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Peace on Earth

Mart De Haan Posted by Mart DeHaan
December 23rd, 2014
73 Comments » 

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Flickr photo by Michael

Moments of peace point beyond themselves to One far better than ourselves.

Sainsbury’s, the third largest chain of supermarkets in the UK, has produced a Christmas 2014 Ad that rises above its commercial interests.

In attempting to re-create a World War 1 Christmas “miracle”, it provides a taste of peace, foreseen in an ancient prophecy of Isaiah.

If you haven’t seen it, here are the links to the short video, to the historical story behind it, and another describing the making of the commercial.

Sainsbury’s OFFICIAL Christmas 2014 Ad

The Story behind the ad     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s1YvnfcFVs

The Making of the ad  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx3pQWbysmM

(Isaiah 2:1-4)

(Isaiah 9:6-7)


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73 Responses to “Peace on Earth”

  1. SFDBWV says:
    December 23, 2014 at 6:16 am

    I certainly have read about and seen reproductions of the Christmas “truce” during WWI and another situation during WWII. In the end of both stories each man picked up their guns and returned to the gruesome task of warfare.

    Interesting that WWI was considered to be the war to end all wars and yet there has been nothing but warfare since.

    Disturbing still is that God Himself will draw all the armies of the world together in a great “final” battle before His return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

    I have always been an amateur student of WWI and go on and on about how it all came together, but one scene stands out in my mind when thinking of today’s subject; posters depicting the Germans killing women and children and showing the German soldier as the devil.

    After all it is easier to kill the devil than someone who looks just like you and sings Christmas carols.

    Today in Syria and areas of Iraq and Kurdistan ISIS forces are said to be using old churches as torture houses, crucifying children and beheading Christians in particular.

    We just recently read of the Taliban murdering children in a school and burning their teachers.

    It’s hard to know what to believe in a world where others influence our thinking. But when faced with such evil, it causes men once again to believe they can set things straight with weapons used against other men.

    Even though the ad said Christmas is a season for giving, it is much more than giving and receiving and for a brief moment the men of this story experienced it.

    Steve

  2. poohpity says:
    December 23, 2014 at 8:54 am

    All it takes is getting rid of hate and anger in one heart at a time.

  3. remarutho says:
    December 23, 2014 at 10:14 am

    Good Morning BTA Friends —

    The story of the Christmas Day Truce is a little slice of heaven itself. How every creature longs for this Peace! Time to ponder this Prince of Peace. The Prophet Isaiah reports that “His authority shall grow continually, and there shall be endless peace for the throne of David and his kingdom.”

    If every heart yearns for all things to be put right this way, then our prayers for freeing of the oppressed must be fervent and continual. God has promised: “He will establish and uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forward and forevermore. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will do this.”

    My heart is full seeing God’s zeal transform a military “no man’s land” into a soccer field. It is a taste of “home” as much as a Christmas cookie or a bar of chocolate. Lord, let the hope of Messiah enter every heart today.

    Joy at Advent,
    Maru

  4. rokdude5 says:
    December 23, 2014 at 10:35 am

    Merry Christmas BTA-ers,

    I pray that our troops especially in those hotspots will be well guarded and cared for. And of course, I pray for peace for all.

    Blessings,
    RJ

  5. joycemb says:
    December 23, 2014 at 12:31 pm

    Maru I have the same feeling of fullness in my heart after reading and watching the videos in Marts exquisite post. Not much else to say but “Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven”. What a glorious hope we have to look forward to when Christ’s kingdom covers the whole earth.

    Merry happy Jesus Birthday to all,
    Joyce

  6. oneg2dblu says:
    December 23, 2014 at 2:06 pm

    Nothing tugs on our heart strings more powerfully than showing compassion on another, and the harder it is to do, the better an act it is, and to the extreme of death, even Divine.
    Great moments like those are not soon forgotten, like the scene in War Horse, when the soldier seeing the suffering of his enemies horse, threw his foe a pair of pliers to help him free the horse.
    I remember an account given by John McCain while being held captive in Japan. His punishment/torture was to be tied up in an extremely painful and crippling position for long periods of time, actually the whole day.
    I know he will never forget the moment one of his guards came into his cell and loosened his bindings for several hours, an action for which the guard would have been shot to death. As the guard was leaving the cell he smiled and drew a figure of the cross on the wall with his finger, it was also another unforgettable Christmas Day of Divine Intervention mixed with human compassion.
    May we each have one and Praise God for it!
    Gary

  7. lovely says:
    December 24, 2014 at 2:47 am

    Yes, I’ll pray for God’s Compassion to flow to all nations even today that war may cease ..

  8. SFDBWV says:
    December 24, 2014 at 6:54 am

    “Peace on Earth”

    I am reminded everywhere I look in this season of that announcement that the angels proclaimed to the young shepherds so very long ago (Luke 2:8-20).

    “The first evangelists were shepherds. It was a task for which they had no skill, no special gift. No theological teaching or individual training. They had no organization to go before them and no literature to leave behind them. What they had and all they had was a divine encounter.” (An excerpt from “Moments with the Savior” by Ken Gire)

    This announcement was and is that God has made peace between He and man and that “peace” is personified in Jesus of Nazareth.

    However Jesus Himself said that He did not come to give peace on earth, but rather division. (Luke 12:51)

    Men will be divided about who Jesus is and there will be no peace between them over that one fact. Warfare between men has gone on and continue over the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth and there is no peace between men on earth all the while that fact isn’t settled in the hearts and minds of everyone everywhere.

    However God offers peace between Him and us through Jesus and that Peace was born of the Virgin Mary and we celebrate His coming during this season and like the shepherds of old the story becomes an opportunity to introduce God’s Peace on earth and His goodwill towards all men everywhere.

    I hope all of you have a very blessed Christmas Eve and your miracle comes this season.

    Steve

  9. tracey5tgbtg says:
    December 24, 2014 at 8:34 am

    I watched the clip. I cried. I flat out cried. God gives these fleeting glimpses of heaven to us while we are here on earth.

    It’s so easy to see these moments and think if only we could just hold on to them. If we could just let go of evil, hatred and anger and always be filled with love. And we want to. We long for that.

    But I don’t see that happening on while we are in the flesh. Not until Jesus returns. We won’t see heaven until we see God face to face. While we are on earth, self always pushes to the front before we can stop it.

    But He does give us these moments, when our souls can briefly see the absolute peace that awaits us.

  10. street says:
    December 24, 2014 at 1:47 pm

    i wonder what would have happen if when the shelling started again that a soldier would have sat down and refused to go back to killing his neighbor.

    saw a piece of mail from a christian org. with holy war written on the envelope. to be sure this is the devils stock and trade and God uses it to bring about His purposes. it reminded me of God’s stock and trade, Holy Judgement. this is the other end of the spectrum of the Incarnation. when God took on human form, He made man infinitely valuable. we were made in His image. you know why He came in human form. Emanuel, God with us, Holy Spirit dwelling in us. He does all things well. to Him be Glory, Honor, Praise, Thanksgiving, and Worship.

  11. hera says:
    December 24, 2014 at 4:24 pm

    Tracey, ditto – the sentiments :-)
    Inner Peace. Serenity. Tranquility.
    Aiming, striving towards those, always, amidst all around the worldly..
    May God always grant me…walking beside me….
    May all have a very merry Christmas, filled with love, warmth, cosy, cuddles..:-)
    …and a well-blessed year ahead!

  12. Regina says:
    December 24, 2014 at 9:17 pm

    Good Evening All,
    Haven’t read Mart’s blog topic yet, but I want to wish you all a MERRY CHRISTMAS Eve! It’s an exceedingly abundant blessing to have lived to see another Christmas, and I pray that all is well in your lives!

    Love to all…

    41 degrees in Texas right now…

  13. SFDBWV says:
    December 25, 2014 at 6:36 am

    Merry Christmas everyone.

    It is a very normal Thursday morning at our house, Matt and I got awake and up at 4:14 am, the only difference being as he had his breakfast he watched “Christmas Story” on TV. It’s the now famous story about the 9 year old wanting a BB gun for Christmas.

    He is napping now and given me time enough to pen off a little Christmas wish for Bob of Cornwall England and a little comment here. I sent Pearl an email note yesterday and hope to send Pat one later this morning.

    I did read a disturbing story on BBC Magazine this morning about how the French government has down-played the Christmas truce story of WWI even going so far as to sequester the story and consider the soldiers involved as guilty of fraternizing with the enemy.

    Even though they are calling for snow showers today, we are only at 35 degrees wet and foggy as we await sunrise, so no white Christmas this morning in the traditional sense.

    I was blessed to see the story of how the song “Silent Night” came into being on PBS last evening.

    I pray all of you are blessed today in whatever form it is that brings you happiness and Joy.

    Merry Christmas from the Durst family.
    Steve, Glenna and Matthew

  14. jeff1 says:
    December 25, 2014 at 8:22 am

    I have often thought that the men who start the wars should be put in a room with each other until they sort out their differences which has to happen sooner or later and would save all the wars but life’s not that simple, when you think how many had to loose their lives and are still loosing their lives today.

    Have a blessed Christmas and New Year.

  15. poohpity says:
    December 25, 2014 at 10:23 am

    As I look in the mirror I grow more thankful for just exactly why there was a need to lay His Glory down to come to our rescue. May God give you more and more grace and peace as you grow in your knowledge of God and Jesus Christ our Lord through the faith given to us through the Holy Spirit.

    Merry Christmas in love,
    Deborah

  16. SFDBWV says:
    December 26, 2014 at 6:46 am

    In watching the PBS specials concerning the 100th anniversary of the beginning of WWI I am once again reminded of how very different we are from the men and women of that generation.

    Here in my little home town when growing up there was a woman who was a Sunday school teacher and worked at the post office who was the widow of a soldier killed during WWI.

    She was a beautiful person inside and out, but I never really knew how much until I grew up and was able to see more clearly.

    She was only married to her husband a few months before America joined the war and her husband sent off to a foreign land never to return alive.

    He is buried in our cemetery with a very large marker, one of the largest, and in the church where she was a Sunday school teacher is a very beautiful stained glass window dedicated to his memory.

    She never remarried and spent her life here where they were young and in love. A model Christian, person and citizen, rare perhaps even in her day, but certainly rare today.

    Sometimes forgotten in the stories of war are the other victims who are left to live out their lives without the person they loved so much and were taken so young.

    For Mrs. Mason when the time of her death came, I hope her husband was there to greet her upon her arrival in heaven because that’s how I believe heaven to be, a place where our deepest desires are met and our worst fears allayed.

    Steve

  17. remarutho says:
    December 26, 2014 at 11:19 am

    Good Morning BTA Friends —

    This whole matter of Peace on Earth is such an elusive thing! Prayers and greetings at Christmas all speak longingly and fervently of Peace — God’s Peace. Yet, our “peace-making” has looked like war for most of human history — consider the Pax Romana (the peace of Rome) which often meant that a people were forcefully intimidated into being quiet and compliant. This is not peace in any time of history.

    WW I was the first taste, it seems to me, of wholesale mechanized and methodical destruction of human life. Perhaps the American Civil War came close, but WW I had more rapid-fire artillery plus poisonous chemicals that maim and kill.

    The outbreak of peace at the Christmas Day Truce is still a vital issue in our time. Recall, you elder members of BTA, when young folks were asking, “What if they gave a war, and nobody came?” back in the 1970s. What would Peace-keeping look like if the Holy Spirit of God through Christ our Lord “invaded” every human heart? For now, it seems to me, this is a vital point of prayer.

    In the Name of the Prince of Peace —

    Joy at Christmastide,
    Maru

  18. street says:
    December 26, 2014 at 1:50 pm

    This whole matter of Peace on Earth is such an elusive thing! Prayers and greetings at Christmas all speak longingly and fervently of Peace — God’s Peace.

    you are right, but Jesus came to divide with a sword. this separation gives us peace with God, the One we really need peace with. hold on to this peace, the world keeps trying to take it away. don’t be anxious, He is Faithful and Able to protect what is entrusted to Him.

  19. oneg2dblu says:
    December 26, 2014 at 6:36 pm

    Yes, so elusive to the world is this Peace on Earth as we need only to listen to it’s news daily, because God’s Peace comes through the division caused by His Double Edged Sword, the very Word of God which the world hates..
    It is none other than our natural sinful desires and the sins of this world that battle against the word, and losing that battle daily is what separates us from God.

    It does not separate His Love for us, but our love for other worldly things is what gets in the way and causes this separation.

    “Where are you Adam?”

    The only thing that divides or stands between us and the world, and us and the Way, is the sword, the Word of God.

    The more we support our love for the things of this world, those things that do not align with His Word yet feel so right with the world, the more we will find our peace with the world instead.

    John 14:27 “Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you.
    I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your heats be troubled and do not be afraid.”

    John 15:18,19 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own.
    As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.”

    If we are at peace with this world, are we not then on the losing side of the battle?

    Where is your peace and love found?
    Gary

    So, where God’s Peace is found in the narrow way,
    the world’s way is wide to destruction.

  20. poohpity says:
    December 27, 2014 at 1:01 pm

    Peace on earth is accomplished through trusting, depending and relying on/in God. Then we can become peacemakers. ( Matt 5:9 NLT; James 3:18 NLT)

  21. joycemb says:
    December 28, 2014 at 1:32 pm

    Greetings all!

    I have been thinking about a holiday truce and what a wonderful tradition it could become if all families were to decide to lay aside their gripes for a few hours each year and only focus on how they can show love to one another while gazing at the previous baby in the manger.

    Probably just wishful thinking but I won’t give up hope as long as The Lord of our hope exists.

    As we look forward to a new year perhaps we can all figure out a way to love that difficult-to-love one as Christ had loved us.

    Grace and peace to all
    Joyce

  22. joycemb says:
    December 28, 2014 at 2:11 pm

    Precious, not previous.

  23. bubbles says:
    December 28, 2014 at 4:29 pm

    There’s a picture of the WWI truce circulating that has the words “If they can get along for one day, you can get along with your relatives too.” I know they took something very serious and made light of it, however there is truth in that. I don’t think the one who added the words meant disrespect of their circumstances.

  24. joycemb says:
    December 28, 2014 at 5:13 pm

    Bubbles I agree, it’s all about perspective, isn’t it? When we compare our family squabbles to a world war what is so difficult to ignore for a few hours (in hopes that it will be the start of something longer lasting). I like what you said.

  25. oneg2dblu says:
    December 28, 2014 at 5:36 pm

    Yes, peace is accomplished by those things, and blessed are the peace makers for they will know God.
    But, all the Nobel Prize winners in the world can not bring God’s peace into the world, only God can bring world peace.
    Having said all that which is true, we truly live in a world that does not yet know God’s peace.
    So, in this world where the road to destruction is wide, we will always have much distrust, self-dependency, lack of godly principles and godly people, which in the end will bring about the wars and rumors of wars, evil of all types, idol worship, sexual immorality, and many other sins which will not be repented of and never promote God’s peace on earth.
    As we see in the last chapters of the word of God, those written in Revelation by John about the end of times, where these ugly behaviors are never overcome or repented by most of mankind who never really find that narrow road.
    Revelation 9:20,21 will prove the point for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, or those who will believe the words written there and find peace in all of them.
    Be Blessed, Gary

  26. joycemb says:
    December 28, 2014 at 7:45 pm

    “Lord make me an instrument of Your peace”.
    This is written on a cross on my wall to remind me of God’s will.

  27. bubbles says:
    December 28, 2014 at 8:08 pm

    I’ve got that hanging on my wall in 2 rooms. It’s a lovely and convicting poem.

  28. poohpity says:
    December 29, 2014 at 10:41 am

    How can one be an instrument of peace unless one has experienced it in their own life first? It seems to me it is not something one can do by self will it comes from knowing the One who has all things in His capable, worthy hands. Peace is a gift given to those who believe in the Lord and seek to grow in their knowledge and understanding of the One they profess to worship.

    I would then come to the conclusion if one grumbles and complains about many things, even those hard to love people peace will be very elusive like chasing the wind.

  29. joycemb says:
    December 29, 2014 at 12:24 pm

    Lovely,
    prayers going up for the friends and family of the airliner that went down. Please let us know if you were personally affected.

    Pooh your last post is an example of what you are speaking about. I hope you take this with the love it is shared with. In case you are not understanding me it is very negative. Joyce

  30. joycemb says:
    December 29, 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Pooh you once said to me in private that what bothers me about you is what is also in my heart. You are so right and thank you for being brutally honest with me. Yes, I too carry negativity in my own heart. It is only by the grace of God that we can allow God to heal our hearts; ha He even heals when we have no idea what He’s doing!

  31. poohpity says:
    December 29, 2014 at 1:40 pm

    Oh my gosh Joyce. How is it negative by saying what the Bible teaches about peace? Peace comes by the fruit of the Spirit. It is nothing we can accomplish on our own it is by trusting in God. You seem to take it as a negative because that seems to be how you think, not even close to what I was saying, thinking or feeling as usual. Taking something that is kind and caring turning it into something ugly. That is the very reason I stopped talking with you outside of here and frankly that is why I try not to reply to you on here either. You hear by the measures in your own heart not listening with the intent to know someone else.

  32. poohpity says:
    December 29, 2014 at 1:42 pm

    The thing that you said I said is not true either, that may be what you heard not what was actually said.

  33. joycemb says:
    December 29, 2014 at 2:14 pm

    Oh my.,,

  34. joycemb says:
    December 29, 2014 at 2:20 pm

    Let’s call a truce then and agree we hear differently. That’s peace on earth.

  35. joycemb says:
    December 29, 2014 at 2:32 pm

    I remember a whole different way that our relationship ended than you portray here also. Just sayin’…….

    Peace

  36. joycemb says:
    December 29, 2014 at 2:36 pm

    Mart and all I am sorry that what I intended to glorify God turned ugly and that you all have to read this.
    My apologies, Joyce

  37. oneg2dblu says:
    December 29, 2014 at 2:55 pm

    No Jesus, No Peace
    Know Jesus, Know Peace

  38. poohpity says:
    December 29, 2014 at 3:03 pm

    I am sure you do remember it in a whole different way, I have no doubts about that. I have no reason to call a truce when I have no bad feelings towards you but please before you attribute something I write to be negative or ugly ask for clarification rather than assuming or jumping to conclusions.

  39. oneg2dblu says:
    December 29, 2014 at 3:36 pm

    joycemb… thanks, apology accepted.
    Everyone gets a turn at showing their humanity here, as none are perfect quite yet, and many survive with their abundant grace intact and showing as well.

    A quick apology shows much about a persons hear.

    Be Blessed,
    Gary

  40. oneg2dblu says:
    December 29, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    A QUICK APOLOGY SHOWS MUCH ABOUT A PERSON HEART.

  41. oneg2dblu says:
    December 29, 2014 at 3:53 pm

    caps stuck,,, sorry!

  42. phpatato says:
    December 29, 2014 at 10:47 pm

    Any apology shows much about a person because it takes a big person to admit wrong and to stand up and apologise, even if it isn’t done as quickly as it should be. Unfortunately, there are some who rarely ever apologise. That too speaks volumes as to what lies in their heart, to me anyway. It is also a testament as to how small they really are.

    Joyce, you are a giant. You are always quick to apologise and most times even when you don’t have to.

    Peace dear Sister.

  43. SFDBWV says:
    December 30, 2014 at 6:32 am

    In the annals of Greek philosophy there is an eccentric character named Diogenes who, as a form of social criticism, was said to carry a lantern in broad daylight claiming to be looking for an honest man.

    He is worth the read.

    Peace is the most fragile of all experiences of life. As it can be gone in the blink of an eye.

    Even within the solitude of our own hearts when we allow worry, fear or anger to creep in, those emotions or the cause of them steal our peace from us.

    Every war, every battle leaves scars; it is recorded even in Revelation that when the Lamb of God appears in order to open the seals that He appeared as had been slain. (Revelation 5:6)

    It seems that Our Lord has had no peace either, as He took on himself all the brokenness of the world of men.

    It seems that war rages all around us and in us, all the time we live, with only momentary periods of peace.

    I pray that today all of you experience peace in your lives, even if just for the moment. Savor it and let it give you rest.

    Steve

  44. remarutho says:
    December 30, 2014 at 9:33 am

    Good Morning All —

    Thanks for that, Steve! It seems to me that these few days between Christmas and New Year when the old year is exhaling and the new year is drawing its first breath — barring crises — is a time of peace. Read John 16 last evening and thought of what you say: Jesus forfeited his peace to establish yours and mine.

    “Jesus answered them, ‘Do you now believe? Behold, an hour is coming, and has already come, for you to be scattered, each to his own home, and to leave Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me. These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.’” –So ends chapter 16. All of John 17 is the prayer Jesus prayed over his disciples (us).

    With Jesus’ intercession and the working of the blessed Holy Spirit, we may hold fast to the peace Jesus has established by his sacrifice.

    Love, Joy and Peace to All
    now and in the coming year,
    Maru

  45. poohpity says:
    December 30, 2014 at 11:00 am

    I guess I am confused how could Jesus forfeit His peace? The peace that Jesus brought was the restoration of a relationship between God and man or in other words Peace between God and man. (Romans 5:1) That does not seem to mean the absence of trials, troubles, sorrows or grief those things we are promised will happen but by that restoration of a relationship we can when rely on God who gave us a helper to carry us through. If we live in spiritual harmony with God then that seems to overflow into our lives with others. (John 14:27) Being secure in that relationship also seems to bring about a peace. (John 10:28)

  46. joycemb says:
    December 30, 2014 at 11:49 am

    Maru yes the end of the old and the hope and promise of a new year with its endless possibilities is worth taking a deep breath over. As family difficulties clouded my celebrations this year I decided that the new year was going to be better, and after making that decision the idea came to invite all my children to a gathering after Christmas at a neutral place, a community center where the little ones can play freely and the bigger ones have room to stretch and move about when tensions start to rise. They all agreed so I am thrilled and will be happy just to see their faces even if few meaningful words are exchanged.

    One of my favorite scriptures is Romans 12:18 NLT, in fact the whole chapter tells how Christians are to conduct themselves to be at peace in the world.

    Steve I too had never thought of God as giving up His peace for us by coming to earth in flesh, but it does make sense. I once wrote a song asking Jesus if the rocks and pebbles hurt his feet as he walked the dusty streets; I was thinking about how he must have endured suffering as we all do, and how amazing that God walked in his broken, cursed creation. In that sense he did give up his peace for us. Astounding and humbling and gratefully blessed we are to know him.

    Enjoy the hope that is ours through Christ Jesus all!
    Joyce

  47. oneg2dblu says:
    December 30, 2014 at 1:15 pm

    Steve… thanks for that momentary peace offering.
    I’ll take each one with a smile. :)
    The greatest testimony of living this life, is living this life with Christ as we are never alone, but only separated by our sin as long as we chose to continue to sin.
    If we chose to sin, we chose to suffer.
    Making even more valid our need to quickly act in repentance and in its moment, lies a true land of peace. A restoration, a return of our right relationship with Him.
    An apology is not really the same as repenting, though it is a recognition of a trespass and the need to correct one’s way.
    True repentance is found in one no longer needing that correction, it is receiving the gift of overcoming, the condition of being restored and rendered right.
    The washing of the soiled garment, if you will, and the pure white result, of fresh forgiveness.
    What is most telling in Revelation is that even as all these plagues and destruction are raining down on the earth, many still would not repent.
    Believing that no one can pluck you out of the Father’s Hand, is certainly being misused by certain doctrinal teachers to support their false teaching, but clearly many can and do fall awa, and do not return to a right relationship, accept they repent.
    According to the written word,in times of testing many fail to remain spiritually alive.
    I will back this up with actual verses later for those who will not accept what may be considered here as “My twisted view…”

    Do not be complacent in finding some type of false peace while living in your sins, thinking that your sins are already forgiven and can not possibly ever harm your destiny.

    Unfortunately, that is today a very popular belief that innocently deceives multitudes.

    Know what you sow, and reap the consequences.

    Peace to All, Gary

  48. joycemb says:
    December 30, 2014 at 3:31 pm

    Gary you mentioned Revelation so wanted to mention that the History channel had Part I Revelation: End of Days on last night and I found it very good. Part II Trumpets Sound is on tonight. It’s pre- trib for those dispensationalists.

  49. poohpity says:
    December 30, 2014 at 4:35 pm

    Gary, so Jesus saying that no one can pluck me out of His hand was a lie? The only condition I see in that is we are His in the first place. Please tell me one person on this earth who does not sin excluding Jesus of course, that is not saying we intentionally live to sin but now we live for Christ. His Spirit living in us changes the direction of our lives but we will never be sinless but we will sin less. I believe that Jesus died for me while I was a sinner and had not learned of His sacrifice yet you know the Good News. His assurance that I am His and He is mine would give anyone peace on earth.

    Thinking or believing that there is some way anything or anybody can take me away from the Lord would evoke fear and uncertainty which is far from peace.

  50. oneg2dblu says:
    December 30, 2014 at 5:11 pm

    joyce… thanks for the heads up on that series. I would enjoy watching it I’m sure.

  51. street says:
    December 30, 2014 at 5:55 pm

    he who has been forgiven little, loves little.
    he who has been forgiven much, loves much.

    39 And no one, after drinking old wine wishes for new; for he says, ‘The old is good enough.’”

  52. jeff1 says:
    December 30, 2014 at 6:56 pm

    Yes Pooh, the Bible tells us exactly that, the characters often fell away from what was godly but God never gave up on them but it takes a mother to understand that I think, I don’t mean to be sexist but even when a Child is wayward a mother’s love prevails.

    God knows his own and nothing will separate us from God’s love, this is the Gospel of Christ.

  53. oneg2dblu says:
    December 30, 2014 at 7:05 pm

    Pooh… there you go, making me out to say something extreme, that I make Christ a liar?

    You surely do push the extremes to the limit when you present it that way, don’t you?

    Unfortunately, that scripture does not make all others scriptures that say repentance after initial salvation is still available for those who have fall away, it is valid to restoring one’s relationship with Christ.

    I’m not making Christ out to be a liar, which is your demeaning point, but, I’m saying there are other verses that would qualify for other possibilities.

    Rather then putting those extremes in our statements about others hearts or their thinking, why not let the word fully speak for itself?

    Are we to believe that according to the scriptures, it is possible to:
    fall away, Matthew 11:6,
    fall away from grace, Galatians 5:4
    fall away in times of testing, Luke 8:13
    to disown Christ, Mark 14:27,29
    wander away, Matthew 18: 12,13
    wander from the faith, 1 Timothy 6:10,21
    wander from truth and destroy the faith of others,
    2 Timothy 2:18
    lose your saltiness, Luke 14: 34,35
    turn back and no longer follow Jesus, John 6:66
    have your faith shipwrecked, 1 Timothy 1:19
    become lukewarm and get spit out of the body of Christ,
    Revelation 3:15,16
    be carried away by lawless men and fall from your secure position, 2 Peter 3:17
    be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings, Hebrews 13:9
    have God take away your share in the tree of life and in the holy city, Revelation 22:19
    not remain faithful and be hurt by the second death, Revelation 2:10,11
    fall away to the point where you can’t be renewed by repentance, Hebrews 6:6
    turn away from him who warns us from heaven, Hebrews 12:25
    acquire a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God, Hebrews 3:12
    turn your ears away from truth and turn aside to myths,
    2 Timothy 4:4
    turn away and follow Satan, 1 Timothy 5:15
    depart from the faith, 1 Timothy 4:1
    go astray, John 16:1

    I see in these scriptures that there “are other possibilities” presented in the word of God, and for a reason, which may not represent someone else plucking you out of God’s Hand,
    but certainly represent a loss of faith after initial salvation.
    Some here however, must turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to these verses, just to support a most harmful false teachings about their salvation.
    There are other verses as well, but I think perhaps my point has been well substantiated.
    Don’t be deceived, according to scripture, many spiritual tragedies are possible, as taught by Christ and by others.
    But, don’t take my word on these, take God’s.

    There is still time for repentance even if you have been believed in the past brethren and feel forever secure through some modern teaching, but realize there is a possibly you may have been deceived, or have fallen away from that secure place where you once were.

    Sorry for the length of this post folks, but not for its message, or its given purpose or its intensity, for your eternity may just be at stake for simply not repenting from your sins which you feel will not jeopardize your formally secure position.
    Be Blessed, Gary

    Are my thoughts on repentance are of no use for you?

    How about all the others in the church today, those who say they are in Christ but also living in unrepentant sin?

    Those who are considered to be our brethren, our brothers and sisters in the family of God, is repentance
    of any value to them?

    If Not…

    Does that position also lineup with all other scripture?

  54. oneg2dblu says:
    December 30, 2014 at 7:17 pm

    My verses are from the NIV, but the ESV does not relay what words I wish to imply here.
    The very first one in Matthew 11:6 NIV says, “Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me.”
    ESV does not use the words “fall away” in this verse, so the point I am trying to make, is lost when not read in the NIV.
    I do not know why the ESV is the default translation, but words do make a difference.
    It is possible for one to fall away, according to the scriptures I read daily.
    Does one speak truth and the other a lie, or is each one speaking in the same voice, but for a reason also using different words?

  55. oneg2dblu says:
    December 30, 2014 at 7:46 pm

    To my point again…but now belabored, my Zondervan NIV Study Bible, a 2008 updated version reads as follows, “Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me.”
    Bibles are tweaking, updating, changing language, and hopefully not unintentionally misleading any into complacency about our needing to remain faithful until the end, to receive our crown of salvation.
    Revelation 2:10,11 “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you a crown of life.”
    11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.”
    Gary

  56. poohpity says:
    December 30, 2014 at 9:49 pm

    Gary, anyone can take verses out of context to prove their point but left in like for instance Mark 14:27-29 Jesus was explaining what would happen to His disciples when Jesus was being crucified. Peter said emphatically that he would not fall away but he did in fact he went as far as to deny he even knew Jesus but Jesus did not allow him to be snatched from His hand. Galatians is talking about those who were freed from the law but fell away from grace to live back under the law again feeling that what Jesus did was not good enough similar to what you teach. Then in Luke it was talking about the different hearts that say they believe in Christ but when life does not turn out like they want “they walked away” Christ did not walk away from them so did they truly really ever believe in the first place. So not one of those verses says anything about anyone being taken/snatched/plucked out of the hand of God.

  57. phpatato says:
    December 30, 2014 at 11:43 pm

    Gary

    This is from the website Grace to You as taught by John MacArthur, Pastor/Teacher and President of The Master’s College and Seminary. I have edited it to keep it short but have tried to highlight the important parts in an effort to reply to your comments.

    His lesson – Sealed with the Holy Spirit

    You were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance (Ephesians 1:13–14)

    As one means of guaranteeing His promises to those who have received Jesus Christ, God has sealed [them] in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise. Every believer is given the very Holy Spirit of God the moment he trusts in Christ. “You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwell-s in you,” Paul declares (Rom. 8:9a). Conversely, he goes on to say, “If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him” (v. 9b). Incredibly, the body of every true Christian is actually “a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in [him]” (1 Cor. 6:19).

    When a person becomes a Christian, the Holy Spirit takes up residence in his life. Life in Jesus Christ is different because the Spirit of God is now within. He is there to empower us, equip us for ministry, and function through the gifts He has given us. The Holy Spirit is our Helper and Advocate. He protects and encourages us. He also guarantees our inheritance in Jesus Christ.

    The sealing of which Paul speaks here refers to an official mark of identification that was placed on a letter, contract, or other important document. The seal usually was made from hot wax, which was placed on the document and then impressed with a signet ring. The document was thereby officially identified with and under the authority of the person to whom the signet belonged.

    That is the idea behind our being sealed in Him [Christ] with the Holy Spirit of promise. The seal of God’s Spirit in the believer signifies four primary things: security, authenticity, ownership, and authority.

    Security – In an infinitely greater way, the Holy Spirit secures each believer, marking him with His own inviolable seal.

    Authenticity – When God gives us His Holy Spirit, it is as if He stamps us with a seal that reads, “This person belongs to Me and is an authentic citizen of My divine kingdom and member of My divine family.”

    Ownership – When the Holy Spirit seals believers, He marks them as God’s divine possessions, who from that moment on entirely and eternally belong to Him, The Spirit’s seal declares the transaction of salvation as divinely official and final.

    Authority – When Christians are sealed with the Holy Spirit they are delegated to proclaim, teach, minister, and defend God’s Word and His gospel with the Lord’s own authority.

    So in total agreement with Deb, no Born Again believer/Christian/Child of God (or whatever else our names titles are) can be taken/snatched/plucked out of the hand of God. We wear a hot wax seal by the Holy Spirit’s own signet ring!!! Satan hasn’t the power to break that seal.

    If you are still in disagreement, perhaps you can contact Mr MacArthur and have him explain it a bit better? There is a contact us section on the website.

    In Love and Peace

    Pat

  58. cbrown says:
    December 30, 2014 at 11:53 pm

    I just listened to “Discover the Word”for 12/30 and the discussion centered around
    “jars of clay” that hold the Light.The point was made that we are clay in the Potters hands.Gary, usually you reflect that sentiment but today you seem to be saying if the jar is not perfect the jar and the Light it holds we be thrown away. Happy New Year! to you and all my dear “friends” in “Been Thinking about. Thank you Mart for this Blog,I believe we have discovered more about God’s love together.

  59. cbrown says:
    December 30, 2014 at 11:59 pm

    holds will be thrown away. “Been Thinking About”

  60. lovely says:
    December 31, 2014 at 3:52 am

    Hi all
    Its been a busy month of December and with so much happening . I really wonder what’s with all these planes disappearing? I heard that the 3 Passenger. Korean are a pastor family. One of the common question our people raise especially in church. Why has God allowed these to happen? If He is truly God why can’t He stop this.The same question could have been raise for the victims of WWI.How do you think we can answer these questions
    Lovely

  61. oneg2dblu says:
    December 31, 2014 at 2:01 pm

    cbrown… I don’t feel because the pot is broken or flawed it is also thrown away, because we are all broken vessels before the potter puts His Hands on us and remakes us into useful objects.
    Having said that, He also says that every branch that does not produce good fruit is cut off and thrown in the fire.
    Put then people would say, you were never a branch connected to the vine to begin with, because saying that, as their fail safe reply, tries to protect their falsely taught beliefs.

    pooh…
    Being spit out of the mouth of Christ for being lukewarm, is not being plucked out of his hand either, but it is being rejected by him.
    Too bad you have to say such things as those disciples who walked away never really were His. That is all part of this process to protect your beliefs!

    pat… love the signet ring story how true that is was and is still being used today, but now is commonly a permanent stamp being impressed on a document.

    Making that seal seen by all as the documents authenticity, however, the Christian who bears the seal or mark of the Holy Spirit you are sharing here, (which I would like to read for myself in the scriptures in you would be so kinds as to direct me to it,) seems to be unseen by those who claim they can sin like a bandit and still be always marked as worthy goods.
    That means the town drunkard could have the mark, the serial killer could have the mark, the rapist, the child molester, the adulterer, the liar, the rest of us born again believers regardless of how we live, are marked for the highest position in all humanity, on thier way to eternity in heaven?
    That is the rubbish talk that only comes from the mouths of those who must say such to protect their false teaching.
    I thought I read somewhere is Revelation, and in other places a list of those behaviors that “will not” enter the Kingdom.
    But, if your beliefs say otherwise, then they are yours and not mine, because I am just foolish enough to believe what the words says in Revelation 21:8:

    “As for the cowardly, however, and the unbelieving, and the depraved, the murders, the immoral, those practicing magic arts, and idolaters, and all liars, their lot is the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This is the second death.”

    Using my pocket Gideon’s right now, so I’ll stop here for now, but will share the rest later, for further clarification for those who still believe something else.

    Like pooh says, anyone can take verses “out of contest,’ to prove a point. Like saying the Galatians lost their grace because they became law burdened again?

    How stupid they were to not to continue to be lawless, apparently that is the preferred way to keep grace?

    Or were the very laws they “were actually talking about additional and different than the Ten Commandments?

    My point here is this, Isn’t a murderer, a murderer whether he murders before or after his salvation?

    I’ll chase that one down so I do not take it out of context.

  62. cbrown says:
    December 31, 2014 at 3:42 pm

    Gary, how can someone who is “born again” be unborn?

  63. oneg2dblu says:
    December 31, 2014 at 6:13 pm

    cbrown… how can the born again, (those who hear the word and believe,) be unborn?
    Well, we are talking about spiritual life here in that question, so, to keep it in context, let’s see what the Lord himself says about that one…
    Matthew 13:11,18-23 “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.
    This why I speak in parables:
    “Though seeing, they do not see;
    though hearing they do not hear or understand.”
    18 Listen to what the parable of the sower means:
    When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches it away what was sown in his heart.
    (they remain dead, no born again experience has taken place in them)
    This is the seed sown along the path.
    The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. (the seed is reborn in him and lives)
    But, since he has no root, he lasts only a short time.
    When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. ( born again and dies)
    The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.
    But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred , sixty, or thirty times what was sown.”
    But you already know this about how some seed spring to life, which means it is reborn, living, and is then dead again, or unborn.
    I hope that answers your question, but it does not work well with certain false beliefs, and teaching which say once born again, always born again.
    My paraphrase if you will.
    Peace Brother, Gary

  64. phpatato says:
    December 31, 2014 at 9:52 pm

    Gary

    Your quote:
    “Making that seal seen by all as the documents authenticity, however, the Christian who bears the seal or mark of the Holy Spirit you are sharing here, (which I would like to read for myself in the scriptures in you would be so kinds as to direct me to it,”

    I believe you were asking for the verse or scripture in the Bible that talks of the seal of the Holy Spirit so that you can read for yourself where He has guaranteed our salvation?? I referenced it at the start of what I wrote to you but I will post it in ESV version as well as two different translations of it and another verse to support it.

    Ephesians 1:13-14 ESV
    In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

    NLT version – And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own* by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago. 14 The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him. (May I direct your attention to the word *purchased* so that you may ponder on what that means)

    NIV version – And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory. (May I direct your attention to the words *seal* and *deposit guaranteeing our inheritance* so that you may ponder on what they mean)

    And to support

    Ephesians 4:30 ESV
    30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

    NLT version – 30 And do not bring sorrow to God’s Holy Spirit by the way you live. Remember, he has identified you as his own,* guaranteeing that you will be saved on the day of redemption.

    NIV version – 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

    Note the NLT version of that – Do not bring sorrow to God’s Holy Spirit by the way you live…….Gary, I can only speak for myself, but I think I can honestly say on behalf of every one who comments in BTA….none of us, not any single one of us – your brothers and sisters in the faith – tries to bring sorrow or tries to grieve the Holy Spirit by living our lives as you so hurtfully insinuate that we do. We get up each day and look for His help in keeping us on the straight and narrow by living and learning to become more like Christ. We don’t look to murder or lie or become drunkards or thieves. We don’t look forward to partying and whooping it up everyday with intention of satisfying our fleshly desires. No Gary, every single one of us Loves the Lord as much as you do. We have faith enough to know that the Holy Spirit within us WILL do His work inside us and that with His help and guidance will keep us pressing toward the goal that Paul speaks of. We have faith Gary, in God’s Holy Spirit, that He will protect us because He promised He would. He will encourage us, He will guide us and He will provide a way to escape any temptation the comes our way…because He promised He would. And as long as we are walking with Him, are talking with Him and are seeking His will and desire for our lives, we will see that way of escape to run from any worldly temptation that satan drops in our path. We believe that Gary. And we believe that as strongly as you believe what you do. So where does that leave us…always defending ourselves with you? Or can we just come to an understanding that God knows each and every one of us and to let His Holy Spirit do His work in each of our lives, according to what He wants and the way He wants to do it.

    Love Pat

    Happy New Year Everyone!

  65. bubbles says:
    December 31, 2014 at 10:15 pm

    I will no longer post here. There is no sense in the unkindness and attacks that continually occur.

  66. oneg2dblu says:
    January 1, 2015 at 2:09 pm

    Pat… thank you, that was wonderful.

    A great teaching and use of the word and principles we all strive to live by, but occasionally stumble, and with the Holy Spirit as our God-given Helper, which allows us to change our desires, to align with His, how could we ever fail?

    I wish I could speak for every other soul posting here like you do, but I am not quite that well informed, or blessed as you, or led by the Spirit to assume any of us here gets it all right, or could not ever be misled and believe a false teaching, or attend any church that is filled with anything other than imperfect people, while we live in this world and in these tents or bodies.

    I know that I know, which I call blessed to know, there is still a place in this world for some of us to warn others who are our brothers and sisters in Christ, because the word directs us to.

    That position does not disqualify the Holy Spirit, but it enlarges it one obedient soul at a time.

    It may well not be the calling of any other soul here, but it is the calling of many other believers that came before us, and will come after us, Pun Intended, until the Lord returns for His Church.

    Aren’t we are all part of one body each doing what we are given to do?

    That is why I can not speak for others here who may not be called to make a stand where they feel led to, just like you have done.

    Please know this, I use the very same word of God you do to support what is worthy of standing for or against in this ever darkening world which has infiltrated the church as well.

    His Peace and His Love to you, my Sister in Christ.
    Gary

  67. oneg2dblu says:
    January 1, 2015 at 2:28 pm

    I see your heart in your post which certainly reflects the Holy Spirit in you, or the invisible seal.
    But, my point was that the seal is invisible now, for a mark will be placed on our foreheads when we get to heaven.
    However, there is a mark which many will take upon their bodies while here on earth though, the mark of the beast, according to the word all who are to purchase anything in the future must have this visible mark on their head or their hands.
    Sorry I do not have the verse, but will share it later.

  68. poohpity says:
    January 1, 2015 at 2:57 pm

    Gary, could it be possible that that warning of false teaching is God trying to let you know that what you are teaching is false? Romans 2:1 Maybe it is you that has no ears to hear or eyes to see. Apply the warning to your own life before insisting that others listen to “your” cry rather than to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is completely capable and can lead people to the truth for those who are truly seeking it.

  69. joycemb says:
    January 1, 2015 at 3:29 pm

    There are a couple different trains of thought here, both have been debated a long time by very learned theologians; once saved always saved and those who sin after becoming saved we’re never really saved in the first place. Both views can be substantiated by scripture. And both refuted by scripture.
    I personally don’t think anyone’s mind is going to be changed among those debating.
    Sigh….

  70. poohpity says:
    January 1, 2015 at 6:15 pm

    Joyce, can you name one person who has never sinned again after being saved? Can you show me one place in scripture that says we will never sin again after being saved? After being saved I can show you where our sin will not be counted against us. (Romans 4:18 NIV; 2 Cor 5:19 NLT) That gives us opportunity to do good, to serve and to grow in our relationship with the Lord focusing on Him not us.

  71. poohpity says:
    January 1, 2015 at 6:17 pm

    Romans 4:8 NIV not 4:18 ooops.

  72. joycemb says:
    January 1, 2015 at 6:25 pm

    Nope not getting involved, thank you.

  73. oneg2dblu says:
    January 1, 2015 at 7:55 pm

    joyce…. you are so right, that debate will go on until we are perfected.

    Both of the statements you’ve just made however, support the beliefs of the OSAS, so that is not where the debate is.

    The debate in my thinking is, “Any branch that does not produce fruit, will be cut off and thrown in the fire.”

    There really should be no debate about whether that branch was connected to the vine or not, the debate should be, why was it cut off, and once it is cut off and put in the fire, can it then return to life?

    It is like saying that the Disciples who were Followers of Christ, when in times of testing walked away to never return, that they also never were followers Christ, because, we believe, Once a follower, always a follower.

    Or the seed that was sown into shallow soil and sprang to life but later dyed up and died, and because it died it was never really alive to begin with, because if it lived once, it is always alive.

    To me, false teaching is ninety-nine percent true, so it can be thoroughly believed, but it also has something wrong with it, barely detectable, but ever present and causes division and ultimately destruction as it allows for sin to become an adversary, a friend, a tasty treat, and a poison which can go undetected until it is to late.

    Satan in the Garden sowed his poison with telling mostly the truth, because they did not die, and they gained the knowledge of good and evil, just like all false teachers who deceptively teach much truth as they tweak a little something extra into the message just for their own good measure.

    The recipe for disaster is sifted with many truths and a little sweetener added for those who don’t like the taste of the other ingredients.

    Gary

    pooh… could it be? It could be, “All things are possible with Christ.”

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