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Does Jesus Walk What Paul Writes?

Photo by: Lawrence OP

Claiming to be a follower of Christ, the Apostle Paul  wrote that without love, our words are like meaningless noise (1Cor 13:1-3).

He followed up saying that “Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged. It is never glad about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out” (1Cor 13:4-6 NLT).

After reading those words, I am aware that someone could be rightly asking of me, “So, how did it go this past week? Moving in the right direction? What about the slip ups? What was going on there?”

Paul seems to want his readers to weigh the way we handle our doctrinal, personal, and family issues against the standard of that kind of love.

But another question comes to mind. Are Paul’s words the only standard for understanding this kind of love? Or are we supposed to consider his words with another question like, “From what we are told about Jesus in the Gospels, how did our Lord show patience, kindness, a lack of jealousy and pride etc?”

For me, personally, the issue here is not whether Jesus walked what Paul wrote, but how.

So let’s try a test case. How does Jesus show patient and kind love when he is angrily turning over the tables of the moneychangers in the temple? (John 2:13-17; Matt 21:12-14). Or is that a moment when he was angry instead of loving?

Is there a time to love and a time to not love? Or is there a time to show love by patience and a time to show love without patience? Or are even the times that Christlike love seems to act without patience actually acts of patient, and kind love?

Can we really even reflect on our own growth in “how we are caring for others”  without thinking daily about how Jesus showed that he really cares even for those who consider him The Enemy?


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87 Responses to “Does Jesus Walk What Paul Writes?”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    Mart, There are a couple of Proverbs that come to mind; 13: 24 and 29: 15. Both show that there is necessity to correct your children and may I say others who need realignment into proper behavior.

    Jesus shows the nature of the Father as He goes about the Temple with mild force and shows God’s displeasure at the desecration of His Holy place.

    It is not stated that anyone was injured or hurt in the matter, only that they were run out of the Temple.

    As the Proverbs state, if you love someone then you are obligated to correct them rather than let them fall into a place of furthering their course of action toward their own self destruction.

    Sometimes it takes the rod to get their attention.

    Steve

  2. oneg2dblu says:

    Good morning… I know all the Attributes of Our Lord and God, Jesus the Christ, but that without His Grace, we would all perish. All our acts are but as filthy rags, compared to His Loving Kindness, His Patience, His Holiness. Our lives in totallity, are but a vapor, compared to His Greatness, His Eternity, which no man can fathom. Now, here is something else that no man can fathom… “From the recent scriptures I’ve read, comes a stark reality about this Loving God. Will He will not Fail to Punish all those who Reject Him? Will that not be a great multitude?
    Even perhaps half of the family we now know. For it is written… There were two in the field ,an one was taken up, there were two threshing and one was taken up! That’s at least half!
    Half, who will never be with Him, half of His Creation, He Will Reject. Out of the ten virgins, who were all pure and waiting upon Him… On how many, was the door forever shut? What a harsh reality about half of those we know, that I present here this morning.
    It is an Awesome, and Fearful thing, to have to Stand before an Almighty God ,that will Judge each of us accordingly. Consider this, we are that family that will be judged, and no one will Escape. If there is anything you can do today, that will show Him how you Love Him, that is what we had better be about! Now is the time to Love, as He loved, Walk, as He walked, and we all know we fail to measure up to that standard, but for His Grace, but for Our Faith, but for Our Love of Him, do we exist, do we stand, do we suffer today, and do we Pray, “Lord give us Our Daily Bread, Our Love in Christ, that we may “show it” to others today, and allow us, as we encounter even a tiny “Change of Heart” toward our greatest Enemy, as the Love of ourself, *Pride* must become less, and Love of Our Lord Jesus Christ, become more!” AMEN

  3. SFDBWV says:

    We who believe that Jesus of Nazareth is Lord believe that He not only demonstrated the very nature of God in His behavior, but also believe that He is in fact God.

    Believing that, I must turn to the pages of scripture to see what God Himself has done time and time again to get mankind into proper behavior.

    Of course it starts in genesis; after the fall God punishes Adam and Eve, after Cain killed Abel God punishes Cain, and after a while kills off all living creatures including every man woman and child except those in the Ark.

    Is anyone here able to stand in judgment and say God is not walking in love defined in Paul’s writing?

    When God sends Israel into the Promised Land and orders the death of His enemies, is anyone here above God and able to judge His actions?

    All over the OT God is shown as being stern and fierce in His judgments and insists that His orders be carried out, or punishment comes.

    On the other end of the story we find God in Revelation killing again 1/3 of all living creatures even the trees and grasses. Ultimately judging the unsaved and sending all whom He finds not written in the book of life into a lake of fire…forever.

    Is anyone here able to say that God is in violation of the conditions of Paul’s writing in Corinthians 13?

    Because God is God and we are not, we are expected to follow whatever instruction God give for us to follow, that includes the instruction of loving each other, forgiving each other and yes sometimes disciplining those who violate conditions of living with others.

    Steve

  4. jnfarina says:

    Why not take this a step further. Christ is God incarnate, correct? I have always found it difficult to reconcile some of the actions The Lord has demonstrated in the Old Tetament that would appear anything but patient and loving.

    I think of the book of Joshua, for example. Many times during this narrative Joshua is commanded by God to kill every man, woman, child and even livestock during the time he was leading the Isrealite tribes into Canaan during the conquest of the promised land.

    I understand that God was using His people as the instument of his judgement, but I still have trouble when you contrast the God of Old Testament times with jesus Christ, who’s most judgemental act on any living thing was directed at a fig tree.

    The Lord’s commands during much of Old Testament times would also seem to make it easier for some to justify wiping out a pagan nation for their beliefs, rather than taking time to love and convert them to worshiping the true God of the Bible.

  5. poohpity says:

    Mart you asked; “So let’s try a test case. How does Jesus show patient and kind love when he is angrily turning over the tables of the moneychangers in the temple? (John 2:13-17; Matt 21:12-14). Or is that a moment when he was angry instead of loving?”

    I just read all four gospel accounts and in at least my translation I do not read that he was angry. I do however read that he was full of passion and zeal about the temple being turned into a den of thieves. I think there is a difference between uncontrolled anger and righteous indignation. It maybe just semantics but uncontrolled anger, I think has to do with self and injury to self while what Jesus displayed was passion for the place where people were to come and worship God. He was showing love and passion for His Father and calling others to really look at what they were doing and saying was not congruent with their so called beliefs.

  6. poohpity says:

    I know when I get angry it pretty much takes over for a while until I have time to chill out but in the Matthew 21:14 it says then the blind and lame came to Him to healed. So if it was anger and not passion and love I do not know if one could have switched over to that mode so quickly. Just a thought.

  7. SFDBWV says:

    Just had one of those tangent thoughts; as God created everything through the Son, it is also through that same Son which He has open the seals and pours out judgment upon the earth in Revelation.

    Jesus the same then the same now and the same forever.

    It is Jesus who always does the will of the Father, in all matters.

    Steve

  8. oneg2dblu says:

    Anger Management Classes @ noon tomorrow. LOL
    For today… it is all about Love. God’s Love is not our type of love, for we are not capable of controling even ourselves, let alone helping anyone else control their’s. It is only through the Helper, the Holy Spirit, that we have been given a chance to change in ourselves, that which we cannot change ourselves. Our only chance is to share with others what God has done for us, and trust they will not even take out the “short list” of our failures, why we sometimes cannot be effective even in our own family. None are good enough is what we must show them,and that only “forgiven people” will ever find any hope of being aqccepted into Heaven, God’s Eternal Destiny, for those who He alone forgives!
    Nothing teaches better than actions, so if we want to show them Christ, then we must act in love according to that authority God has given us. If a parent, than a parent’s love, if a friend, than a friend’s love, and if any Enemy, God’s Love is the only love we can show them. If it comes from us, who not not measure up,
    it will fail. But, if it comes through the Spirit given us, living in us, then it is Valid, Effective, Worthy,
    and Successful in turning even an Enemy into someone we can show His Love to. Forgiving our enemies is a God thing and the first step into also loving them.
    Paul gave “feet” to the Word of God, and Christ Who is the Word, gave “feet” to Paul!

  9. bratimus says:

    The first commandment is God comes first and to love God with all your heart and mind.

    So Jesus throwing out the venders and turning over all the money tables is Jesus expressing His Love for the father in His Fathers house. Love also defends

    Paul wrote Love is never glad at injustice

  10. oneg2dblu says:

    We being only human, use only human emotions. We being God’s Chosen, still have human emotions, but also a Divine Imparted Expression which can overpower even our own self-motivated desire, if we choose to Walk with Him according to His Will, we can Love even those who Hate us! Showing the world such a thing, shows them, Who Christ in us, the Overcomer, really is!
    How come Christ could judge others, but when we do, we are condemned. “Judge Not…less you be Judged by the same standard.” Is not that exactly where we all should stand, able to judge through the Word of God, which is *THE STANDARD* of what is righteous, and what is not. His Word Judges for us! If we ignore that, are we not condemning ourselves as well?

  11. tracey5tgbtg says:

    In Matt 21:14, immediately after Jesus had cleared the temple, it says, “The blind and the lame came to Him at the temple, and He healed them.” Perhaps before the temple clearing those people couldn’t get in because they couldn’t afford it. Maybe that is why Jesus was so angry; because the people who needed Him most were being blocked access to the temple because they couldn’t “pay for their sins” by buying sacrificial animals.

    Another question was – is there ever a time to show love without patience? This makes me think of the verse “Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: ‘It is mine to avenge; I will repay,’ says the Lord.” Romans 12:19

    I have seen this bumper sticker, “There is a God, and you’re not Him.” Jesus is God. Paul’s messages are not written to God on how to treat His people. God’s ways are far above our ways and God already knows exactly what we need.

    Paul’s messages are to tell people of the infinite grace and love of God and how to treat each other and how to trust God and have faith in Him and the hope we have in Him, etc.

    I believe that God, Jesus, is far more capable of righteous wrath than we can ever hope to be.

    So can I ever say “I was justified in the harshness and anger I displayed in reaction to someone else’s sin?” For me personally, the answer is no. We are called to speak the truth in love and even more, to turn the other cheek and entrust ourselves to Him who judges justly.

  12. bratimus says:

    Thing about Judging others is

    We judge other on traights we recognize,we judge others by things that we ourselves are guilty of. It isn’t that we our righteous, it is we are usually guilty of the same offence at one time or another. That why it is said “Judge not…less you be judged by the same standard. Those words are a warning that you are probably guilty of the same offence at one time and that you are recognizing it in another. Like casting the first stone, you who are sinless cast the first stone.

  13. SFDBWV says:

    Thinking about loving ones enemies and how the face of the enemy changes. During this disaster in Japan I had seen a news story about a Japanese submarine crew not knowing of the tsunami that had hit their homeland until after they had docked at “Pearl Harbor” and was told.

    I have to tell you I appreciated the irony of that story.

    Steve

  14. poohpity says:

    tracey5tgbtg, never thought of the scenario in that way before, interesting.

  15. saled says:

    One of the best examples of Jesus loving his enemies is in Luke 22 when he heals the ear of the high priest’s servant after Peter had cut it off with the sword. I have no doubt that Jesus always acted out of love. I think tracey’s idea about the people not being able to get into the temple is totally possible.

    But there are times when it appears Jesus is impatient with people. For example, Matthew 17:17 where he is apparently speaking to the multitudes: “O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I suffer you? . . .” It sounds like he is saying, ” How long do I have to put up with you.” Maybe this is an example of (using tracey’s words) showing love without patience.

  16. poohpity says:

    To me the best example of Jesus loving his enemies is that He went to the Cross for everyone in the whole world whether they will ever believe that He did it for them or not. Now that is an extreme example of love, patience, compassion, gentleness, kindness, and forgiveness. Thank you so much Jesus for that extreme display of giving.

  17. bubbles says:

    And, pooh, right along with your thoughts, I am so thankful for God’s mercy AND patience. I fail and disappoint Him in many ways. His mercy that endures forever is beyond my understanding.

  18. hera says:

    I think loving, caring or judging – all involves dealing with others, and to me, the tricky or difficulty in dealing with others is about value-system. even within the same family, brought up by the same parents, could hold different value-systems, or even faith. of course, for obvious things it might not be a problem, but for the not so obvious, even if we look into the Bible, one can quote different verses to support their/our own beliefs. and sometimes, in the name of love, one can say: I “correct” you because I love you, while the second party would perhaps say: but I haven’t done anything wrong according to my own value-systems, and you are judging… be it delivered in a mild, compassionate way or otherwise.. just like how far are things considered “sin” when it involves subtle things..?

  19. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Garry,
    Your comment oneg2dblu says:
    April 2, 2011 at 8:49 am

    About 50% of those being lost etc.
    If you look closely at the stories Jesus told you will notice He was taliking about the marraige feast. The virgins were waiting for the bridgroom and 5 were ready and five were not. So the five who were ready went to the wedding but the others were left behind.
    It is probably the strongest and clearest words Jesus used to explain the rapture. Those left behind will have missed out on the marraige feast but will, by means of the tribulation troubles be pursuaded to turn to God in their time of need.
    In a way it is showing God’s anger but also His love in that He takes away those who already love him to save them from all that is to come but leaves those who are not sure so that they may see the glory of His power and turn to Him again.

    Bob

  20. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Steve, You said:

    “Thinking about loving ones enemies and how the face of the enemy changes. During this disaster in Japan I had seen a news story about a Japanese submarine crew not knowing of the tsunami that had hit their homeland until after they had docked at “Pearl Harbor” and was told.

    I have to tell you I appreciated the irony of that story.”

    I understand fully the catalyst that Pearl Harbour was to the USA and the irony of a Japanese submarine seeking shelter there etc.

    But we in Britain were suffering and at our wits end at that time and Pearl Harbour was a blessing in disguise as it ment the USA entered the war for real.
    Together our two nations, as the only super powers in the world at that time, brought a lasting peace to both Europe and the far east.
    We lost everything we had because that war bankrupted us, but we both as nations have learnt so much about who our real enemies are and who are our friends.
    The irony is that those old enemies are now our closest allies.

    Bob

  21. Mart De Haan says:

    In Mark’s description he tells how, after Jesus triumphal entry into Jerusalem, he went into the temple, looked around, and then left for an overnight in Bethany, before coming back and clearing the moneychangers out of the temple (Mark 11:11-17).

    The time period shows reflection, and deliberate action. As some of you have observed, this is not an out of control, dangerous anger. It is protective zeal and indignation against activities and commotion that was contrary to the spirit of “his Father’s house.”

    It’s also generally recognized that the commotion of the moneychangers was happening in the “court of the gentiles” and would undoubtedly have put a “bad face” on temple worship for “outsiders” who came there to pray to the One true God.

    I think we have every reason to believe that whatever Jesus did was done out of love for others. Even his woes against the religious leaders need to be seen as “laments” and “zeal” against that which was destroying them and others.

    So, poohpity, your comment about whether this was really anger rather than zeal or indignation etc. is an important question. But as, you are reflecting, the issue is probably not whether it is anger, but of the motive for his emotion and how he expressed it.

    This was not an out of control angry man lashing out at others in a hurtful way, but rather an expression of emotion (anger or zeal) against that which was detracting from love for God and others.

  22. BruceC says:

    When I read some of the posts about our Lord’s dealing with the money changers it brought to mind just how far the Temple officials who “ran the show” had sank. No doubt they were in cahoots with the changers. Nice arrangement. Jesus was angry because it defiled HIS house.

    I thought about some of the posts of how God ordered Israel to wipe out entire peoples and it reminded me of a Bible study by Chuck Missler about these people had become genetically corrupted by fallen angels as part of the enemies plan to disrupt and destroy the line of the Messiah. Interesting study and one that has quite a few people agreeing. What some may have viewed as harsh could be looked at as kind compared to allowing genetic corruption to continue.

    BruceC
    Soli Deo Gloria!

  23. SFDBWV says:

    Look up anger in the Concordance and see just how many times the Lord got angry and why and usually what followed.

    Steve

  24. bubbles says:

    My understanding could be wrong, but in Psalm 18 starting in verse 6 and the following verses after–doesn’t that describe the anger of Almighty God here?

  25. peacedove says:

    Thank you Mart for making my most treasured Bible passage the focus for today.When I read these verses,I stop at each word and think of it in terms of a dictionary definition.What does “boastful” really mean…what are the negative spin offs from it….how does it effect others in a rippling effect.
    How can I as a Christian eliminate this from my life.
    These precious words are more important today than at any time in history.
    You also touched what Jesus did to the money-changers.Here are my feelings and views on what he did.
    First of all,I have always felt there is a part of Jesus that is a protester.Not one who throws a molotove cocktail…but one who would march with the people against a war.(He did travel around on foot with a large group of people in tow)This may sound crazy,but I believe he turned those tables from a foundation of love.He did go out of line a little bit,but that happens in a protest when a few signs get trampled on…no one gets hurt.Another way to look at it is when a father disaplines his son….giving a kid a few swats on the butt used to be okay….now not so much so.
    Thank you so much for this opportunity to share with you all.

  26. poohpity says:

    James 1:20;
    because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires.

    In the OT I think are are about 248 mentions of anger most of God’s anger while in the NT in the gospels there are 2 or 3 then in the rest 9 about the destruction of human anger. God was angry a lot in the OT but again it was righteous anger from disobedience of what was best for the people but then Jesus/God came to take that anger upon Himself for our disobedience.

    Mart, unlike us who take a time out after we become angry it would seem the Lord pulled back before He went to the temple knowing what he would find there from what that text states. I would just assume that zeal and passion was so closely associated to how the religious leaders were leading those who were seeking God astray in so many ways. Jesus used so much self control in how He addressed the issues knowing from the OT what He could have done instead. Wow!!

  27. peacedove says:

    Hi There SFDBWV…Interesting addition to the bit you told us about with the Japanese sub.On a documentary I saw,during the actual attack in 1941,two Japanese mini-subs washed up on the Hawaiian island shores.

  28. poohpity says:

    Your question Mart “Does Jesus Walk What Paul Writes?” I have to say yes to the yes and then some with an Amen on top of an Amen.

  29. poohpity says:

    Hey Mart what on earth are you doing up at 3 in the morning? Unless you are out of the country again. Get some sleep buddy. :-)

  30. SFDBWV says:

    Yes Peacedove I thought about how only 70 years ago the Japanese were our hated enemy and the idea that the same people who killed so many Americans there in Perl Harbor are now one of our best allies and are in fact welcome to port there in that same spot that started the war.

    It brings also to mind the genius of Gen Macarthur in allowing the Japanese to keep their Emperor in place and the generosity and compassion of America to come to the aid of reconstruction and aid of these noble people.

    It should make us look to today’s enemies and see what it takes to make them our friends instead of our enemies. Of course we deal with very different people and very different issues today.

    Thinking also about the statue of mankind in the dream of Nebuchadnezzar; we continue to be less as a people as we spiral downward toward the end of the age.

    We Christians who live now are given a special responsibility to hold tight to our faith while being examples in a world filled with distractions and deceptions.

    Too many people including some Christians still like the looks of the forbidden fruit and are at risk of believing the lies that they want to believe so as to continue eating from the tree.

    Steve

  31. SFDBWV says:

    The incorrect idea that being Christian means that we let others run over us, take advantage of us, do whatever they please to us all the while expecting us to turn the other cheek and not protect ourselves or seek retribution, is just ludicrous.

    While we should all live as 1 Corinthians 13 directs for us to, we also are given the whole story from Genesis to Revelation to guide us in our wise use of biblical knowledge.

    Only Jesus of Nazareth was given the task of dying for the sins of the world, not we for whom He died.

    I see nothing in this verse of scripture that says I should not protect myself and family from the evil of others. Nor do I see any reason not to be upset with the violation of our peace from others as being in contrast to the principals of this scripture.

    In short, Jesus, the author of scripture, certainly exemplifies the principals of this scripture and we His followers are equally empowered to clean house when it is necessary.

    Steve

  32. poohpity says:

    Steve you said, “The incorrect idea that being Christian means that we let others run over us, take advantage of us, do whatever they please to us all the while expecting us to turn the other cheek and not protect ourselves or seek retribution, is just ludicrous.” Isn’t that exactly what Jesus did throughout the time spent on this earth? He did not return evil for evil, He did not protect Himself against those who arrested and betrayed Him, He did not seek retribution but rather gave Himself as a sacrifice. I know as human beings it is almost impossible to do that but don’t we have God’s spirit and promises to look out for us?

  33. bratimus says:

    Mart’s question is Does Jesus walk what Paul writes?

    The answer is

    Paul writes of the walk of Jesus

    Paul writes through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Through the Holy spirit Paul writes of the walk of Jesus, and how we can walk with Jesus. Paul’s writings answers Mart’s question.

  34. foreverblessed says:

    SOOO right Pooh!
    Oswald Chambers writes a lot about it too:
    that we be broken bread and poured out wine,
    Just like Jesus,
    But we resist that!
    When evil things happens to us by other people: we stay patient and kind, And we are not rude, and not self-seeking, not easily angered, neither do we keep a record of wrongs.
    That is what Jesus did when led to the crucifiction.
    Actually I think that Jesus did even more then what Paul writes here. Paul does not say that we lay down our lives here. Yet that is what Jesus did.

  35. foreverblessed says:

    OK, the point here is that Jesus cleared the temple, He did it in a calm way, He gave a lesson:
    v17 And as He taught them: my house will be called a house prayer for all nations
    but you have made it a den of rpbbers.
    Buying and selling.

    I wonder, what Jesus would do if He would walk around our christian conferences, seeing all the things we can buy, christian books christian music.
    Would He calmly turn over the tables and instruct us:
    freely you have received, freely give?

  36. poohpity says:

    I can only talk for myself foreverblessed but I find no fault with those that sell Christian books or music in fact I am very happy for them. Just as we buy secular books and music I would actually rather put my dollars forth for my brothers/sisters in Christ to share the Word.

    When people went in to the temple there was a time that foreigners could not carry their sacrifices over the long journey so they were sold in the temple area. When Jesus came those sellers were asking prices that were way beyond a respectful price but were asking for a profit margin that denied the average person the ability to afford. They had become very greed driven and the Lord knew their hearts.

    Everything has a price Jesus chose to pay ours for us with His free gift of salvation nothing we can do to earn it or keep. We can show our thankfulness by our actions, behaviors and attitudes. When we give as Cain did something that was not the best from his crops like the leftovers then that was not accepted, God again new his heart and new that it was not his finest gift like the heart of Abel who brought the best from his flocks.

    We might be able to fool people but we will never be able to fool God and that is what counts.
    Abel

  37. poohpity says:

    I have no idea how that Abel at the end showed up there, that was a typo only seen after the submit button. Please delete.

  38. tracey5tgbtg says:

    Steve – I respect much of what you say and I take to heart a lot of your advice. Although, you didn’t mention my name, I assume it was my comment that didn’t sit well with you because I mentioned turning the other cheek.

    You are right in what you say. I was trying to express my own “inclinations.” I probably came across as sounding like I never get angry, which is far from the truth. I lose my temper quite a bit. I was trying to say that I have never felt justified in the anger I have shown. I usually find myself wishing I could take back what I said.

    I’m sure there are many situations when I should stand up for righteousness and I’m too afraid to do so, and I think that is what you mean.

    I enjoy reading everyone’s thoughts and opinions and that’s all I can post – just my thoughts and opinions. I don’t mind being corrected, how else can I learn anything?

    Believe me when I say God is still working on me and there is a lot that needs to be done.

  39. poohpity says:

    tracey5tgbtg, I am right there with you in anger and wishing I hadn’t said a lot of the things I have said but if we were all to take such a good inventory in our own lives it would keep our eyes more focused on our similarities which is not being perfect but in need of Jesus in our lives. Pride keeps us looking how we compare to others and there is always going to be some better and some worse that is why our eyes need to be on Jesus the only perfect ONE.

  40. poohpity says:

    Always be yourself because the people that matter don’t mind . . . .. and the ones that mind don’t matter. :-)

  41. royalpalm says:

    Hello, everyone,

    I appreciate everyone’s posts and comments and I thank you all for the teaching and encouragement…

    Anyway, I read again the account about Jesus and the money changers and merchants at the temple –

    Did anybody notice that Jesus cleansed the temple twice?

    John 2:13-22 – was at the Passover after the wedding in Cana at the beginning of His ministry

    Mark 11:15-17 was at the Passover after His triumphal entry towards the end of His ministry just before He died.

    Everything Jesus did was done to bring glory to His Father and the desecration of God’s temple by Satan through his slaves (money changers, etc) would be like Satan thumbing his nose against God at His holy place – a display of his pride and arrogance.

    Jesus’s anger was well justified and pleased His Father.

    Everything Jesus did was done in love – He sees us as we are – powerless victims of Satan that needed to be released so we can worship the true God. That which we can see is deceptive and lasts only for a moment – but what is unseen is eternal. God operates in both the visible and invisible realms and He is Sovereign in both so we can just leave it in His hands.

    Hi, tracey5bgtbg,

    I cry more now that I know the Lord -for my own sins, and for the sins of others because God is His kindness through the Holy spirit makes me more aware of my/others sins. I pray for myself more and intercede for others more often I am more aware of my weakness and this makes me more dependent on Him. The knowledge and assurance from His word that nothing I can do would add or subtract the righteousness that He has given me by virtue of my faith in Jesus makes me love and worship Him even more and strengthens my desire to honor Him in everything I do as I go out as His ambassador in the world each day.

    Jesus taught the Beatitudes in Matthew 5 to encourage us.

    To you and everyone :

    May the Lord bless you and keep you and let His face shine upon you and be gracious to you and give you peace (Numbers 6:24-26)

  42. plumbape says:

    Steve said “The incorrect idea that being Christian means that we let others run over us, take advantage of us, do whatever they please to us all the while expecting us to turn the other cheek and not protect ourselves or seek retribution, is just ludicrous”.

    Steve I hope by now it is safe to say you know I respect what you say and I love you as a brother in Christ. I must not be understanding what you mean when you post the above comment…? With all due respect, to what extent do we go to protect ourselves? Should we just use are hands or a weapon or a gun is okay if the other person has a gun and it is justified to do so? I’m not allowed to own a gun (ex-convict) but my wife can but I got rid of them when our three apes were little. I live in the near north east side of Indy which is close to an area known as Dodge City. Duplex I live in has black dude next door my age who is ex-con and now sells crack, sons sell crack, he has stole a borrowed ladder from me on fathers day, which I found a pawn shop they tried to sell it and confronted him and his brother (big guys) about it and finally got paid back after I paid for it. I found out that my wife was going over there while I laid in bed reading the bible and after they turned her on to crack she burnt up $400. plus owes two young jitter bug dealers money which I don’t have. I confronted him again but with love and I have to go over there to fix all the stuff they tear up and owner has to pay for it cause he gets section 8 housing, as well as disability and he has a cash job and sells drugs. There was a time when I would have shown these folks what a modern day dodge city looks like. My wife didn’t want me to go over there alone and I told her that Christ is with me. I’ve been without a vehicle since Jan. and the wife lost her job late last year while he has a black caddy, no less. We are waiting on income tax to buy a car or van but the irs decided to review our refund so we still are waiting and I trust the Lord has a good reason for it and a reason I’m living here. It’s all good, praise the Lord.

    I don’t think I understand what you mean about turn the other cheek being a incorrect idea. Should we take up the sword and form a Christian Marine company and take the battle to the enemy or trust in Christ and let the enemy of this world do what he does best…? He can only kill the body :^) and that is the Good News, Amen !!!

    Michael

  43. plumbape says:

    I’m not sure if this is allowed but anyone that would rather respond to me privately can at mlholt4 and that goes with yahoo and of course the com with the dot. I love the learning I have received here and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Thank you for letting me be a part of it.
    The Ape in Indy
    Michael

  44. foreverblessed says:

    Thanks Michael, for your story, had to laugh at the last few lines! I pray that you stay in the love of CHrist, with all this crime and violance around you! Isaiah 60:1-2 for you and us all in this dark world!

    This is the advice Jesus gave to the two listeners in: God at eventide

    If you are fighting with the weapons of the world — envy, resentment, anger — you cannot use those of My Kingdom — Prayer, Love, Peace — which would give you a God-given conquering strength.

    I agree with Pooh that the anger of God in the OT is something to be treated through the eyes of the NT, through the cross of Christ.

    I looked up “anger” in the Gospel, and it mentions only once that Jesus was angry,
    Mark 3

    4 Then Jesus asked them, “Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they remained silent.

    5 He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored.

  45. foreverblessed says:

    This might be out of topic: About modern day church, I still am curious what Jesus thinks about it. When we want to use christian songs in our church we have to pay the copyright.
    FOr every service we pay a copyright instution in our country and then it is legal to sing the songs. It is like reading the bible in church: The pastor first has to pay copyright, and then he can read out loud a verse of the bible. We have become part of the money system of this world, instead of having trust in God to take care of our daily living. If people want to pay you that is OK, but if you ask for it, that is another matter.

    This is some of my thoughts, things that worries me, and I lay my worries at Jesus’ feet.

    I think RBC is so blessed, they are different in this matter.

  46. SFDBWV says:

    Tracey, my comments were directed to no one nor were they in reaction to anyones comments, I am sorry you thought they were.

    Michael, seek help for your wife and for your situation, I can from this distance only offer prayers for you. If you were here with me you would not have to live in fear.

    Steve

  47. foreverblessed says:

    Royalpalm, no, I never noticed that, not even after reading the Gospels year after year, it never fell down in my mind that Jesus cleared the temple twice! (O dear, how many other things God is trying to say, and I do not get it? God open my eyes and my ears)
    Imagine how important it was to Jesus. That His Temple should not be a den of robbers. But in John 2:13-17 the reason Jesus gives is not that it is a den of robbers, but that it is a market place, a place where people earn a living.

    We are part of the Kingdom of heaven,
    -1 and we fight with the weapons of heaven,
    -2 and we rely on the wealth of heaven, not on money.
    Do we really?

    I was quoting from March eventide March 23, and today I realised it mentions the same 2 things.
    the weapons that are different, and the money:
    “It is the endeavor to call both God and mammon to your aid that makes for lack of success. The world looks on in scornful pity, and My followers themselves doubt and wonder. So often they do not see their own error, but attribute to suffering for My Sake that which may not be according to My Will”

  48. tracey5tgbtg says:

    Foreverblessed – We have copyright laws here, but not to the extent we have to pay everytime someone reads the Bible. Of course, a new Bible can cost a lot of money. I think that in regards to copyright laws we have to remember that Jesus said “render unto Caeser what is Caesar’s.”
    Also, what would Jesus say about modern day churches? I don’t know. I think what He said to the churches in Rev 2-3 still applies to churches today.

    Plumape – my heart goes out to you and your family. You are in my prayers.

    Poohpity – thanks for your comments; Jesus is the only perfect One.

  49. oneg2dblu says:

    Greetings All… there is “so much here” to comment on, it is even hard to start.
    Pooh…There is none perfect… this is very true, but, “Always be Yourself????” I am sorry, I cannot rise to the “prideful occaision,” of always being myself. Those that matter don’t mind??? That is true also… for,every drug addict doesn’t mind if you STAY ADDICTED, every drunkard doesn’t mind if you come to the bar every night and join in. But to ME…. the One Who “Really” Matters, Jesus Christ, has given us the Holy Spirit, so we can see “our fallen condition,” and darkened world around us. He the Holy Spirit, has opened OUR EYES to the depravity that wrong thoughts and words can bring into the House of God, the can also corrupt the minds of those easily swayed. I must strongly disagree with, “Be Yourself,” as I do also strongly believe, we are called to Rise Above, our corrupted self pride, AND CHANGE to becoming more Christ-like every day. Sorry Pooh. if I stepped on your parade here, but that “”type of talk,” I find deceptively destructive,
    and perhaps only belongs to those who feel they can,
    Do No Wrong, AND NEVER FALL AWAY! But I do not believe that that is Healthy Biblical Teaching, Doctrine, for it is also, casual common speech as used by PAGANS would have No Problem beleiving such thoughts!
    It does say in the Word, that some would remain unchanged to their own destruction, but I don”t have that verse right now. Let the Dead bury the Dead, but those Who are Alive in Christ?… they had better be about changing for the better!
    Just some of my thoughts, for whatever they are worth! Not meant to setup any rebellious retort, but only to express, Where my Conscience wants to take me to guard myself! It is now clear, because I have not turned the cheek on this issue!
    royalpalm… you bring out exactly my point, that the
    Holy Spirit protects us from both the seen and the unseen, but also “opens our eyes,” to become more sightful!Praise God!

  50. peacedove says:

    Good Morning SFDBWV. After reading about all the wars that took place in the Old Testament,and the brutality of entire cities being totally wiped out,it should be okay to talk about history.
    General MaCarthur had no choice but keep the symbolic leader in power.He had to eliminate any chance of an uprising and also the Russian army had just captured all of China,the top of Korea and some of Japans home islands.
    Not only was the cold war starting in the west..it was starting in the east.
    America had fought a long,hard war alone.The general was not going to take any chances in victory.

  51. oneg2dblu says:

    Michael… I am praying for your situation to rise above its current troubling state. We only see what is before us in this world we live in. But our faith, cannot be seen, only tested. Your faith in this situation is being tested and proved. The only comfort I can bring to the table today is this, WE will Stand with you, pray for you, and put our faith with yours. This too will pass, and God has a purpose for you to be exactally wher you are right now! In this world there will always be trials, tribulation, and testing of our faith. Let His Peace which is beyond all understanding come upon you and remsain in you, until you are called into His Eternal Peace. Be Strong Brother, Be Confident, and be in Our Saviour’s Word, Always Believing! Gary

  52. poohpity says:

    Ape, I know you could have reacted with the old you which may have sent you back where you were before but you used the born again person and the weapons of your faith. I know how that feels in my neighborhood too. Even though when I was out in the streets those around me gave me the name of Bear because of my hand to hand combat skills, lol. That included no gender specific fighting it did not matter to me how big they were I knew the bigger the harder they fell but never fought anyone smaller.

    Two weeks ago a neighbor who walked through my yard when my dog was out got frightened so when she drove up when I was out proceeded to start cussing about my dog and I could have fueled the fire but instead kept my mouth closed which if you could have read my mind it would have made your toenails curl. Later that night because I had remained quite the little 12 yo nephew came by and asked me to pray for his mom because she was going to get an abortion and he was very concerned about her. Had I fed into her anger then I would have not been able to minister to that young man.

    Gary thanks for your opinion.

  53. poohpity says:

    Jesus although the power he had was unmeasurable chose to walked away several times to verbal assault and rock slinging and told us if we have even anger in hearts toward someone it is just the same as committing murder. I always understood that the strong silent types are the one’s to fear because it takes more self control to hold back then it does to react to different situations.

  54. foreverblessed says:

    onego2dblu,
    God also wants us when we approach Him to be ourselves, He does not want us to look better then we are. That is the only way He can even start to work on us.

    The topic of anger is a good one, God wants us to know what anger we still have hiding in ourselves.

    So He can cleanse us from it.
    Psalm 139:23 Search me, God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts.
    When God is searching you, you have to be totally yourself. When approaching GOd: Come as you are, today, there is no other starting point! But the honoust point to start working.

  55. poohpity says:

    If I can not be myself then who should I be?

  56. bratimus says:

    What we talking or thinking about now,

    Not all anger is a sin, the sin can come on how you act upon your anger.

    If anger is so bad, then why would my mom be so angry from time to tome when i was younger.

    So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenace fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? and if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over It.” Genesis 4:6-7

    I wonder how well it would have went over if i would have quote that to my mom when she was angry with me when i was younger.

  57. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    peacedove, you said

    “Not only was the cold war starting in the west..it was starting in the east.
    America had fought a long,hard war alone.The general was not going to take any chances in victory.”

    I hasten to say that America did not fight a long hard war alone.
    We were fighting the japanese in Singapour, Thialand, Burma and many other places along with our Indian and Australian/New Zealand partners as well as fighting a war in Europe and North Africa with all our comonwealth allies including Canada, long before Pearl Harbour and the USA’s entry into world war two.
    I don’t think you were alone do you?

    Bob

  58. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Countless Millions of Russians also died in that conflict!

  59. bubbles says:

    @ Michael: Know that I’ll be praying for you and your wife and your situation.

  60. oneg2dblu says:

    Pooh… “If I can’t be myself then who should I be???”
    What a great and self revealing thought… almost unanswerable, but in one word… *”HIS”* That is who we should be!!
    Are we not to die to self daily? Must we also surrender daily our will, to do His?
    If you had said, “Be yourself IN CHRIST,” I would applaud every syllable!
    foreverblessed…very true, “God wants us to be ourselves when we approach Him, He does not want us to look better than we are.” We could not look any better to God, than to come before Him in His Image. So, Come as you are… could not be any more truthful a word. But, please don’t tell me, that you refuse to ever change, who you are for Him, and that you are the same as when you first came to the Grace given knowledge you now possess!” We all change, because being “Born Again’ is all about our changing, from living to self,like all unbelievers, to now living for Him!

  61. bratimus says:

    I say forget self in everythning myself, yourself, herself, hisself etc.

    Be “who” Christ wants you to be through Him, then we can all be whos.

  62. oneg2dblu says:

    foreverblessed…I believe Paul also wrote Galations 2:20, which speaks of this dying to self. I also know we do not achieve Salvation through our works, and there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus. But, being yourself sounds sooo lonely to me. I know that we “must do” the work that God has called us to, and that work we also, cannot do ourselves!!!
    Starting from our very first step…”Follow Me” to the Great Commission, of “Spreading the Gospel” to all the nations! Matt 28:19
    “Therfore, go and make disciples of all the nations,
    baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.”
    I stand to be corrected, by chapter and verse, if it is as you say, then, there is no need to change, or do, anything! I know where your heart is, and for that I applaud your contributions!
    Once Saved Always Saved, which I know you embrace,is not helpful to me personally, because to me, it reeks of “even a form” of self-only-rightiousness, that could perpetuate a stagnnat, lukewarm, non-fearing, Christian! To me it paralizes the work ethict, that “Follow me,” should generate! Just believe and be saved alone, is not the Whole Gospel Truth, but very, very dangerous and lacking!
    Our calling, should be a calling Out of Self!
    I never want to go back to the self-serving me, I used to be! “My Salvation” demands a different view. It contains, an IOU Jesus, for all you have suffered and done for me, myself, and I, just the way we were!!!
    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
    The very word *were*, to me means past tense, becuase “Something must CHANGE,” and that Something is US!!! Once Saved, Always Following, works for me!!
    Written in His Love…Gary

  63. plumbape says:

    Thanks everyone and I pray in return for myself, my wife and all you wonderful people as well.

    Steve I really am not that sharp some times; when Jesus said to turn the other cheek, that is ludicrous for us today..? If someone attacks me and I defend myself by doing exactly what they are doing and I’m “legally” in the right that is okay? When the anti christ shows up dragging Christians from there homes to execute or receive the mark of the beast, should we defend ourself?

    confused

  64. bratimus says:

    Gray’s statement “once saved always saved”

    what about the the parable of the sower and the seed stony place Matthew 13:20-21

    “But he who recieved the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately recieves it with joy: yet has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles”

  65. Regina says:

    Good Evening All

    Been very busy of late and haven’t had time to visit my favorite blog family! :( Just dropped in to say hello, and I hope all is well with you all. Will chat with you soon.

    Very hard rain and hail in Texas this morning, and sunny skies this afternoon/evening (65 degrees/high).

  66. plumbape says:

    I’m sorry Mart and friends for getting off topic and not following guidelines… please forgive me

    Michael

  67. poohpity says:

    Mart asked, ““From what we are told about Jesus in the Gospels, how did our Lord show patience, kindness, a lack of jealousy and pride etc?”

    I think He showed those qualities by not arguing to prove Himself right, thinking of others before Himself, never giving up on the apostles when they did not understand, continuing His journey to the Cross even when He was deserted by those closest to Him.

  68. foreverblessed says:

    With a magnifying glass had a look at the photo, Jesus clearing the temple, I think the artist making this leaded glass picture had a good idea of how Jesus did it. Jesus has a calm expression on His face.

    I still have to learn a lot, to stay calm and peacefull when having to correct others (correct: having to tell them it is different then what they expected)

    Plumbape, I pray for you, take your confusion to Jesus, He will give you an answer. The stories of the martyrs in the first few centuries are also very inspiring. THey were dragged out of their homes, and they did not defend themselves. They knew it was an honor to be treated the same way as Jesus was. We have started a journy with Jesus, have we counted the cost? We lose our life, that was the deal remember. But we will gain our life in Him.
    This world is only temporarily, the enemy looks vicious, but Jesus has conquered all. He is the Master of the Universe. WE follow Him, in my battle with migraine, I got this word too: have faith.
    Now is the day to work at your faith, that it grows stronger in Jesus. I meditate and read in the bible a lot on that nowadays, Jesus is Victor, over everything.
    Today is the day, now is the light: we learn now to stay calm and restfull in Jesus, whatever the circumstances.

    In the stories of Martyrs,(thanks to internet you can read them at home on your computer) some go through it shining as stars, because GOd can only work mightily in us when our faith is sure in Him, but some had not so glorious stories to tell, they shrunk back in front of the aggessor. In the dungeons, many of them had to recollect their faith,

    this is really getting of topic, sorry Mart,
    But in the oppression it is clear who we really are, or how strong our faith is, and how much we rely on Jesus, and (thinking of ong2dblu, who hates it that we stay the same, :-) then we can change more and more in His image. In the heat of the fight the pearl will come out. We should look forward to this. I know it sounds silly, but our fellow christians 19hundred years ago have gone through it too.
    Relying on the rapture and thinking this will not happen to us, well….

    BruceC Dominus Deus Sabaoth
    Lord of Hosts
    (sang this last weekend, is part or the requiem of Mozart)

  69. Mart De Haan says:

    Good discussion with a lot of perspectives. Thanks.

    Am going to raise the question a little differently with a new post–hopefully, within the hour or so.

    Then later today that post is scheduled to be pushed to a wider group on our e-letter list. Hopefully we can pick up the discussion on anger and thoughts on what it takes to get it under control in that post.

  70. oneg2dblu says:

    Good morning All… the events between Saul and David, although really elevated by not seeking God first, and making human only effort, took what started as discontentment or mild anger,and resulted in an out of control seeknig to kill David! There is just one letter from *anger* to get to DANGER!
    I feel we are always one step away from Danger, if we do not seek the Lord first in all things, and anger is a red flag to stepping outside the protection of God’s Will, as Satan can grow anger into rage!

  71. oneg2dblu says:

    bratimus… Yes, the sower throws seeds every where, but only the good soil, produces a lasting crop. As far as the ground you speek of, where there is no root,it speeks to the Falling Away, first hearing and believing, and then… Falling Away!
    Those words of Christ, speak to me as well, that Once one “thinks” they are Saved, there is for some if not careful to remain rooted, also a Falling Away that does not represent being Always Saved!
    But, those very words “seem to be ignored,” by the well taught Doctrine of Eternal Security for some who choose to believe differently. All a man’s ways seem right to him… but in the end lead to death, BECAUSE for some there can be a Falling Away! Gary

  72. Geraldine M. Ross says:

    Love and forgiveness are twins.

  73. oneg2dblu says:

    Geraldine… words and weapons could fall into that twins profile as well! But, I am partial to your take on the twins, as they give us the higher road, instead of the reality of our nature. Good company may brings a better resolve, but only God can forgive our sin!
    Gary

  74. peacedove says:

    To Bob in Cornwall….sorry I blew it.A good friend of mines father,a British soldier spent the entire war in Burma holding off the Japanese.Canadian pilots flew planes to supply those guys.
    Australia/New Zealand and all the commonwealth countries were all vital to final victory.

  75. confeticat says:

    Poohpity, you blow me away. Telling Ape that “I know you could have reacted with that old you which woould have set you back where you were before but you used the born again person…”

    What is this? Knives in a drawer? You pull one out and then the other depending on how spiritual you feel at the moment? Being born again is not taking on an additional life you tote around on your back! A person born in the spirit is no longer living in the flesh. He has eternal life and therefore does not go back to where he was before. One who goes back does not have eternal life. Jesus said so. “Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.” John 3:36

    You may not realize that you are leading people astray.

  76. poohpity says:

    confeticat, thank you for the feedback but that is not what I said. I said “Ape, I know you could have reacted with the old you which may have sent you back where you were before but you used the born again person and the weapons of your faith.” So in this the original context and wording how is that leading anyone astray? I was encouraging him in the action he took. So maybe it could have been that it was read and misunderstood.

    Even tho we are born again it does not get rid of the old right away it is a growth process that takes spending time with the Lord transforming us into His likeness.

  77. plumbape says:

    confeticat this is what poohpity said
    Ape, I know you could have reacted with the old you which *may* have *sent* you back where you were before but you used the born again person and the weapons of your faith.
    She wasn’t speaking about spirtual set back but being sent back to prison. We go back a ways together you might say. I can see how someone could have easily misunderstood though. Thanks and God Bless
    Michael

  78. poohpity says:

    I am just glad ape you understood where I was coming from. Gosh someone had my back, thank you. :-)

  79. plumbape says:

    responding at the same time, lol

  80. confeticat says:

    I’m sorry y’all, when I entered here the first time I should have said “God’s peace be on this house.” Same difference, Pooh, between what you had said and my quote, and also between a spiritual setback and prison. “Even tho we are born again it does not get rid of the old right away” (did I quote you right this time?)is a sad commentary on Christians. Why are you willing to settle for man’s brand of born again? You hand out too many passes, Pooh, to others and to yourself.

    Yer darn tootin, Ape, you better not turn the other cheek if you’re a Christian unless you want to get smacked up the side of the head. That is for Kingdom people. Maybe you and Pooh go back together TOO far. It’s time to get off the hamster wheel and start getting somewhere. Jesus was not a stooge for Paul.

  81. poohpity says:

    It is not my place to judge others they are responsible to the Lord not to me. When I do not know someone but by a few lines typed here I would do well to hold my criticism because I am unable to know their heart. Thank you for giving an example of what Mart spoke of in the very first paragraph of this topic; “Claiming to be a follower of Christ, the Apostle Paul wrote that without love, our words are like meaningless noise (1Cor 13:1-3).

  82. plumbape says:

    Thanks confeticat, that might be the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me…..

    trying to please the Lord not man

  83. poohpity says:

    Michael, sometimes I can hardly lift my head up because I feel beat down so often. Why are people so mean especially those that say they are Christians? I do not understand. :-(

  84. foreverblessed says:

    Dear Pooh, head up! There is a book called:
    crucified by christians
    Fellowship with christians is a very good means to make us grow in the character that God wants in us.
    Bloggin here is part of the deal! It has been good for me, when I get upset what people write, what do I do? Is there still some in me that needs to be crucified? That would make it a good thing for me, I can be cleansed. What others write and say is not my business, it is God who is their Master.
    Head up girl! Jesus loves you, and so do I.

  85. plumbape says:

    Thank you foreverblessed and you are absolutely right.

    I read an article on Christianity Today called Don’t presume to be bloggers which talks about the digital age and how anyone can do something that would be like writing and publishing a book before the enternet. We might not realize how many people read it and it is like teaching which the teachers will be judged more harshly. Of course unless a person is a professional writer they run the risk of being misunderstood all over the place because even the pro’s are…! But can’t make the omlet without breaking someone’s head or I mean, an egg, lol

    I love you both and thanks
    Michael

  86. poohpity says:

    Thank you both, I got into my car on the way to an appointment and on the radio they were speaking about being thankful in all things which I was doing the opposite and feeling bad for my self. Once I asked for forgiveness for my attitude and started praising God my head began to lift up. God is in control.

    The sign above my computer says, “I will be handling all your problems today. I will not need your help, so have a good day” Thank you Father.

  87. confeticat says:

    Why would Paul need Jesus to live out what he taught? Why are his teachings undoable for us?

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