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Sense and Nonsense

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At the end of the day…

Imagine a world of  choice without consequence.

Or picture the opposite: a world where immediate results always reflected the character of decisions made.

Would either of the above be better for us  than a world where evil, reckless, or negligent acts can seem to turn out fine, while honorable acts seem more likely to be punished?

Which of the above resonates with our reality… and the world described in the Bible?

Seems to me that these are the kind of questions that can be weighed as we try to understand—and to decide whether we are willing to accept—the explanation that the Bible  gives for why life so often does, and doesn’t,  make sense. (Gen 2:17)


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21 Responses to “Sense and Nonsense”

  1. bubbles says:

    Good morning.

    Life does not make sense. However God is in control and can be trusted no matter what happens. It would be satisfying to understand everything, but things to not work that way.

    A world of immediate results for actions would be a world without mercy. I am thankful that our Heavenly Father is a God of compassion and allows us to make mistakes without immediate results for the poor choices.

  2. BruceC says:

    Mart I don’t think we are truly capable of “making sense” of all that we see and experience in life. Only God can do that as He alone sees the end from the beginning. We are called to trust Him and although we do not do a very good job of it many times; that is basically what we need to do. Our anxiety and gut- wrenching changes nothing but our health and relationships at times. I am not saying that we are to do nothing; just that we cannot do it all.
    I don’t even want to imagine what it would be like if every sin I have committed had an immediate response.
    As bubbles stated; where would that leave mercy and grace. Sometimes I think we get caught up in the notion that mercy and grace have degrees. Like some are more deserving of them by a “certain degree” than others because we think our sins are less serious. In reality I am no more deserving of God’s mercy and grace than Ted Bundy; because no person is deserving of it.

    BruceC
    Soli Deo Gloria!

  3. SFDBWV says:

    A world without consequences is exactly how many operate here in this world, trusting their wit or power or position to keep them safe for repercussions.

    A world without consequences is close to capturing the ideology of the majority of the youth of the 60’s.

    A world without consequences sounds like a recipe for the privileged and the stupid.

    A world of immediate results reflecting the character of our choices seems to me to be in operation already.

    Without mercy and without hesitation Adam was punished and we all with him.

    Do you Mart see the world as a place where “evil, reckless, or negligent acts can seem to turn out fine, while honorable acts seem more likely to be punished?”

    Here in lay the dividing point between not only believers, but a division within believers.

    In the observations of life around us we see too many get away with every type of wrong doing; the only satisfaction being when they get caught by enforcers of our own laws and punished. That in itself being the only deterrent for committing such wrongs ourselves the fear of being caught.

    Believers in God also believe He will right all wrongs; it is how we believe He will do it where the division continues.

    Included in the observation of life around us are the honorable good people and their obedience to God and man’s laws and the horrible and unfair fate many of them suffer.

    It may begin with how we see right and wrong, honorable and un-honorable differently.

    However why is it we decide to be Christian? Is it to keep us from eternal punishment beyond this life? Or is it so we can be better people?

    Does the sacrifice of Jesus let off all those people who got by with evil acts their entire lives, so that even in an afterlife they are not punished? Or does His sacrifice show us we have to learn to forgive.

    Is the truly only hope for some seen in an afterlife not in this life or this world? Or is it each hour, each day we expect rescue from whatever evil we suffer under from God?

    Should we keep contending with why?

    I have heard some *thinkers* say we are already in hell as it is how they see life here and now in this world, believing how could it be worse than it is already for many.

    Jesus gives us hope, this is why many come to Him as their last chance at having *hope*, real spiritual death comes when hope is lost and this the worst hell I have seen anyone in, hopelessness.

    Steve

  4. bullwinkle says:

    We have probably all heard the phrase, “No good deed goes unpunished”. That is how Mart’s comments struck me. I don’t subscribe to that philosophy. Most of my life I had no relationship with Jesus. Though I was raised in church, I never heard the gospel. What joy there is in knowing that my eternity is secure in Him. What joy there is in living “right”. Do I do it well, NO, but as bubbles states, His grace allows me to turn back to God and find the peace that only He can offer.

  5. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends —

    How can we finite humans plough the mighty waters of being? Your illustration, “at the end of the day,” is striking because it directs my thinking toward the shift in the way food is grown, processed, delivered and consumed. Decades ago we had a saying: “If you eat, you are involved in agriculture.”

    What made sense in working the land and taking food to market a century ago in the US is now non-sensical. Farms have become more and more sophisticated and huge. In this way, farmers have a hope of success in the marketplace. Out of this has grown the unfortunate reality of “food deserts” where only refined and prepackaged foods are available. The urban setting is notorious for these food deserts.

    Yet, there is a strong response — even a reaction — to this mechanization and applied science in agriculture. Ordinary people have combined their small efforts and resources in urban areas, in the suburbs and even in the country. They are tilling up and planting empty lots, back yards and donated fields to plant vegetable gardens to feed families and neighborhoods. This is an oasis in the food desert.

    I am not certain how to apply Genesis 2:17 to the “sense and non-sense” of feeding people literally, as I have tried to outline briefly, except in context: “15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” (Gen 2:15-17)

    What is happening to family farms at the end of the day? They are being sold off to developers so that in many cases the land is being taken out of food production,

    There are consequences both long and short-term in this dynamic.

    Yours,
    Maru

    PS Sorry I could not be more lofty and ontological in my contribution. :o)

  6. remarutho says:

    Cut and pasted in the NIV in my Scripture cited from Genesis: “You may eat” (CEV) translated “You are free to eat” (NIV)

    Perhaps all the freedom humans enjoy is merely by permission (“you may”) of our Creator God. Maru

  7. Artle says:

    Something occurred to me as I read the scripture reference; Adam and Eve were like little children in their relationship with God before the deceiver stepped into the garden. Jesus says “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 18:1-5). Adam and Eve became unlike children and were cast out. Little children; innocence; life is so good; and then we grow up, learn about good and evil, struggle with it in our lesser minds, hopefully hear the Gospel from someone, and then we start the journey back to the beginning; back to being little children in the garden; back to not knowing or worrying about good and evil.

  8. tracey5tgbtg says:

    The first image that came to my mind regarding choices with no consequences is a child who is given whatever they want and never punished or disciplined in any way. A child like that is profoundly unhappy and never satisfied. It gets harder to envision an adult like that because eventually a continual life of never facing consequences and being able to choose whatever, whenever will end up with that person hitting bottom. Be it jail or death, accidental or suicide.

    It’s especially easy to see in the rich and famous because their actions are on display and no one holds them accountable, until they are in a really bad place.

    The opposite extreme of immediate consequences for every choice made me think of Pavlovian training. Creatures who are exposed to rewards and punishments immediately for behaviors will learn to behave a certain way, but it is from a self-preservation instinct and not from a true understanding of why they should or should not do something.

    There are consequences, but they are not immediate. As Bubbles put it, God is in control and He can be trusted.

    God in His wisdom knows better than we do. He is the potter, we are the clay and His timing and teaching are perfect. His mercy is great, yet He disciplines those He loves.

  9. oneg2dblu says:

    Good morning all… often quote my pastor,”Choose to sin, choose to suffer.”
    This as well, “If sin was not enjoyable, and did not bring immediate gratification, we would probably not be so tempted by it, and then choose to do it.”

    So, to me, there is an immediate consequence to our sin and our actions, it feels good, it satisfies for the moment, it pleasures our evil wanter.

    I believe, it also sepearates us from God.

    Unless you aspire to the “nothing separates” group, then you may falsely feel a sense of godliness or closeness to God, when your stealing, telling your lies, gossiping, loving others for your wrong motives, even killing another for your own sick justification, and all the other reckless, wonton, thoughtless, coniving, contriving things that humanity is capable of, and has hidden away in their sinfilled, pleasure seeking hearts.
    That is all part the human condition, and that is the why, of why we choose to do evil… we seek its immediate consequences.
    But, those are the earthly things that represent where we now live, and we being a higher called and saved people, try to also live on that different plain or place that is called to walking on a higher ground than where we actually tread.
    Can we of our own finding or thinking ever truly elevate ourselves?
    Yes, we unfortunately can!
    But if we do, it is nothing other than sin served just the way we like it.
    Pooh calls it so rightfully by its proper name, pride.
    Pride is the only thing that self elevates.
    However, making right choices tend to ground us more, make level the playing field, and certainly help us to ground those around us.
    Makimg more godly choices, which are not in our given nature but can be our choice as well, elevate us in both the spiritual and the eternal.
    Choose to sin and you choose to suffer.
    If not in the immediate sense, certainly later.

    Choose to constantly put unhealthy things in your body for instance, and even though you may get away with it for a while, it usually has many long term consequences.
    Put the wrong things in your mind, what you choose to use in your speech, your reading, listening, tv and other forms of what may seem to you as innocent and popualr today, or just as entertainment, and the resultant longer effects will play their part.

    If those choices are yours today as well, they may not have elevated you closer to any higher spiritual or eternal consequence.

    Unless, you think you are saved from all that downward spiraling stuff already and it will have no effect, and there my dear virgin is where you may just boldly enter in at your own peril.

    I would challenge you in this ungodly entertainment of the masses today, wondering only this, by following what, and by who’s will do you now enter?

    What fuels your lamp other than the corrupted thoughts of another virgin thinker, the evil one, who also tries to enter without first being called. He tempts!

    “No temptation dear virgin, has been placed within your grasp that is not common to all others, but, if you only will allow God to keep your choices higher, He will elevate you above them.
    That is where His Will is grounded for you.
    Be Blessed,
    Gary

  10. oneg2dblu says:

    Maru… lofty and ontological… now there, in the reality my friends, is found the higher ground.
    When we get real with our position and relationship with God, verses our relationship with this downward spiralling world, that makes our choices ever closer to His Will as well.

  11. oneg2dblu says:

    If we come to Christ as childern come to a natural father, we would come already trusting that whatever He has instore for us, would also be for the good of those who love Him.

    Whether it be a pat on the head given in praise, or the harsh pat on bottom as correction, it is all given in love, and for our good.

    We as children can not ever know all the things our parents did and suffered for us, just to have this good, freely given to those who they raise up as their children.
    We play while they work, we sleep while they watch over us, we grow as they provide, we learn as they show us how.

    Our Abba Father Always Knows Best!

  12. remarutho says:

    I find it is complicated to keep it simple, and to separate the sense from the non-sense!

    “For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’”

    “For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another…everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.”

    Blessings,
    Maru

  13. bubbles says:

    We are humans, and we always would like to know the “why”. But if the “why” is pursued, and we do not receive answers, it can or could turn into bitterness.

  14. poohpity says:

    For me Mart the one where, “evil, reckless, or negligent acts can seem to turn out fine, while honorable acts seem more likely to be punished” seems to be the reality I see and the world most often is found in the Bible. That not only happened to the prophets but to Jesus. Early in his life it happened to Jacob and to Joseph. Look at the people who take God’s Word to those around the world and to those who truly recognize who they are before Christ their lives are filled with harsh treatment and persecution.

    I am not talking about those who have horrible behavior like religious zealots and get mistreated, I am talking about those who are kind, gentle and their missions is to translate the bible, share God’s real message of salvation, etc.. Look at the things that happened to the disciples, Paul, John, Peter, etc.

  15. belleu says:

    My husband and I read the question and the comments this morning. My husband said he had some questions answered here. We really appreciated this. Thanks everyone!

  16. cbrown says:

    This week I had a chance to fellowship with a Christian inmate. In the discussion he shared that he had a new cell mate who is very frustrating. The inmate is new and is asking many questions about what is prison like? He says that he is a Christian. But the inmate doubts it because he does not see fruit. The cell mate says that when he gets out he needs to get $5000 quickly so that he can get the felony record expunged from his record.The next time I share with my friend we are going to discuss the following verses.
    Ephesians 6:14-16

    New International Version (NIV)

    14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.

  17. fadingman says:

    I think we can learn something about God from living in a world with delayed consequences. Immediate punishment for crime has it’s advantages and disadvantages, depending on God’s ultimate goal.

    If His goal is only justice, than immediate consequences are the way to go. But while we would learn about His righteousness and holiness, we would know nothing of His grace, mercy, long-suffering, love, desire for reconciliation, etc. (2 Peter 3:9)

    If His goal is only reconciliation, with no consequences, then we would know nothing of God’s righteousness, goodness (in a moral sense), holiness, etc. We would not know of God’s desire that we be like Him.

    God wants us to know Him in His fullness – as much as we are able.

    Sometimes consequences are immediate, but most times they are not. Sometimes they don’t happen in this life at all. But eventually justice will be served (Revelation 20:11-15)

    Andrew

  18. poohpity says:

    It does not make sense when one is insulted or falsely accused because of Jesus that is considered a blessing. Or when someone does something bad to you to return it with something good. If someone takes something from you give them more. If someone asks you to do something for them do a little more than they had asked. When we are going through tough times count it all joy. Sounds like nonsense.

    It does not make any sense to me that even while I was far away from God and could careless if He even existed even considered His enemy that He still went to Calvary. I am so glad we do not need to make sense of so many things about God because they are so far from what we humanly can understand but that is where faith comes in.

  19. cbrown says:

    On Sept 1 at 8:58 AM I shared about 2 inmates that are in prison for past bad decisions.They both profess to be Christians.One is studying his Bible and looking to God for solutions to how to live his life. The other is reading the Bible but still trying to figure out how to make things right through nonsensical solutions. Possibly commit a felony when he gets out to get the money to expunge the previous felony conviction from his permanent record. God has said that if we confess our sins he will expunge them from the true permanent record 1John 1:9. He also says to put our trust in Him and gives us Scripture like Psalm 23 to light our path.

    A Psalm of David. Psalm 23

    The Lord is my shepherd,
    I [a]shall not want.
    2 He makes me lie down in green pastures;
    He leads me beside [b]quiet waters.
    3 He restores my soul;
    He guides me in the [c]paths of righteousness
    For His name’s sake.
    4 Even though I walk through the [d]valley of the shadow of death,
    I fear no [e]evil, for You are with me;
    Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
    5 You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies;
    You [f]have anointed my head with oil;
    My cup overflows.
    6 [g]Surely goodness and lovingkindness will follow me all the days of my life,
    And I will [h]dwell in the house of the Lord [i]forever.

  20. remarutho says:

    Good Morning All —

    From over this way, Cbrown,I am hearing some disappointment. You are keeping faithful to bring Bible study into the house. Finally, the inmate with the self-made plan will make a choice — a new choice or a choice that holds fast to the old way.

    It seems to me we all behave in similar, unfortunate ways. That “solo-flight” thinking (as though trusting God would be weak or wrong) has to die with the old (wo)man. Will pray for the Holy Spirit to do a work in the second inmate you mention. My experience is that we can bring the message, pray and encourage — but, sadly, not make the decision for somebody else.

    Thank-you for holding steady in the Gospel project!

    Yours,
    Maru

  21. poohpity says:

    cbrown, I know from my own life that I had accepted Christ when I was young 9 but I still went through my 21 years on the street. I do not know how God does things but I do know that He does. There seems to be many who do not look to much different than they did before but we have to be patient with how the Lord works in one’s life because ofter all His is the potter and He can take the lump of clay off the wheel several times as He fashions it into the beautiful vessel He has in mind. Isaiah 64:8 NIV; Jeremiah 18:4 NIV

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