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The Roll of the Dice

Photo by: Sebastian Tauchmann

Let’s take a second look at the two proverbs we took off from in our last post.

I asked whether it is biblical to settle an argument by drawing straws, flipping a coin, or rolling the dice after referring to:

“We may throw the dice, but the LORD determines how they fall (Prov 16:33 NLT).

“Casting lots can end arguments and settle disputes between powerful opponents” (Prov 18:18).

Seems to me that while the second (18:18) does refer to using “lots” to resolve a dispute, the first (16:33) is stated not as a way to settle an issue but as a basis for trusting a God who is powerful and present enough to oversee even the outcomes we regard as “chance” (Prov 16:1-3; 9).

The mystery is that God can reserve for himself that kind of control while still giving us real freedom, choice, and responsibility.

So let’s leave 16:33 in the background and go on to 18:18 to ask, “Is it biblical to draw straws, flip a coin, or roll the dice to resolve a dispute?” Seems to me that because the question is framed around the “biblical” thing to do in the context of resolving a conflict, we need to give as much attention as necessary to the big picture of the Bible so that we can consider the part in light of the whole.

If we do think about the bigger story of the Bible, we might be reminded in the face of conflict, for instance, that our own personal security is in One who is great enough to determine even “the roll of the dice.”  Yet when this great God showed up in the person of his Son,  he taught us by his own example not to try and take control of the divine hand (Matt 4:5-7). Interestingly, on another occasion, when a man appealed to Jesus to help him settle an inheritance dispute with his brother, the Lord didn’t just tell them to “flip a coin.” (Luke 12:13-15).

So when it comes finding the time to use “lots/dice” to settle a dispute, the answer is probably something like, given our understanding of the circumstances, is i.e. “flipping a coin” the fair and appropriate thing to do? To the extent that relationships are in view, is this a lovingly friendly way of resolving the issue? And maybe, (if this involves us personally),  can we do this as an expression of our faith in God our Provider, regardless of how this turns out?

Last night, I heard former UCLA basketball coach, John Wooden quoted as saying,  “Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out.” The fact that the Coach was well known for his integrity and faith in Christ might suggest that behind his wisdom was a conviction of our responsibility and God’s sovereignty in– what looks from a human view– like the luck of the draw.


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76 Responses to “The Roll of the Dice”

  1. florida7sun says:

    I am comforted with Romans 8:26-30. In prayer we seek His will. Each day countless choices are made. The dice are thrown in so many ways; in relationships, at work; in fellowship with others; while traveling; etc.

    Sometimes we choose a course of action. Oftentimes, people make choices that will impact us in profound ways. However. as the priest entered the tabernacle to seek God’s will, we can approach the throne of God likewise in prayer. The Lord will be with us in guiding our steps… even if we veer off in the wrong direction.

    I believe that is why the Apostle Paul encourages us to always be in prayer. Jesus is with us constantly. If we turn to the right or left, or if we look up or down, we can share our thoughts and burdens with Him, right down.

    He will give us His quiet assurance through His Word and Spirit. All choices will work out for His honor and glory. He loves His bride, as demonstrated by His victory over death and despair at Calvary.

    Ray

  2. poohpity says:

    Have to say Mart was a little confused by the post today. I do not know if I am confused about so much in life right now that it effected my thoughts on this topic. Wouldn’t every decision we make about anything be the throw of the dice? If we fear making any decisions one way or another make us carry a set of dice around with us all the time. I sometimes ask God about something and throw the dice and then say well let me try it again for the best two out of three.

    I have even laid out a fleece for decisions but am I using the brain God gave me and wisdom also from Him to come to some sort of conclusion. Or is it what ever choice I make that as long as it doesn’t go against the law of love it will work out or try again.

  3. SFDBWV says:

    Thinking of my faith and spiritually; I believe I said all I could in the last topic of this topic.

    However if the question is ask, if flipping a coin or rolling dice can settle disputes in a worldly concept, then it is a simple yes.

    To flip a coin and see who receives or defends before a football game is just a good simple way to get the matter resolved.

    However who would flip a coin to decide whether to get married, or take a job, or any serious decision? That would be foolish, and not in line with biblical wisdom.

    If you want answers to serious questions, then pray about it until you get a clear answer, and be patient and ready to accept God’s answer not your preconceived answer.

    Steve

  4. oneg2dblu says:

    Mart… flipping a coin is playing with numbers more than using your faith.
    I think instead of flipping the coin, to find if it is heads or tails, 50/50 chance every time.
    We should be as Christ Follwers, more like Living on the Edge, always believing that God is directing our outcome as long as we keep the faith he has given us, because He who has started a good work in us, will bring it to completion,and ALL Things work together for the good of those who love Him.
    Toss that out, or throw it up in the air to fall as it may, and you are gambling with eternal things greater than we could ever explain here. We are to hold fast to the Word of God, Prayer fervently, often, deeply, honestly, and even ALWAYS! Why give chance a chance to cause you to fall? Staying Under His Influence, is the only chance worth taking. Gary

  5. poohpity says:

    Yesterday morning I woke up at 6am crying and feeling a lot of fear. So I called all my children to find out if everything was all right. The kids dad came over because I was so upset and I kept telling him there is something horrible going to happen. I was being funny by saying there is a disruption in the force like on “Star Wars”. When I turned the TV on this morning I was shocked to see all that has happened in Japan. Praying for the well being of all those people in the wake of this earthquake and tsunami. Please hold all those people in your hands for protection and escape. In Jesus name I pray.

  6. Mart De Haan says:

    poohpity, I’ve been preoccupied with work and didn’t even know that Japan had been hit with a catastrophic earthquake and tsunami.That you’ve expressed such alarm and compassion for the people of Japan seems so “Christlike”. That you sensed something was about to happen– so mysterious!!!

  7. oneg2dblu says:

    Forgive us Lord, as we only see our circumstances, and find we are unable to conquer them, but only in our weakness can we find your strength, in our darkness your light, in our stmumbling your guiding hand.
    Lord hear our prayers, and bring upon those who are in peril today, a peace they could not know without you.
    Impress upon them your Presence as they call out to you.
    Protect those who cannot protect themselves, provide for those who a cannot provide for themselves and bring your Holy Spirit into their midst in such a way that it cannot go unseen, unfelt, unknown, in Jesus name have Mercy on them who are in peril today! It is for them
    we pray to you, Our Only Current and Eternal Hope! Amen

  8. bratimus says:

    What comes to mind on this, is Solomon going to split a baby in half to settle a dispute.

  9. Mart De Haan says:

    bratimus, that’s a good example. When justice was needed to solve a very difficult dispute, God gave Solomon wisdom to understand how to draw out the heart of a mother… and the one who was wronging her.

  10. oneg2dblu says:

    florida7sun 9:10 “as the priest enters the tabernacle, so can we approach boldly in prayer today, the throne of God.” Yes we can Approach Boldly, and without a worldly tether attached as well. For our approach, in the Age of Grace, is given without restraint. Open, honest, and totally exposed do we approach a Holy God. Even the priests of old, did not have this freedom we take boldly today! Being untethered as well as being held captive through our renewed minds, that’s what rings as truely free to me, and only to those who are His, for they have been called, and have responded! Gary

  11. poohpity says:

    Hey Mart, I have known you long enough that you do not have to sugar coat something for me by saying, “so mysterious!!!” I know it is weird, lol. ;-)

  12. tracey5tgbtg says:

    I have never thought that casting lots, throwing dice, drawing straws, etc was something that the Bible was recommending I do. Just like I’ve never thought that one man having multiple wives was something the Bible was telling us to do. When you say “biblical” do you mean something that is in the Bible and that God’s people did, or do you mean something that the Bible is leading us to do in our own lives?
    Or are you asking “how do we know the difference?”

    I know sometimes we don’t know the answer and we have to trust God in those situations.

    I can see flipping a coin to make an impartial judgement like the football game call, but to say I’m going to carry my coin around with me so God can always tell me what I should do through it seems wrong somehow.

    “Casting the lot settles disputes, and keeps strong opponents apart.” This could be good advice in some situations, but I don’t see it as a command.

  13. bubbles says:

    Off toipic, but VERY thankful for answered prayers this morning. I have a friend in Hawaii. God was so good to protect her from the tsunami this morning. Her apartment/workplace were in a safe zone.

  14. Mart De Haan says:

    poohpity, no, I really meant mysterious :-)

  15. Mart De Haan says:

    tracey5tgbtg, You’re right. The Bible doesn’t say that “casting lots” is a way of determining the will of God. But it does seem to say that there are times when it is a wise and useful way to settle a dispute. I was trying to think through under what conditions and by what motives it would be wise.

  16. Mart De Haan says:

    Hey, I’m going to try to write shorter posts… Am hearing too much confusion lately about “the point”… :-)

  17. wpleasant says:

    I think the question of using dice or drawing straws to determine decisions or choices reflects deep a seated desire of humans to be correct or in the will of a higher power than themselves.
    It certainly isn’t restricted to Christianity. Cultures all over the globe use “devices and objects” to supposedly hear from that alleged “higher power”. Even Old Testament Israel priests used Yurim and Purim, which were stones sometimes used by priests to determine whether to go to war or not or other important decisions. (Although I don’t believe I’ve found scripture yet where God directed Moses or anyone specifically to use those stones. Would appreciate a little teaching here if someone else has an answer to that question.) The “important” decisions were made usually through the high priest or sometimes through a prophet until Israel decided to “widen the band” by worshipping the false idols for an “answer”. We have the Holy Spirit today to guide us, but I confess I am sometimes impatient for making even important choices. When I’ve jumped the gun I’ve paid for it one way on another. When I’ve waited for God it has been nothing less than wonderful and without regret, at least in the long term.

  18. poohpity says:

    Exodus 28:30; Also put the Urim and the Thummim in the breastpiece, so they may be over Aaron’s heart whenever he enters the presence of the LORD. Thus Aaron will always bear the means of making decisions for the Israelites over his heart before the LORD.

    Numbers 27:21; He is to stand before Eleazar the priest, who will obtain decisions for him by inquiring of the Urim before the LORD. At his command he and the entire community of the Israelites will go out, and at his command they will come in.”

    See also 1 Samuel 14:41; 28:6; Ezra 2:63; Nehemiah 7:65

    Some scholars say that one was a stone for yes and the other for no.

  19. bratimus says:

    The casting lots of proverb 18:!8 to settle a dispute, shows a cerian amount of honor in the parties to honor the outcome. It is almost telling us that in todays world we might not have that same honor. We have courts sytems that settle diputes with lawyers and judges and laws to make us honor the outcome. The proverbs speak of wisdom, and wisdom would be to honor the out come of the casting of lot to settle disputes. Is it really wise to go to court over every thing. The New testament even speaks of Christians settling diputes between themselves with out going to court. Maybe the proverb 18:18 is a reminder to find simple ways to settle disputes, without the big show of lawyers and mans law

  20. wpleasant says:

    Thanks poohpity for those references and using the correct term for Thummin. Thats one of the many nice things about this blog. We can support each other scripturally.

  21. Mart De Haan says:

    In thinking more about how the big picture/story of the Bible might help us put in context a proverb about using “lots” to settle a conflict, I thought of what happened when the Lord was asked by a man to help settle an inheritance dispute with the man’s brother. Jesus didn’t just tell them to flip a coin.

    So I rewrote above the paragraph above in the post about looking at a part/proverb in light of the whole (story).

  22. Mart De Haan says:

    Good question and clarification about the strange sounding Urim and Thummim. Another reminder that, as the Divine Drama of history has played out, the way we relate to our God in Christ has changed since the days of the Theocracy/God’s “direct” rule over Israel.

  23. oneg2dblu says:

    wpleasant… 3-11 10:04 ” We have the Holy Spirit today to guide us.” That “Guiding Process” is as you say, not always a quick as our patience is short. Good Post! Gary

  24. oneg2dblu says:

    bratimus…3-12 2:59 your right the “old ways” are gone, for today we have Judges, and not always God- fearing ones, making our decissions and laws.
    Many of those modern learned lawyers do not hear that same spirit, as Christ Follwers, for we know that their outcomes do not sit well with the Word of God! Gary

  25. oneg2dblu says:

    Mart… Devine Drama? Every “tic of the clock” today is history in the making of God’s Devine Drama. Every ungodly law, every ungodly position, every ungodly thinker, all predestined, ordained, orchestrated for His Purposes. How Blessed we are, Who know His Ways, and know that we get to Praise Him, even when the obvious current path is corrupted by mankind’s wrongly motivated decissions. What a time of testing, what a time of being led around the mountain, what a time of waiting for Him… Come Jesus, as your Children today are silently weeping, when we should be Loudly Protesting in the Halls of Education, Justice,and Government, Boldly Proclaiming and Always Horoning You, and Your Ways!
    The Real Drama to me… is why we are missing this “Opportunity to Stand Boldly for Him!”
    We seem to settle for silence, but for who, or what do we settle? We are being Fleeced daily, we are being Tossed as Dice into the areana of ungodliness, and flipped off as being Legalistic, Bible Bashing, Believing in those Old Time Stories, instead of Living for Him Boldly in the life we live today. Are we turning the Cheek for Him, or are we turning our eyes away from the world around us?
    Perhaps His “Still Silent Church” is the Real Drama of the Modern Age. “If my people who are called by my name…” Prayer can be an overwhelming and even “Deafening Noise,” to the ever increasing voice of Evil around us who now only hear themselves. Gary

  26. oneg2dblu says:

    Too Loud?

  27. florida7sun says:

    Praying for God’s peace and presence for all impacted by war, famine and natural disasters throughout the world. We have so much to be thankful for; His ever-abiding grace, family, loved ones. Yet, at times, we are overwhelmed and have to seek His strength in abundant measure… “when we are powerless to do a thing, it is a great joy that we can come and step inside the ability of Jesus” – Corrie ten Boom

  28. poohpity says:

    As Jesus taught in that Luke passage that if we are having disputes about things that are not that significant in the “bottom line” then we may have missed the entire point or focus of the whole story. I then wonder how important it would be to a dispute if castings lots would bring a conclusion to the decision making process if it were really not that important in the first place. The relationship itself we be the thing of value not who wins or loses then that would encompass the whole story and not just the moment.

  29. poohpity says:

    The relationship itself “would be” not we. lol my fingers and brain sometimes are not working together, nothing new under the sun. :-)

  30. poohpity says:

    I also feel like it would show a lot of faith to trust the outcome which the casting of lots finds into the hands of the ONE who can handle and work with the results.

  31. druvaughn says:

    Wouldn’t throwing the dice be the same as being tossed about by the wind?

    “Casting the lot settles disputes, and keeps strong opponents apart.”

    I see “keeps them apart” as a negative and a warning. People have a tendency to take sides which only causes a bigger rift. Isn’t the goal to be united for universal good?

  32. oneg2dblu says:

    druvauhn… United for Universal Good sounds very pleasant and soothing, where do I sign up for that?Following Christ in a world of darkness where mankind really only wants to serve himself, his own desires, his own will, makes me think that, by and through, His Calling, a “Lot has been Cast” for us, where it brings both great joy, and great division as well.
    Every democratic election we have today is divided, and winning parties only represent a small additional number of the people, the rest wait for the next election cycle. The Christ Follower Prays that it will go better the next time, but it is never settled, we will always be divided in this world!
    If we could find a nation of people who could settle all things now separating them by the casting of lots, instead of ballots, we would end all wars among us,
    but that will have to wait for the Lord’s returning.
    tic-tic-tic… Luke 12: 51-53
    “Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against wo, two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother in law against daughter in law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”
    Jesus Christ
    Thems fightin’ words, but United for the universal good, sounds nice! We all want peace, but it won’t be here and now! Here and now we pray…Gary

  33. royalpalm says:

    This is a very interesting discussion – as we all need to make decisions every moment of our lives. I would assume that the dilemma in decision making is not so much as the process (roll of the dice, etc) but the desire to do what is right – to make a righteous decision.

    How we all long to be righteous! All forms of worship and related activities are exercised by all religions to try to achieve righteousness. Unfortunately, we all fall short of the glory of God.

    Scripture tell us that it is our faith in the Lord Jesus that makes us righteous and this righteousness is given by God, not a product of our efforts.. .

    Romans 3:21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe.

    The faith that justified us when we first put our trust in the Lord Jesus should also be continually exercised daily in our lives as we wait for His coming.

    Habakkuk 2:4…”But the just shall live by his faith”

    Romans 1:17
    “For in it (Gospel) the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

    Our faith and trust in someone depends on our knowledge of that person – and this is true with God, so we need to study His word, learn of His character and attributes, and how He dealt with the people in the Scriptures in their own time and then apply this knowledge in our own lives now.

    Regarding decision making – immediate response needed -we do the best with the wisdom He gives /brings to mind at that particular moment. Asking God in prayer honors Him – do read the account of Nehemiah in the presence of King Artaxerxes in Nehemiah 2:4 Imagine being asked, “What do you request?”

    Whatever the choice, we can trust God for the results. As Prov.16:33, one of the references of all these discussions, states, “We may throw the dice, but the LORD determines how they fall (Prov 16:33 NLT)

    Psalm 18:30
    As for God, His way is perfect;The word of the LORD is proven; He is a shield to all who trust in Him.

    And other verses to comfort us like Romans 8:28-39…”All things work together for the good of those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose…..nothing shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

  34. davids says:

    I think that flipping a coin is a great solution.

    Of course, we must search the Word about spiritual matters. Sure, we must use discernment where we can. Yes, we must investigate and use reason.

    But sometimes the voice of the Spirit is not clear. Sometimes the evidence of the best path is too balanced. In these times, the parties can just continue to struggle and bicker.

    If we are to believe the stories and movies, people used to be more willing to let the decision be determined by the flip of a coin or the draw of the cards.

    If the leaders of a congregation are divided over whether to use bread or wafers, why not let a coin settle it, in confidence that God will set things right in the end?

    To continue otherwise might only be a stubborn insistence that we know the right way more than those who disagree.

    Shall we flip on it?

  35. bratimus says:

    Now is Proverbs 18:18 truly aimed at the God fearing people, or is it showing the wisdom of a King to deal with many different peoples. King Solomon didn’t ask God for riches in possesions, but asked God to be rich in wisdom. Proverbs are the wise sayings of Solomon. In Solomon asking God for wisdom instead of possession. Goes to what Jesus says in the new passage Mart add Luke 12:13-15.

    Rolling the dice for a dispute over possessions is probably wiser then killing each other for them.

    Lots were also cast for the cloths of Jesus as He hung on the Cross to possese them.

    So i don’t know if casting lots is for the God fearing, or away a wise King ended disputes between pagans and heathens.

  36. SFDBWV says:

    As I watch the scenes from Japan here warm, dry and comfortable in my home; I am ashamed for asking God for anything for myself.

    The human suffering that is ongoing there from this disaster is difficult to watch without crying, what is worse I can do nothing to alleviate their suffering.

    Why does a loving God allow such misery in the world? How well I know all the pat answers for that question, but none of them eases the suffering and pain of living in the middle of hell on earth. I suppose that is one of the reasons it is said, “The peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus”.

    Is it an opportunity for people to show the love of Christ by coming to the aid of these people? I will seek a way to help however I can, but it seems so small compared to the enormity of the situation.

    All I can do for now is pray for these people and that Christ returns soon and ends this curse upon His creation.

    Steve

  37. poohpity says:

    I guess that is the importance of knowing the whole story. We can look at these events and how big they are or we can look at how enormous our God is. The best way to fight this battle is on our knees and praising God in this situation not for the situation but that He is there in it with all those who are suffering.

  38. poohpity says:

    Steve, I said I guess that is the importance of knowing the whole story and we do not know that only God does. I said the same thing when I was in Africa. How can God allow all these children to go without family because of the death caused by the AIDS pandemic. Grave yard after grave yard with not only the adults but children when we here in America have so much medication and they have none. We have so much food and they MAY have only one meal a day and then they do not even have one adult to look after them. They have older sisters and brothers that are 9 to 12 years old to look out for their families. I asked God and my response was you pick one to help. I chose two.

    I am thankful that although what has happened is very horrible, I know what could have happened may have been worse. The tsunami could have hit a more populous area and although I may not see God’s hand in all this I must trust His heart.

  39. poohpity says:

    Where is God in all this? In the hands of the members of the Red Cross with blankets, water, food and shelter. He is in the loving arms of those who pray and give those hurting, arms to hold them. He is in the tech programs that have allowed people to be in contact with those that they love. He is in the ships that are providing support and transportation whether they know they are being used by God or not.

  40. royalpalm says:

    Hello, bratimus, I agree with you – we have to remember that Proverbs is wisdom for practical living and we have to be careful in distinguishing them from God’s promises.

    They are observations, comments, advice, etc. by King Solomon who had been endowed with wisdom and knowledge by God in response to his praise and gratitude, and desire to lead the people justly,that he acknowledged that God had entrusted to him – at the beginning of his reign. (I Kings 3:6-15)

    For the period that he honored God and recognized that the people and his kingdom were God’s and he was God’s king for Him, Solomon did very well. Unfortunately power and riches made him forget His calling and his life did not end well, resulting in the split of his kingdom after his death.

    Great lesson for me and each one of us.

  41. SFDBWV says:

    John 11: 35; “Jesus wept.” May be the shortest verse of scripture, but it speaks volumes. Luke 19: 41; “And when He was come near, He beheld the city, and wept over it,” Once again when Jesus speaks we learn.
    Did Jesus know the whole story? You bet He did. Did Jesus know the mind of God? You can bet He did.

    He wept because He had compassion for the suffering of people.

    All the agencies that come to the aide of the people of Japan are made up of people, without people doing the work of rescue and relief, there is nothing accomplished.

    I am proud that the US Navy was one of the first relief groups on the scene to aid in the feeding of the victims.

    I may not be able to go to Japan and help, but I can give what I can to agencies like Billy Graham’s Samaritan Purse or some other organization I trust.

    Of course I have been in prayer for these people, but still my heart weeps for their suffering. Many lost everything they owned and every member of their family, for many there will be no healing from this ever.

    Unlike New Orleans after Katrina, these magnificent people are concerned with helping each other not complaining about their government not looting and resorting to animal behavior. Perhaps we can learn something from their character.

    Steve

  42. koshy says:

    Hi Mart. I dont write often. but saw your thoughts on casting lots and felt like asking you thoughts on one thing which I have been wondering about. This is on the casting of lots in the book of acts for a replacement for Judas. Did Peter and the disciples err by casting lots. There they cast lots between Matthias and Barsabbas, but did not give a third option like none of these. I do not know the bible history well enough, but at least in the Bible thre is nothing further on them. Whereas Paul became know as an apostle. So it would seem that Paul was Gods choice and Peter and the other disciples made an error in judgement by casting lots especially in such an close ended manner.

  43. davids says:

    Hi Koshy,

    Perhaps Mart has a different insight into this, but I’ll venture a few points.

    The first is that in Acts 20-21 Peter says that they have a responsibility to find a replacement for Judas. The wording in the NIV is, “It is necessary”. There were requirements, so not everyone was qualified.

    Second, there was some kind of nominating process. We don’t know anything about that, except that two names emerged that both seem to meet the requirements and have support.

    Third, our modern minds would say, “Put them to a vote.” But this is an anachronism. These people had probably never voted on anything in their life. Every aspect of their political and religious lives would have been determined by appointed leaders. Even in so-called democratic Athens of the day, only a very small part of the population was able to vote.

    Maybe they did vote and there was a tie. In any event, the possibility of doing nothing was excluded and they had to choose between two qualified candidates. They did not simply draw lots, but rather appealed to God for guidance: “Then they prayed, ‘Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry'”.

    As I wrote above, maybe this is sometimes the best way to put a divisive issue to rest and move on.

  44. bratimus says:

    After reading Koshy post I google casting lots, this isn’t the first group to discuss the casting of lots if it is Biblical. it is said the casting of lots is mentioned 70 in the Old Testament and 7 in the New Testament.

    It sounds like God let the casting of Lots be used to determine things in the Old testament. With the arrival of Jesus this changed. As Jesus replasced animal sacrifices for sin. The arrival of the Holy spirit is to help us decide on things.

    As casting lots was once a Biblical practice, human nature has a way of taking the Biblical and turning it into a game. Which shows us the need for Christ, Christ through the Holy Spirit can help us fight our human nature.

    Casting lots are still in use to day, we just call it lottery now, and we use the lottery system outside of gambling.

  45. davids says:

    To follow up on other points, the fact that we don’t hear any more about Matthias does not necessarily mean that the Apostles made a mistake. We don’t hear any more about most of “the Twelve” in the New Testament.

    Paul was the “Apostle to the Gentiles”, but at the time of Matthias’ appointment, Paul was persecting Christians. In Acts 14, Barnabas is also called an Apostle, so the term seems to have stretched beyond the Twelve.

  46. BruceC says:

    Steve,

    My wife and I have also held up Japan in prayer.

    And we also support Samaritan’s Purse. It doesn’t do much good to feed and cloth folks without telling them about Christ and why we do these things out of love.

    Fox News reported that Christian groups are usually the first to help as they have everything in place already for times like these and because of Church history of helping those in need. The Lord be glorified!!

    BruceC
    Soli Deo Gloria!

  47. SFDBWV says:

    Just a minor thought concerning the casting of lots in order to know God’s. In 1978 Pope Paul VI died.

    The long drawn out affair of “electing” a new pope occurred complete with the little white puff of smoke coming out of the chimney to signal that the Holy Spirit had given approval to the newly elected Pope. Pope John Paul.

    Within 30 days he died.

    The entire process had to be done over again, it would seem this time they got a better man.

    Pope John Paul II was to be the new Pope. I am not a Catholic, but this man had a dramatic influence on the world and it would seem the right man for the job.

    I for one rely on prayer and conformation from the Holy Spirit for deciding how to proceed within God’s will.

    One way of knowing you are not in God’s will, are the many obstacles He puts in your path in order to get your attention, I believe Paul called it kicking against the pricks.

    Steve

  48. pegramsdell says:

    Amen BruceC and Steve and others that expressed that God be glorified in all of this. He was most surely in this whole thing. He is shaking things up. It is hard to watch people suffer, but He said these things would happen. I give Him glory. He loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten Son (Jesus) for whosoever will.

  49. oneg2dblu says:

    bratimus… you lost me on the comparing the lottery to being a modern day casting of lots, saying the lottery is outside of gambling. Does outside mean not counted as?
    What decision is settled by playing the lottery? None!
    Who does not gamble when they play the lottery? None!
    The lottery is gambling, and playing with numbers, and playing with lady luck, all go against biblical practice
    and teaching for us today.
    That is why the world is so caught up in them!
    Did I miss your point, or did you just get mine? Gary

  50. tracey5tgbtg says:

    In Mart’s updated post it says, “To the extent that relationships are in view, is this a lovingly friendly way of resolving the issue?”

    I want to say, “Wouldn’t it be more loving and friendly, especially in a relationship, to resolve a dispute by allowing the other person to ‘have their way’ than to roll dice to solve the issue?”

    After all Jesus said to turn the other cheek and if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. (Matt 5:39)

    However, I can see how much I want to have control by saying I will choose, even if it is to choose to back down, rather than leaving the matter in God’s hands and letting go completely and trusting the outcome to Him.

  51. poohpity says:

    Is that you Steve in ODB for today? :-)

  52. SFDBWV says:

    Yes, pooh I am Mart’s friend he mentions in the ODB. I was and am humbled by his decision to use a part of my life to help others cope with theirs.

    Steve

  53. oneg2dblu says:

    Good Morning All…As I pray for the victims of the current wave of events today, I only ask that God’s Hand be there to reduce the suffering, to help heal the wounded, to feed the hungry, to comfort those who mourn, give peace to those who are trapped in fear, to provide all that is needed for His Purposes, and to manifest more abundantly His Mercy on the world around them, who now must give of themselves for others. May we all see His Hand at work in us, and Praise Him for the Grace and Blessings we have found in Him. Almighty God…In the name of your son Christ Jesus, show your Grace, Blessings, and Mercy on those victims who need YOU today.
    May Christ be the Center of all our thoughts, support, and prayers, for this very hurting part of our world. Amen! Gary

  54. royalpalm says:

    Hello, Davids,

    Just a quick comment on your posting regarding the casting of lots to replace Judas…why not read again the account in Acts 1?

    1)They did it to do what has been written in the Psalms 2)and the qualification was it has to be a witness who was with them all the time from Jesus’ baptism up to His resurrection.*

    Casting of lots was the practical solution, but note their prayer – they recognize that God knows which is the best choice and they committed the result to God’s hand.

    This is is great example for us.

    *very important that he really knew Jesus especially if he had to tell and convince others that Jesus was the fulfillment of all the prophecies in the OT, the Messiah, the Son of God, God, etc. – the person had to tell about God’s voice during Jesus baptism, His ascension to heaven, etc)

  55. poohpity says:

    As I was reading this morning it brought a smile to my face and I bet that made you feel wonderful. I said to myself, “Hey I know that guy”, lol. Have a good day.

  56. poohpity says:

    I think whether we cast lots or draw straws when our motives are in the right direction, seeking God, then the outcome will be blessed by Him and we can trust that the outcome is in His hands.

  57. bratimus says:

    To Gary

    the comment to the lottery sytems outside of gambling is like cast of lots, here is an example.

    When units of low income housing were built, there are usually more people then housing. Instead of the first come first serve, they did a lottery system. Everyone signs up and people are picked through a lottery. In the state i live in it was done this way. this is a form of casting lots.

    This reflects Joshua !8:6 a little

  58. bratimus says:

    I’m going to be leving thsi posting of topics i felt conflict where there should be none.

    God bless all

  59. pegramsdell says:

    Yeah, I thought it was about you Steve. Mart said it so beautifully too. Love you Steve.

  60. oneg2dblu says:

    bratimus… Oh, that lottery…Now I see what you meant by your use of lottery. That type of system would surely line up better than others, when there is so much need,and not enough supply.
    The one I spoke of, was about gambling, where winnings are never enough to satify one’s greed.
    Same word, different usage. Perhaps my worldly take,
    has overtaken me. Gary

  61. oneg2dblu says:

    bratimus…like all other U.S. citizens my age, I was going to be drafted into the military because they didn’t have a “lottery” of exemptions. When your number was up, you would serve your One Nation Under God, and your notice would direct your selection of service.
    But, my selection was directed by actions taken Outside the Draft, as I went and enlisted instead, giving my “Unopened Draft Notice” to my Naval Recruiter.
    I trust that God’s Hand was on that decission as well!
    I never knew where that draft would have led me, but the ship I was assinged to now, was sent to be prepared
    in every way possible, for outright battle! Its selected direction was Vietnam, right into the WAR ZONE!
    However, just six days before we were to depart, our orders were changed. I believe the Hand of God was directing that change also. Years later, I would find the prayer of my mother, giving her son’s life into the Hands of God, and praying that I would come home again.
    We instead were sent to the Mediterranean, to escort the largest conventional aircraft carrier we had, the USS AMERICA, into another potential “HOT SPOT” on our globe. As an Israeli war plane had just fired on one of our ships in the Red Sea, and that firing alone if not tempered properly, would have led us into another WAR ZONE. I beleive the Hand of God acted there as well!
    So, lotteries can take many different forms, and can get you both into, or out of things, beyond your control! My Mom believed her prayer would be heard,
    for she believed the Word of God. Mark 10:27 “With man this is impossible, but with God; all things are possible with God.” Gary

  62. royalpalm says:

    Hello, everybody,

    Regarding casting of lots in the Bible, here’s a few more:

    1) casting of lots to choose which goat is the scapegoat for the Passover (Lev. 16:8)

    2) Joshua dividing the land among the tribes (Josh 18)

    3) the tribes of Levi deciding who serves when and
    where( I Chron. 24,25,26)

    4) the family of Aaron deciding what is the order of their service (I Chron. 24)

    5) Nehemiah 10,11 – deciding who did what, when, etc as well as deciding who lives in Jerusalem and who lives outside.

    In the N.T. only 2 were mentioned – the casting of lots by the believers to choose the replacement of Judas and
    the casting of lots by Roman soldiers to decide who gets Jesus’ clothes.

    The most interesting account of casting lots is in the story of Jonah when, during the terrible storm, after the crew prayed to their various gods and did all they could, realized that someone must have offended his god – and drew lots to find out who is the offending person.(Jonah 1)

    In this situation, though these people were pagans and idolatrous, God pointed them to Jonah, the right person.

    (Note that they later prayed not to their gods but to Jonah’s God -Jonah 1:14-16)

    God is sovereign and He has absolute control over circumstances and outcomes, for His own loving purpose and for His glory – so we can be confident that when we put our trust and faith in Him we will not be disappointed, even if we feel “we should have chosen the other one.”

  63. davids says:

    Hello RoyalPalm,

    Yes, I thought I brought those points out in my post, but apparently they were not clear enough. Thanks.

  64. davids says:

    Gary,

    I think the word “sorry” is the one that is missing.

    David

  65. ljmnkscartda says:

    I would like to thank royalpalm for his post at 12:33pm especially, because it was simple and very easy to understand. His point was made very clearly speaking for myself. Rolling dice, flipping coins may have it places,but to me if I have to make a decision about something and the request has not been answered or not made clear to me I be still and wait on God with patience. It does not always happen like that and sometime I feel I need to make a decision by a certain time so I pray and make the decision myself(which maybe I shouldn’t) praying to God that I made the right decision. Of course they have not always been right and that is when I learn from the experience. It teaches me that I need to be more patient and wait because patience produces experience or strength of character as Romans 5:4 NLT says. It helps you know that the next time something similar comes that way in order to get different results you have to do something different. Put your trust in God always and always pray, pray, pray. God will not let us down. He will cause everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them. I thank everyone for their insight and comments, they have been very helpful to me. Praises to God.

  66. oneg2dblu says:

    david… I’m sorry to all who have found my reply wrongly motivated!I wish I had not offended anyone here by answering with such strong words.
    I will take another 40 Days off to reflect on this tresspass, one that has even brought you out, to cast a vote for a different reply, other than I one I have attempted. I did make my best effort, and I’m SORRY it was not enough. Gary

  67. davids says:

    Gary, I don’t want to be the one to cause someone to leave the discussion. You have made many usefull comments. In this case there was just a bit of mis-placed zeal that made a brother feel unwelcome, that’s all.

    Very Kindly, David

  68. bratimus says:

    I’ve been reading “thinking about” here and there since it start. started posting to see how it would go. My reason for leaving is my personal decision, I don’t want to bring conflict any where. I don’t want the group to have to cast lots between the two lol. So i will yield the field.

    God Bless all

  69. oneg2dblu says:

    bratimus…we all bring conflict into this world if we have Christ living inside of us, we are in constant conflict even within ourselves. For any Christ Follower, a Lot has been Cast for Our Eternity, and evil does not like it that way, so the battle rages on for us as long as we are in this world.
    Please do not leave because of any conflict you think you may or may not have generated, it is all part of “living out,” what we all must endure for Him!
    Conflict can be our greatest asset if it defines us further, corrects us in trespass, or grows us deeper in resolve to stay the course.
    Please stay on Board and help bring Balance to this ship of thoughts we all contribute to.
    We are one when we stand on our own, and we are a “Greater One when we Stand Together!” Stay convicted to the Way that has been given to us through this blog.
    Remain Yoked…Gary

  70. oneg2dblu says:

    Sorry… Please Remain Yoked! Gary

  71. oneg2dblu says:

    david… you have not caused any rift that cannot be taken in any other context than your concern for another.
    Thank you for your contribution! :)

  72. poohpity says:

    It is wise to not justify conflict within the brotherhood/sisterhood by saying every does it. It is however wise when we start a conflict whether perceived or real to find out what our role was in it and admit the fault and ask for forgiveness. Sometimes we can blame the conflict on being a Christian living in a non-Christian environment or we can take responsibility that it may be our own negative self seeking behavior that has caused the conflict and has nothing to do with persecution.

  73. poohpity says:

    Roll the dice and maybe God will reveal which it is.

  74. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh… 3-15 10:47 Could it also just be a misunderstanding? Because of the many terms and conditions one word can bring, or one thought may evoke, when you don’t really know,”The rest of the Story,” evil intent does not necessarilly have to be the driven factor.
    All things are not “negative self seeking behaviors” because a conflict arises, sometimes things are accidentally taken out of the context. “Context Rules”
    even where no self seeking behavior with negative leanings were intended.
    But, I’m not so well schooled as some on Human Behavior,
    I just live like I don’t know any better. So, I stick my nose right where it sometimes gets slapped.
    I’m so glad I believe in Repentance as an ongoing part of my relationship with the Master, as I attempt to Honor Him with my life.
    I always like to “leave room” for God leading us into an enviroment where we can grow, even through conflict.
    But that would be just my take on this situation, which may go on yet to grow me more. I trust He will never give up on testing and growing me, as I follow Him
    in all my imperfection. Jesus Knows Me, This I Love!
    Gary

  75. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh… thanks for your contribution, I’m sorry I did not say that first… :)

  76. Regina says:

    Good Morning All

    I hope all is well with you. I haven’t had time to share my thoughts with you for a couple of days because I’ve been a little busy. I just finished reading all of the comments on this blog topic, and I’m grateful to all who shared their thoughts and wisdom on this topic. :)

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