on Bible commentaries challening also. I know the Bible is not your typical run-off-the-mill book, and it sure does make a difference getting help to understand it. But then the Bible commentator and not the Bible becomes the final authority on the Bible!

    We do approach women speaking in church, wearing slacks and worshiping with their heads uncovered in the context of our reality I guess, so there is that to consider. But I daresay, I perceive some expectations that the Bible should conform to where we are, and not we conform to where God inspired the authors to write it from.

  28. Regina says:

    Good Evening All,

    Got a little distracted today and ran out of time to comment on this blog topic. Enjoyed reading the few comments that I had time to read though. aboverubies shared a little bit of what I was thinking so far.

    Blessings to all

  29. poohpity says:

    Who’s reality grips us? I can not understand who we are to God because I am not God. I truly can not even grasp the whole reality of who God is. If our world around us is small then we will have a small sense of the world and eternity. We can search and listen and give all we are to understand but we will still fall short. If I only experience my reality and never really give an effort to understand anyone else then I will live in a very small reality and that will be the only one that grips me. That reality will be biased and closed to learning anything new.

  30. aboverubies says:

    Also wanted to say to Mark L. that God sets forth what our reality should be whether we understand or not. Trusting the Lord and not leaning on our understanding is key. If God says not to forsake the fellowship of others whether they agree with us on the nonessentials, then we need to go to church. There are still many great Bible believing, knowledgable, and not fearful to answer tough questions, pastors out there. Faith comes by hearing, iron sharpens iron in churches. be a berean. i trust God that His reality He reveals to us is what i am putting my life into. Sometimes when the bible seems dull or boring is because i am not praising Him enough, i have a sin issue in my life however small, or i have not been spending enough time with Him or other believers, when my priorities get straight and set my eyes back on Him fully then the Bible is alive again because my heart is fully devoted again. God forgive me for sometimes taking the pearls and trampling under my pig feet!Sometimes i have experienced dry times like Job but remained faithful and then at the last possible minute of the desert experience He reminds me who He is and WOW God is awesome and His word is awesome. Great job everyone sharing different ways to soak in God’s Word through various studies and Bibles that help you understand context and history. i cant wait to stand before Jesus and see the true reality:Jesus! There will be nothing more to say on anything we think is so important now but Jesus’ name and praises to Him when we see Him face to face. i encourage Mark L. to get plugged into a good church and understand we can agree to disagree on nonessentials. As long as the church has the right Godhead (trinity), the right way of salvation by grace alone not works and believes the Word of God is living and inspired by Holy Spirit, i dare say you can differ on everything else. That is reality that our world is fallen and we are still God’s workmanship ever changing and becoming more in His image, only by God’s hands! Keepin it real, your sis. thanks again for this blog and for everyone being so encouraging!

  31. bereanreader says:

    It’s important to read the Bible thoroughly: chapter by chapter and understand and apply the scripture in the proper context of what is read.
    Pulling out individual verses (out of context) to support a viewpoint and/or doctrine is not wise.

  32. elainem says:

    My concern is for a brother who was a member of a Christian church, and left it for the one that worships idols, prays to Mary, distorts Scripture, and reveres its man-elected leader as God. This individual considered himself saved, but what now? He has obviously forsaken the True God for a man-elected leader. He obviously prays before [and to] statuary and no doubt dead man-declared ‘saints’. He has even aligned himself with one of its inner cults.

    HOW can a person possibly be ‘saved’ by turning away from God to a man-led religious institution?

    The Bible clearly tells us that idol-worship and necromancy are forbidden. I would appreciate any and all comments, please. Even though this brother no longer considers me his sister, I am still greatly concerned for his salvation.
    Thank you.

  33. foreverblessed says:

    Elainem, I think the post just above you, aboverubies: as long as we are busy with the essentials, then in things where we differ are not essential.
    I think you and I could not attend that church you are talking about, but to others they perceive these things differently. In my housegroup are 2 older ladies who are serious followers of that church, and when we talk about these things, who think the same as you do, I sense that they are upright, and seriously wanting to follow God. They say, they do not worship an idol. the statue makes them think about God.
    So it is my perception that is different.
    It is between them and GOd, and if they are serious seekers of the truth then do not worry, God will end what He started, and bring full light in their life.

    I have to add that at one time I considered the Sabbath day Holy. Holy time. It took some crisis to get me to the core: Jesus Christ, who reconciles us to God, the essential.
    And I do think that we will know in full the whole truth when we will see Him.

  34. faithkemei says:

    Very true foreverblessed its the essential that matters. About that church elainem, ive met very staunch belieivers of that including my best friends and all we can do that is to pray that the Lord shall open their eyes so that they might see the Light.
    john4ns uve said everything. picking verses from the scriptures is not bad as long as we understand the context and not to just try to justify our deeds. we should always have a clear image of the big picture which is Gods plan to redeem mankind through his son Jesus Christ.
    This blog has actually kept me thinking of whether I try fixing the scripture into my small situation or whether i read it so that it can fix me up.
    God bless you all.

  35. SFDBWV says:

    Mark L, It would seem we certainly agree on the fundamentals of being Christian.

    To believe that Jesus of Nazareth is who He said He is, comes from both reading the Bible, believing what it says and also the Holy Spirit’s indwelling in us that allows for us to believe and to proclaim tha “Jesus is Lord”.

    Mart is right, he and I are missing something in my understanding of what is the thrust behind this topic.

    I will give a little example of what I believe may be the dark side of choosing scripture to validate a belief, while ignoring other scripture as well as the story line that argues against that same belief.

    I had a friend who would argue with me that there is not life after death….Not until the resurection.

    He based his belief on one verse of scripture, Ecc 9:5. Yet when I read him dozens of scripture that clearly state that there is life after death…He sturbornely refused to change his mind…Though he considered himself to be Christian, he certainly did not live a Christian life.

    It was many years later that he finally experianced the rebirth of spirit, and though old and in ill health, he went about telling all, with great excitement, all about Jesus and the Gospel. Something most Christians can relate to…That first love of finding Christ for real.

    That first wonder and amazement of finally being able to understand the Bible from Genesis through Revelation, how suddenly it all made sense and was clear…How exciting it was then…and how exciting it needs to be now. EnLIGHTenment of the Word of God and a life long journey of discovery…By reading the Word, being led and taught by the Holy Spirit.

    Mark L, I hope you stick around the blog.

    Steve

  36. Mart De Haan says:

    davids, I think I know what you are saying about “preaching to the choir”. I only wish it were true for myself, and all of us– that we really were continually singing the songs of those overwhelmed by the way The Story begins, unfolds, and ends.

  37. poohpity says:

    If we really understood the reality of the bible and its authors we would not try and be known for anything but living the reality of the scripture to please God. We would be able to take ourselves out of the way (die to self) and allow the spirit to work through us. Then our reality would be God’s reality not our own. Our ego and pride would not war against the spirit but embrace it. If we were truly living a Spirit filled life understanding the bible and all it contains would lead to a changed heart that wants God to have all the Glory for everything and His will be done.

    Do you really understand what God’s will is for your life? Is it about the church you go to? Is it about how much head knowledge of scripture you have? Our is it about what part of you God has and how you treat others? Is it about trusting God with everything and just doing the job God has given us to do? Do you know what the job is we were given to do?

  38. xrgarza says:

    Mart,

    Thank you for sharing your heart on this, I have often had thoughts of this as well.

    I remember as a child, memorizing individual verses or chapters. Never understanding the concept since the Bible was not in chronological order how did so many know what it really was saying? Was I really so dumb that I would never grasp it and would I be doomed to hell because I could not understand fully what the King James Version was saying?

    I tried reading the entire Bible starting at Genesis I’d get to Leviticus and be bored straight, and ask how did anyone go through this.

    In my 30’s I had read so many bit’s and pieces of the Bible that I was able to see that it was several things, 1) The family tree of Jesus. 2) The story of the beginning and the end & 3) Valuable principles that I could apply to my life today, literately.

    In recent years as an Over the road truck driver my curiosity got the best of me, and I purchased the entire Bible on CD NIV version, and in 2009 I went through the entire bible in like seven months, the entire time I kept saying to myself, Wow! I didn’t know that, Wow! I didn’t know that!

    I learned so much more about what the Bible says, important things that have never been taught in church, and also that there are so many more principles to use than those few that I was using.

    God Bless
    Rocky

  39. xrgarza says:

    PS: I have been challenged to live by faith even more so, I don’t want to simply be going through the motions, or quoting scripture so that I could sound good and impress others, I really want to make a difference in this world.

    Rocky

  40. aboverubies says:

    some great comments!! this is to poohpity. understanding God’s will is easy (really?). if you love Him, obey Him. Seek Him first, all else will be added. The reality is teh Bible gives us faith, wisdom, understanding, clarity and a code of morals and ethics. Going to church and getting head knowledge for the mind is very important cause in church we get what we cant get somewhere else. no institution on the face of the earth gives us what church can give us. Even when you belong to one that is wrong on essentials, God can still use it to bring maturity in that believers life and yes eventually the Light shines through and reality of the scriptures sinks in. a person who loves God with everything will be transformed and they will seek a church that is what God would want for them. i think the Bible is MOST REAL when i treat it as such and take time to actually study it rather than reading it. when i see how a passage plays out or gives a message to that generation and understand the culture and history during that passage, wow understanding of how gracious and loving God is comes to life and the bible just blows me away. Paul speaks of the fact that we need to hear the whole counsel of God and also move on in maturity, not staying babes only drinking milk. Faith comes by way of studying scripture. we need to know how to answer every man and that takes a little head knowledge to do so and study of inspired scriptures. The Bible is a collection of very beautiful love letters to us today. God did not make it boring text book but a relevant letter to us and with the help of gifted teachers who love their sheep and give their lives for the sheep (yes we can understand on our own through Holy Spirit but God did set up these giftings for a reason) we will see how awesome the Word is and will never be able to get enough. after being a christian for 25 years it still amazes me how it comforts me, changes me and challenges me still! God is not done with any of us and you all are in my prayers today. again wonderful postings by all, hearts are poured out in need of His Word being our reality!

  41. aboverubies says:

    sorry i always try to just leave a short post and woolaa its long! lol. very sorry. Mart L i can see by your posts you are passionate about the Lord Jesus. a little off subject from this blog post, i wonder about your comment “Through Adams pure blood Our Messiah would come. Not through tainted blood. Is it not by the blood of Christ we are saved?” i wonder what you mean by that. i wish not to respond to that statement without you explaining. The blood of Jesus is essential in proper context. There has been no “pure” blood since the time of Noah scientifically speaking. Jesus being fully man and fully God had the blood of some pretty shady characters: all sinners. Sorry just curious. again i have no doubt that you love Jesus and it seems that you have the right one (hey we know believing in a lizard named Jesus is not the ticket to get to heaven! haha)There are teachers of the Word who take scripture and put more into it than even God intented. God’s Word is so simple that anyone can understand it and yet deep enough to confound the scholars! generally what you read is what you get, in other words, the Word is not some big mystery just waiting for man to get it right but a letter written for all to understand God, the mystery is how could such a awesome great fantastic God love us so much after we betrayed Him and die for us to save us by just believing, NOW THATS A MYSTERY and one worth believing and making a reality into our lives and allowing this amazing God to change us every day til we meet His beautiful face!!! hey i tied it all into blog context! yeah

  42. swallman says:

    I don’t think God intended His Word to be ‘interpreted’ only by scholars and theologians. It is for the lowliest and most simple minded of us all. Jesus embodies ‘the Word’ in living form. The best thing I ever did regarding Bible Study was volunteer to be a leader for The Bethel Bible Study series in our church. It was a two year committment that took us thru the Bible from beginning to end. We read everything. It was a life changing experience to say the least. The Bible is God’s gift to us, it’s how we get to know Him and have an intimate relationship with Him. Jesus wasn’t a doctor or lawyer or professor, He didn’t come for those people…He came for the sick, lowly, and burdened. If you bring pride and self-sufficiency to the Bible then that’s what you’ll get out of it. It’s not a complicated book of formulas that only certain, ‘knowledgeable’ people can get. It’s God’s message of great great love for a people that He chose solely for His own enjoyment. People have children because they want them..to love and to give good things to and to pass on something of themselves. How should we respond to that kind of gift? By serving, by obeying, by reverence…and we find out how to do things that are pleasing to God by reading the Bible. I see too many people that want the Bible to conform to their lifestyle and not conforming their lifestyle to the Bible’s. Jesus is our example, follow His lead, and keep it simple. Remember that in the Old Testament the law that was supposed to make us right with God became a burden, a yoke. Jesus removed the yoke, He’s the new ‘law’, a better ‘law’, believe it and live it. Accept it.

  43. SFDBWV says:

    I see that there is a new topic up, one of which I doubt I have any ability to add input to.

    I just wanted to say to all the new folks and some of the older ones, that I really appreciated your views and stand for the writen Word of God.

    There is no other book in all the world, that God is the aurthor of. Nor where the personality of God is exposed and his expectations of what He requires from we His children are given.

    Jesus Himself said that the volume of the Book is writen of Him. If you wish to learn about Jesus, then read about Him there exposed from Genesis to Revelation.

    The Gospel, being the good news that through belief and acceptence of Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of God and that through Him we can be reconciled to a relationship with God the Father, saved from a life of sin and eternal seperation from Him….Good news indeed.

    Steve

  44. elainem says:

    I’d like to sincerely thank those of you who replied to my post.
    Since my brother’s defection from the Christian Church, he has become embittered, more greedy, moody, etc……. thus it appears even more so what a drastic error he has made.
    His wife rules the roost, and whenever they are seen together, he is walking behind her, looking at the floor, and miserable.
    Is THAT living the Christ-filled life? No way!
    Knowing we all have our problems, and our moments of frustration and anger, I have found it’s my faith in God that helps tremendously. Praying to God (the REAL Holy Father!) in the name of Jesus makes me feel better, not worse.
    Knowing I am not saved by any works I could possibly do, but by grace, through faith in Him, makes me realize that even in the dark periods of my life, HE still reigns supreme, and that is encouraging to know.
    Thank you all, and may God bless you :)
    Elaine

  45. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Mark L,

    I am a little confused, you said:

    “It just does not make sense that Genesis 3:15 that GOD would put hatred between the offspring of the woman and Adam? And Cain is no where mentioned as a son of Adam.”

    I always thought the emnity was between the woman, her offspring and the Serpent and His offspring. Surely the whole concept (excuse the pun) of the virgin birth was that God brought new blood into the world, the new sinless blood of Jesus Messiah, the only perfect sacrifice. Adams blood was corrupted by sin.

    I can understand the idea of a “pre-creation” as there is overwhelmong physical evidence for that. And maybe it was destroyed by a war in heaven.
    Genesis 1 can be read in the context that God was reforming the earth although it clearly states He created the heavens and earth at the very beigining.
    The idea of a reforming explains alot of the difficulty we have in linking the physical world to the scriptural one.

    Bob

  46. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Mark,

    I am not a Hebrew Schollar, but I know that the serpent did not have sex with Eve, He seduced her into dis beleiving God when he said “Hath God said”. He planted doubt and a lie in her mind.

    There is no doubt in my mind that Cain was Adams son and No Doubt that Jesus is the second Adam, the new seed, the fresh begining, etc.

    All this is unimportant as it does not change the fact that Jesus, Messiah, is the Son of God and died, as a sacrifice for our sin and Rose again to life by the power of the Holy Spirit to be the first born of many brethren.
    The same Holy Spirit lives in us, making us son and heirs with Jesus Christ.

    Bob

  47. poohpity says:

    Obviously Mark L’s reality has gripped him and Bob our reality is different.

  48. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I am afraid I have to bow out of this discussion as:

    A. It is way over my head and I haven’t a clue what Cain has to do with it all etc.

    B. This falls into arears of personal dispute that Mart has asked us to be careful with so as not to upset and offend.

    Mark, I have no intention of proving you wrong, I just don’t understand your argument, so it is best left alone.

    Bob

  49. poohpity says:

    Mark L I was addressing my comment to Bob. The only comment I have for you is God bless you in your search for wisdom it is not my job to prove you wrong or right.

  50. bec4jc says:

    My niece,some of the family,and I were discussing ODB which we all receive monthly. My niece said I like the pamplets and try to keep regular with them. She said that she had to admit that most of the articles she didn’t like that much but she read through them to stay on time with it. Then she told me, but, the one yesterday(this was last year or even the year before that)she could relate to and she likes it when she reads an article that seems to understand her. I don’t recall her telling me that she followed up on the Bible reading though,I think that she just passed on that. I mention this because I was like my niece most of my life doing the same things. I know for a fact that she tries to find out what is right by what other people tell her, sort of like taking a poll. Because whenever the family gets together she asks questions about almost everything asking us do we do that,too, or how do we feel about that. I use to try to learn that way also. But, after I became closer to Jesus as my Saviour and learned about what he did for me and not just me but everyone, I wanted to learn more about Him. It took awhile but I asked our Father to please teach me and He did. I paid little attention to others and if I did I looked it up myself. Yes,I began to learn from scriptures here & there, NT & OT. That’s when I became more interested in the history(a very lot of people today don’t even give history a chance let alone the Bible as history and or spiritually). The only history my family is interested in is our family history(fairly recent, and that’s as far back as it goes). The one person that is a history buff is my brother-in-law and he doesn’t have much to do with the Bible,if anything). I keep bringing up references from the Bible when we’re talking history. Well, the point I’m trying to make here is that some people thrive on parts and not whole because they want to put it together themselves from information that they receive. I think we all have that inclination to want to write our own book, you know what I mean? We want to be able to come up with some little treasure that everyone overlooked before and only then do we feel we’ve contributed in someway. That is until we become humbled under our great Lord & His Son Jesus,that’s when we truely start to learn and it’s beyond human measure for only God measures our faith and makes it grow. Faith & progress that is. God bless & protect all here.

  51. poohpity says:

    What is your definition of the “original text” Mark? As per what you wrote you are bringing in your reality as to what the text says when you said “what I have learned from reading the word in the original text” and “It just seemed to me that what the text says and what the church is teaching are two different things”. What the church is teaching may be the truth could that be possible? It would be nice if you might try reading the passages in a different translation to clarify. What good would it be to call you a nut when you are seeking the truth? You may want to read Ephesians 4:17-32. Continue to seek out the truth friend.

  52. bubbles says:

    Hope deferred makes a heart sick.
    I am sick of not knowing.
    I do not want money or a mansion.
    God’s Word gives us standards and expectations to live by. We are told if we do, we will have peace.
    Well, what I have found over the past month is that when they are followed, there is nothing.
    There is no peace.
    I am scared to go against God.
    But when I do what he says, there is nothing.
    What is wrong with me?
    I am even scared to say or think what has been said.
    But today I am so upset that it is to the point of not caring. It seems as though NOTHING–even the smallest thing NEVER goes right.

  53. foreverblessed says:

    Bec, thanks, you are so right, wanting to say something that is overlooked by everybody!
    Bubbles, hold on dear sister, sometimes things are stretched over us further along then we ever wanted, but hold on to God, this is called perseverance, or he who overcomes…..
    I am praying for you, that you will not lose faith

    Mark L. You asked: show me where I am wrong.
    It is this, the reason why it is not mentioned that Adam begat Cain, is because that lineage is only meant for the lineage that goes on through Noah, and furhter on to Jesus.
    Cain was at a dead end, and so the lineage was not important to mention.
    Genesis 4;1 is another way of saying that Adam is the father of Cain, since it says he lay with Eve. What else must this verse mean? Can you tell me?
    Knowing all about Cain is not essential to our faith in Jesus Christ, please focus on the essential, otherwise you will not find any church to be comfortable with.
    With much love in Jesus name, Rie

  54. poohpity says:

    I think the only expectation that is really good to hang on to is that God is in control when everything around us seems to be falling down. The reality that all that happens to us is working for our good if we love God and are fitting into His plans. If God is on our side, who can be against us and nothing can separate us from His love. Hopefully that can make anyone smile with joy. I will join you in keeping our eyes on Jesus and not looking at the problems around us. ;-)

  55. Rajnesh says:

    I’ve always read bits and pieces of the Bible and since coming across ODB and hanging out here and wanting to shed the old self and start anew and am in the process of reading it cover-to-cover. Having signed up for scripture based alerts find myself being directed to a specific part.

  56. bearpair says:

    Not to post an advertisement, but recently what has been most effective in motivating me to read the Scriptures is the book series by Jenkins & LeHaye (audio) entitled: The Jesus Chronicles, which focuses on the 4 Gospel writers. I Highly recommend it as a marvelous companion to Mart’s blogs and the Day of Discovery programs.

  57. mhbrown57 says:

    I’ve used my academic training (PhD in Accounting) to study the Scriptures in both of the manners expressed above. By that, I mean as a whole and in sections. I’ve read the Bible through a few times in the traditional order, but I’ve also read it through using the NIV in chronological order. To me this is the 10,000 feet view. I enjoy following the story – even though I know where it’s going (kinda like watching reruns of The Andy Griffith Show). I also use ODB and “Men of Integrity” to study various topics in greater detail and depth. These sources and others awaken my spirit to how the Holy Spirit has worked and is working in my life or, unfortunately sometimes, how He would work if I would call on Him. My point is that I find both approaches to the study of scripture useful in their context.

Leave a Comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.