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When it Comes to Specifics

DSC01017I recently listened to the lecture of a Jewish rabbi who explained at length that Jewish and Christian people part ways not only over the New Testament, but over a large body of oral law which he said is essential to Jewish faith.

According to this teacher, most if not all laws of written Scripture pose a problem to the person who wants to obey God. He went on to give examples of how what is written in the Hebrew Scripture leaves the reader with all kinds of questions about how to actually carry out in specific and practical terms what God is requiring. For example, he read the Shema of Israel (Deut 6:4-9) part of which requires Israel to write something on their hands as a sign of what God is requiring of them. Yet what they are actually to write on their hands is not specified. His explanation is that the written Hebrew Scriptures are like notes that require an understanding of all that God orally revealed to Moses.

People of the New Testament have a similar problem with most if not all of the challenges given to us. Like the people of Israel we are told to love our neighbor as ourselves as an expression of whole-hearted love for God. While we may have a pretty good sense of some of the things we should not do, how can we know for sure what God does want us to do or to say so as to love our neighbor as ourselves?

If we were as good and as insightful as God, we would know the answers to all of these questions.

So, what I’m hoping we can talk about is—how, in specific and practical terms— are we to live,  love, be joyful, grateful, patient hearers of our God? And will the answer to such a question help us focus on and explain the distinct mark and nature of the good news that has changed us?


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74 Responses to “When it Comes to Specifics”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    When I was about to move on from the 8th grade to the 9th I had to take an aptitude test in order to give the educators insight as to what direction to move my high school curriculum so as to move me along in that direction.

    I remember it like it was yesterday, and remember thinking as I took the test how easy it was to answer the questions so as to get the results *I* wanted, not necessarily an honest one.

    I don’t think I am all that unique or uncommon as to know how to answer questions so as to favor the way I want the outcome to be.

    I have always enjoyed reading or listening to Rabbi’s explain the Scripture, as they do so with such an understanding that it sounds and feels right. I especially enjoy it when they can see and show Jesus of Nazareth in the writings of the OT, as it becomes and sounds so obvious that Jesus is and was the promised Messiah.

    It was I suppose these little gaps Mart’s Rabbi that caused the experts of the Writings of the OT to miss *seeing* their Messiah. Gaps that God used to blind them so that His will and plans could be carried out.

    The comment to love our neighbor as we love ourselves is of course where someone in anonymity coined the phrase “The Golden Rule”.

    “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

    It really is that simple. The problem arises when others treat you badly or worse treat someone you love badly.

    Such cruelty cannot be dismissed or ignored for long until you will respond in kind either by action or sentiment.

    Mart’s question is addressed to how “we are to live, love, be joyful, grateful, patient *hearers of our God*?

    If we only hear God from the pages of Scripture, according to the aforementioned Rabbi, there are missing parts of the message.

    Are the missing parts then open for interpretation, or awaiting the Holy Spirit’s leading? How then are we sure *our* interpretation is correct or that the *voice* we hear is actually from the Holy Spirit and not our own?

    We could check with alignment from Scripture, but are back once again to the *gaps* awaiting enlightenment to fill in the rest of the story.

    Steve

  2. poohpity says:

    Steve, what do you see as “gaps”? Don’t you feel we have enough in scripture to let us know the guidelines to live a life devoted to God full of life, joy, gratitude while being patient hearers of our God? Should we search for more when we do not even know what we have?

  3. street says:

    i think the gaps are to be filled in by faith.

    as for the Golden rule it pales in comparison to Jesus command in John 13: 34-35.

    He calls us to selflessness.

    Such cruelty cannot be dismissed or ignored for long until you will respond in kind either by action or sentiment. Fear and unfaithfulness can cause people not to respond. If I am thinking right if you light a lamp and put it under a basket the basket will eventually catch on fire or the lamp go out.

  4. poohpity says:

    What I see as a specific is living in vital union with Christ. First things first then all else will follow. Garbage out but it has to be replaced with something to fill the hole, hopefully the Holy Spirit. God knows and I bet each one of us knows what fills our time and our minds. What is it that takes first place in our lives? Whatever seems to rule over us changes the person in accordance to whatever that is. It seems so easy to say it is the Lord but is it really?

  5. remarutho says:

    Good Morning All —

    Mart, you have posed the question:

    “…how, in specific and practical terms— are we to live,
    love,
    be joyful,
    grateful, patient hearers of our God?

    And will the answer to such a question help us focus on and explain the distinct mark and nature of the good news that has changed us?”

    It seems to me if where we live is becoming the kingdom of God, we are preparing ourselves to touch the lives of the poor, the alien, the widow and the orphan. These commandments have no gaps, but are presented plainly as early as the Ten Commandments — and followed up by the “social justice” portions of Moses’ sayings. (Exodus 22:21, 22, 23)

    Does my church (large or small), Bible group, home church or fellowship keep a list of agencies that offer emergency help to:

    victims of domestic violence —
    free, nutritious food for the hungry —
    shelter for the homeless —
    clothing for those without clothes for the weather — help for the stranded traveler?

    Do I volunteer there?

    Yours,
    Maru

  6. remarutho says:

    After I have “learned” my community, do I just show up to be salt and light? Do I greet the world-weary with hospitality — a hot cup of coffee — a glass of cold juice — a bottle of clean water? Do I sit with those who come to eat, eating what they eat and sharing “where I come from” and asking, “Where do you come from?”

    What I think I have learned from the good rabbis I have known is that we are all slaves freed from our bondage in Egypt by the hand of the Lord.

    I am excited about the Summer Food Programs all over my county, sponsored by school districts and their Nutrition Services personnel, and other agencies. We serve kids age birth to 18 years in eight parks around the area. These programs exist in all 50 states, in small and large cities. Some of the most dedicated servants of the kids are non-churched young adults.

    Maru

  7. quietgrace says:

    Good day all!

    Maru and Steve reading your comments about how you serve others through your church and home reminds me of what Jesus said in Luke 16:19. These are all practical ways of living out our faith with love, joy, and gratefulness to the One who provides everything we need.

  8. quietgrace says:

    Oh sorry! I meant to say Luke 16:9

  9. quietgrace says:

    The NLT says more clearly what I was trying to say!

  10. remarutho says:

    Hi Quietgrace —

    I does cost some money to offer those basic necessities to people. But, I have found that somehow funds materialize — perhaps through prayer, asking or simply contributing a little, as each one can.

    There are federal funds available — along with commodity foods — to serve the children free lunch in the parks through the summer. A school district or a very large church is the perfect agency to handle all that paper-work! Then, we little people can just add love and service. Lots of Jesus-followers flock to help — along with others like Jews, Muslims and atheists. I am amazed! Maru

  11. street says:

    So, what I’m hoping we can talk about is—how, in specific and practical terms— are we to live, love, be joyful, grateful, patient hearers of our God? And will the answer to such a question help us focus on and explain the distinct mark and nature of the good news that has changed us?

    This is the second time, I think you have asked what it would look like or practical terms of a physical manifestation of what Faith, Hope, and Love would look like today. Wouldn’t it just look like a copy of the object of ones Faith , Hope, and Love? Answering the question diverts our focus from the object we serve. Should we judge our works or just obey? God is better at judging and guiding us then we are. His Holy Spirit, His Word, and His Grace…is the way He guides us.
    Romans 12 comes to mind.

  12. quietgrace says:

    Street I was also looking at Ephesians 5 NLT as practical ways of living by faith, hope, and love in an evil world.

    In our syncritist, pluralistic society the scriptures are changed and twisted to make people feel good, but what a lie ‘feelings’ can promote. So important to be always hearing from God.

    Lord give us all ears to hear today.

    Blessings,
    Grace

  13. quietgrace says:

    Street, I was also thinking of Ephesians 5 NLT today and how it tells us how to live and love in our syncristic, pluralistic society. So many voices in the world trying to make the scriptures say what makes people feel good, yet, as Jesus said, Narrow is the gate. Matt.7:14 NLT

    Hearing from God and waiting in faith is what keeps us on-track.

    Lord, give us all ears to hear today.

    Blessings, Grace

  14. quietgrace says:

    sorry, I thought I had lost my first post so there I go saying the same thing twice,lol!
    It’s extremely humid here today and my keyboard is acting funny.

  15. foreverblessed says:

    It was a bit cooler here, but beautiful summer weather, birds are singing, and I always feel so at home when they do, it is as if they are singing praise to God, and I join them!,

    How can we be a loving person: I believe that the first step is to be reconciled to God, and that we know for sure that He totally loves us, and we remain in His love.
    That we are totally at rest in Him, and secure. And then the Holy Spirit can talk to us, in a private way, and He will show us what to do.
    If we are not sure of that Love, and if we do not hear Him, we should ask God and keep asking, seek, knock, and pray, and God will answer us! Maybe not as quick as we thought… But hold on to the faith!

  16. foreverblessed says:

    Maybe that is why the way is narrow, it is hard to find. Hard to hear God personally, and have a personal relation with Him through Christ, that is way beyond living to a set of moral laws.
    It is the real life, the eternal life, seeing with eyes of faith, and knowing that out of our inner being streams of living water will flow, that will touch our fellow man. It is the Holy Spirit in us

  17. street says:

    While we may have a pretty good sense of some of the things we should not do, how can we know for sure what God does want us to do or to say so as to love our neighbor as ourselves?

    If we were as good and as insightful as God, we would know the answers to all of these questions.

    Matthew 25

  18. street says:

    If we were as good and as insightful as God, we would know the answers to all of these questions.

    Only God is good and sufficient. ask,seek, and knock.

  19. quietgrace says:

    If we have the Holy Spirit in us, we can know what is good, pleasing, and acceptable to God. Rom. 12:2 says to renew our mind.

  20. quietgrace says:

    Forever I also so enjoy the songs the birds sing! When they come to my feeders in the morning, noon, and night I hear them thanking God for His provision. In the evening and early morning I hear them thanking God for the new day of life He has given them. God gives us all so much to enjoy. I too sing with the birds about God’s provision for my life.
    Blessings to you, Grace

  21. armando1961 says:

    Scriptural interpretation has always posed a challenge to believers, both Jewish and Christian. The best we can do, I believe, is to approach these sacred texts with humility, love of God and a sincere and contrite heart, devoting the necessary time to reading these texts as they were meant to be read –carefully and sincerely– and hope for the best, that is, hope that God will kindle our proper understanding of these wonderful writings in the process. In addition, we should not forget –as so many people seem to do– that (a) all of the Books of the Old and New Testaments that we read are TRANSLATIONS of the originals, which were NOT written in English; and (b) that translations are, at best, approximations of the original texts, which is another reason to make an extra effort and to take a strong dose of caution when engaging in scriptural interpretation. The Almighty may have known what was intended to be written down but human language and human understanding have definite limitations.

  22. remarutho says:

    Good Afternoon All —

    Romans 12 has been a life-chapter for me for many years. As a young Jesus-follower, the Lord brought me back to Romans 12:1, 2 again and again.

    The first half of Romans 12 speaks about being devoted to God and worshiping God, and discerning the gifts God has planted in each of us (or in myself alone, according to temperament). It would be very difficult to share the gifts God has given in the prayer closet, it seems to me, since it is specific:

    “prophecy
    ministry
    teaching
    exhorter (encourager)
    giving
    leading
    compassion (Romans 12:6, 7, 8)

    The encouragement (exhortation) given in the second half of chapter 12 is practical — as in the practice or discipline of following Jesus, also specific:

    love genuinely
    hate evil
    hold to what is good
    love one another
    show one another honor
    be zealous (energetic)
    be ardent (sincere)
    serve the Lord
    rejoice in hope
    be patient in suffering
    persevere in prayer
    contribute to the needs of the saints
    extend hospitality (food, covering, shelter) to strangers

    The list of virtues is long…

    Paul concludes: “…if your enemies are hungry, feed them; if they are thirsty, give them something to drink; for by doing this you will heap burning coals on their heads.

    Finally, Paul writes:

    Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.”

    How do I overcome evil with good, if I am able to be out in the marketplace among those who have not yet met Jesus? For those who lead a very restricted life due to physical limitations or infirmity, God is faithful to call us to prayer and devotion in a sheltered setting.

    Blessings,
    Maru

  23. poohpity says:

    Jesus said, “You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.”

    “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. John 15:3-6 NIV

    What changes us? It seems to be the very presence of the Living God within us, our part is to remain in Him. What does remaining in Him look like? When you hang around with someone all the time you begin to emulate them, to where you can even finish each others sentences and share the same thoughts. The two become one.

  24. belleu says:

    Beautiful thoughts and answers from everyone here.

    “How can we know for sure what God wants us to say and do?” Sometimes I wonder about that so I pray first and try to listen for an answer. Should I give money to a homeless person or only food? Should I tell someone they are doing wrong or just pray for them? What should I do for someone who gambles her check away? She needs help, but she got herself into the mess. What to do? What to say?
    I pray for God to lead and guide and then try to do something good.

  25. remarutho says:

    A few years ago, Tony Campolo visited the university campus where I was hanging out. He (at 70-something) was saying he could not stay up ’til 1 a.m. with 20-somethings any more unless he had a nap, could not run up and down stairs any more — and on in that vein.

    He told a story of traveling by airplane, which he often does. He was seated next to an opinionated atheist. He discussed some issues of God — science — miracles — Bible historicity, etc, with the man. But, he told us that any more he simply leans into a conversation, listens and prays in the Holy Spirit for his new friend. He does not spend the energy he has on argument. He trusts the Spirit to do all the heavy lifting in the matter of transforming hearts and minds.

    I was impressed, because of Tony’s many decades of time spent teaching and preaching and writing and traveling. Could it be he is onto something?

    Maru

  26. poohpity says:

    Maru, sounds like Tony has learned what it is to trust God. I am afraid that it is a mark of humanity that thinks things depend on them. The religious people/leaders of Jesus’ time and now too, tend to point people to their acts of righteousness rather than to the One who puts desires in our hearts to love, be joyful, full of gratitude and patiently listening to our God.

    All through the Bible God seemed to just want people to know Him and the rest just came through that relationship. There are no rules to wear on one’s arm or on one’s head that will do anything like desiring God will achieve. No amount of good works will earn the love of God but because of God’s love for us will result in how we live. We do not deserve charity, grace or mercy but we act like for us to give charity, grace or mercy to others they must deserve it. Go figure.

  27. belleu says:

    Yes, I like what Tony said about saying a word, listening and leaving that person with God. I love it when people ask me about my belief in God so I can share what God has done for me.

    And I do think the most important thing God wants is for us to know him, as you said, Pooh. He still surprises me, I still don’t know him well, but I want to and strive to each day.

    Mart asked about “specifics” on how we are to “live, love, be joyful, grateful, patient hearers of our God?” I have found lately that spending much more time with God than previously has made me more “joyful”. I used to watch a lot of TV in the evenings but now I listen to sermons online, read the Bible and read religious books. I don’t struggle with depression any longer because of this, so I would say my joy is going out to others, which is good too. And the closer we are to God, the better we can hear his voice.

  28. SFDBWV says:

    In my own view the Rabbi Mart mentioned, missed the instruction of Deuteronomy 6:4-9 completely, but then I didn’t hear the lecture that Mart did.

    Some of us have trained or tried to train a pet to obey our commands, they don’t speak our language (to listen to some people you would think they do), but certain words are recognized by them and they respond expecting a reward of some kind for it.

    It is strange to me that people who accept that God is God and far above our ability to understand completely, try and not only explain Him, but invent excuses for Him as a cover for their inabilities to.

    Multiply that mindset by the number of readers of the Bible and you get a staggering number of different *understanding* for the simplest of comments from God.

    No matter how simple God makes it, people complicate it and worse some people then insist that you *must* see it their way and will eventually *hate* you if you don’t.

    All the while believing they are walking with God just as Enoch and doing the Work and will of Jesus Himself.

    Which brings me to “the nature of the good news that has changed us” as Mart has ask.

    Keeping it simple, what is the *good news*?

    Is it not that God has accepted the sacrifice of one man to punish for all the sins of all mankind?

    If this is true, then who is *not* covered by this sacrifice?

    This only becomes complicated when people start adding to it and adding what they see, not necessarily what God is saying.

    If we want forgiven for our own sins and then love others as we love ourselves we want them forgiven also…but too often *only* if they are in agreement with us.

    Is that what God is saying? Or what we *want* to hear?

    Steve

  29. tracey5tgbtg says:

    How – in specific and practical terms – are we to live, love and be joyful…

    If only we could answer that.

    Just tell me specifically what to do and I’ll do it. Tell me, in practical terms, what not to do and I won’t do it. Then I get a gold star, I’ve met the mark, I get the reward, I’m good enough, I’ve figured it out, I’m a righteous example and my life will lead others to Christ and that is the goal and the narrow path, right?

    Mart, you wrote, “According to this teacher, most if not all laws of written Scripture pose a problem to the person who wants to obey God.”

    Those who truly want to obey God will eventually come up against the fact that they can’t. Those who want to fulfill the law will never quite reach the point where they can say “I have done it.”

    From “The Practice of the Presence of God” by Brother Lawrence, “the greater perfection a soul aspires after, the more dependent it is upon divine grace.”

    Take Paul, for example. My personal opinion is that Paul really, really wanted to please God and obey Him and get it right. I think he pushed himself to follow the law with every ounce of strength he had. I think that is why God spoke to him so clearly. God could see in Paul’s heart the desire to be perfect and that the desire to be perfect was blinding him so that he could not see the One who is perfect.

    But after Paul came face to face with God, he could say things like: 2 Cor 12:9-10 But He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. …. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

    Love God. Never cease praying. Not my will, but Yours be done.

  30. remarutho says:

    Good Morning BTA Friends –

    Am getting stuck between the additional body of oral law the rabbi says is “essential to Jewish faith,” and the “…problems…all kinds of questions about how to actually carry out in specific and practical terms what God is requiring,” that you mention, Mart.

    Why would God’s people add laws? How can more laws be easier to keep?

    The Shema is beautiful: “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart.” (Deuteronomy 6:4-6)

    For me, listening to Jesus (Matthew 5 & Matthew 22:37, 38, 39, 40), there is a strong connection and obedience to God in his teaching. If the Decalogue is impossible to keep, what about trying to obey the Beatitudes? Can it be the New Covenant changes nothing, certainly not the character of God? Can it be we see in Jesus the Way – a Way where there was no way before – like the path through the Red Sea?

    Blessings,
    Maru

  31. street says:

    Thanks for all the comments. I just read through them. A little fire has been kindled in me. It relates to not knowing God very well? I think we know God pretty well, in Jesus, it’s His loving action that kinda of confuses us.
    I think a bigger problem is not knowing ourselves! Jeremiah 17:9

    The Almighty may have known what was intended to be written down but human language and human understanding have definite limitations. I believe God gave the Holy Spirit to over come man’s limitations.

    While we may have a pretty good sense of some of the things we should not do, how can we know for sure what God does want us to do or to say so as to love our neighbor as ourselves? point me to Jesus when I stay from the path. rules will not help me because i know what is in me. If that help is an action or a word on your part, please point me back to Jesus.

    But after Paul came face to face with God, he could say things like: 2 Cor 12:9-10 But He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. …. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

    When we are not walking in the knowledge of the truth, insert Beatitudes here, we don’t need God.

    “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” or do nothing. does anyone remember the do nothing pirats of veggie tales? Sometimes i think we want others to do nothing for us so we can not be bothered in our little world.

    Are the missing parts then open for interpretation, or awaiting the Holy Spirit’s leading? How then are we sure *our* interpretation is correct or that the *voice* we hear is actually from the Holy Spirit and not our own?

    Remember Peter’s confession of Jesus as the Son of God? The Holy Spirit revealed that to him just like the Holy Spirit reveled Jesus to us. Remember abide in the Spirit? How fast can we stray? It is mind boggling. I guess this did not answer your question. I guess it time to seek His face again because i went off on my own again!

  32. quietgrace says:

    Street thank you, I love your questions/thoughts.

    I think just knowing, as Jeremiah says, that the heart is deceitful is a step closer to God. Humility brings us to ourselves and toward a higher blessing and knowledge of the grace of God toward His creation.

    Enjoy the ride! blessings, Grace

  33. foreverblessed says:

    The problem with the Old Covenant is that we humans promised to keep God’s commandment, but we cannot. The Israelites said to God: We will obey, only do not speak to us, let Moses speak to us. Ex 20:18
    The problem is we think we can keep the commandments, and we try and try. But we fail again and again.
    To come to the point where I say: God, I am sorry, I cannot keep them.
    And then God answers: OK, you are finally there where I wanted you to be!
    I will make sure that your heart is changed. Jesus is the Surety of the better Covenant, Hebrews 7:22 Jesus makes it sure that we can keep it.
    If you believe in Jesus, and keep your eyes on Him His life will flow through you, and That will make you keep the commandments, and the beautitudes, and you will keep it

    Many have already written it here: surrender to God!
    And if you cannot, get to know Him better, the more you know about Him, the more you want to yield to Him

  34. belleu says:

    Being raised in a strict, fundamentalist church, I viewed God as looking for a reason to kill you. When I was converted at 19, that view didn’t change for quite awhile. I was terrified of God. Any mistake I made brought fear to my heart.

    Now I know God loves me, but it has been a slow progression. The friends of Job thought they knew God, but didn’t. The Pharisees thought they knew the will of God, but didn’t. Even the disciples didn’t understand Jesus; why he said what he said and did what he did.

    Street, I know you are right. It is by looking at Jesus’ life that we can best know who God is. When people ask, “What would Jesus do?” I think this is the best thing to think of when we aren’t sure what to do. Even then, we could get it wrong though.

  35. bep77 says:

    the definition of specific as an adjective: explicit,particular,or definite. So, in regards to “specific and practical terms”–stop trying to earn God’s love. He demonstrated His love for us before we did anything to make ourselves worthy of it. Romans 5:8 I learned that Paul’s letters were written because even the earliest believers would return to traditions,creeds,disciplines,& laws as an attempt to earn His love instead of learning to live in the security of His love. I do not think there are any specific and practical terms of God’s to live, love, be joyful and grateful except to just live in the light of His love and He can work out in us everything He desires.

  36. street says:

    You have searched me, Lord, and you know me. You know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts from afar. You discern my going out and my lying down; you are familiar with all my ways. Before a word is on my tongue you, Lord, know it completely. You hem me in behind and before, and you lay your hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain. Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast. If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me,” even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you. For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well! Psalm 139:1-14

  37. poohpity says:

    bep77, Amen. Living a life full of grace, so full it overflows to others.

    The Pharisees and other religious leaders wanted to tell others how to live their lives by the law when they were not even able to do it themselves and also heaped more rules on them just so they could feel better about themselves. Talk about a burden, a burden that only Jesus could bear.

  38. quietgrace says:

    Good afternoon all!
    While meditating on Marts question I thought of Micah 6:8. I looked it up and it seems that when we seek justice, love mercy, and walk with God in humility we will by default be joyful lovers of God. It really is a huge command to live out.

    Blessings to all of God’s hungry seekers of truth,
    Grace

  39. street says:

    I was thinking about Paul’s letter to the Romans and mentioned to someone that the law was a to teach a sinner what sin was. It was also teach children, the immature. So the law is for sinners and immature. I guess i will always be a sinner, but i do not have to remain immature. Jesus was always about His fathers work and and the religious leaders condemned Him for it. The darkness in people is great, but still not even dust on a scale to God. The obedience to law will keep you from sinning, did not work for Pharisees. A pure heart will keep you out of a world of sin. Matthew 5:8 Is it possible to entertain sin in God’s presents? Peter did. Matthew 16: 23 Guard your heart with Spirit and truth pay attention to what is on your heart and what you are looking for. God is always there for you! Just turn to Him.

  40. belleu says:

    When I say I want to do as Jesus would do, I don’t mean in order to win God’s love. What I mean is, “How can I act like God today, because I admire and love God and want to be like him.” I know we are all saved by grace and I’m so happy about that.

    An example: My mom has a friend who gets just enough money to get by each month, but she gambles most of it away. She borrows from people and goes to the food bank. My mom loans her money for food and I give her money. Twice she gambled away her rent and we couldn’t help her with that but welfare office did.

    Now, my mom has talked and talked with her about spending her money more wisely. I’ve asked her not to buy scratch tickets with the money I give her. I took her to the casino and she signed a three-year contract not to go back there. She has the mind of a 14 year old, I think. Just last week she said she can’t wait until her three-year wait is over so she can go back to the casino. This has been going on for two years or so.

    If Jesus were her neighbor, what would he say and do? I honestly have no idea. I just pray and give and the Lord has been providing wonderfully for my husband and I.

    My grandsons used to ask for money and I knew they were going to spend it on pot. I gave them the money anyway because I was afraid they would steal to get pot. These are the kinds of things I mean when I wonder what God’s will is for me to do. Day to day things with my family.

    Sometimes, when my daughter goes off on an angry rant about someone I say, “God wants you to love your enemies.” She doesn’t appreciate my saying that, but I feel I can’t let it go. I don’t want her to think I condone hateful words. What to do? She is an adult. Should I just leave it and pray for her?

  41. street says:

    Isaiah 58

    Zechariah 7

    These two chapters are very sobering. To think life is easier now and we are still struggling Spiritually. Sometimes wood, hay, or stubble. Sometimes gold, silver, precious stones.

    Belleu sounds like your acting as a Prodigal Father. You actions where backed up by faith in God. Sometimes the wait is long. Prayer can help pass the time. What a joy it is when they come home.

  42. hera says:

    God. Is there only one God? I am sorry if i digress, but since we live among people, often with different beliefs, the God that each of us worship may have different face. Muslims said they are the ones that will be saved at the end of days because, partly, they have been praying FOR (not TO) the “prophet Jesus” (Isa) while Christians said they are the ones that will be saved because they believe the Cross. Different values among people is sometimes like a land mines, never know who’d take offense and when even with the “do unto others” in mind, e.g i thought i was being attentive yet it was seen as smothering, or i thought i am giving space out of respect but it was seens as uncaring…or, it could be that i don’t have the holy spirit in me?-so i don’t know the right thing to do, so i am all clumsy and lost..? :-)

  43. street says:

    hera spend some quiet time in 1 John it always helped me out when questions arise or i need reassurance. another thing that helped me a lot was reading Galatians every night for 4 weeks it’s truth became much clearer with constant pursuit. it only takes about 20 minutes to read. I don’t remember if finished the 4 weeks. I think i quit when i understood it. might be time for me to go back and read it again. Be like Jacob keep wrestling till He Blesses you.

  44. belleu says:

    Thank you, Street for what you wrote. I feel better now. Some of my family doesn’t agree with what I do.

    Hera, if you have asked God into your life then you have the Holy Spirit in you and you are not lost. God blessings to everyone here.

  45. hera says:

    Thank you to street & belleu.

  46. SFDBWV says:

    When I was in my mid-twenties and had returned to church after a laps of several years I had the blessing of having older Christians allow me to grow and learn without being structured into instantly being at whatever level of understanding they were.

    However as I did grow and became more vocal and started asking questions, that may have questioned some of those in between me and the older members understanding, I found immediate stone walls and hard line attitudes that caused hurt feelings as well as, as our friend Hera has mentioned, confusion.

    Hera there are three things for you to do which will help you. Prayer, meditation and reading in the Bible about the questions you have.

    I guarantee the Holy Spirit will reveal to you not only your answers, but in such a way that your heart and mind will become settled and the confusion will turn to *peace*.

    You will know just because you know.

    And you won’t feel as though you have to prove it to another as the journey was meant for your enlightenment.

    But remember it is a journey of discovery, not an instant experience, though there will be an instance when it all comes together and such a moment is a very close and special one.

    A handshake, a hug an arm around your shoulder by the Lord that you will know when it occurs.

    Steve

  47. remarutho says:

    Good Morning All —

    Hearing you, Hera, it sounds like you are living in a strong Muslim community. Though I have not lived in a Muslim community, it seems to me staying as close to the Bible as Muslims stay close to the Koran brings a Jesus-follower closer to Jesus.

    One New Testament writer says, “But be doers of the word, and not merely hearers, who deceive themselves. For if any are hearers of the word and not doers, they are like those who look at themselves in a mirror; for they look at themselves and, on going away, immediately forget what they were like. But those who look into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and persevere, being not hearers who forget but doers who act — they will be blessed in their doing.” (James 1:22-25)

    As others have said, meeting with friends who are Jesus-followers to read the Bible, eat together and encourage one another in fellowship keeps us strong in the Lord.

    Blessings,
    Maru

  48. poohpity says:

    The distinct mark and nature of the good news that changed us seems to come only from who we believe in. The mark of religions is that one group has to feel superior so another will feel inferior but what our relationship to the good news seems to bring all to level ground. Religion oppresses because it is thought of in a human logic sort of way. If the God of all creation took on flesh to become one of us and humbled Himself to be sin for us so that the consequences would be paid for through Him that is not religion that shows to what extreme measures God went through to show us His love for “all” of mankind, a relationship. That is what changes people.

    People can become so busy in thinking that they are serving God in business and activities yet it seems that God wants us to sit at His feet, listening and learning from Him. The funny thing is we refer to God with gender which may cause one to feel superior to another on account of it but man/woman were made in the likeness of God, both. Jesus seems to make every attempt to show the equal ground that every human being stands on. Religion on the other hand seems to want to one up over someone else which obviously comes from the mind of humans. That does not change anyone for the better that causes more strife, division and certainly oppression.

  49. poohpity says:

    not “business” but “busyness”. lol! :-)

  50. poohpity says:

    If anyone should withhold blessings from another it is God because we repeat the same ugly behaviors over and over again yet Jesus came because of it and everything we have, has been entrusted/loaned to us and that is the glimpse of understanding we have of grace. God sees even the secret places in us which should humble anyone.

  51. street says:

    poohpity says:
    June 21, 2014 at 9:02 am

    not “business” but “busyness”. lol! :-)

    What’s the difference?

  52. street says:

    If the God of all creation took on flesh to become one of us and humbled Himself to be sin for us so that the consequences would be paid for through Him that is not religion that shows to what extreme measures God went through to show us His love for “all” of mankind, a relationship.
    belleu says:
    June 20, 2014 at 12:15 pm
    Being raised in a strict, fundamentalist church, I viewed God as looking for a reason to kill you.

    The crucifixion demonstrated God’s judgment on sin, The crucifixion of His only Son demonstrated His Love for mankind. while fixing the problem with the law He also qualified Himself to be righteousness and justice. It qualified Him to be a righteous Judge in
    Luke 19:26-28.

    Sealing us with the Holy Spirit, when we believe, is the icing on the cake.

    1John 4:18

    pray for me i am struggling with temptation, or lie again. I hate that! But I know it is my own heart that is doing it. thank you ahead of time.

  53. quietgrace says:

    Good day everyone!

    Following on the heels of your comments concerning religion Pooh, I would like to tell you all a little bit about my journey. As many know I quit going to church a bout a year ago after numerous panic attacks due to abuse suffered in churches.

    Well, I had really quit trying to go back then I came upon a book called “So You Don’t Want to Go to Church Anymore” by Jacobsen and Coleman. Even though the book is less than 200 pages I felt scared everytime I picked it up, afraid my worst fears would come true that God is disappointed in me for not attending. To the contrary, after 3 weeks of slowly and fearfully plodding through the book I discovered that it’s not the institution of the church that is at fault, it’s the people who do not understand what church really looks like, and who Jesus really is. Right now I have one Christian friend that I meet with weekly and she too having had difficult experiences in churches has stopped going.

    So the conclusion I have come to is: religion and church are not bad, but sometimes bad, or misinformed people (not really understanding Jesus message) in authority can misinform eager Christians into believing that their way is pleasing to God. And so those misinformed followers, like I was for many years, practice hard to be, act, and do what makes the leadership happy.

    So here I am and feeling good about it for the first time in many years, really. The book was an affirmation that following Christ, and not the status quo, is the narrow way-the way to joy and peace.

    I hope I’m not sounding like I am church-bashing I’m not and neither do the authors of the book. I’m just plugging along, trying to find my way through a maze of ordinary, everyday life here in the U.S.

    Thank you for listening to my story,
    Blessings, Grace

  54. quietgrace says:

    Street, praying for you.

  55. quietgrace says:

    Street I am not surprised you are under attack! Your presence here has a very calming effect on me and your use of and knowledge of scripture are extremely comforting. God bless you!

  56. street says:

    you do need to think hard about leaving a church. Church hopping is better than sitting in a really bad church.
    Jesus said my sheep hear My Voice and they fallow me. They will not fallow another. If the church makes you uncomfortable that could be a good thing or a bad thing. Search the Scriptures and you heart closely to see if you can identify what it is. Church definitely should not be a comfy careless zone.

  57. poohpity says:

    There is just one problem, there is no perfect church the minute a person walks inside. The very reason people go inside is to learn about the One who offers forgiveness, love, mercy and an overwhelming amount of grace needed by all.

    street, Luke 10:38-42 NIV hope that answers your question about busyness and a business is either 1. a person’s regular occupation, profession, or trade. 2. the practice of making one’s living by engaging in commerce. Both can take one’s eyes off the Lord when over done. One however is what God intend for us to do, (Acts 20:34-35 NIV) the other seems to be what people do to gain favor rather than just being with the Lord which will result in actions.

  58. quietgrace says:

    Thank you street I will be thinking about what you said.

  59. quietgrace says:

    Thanks pooh you are so right also! I guess I’m not looking for the ‘perfect’ church, just one I can feel safe in.

  60. street says:

    ‘When you fasted and mourned in the fifth and seventh months [d]these seventy years, was it actually for Me that you fasted? God speaking through the Zechariah

    Isaiah 58 “If because of the sabbath, you turn your foot
    From doing your own pleasure on My holy day,
    And call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable,
    And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
    From seeking your own pleasure
    And speaking your own word,
    14 Then you will take delight in the Lord,
    And I will make you ride on the heights of the earth;
    And I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father,
    For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

    I use to work a job I really loved. But I did it for me and not for God most of the time and over the years it became difficult and burdensome. finaly i had to retire because i could not do it any more. I find Isaiah 58 and Zechariah very penitrating to the heart in that many times i live for me and not for God. I am so glad Jesus did it right for me. I need to do right by Him.

  61. street says:

    quietgrace says:
    June 21, 2014 at 5:02 pm

    Thanks pooh you are so right also! I guess I’m not looking for the ‘perfect’ church, just one I can feel safe in.

    the only safe place is in Jesus!

  62. quietgrace says:

    The church is not a building, it’s wherever like-minded followers of Christ are gathered. In Jesus I have always been safe!

  63. hera says:

    Thank you to all who has responded to my posting. May God always be with you.

  64. poohpity says:

    I guess it would come down to meeting people to find out who is like minded and at times being around others that do not challenge us may not be so beneficial to our walk with the Lord because I have found that those who push me to grow in understanding seem to the better helpers than those who agree with me over everything.

    street, isn’t everything we do unto the Lord no matter what it is a job, ministry or whatever? You asked what the difference was in busyness and business. I do not know whether we are ever called to retire. Being unable to perform certain tasks is one thing but we always can be useful in some way can’t we?

  65. belleu says:

    I’m praying for you, Street and I pray we will all grow in grace and in the knowledge of God.

  66. street says:

    i guess it comes down to the motive of the heart.
    I do try to do the right thing, but i have to say God has always protected me in my failings by letting me know it was not for Him I did it. the point of Isaiah 58 and Zechariah 7 was breaking the Shema. In 1 John, when we love the world the love of the Father is not in us. That I think is what this is all about. Loving God back for who He is. The Great “I AM”
    May the Spirit of Christ find Eternal Rest in your hearts.
    Luke 9:58

  67. SFDBWV says:

    It’s been a busy Sunday morning as are most for me, but I have been thinking about the thread of conversation amongst you all.

    Hebrews 10:25 and Matthew 18:20 both come to mind.

    In the beginning there were only small gatherings of believers that came together for the comfort of being together to *worship* God and pray together for a common purpose.

    All in the *name* of Jesus.

    It is something quite interesting that in John 1:42 Jesus renamed Peter, Cephas, a stone. And in Matthew 16:17, 18, 19 it is upon this *rock* that Jesus says He will build His *church*; but it is Paul who it is written actually lays out the structure of the church and goes about establishing the best known assemblages. Though not written as much Peter is credited with the establishment of *churches* in Babylon and in the Caucasians.

    Paul’s established church in Rome became the headquarters of the Christian faith, but was that Jesus’ intent when He said He would build His church upon the *rock* referred to in Matthew 16:17, 18 19?

    Jesus is referred to as the *foundation* of our faith (1 Corinthians 3:11) as well as the *cornerstone* of the House of God, Matthew 21:42.

    There can be no church or Church without people, there can be no assembly of believers without people, there can be no *body of Christ* without people.

    We as people have to come to terms with what Jesus taught about getting along with other people and putting aside our own issues work together for the whole of Christianity and mankind.

    Organized churches have the mechanics in place to best serve the needs of people on a large scale, but one person at a time can also help one person at a time in the same name and nature of Jesus.

    We just finished talking politics, it was politics that split the Roman Catholic Church from the Eastern Orthodox Church and politics that split the Roman Catholic Church into multiple Protestant Churches. Is it still politics that continue splitting believers into smaller and smaller assemblies and does it continue until we are left alone as just one believer not wanting or needing the company of any other?

    Is that the Will of God and intentions of Jesus?

    Is it to churches or individuals that Jesus speaks to in Revelation 2 and Revelation 3?

    If we *can* we need to assemble together, if we *can’t* then we still have the fellowship of the Lord and it may be that that is all we can bear and in agreement with our Lord for us and His purpose for us.

    Stay in prayer and be blessed today.

    Steve

  68. quietgrace says:

    Good afternoon all!

    Steve I like your post. It is full of grace.

    As I have been meditating/waiting on the Lord for answers to a difficult struggle (not church related) I am having, the LORD answered my request with something that is appropriate to all situations involving relationships whether in the church or outside. I found it in I Thess. 5:12-22 NLT. As I consider Mart and this blog my ‘church’ I just want to say thank you for all of your prayers, encouragement, transparency, exhortation and love. Even though things in this life don’t always work out the way we would like them to work out, we as Christ followers have a place where we belong and can find nourishment and rest for our souls- the Body of Christ.

    Hope you all have found rest today,
    blessings, Grace

  69. Loomis says:

    Thank you for time and effort to write interesting blogs

  70. Loomis says:

    Thank you for writing an interesting blog. Thank you for taking time to do that much appreciated.

  71. street says:

    We just finished talking politics, it was politics that split the Roman Catholic Church from the Eastern Orthodox Church and politics that split the Roman Catholic Church into multiple Protestant Churches. Is it still politics that continue splitting believers into smaller and smaller assemblies and does it continue until we are left alone as just one believer not wanting or needing the company of any other?

    Is that the Will of God and intentions of Jesus?

    I think it is! God is still sovereign. Remember Paul and Timothy being split up on on mission trip?

    I also believe there is unity in the body of Christ because Jesus prayed for it. Remember Joesph’s quote,” you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good!”
    God’s Sovereignty always trumps the actions of men. We also need to keep in mind the ever present evil influences of men and ourselves. God Bless you with the Mind of Christ.

  72. poohpity says:

    street, you think it is the will of God that we live without needing the company of other believers? If that is so then why does the bible say not to give up on meeting together? (Hebrews 10:25 NLT) Don’t we need each other for encouragement, accountability, support, care and one can’t show love alone.(Ecc 4:9-12 NIV) However we do need to take time alone to be with the Lord but we were not created to be alone.

  73. poohpity says:

    street, are you all alone?

  74. street says:

    I am never alone. He is always working me over for my good and His Glory.

    street, you think it is the will of God that we live without needing the company of other believers? If that is so then why does the bible say not to give up on meeting together? (Hebrews 10:25 NLT) Don’t we need each other for encouragement, accountability, support, care and one can’t show love alone.(Ecc 4:9-12 NIV) However we do need to take time alone to be with the Lord but we were not created to be alone.

    I must admit I enjoy the company of God more then people, but I understand that God loves people too. Apart from people Faith can not work it’s way out in love. Galatians 5:6. And it is work.

    another thought about this thread is all the competing voices over interpretation of the Bible.

    2 My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism.

    In the garden there was a competing voice present that left us on a collision coarse with death. today there are more voices, but the same source. when we run into different opinions of text in the Bible it is supremely important to distinguish which voice we listen too. I have heard that to obey at it’s root means to “listen”.
    at it’s heart all of the Bible is important for us to understand. when there is different opinions one or more people are missing the purpose God intended. Our Shepherd is Faithful.

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