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Rumors on Steroids

Photo by: Darkmere

A few days ago, online communities lit up with pre-publication rumors about a book that is coming out by Rob Bell on the subject of heaven, hell, and the destiny of all. Overnight, a video teaser, and cover copy released by his publisher stirred up enough furor (over what Rob might say) to earn his book a wide reading.

Many have jumped to the conclusion that Rob will, by this book, cross the line into universalism (i.e. that all will ultimately be saved by the sacrifice of Christ whether they believe in Christ or not). Many others are saying, let’s wait and see what there is on the other side of the teaser copy.

I, for one, don’t expect Rob to kick the traces of the faith that has made him a loved servant of Christ to so many.  My hope is that he will be asking questions that push the envelop enough to make all of us think twice about whether we are saying more or less than what the Bible makes certain about heaven and hell.

In recent years, we have all endured the images of human torture and prisoner abuse of Abu Ghraib, carried out by a nation that we hoped would not be responsible for such crimes against God and humanity. We’ve been sensitized, politicized, polarized, and traumatized in the process.

Yet here, with the issue of heaven and hell, more is at stake than the credibility of our government. Having seen the evils of human torture inflicted by terrorists on one side, and government hirelings on the other, many are more than ever inclined to resist the thought of eternal conscious torture.

Because it is too much even to think about, I really don’t want to say more or less than what the Bible necessarily says about hell. It’s obvious from what our Lord says that the judgment of the lake of fire, whatever it is, will always be the ultimate danger.

At the same time I’m trying to resolve unnerving questions about both hell and heaven in the same way. From what I read from the whole story of Genesis to Revelation, I’m sure that the wisdom and character of our God will make heaven as wonderful as it can be, and hell as only as terrible as it needs to be.

We’ve considered before what happened when the people of Israel almost went to war with one another over a rumor that “brothers in the East” had erected a great altar to a pagan god (Joshua 22).

Fortunately, wisdom prevailed and the tribes who settled west of the Jordan sent a delegation to those on the “east bank” to see what was really happening. The result was that, before drawing blood, the whole community of Israel had a chance to clarify their facts and return to their own homes in peace.

In a day when the internet gives us a chance for gossip on steroids, never has there been more need to get our facts straight before humoring our enemies, and killing family, with untimely words and judgments.


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50 Responses to “Rumors on Steroids”

  1. poohpity says:

    My son pointed me to Rob Bell and I was quite impressed by his passion and attention to detail of the bible. Opened my mind to think about a lot of things.

    We have talked in the past about “jumping to conclusions” without all the facts or taking things out of the context which they were written and it has proven time and time again the destruction it causes.

    I love that story in Joshua and proves the point well.

  2. florida7sun says:

    In his message this month entitled “Be Separate” (“Decision Magazine” – March 1, 2011) Billy Graham writes:

    “Worldly Christians are prepared to do as the world does. They will condone dishonest and unethical practices because they are afraid of the world’s displeasure. Only by a life of obedience to the voice of the Spirit, by a daily dying of self, by a full dedication to Christ and constant fellowship with Him, are we enabled to live a godly and influential life in this ungodly world.”

    I am not interested in rumors or in being enticed by a publisher’s marketing campaign.

    Whatever is presented to us in the way of knowledge must be filtered through the Holy Spirit. Even then, I find it can be an exhausting to have an insatiable appetite; trying to satisfy it by devouring everyone’s opinion. We can be gluttons in that respect and get sick if we attempt to ingest all that it published.

    God speaks to me through Ecclesiastes 12:13-14:

    “Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”

    Ray

  3. poohpity says:

    Mart, I have been reading some of the articles about Rob’s book and it is hoot that while they state they have not read the book because it is not out yet they go on to guess what it says. That reminds of people who do not read God’s Word yet go on to form their conclusions and opinions without having knowledge of what it says in the written pages.

    How many times in scripture does it say to stay away from gossip which is likened as you said with the internet today is “Rumors on Steroids”.

  4. florida7sun says:

    I noticed that Rob Bell has yoked himself with HarperCollins. Some of the other spiritual books HarperCollins publishes would be of concern to me: witchcraft, fortune telling, tarot card reading, occultism, and reincarnation to name a few. One blogger commended HarperCollins’ teaser video of Rob Bell’s new book in that it was sure to increase sales. It appears the love of money is the root of all evil, even in the publishing industry.

  5. poohpity says:

    And that’s how rumors get started.

  6. bratimus says:

    I try to choose my internet viewing wisely, try not to get into the hype of things. It sounds like this book is being commericalized for maxium sales, and it has been plug here a free advirtisement. A little dissappointing, fell into the hype.

  7. Charis says:

    Mart, I’m so thankful to read your gentle and Christlike approach toward Bell. It’s healing for those of us who love Christ but are not so sure about Christians.

  8. marma says:

    It seems a national pastime for U.S. Christians to pass judgment on individuals’ theology. I don’t know much about Rob Bell other than what I’ve read so far on the internet. Haven’t read any of his books, so I can say I don’t know anything about his theology, either, first hand.

    I do know two things: there have always been false teachers in the world, those who seek to destroy or seek profit, or are self-deceived. Many of the false teachers we won’t hear about on the internet.

    The second thing I know is that the enemy likes to distract us by getting us to focus on one or two high-profile teachers and tempt us to squabble over whether the person(s) is/are doctrinally sound or not.

    My hope for every believer and for the church is that we would search the scriptures, pray for wisdom and pray for each other. Make that our national Christian pastime.

  9. Ted M. Gossard says:

    Thanks, Mart! I couldn’t agree more.

  10. scout1 says:

    Mart, I just thought what you said, “In a day when the internet gives us a chance for gossip on steroids,” was just so cute! How do you think of this? It’s so true. Our world has become smaller because of the Internet, bigger because of the Internet and more accessible to things that we didn’t think possible, because of the Internet.

    I don’t mean to be off topic, that statement just caught my eye and made me smile!

    Blessings,
    Lynda

  11. jeff says:

    Jesus said in scripture that we should believe in the kingdom of God like little children. By saying that Jesus didn’t mean that we should be naive or not ask difficult questions. Am not familiar with Rob Bell’s teaching apart from a few videos of him on YouTube so Am not in a position to comment about his upcoming book.

    Jesus said that we shall know false teachers by their fruits. I think we spend alot of time defending God’s kingdom rather than building it through loving God with all our hearts,soul and body and to love our neighbors (enemy,friend or strangers). The Gospel will defend itself by it’s fruits.

    We have no idea how heaven or hell will look like, let us not forget the bible uses alot of imagery and parables. The important thing is to know there are consequences for rejecting the grace offered by Jesus Christ, It’s up to God to decide what the punishment will be. Let us who are followers of Christ be consumed by building God’s kingdom on earth and to prepare to rule
    on earth with Christ in justice rather than wondering where heaven or hell are.

    It’s time to focus on what really matters! Thanks Mart and friends.

  12. BruceC says:

    I rarely read “books” by Christian authors anymore. The last one I read was Pilgrim’s Progress. I have a large collection of topic booklets by RBC for reference, do Bible study, and daily devotions; so I have little time for other “books”. I used to read many of them and found that some veered from Biblical teaching; or were an author’s “opinion”. I know some who used to run out to the nearest Christian bookstore everytime one of their favorite writers came out with a new book. I was at a large Christian bookstore with my wife and others several years ago and it really made me wonder just where we have gone in a way.

    BruceC
    Soli Deo Gloria!

  13. SFDBWV says:

    My apologies as I am not sure what the topic is specifically about. If it is about Rob Bell, I know nothing of him at all, and so have little more to say concerning him.

    If it is about rumors, and how the instant ability to gossip is now available world wide via the internet, I can add my two cents.

    If it is about heaven and hell, we can delve into the scripture and see what it is that the Word has to say about it.

    If it is about Abu Ghraib, and the divided political ideologies amongst us, then we can certainly divide ourselves further by discussing that matter.

    I have the utmost respect and gratitude for Mart DeHaan. He is the reason we have a blog and is the president of RBC. He is given to invent a topic every few days for us to pick apart and search out answers for questions we have concerning the topical matter.

    Not an enviable position and one that earns my sympathy as well as my respect.

    Having said all of that let me refer us to Acts 4: 1-33. Here we have the most learned of religious people in all of Israel struck by the unquestionable miraculous change in the “ignorant” persons of Peter and John.

    It is not Peter and John who has become great orators, but The Holy Spirit that speaks through them that is the reason for the new power they seem to have.

    We all are invited to have that same power, we all are able to be led by that same power, and one of the purposes of our having the person of the Holy Spirit within us, is so that we can be led to all truths and discern all un-truths.

    Most of we who are not privy to read all the books by people whom others have dubbed important, are left to rely on the unshakable power of God that we have invited into our being, so as to have eternal fellowship with the author of scripture.

    If Mr. Bell has such influence on the intellectual among us, I can only pray he is correct in his opinions, seeing how so many await his thoughts as a hungry dog awaits a bone.

    More later.

    Steve

  14. poohpity says:

    I believe the topic is about gossip, rumors and speaking out without all the facts and the damage it can cause. Mart used Joshua 22 as an example.

    There has always been a great fear of mine whenever I speak about the things of God that I may be leading someone down a wrong path. It is a great responsibility to be a leader or a teacher because one day they will stand before God and give an account to God alone for the things they have taught. I can not even imagine God asking, “Why did you lead my sheep astray?”

    On the other hand we as followers of Jesus Christ have to be aware of the many people out there that wear sheep’s clothing that are really wolves. We have to be sure whom we follow and if what they teach is really from God. We have to be diligent in discerning the truth and not follow others blindly.

  15. tracey5tgbtg says:

    This is a tough one to comment on. I never heard of Rob Bell, however with some searching I found that he is the guy who does the Nooma DVD’s which I have seen for sale in Christian bookstores.

    I never had any problem with his presentation. It seems that he is reaching out to the young, educated, tech savvy generation and especially to those who don’t go to church and have no intention of going to church or opening up a Bible to see what’s in it. He is not reaching out to those who have been raised in the church and have read their Bibles faithfully for 40 years.

    However, I’ve never read any of his books and I can’t see into his heart. After this blog, and the searching I did on the internet yesterday to try to figure it out, I will say I am curious to read this book, whereas before, I probably wouldn’t have even known it was out there.

    Jeff said many of the things I have been thinking so to his post I say “Ditto!!”

    Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I become like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I become like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I become like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I become weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all means possible I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings. 1 Corinthians 9:19-23

  16. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… I love the “more later”… as a dog awaits his bone, *or returns to his vomit* so do the rumor seeking await more context.
    Yes, Mart has given us a great gift of expressing some thoughts that probably would not have taken us over, unless presented as he has so skillfully has done here.
    The topics are so rendered with many bunny trails, we all can “get lost” in the details.
    We are as mentioned, sensitized, politicized, and traumatized in the process, but, it is only to the extent that we have been Evangelized, that could possibly lend any real value to our comments!
    We seem to play constantly with, as Marma states,
    Our national pass time, to pass judgment on others theology.
    Sorry for Rob Bell, that I can’t also place him into a judgmental box as would be fitting of a US Christian,
    But, as a Holy Spirit driven child, I trust this passage will not go continously unmeritted,to protect one’s past Doctrinal Stance on Salvation.
    Mattew 10:32-33 is very clear to those who’s ears allow God to pass His Judgment without their helpful opinions.
    Here’s a rumor… David fell away, but repented into Salvation once “AGAIN,” Judas, the Appointed by Christ Apostle fell away, but took his life in his own hands instead. No amount of context worshiping will change these outcomes. The outcome of Judas will not be changed by our well informed Doctrinal Positions.
    “It is written”…and they are given as warnings in scripture for our application today, more than for our judgmental information. Context informs, Scripture transforms!
    Let’s all keep Christ as the main rumor…Gary

  17. marma says:

    I have a good friend who used to work for an internet news/information site. She educated me about how stories are written for the internet-especially headings. These teasers are often written to intentionally push emotional button. The more buttons that can be pushed, the more clicks, the more clicks, the more views, and the more ads get seen.

    Admittedly, the social sites have added a new dimension with info going viral at light speed. Some of these stories started out on news sites, or ended up on news sites. Some are more or less harmless (the baby laughing video, for example), but some broadcasting very questionable information about people, events, and ideas.

    When the thing presents a negative view on a subject, organization or person, via the same s/o/p’s own website/blog, witness how rapidly that information disappears from the source. I could give an example of that, but don’t want to go off topic.

    The old saying (still true) is let the buyer beware. Same goes for the internet — let the reader beware. The lesson is, we need to be good Bereans about all the information that comes our way, and if we don’t have time to research, take it with a grain of salt.

  18. SFDBWV says:

    For those who are awaiting Mr. Bell’s thoughts concerning heaven and hell, and engaged in the chatter of rumor mongering, I feel very badly for you.

    I do not know how the internet works as marma, but I agree with her (?) comments completely.

    I am often amazed at how what someone considers newsworthy on the internet is as old a story as can be imagined. I too can give plenty of examples, but they all lead to the fact that facts are not important to the fast moving information that travels at the speed of light all over the world, via the internet. A great deal of the time many internet news stories are just asinine, yet there they are for the misinformed and anxious to gobble down.

    Somehow people have lost sight of the dangers of bearing false witness against their neighbor. How such an activity, as the continuance of a rumor can destroy lives.

    Most of us have been victim to false rumors, it is very upsetting. Yet somehow even if able to set the record straight, the damage is most often already done and there are people who would rather believe an exciting lie than the dull truth.

    This part of our topic reminds me of watching the President or some other official make a speech on TV, followed by another hour of someone telling you what was said completely contrary to what you heard. The difference is only that the spin of opinion is done in reverse with rumors prior to facts.

    Snowing heavily here and that is no rumor.

    Steve

  19. poohpity says:

    Christ isn’t a rumor He is truth, The Way, The Life, The Word and is the very likeness of God.

  20. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh…Now there’s some truth that doesn’t hurt anyone!
    Not only the *very likeness* but He was fully man, and fully God!
    And then, I’ve heard… there is always that Living Spirit thing going around about Him as well.
    It is becoming very popular and speading everywhere!
    No snow today in Florida! Gary

  21. poohpity says:

    The result was that, before drawing blood, the whole community of “Been Thinking” had a chance to clarify their facts and return to their own homes in peace.

    In a day when the internet gives us a chance for gossip on steroids, never has there been more need to get our facts straight before humoring our enemies, and killing family, with untimely words and judgments. Mart De Haan March 05, 2011

  22. florida7sun says:

    Mart, for years, I have been blessed by you and the De Haan family. Thank you for your faithfulness to the Word of God. There is only so much time in a day for many of us to consider all that is offered in the marketplace of ideas and opinions. Consistently, without reservation, I have found an abundance of nourishment and refreshment in “Our Daily Bread” as well as other resources produced by those who labor in love at RBC Ministries.

    God bless you, Mart, your colleagues and staff for the quality of your message in presenting the Gospel message.

    Ray

  23. Regina says:

    Good Evening All
    Hope all is well with you.
    Mart, I enjoyed reading your informative blog topic. Had never even heard of Rob Bell.
    Charis, I second your comment about Mart’s gentle and Christ-like approach toward Bell, but I want to add that as true sons and daughters of God, we love Jesus and *Christians, those who have been born-again (who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior and LORD). We love those who have not accepted Jesus too; we don’t love their sinful nature (unChrist-like behavior).

    Sunny and warm in Texas today (low/mid 60’s).

  24. Regina says:

    Jeff, your statement,
    “The important thing is to know there are consequences for rejecting the grace offered by Jesus Christ, It’s up to God to decide what the punishment will be.”

    brought to mind this Bible passage…
    Deut. 30:19-20, NIV:
    19) This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. *Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20) and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the LORD is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

  25. marma says:

    Steve: Yes, it is “her.” :)

    Thinking about the comments about rumors and the idea of false witness made me think of a website devoted to debunking urban legends, but also verifying when they are based on true stories.

    So many of my well-meaning friends pass along information which is just a recirculation of an urban legend that turns out to have been around as long as email, and maybe longer. They end up cluttering my email on a daily basis, and I’ve ended up just deleting them. For a while I’d research them, and then email my friends saying this is just a UL, but it got to be that it took up too much time.

    Just because something sounds true or credible doesn’t mean it is, and it pays to be cautious about what we hear, read, or see, not just on the internet, but in life. The internet is just a tool–a very able and speedy one–that facilitates a problem that has been around since before the time of Joshua, as Mart points out.

  26. rivergal says:

    I guess I don’t travel in the same social media circles as Mart because I hadn’t heard about Rob Bell’s new book until I read about it here. Even my reformed pastor friends hadn’t been posting about it…yet.

    I agree with Marma’s take on this, especially as it concerns coverage by the major media outlets (ABCNews, NYT, WaPo, HuffPo, etc.) These sites survive the way traditional media survives – by advertising. Where TV and radio make money by selling advertising, and base their rates on market share and audience, the internet news sites sell similarly, but in terms of impressions (how many folks see an ad on a page that contains a story) and click-throughs(how many click on an ad presented on the page.) Stories about anything that seemingly rock the Christian faith are guaranteed clicks for them, and the more scandalous the headline, the more clicks on the link, impressions, and click-throughs (and $$$!)

    On the local TV station where I worked, we had “evergreen” stories that we’d trot out every sweep. One such story was the latest version of “dirty restaurants” – those restaurants that had the worst health violations. I see stories like many covering Rob Bell’s book as the religious equivalent in their vast appeal and in the reason for their coverage by major news outlets.

    As for outlets like christianitytoday.com, they have a legitimate reason for covering this type of story. However, I would still question any story that relied on speculation about a book that the journalist had either just received third hand report of, or had read only a portion of the entire work.

    Because of my experience in the internet news industry and local broadcast news (yes, I’m the person Marma refered to), I scarcely ever watch local news and rarely read the major news outlets online either. Interestingly enough, I do manage to keep informed without being overly beguiled or titilated by the sensationalism that is the mainstream and local news media.

  27. bratimus says:

    The controversies or gossip over this book, was it idel chit chat that went to far or is it a marketing tool to promote sells of a book. A few people on their post said they would have never heard about about the book if it was for this topic. i never heard of the guy or book or anything he has done. Tried to find out about Rob Bell his church but got the generic mission staement and lost interest in finding out anymore. Discussing topics on scriputure is cool, but falling into a marketing campaign for a book not that much fun.

  28. Mikek says:

    Since December 2001, I have fought against rumor that I didn’t believe the Bible was the Word of God. A Baptist church condemned me for heresy because I refused to exegete and teach from the KJV and an English Dictionary. I wanted to teach from the original languages. While looking for a another place of worship my congregation voted to condemn me to Hell as a heretic for not believing in the Scriptures. The lie spread quickly and still cast a shadow today. I know because I see the point of recognition in the eyes of someone once they remember what happened.

    As a side note, my sons attend a private school attached to a Baptist church that supported the decision to condemn me and almost ruin my ministry. They have said I cannot fellowship there…but they take my tuition payments!

  29. SFDBWV says:

    Yes rivergal mainstream news has become something other than what it was intended to be. Because it has become a tool of manipulation by all whose desire it is to influence our thinking. Sin has a way of doing that, ruining everything it touches.

    So how then do we proceed in being informed with not trusting those whose profession is to inform us? There is danger here in becoming paranoid, or at least causing us to withdraw into isolation.

    If we become dependant on our churches for accurate unbiased information, might we regress back into the dark ages of empowering the church with too much control?

    I do try to keep informed by a variety of means, but must remember that it is a trust between me and my news sources. Once burned for misinformation, are we able to regain trust again? Perhaps a little but that blemish is always present in our thinking.

    Our government is best at propaganda and the use of news media as a tool to influence our thinking. I think we may be in trouble, as it seems to only be getting worse.

    It would seem we must rely more and more on the Holy Spirit’s ability to open our eyes and hearts to the truth, as well as the untruths around us.

    Steve

  30. florida7sun says:

    Well said rivergal and Steve. Everyone’s contributions here have been a blessing to me, taking me to John’s Gospel:

    “I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.” – John 16:12-15

    Much of the news media and publishing empires are controlled by profiteers who delete in amusement by stirring the pot of controversy. Truth is often lost in the process of deception.

    I understand HarperCollins is owned by the News Corporation, which is predominantly controlled by Rupert Murdoch. He is quoted as saying, “For better or for worse, our company (The News Corporation Ltd.) is a reflection of my thinking, my character, my values.”

    All of us can be deluded by our own thinking, character and values – even church leaders. “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” – Romans 3:23

    That’s why I, for one, have to rely on Jesus’ Word and Holy Spirit to discern the truth from salesmen selling snake oil from the back of someone’s wagon. There are alot of wagons passing through town. Many never stop at the Cross of my Savior and Lord.

    Love to all, Ray

  31. SFDBWV says:

    I am reminded of a story I read many years ago about Randolph Hearst. It seems he had been present or had heard a sermon by Billy Graham. He used his power as the boss of his news empire to make Billy Graham newsworthy, and so his face and his message was printed worldwide at an elevated rate.

    Was Randolph Hearst so overwhelmed by this man and his message, or was he simply used by God to get the message out?

    I would guess we may not know that answer for sure, but I would like to think that maybe it was a combination of both.

    Speaking of Rupert Murdoch, Fox news is known for its pro Christian stance, and so its use of “conservative” Christian values being expressed. Much to the chagrin of MSNBC and their opposition to Christianity and her values.

    Is this another example of media manipulation or another means of getting the message out?

    Realigning myself back to rumors, I am reminded of a game we used to play as children. Several of us would set in a line of maybe 10. A comment was given to the first child who was to turn and whisper it to the person setting next to them, this would proceed until the last child who would stand and give the message they were given out loud.

    It was a game and intended to be fun, without exception the original message was completely changed into some other comment by the time it had reached the ears of the last child.

    There was also a lesson to be learned by this game, as it showed how things get out of hand and misrepresented as easy as the game showed.

    7 inches of wet heavy spring time snow, it is what we hillbillies call a robin snow. As the robins began to show up last week and they always get snowed on when they come home.

    There is also a service berry snow as it usually snows after it has bloomed, a cow snow to commemorate the snow that comes when the cows have their calves, as well as an onion snow that comes after the onions have been planted.

    Winter is rarely over here until summer gets here.

    Steve

  32. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    The only Rob Bell I have heard about is a Robert Bell who is a local artist in West Cornwall,
    He does seascapes and I have a framed print of his over my bed.
    As for this other guy, who is he?

    Bob

  33. poohpity says:

    In the military they call it “scuttle butt” the rumors and gossip that float around. There are several scriptures that deal with gossip Exodus 23:1 “Do not spread false reports. Do not help a guilty person by being a malicious witness. Proverbs 25:18 Like a club or a sword or a sharp arrow is one who gives false testimony against a neighbor.

    On a more positive note our words can benefit those who hear them as Eph 4:29 says, “Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.” Or Philippians 2:3; Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves.

    So it is not really about Rob Bell it is people talking about something that no one has ever read and making statements about someone they know nothing about and the trouble it can cause. If it gets more people to read his book then good for him. If it brings attention to Christ in some way, good going.

  34. poohpity says:

    Mart you said, “From what I read from the whole story of Genesis to Revelation, I’m sure that the wisdom and character of our God will make heaven as wonderful as it can be, and hell as only as terrible as it needs to be”.

    Do you think the reason that people seek more knowledge about heaven and hell is because they have not read what is written? Or do they want more assurance than what is already written? I feel like hell will be a place without a relationship with God which we will find no comfort only torment and longing.

  35. SFDBWV says:

    Rumor; 1 General talk not based on definite knowledge; mere gossip; hearsay. 2. An unconfirmed report, story, or statement in general circulation. 3 [ Archaic] fame. 4. [Obs.] loud protest, clamor, or uproar, to tell, report, or spread by rumor as a rumor. New World Dictionary.

    Obs. Being obsolete. Isn’t it interesting how we as a people make the meanings of words obsolete? Rendering then a different understanding then as it was intended to be used as.

    All of the uses of rumor in the Old Testament are explained as such “Something heard”. Though expanded upon, in the Greek use in the New Testament, it still means something heard.

    In Jeremiah 49: 14 as in Obadiah 1:2, the rumor came from the Lord. So it would appear that God had His reasons to spread the word in the form of a rumor.

    Luke reports in 7: 17 that after Jesus had raised the widows’ son at Nain that fear came upon those who witnessed the miracle and all glorified God and thought Jesus to be a great prophet. That this “rumor of Him went forth throughout the nation and all about.

    What rumor? That He had raised the dead or that He was a great prophet? (Mark 8: 28) Whereas He had indeed raised the dead, He was much more than a mere prophet. 2000 years later there are those in that region of the world that still believe that Jesus was “a great prophet”. However they fall short of proclaiming Him the Son of God.

    It is recorded by Jesus Himself that the ability to recognize that He Jesus is the Son of God comes only from the Father which is in heaven (Matt 16: 17) not by flesh and blood.

    Recorded in John 21: 20-23 when ask about what kind of death John might suffer, Jesus said what does it matter if he lives until I return. So a “rumor went out that “that disciple” would not die. Though that was not what Jesus had said at all, he simply ask, what is it to you if I want him to live until I come?

    So it seems even those men who were standing right there with Jesus step by step were also guilty of misunderstanding what was said and spreading a falsehood, a “rumor”.

    Steve

  36. florida7sun says:

    Bob, in attempting to answer your question, Rob Bell is the Founding Pastor of Mars Hill Bible Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He graduated from Wheaton College in Wheaton, Illinois, and Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, California. He is the author of Velvet Elvis and Sex God, and is a coauthor of Jesus Wants to Save Christians. He is also featured in the first series of spiritual short films called NOOMA. – Biographical information on the website of Mars Hill Bible Church.

    Additional insight into Mart’s blog can be found in “Heaven, Hell, and Rob Bell: Putting the Pastor in Context” by Mark Galli published in “Christianity Today” on March 2, 2011. Mr. Galli, senior editor, writes:

    “(To be fair, in my reading of an advance copy of Bell’s book, I didn’t see universalism, though there are statements that lean in that direction. He clearly says that God’s love can be “resisted and rejected and denied and avoided,” and that doing so “is a form of punishment of its own” and “an increasingly unloving hellish reality.” In this respect, he seems to be in company with ideas implicit in C. S. Lewis’s The Great Divorce. All told, with his usual assortment of refreshing metaphors and bursts of insight, I found myself appreciating anew both the power and love of God. But he is not a careful writer. Some of his arguments are confusing, and he sometimes is more interested in scoring points than in offering a clear alternative. For example, he assumes that to adopt the standard view of justification is to believe that Jesus is saving us from God—it’s compelling rhetoric with an element of truth, but in the end an unfair characterization. But that is a review for another day. Watch for the April issue of CT.)”

    For me, the matter is way too deep. I can only accept Jesus as a child and take comfort in His presence.

    Beautiful day here in sunny Florida.

  37. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    florida7sun,

    My question is still the same…..

    Who is he?

    he means absolutely nothing to me and I suspect 99.99% of the rest of this planet.

    get real

    Bob

  38. skj1936 says:

    I believe when Jesus said that we are in the end times, it becomes very crucial that we follow Him today with greater passion. “Gossip” especially of our family member was not his teaching;once “WWJD” (What Would Jesus Do?) was fashionable, maybe it is something we should always ask ourselves before we commit to any action.
    GB

  39. poohpity says:

    Bob CE, he is a child of God and means something to the Lord just like you do. :-)

  40. rivergal says:

    Steve, I agree that sinking into isolationism isn’t the answer to the multitude of agendas that fuel the world of news media. As you said, being informed by a variety of sources is important, and I would add also keeping that Berean mindset of testing what you see and read – what our teachers used to call critical thinking (and what they used to teach, too!)

    To that end I tend to frequent websites that post news stories from a variety of sources, particularly ones that post not only mainstream, but also reputable blog publications. I stay away from the mainstream home pages because it’s too difficult to find the “real news” in the midst of all the celebrity tabloid stories. Also they tend to set as “top news” according to agenda, rather than what I would most need or want to know.

    Getting back to the issue at hand, I agree with Bob that it’s really not that important right now for me to know who Rob Bell is. However, if I had a non-believing friend or young believer asking me about the content of Bell’s book, I would pick up a copy and read reviews by biblical authorities, then prayerfully respond.

  41. bratimus says:

    All that is really needed to be known about Heaven and hell is this.

    Heaven is having the presense of God for eternity!

    hell is no presence of God at all.

    Even when troubles comes on Earth today, Ood’s presence is here.

  42. poohpity says:

    rivergal, if I had to name the most helpful class in college it was critical thinking in the lower level classes. It was called “Elements of Argument”. It was very enlightening.

  43. tracy888 says:

    Has anyone read Velvet Elvis by Rob Bell. I read parts of it and handed it back.It was the worst thing I have ever read as a “Christian book”. We need more discernment in these last days.Sorry Rob is off my list.

  44. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Thanks Deb/Pooh,

    Yes we are all loved by God and I know I am!
    I have been having my doubts lately, but The Lord has blessed me this weekend in some very profound but simple ways, proving His love for me.
    I was on the brink of giving up but in reality was on the brink of a miracle.
    Interesting that I had a spiritual blessing at church but God used secular friends to recognise my physical needs.
    I guess we just have to “hang in there” and bless The Lord at all times.

    Bob

  45. poohpity says:

    Amen, Bob!!

  46. BruceC says:

    Glad to hear all is well Bob. The Lord put you in my mind yesterday; so I prayed for you.

    Early Sunday evening the rain we were getting chnaged to snow and the temp dropped. By Monday morning we had 20 inches of it! I am still sore from manhandling my 10 horse snowblower. It was very wet and compact. Really looking foward to spring!

    BruceC
    Soli Deo Gloria!

  47. SFDBWV says:

    I agree with Mart that no more need be said concerning heaven and hell than what is found in scripture. The remainder being conjecture of human thinking.

    My parents had a copy of Dante’s Inferno, as a young boy it was very frightening to read of such horrible torment and to think it could happen to me or my loved ones.

    One could be correct in saying it scared hell into my thinking, not out of me.

    Over the course of my life I have read several books about heaven, some by people who believed they had gone there in near death experiences.

    I don’t remember ever reading any other books about hell, but a few peoples accounting of it, again in recounting near death experiences.

    I believe that there is a consciousness after death; I also believe that when we die we either go to paradise or a place of torment. Places that are no longer under the restraints of time and that there, souls await the rapture and or resurrection. Either into the kingdom of Heaven or the judgment as the lake of fire.

    However the Psalms state that God is everywhere his creation is, even in hell. (Psalm 139: 8)

    Steve

  48. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… I never heard anything about God being in Hell
    but it may well be. The torment as I read it, will be this total separation from God, so that it difficult to visualize,
    God’s presence and absence at the same time and place
    as those who are condemmed to be separated forever.
    Maybe a scriptural reference is needed to clear this up.
    Until then, I cling to eternal separation as being Hell!
    Then, there is this darkness thing going on in my mind also, where Heaven is Light, and Hell is forever Dark. Gary

  49. oneg2dblu says:

    florida7sun… 3-7 2:43 comments…
    I’m distressed that you were served up a “get real”
    for your efforts to answer a question posed on this site.
    Especially after you responded in love and concern for the one who asked. You were most informative, and real about what you conveyed, and for that I say, “Thank you
    for being real,” for taking *real time* and *real effort* to respond. I relish your participation here, and hope that another curt reply is not unfairly applied.
    For that tresspass…I am sorry. It is just what can happen when one’s words are taken IN CONTEXT, Who is Rob —-, was exactly what I saw as well, and I’m lucky it wasn’t my turn to be treated as you were. You were open, honest, and trusting that what you wrote, would be recieved in love, and not made the brunt of another’s comedic ploy.
    Mart introduced the name, Rob Bell, that we were talking about, and no one said get real to him!:)
    Please accept these heart felt words here as being real as you were, to answer in the fullness you have.
    It seems that Rob Bell’s godly artistic landscapes, cast in several mediums, were known by more than just Mart, and your efforts have helped complete the picture of him for me as well. Gary

  50. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    :-)

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