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Roots of a Jinx

Photo by: akiwitz

Some call it superstition. Others talk with familiarity about the sports gods who lift up underdogs and bring down the mighty.

As the 2012 London Summer Olympic games begin, coaches, teammates, and fans all over the world will be trying not to jinx their national athletes.

Everyone seems to sense that, for reasons beyond ourselves,  pride comes before a fall.

So how much of stretch is it to take the occasion to wonder if  mere games could have anything to do with Jesus saying, “Blessed are the poor in spirit”? Paul urged his readers not to nurse exaggerated opinions of themselves. Peter said,  “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble,” and James echoed a related thought when he wrote, “Humble yourselves before the Lord and he will lift you up.”

Together these familiar life coaches did more than relay the wisdom of Solomon who counseled the wise to not be caught praising themselves. They were being true to Moses who gives us reason to remember that we are the children of parents who would still be mud if not for the hands and breath of God.

None of us will be able to speak with much insight and authority about whether the God of Creation will or will not be dealing the cards that determine the makes and breaks of the games that will follow. But who can deny that the superstitions of the athletes could be a timely reminder that–in the most important choices and thoughts of our lives, God does resist the proud, and give grace to… those who know their place before him…


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78 Responses to “Roots of a Jinx”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    Many men of Scripture had reason to be proud of their accomplishments, even those who had accomplished much for God, but there is a fine line between feeling a sense of accomplishment and being cocky about it.

    I truly think that the haughty pride that is considered a bad characteristic is different than being happy with yourself for your success.

    Speaking of the athletes in Marts opening remarks; these people have worked very hard to get where they are, they have sacrificed and dedicated much to their effort. They have reason to feel good just in being there.

    We all appreciate a champion who is humble and does not brag, gives encouragement even to his competitors and shies away from the spotlight. Yet that same champion has reason to feel good inside and happy that they have won.

    It would be wrong of anyone to take that away from them.

    It is no different in life. We all strive for something and if we succeed we have reason to be happy. Some of us may give God the glory and give thanks for our success. But most often we had a journey of effort and sacrifice combined with prayer and faith that brought us to the winning circle. There are also most often a number of other people who helped us succeed and we all like to think the number one guy who helped us was God.

    So what happens when we fail? Is the failure a solo disaster or is that to be shared with all of those others who went along with us as well? Are we then to say God allowed us to fail or just didn’t help us, or that He had remained neutral and did nothing on anyone’s behalf?

    A cool foggy morning in the mountains this morning.

    Steve

  2. SFDBWV says:

    I believe the old adage is “Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan.”

    Steve

  3. Bill says:

    I think there’s a difference between being proud of one’s accomplishments, even of one’s finely tuned physique and athletic prowess…and being “proud” to the point of lording it over others.

    I think the kind of pride Mart wrote about — the kind God doesn’t appreciate — has to do with attitude toward others.

    Since a great deal (most?) of scripture is related to how we deal with/treat others, I think the verses Mart cited have to do with the kind of pride that looks down on others, treats others poorly, and thinks too highly of oneself. Being proud of oneself is one thing, being prideful is another.

    As everyone knows, the latest Christian athlete to make it big is Tim Tebow. He appears to be a man who is very accomplished in life — which came from years of training and sacrifice — but a man who demonstrates humility and kindness toward others. Say what you will about him, he seems to be a humble man.

    I don’t think God cares about outcomes of sporting events. For example, He’s not betting on America in the Olympic games, or rooting for the Yankees to take the championship again. And he likely doesn’t want East Kentwood to trounce Northview when the rival schools meet up this fall. (I have it on good authority that God is a Northview grad, anyway.)

    So I always found it odd that, before a game, teams would pray for God to bless their efforts (in other words, give them a win) on the field.

    God doesn’t care if you win or lose. He cares HOW you win or lose — with pridefuleness and glee…or with humility and grace.

    Superstitions just make things fun.

  4. phpatato says:

    Bill

    You sparked a warm memory with the words “if you win or lose”. My Dad used as a teaching tool the last two sentences of the great poem “Alumnus Football” written by Grantland Rice. I heard him say it over and over again. Many of you may be familiar with those words in the last stanza but I wonder how many have actually read the whole poem.

    Mart with your permission…..(it’s quite lengthy but so worth the read)

    Alumnus football
    Grantland Rice

    Bill Jones had been the shining star upon his college team.
    His tackling was ferocious and his bucking was a dream.
    When husky William took the ball beneath his brawny arm
    They had two extra men to ring the ambulance alarm.

    Bill hit the line and ran the ends like some mad bull amuck.
    The other team would shiver when they saw him start to buck.
    And when some rival tackler tried to block his dashing pace,
    On waking up, he’d ask, “Who drove that truck across my face?”

    Bill had the speed-Bill had the weight-Bill never bucked in vain;
    From goal to goal he whizzed along while fragments, strewed the plain,
    And there had been a standing bet, which no one tried to call,
    That he could make his distance through a ten-foot granite wall.

    When he wound up his college course each student’s heart was sore.
    They wept to think bull-throated Bill would sock the line no more.
    Not so with William – in his dreams he saw the Field of Fame,
    Where he would buck to glory in the swirl of Life’s big game.

    Sweet are the dreams of college life, before our faith is nicked-
    The world is but a cherry tree that’s waiting to be picked;
    The world is but an open road-until we find, one day,
    How far away the goal posts are that called us to the play.

    So, with the sheepskin tucked beneath his arm in football style,
    Bill put on steam and dashed into the thickest of the pile;
    With eyes ablaze he sprinted where the laureled highway led-
    When Bill woke up his scalp hung loose and knots adorned his head.

    He tried to run the ends of life, but with rib-crushing toss
    A rent collector tackled him and threw him for a loss.
    And when he switched his course again and dashed into the line
    The massive Guard named Failure did a toddle on his spine.

    Bill tried to punt out of the rut, but ere he turned the trick
    Right Tackle Competition scuttled through and blocked the kick.
    And when he tackled at Success in one long, vicious prod
    The Fullback Disappointment steered his features in sod.

    Bill was no quitter, so he tried a buck in higher gear,
    But Left Guard Envy broke it up and stood him on his ear.
    Whereat he aimed a forward pass, but in two vicious bounds
    Big Center Greed slipped through a hole and rammed him out of bounds.

    But one day, when across the Field of Fame the goal seemed dim,
    The wise old coach, Experience, came up and spoke to him.
    “Oh Boy,” he said, “the main point now before you win your bout
    Is keep on bucking Failure till you’ve worn the piker out!”

    “And, kid, cut out this fancy stuff – go in there, low and hard;
    Just keep your eye upon the ball and plug on, yard by yard,
    And more than all, when you are thrown or tumbled with a crack,
    Don’t sit there whining-hustle up and keep on coming back;

    “Keep coming back with all you’ve got, without an alibi,
    If Competition trips you up or lands upon your eye,
    Until at last above the din you hear this sentence spilled:
    ‘We might as well let this bird through before we all get killed.’

    “You’ll find the road is long and rough, with soft spots far apart,
    Where only those can make the grade who have the Uphill Heart.
    And when they stop you with a thud or halt you with a crack,
    Let Courage call the signals as you keep on coming back.

    “Keep coming back, and though the world may romp across your spine,
    Let every game’s end find you still upon the battling line;
    For when the One Great Scorer comes to mark against your name,
    He writes – not that you won or lost – but how you played the Game

  5. SFDBWV says:

    Thank you for the poem Pat.

    Steve

  6. poohpity says:

    Man often has many things to boast about especially when the person has worked so hard to achieve a goal. In their hearts most times the sense of accomplishment can be great but it only lasts for a season. Thinking of athletes maybe 10 years they are in their prime then all the glory fades away when they can no longer compete as they did in their 20’s and maybe early 30’s. Entering their 40’s and 50’s when all the crowds applause cease they are soon forgotten except for those high lighted years. Trophies, awards, medals and rings sit on the selves and gather dust or are sold to pawn shops because they can not pay the bills.

    Paul boasted in his weaknesses because it was his reliance on the Lord that made him great. (2 Cor 11:16-12:10 NIV) The reliance on the Lord was to accomplish the work God had set before him for the Kingdom. He likened it to a race but a race that spread out over a life time. (Acts 20:24; 2 Tim 4:7 NIV) I feel that the minute we accept Christ we start a race not in what we can accomplish but the task that we are each given for the benefit of the Kingdom. No awards, medals, trophies or rings but most of the time slander, persecution and hardship of which many shrink back from peer pressure. It is a crown of which we lay at the feet of of our Lord to acknowledge where the honor and Glory belong. (Rev 4:10-11)

  7. phpatato says:

    You are welcome Steve. It brought tears to my eyes and had me kinda wishing that I could turn back the hands of time….For what I know now, I’d play the game a lot different. There were times that I sat idle on the bench whining and there are still times that I find myself in the mud not wanting to go on. But for the Grace of God, I am still in the game and I am so very grateful that He has given me a Helper. It’s up to me whether I follow my own game plan or His. May God grant me the wisdom and knowledge to humbly follow His.

  8. royalpalm says:

    Mart, thanks for faithfully challenging our beliefs with the topics posted here…To each one, thank you for your thoughts… there is much wisdom in them and I continually praise God for working in each one’s heart… this the love of God: He will bring to glorious completion that which He started in a person’s life.

    pat, your poem also brought tears to my eyes…How great is the love of our heavenly Father who took us out of the pit and set us up on the Rock… Psalm 40:2, 3 and through our faith in Jesus Christ, made us His Sons and co-heirs of all His spiritual blessings!!! Gal. 3:26, Eph. 1:3 Life, with all its struggles, failures, disappointments, pain, and sorrow has a new meaning and purpose. We can have joy, peace, and contentment whatever our lot maybe because of our new identity in Christ. Let our hearts be filled with praise and thanksgiving at all times…Psalm 145:1,2 Psalm 103:1,2,3,4,5; Psalm 19:14

  9. davids says:

    My first reaction to Mart’s words were to smile at how Americans love to mix sport and religion. In the footer you will even see “Sports Spectrum”.

    Then my mind wandered to Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:24-27. The original Christian sports metaphor! Some research turns up that in ancient Greece, the Olympic games were only one of several games, including one that was hosted by the city of Corinth.

    Päul uses the metaphor to teach about Christian Disclipine. More important than superstition is the preparation and dedication.

  10. poohpity says:

    More than once when I was young because of the problems with my legs that prevented us as a family from doing something I felt as tho I was a jinx. One time we were going to the fair and I asked my mom for a drink of her buttermilk not knowing it was an acquired taste, I then lost it all over my pretty lace dress and then we could not go to the fair. I felt like my mom blamed me for causing everyone to miss out that day going to the fair. I wish I could say that that ingrained thought process has left but many times I still find myself feeling like I am a jinx. Even knowing the rationale behind it, the thought still pops into my mind.

  11. foreverblessed says:

    For all non-native english speaking people:
    A jinx, in popular superstition and folklore, is: A type of curse placed on a person that makes them prey to many minor misfortunes and other forms of bad luck.
    Sometimes I do not get everything what is written.
    Like the poem of Phpatato, most of the lines I do not understand.
    But the poem is so long, and then at the end: it matters how we play the game, that really touched my heart.
    The scripture Davids quoted, about Paul urging us to run the race, when I was younger, that verse made me work harder to be a good person myself. That verse made me so terrible hardworking. Now I know that everything Paul wrote had to be done with Jesus Christ, How we play the game: with Jesus Christ, being in Him.
    I am in Him, He is mine and I am His, this faith should be growing and growing stronger.
    The discipline I have is to involve Him in all my life, asking Him for guidance, seeing we are nothing without Him. Like Jesus said: I can of myself do nothing, but the Father who is in me He does it.
    Because of myself I would do it on my own. That old man must grow less, yes, a fadingman!
    During the day I will pause: where is Jesus, am I still with Him or am I doing it on my own, trying to be nice, trying to be good.
    Oswald Chambers is also urging us to be disciplined, just like Paul, his writings are the reason I found this blog. But it is a slow proces for me, slowly, but as long as I do not give up, but keep walking with Jesus Christ.

  12. SFDBWV says:

    Several years ago there was a pair of delightful movies titled “Major League” in one, for good luck, prior to a game the Voo Doo worshiper among them wanted to sacrifice a chicken, so the manager got him a bucket of KFC instead.

    Foreverblessed rightfully explained what a jinx is to those who may not understand *American* English.

    However I wanted to add that here in America we have adopted all of the superstitions of cultures from all over the world. It is one of those things that makes America what it is, a mixture of races, cultures and ideas.

    Everyone understands the idea of a person who brings bad luck into a group (Jinx), and so too often that person is avoided and shunned as expressed by pooh. However there is also the ability to *jinx* something by saying the wrong thing or not doing a certain ritual.

    Of course the roots of a jinx is the belief in *luck* good and bad. The superstition that we can affect *luck* by personal idiosyncrasies is what happens when we try and control the events of our lives with or without preparing for them.

    As ridiculous as belief in luck, or jinxes may seem, we most all of us have that little nagging feeling that maybe there is some truth to it. So most of us don’t take chances and avoid doing certain things.

    Avoid walking under a ladder, throw spilt salt over our shoulder, even say to someone “God bless you” after they sneeze.

    Whereas the intellectual and *enlightened* world views all religions as superstitions, some people have made a religion of superstitions, and follow it *religiously*.

    Bill is right in saying superstitions can be fun, but they can also be a pathway to misguided trust, so though taken lightly by most of us we must always remember to trust our futures to God and our adherence to His advice, not to what color shirt to wear or which shoe goes on first etcetera.

    Steve

  13. poohpity says:

    Mart, I think the bible repeatedly let’s us know that one major fault about us humans is an elevated sense of ourselves. Solomon and Paul both talk about blowing our own horns. Even in the religious community how many times have we run into those folks that boast of how spirit filled they are and that in and of it’s self let’s one know they aren’t. When one is spirit filled the Glory and Honor go to the source not the vessel.

    It seems when athletes think that any ritual has anything to do with whether a game or competition determines the win puts a lot of trust in the ritual rather than the ability. Then if they lose then it can be blamed on anything else other than they blew it. It is the same with our behavior we can blame our shortcomings on others because it stops us from taking responsibility for anything. Things like “you make me mad” rather than my response to that behavior is anger. Taking responsibility is hard but it is very humbling to admit to ignorance or our own reactions, faults and failures. When we confess those things that is when God will help us to change not when we blame everything on everybody else.

    Humility is able to be taught and molded by God into a useful vessel that can do good works and allow God to give us His praise when we get to heaven but if we receive praise here then there will be none when we go home. 2 Cor 10:17,18

  14. poohpity says:

    Also Luke 14:7-9

  15. foreverblessed says:

    THank you Pooh, for your writings, what I was going to add, is a little different then you point, but I post it anyway, for anyone to read who wants to.
    It is about us running a race. I read a devotion God at eventide, by two listeners. It is Jesus talking to old ladies directly. Like Confeticat says Jesus talks to him, He talked to these ladies.
    this is what was for today:
    July 26 Perfect yourself
    “rfect as My Father in Heaven is perfect.

    That means a life-struggle, and unending growth. Always as you progress, a greater perception of My Father. More struggles and growth. Above all a growing need of Me and My sustaining help.

    I came to found a Kingdom of Progressive growth. Alas, how many of My followers think that all they have to do is to accept Me as Savior. That is a first step only.

    Heaven itself is no place for stagnation. It is indeed a place of progress. You will need Eternity to understand Eternal Mind.”

    Always growing in faith, in humility, in dependence on God, as is stated: “a growing need of Me”.
    Well that takes some humility, to give yourself over to Jesus. But I guess we have to get to know Him very well first, before we can do that. I do not think God would want us to surrender to a stranger.
    He should become a very very close Friend.

  16. narrowpathseeker says:

    Steve, Davids, Foreverblessed.. another belated thank you for the encouragement and kind words. I always discern a genuine heart for Christ in your posts and that alone is encouraging to me and I believe it is encouraging to others as well.

    I have been abundantly blessed with experiencing the amazing power of God first hand. My daughter’s husband is dealing with Cancer in addition to dealing with her father. God has enabled me to take over my ex’s full care so they can go on frequent(and needed) get aways. He can no longer leave his room and needs O2 24/7. On one of those occasions we lost power and I rushed to get the generator going. I prepare and serve his meals and give him his medications 4x a day. THIS WOULD NOT BE REMOTELY POSSIBLE FOR ME IN MY OWN UGLY HUMAN STATE!! All those looking on(family and close friends) are well aware of God’s Grace in this matter as they KNOW the contempt with which I was battling.

  17. oneg2dblu says:

    Roots of a Jinx… Upon the human condition Satan placed the Jinx. A crafty reproduction of Holy Words spoken by God, with a touch of Satan’s added Evil in the mix.” Did God really say…?” “Surely you won’t die.”
    Was mankind tempted beyond what it could bear, or was Evil’s cunning and deception even more believable and appealing to Eve?
    Clearly knowing God’s spoken Word, Eve in her humanity certainly possessed the all power of the word, as found in Genesis 3:2-3. But, Satan presented another form where all the power and protection of those words was confused and sold as an innocent wanting of something more easily grasped.
    That’s where te Jinx took hold, and all humanity still seeks the wanting of more for itself.
    The perfect union of the Word of God gently mixed with a little bit of confusion, is all it takes to separate us from God’s original warnings intended for our protection, only to follow something else we now serve as a god. Our strongly held churches doctrine presented with its cunning and deception has the same result upon all humanity who serves it.
    Eve was not tripped up by the actual word she knew already or by the relationship with God she had already, she was deceived into following something else, the well crafted mixed words of another.
    As today, where we choose for ourselves another church doctrine, another church preacher, another church. Another highly polished, “Apple of Belief,” instead of maintaining relationship first, she followed something else. How many Eve’s are among us in our churches today? Only God knows, so he wrote us all the warnings, but we choose our doctrines anyhow above even all those warnings.
    Did God really say, “Surely one can’t ever be lost, after one first believes…?”
    Is it just a belief in a strongly held popular doctrine so easily satisfying the sinnig masses, or is having a personal daily relationship with us, that Our God, Our Heavinly Father, really wants us to hold so dearly, to worship, and to follow?
    Where multitudes today need only their church doctrine to hold them secure, and where works of course would be a conflict with it, and gather no merit. I still hold dearly all my daily effort, running the race if you will, to maintain this ongoing relatioship with God, through his son,Jesus Christ, and the His Holy Spirit. I wonder how many here find all that discipline, the daily work, is wasted when I could just hold onto a popular church doctrine instead? Gary

  18. narrowpathseeker says:

    Foreverblessed: You were posting while I was writing. Thank you for posting about “more struggles and growth”. Although, I have had this recent victory, I am painfully aware of so many other battles with my flesh that I need to fight and win. Sometimes I think, “What is wrong with me?!”, because I want to be perfect and pleasing to God and I am so far from perfect that it tends to take the joy out of the victories God has given me. Thank you for reminding me that progress is a life long endeavor. You are truly a blessing.

  19. oneg2dblu says:

    Wow! A quick re-read just caught all my earthly mistakes, but I’m sure you’ll get the heavenly message contained. Still not myself yet, lacking the strength I know I’ll have when healthy again, but my relationship is stronger than ever, we worked on it together. So, in His strength, I trust those “less than perfect” words will not go wasted.

  20. narrowpathseeker says:

    Gary, I do not come here regularly anymore and I am not aware of what you are recovering from. However, I am sorry for whatever you are dealing with but glad you are making progress in the physical realm as well as the spiritual. I will be praying for your full recovery from whatever affliction was upon you.

  21. foreverblessed says:

    Narrowpathseeker, you made huge progress with the help of God, already. Serving the one by whom all the contemption is coming. (I believe he does not know where the source of the contemption is from). This is such an encouragement to me. I praise God for helping you so mightily! God bless you lots and lots.

  22. poohpity says:

    narrowpathseeker, you seem to be living out what “Our Daily Bread” talked about today regarding your ex, “Changing Enemies Into Friends”. Praise God!!

  23. SFDBWV says:

    I would have to guess that to athletes or ordinary people like me who place God in the position of being omnipotent and have come to believe that they have a *personal* relationship with Him through Jesus Christ, believe that they can ask for anything using His name and expect to receive it.
    So athletes or teams who pray for victory over another makes sense.

    However superstitions are a different matter. The superstitions of today were once the religion of our pagan ancestors and it is because of that that we still feel a connection to them.

    I am however straining to see the segue from superstitions and jinxes to pride and its ensuing fall.

    Any good athlete must have confidence in themselves; however confidence and haughty pride are two different matters as well.

    Scripture tells us to envision that which we are striving for, believe that we will achieve it and walk toward it with confidence and faith and we can achieve that and anything including the moving a mountain and tossing it into the sea.

    That is confidence.

    However what is pride but a false confidence; belief that resting on the laurels of past accomplishments gives reason to feel special and above others, basking in the flattery of others and enjoying the echo of listening to flattery over and over in ones mind.

    Like the hare in the race, daydreaming while another wins the day.

    That is pride and its ensuing fall.

    Steve

  24. Mart De Haan says:

    Good points, Steve,
    My thought is simply that from the beginning of the ancient games until now there has been an awareness that something outside of and beyond ourselves can and does affect outcomes. The ancients made links to the gods who they thought gave them strength and victory.

    Today many athletes continue to credit either God or superstitious repetitions with their performance.

    My point is that to whatever extent these beliefs or ideas are true or not– they are an occasion to reflect on the reality of the God who will, in his time, bring us down or lift us up… depending on the interaction between his heart and our’s.

  25. SFDBWV says:

    There is an old joke told by I am sure an Irishman that goes as follows.

    “The English think best while standing, the French while setting, but the Irish always later on.”

    This is certainly the realm of Marts world and business, it is His Blog and how he operates it totally under his discretion as to how it is formatted.

    I nearly never go back to old topics and in my own personal opinion believe there should be a time limit on them or closed altogether after opening a new one.

    In looking in on the never ending disagreement between one blogger and everyone else on the last past topic I am reminded of the other old topic that has a large number of comments “Can one lose their salvation” and the same string of unending and may I say unyielding bickering to no conclusion other than the fact that people disagree and will not let another tell them what to believe.

    Another old adage is “no need to beat a dead horse”, or something to that effect.

    Steve

  26. SFDBWV says:

    Looks like we were banging keyboards at the same time Mart.

    When I was a young man it was easy for me to look into the occult as recognizing that as Mart has said “an awareness outside and beyond ourselves.”

    It wasn’t until I read and was led to understand from Scripture that that otherworldly sense is the instinctive knowledge that there is a God.

    That that longing for something I could not put my finger on, was a relationship with my Creator.

    That also that supernatural sense was instilled in me in order that I would seek Him out and find a way home.

    Like a vague dream or memory as I walk along the pathway to that celestial home, slowly things people and events around me seem more and more familiar as I near home.

    And even when I was far off and just beginning this journey home I have come to know that God could see me coming and began the preparations for a celebration upon my arrival.

    The occult and superstitions have their allure, but the *truth* is always stranger than *fiction*.

    Steve

  27. poohpity says:

    “God does resist the proud, and give grace to… those who know their place before him…” I can not tell you how many times people take credit for real wisdom, wisdom that comes from God. Kneeling down at the foot of the Cross and not accusing others but telling them that someone loves them so much and wants them to know Him. Being able to explain that salvation message comes from God and especially what happens after that initial confession of faith shows how much we embrace it.

    If we win competitions or awards for things that mainly matter here on this earth really have no heavenly good. How we go about achieving those things and staying in a vital union with the One who deals the cards we have to play with is what is important. Grumbling, accusing, complaining, anger, malice and hatred are not signs that the Lord has a place in our hearts. That is a sign of pride, that the person knows better than God and trust in their own strength to bring about their will and not God’s.

    Meekly, gently, kindly, lovingly and patiently guiding others to seek God, showing that we ourselves have many areas we struggle with, shows humility. Calling out all the things we are against will not allow us time to tell people what we are for, the message of salvation and a relationship with the Lord.

  28. davids says:

    Amen, Pooh. We recently moved into a larger church, able to fit many more souls. I feel the need now to spread the word, rather than argue about who’s in and who’s out. So, I’n not here much anymore.

    I’ve been praying for your family, and especially Shana. I might have missed something, but I hope it is okay. I once was lost and now I’m found. I think you know the song too.

  29. poohpity says:

    Thank you so very much, David. She is still lost but I am trusting her care into the hands of our Lord.

  30. bubbles says:

    Yesterday a godly woman visited. She spoke about the last few years and how they have been full of deaths, surgeries, incarcerrations of loved ones, illnesses, and so on. She said, “How can my hands be held out to receive God’s blessings,but not His trials?” She then went on to say how God had helped her and that He was faithful in the trying times.

    That is true humility. She gave God the credit for helping her with the hard times. She did not give herself the credit, but relied on Him to help her. She has always had an amazing and positive attitude about life even when it was very difficult for her. Time and again I have seen the Lord provide for her when there was nothing. She is truly a wise woman like the one found in Prov. 31.

  31. poohpity says:

    I have a sign on my wall that says, “I (God) will be handling all your problems today and I do not need your help, so enjoy your day. Even when there are rough spots we can find joy knowing that God is in control, so I do not have to be. That is very hard for controlling people because they always have to be large and in charge, they do not feel anyone can do a better job then they can. The sad part is that when the rug gets pulled out from under them everything will tend to fall apart because they have been in control for so long no one else has learned how to do anything. Pride comes before a fall and can cause it too!!

  32. royalpalm says:

    Scriptures tell us that God created everything . (Col. 1:16) He is unique and separate from His creation. As the CREATOR He expects ALL His creation to recognize His Uniqueness and His absolute authority and to worship Him alone.

    When we worship any creation rather than the Creator, we exchange the truth of God for the lie…Rom. 1:25. The biggest lie was uttered by the father of lies, “…You will be like God.” (Gen. 3:4-5). When Adam believed this, he elevated himself to the level of His Creator.

    This is where we need to be vigilant. Satan wants us to worship anything except God, to ascribe power to anything except God. He wants us to worship and place our trust on the creation (satan, man/self, angels, nature, etc) rather than the Creator. So in this regard, pride and jinx have no place in God’s kingdom.

    According to Solomon, in Olympics as in all other pursuits, the Great Scorer determines the timing and the outcome. ( Ecc. 9:11; Prov. 16:9)

    The history of the kings of Judah and Israel is a lesson on success and failure…those who did what was right in the eyes of the Lord succeeded (e.g. Asa in I Kings 15:11) while those who did evil failed (e.g. Abijam and Nadab I Kings 15: 1,2,3, 25). As far as what really matters, this lesson still applies today.

  33. royalpalm says:

    Sorry, additional references are Ecclesiastes 9:11, I kings 15:25,26, 28

  34. BruceC says:

    Claudia,

    Your post was very observant and astute. “Mind games”

    As you have siad they can be very hurtful and are usually based in selfishness. Have seen those games played out in my wife’s family; i.e. guilt trips, self pity, etc. All just to get the final outcome desired for the person playing them. My wife has been hurt by these “mind games” so many times and the manipulation and control they are intended to cause. Very good post Claudia.

    BruceC
    Soli Deo Gloria!

  35. SFDBWV says:

    I watched the opening ceremonies of the Olympics last evening; a symphony of the history of the British Isles.

    I especially enjoyed the London Symphony playing “Chariots of Fire” accompanied by a comedy routine with “Mr. Bean”.

    As our commentary stated there was over a billion people watching, I couldn’t help but admire the courage of the worlds athletes as they marched into the arena and noticed how many had cameras to record the moment for themselves, a reminder to me of what a very normal thing to do; a humble thing to do.

    This morning as I stood outside gazing skyward, there was a mixture of white puffy clouds in a giant circle above me and off in the east gray clouds with that soft glow of purple underneath all awaiting the arrival of the sun.

    As I ask for a good day for me and mine I couldn’t help but be touched by the beauty of it all and once again humbled by the ability of our Creator to make just such a moment.

    Yesterday I had a first; while replacing one of three hummingbird feeders as I lifted up one to hang on its hook, while still having it in my hand, a little humming bird came and lit on it and drank from it. I stood stiff and still and let him drink before settling the feeder down into its seat. What an exhilarating feeling almost a connection to that tiny little bird.

    I hope as the world watches the games in London, that the evildoers of this world are kept away, and the world sees what is best not what is worst among us.

    I can’t help but see and feel like that tiny little bird, as I am fed and watched over by God, I pray He watches over the Games and blesses the efforts of all of His children there.

    Steve

  36. phpatato says:

    Steve

    I watched the last half of the opening ceremonies. The parade of athletes was just beginning when I sat down. I couldn’t believe how Jacques Rogge – International Olympic Committee President – included in his speech the same thought about the Great Scorer. Here in part:

    “I congratulate all of the athletes who have earned a place at these Games. And to the athletes, I offer this thought: Your talent, your dedication and commitment brought you here. Now you have a chance to become true Olympians. That honor is determined not by whether you win, but by how you compete. Character counts far more than medals.”

    I believe he touched the pulse of these games. Good luck to all the Olympians.

  37. poohpity says:

    Wouldn’t it be marvelous to settle the world’s disputes through those games.

    Bruce, I thought of you and your wife as I watched a program on foster care and adoption from Terry M and Gordon R.. They also had Congress Women Michele Bachman talking about her 25 foster kids. They did not mince words about how hard it is. I pray your wife and you find healing from the harsh words of the family and forgive their ignorance.

    Steve, I pray you have a great day too!! I really enjoy watching hummingbirds too!!

    Claudia love those words from Billy’s brother. To have a heart above all else to give God’s message is a great desire of my heart as well. Sometimes the task seems a little overwhelming and from one who used to like to be loved to go to rejections is at times hard.

    royalpalm it would be nice if we placed God above all else but sadly for most that is not how it is. The things of this world even children can take first in a life and the Lord is placed lower on the list of priories. How different it would be if it was God above all else just in the life of Christians but that is not the norm, sadly but God is so patient with us.

  38. oneg2dblu says:

    Narrowpathseeker… bless you for your kind words of healing and support. They speak much too how we as believers can react to another’s blight. They are a gift of love and compassion that ring so sweetly in a world of darkness, they bring much light.
    Your prayer is answered, as I am very quickly overcoming that attack on my physical being.
    Was it a Job moment, No! Nor, have I ever been asked to shed my blood for the sins of others as Christ. But, I do bare my soul, and bear my families and others rejection, and make much effort for protecting the pure Gospel message, from any other message that dilutes it or adds to it, for that is the deceptive nature of a successful false teaching as it brings into this world it’s distorted, but in vogue for the masses, unrelenting Jinx. Gary

  39. poohpity says:

    Could it be Gary that the rejection is because of accusing rather than the message of forgiveness? Could it be staying so consumed with what you are against rather than showing the message of hope, restoration, acceptance and patience from our Lord and Savior? In humility understanding that ALL fall short as Jesus taught and none of us can point a finger at another because none of us are perfect. God’s will for us is not to accuse others of sin but to comprehend the amount of forgiveness, compassion and love that Jesus showed by His death and resurrection to you and share how you felt that minute you accepted that atonement for your sins. That is the Gospel/Good News.

  40. royalpalm says:

    Regarding the Olympics, I admire the dedication, commitment, discipline, and sacrifice that the athletes do to take them to the ultimate competition. The life of Eric Liddell, 1924 Olympic gold winner, attests to God’s gifts and how to honor Him through that gift. Liddell said he felt divinely inspired when running, and that not to run would be to dishonour God: “I believe that God made me for a purpose. But He also made me fast, and when I run, I feel His pleasure.” He stood for his Christian conviction and honored God and God honored him. Nevertheless, he never lost sight of his calling: to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ. He returned to China in 1925 and died there serving His Lord and Master at age 43.

    Yes, pooh, it is a constant struggle against the cares of the world, as Jesus calls it… We need to always renew our minds with God’s Word so we do not lose God’s perspective. The book “The Practice of the Presence of God” by Brother Lawrence is a wonderful book that helps me… Aside from Daily Bread, I also read “The One Year Christian History” which is about God’s powerful work in people’s lives (including Eric Liddell) and whenever I have more time I try to read J.I Packer’s “Knowing God” and C. H. Spurgeon’s “The Treasury of David” on the Psalms

    Our relationship with God and commitment to do His work also requires sacrifice ,dedication, and discipline and as mentioned, likened by Paul to a race that needs to be finished well. Unlike the fleeting worldly rewards, the reward that God gives will last. I Cor. 9:24 , 25, 26, 27.

    In fact we already have the prize – the upward call of God in Christ Jesus according to Paul in Phil. 3:14. The prize is the knowledge that we did not choose Jesus but He chose us and appointed us to bear fruit that lasts, while assured of His provision, presence and power. John 15:16

  41. oneg2dblu says:

    Good day all…part of a story I read this morning that really touched me so I thought I would share. “Mom taught me good and evil and Dad taught me to obey.”

    In the Garden, where Eve being the first female could be considered the mother of us all, she did teach us good and evil through falling for a false leading and the well crafted words of deception.
    But, if we consider Adam, the first man as our first earthly father, then he failed to show us obedience. I find his particular thinking that he might become like a god, the lesser storyline for me. It is sin’s result upon all humanity as we continue to make disobedient choices when really knowing better.
    Falling for this deceptive doctrine, OSAS, or any other gospel if you will, after our initial salvation, is where we are then falsely taught another possibly, where we then confuse our salvation above any sin, conviction, or condemnation.
    But that is not the Gospel Message that was first taught according to John, or Paul.

    The gospel message is simple and OSAS was not part of it!

    In other words in contrast to Paul’s God-given report, OSAS declares that it is impossible for a real Christian to lose his salvation by falling from grace and no kind of sin can negate our salvation.
    To say that one does not lose his salvation through falling from grace is to say that one can have salvation without Christ. Galatians 5:2 states that for the same people who fall from grace in verse 4, Christ will be of no value at all. This can only mean no salvation.

    1 Corinthians 5:2 “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you will have believed in vain.” NIV

    Paul stated that we are saved by the gospel, but only if we continue to hold firmly to the word he preached, that is, the true gospel. The human responsibility of holding firm to the gospel for salvation’s sake was clearly and openly attached to the original gospel of grace. It therefore, can’t be a violation of true grace to do this. If we don’t hold firmly to the true doctrine of salvation, then we have believed in vain, according to Paul, only a Christian could believe in vain. It is obvious that the Apostle Paul did not believe in OSAS. But, OSAS defenders have no room for Paul’s conditional security for the believer, and they must avoid it. One more Jinx revealed?

    John declares the same in 1 John 2:24, 25 NIV notice the conditional word (IF) in verse 24. The context of verses 21- 27 was false doctrine being taught by false teachers.
    The difference between OSAS and the Lord’s apostles is as great as the kingdom of God is from the lake of fire.

    @royalpalm, great post taking us into the garden and showing us all here how obedience plays out only when we choose to make right choices in the eyes of the Lord. When we choose to gamble with past sin, the world system, or the status quo and its false leadings, we then are really choosing chance and time instead.
    Perhaps Adam thought because Eve was still alive, why shouldn’t he also enjoy and take the Apple of Chance, perhaps not remembering to honor obedience to God first.
    As far as creation, my favorite verse in Genesis 1:1.
    I will say I have taken liberty to change the words around myself, putting God first in all things says to me that the verse works quite well this way, “God in the beginning.”
    So, I do take my pen and make its mark upon the page placing him first!
    Gary

  42. SFDBWV says:

    Patience is a virtue, and the wisdom to know when to speak and when to remain silent a most elusive revelation.

    Pat I was at first confused then pleased during the opening ceremony for the Olympics when the oration was presented in both English and French, the idea seemed to me to be very *Canadian*. I also believe there are no coincidences, the remarks made by Jacques Rogge fit right into your poem very nicely.

    I’m taking a short break in between mowing and Matthew; he enjoyed watching a basketball game between Team USA and Croatia’s women basketball. I do believe that is the first full Basketball game he has watched in the past 13 years.

    Pooh, this has been the most active year ever for the hummingbirds here. Unlike you there in Arizona we only have one variety of Hummingbird, the ruby throated. We always have 2 to 4 visitors a season and usually refill the feeders every 3 or 4 days. But this year I am refilling the feeders every day. I have counted at best 6 birds but trying to count them is like trying to count flies around a dead horse.

    When setting in my swing they often fly over to within a foot or so of my face and say hello, at least that is what I am going to believe.

    Steve

  43. oneg2dblu says:

    Oops… Not 1Corithians 5:2, but 1 Corinthians 15:2.
    Just a typo! :0

    Pooh…could it be? You decide. Sounds like you have already. Or is it really that the word of God when exposed is a little much when it challenges our chosen doctrines, lifestyles, sins, and our chosen worldly beliefs?
    Right now though, I’m just led to expose other Christians of the danger of following any false teaching, or another teaching on salvation after their initial salvation. Doctrine that does not line up correctly with the original word, or promote right living, obedience, or holding firm in what you first were taught, and where many may be led to do otherwise. Warnings in the word are there for such as these.
    I’m only pursuing a calling and not what others may call me, as in trying to gain some attention or exercise any pride. I’m pointing fingers toward God’s word for others, not to be seen as any personal attack and being against them, but to be only for the truth, the true gospel, and for Christ.
    How that is received is up to them, and who and what they believe in, worship, and serve.
    Sorry I’m so big on obedience, but maybe that is the Father in me?

  44. poohpity says:

    The Gospel/Good News is Jesus died on the Cross for the punishment for our sins, was raised in three days and has gone ahead to prepare a place for us in heaven where we can go because of Christ’s sacrifice. That is the message that Jesus commanded us to share of His great mercy.

    Since your life is consumed with OSAS then how can one have time to share the Gospel? If you believe you can loose your salvation then live in that fear but others of us are assured of our salvation and we live that. Romans 8:38,39; 1 John 5:10,11,12,13. Good grief let it go we have to agree to disagree. If that is what the Lord wants us to believe I fully believe that He has the power to teach us, put it into His hands and let go. There is so much more to learn rather than obsessing over that one point, trust God not yourself to enlighten us.

  45. poohpity says:

    That is not the father in you that is you in you!

  46. poohpity says:

    I believe the way I do because of reading God’s Word and knowing Him. I have read of His patience with humankind since the foundation of the world and if God never gave up on seeking us and wanting us to know Him throughout all history then I do not believe He would cast Jesus out of heaven and I live in Christ Jesus and He in me. That is what assures me that I have a place in eternity by nothing I can or can’t do but it is what Jesus has done.

  47. narrowpathseeker says:

    Gary, there are few offenses that I can find in others that I have not been(or still am) guilty of myself at one time or another. Sometimes satan will taunt me with the shame of it all and I find myself trying to compensate by climbing on my high horse to find someone with worse offenses than me. Then the Holy Spirit reminds me gently of my own offenses and I climb down. I think I have finally learned when it is God reminding me or satan reminding me because when it is God I accept it without the need to compensate.

    I STILL find myself getting on that high horse far too frequently. I just don’t stay on as long as I once did. Now, when I find myself caught up in my self righteous views on politics, the modern day Pharisees, and the absurdities that seem so common place today, I just PRAY. I rest in the confidence that God knows what is going on and He will do what He wills to do about it.

    Gary, I have been where you are and could find myself there tomorrow, so I am just sharing how I escape that snare that satan sets for us. I think praying for our enemies or even supposed enemies is a must…..I also consider those who point out my offenses in a rude and condescending manner enemies. I don’t know if they are or not, but rather than debate them, praying for them takes away the anger they tend to ignite. I will continue to pray for you….not as an enemy but as a fellow traveler on a rough path.

  48. oneg2dblu says:

    Narrowpathseeker… again I feel your prayer of healing.
    God is always in control. He always hears our prayers and answers them as well. He alone set salvation in motion. He alone will decide who lives for him or who lives for their perpetuating of sin. Who will enter his kingdom and who will be thrown into the lake of fire.We already know Satan has been released to perpetuate sin with his wiles. He always leads us astray causing many to stumble, many to remain locked in continuous disobedience, shipwrecking their faith through false leading and false teaching. That he is still alive and well and roaming the earth to find whom he may devour.
    Christ has shown us obedience to God is the only weapon He ever chose. But to tell others to choose your favorite three sins to get your point across is the same as saving you are set free to go on sinning? Why not just preach the good news, instead of telling others how free they are to continue to sin, as part of their salvation experience. Isn’t forgiveness of sin enough? Isn’t promoting right living a better message? Obedience and adherence to the word of God a better teaching, and with instant salvation as the starting point of approaching God with a new life of right living? Do you know who first started this OSAS doctrine and how it still unsettles so much of the rest of the bible’s verses, warnings, and words?
    If we can have our salvation without believing this doctrine, but by believing in Christ alone, then we can also not require it as our prideful mark of maturity above others who have not yet reached this unconditional way of salvation. Why promote or teach it either. I rest very well in my relationship with Christ, as a little child of God of you will, and without this doctrine as part of my belief system. I do know this much, it was not Paul or John who preached it! You all are in my prayers as well. Keep your doctrine if you must, and I’ll keep reading God’s words of warning and thinking they are there for a reason, our obedience. That is just one more factor this particular doctrine can not deal with.
    I wonder why, don’t you?
    When the gift of salvation has already been granted, what threat could possibly harm us in being more Christ like and obeying God? Perhaps another lesson by someone else would be better served than Paul’s or John’s simple gospel message of salvation with conditions. What were they thinking?
    In His Love, Gary

  49. oneg2dblu says:

    Claudia… thank you for your loving thoughts and support. I know this is tough going for many here and I applaud their silence, trusting it is not received as a rejection to be well versed and trusting in all the word of God, even the tough words that should challenge us all. Gary

  50. oneg2dblu says:

    narrowpathseeker…. Satan has never set the trap of obedience to God, that is were Christ lives. But continued sinning, saying my belief system excuses it so I’ll not be burdened down by striving, or the convictions of the Holy Spirit, or those opposing words found in scripture that claim there is a work for us to continue in Christ, who is our Salvation. But, I get your point of giving all up to God in prayer. That is where we Christ Followers really live. Prayers to you. Gary

  51. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh… I’m praying for you as well, Thanks!

  52. oneg2dblu says:

    Pooh… yes the love of God is one thing that we can not escape. But my thoughts have all been about salvation and our continued sinning justified by this doctrine, and not the love of God issue. Belief in Christ is our salvation, without Christ we become enemies of God, but the love of God is not lost, we are when we are without Christ. I never question God’s love or feel I’m outside of it, when promoting right living through obedience. Unconditional Salvation taught as OSAS is the problem, it just goes against to many verses. Would you like some more supporting conditional security teaching, or have you had your share? Gary

  53. poohpity says:

    Gary, that is where the problem has always arisen none are preaching the practice of sinning, none or else we would not be the Lord’s. It is the Holy Spirit’s job to convict others of sin not ours as children of God because we all have that same problem. If we point people to read God’s Word and spend time with Him then He will direct them into “HIS” truths. As many people with much wisdom have said 1&1/2 years ago when you started this that it has been something that has caused much division in the church so why not talk of those things that bring unity and healing than those things that separate. December of 2010 is how long you have been on this same subject. Trust control into God’s hands.

  54. narrowpathseeker says:

    Gary, I’m sorry..I am ignorant to much of what is being discussed and haven’t time to read all the posts from the beginning. I was referring to the “trap” of being angered by what others are doing. I TRY to be obedient to what I believe God wants me to do, but I need Him to help me do it…”One Day At A Time..Sweet Jesus”. I fail often, but if Love covers a multitude of sins and if no matter what good we do…without love we are just a big noise, then it seems to me that love is what we should be aiming for. For me anger borders on hate and when I get caught up in what others are doing, I lose sight of the love target. Again…that is what happens to ME and it may not apply to you. Anyway that is all I meant by satan’s trap and I’m sorry if I implied otherwise. I am glad you are being healed

  55. poohpity says:

    Trust the words of Jesus in the Book of John Chapter 17.

  56. SFDBWV says:

    Gary when I said in my earlier remarks that the constant bickering between people has no end except the realization that no one wants another to tell them what to believe, I meant it and believe it.

    Your constant never ending remarks about how you believe is not going to change anything, only producing the groans of many who tire of hearing it.

    Unless you have adopted the belief of our last antagonist, I assume you still believe the writing of Paul to be representative of our Lord.

    Romans 5: 15 calls the sacrifice of Jesus a *gift*, Romans 5: 16 explains that that *gift* is for the judgment of many offences, Romans 5: 17 explains that by one man’s offence death reigned, but the abundance of grace of the *gift* of righteousness shall reign in life, Romans 5: 18 states that as the offence of one man brought judgment of condemnation to all men so that by the righteousness of one the *free gift* came upon all men, Romans 5: 19 clearly states by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one many shall be made righteousness.

    Our salvation, yours and mine is a free gift, neither you nor I can earn it or did we do anything to achieve it.

    The free gift is the sacrifice of Jesus of Nazareth for our sins, in our place, for our punishment.

    This free gift can never be taken away from all who accept it!

    I only say this because I know there are weak believers out there who set upon the fence concerning this matter you tirelessly bring up in every discussion we attempt to have. It is for them that I have responded. I am not trying to convince you of anything, you have already convinced yourself of all you believe you need to know.

    Please Gary let us move on to other discussions and quit beating your dead horse.

    Steve

  57. dja says:

    Thank you, Steve, for your post this morning (and all your posts!). I read this blog, but I feel overwhelmed at times by the back and forth posts, and I just don’t feel up to getting in on it, so I remain silent. I sometimes feel after reading that I have lost the main thought that Mart has written about.

    Thank you also for posting about your hummingbirds. We have had more this year than last, and we never tire of watching these beautiful birds. I have even managed a picture or two of them around the feeder.

    Overcast today in NEPA, and we had some strong winds and rain this past week. Some were without power again, but all is well now. All I know is that the Lord is over all, and all that He does is good! And in that I can rest and have peace within!

    ~Della

  58. SFDBWV says:

    Good morning Della, I think North East PA and here share a lot in weather and apparently yours as well as my appreciation for the gifts God places before us every day.

    I seen last evening that Michael Phelps didn’t do as well in this Olympic effort as was expected of him. I wondered as I seen the results whose pride was it that was hit the hardest?

    Watching the interviews it was always the interviewers who lavished praise upon young Mr. Phelps, who repeatedly said he would do his best.

    The one thing any good coach can recognize is whether a team member gives all he can or not.

    I have always thought the better person is the one who gives 100% effort no matter the outcome as compared to the one who is lackadaisical in their performance.

    I may never know who gives and who does not their all and all in their performance, but as many have already stated to me all of these young people are winners who give all they can.

    I didn’t stay up last night to watch the replay of the events of the day, but did see one gymnast from England cry after giving a stellar performance and quickly understood his emotion; I think that is what makes the Olympics special.

    Steve

  59. confeticat says:

    This blog has a lot of flies swarming around a dead horse, Steve.

  60. SFDBWV says:

    Good morning Confeticat, I hope you and your Siamese cat are enjoying the day.

    Is this your first cat or have you always kept cats as pets?

    Our friend Bob in England has a black one with a stare that is hypnotic.

    Steve

  61. phpatato says:

    Steve

    You commented: “Pat I was at first confused then pleased during the opening ceremony for the Olympics when the oration was presented in both English and French, the idea seemed to me to be very *Canadian*.

    Your idea of English and French being Canadian is a good one. They are the Official languages in Canada. Over the years, it has been and still is a point of contention for many – the “cost” of going bilingual was one point. It threatened our unity (and in ways still does) when it pit the Province of Quebec against the rest of the country with Quebec wanting to separate from Canada. That threat will never die in my opinion.

    But I was surprised when I heard French being spoken at the olympics and wondered why. Here is the best answer to that with what I could find:

    French and English are the official languages of the Olympic Charter. However, during IOC sessions, the Olympic Charter is translated into German, Spanish, Russian, and Arabic. If, at any time, there is a discrepancy between versions of the text, the French text prevails.

    French as a foreign language is the second most frequently taught language in the world after English. It is spoken as an official language in 33 countries around the world and is the only language other than English spoken on five continents. Therefore, French and English are the only two global languages.

    When deciding on a foreign language for work or school, French is the language that will give you the most choices later on in your studies or your career.

    French, along with English, is the official working language of:

    The United Nations
    UNESCO
    The International Monetary Fund
    The International Labour Bureau
    The International Olympic Committee
    The 31-member Council of Europe
    The European Community
    French is one of the official languages of:

    Postal services throughout the world
    The International Red Cross

    Much for similar reasons, Canada went to the metric system. It’s considered the universal system for measurement worldwide. I was (my generation) caught in the crossfire. I am guilty of still ordering sliced deli meat by the pound instead of grams. lol

  62. poohpity says:

    Jesus said, “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven” Matt 5:3. We do not know all that we think we know and yes it is so true what Mart said of Paul, “Paul urged his readers not to nurse exaggerated opinions of themselves” Romans 12:3. I think Isaiah also brought knowledge to that fact as well in Isaiah 52:7 it is not us that will sit on the throne it is still our God who reigns. He is faithful even when we were not by thinking more highly of ourselves, we will all one day come on bended knee before our maker and ask for forgiveness because we talked and argued about things that are more glorious than anything we can even imagine.

  63. poohpity says:

    confeticat, I am guilty of beating a dead horse myself and more than once I might add, many times over many years but have found I really do not like getting spit in my face from spitting into the wind, it changes nothing, in fact it just makes things worse, I know I have the scars to prove it.

  64. foreverblessed says:

    Pooh, I read the admonition somewhere, can’t find it anymore, but try to say it in my own words:
    “If somebodies doing (or in this case writing) is irritating you, do not try to change that person, but look to the part in yourself that is being agitated by that person. And that part needs to be cleansed by God.”
    I thought this was a good advice.
    It is also called “overcome” or “win the price”.
    Hard to do, but God promised us all His help we need, only we can ask for it.
    I am not saying this out of pride, because I am at the moment busy with the same overcoming.
    God loves all of us, God bless you all, and make you mighty in His strength

  65. poohpity says:

    There have been a few times I have felt frustrated but more than that I have frustrated others by asking to stay on topic or have been accused of pride for referring people to read the bible. In all the counseling I have been through I do not blame my feelings on others and I will look at things that frustrate me and find that is really an area I need to work on. You know the whole when you point a finger at others you usually have three pointing back at you. (Matt 7:1-5NLT) Yep the Lord has much work to do with me yet and Praise God He does not give up on making me better it is just really hard looking in the mirror and then I forget when I walk away.

    Have a good day got to get to church, nothing like corporate worship and teaching. :-) So much to learn so little time.

  66. oneg2dblu says:

    Good day… Today’s ODB brings us again to a dead horse, those very verses that tell us we “MUST” do something, or we have believed in vain. What do you read as the condition Paul cited? I’m asking you all, in the honesty of your Christ filled hearts,
    If there is ANY possibility that this is a conditional statement, and makes preaching, teaching, and believing unconditional security instead, fall flat on its face. If you believe otherwise, “you have believed in vain.”
    I never originated that thought, and it is no dead horse to me!
    We know what it was for Paul. It was his confession that he used much effort, and yes, Christ in him provided that help, no question, but he remained in the race, he pressed forward to the goal set before him, he would not fall victim to any other doctrine, where it’s preachers like Charles Stanley says,” Salvation can not be lost once received, No matter what!”
    No matter what Paul thinks, no matter what over a hundred verses claim, and no matter what Gary with all his pride filled anger at us, (whoever told you that lie was not Christ in you either)but it is what some will believe anyhow.
    I’m not pointing at any of you to take away anything from you, but in the love and compassion of Christ in me, do I write even this now showing you actual scripture, not well intentioned preachers or their interpretations, or a concordance’s leading, (a place where we should never get our doctrine), but just shear warnings in God’s word, now being called the dead horse.
    Titus 1:9 NIV “He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught…, (so that he can beat a dead horse? No!)
    So that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.”
    Titus 2:1 NIV “You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.”
    That is not found of the in many in vogue churches of today who support unconditional security, or OSAS, NO matter what!
    Is the Parable of the fig tree a dead horse to you?
    Luke 13:8 NIV
    “Sir the man replied, leave it alone for one more year,
    and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it. If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not than cut it down.”
    So, even the condition of bearing fruit plays as a dead horse, to those who now believe otherwise.
    But that fig trees life was very conditional.
    Matthew 13:21 NIV “But since it has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.”
    Christ’s teaching in the Parable of the Sower the only scriptural meaning of fall away “in context” is to die as evidenced by the withered plants. To fall away is equated to ceasing to believe. The seed (the word of God) produced (spiritual life), for there was a living plant that afterwards withered away, or as Jesus taught, such “Believe for a while, but in time of testing, they fall way.”
    Meaning one can suffer the total loss of his spiritual life, which becomes unbelief and death. So, it can happen according to the teachings of Jesus, there was real spiritual life (produced by the word of God), life producing faith, faith that doesn’t continue, as evident in the words, “believe for a while.”
    But that also does not work, according the OSAS doctrine. That presents another condition, aother problem!
    Here’s another condition, OSAS do not like to address, (to endure).
    Matthew 24; 12, 13 “Because of the increase in wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” Whose words are those?
    To me these are the days of increased wickedness, even in the churches that preach nothing you can do will save you. Another condition and another problem! We must endure.
    There are so many other verses that stand opposed to the “no conditions exist” that will cause you to fall way, or lose your salvation.

    If you’ve read and studied the whole word of God and you still can find “no conditions” in it that are your part, any responsibility to maintain faith, retain, or reproduce such a message, then OSAS is all yours.

    Steve… thanks for sharing. We already agree initial salvation is a gift of God, not ever earned through any human effort, so why keep beating that issue? Where we disagree is in what it takes to maintain, to retain, and to hold firm, that which you first believed. There clearly are conditions, and that is not anything other than believing in Christ. It is persecution that can threaten even our belief it is persecution that will cause many to fall away in the end of times, another true gospel message, supported well by scripture which you must not believe, if you believe in OSAS.
    No problem, I’ll shut my mouth now, and await all your response and verses, that say differently but it will be equally opposed by the very words of God found only in the bible. Not standing against you, but written for you. If you could only believe them as written for a purpose, instead of blindly following a doctrine of unconditional security,
    You would lose nothing, but gain much! In His Love, Gary

  67. poohpity says:

    The wonderful passion and purpose of Christ was to seek and save the lost Luke 19:10 which is the same message as seen throughout all the pages of the bible. God never gave up on Israel or any human being alive on this earth.
    Jesus expressed this purpose with the parable of the lost sheep in Luke 15:4-7. God is illogical because he left the ninety nine to find one lost person, He never gives up on us by actively pursuing us. He is relentless to search for the lost and never gives up on trying to save all peoples of the world. Yes people can fall away but our loving, passionate and patient Lord will search them out until they come back so that none will perish (2 Peter 3:9NLT).

  68. foreverblessed says:

    This is off topic, but in reponse to Gary.
    1 Corinthians `5:2 By this gospel you are saved,(C) if you hold firmly(D) to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
    (There is also Rom11:22, Col 1:23, Hebrews 3:6)

    Gary, this verse is talking to me, and what I do read in it: is that when you hold on to the word, then there is no problem. I want to hold on the the faith, I do not want to let it go.
    And God promised me to help me as many stars as there are in heaven, as many sand particles on earth, that’s how much God will stand by me.
    So why tell a person: You must believe you can lose your salvation other wise you will lose it? While it is not a problem when you really want to hold on to the Word.
    If a person holds on to the word, even if he does not believe he can lose his salvation, it does not matter, because he holds on to the word, It is a non issue.
    Do you get what want to say?

    if I hold on to the word in fear of losing it, where is the essence ot the verse:
    Perfect love drives out fear?
    If we are in the perfect love of God, there is no fear.
    Today at church this was read, 1 John 4:18
    Or do I hold on to Jesus, because I love Him, not because I fear Him.
    It is the bond of love.

    I also want to tell you, that I am in the process of determining not to read your comments anymore, if you keep coming back with this issue.
    Why don’t you start your own blog? Then everybody who joins is doing so willingly, while here we are busy with other subjects. The ones who really want to hold on to Jesus.

  69. oneg2dblu says:

    foreverblessed… how will you know I’m back on the old dead horse issue, if you don’t read my comments? Just a thought… I’ll save you the work and not post again. Sorry I’ve ruined your experience here, and of course all the others I’ve worn thin, with my harsh tone and challenging verses.
    Pooh… now I’ll have much more time on my hands, heck I may even get a life! If it was God’s intention that none should perish, why the flood?
    Why to places of eternity, one being heaven and the other earth. :)
    Yeah, that parable is a good one, too bad the ones I gave weren’t so good for you! :(

    God Bless you all, I’ll not cease praying for you all. “Gary the dead horse beater!”

    Got to go fill my birdbath again the thermometer says one hundred degrees out there. :0

  70. Bill says:

    Gary,

    I’m not sure foreverblessed or pooh or anyone else is telling you (a) that you’re not wanted around here (physically or emotionally), or that (b) your comments aren’t as valid as everyone else’s.

    I think the challenge for us is that this forum isn’t a coffee shop or a pizza parlor or a living room or a kitchen table. We’re not physically together. We’re not face to face. We’re not even necessarily in real time with these comments. It’s like conversing over a CB radio. Remember those?

    “Foreverblessed, I’m thinking I have an issue with your interpretation of this particular verse. Over.”

    “Yeah, Gary. But think about this, this and this. Over.”

    “This is pooh checking in. I’m lost. Over.”

    “Hi, everyone. confeticat here. I’d like to talk about something else. Over.”

    “Confeticat, what? Over.”

    “Gary, Bill here. I’m not sure foreverblessed or pooh or anyone else is telling you (a) that you’re not wanted around here…Over.”

    The kinds of conversations we’d all like to have would be better if we were all in the same room, having a cold beverage (or a hot one), munching on peanuts, and able to see the passion or questions or impatience to jump in registering on faces right in front of us.

    Also, it would be beneficial if we were able to walk up to someone, put our arm around him or her, and say, “I don’t think I understand you right now, brother. But I want you to know I love you. Tell me again what you’re trying to say. I’ll listen more closely this time.”

    So it’s not you, Gary. It’s not you confeticat. It’s not you pooh. It’s not you foreverblessed. It’s not you Mart. It’s not you Bill. It’s the limitations of the Internet, and of time in our “real” lives.

    In short, please don’t go away. Stick around. I vote we table this particular topic. But stay close and patient for the next one Mart shares with us.

    Remember: we’re all family here. We shouldn’t let disagreements separate us or cause us to be sad or angry.

    Just my two cents. Y’all are free to do what you think is best.

    Bill

  71. foreverblessed says:

    Thanks Bill, that was very good, indeed, Gary, I did not say you had to leave, please join in here, and join the topics. And if God told you to warn, then do so, but ask Him how, and in what manner. But I pray for you first, that you live in His love, that you live out of that love, and not fear of being thrown in hell. It is love that is the motivating factor of God. And I want to live in that love.

    Like, if Pooh would tell us every comment she made that we had to read the whole bible every year, and unless you read it, then *&#, you would give the same advice: get over it, and join the topic as presented.

  72. poohpity says:

    You fit right in Bill, rofl!!!

  73. poohpity says:

    And the topic was what??? lol!!!

  74. poohpity says:

    God wants you to know Him read the bible and look at what happens when you don’t.;-)

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