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Getting Personal

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What is it?

I’ve been involved in some conversations the last few days that might have a bearing on what we’ve been trying to work through together.

One of those discussions had to do with the way the Scriptures point us—sometimes in very subtle ways— to Christ, and to our need of the God he reveals. For example, when the New Testament letter to the Hebrews says that the word of God is living, powerful, and sharper than a two edged sword… (Heb 4:12), it surprisingly uses a personal pronoun in the very next verse (Heb 4:13) to further describe that “Word.” This fits with the overall letter to the Hebrews that, from its introduction, moves us from the lesser to the greater (in this case from the collective written word to the living Word/Christ).

The other discussion I’m thinking of had to do with what it takes to apply the written words of Scripture to our lives. We were talking about how important it is to find the timeless intent and principle within a text rather than just assuming that was written to someone else a long time ago can be literally applied to ourselves.

But at that point we also spent some time talking about how misleading it can be to settle for the resulting pursuit of principles in a way that can so easily morph into a kind of law-based living (Gal 3:1-5).

By contrast, if we think of “the word of God” as a collective self-revelation of the God who is exposing our own hearts and need of him, so that we will learn to love him, one another, and even our enemy—we can then begin feeding not only on words that can quickly divide us—but on the personal Word who nourishes us (and enables us) with the graciousness and kindness of God (1Peter 2:1-3).

Or is my attempt to express what I think is the ultimate kind of getting personal… clear as mud…? :-)

PS I took the picture above years ago in Amman, Jordan, which is where I also saw a re-enactment of Roman occupiers (previous post). Am guessing that the round, stone bowl in the foreground is the reconstructed remains of a fountain.


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67 Responses to “Getting Personal”

  1. BruceC says:

    I often wonder if many times we think too much. By that I mean that we over-intellectualize just about all Scripture. By looking too deep at times maybe we look past the point or the real intent and meaning. When I look at the people that Christ dealt with for the most part these folks were not educated much if at all. He told then to love God with their entire being and to love one another as He loved us. Paul was a highly educated man and yet he dealt with many, many people that weren’t.
    Now there is nothing wrong with a great education and having much knowledge and if used rightly is truly a gift from God for the person who has received it. But I wonder if we sometimes pursue knowledge more for the pursuit; like a contest or race. I look about at our land today and we have more knowledge and education that ever before and yet look at where we are as a nation. Look what the Pharisees did with the knowledge of the law they had studied for so long.
    I think that oft times these “debates” that can get overly hot come from a deep desire within us(human nature) to show a superiority of knowledge over another; do they not?
    Maybe in all this we miss much of the simplicity of the Word that was given for such a “simple” (meaning not really that smart at all) creature as ourselves?

    BruceC
    Soli Deo Gloria!

  2. SFDBWV says:

    A greater division in the earthly body of Christ I can not imagine greater than that between Catholicism and Protestantism.

    I do wish here in this group of participants we had someone who could speak for the Catholic faith and it not be left to those of us who only judge them for not thinking like us.

    Forgive me for my ignorance but let me continue; Jesus said blessed are the poor in spirit (humble), they that mourn (compassionate), the meek (passive/non-aggressive), they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness (recognize right from wrong and live a holy life), are the merciful (forgiving), pure in heart (heart and spirit of Jesus), the peacemakers (healers), those who are persecuted for righteousness and for His sake (defenders of their faith).

    As I look into the “Beatitudes” I strain to find it a blessing to take up a life of dissecting Scripture and believing we can understand all it contains.

    What I can see is that some people need only “believe” and “receive” to be content.

    What I have learned is that the search for knowledge has no end, can be frustrating as well as rewarding, but must be done with the attitude that whatever learned needs to be applied in the heart of the Beatitudes.

    Jesus ask what is it worth to gain the whole world and lose your soul. If you learn every jot and tittle of Scripture and don’t apply it to your life, of what value is it?

    I think the happiest Christian people may be those who don’t think, just believe, pray and receive Christ for it, without having to know everything else.

    Steve

  3. Artle says:

    This is my personal observation from life (Ecclesiastes 1:18 NASB)

    Misunderstandings happen in most everyday conversations; one person’s idea does not get entirely into another person’s mind. Most of the time, poor communication is no big deal, because it really does not matter; you just say to yourself, “I wonder what that meant”, and move on. When the topic is important to us, we want to understand and want everyone to understand us, because if they understand us and agree, it feels good.

    Disagreements, even of the slightest degree, are more likely to wound when discussing something dear to the heart. Then it is not just that someone does not understand, but they understand wrong. Passionate people, who believe they are right, seem to have no choice but try and fix the other person.

    The good news is Christians do not need to fix each other, because the Holy Spirit does all heart maintenance and tuning required. The moment you try to fix a Christian, you are trying to step over the Holy Spirit. Now the Holy Spirit may nudge you toward helping someone, but it should never be your idea; it should never be about you and what you need to fix in someone else. If in doubt, walk away.

    Christians have a real need to help others, and nobody is immune from the gotta-fix-the-other-person disorder, but knowing The Holy Spirit is on the job helps.

  4. bubbles says:

    We must think about what God is telling us, not just believe but DO what is says. What good is it to know the Word if it is not in our daily lives?

    We need to read and learn every day; showing what we believe in our lives.

  5. tracey5tgbtg says:

    What speaks to me in this opening topic is Mart’s comment, “…but on the personal Word who nourishes us (and enables us) with the graciousness and kindness of God (1Peter 2:1-3).”

    That is what reading the Bible is to me. Food. Not food for my flesh, but food for my soul. I think reading the Word of God is personal. It applies to the reader as they are reading it. Not just rules to live by, but life itself.

    I especially love the phrase, “now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.”

    Luke 4:4 Jesus answered, “It is written: Man does not live by bread alone.” Jesus is the bread of heaven.

    Psalm 34:8 Taste and see that the Lord is good!

    Artle – appreciated your comment. Very insightful. I am not immune to the gotta-fix-the-other-person disorder. I believe it comes from a heart that is trying so hard to fix itself and finds relief in finding flaws in others. Yes, trusting Jesus, trusting the Holy Spirit to work in us and others is the answer.

  6. Artle says:

    The only thing we need to share with another is what they need, and the only thing they need is Jesus. Once they have Jesus, it is He who guides them, and what He desires, He will lay on their heart. If we ask anything else of them, we are adding to the requirements not meant to be. If we ask them to know this, be this, believe this, have this faith, feed the poor, tithe, attend this, read that, do this or do that, we are pushing aside the Grace of God and the Gospel of Christ and substituting the gospel of our poor understanding.

  7. remarutho says:

    Good Morning BTA Friends –

    Mart, you wrote:

    “By contrast, if we think of “the word of God” as a collective self-revelation of the God who is exposing our own hearts and need of him, so that we will learn to love him, one another, and even our enemy—we can then begin feeding not only on words that can quickly divide us—but on the personal Word who nourishes us (and enables us) with the graciousness and kindness of God (1Peter 2:1-3).”

    When we come to this crossing (cross?) in the road, it seems to me we can there kneel down and ask God in Christ to bring us to newness of life. It must become clear to each of us – and all of us – that the death of the old (wo)man is the requirement for taking the Jesus-path. This process of maturing and growing up into Christ applies to young, middle aged and old saints at all times. Holiness folks call it the second blessing — though with true repentance, it could turn out to be the ten thousandth blessing.

    It may be that we can only bring the pure love of Christ to those around us – significant others, family, neighbors, congregation, town, county, nation and world – when we ourselves have died to that collection of unfortunate traits Peter lists in verse one in the passage you cite, Mart. How gently and lovingly Jesus has come to me, urging me to clean up my act. It is a work in progress…

    Yours,
    Maru

    PS Thanks for the correction on the nationality of the reenactment group in the photo from your previous post, Mart. :o)

  8. swwagner says:

    I remember a simple Sunday school lesson for children I heard years ago. The teacher was talking to the children about the birth of Jesus. She said, “Jesus lived in heaven with his father before he came to be a little baby in the manger.When Jesus lived in heaven his name was Word.” (As in the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.)

    I can’t remember now what else she said, but it was a simple and wonderful view of how the written word and the living word are the same thing. I have repeated that phrase to others for many years now and it is so fun to watch the “light bulb” come on no matter which aspect of Christ you are discussing.

    I will be away for about a month as my mother fell and needs some help with her recovery. I will try to check in on borrowed computers as I am able.

    Sheryl

  9. Mart De Haan says:

    Maru,
    I knew you recognized it :-)…

  10. BruceC says:

    Artle,

    That gotta-fix-the-other-person disorder you speak of is spot on. It’s just our old human nature trying to take the credit (there’s that pride thing again) for being the one that changed another person’s life; when in reality only God can from the inside.

    When I ponder the Word many things come to mind. It’s Christ. It’s God’s revelation of Who He is. It’s an owner’s manual for how to live life. It’s the Lord’s love letter to all people. It’s a warning to all people. It’s God’s escape plan for us and a His promise of what is ahead for all who believe. I agree with Mart that if we look at just Biblical principles then that can lead to legalism in a way; but yet there are principles that can be learned from. It is more than just one thing to all. But it is all Jesus. And it is all love.

    BruceC
    Soli Deo Gloria!

  11. poohpity says:

    Pat, you were right in the last topic that Satan can play a hand in our lives by putting so many other things on our minds that we forego filling our minds with the Word.

    When King Josiah heard the Word of the Lord it tranformed him. (2 Kings 22:8-11 NIV) I do not think it was received in a way that brought them to living a law based life but in a way that exposed their hearts and need for God through nourishment and enabling the King to rule with God as the true Head of Judah. Josiah seemed to want to know God and please Him as he brought change to his people.

    It can call me to clear my thinking to find I have not lived up to the standards God has deemed best for my relationship with Him and with others. I can see myself and my heart as I read, it is like being filtered to seeing things more clearly not to see others and how bad they mess up but to see how bad I mess up and how kind and gracious our Lord truly is.

    I really understand what David was saying in Pslam 139:23-24 NIV and Paul in Romans 7:24-25 NIV.

  12. poohpity says:

    OOps Psalm 139:23-24 NIV. Since I changed my browser I no longer have spell check, wouldn’t it be nice if we had an application that did a heart check. Well I guess we do the Bible.

  13. oneg2dblu says:

    Getting personal to me, is knowing that your personal name (is) written in the Book of Life. It is all over God’s love letter written for you, in His Holy Bible.
    Ever seen the Joy on the face of a brand new believer? It is pure gifted spiritual awakening, it is not knowing all the word, not knowing all the commands, all the warnings, it is knowing that you know, you know, Christ is the real deal, because Christ revealed himself to you to get real personal.
    Then, the world, the church, the well meaning, the haters, the lovers, the noise, the family, the work, the clock, the traffic, the next meal, the right clothes, the right church, the right you name it, suddenly gets in your way.
    Heck, God even sends just the right one to push all your wrong buttons, just to increase your faith and your understanding that it is He alone who should push your buttons.
    But, he choses to use others at times, and for Job, we all know who was pushing his buttons.
    The hardest button is my personal learning curve is the repeat button, which He keeps pushing until I finally get the messsage.
    Shall I repeat that for you? :)
    Gary

  14. BruceC says:

    pooh,

    I think if download Speckie from the web it may work in your browser. And it’s free. It works for me; and I really need it.

    BruceC
    Soli Deo Gloria!

  15. belleu says:

    Everyone wrote such lovely comments. I’ve had trouble with trying to fix people too. In my family we are all very close and we are always trying to fix each other! We love each other, but we each think we know what is best. I’m trying to change that in myself.

    I love what Mart said about the Word being a collective self-revelation of God. I just read that in a book about the minor prophets. The author said that although most people don’t care for these books of the Bible, they reveal God’s deepest feelings about people. And yes, the Bible exposes our hearts and makes us realize how much we need him. It is a deeply personal relationship.

  16. BruceC says:

    Belleu,

    I too love to read the “minor” prophets. Seems they have some “major” things to say from God.

    BruceC
    Soli Deo Gloria!

  17. SFDBWV says:

    In an earlier thread to this subject we discussed wisdom and the *ant* was given as an example in the written Word for wisdom in action.

    Ants and bees live in a society of single-minded purpose, their survival as a group.

    Spray an anthill or bees nest with poison and right away the tiny insects try to block the opening with their own bodies sacrificing their tiny little lives for the safety of the colony or hive.

    Studying these little creatures one sees *no* individuality, all know their purpose and live out their lives doing just what they were created to do.

    If we as people can’t learn from just one line of Scripture what it is God is trying to explain to us, how ever can we imagine that we can understand all the more complex and unobvious examples given?

    Somehow we must surrender individuality to unity in Jesus of Nazareth, who exemplifies God.

    Learning from Scripture needs to aid in the unity of the Body of Christ, not divide it.

    How do we do that/

    Look again to the ant or if you will the bee (a flying ant).

    Steve

  18. Artle says:

    Been thinking and having trouble getting words to flow on topic, but I think I have it now.

    My thought would be to not try to read the bible. Pick it up and read. Don’t look for answers. Don’t take anything with you when you go. Let your mind be clear. Let your heart be open and let the Word be alive. You won’t have to worry about how to read it, understand it or apply it. It will just be part of you.

  19. Artle says:

    I like what Steve wrote about ants and bees this morning, but I have to think we may not be so far off as it may appear. Just a thought that at first glance, and if we cannot see the hill, an individual ant can appear to be lost and wandering and definitely puny.

    I had a thought develop in the last topic how individual Christians are kind of weak and not much force. Then it occurred to me that, though we look weak individually, the Christian Church combined across the planet is an incredible, almost unbelievable force. Think about it. God is like that and the Word is like that. Things appear disconnected, but are they?

  20. poohpity says:

    I guess I have yet to read in the Bible where are asked to give up our individuality. Quite the opposite it seems to tell of many individuals with different gifts working together for the same purpose. I have always felt if anything the Bible allows us to be who we were created to be but enhanced by getting rid of the garbage/sin that stops us from being all that we can be.

    The example of ants seems to be used as an example of hard work rather than laziness and being weak does not stop them from being wise.

    We seem to be divided by ego elevating self rather than God but reading the Bible daily helps us stay in check as the Lord speaks to us, teaches us and shines light on those areas we need to repent of, those areas that stop growth. Things that need to be pruned to be all that He created us to be, to give Him honor and Glory rather than wanting it for ourselves.

  21. poohpity says:

    The one thing that is common to all mankind is sin. That does not give preferential treatment to no man/woman it does the same thing in everyones life but we can not see it if we do not have a guide and that guide is the Bible. We would never think we have anything that needs work and we would never come to the realization of the fullness of grace without it. I can not even begin to tell of all the things that the Bible does for us the most important is that we are not alone in sin and our need for our God.

  22. oneg2dblu says:

    Good morning all…
    I agree with Steve, that we are all to be learning from scripture.

    To me, part of that learning is sharing.

    Although, sharing may divide as well as unite, this is seen in Steve’s recent example of church against church, against church, which supports both positions, one of unity and of division.

    So,religion alone no matter which one man chooses, must have a certain relationship or component, a getting personal if you will, with Jesus Christ as Lord, Jesus Christ as God, and Jesus Christ as its central most valued element, or it fails God’s Word right from the start.

    Genesis 1:1
    “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”

    John 1:1
    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    He was with God in the beginning,”

    It is also beneficial that we not continue to learn from or follow the world who can not ever understand scripture correctly, or any religion of man which may well interpret it wrongly and then only teaches man its ways, and deceptively or without visible blatant lies, misleads multitudes, and forfeits God’s plan written for His people, the church.

    So, all churches, all learning, and all actions are not as beneficial as following God’s plan, which is found in His Word.

    Unless, His purpose, unless His benefits, benefit both the individual and the group, and it’s Eternal Master’s Plan for His Kingdom, which only He can, and does define for each individual soul through a relationship, a getting personal with Jesus Christ, His Only Begotten Son.

    I believe all life has this survival instinct built in to its DNA. Good bees and killer bees both work diligently and with unity. Good ants and killer ants both work diligently with unity and both work for their group survival of their particular regeneration.

    Each group want to preserve itself and its ways, but what motivates it and what it follows, whether it follows the truth in God’s word, or its own nature, that can make all the difference.

    We must die to self, self preservation, self direction.

    We must be born again into the preservation of the word of God, into direction from the word of God, and be centered in the word of God, which is Jesus Christ.

    To me, Ants and Bees are just like the rest of the world’s creatures who survive today by their nature, but the soul of man does not have true biblical learning built in, because that wisdom only comes from God.

    Many creatures do however have a great work ethic, but, that alone does not lead them to Christ.

    It is the Holy Spirit directing the soul of each individual that provides the will to surrender self, and to follow His Spirit instead, which leads to Salvation in Jesus Christ.

    There is “no other way” where we can “learn and properly understand” God’s Word, but through His Holy Spirit.

    Daniel 12:1, 2, 10 (NIV) speaks about the end times.

    Like the Parable of the Sower, found in the gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke, as taught by Christ but never fully understood by the world or his disciples, and whether you understand them or not, “It is written,” not all will be saved.

    The disciples found need for further understanding, and they were given more.

    Sharing that truth may not seem beneficial to all here today, because it does not bring with it our definition of unity.
    Gary

  23. oneg2dblu says:

    I was writing around the same tome as pooh and atrle, so I only saw Steve’s post earlier and then replied.
    All good thoughts, focus on Christ, then everything else, even the work ethic, takes on a new direction.
    Form the nature, to the Spirit.
    We don’t lose all of ourselves though, but God gives us a boost, a helper, a purpose, a reason, and a Saviour.

  24. Artle says:

    Suggestion about those posts that pop up between starting to write and posting. Unless it is going to be short, I use a word processor and then cut and paste my comment. Also takes care of spell check and attempts to improve my grammar. :-)

    If I do type a shorty, like this one, I copy it and refresh the page before submitting.

  25. poohpity says:

    Today in church the issue was brought up about reading Gods’ Word and listening for Him to speak to us personally and without the Word we may not know it is God speaking or be able to indentify His voice. Then comes the convicting part, “we are more ready to speak than we are open to listening”. We are ready to tell God what we want from Him, how we want Him to work in our lives and in the lives of others, what we want Him to do, when we want it done, how we want it done and fail often times to listen to what God’s Will is, learn how He works, follow the instructions He has given us, nor even spend time to get to know Him. The kinda time anyone puts into a relationship when they want it grow, they listen.

    God whispers, we tend to yell!!

  26. remarutho says:

    Good Evening All –

    Concerning a life of relationship with Jesus contrasted with a life of Bible principle – Mart, you wrote:

    “…if we think of ‘the word of God’ as a collective self-revelation of the God who is exposing our own hearts and need of him, so that we will learn to love him, one another, and even our enemy—we can then begin feeding not only on words that can quickly divide us—but on the personal Word who nourishes us (and enables us) with the graciousness and kindness of God (1Peter 2:1-3).”

    Many different personalities through millennia of time have had relationships with the Lord: Contrast Samson, one of the judges, with King David; or the Prophetess Huldah with Martha of Bethany, Jesus’ friend. It seems to me we learn from every book of the Bible through the living out of God’s calling both by the inspired writers and by the persons, tribes and nations they write about.

    Jesus draws us into fellowship with himself and the Father and the Holy Spirit. Surely the Lord sees the future Messiah when he tells us, “I will walk among you and be your God, and you will be my people.” (Leviticus 26:12) God, who has always been a person, made his personhood understandable by coming to earth in the flesh as Jesus.

    Maru

  27. SFDBWV says:

    Mart, in trying to respond to this topic I find myself writing mini novels and I don’t want to do that.

    However I do want to share a little devotional message I have from a separate source other than RBC.

    It quotes 2 Peter 3:16 in part by saying “…his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which some things hard to understand, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scripture, unto their own destruction.”

    The devotional goes on to explain how important it is for *every* Christian to study and use the Scriptures as they constitute the *only real authority*.

    Quoting a part of the devotional; “Many people twist the Scriptures, seeking to make them fit some opinion of their own, hoping thereby to give a pseudo-biblical authority to their peculiar prejudices, instead of allowing the Lord to say what He means. Such distortion of Scripture has generated a plethora of cults and heresies, past and present.”

    The study of God’s Word is a very serious undertaking and the giving of opinion very dangerous, silence sometimes the best answer.

    Steve

  28. remarutho says:

    Good Morning All —

    God’s self-revelation by the writing of the Scriptures under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit gives many, many images and parallels of God’s goodness. Also, many personalities, cultural norms and social conditions impact the writings.

    The highly organized social structure of insects — ants and bees (Steve) — certainly recommends diligence, hard work and cooperation among humans. It does not celebrate the relationship God has sought and fostered with God’s people. We, by contrast to any animal it seems to me, have a complex and intimate relationship with God.

    I agree that the Holy Scriptures have been given by the Lord as a body of self-revelation over the millennia. Agree also that the reading, study and understanding of the Bible are essential to knowing and loving God more and more over time. Taking up that love and living by it is surely vital to “what it takes to apply the written words of Scripture to our lives,” as Mart has stated.

    Seems to me the operative action is loving, not knowing. Words that convey God’s immense love in Christ is preferable to silence, in my humble opinion.

    Yours,
    Maru

    PS As a side-bar to this topic, I ask that BTA folks pray for the US Supreme Court. Deep wisdom and love of God’s creation and God’s people are called for as the court reconvenes.

  29. Artle says:

    The context of all scripture is essential. A single verse cannot be fully understood without knowing the whole story. John 3:16, for example, has more meaning when you have Matthew, Mark, Luke and John for reference and even more meaning when you have all of scripture. There are many verses and even chapters that appear to stand on their own, but without all of scripture, the meaning is not the same. Any single book of scripture would have little value by itself, so all scripture must be considered together to gain the greatest understanding of the smallest part.

  30. SFDBWV says:

    Forgive me please for saying that I never for a moment thought I would have to explain the *wisdom* of the insects mentioned and it’s meaning toward our personal relationship with God, but please let me explain.

    Jesus created His Church, the Body of Christ, and Paul through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit explained that we are all parts of this body, with Christ as the brains (head).

    Each of us have a part in that body, but are not singularly the whole body.

    Each of us *together* make up the body.

    The purpose of this body is to carry on the work started by Jesus as the one and only Son of God and most importantly to bring the message to the world who God is and that there is hope through Jesus of Nazareth for forgiveness and reconnection to God.

    The insect shows us that there is *no* individuality in the hive or nest, all work together for the goal of survival as a group.

    We as members of the body of Christ must *learn* from the insect that only through giving up *self* (individuality) and working in *unison* together for the goal of the group can we hope to succeed and be in concert with what God intends for His Church to do with Him as the *head*.

    As Mart said at the end of his statement, am I as clear now as mud?

    Steve

  31. cbrown says:

    “Our Daily Bread” and “My Utmost for Highest” take to different approaches to a daily devotional. I prefer the “Our Daily Bread” for several reasons. First,it is written by many authors and the topics are more applicable to day to day.Also,it is available everywhere. Churches,hospitals,prisons,nursing homes,etc. If you are encouraging someone to start having a daily devotional it is a good option. But having said that “my Utmost for His Highest” has really been helpful this last week and at times can really help me see where I am not putting Christ first. To very different perspectives but both helpful.

  32. remarutho says:

    If I break the rules and err on the side of loving the image of God in the sinner (myself or another) — having broken the lock-step adherence to jot and tittle, have I begun the slide to the dark side, or have I fulfilled Christ’s commandment to love him and to love my neighbor as myself?

    How will the Word made flesh live in me? Can I proceed with a prime directive with uniform application at all times?

    Just asking, since the whole hierarchical arrangement seems a bit rigid for human action…

    Maru

  33. cbrown says:

    I believe the Holy Spirit gives us the ability to “proceed with a prime directive with uniform application at all times”.

  34. cbrown says:

    LOL. to = two and to= two in above post. My English teachers would give me an F.

  35. poohpity says:

    I think maybe we have traded collection to collective like the Borg, lol!!

    Romans 12:2 NIV teaches us that our minds have to be retaught from what we have always known and what we have acted on to a new way of thinking which in turn effects our behaviors, just like Jesus explained in Mark 2:22 NIV. Before human effort was all we knew and it is hard to let go of that to trust in the Spirit. The personal application of the Bible to our own lives is like a surgical tool that separates the old way of thinking and acting by transforming our minds. It is the sword we use against false teaching not against a person but what they will try and fill our minds with especially when it directly opposes what we are taught in God’s Word but the only way to identify garbage is to know truth.

    Yes it can be become legalistic if we do not understand what Paul was teaching in Galatians 3:1-3 NIV for instance or the many times Jesus taught the same things in the Gospels. It seems we often through a lack of understanding impose the scriptures on others and miss how it is applied personally to our own lives as in the Hebrews text. God knows everything and sees everything and the Word seems to be used not only for people centuries ago but to our own lives today. People are still people and God is still God. Anything learned can be unlearned and the very awesome neat thing is once one has tasted and learned how very good the Lord is through the Word most want to keep coming back for more. We learn we are not perfect but God’s love is and how do you know by reading His Word and allowing it to penetrate our very souls, minds and hearts.

  36. royalpalm says:

    Amen, pooh and well said. I believed after I had heard, and I bless the Lord for sending those who faithfully shared. Now as I read more of God’s word I learn more of His love for me and the whole world and, like the one who shared it with me I too like to share it with others. As today’s Daily Bread reading says we have the high and holy privilege of declaring God’s glory, wonders, salvation, and love to all the peoples.

    Artle I agree wholeheartedly with your 8:13am post –that we should always take the whole Bible into consideration.

    In Matthew 13 Jesus taught a series of parables about the kingdom of heaven. Each of these parables is profound. Matt. 13:44,45 are about the treasure that 2 men found, one accidentally and one through diligent pursuit and how they gave up what they have to attain these treasures.

    After asking them if they understood Him, Then He said to them, “Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old.” Matt. 13:52. Every scribe (teacher) who is instructed about the kingdom of heaven now possess the treasure and can show new and old things from the truth he has learned.

  37. oneg2dblu says:

    Good day all…. In the garden, makind set the precident for sin, disobedience to God’s word, and God set the precident for forgiveness, the shed blood of the innocent to cover the sin. Both sin and the law were well defined and set into perpetual motion.
    For me, the law is not oppressive, or totally paralizing, or should it be ignored, just because Christ came to forgiver us from the penalty of death which was part of the law, before Chrsit and the cross came to fulfill the law not remove it.
    Remember it is His Law…
    Today, beleivers in Christ have the Holy Spirit in then, leading, warning, helping, and enabling us to follow Him
    in the wsy to successfully navigate throught the law by just attending to the Will of God, which includes Obedience to His Law.
    We are not given something that can not be done with His Helper, and with His Helper we can follow both law and the will of God.
    We are not under the sentence of death that the law brings to those who reject Christ, we are Under Grace, Under Disciple, and Under God’s Will when we obey His Commands, the Law.
    There is much more freedom for me personally when obeying the law, then there is when living outside the Will of God, outside the Law, and then being Under constant conviction from His Holy Spirit.
    Those sleepless nights, those unending nudges, that still small voice that penetrates to the marrow.
    I trust all God’s chosen who have responded to His Will are under conviction, and not condemnation, but conviction.
    I love all God’s Word and God’s Law found in His Word, and God’s Provision given in His Word, which is Alive in us, to be able to freely live within the law.
    Thank God he has given us the freedom of choice to choose His Ways, and His Helper to allow us to see the difference.
    Just doing my part in the body…sharing.
    Be Blessed, Gary

  38. poohpity says:

    Gary, how do you understand what Paul taught in Galatians 3:5 NIV? Abraham did not have the law so how is it that only by faith he was shown as righteous?Habakkuk 2:4 NIV; Romans 1:17 NIV; Romans 3:19-10 NIV; Romans 3:27 NIV; Col 2:14 NIV; Gal 3:11 NIV

  39. poohpity says:

    Ooops Romans 3:9-10 NIV not Romans 3:19-10 that just does not work lol!!

  40. poohpity says:

    Good grief I will get it right yet, lol Romans 3:19-20 NIV just forget my feeble attempts at trying to teach and read the Bible, lol!! The Lord will teach everyone if they will just stay in the Word and the difference between living by faith and by trying to be such a good person by following the law which is depending on the flesh which no one was ever able to accomplish except Jesus which was who it was supposed to point to in the first place. That does not mean we are to live a lawless life and anyone who loves the Lord and abides/lives closely with Him it will begin to transform us into His likeness not by following the law but by faith.

  41. poohpity says:

    The difference in trying to “Be Jesus” and to live like Him as in a parallel existence.

  42. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh… You are asking me how I read Galations 3:5?
    Of course, I read it with the help of the Holy Spirit, to say this, I, and the Galations, and all believers, could only do miracles through the Holy Spirit, given to all as a deposit upon their faith in Christ.
    According to Christ, when they complained they were not able to work miracles, it was because their faith was lacking.
    How do you read it?

  43. oneg2dblu says:

    Wow, twice I mis-spelled Galatians! :0

  44. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh… you are asking me, How was it that Abraham who did not have the law was shown as righteuos?
    My answer would be as the scriptures reveal, it was by faith!

  45. belleu says:

    I like what Gary said about loving God’s law. I love the law of God (10 Commandments)also. It is a beautiful set of rules for the universe. I’m not saved by keeping it, but it does convict me of sin and it shows what life should be about, loving God and our fellow man.

  46. cbrown says:

    Please pray for me and about 10 other mentors with me as we travel about 80 miles to a faith based cell block(dorm) in a maximum security prison.Pray that God will be glorified in all that is said and done. If an inmate has not accepted Christ as his Savior he will and if he has we can encourage them in the Faith.

  47. oneg2dblu says:

    Pooh…Don’t you just hate it when the very point you are trying so hard to convay, even through use of verse still alludes you and steals your moment, and even produces opposing verse.

    Romans 3:10 (NIV) As it is written: “There is no one righteuos, not even one!”

    So, Abraham wasn’t righteous either, but his faith was credited to him as righteousness by God.

    You are pushing a point about some works driven righteousness, for some reason…
    But, I’m speaking about the deposit of Holy Spirit in every believer, as our helper to obey the law, which is all part of God’s Will.

    Romans 3:19
    “Now we know the whatever the law says, it says to those under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.”

    I beleive, that we who believe are still part of the world and accountable to God as well as his law.

    What we beleive in our understanding, or our place with the law had better be in obedience, and not using our faith position as any form of blindness to the law.

    We all know the law was exposed for a reason, and that reason is to see our sin.

    So once we see, the connection to the law and our sin, how do we then become blind again?

    But, I will go back and read my writing as it may conflict with my original intention, “the Power of the Holy Spirit in us given to help us obey the law and not become blind to it.”

    Where relying on self, works, seems to be the jist of conflict with the verses you bring up.

    Two distinctly different lines of thought, but each with a worthy message.

    Thanks for sharing your point. :)

  48. oneg2dblu says:

    cbrown… you are covered in prayer and blessed with a mission. As you ring your light into that dark place and let is shine for Him. Gary

  49. oneg2dblu says:

    Oops! I know I hit the “B’ key, but it is not there, so “ring your light,” is a great close unexpected substitute.

  50. Artle says:

    Gary & pooh, It almost sounds like you two are thinking the same thoughts with different words, but maybe not, its hard to tell sometimes in the fog.

    Did I say fog, I meant blog. It may just be me, but at times it is difficult to follow a thought and easy to leave with not the intended idea. Makes me wonder how many of my thoughts might be bloggy, I mean foggy.

  51. Artle says:

    Gary, I’m guessing when you say law of God, you are not referring to all the law including sacrifices, circumcision, stoning people when they do certain things, festivals, etc. So, if not all the law, what law??

  52. poohpity says:

    Gary, I am not looking for my moment, I could care less. It was Paul who said, “For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse” not me. Paul also said, “we were held prisoners by the law”; also “we are no longer under the supervision of the law”. It has nothing to do with me at all. It is whether I want to live under the curse or the promise. I chose the promise by faith. I know I am unable to do everything written in the Book of the Law even with the help of the Holy Spirit it is not possbile only Jesus could do that and I have never read about anyone else ever doing it. I can not receive the promise of the Spirit if I live by the law, I can only receive it by faith. Anyone can morph something as beautiful as faith, the promise, grace, mercy to law-based living (ashes/curse/self-righteousness)just ask the Pharisees, Sadducees and religious people in our times that chase people away from Christ.

    I hope it makes you feel good about yourself to make fun of me and my mistakes.

  53. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh… I am sorry you have allowed yourself the thought that I am making fun of you.
    That is just not in my heart to do that.
    I was poking at how when we try sometimes to bring out a point and it just does not work as well as we would like. We have lost the moment and it takes some of the impact away.
    We all make those typo mistakes here, we are all guilty of having to correct ourselves, even Mart. :)

    None are perfect, none are righteous because of the law.
    Please do not allow shallow thoughts to give strength to further any misunderstandings.
    Forgive me it I have personally offended you.
    Gary

  54. oneg2dblu says:

    oops! “if I have personally offended you.” :0

  55. oneg2dblu says:

    Artle, yes, we are all speaking truth, biblically based truth, sharing scriptures, and thoughts. Many times the same and this blog fog gets a little thick at times, because humanity sometimes slips in and has its moment, when we least expect it.
    Gary

  56. remarutho says:

    Prayers going up for you and your cohort, CBrown as you enter the prison to teach and fellowship! Hoping many become free on the inside today.

    It seems to me, Mart & Friends, that the writer of that letter (Hebrews 4:12, 13, 14) wants them/us to know that no intimate state of our spirit escapes the insight of Christ. Recall how many times Jesus saw into the hearts of those he met. (Matt 12:25; Mark 15:10; Luke 6:8; John 6:64 for example)

    The desire for the truth in my inner person must be genuine — trusting in the Lord for peace and rest from the struggles of the worldly kingdom. If I am still exerting myself for righteousness, I have missed it. How often have I seen how gentle and understanding Jesus is with me when I am still seizing control rather than surrendering to him! The maturing process is slow going.

    Maru

  57. remarutho says:

    Kinda like the foggy – bloggy thing! Truth lives. :o)

  58. oneg2dblu says:

    I believe Christ said, you can not serve two masters, for you will love one, and hate the other.

    Paul said, you either serve the sin nature (the flesh) or the spirit, and they directly oppose each other.

    We either serve the flesh or the spirit, one is a slave to sin as it follows the sin nature,or a slave to Christ when it follows the Law of the Spirit.

    I would rather be a slave to the law, captive if you will, although the reality for me is that I have found great freedom in so doing, because I have learned the freedom to say “No,” instead of saying, I am captive to sin because, I can not, not sin!

    That to me, that is a form of helplessness, captivity, that one should not have to carry around the burden of I can not, not sin.

    I believe in the power of the God’s word that is found in, 1 Corithians 10:13 (NIV) and that to me, brings a freedom the rest of the sinning world, can not find or follow.

    It is just two different ways of looking at the same thing, right livng, and how we each choose to express how to live our lives for Christ.

    Paul said, “Faith without works is dead.”

  59. oneg2dblu says:

    Artle… Yes, not the law of the circumcision of the flesh, but the heart. The Sprit of the law, if you will, not the letter.

    The certainly living better than we ever have because of Christ in us, not reaching perfection, not sinless, but sinning less.

    We all know what that means, yet it is a constant point of opposition that brings unrest to the body every time it is brought to the surface, and then, scriptures start flying all over the place for the supporting of both sides.

    If we could only talk just politics, or something easy like that, then we would not have these problems, we would be more loving and easy on each other, and always forgiving, just like the rest of the world. :)

  60. remarutho says:

    James 2:17 would be the Apostle James’ thinking.
    The Apostle Paul said Ephesians 2:8-9. Maru

  61. poohpity says:

    Having a faith that works is one that trusts in Jesus and does good works because of that faith, I do not think it means following the law.

    The serving of two masters was Jesus speaking about money and God and I do not think it has to do with the law or grace. Matt 6:24 NIV but then again it could just be me using shallow thinking.

    Gary what were you saying about “we are all speaking truth, biblically based truth”?

  62. cbrown says:

    Thank you for your prayers. 4 inmates accepted the Lord as their Savior and many more were encouraged in there walk with the Lord. Praise God!

  63. poohpity says:

    Praise God!! We can never have enough brothers/sisters. Thank you for serving the Lord, cbrown and sharing/being the gospel.

  64. remarutho says:

    Rejoicing with the team who went to the high security prison today. Four more won to Christ! Blessings, Maru

  65. oneg2dblu says:

    How shallow of me to step outside the letter of the word and use parallel thinking, to avoid being called legalistic,
    what was I thinking.
    So, we can serve two masters… I get it now!
    Can I apologize again. once is never enough, but must I now live with attacker/liar attached to me for a misquote and a misunderstanding?
    But as you say pooh, “Having a faith that works is one that trusts in Jesus and does good works because of that faith, I do not think it means following the law.”
    I thought all “good works” were works, but I’m probably wrong agasin.
    Please forgive me, if you can.

  66. oneg2dblu says:

    Thanks Maru, good dig. I cherish being held accountable, by my brothers and sisters, it was James and not Paul.

    I trust the intention of the verse in James was not lost when I credited it to Paul in error.

    So, James 2:17,18,19 (NIV) is the full context, I should have looked it up first. :)

  67. oneg2dblu says:

    Please forgive my misleading of anyone here when I said, quote, “I believe Christ said, you can not serve two masters, for you will love one, and hate the other.”

    How horrible of me, that I did not add that the next verse that talks about God and money.

    Thanks pooh, for making that unbiblical trash I tried to present, into clear and rational thinking, one which means it must be applied to only God and money.

    So, my thinking that the principle of not serving two masters is incorrect on all levels, if you don’t restrict it to the following God and money text as well.

    I am not sorry I shared what I believed was a basic principle of the master and slave relationship, and then applied it to the same as serving of the flesh or the Spirit, but I am sorry, that that thinking apparently is not acceptable.

    Pooh says, “The serving of two masters was Jesus speaking about money and God and I do not think it has to do with the law or grace.”

    Thanks pooh, or sharing your opinion.

    Here’s my opinion… I do not believe that James is saying that because demons also believe and shutter that they lack faith, no, but their lack of good works is what proves their faith is dead.

    So, just believing or having a faith is not all there is, that is according to James, good works must be present, or faith is dead.

    So in my opinion, Demons have a dead faith, because they lack good works, as they apparently come from a bad tree, because they show bad fruit.

    Faith + good works = good fruit, or the fruit that bears the flowing goodness of God within.

    If one does not see any basic law in that principle, then one does not see being under any law in that principle either.

    Gary

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