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High Ground

Mart De Haan Posted by Mart DeHaan
February 17th, 2015
151 Comments » 

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Flickr Photo by: Anders Young

It’s hard to leave the high ground of 1Corinthians 13. Maybe we are not supposed to… except to linger… and then walk… for the rest of our lives in the thought of Who such love comes from… and where He is leading us.

Most of us know the story of this song’s author. He had been an expert in legal affairs, worshiping a God of law, and hating to the death those who were following One who sacrificed his life to stake out a better way.

If there is a problem with the One who killed Paul’s blind passion for the law … with a love song…it’s that, while speaking like a gentle friend to those regarded by religious leaders as cursed by God, the Son of God spoke like a consuming fire to those who defended the law at the expense of—Samaritans, Gentiles, sinners, the blind, lame, lepers, women…

Is it possible that 1Corinthians 13 describes the perfect nature of the One who spoke to Paul out of the “consuming fire” that knocked him to the ground— and temporarily blinded him… to lead him out of a blindness he didn’t know he had?

I’m thinking that, in one way or another, Paul’s love song may help us understand the spirit and intent of everything that Jesus ever said to anyone?


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Filed in anger, God, Grace, His Love, Jesus Christ, Judgment, Life Example, Paul, repentance, Savior, wisdom

151 Responses to “High Ground”

  1. SFDBWV says:
    February 17, 2015 at 7:41 am

    I am taken by the title, “High Ground” as well as the picture of the river.

    Rivers start as a spring high in the elevations of mountains or “higher ground” and as they flow downward they are met with other streams that feed into it causing it to grow into major rivers that eventually empty into a sea and so an ocean.

    If you think of the simplicity of our “love letter” as being a summation of what Jesus’ message is, then see it as a well spring that begins from higher ground and as it courses its way to the ocean gathers strength size and volume as it is fed and filled with many other tributaries; we can see the simple concept of how love generates love.

    It has warmed to 10 degrees with snow this morning. I am finished with plowing for a while and on to the duties of the routine needs of Matthew for the time being.

    I heard from our friend Bob in Cornwall this morning, he had read of a train wreck in West Virginia and the cold weather and was concerned for our safety. Though an ocean away, love is able to reach across the waves and touch us.

    Steve

  2. poohpity says:
    February 17, 2015 at 7:44 am

    I can read 1 Cor 13 and look at how much I have failed in loving others or I can look at it as that is how the Lord acts towards me. Paul knew and acknowledged what he was like but stood in awe of how God treated him even after he had done all that he had done. Jesus the friend of sinners, slow to anger and quick in mercy. Spiritual blindness is all about me and being alive in the Spirit is all about God.

  3. tracey5tgbtg says:
    February 17, 2015 at 8:03 am

    Mart – you wrote: “If there is a problem with the One who killed Paul’s blind passion for the law … with a love song…it’s that, while speaking like a gentle friend to those regarded by religious leaders as cursed by God, the Son of God spoke like a consuming fire to those who defended the law at the expense of—Samaritans, Gentiles, sinners, the blind, lame, lepers, women…”

    Does that mean that it could be a “problem” that Jesus was a gentle fried to those whom the religious right considered cursed and that He was an angry judge to those who held up the law in the face of sinners?

    I wish that you would expand a little more on what you are thinking.

    I agree that the importance of love that Paul tries to convey in 1 Cor 13 helps us see the intent behind Jesus’ words to all. Whether gentle or angry, He loved all; the sinner and the righteous.

  4. jeff1 says:
    February 17, 2015 at 8:53 am

    It is not God changes but beliefs change our perspective of God to what we want him to be. Everyone has a different view of God but God does not have a different view of us. The righteous see sinners as a problem but they are a problem for man not for God. The sinners see the righteous as who do they think they are they are no better than us. One tries to keep the law the other does not.

    It is why God points us to Christ for without him we are equally at a loss. If we look to God we look past our rights and wrongs and help each other instead of judging each other.
    For who can throw the first stone for if I am righteous now does that mean I never was a sinner or if I am a sinner does that mean I never was righteous. For we have all done something right and we have all done something wrong so we are both.

  5. remarutho says:
    February 17, 2015 at 9:32 am

    Good Morning All —

    It seems to me the Love Chapter does express the character of Jesus — “gentle Jesus meek and mild” — who is also “a devouring fire, a jealous God.”

    Brings to mind the description of love in Song of Songs — “Set me as a seal upon your heart, as a seal upon your arm; for love is strong as death, passion fierce as the grave. Its flashes of fire, a raging flame.”

    At art camp this past Saturday (Feb 14th) we read 1 Cor 13:1-13 with the children. Then, we made a Valentine Tree with hearts and shapes bearing some of those words. The students chose faith, hope, love kindness and truth to write on the valentines. And they chose “Jesus” to write on almost everything! Pretty much sums it up for 3rd – 5th graders. Perhaps everybody, scribes, Pharisees, priests and so on — all can be transformed from Saul into Paul.

    Blessings,
    Maru

  6. street says:
    February 17, 2015 at 9:33 am

    been thinking that God speaks the same message over and over and most clearly in Jesus. God speaks to the world and, depending on the hearer, it’s a love song or a consuming fire. praying our lives are in harmony with the Song of God’s Heart.

    dear mart, always thought Romans 8 was the high ground, but after thinking about it. It’s All Good! 2 Timothy 3:16

  7. joycemb says:
    February 17, 2015 at 11:20 am

    I smiled when I first read the title of today’s post, yes, love IS the high ground.

  8. poohpity says:
    February 17, 2015 at 12:11 pm

    It took the Lord to open Paul’s eyes and heart for him to be aware that in persecuting followers of Jesus they were actually going against God. God’s will for his children was to act justly, live out faith(humbly trusting and depending on God to work in peoples lives) and to love mercy(Micah 6:8 NLT). Paul was not doing any of those things but did not see that nor did he understand. It takes Jesus to devour our old ways and teach different ways. Getting rid of the old and replacing(transforming) it with new thoughts, feelings and actions(Romans 12:2 NIV).

    Jesus confronted the religious leaders which Paul was a Pharisee of the strictest sect, from what the scriptures teach, who really thought they were doing God’s work but their hearts were really far away from the Lord.(Matthew 23) Jesus must have seen inside Paul’s heart to know that the passion shown in persecution could be turned around to passion for the truth and directing people to the Lord.

  9. foreverblessed says:
    February 17, 2015 at 12:17 pm

    God’s love everlasting love, never ending love, always hoping love.
    But then…God’s consuming fire.
    It has troubled me off and on for a long time. When I hear a good sermon about it, then I am OK, but when people use hell and brimfire, I feel so sad, and tell God: God it must be different, what is it like?
    When reading Mart’s comment that God’s consuming fire touched Paul, I felt so happy, YES, that is it, His consuming fire is good for us.
    This morning I had been thinking over God’s love, that is so intimate,
    Let Him kiss me with the kisses of His mouth, the beloved says, Song of Songs 1:2
    And in Psalm 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry.
    That last line also troubled me, it looks like a husband who wants to be loved, or else his anger comes over you.
    …. and you be consumed in your way.
    This is exactly what happened to Saul, he was consumed in his way, which waqws a destructive way anyway, like a terrorist’s working. And now a new way came out of it, the new Paul, living in the new life of Jesus Christ
    The anger must mean the same as God’s consuming fire, it is for our good, to blaze away the sin that is within us, and make us clean and whole and without guile (Psalm 32 is the Psalm of the week in the protestant church year over here in my country, I was greatly blessed by the following, and maybe some of you will be too):

    Treasury of David, Psalm 32:2

    Verse 2. In whose spirit there is no guile. When once pardon is realized, the believer has courage to be truthful before God: he can afford to have done with guile in the spirit. Who would not declare all his debts when they are certain to be discharged by another? Who would not declare his malady when he was sure of a cure? True faith knows not only that guile before God is impossible, but also that it is no longer necessary. The believer has nothing to conceal: he sees himself as before God, stripped, and laid open, and bare; and if he has learned to see himself as he is, so also has he learned to see God as he reveals himself. There is no guile in the spirit of one who is justified by faith; because in the act of justification truth has been established in his inward parts. There is no guile in the spirit of him who sees the truth of himself in the light of the truth of God. For the truth of God shows him at once that in Christ he is perfectly righteous before God, and in himself he is the chief of sinners. Such a one knows he is not his own, for he is bought with a price, and therefore he is to glorify God. There is no guile in the spirit of him whose real object is to glorify Christ and not himself. But when a man is not quite true to Christ, and has not quite ceased to magnify self, there may be guile, for he will be more occupied with thoughts about himself than with the honour of Christ. But if the truth, and honour, and glory of Christ be his supreme care, he may leave himself out of the question, and, like Christ, “O commit himself to him that judgeth righteously.” J. W. Reeve, M.A., in “Lectures on the Thirty-second Psalm,” 1860.

  10. street says:
    February 17, 2015 at 12:27 pm

    been thinking about the high ground just now and the valley we will eventually walk through. no the flood can not overwhelm us in the valley. His love holds us secure. His love and sacrifice is stronger than death.

  11. street says:
    February 17, 2015 at 12:40 pm

    poo said,”Jesus confronted the religious leaders which Paul was a Pharisee of the strictest sect, from what the scriptures teach, who really thought they were doing God’s work but their hearts were really far away from the Lord.(Matthew 23) Jesus must have seen inside Paul’s heart to know that the passion shown in persecution could be turned around to passion for the truth and directing people to the Lord.”

    God did not see anything different in the heart of paul that He doesn’t see in every heart born after adam. there is nothing in man that God can use or needs to do His will, but chooses mankind as the instrument to bring about His will. He does this by the Holy Spirit not the flesh. if not, for His grace and mercy in Christ Jesus, we would become like sodom and gomorrah.

  12. poohpity says:
    February 17, 2015 at 12:51 pm

    street, do you think God can see those who really want and desire Him in their lives from those who do not? That was what I was saying not anything about the condition of man’s heart.

  13. street says:
    February 17, 2015 at 12:58 pm

    “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”
    — Revelation 12:11

  14. street says:
    February 17, 2015 at 1:01 pm

    poo all mankind is in armed rebellion against God and His Anointed one. the thing that trips them up is the grievousness of the sin. some think they have been forgiven little which is not the case.

  15. street says:
    February 17, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    if a person is sinning they know something is wrong but do not know what is wrong or how to correct it. even if they do correct the behavior the injustice still remains and the heart condition remains resulting in further sin and rebellion. sin can lead to repentance and it can lead to death. it depends on who you listen too. Listen for God to Speak. He has finally spoken through His Son.

  16. poohpity says:
    February 17, 2015 at 1:13 pm

    street, the religious leaders in Matt 23 were concerned about their outward appearance and being looked up to as if they were god. They did not even recognize God as He stood in their midst. I understand what you are saying about the heart of man being deceitful but man can only deceive man not God. So I think we are talking about 2 different things altogether.

  17. joycemb says:
    February 17, 2015 at 1:33 pm

    There is nothing in us that God needs from us. He uses who he will as he will. Brother Lawrence spoke of this in The Practice of the Presence of God. To be a humble servant of man is as lofty a goal as being a learned professor. It’s being in the Presence that matters to Him, not what we know or do as a profession. Even Paul knew this.

  18. remarutho says:
    February 17, 2015 at 1:41 pm

    Dear All —

    Looking at the illustration for this “High Ground” topic, I am reminded of the first couple verses of the famous psalm:

    “I lift up my eyes to the hills—
    from where will my help come?

    My help comes from the Lord,
    who made heaven and earth.”

    It is paradoxical that we are comforted by the great glory of our God. His power overshadows our utter weakness. Also, “He who watches Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps.”

    Maru

  19. joycemb says:
    February 17, 2015 at 2:42 pm

    Forever I am impressed by your statement about the consuming fire. Thank you for sharing this my eyes are also opened to a new truth.

    Maru those verses in the 23rd psalm, I always think of how back in Biblical times the ‘high places’ were used for pagan worship, yet God came down to meet us where we are at-even as a little child in a mortal womb. Surely our help does come from The Lord who made the heavens and the earth.

  20. joycemb says:
    February 17, 2015 at 2:45 pm

    Wrong psalm; psalm 121. The 23rd is my personal favorite:)

  21. street says:
    February 17, 2015 at 10:15 pm

    poo said,”I understand what you are saying about the heart of man being deceitful but man can only deceive man not God.”

    dear poo the heart can an does deceive other men, but it no amateur when it comes to deceiving self. i can not understand the things of my own heart. by the grace of God i have come to know and understand Jesus. i don’t know everything about Him, but i am not thirsty. i still get troubles, trials, testing, disappointment, insensitive, boorish and the thoughts! it good to know the method of operation of the devil. it’s the same schtick and routine over and over. God’s word acts as a guard over our hearts and minds if we give Him a listen. God is in control and is a perfect Dad! remember the prodigal, He does things we would never think of. i am so glad!

  22. jeff1 says:
    February 18, 2015 at 5:24 am

    Am I right Street that God is just as concerned with us deceiving our own heart as he is with us being deceitful to others. I had deceived myself for a long time and if I am deceiving myself then I am automatically deceiving others wouldn’t that be so?

    Until I recognised that, I was serving the devil. The fear and deception came from myself while I was focused on what others were doing wrong and had convinced myself I was not as sinful as someone who had done worse in my eyes.

    It is not until I get to that place that I truly trust God, for I had been trusting on my own understanding. My understanding fitted my standard of justice not God’s standard of justice.

    I was blinded by my own ‘I know better than anyone’ attitude and God in his wisdom had to get me to breaking point to accomplish his truth in me.

    If I despair it is with myself for I can so easily let arrogance raise its ugly head. It may not be the same for everyone but I know that the battle within is difficult.
    Like you Street I have got wiser to the operation of the devil and coming on here gives me strength to continue.
    I still find it funny trying to think of God as Dad but I am so glad too Street.

  23. poohpity says:
    February 18, 2015 at 10:01 am

    street, exactly so why look at the deception of others when our own hearts deceive? I think that is why Jesus said, “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. 2 For you will be treated as you treat others.[a] The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged.[b]

    3 “And why worry about a speck in your friend’s eye[c] when you have a log in your own? 4 How can you think of saying to your friend,[d] ‘Let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,’ when you can’t see past the log in your own eye?”

    Then Paul also went on to say, “You may think you can condemn such people, but you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you who judge others do these very same things.” When we accuse others we are actually seeing in them the same things we are guilty of.

    So I understand that taking the “High Ground” would be rather than concentrating on all the ways we fail concentrate on what Jesus has done for us then that will lead us to help the widows, orphans, hungry, sad, thirsty, homeless, sick and sharing the Gospel message. Getting our eyes off of us, not saying we should not confess when we sin, but putting our eyes on extending the hand of God and acting that out in love towards others.

  24. poohpity says:
    February 18, 2015 at 10:58 am

    Today being the first day of Lent remember Hosea word’s, “Oh, that we might know the Lord!
    Let us press on to know him.
    He will respond to us as surely as the arrival of dawn
    or the coming of rains in early spring.”

    Then God said, “I want you to show love,
    not offer sacrifices.
    I want you to know me
    more than I want burnt offerings.

  25. joycemb says:
    February 18, 2015 at 11:15 am

    Spiritual growth entails seeing what is inside us honestly and taking it to God for cleansing, it’s not saying, well, I am saved so now I am perfect and don’t need to change or look inside. Paul and Peter grew in their relationship with God by being honest about who they were yet giving God the Glory for the changes. Introspection can either be arrogance or humility. Yet we are to ask God to search our hearts to be freed from the things that hinder our walk/growth in Christ.

  26. poohpity says:
    February 18, 2015 at 11:20 am

    I wonder how wonderful this Lent would be if rather than self deprivation for 40 days we did random acts of kindness? Giving up judging, criticizing and finger pointing of ourselves and others replacing it with prayer and words that are kind and encouraging.

  27. poohpity says:
    February 18, 2015 at 11:42 am

    I thought spiritual growth was becoming more and more submissive to the leading of God’s Holy Spirit and listening/following less and less of self?

  28. joycemb says:
    February 18, 2015 at 11:46 am

    We need to understand self before we can give it over to God to change. We will only finally be changed in that instance when we see Jesus face to face.

  29. joycemb says:
    February 18, 2015 at 11:53 am

    Let the change begin with us Pooh and not telling others what to do, right Pooh?

  30. street says:
    February 18, 2015 at 12:41 pm

    poo said,”So I understand that taking the “High Ground” would be rather than concentrating on all the ways we fail concentrate on what Jesus has done for us then that will lead us to help the widows, orphans, hungry, sad, thirsty, homeless, sick and sharing the Gospel message. Getting our eyes off of us, not saying we should not confess when we sin, but putting our eyes on extending the hand of God and acting that out in love towards others.”

    dear poo taking the high ground is a form of legalism. much like a pharisee. christian are guilty of the same thing. God promised to bring down those who lift them selves up and lift up those who are low. the word humility comes to mind. i looked at your post and notice that repentance was an after thought. john came with a baptism of repentance of washing of water. Jesus comes with a Baptism of fire and power. you can not reverse the two. repentance to me is understanding i am a scoundrel like jacob, whom i identify with. in this state i understood i needed a Savior really bad. the Good News did come and i was saved. i still lived like a sinner, but saved by grace. it was much later i began to identify myself with God as a Father in what His Son had accomplished. this all happen through and by the Holy Spirit He gave me so long ago. i understand i lived and died under a dualistic operating system so to speak. the sin that so easily entangles. it is not until we come to the end of ourselves and face the truth of God’s word do we start dismantling the dualistic sinful operating system of our hears and minds. this can only come from conviction from the Holy Spirit not from my own heart. His mercy, patients love, faithfulness, and grace towards me leaves me at at lose for words. Thank You Dad!

  31. jeff1 says:
    February 18, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    Yes Street I agree with what you have said I felt the pain of conviction then I realised I am God’s enemy as much as the next man. We convince ourselves that we are whiter than white and justify ourselves until that conviction happens in us and then I understood it is God who loves me and I do not deserve it. Then knowing how sin lurks in my own being I can look at others differently and as an equal for it is God who will judge all justly, Ours not to reason why, ours but to do and die a quote from Alfred Lord Tennyson.

  32. poohpity says:
    February 18, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    Joyce you said, “Let the change begin with us Pooh and not telling others what to do, right Pooh? and right before was said, “We “need” to understand self before we can give it over to God to change.” Is that not telling people what they need to do? I guess I am a little confused. Who else was telling anyone what to do? Can you give me an example so I understand? Are we not to encourage each other to do good works(Hebrews 10:24 NLT; Titus 3:8 NIV)?

  33. poohpity says:
    February 18, 2015 at 1:48 pm

    street, I have never understood serving others as legalistic high ground or looking to Jesus rather than looking at ourselves. Could it be possible there is a misunderstanding of what was said?

  34. joycemb says:
    February 18, 2015 at 2:19 pm

    Pooh I should have said ‘I’ need to instead of ‘we’ as yes it does sound like judging and fingerpointing. I believe I am responsible for my thoughts words and actions before God and as the scriptures say to “do good” because I have been saved from sin to do good works. I can “work” better the more I understand the limitations within that may or may not be keeping me from loving in thought, word, and deed. This is my spiritual responsibility before God and all of mankind. Failure to acknowledge the evil that still lies in my heart leads to arrogance and deception of my own soul and corrupts those around me. But God cannot be deceived.

  35. street says:
    February 18, 2015 at 3:11 pm

    Psalm 40:5

    Isaiah 55:8

    John 15

    Matthew 13:44-46

    Luke 9:23

  36. joycemb says:
    February 18, 2015 at 3:13 pm

    Pooh you said how about doing “random acts of kindness”. Great idea, but nothing at all random about kindness as far as being the second thought in Paul’s description of love; it’s a lifestyle ;-)

  37. street says:
    February 18, 2015 at 3:27 pm

    a side note, if you are following Jesus you will keep His commands. if you get off the coarse marked out before you and you admit it He will cleanse you from your disobedience and get you back on course. keep following we have much ground to cover.

    Romans 10:9

  38. street says:
    February 18, 2015 at 3:42 pm

    poo said,”street, do you think God can see those who really want and desire Him in their lives from those who do not? That was what I was saying not anything about the condition of man’s heart.”

    God does see our hearts and our futile efforts. it is the sinful heart and sin that separate us from God. Jesus is God’s answer to sin not our efforts. we start with nothing but His Word. we come to our end at the cross. we still have to take up our cross and His word daily. Power to really live comes from the Holy Spirit not out flesh. flesh means “our” desires, thoughts, hopes, and all the other stuff that doesn’t originate from God. be a bereans Acts 17:11 depend on God’s word it will strengthen you, sustain you, give you life and save you!

  39. cbrown says:
    February 18, 2015 at 4:04 pm

    A verse often quoted on this board: Galatians 2:20English Standard Version (ESV)

    20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

  40. poohpity says:
    February 18, 2015 at 4:08 pm

    Random acts of kindness are found when one looks around and sees someone in need then does something to help(that is the randomness). Of course that can not happen if we are continually looking at our self we are blinded to the needs of others. Joyce I wonder if you have noticed that no matter what I say you find fault with it?

  41. narrowpathseeker says:
    February 18, 2015 at 4:13 pm

    Pooh, I do not believe you are confused one bit. You like to bait people into an argument and then you pick and poke until people explode and then you go into that perpetual victim role. Looks like Joyce didn’t bite. But, you won’t give it up…you’ll be back with more bait..I see you copy and paste a lot of scripture and Christian thoughts, but your own thoughts that you post with them are so antagonizing they just don’t coincide with what you copy and paste.

  42. narrowpathseeker says:
    February 18, 2015 at 4:17 pm

    POOH … Are you serious?!!! YOU are the one that finds fault with everything anyone says. AND that is exactly what you do…attack and then blame the one you attack and play the victim. I think allowing you to do that is very wrong.

  43. narrowpathseeker says:
    February 18, 2015 at 4:39 pm

    Pooh it is also not that you don’t realize that you are offensive because you are very careful not to say anything offensive to Mart..in fact, as soon as too many people stand up to you, you start with compliments to Mart. There is certainly nothing wrong with that as he is deserving of praise, but the point is you KNOW he has the upper hand…and he is probably the ONLY person you make very sure you don’t offend.

  44. joycemb says:
    February 18, 2015 at 4:55 pm

    Pooh you and I have very different theological views. I do disagree with much you say and being a public blog thinking about faith I am sharing my viewpoint which I believe is the whole purpose; to grow in our faith as we think about how we understand our faith.

    I may also have some personal issues with you that I will not discuss publicly or privately with you any longer that also spark in me a sense of feeling like I need to defend myself. But I do try to keep my remarks on the subject and think I do pretty well – though I could be wrong. I dont hate you or like you but as my sister in The Lord I love and respect you but not in a way of the flesh but as an equal sister in The Lord I love you.

    As I have been trying to say I know full well that I can easily deceive myself, as others have also stated, and so knowing that I have to trust that God has brought me and everyone together here for a reason; the reason being to learn to love one another better despite our theological or personality differences. I believe that is the goal of spiritual formation, for me anyway.

  45. street says:
    February 18, 2015 at 5:40 pm

    cbrown says: 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

    and the finished product is, Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren

    the pharisee did not recognize God because they did not know Him. they served another and jerusalem was destroyed according to the covenant.

    i need to give up my final concern of where i can run too because of evil in the world and accept His providential care and eternal love in Christ Jesus.

  46. narrowpathseeker says:
    February 18, 2015 at 5:45 pm

    Joyce thank you for your last post and reminding me of the love that I should be striving towards. I go through periods of time where I spend time praying for people that have hurt me or hurt others. I really need to get back to that and stick to it. If LOVE covers a multitude of sins, it a very important fruit that we all need, but especially me, because I am so lacking sometimes. Being a gardener, I am very aware of the importance of dung as a fertilizer. If I am to have a harvest of Love, I guess I will have to try harder to take in the more unpleasant aspects of spiritual gardening.

  47. bubbles says:
    February 18, 2015 at 5:48 pm

    What does it mean that love covers a multitude of sins? Is this only talking about God’s love towards us?
    What about each other? Does that mean things between people should be ignored?

  48. joycemb says:
    February 18, 2015 at 6:10 pm

    Bubbles I think that reconciliation between God and man is almost as difficult as reconciliation between people. Love wins but it’s a hard fought battle sometimes, and sometimes it’s just best for all to just move on. Sometimes reconciliation/ love will not happen this side of eternity. We humans do the best we can with what we have but the love of God never fails.

  49. joycemb says:
    February 18, 2015 at 6:17 pm

    Street said: i need to give up my final concern of where i can run too because of evil in the world and accept His providential care and eternal love in Christ Jesus.

    A martyr in the making. Pick up that cross and march on, soldier.

  50. street says:
    February 18, 2015 at 7:00 pm

    ran across a blog by been thinking march 22 2011 Love wins or not… it’s so appropriate to the discussions on this blog. the thought comes to mind Matthew 11:29 Jesus said His not yours or some one else. don’t try and make some one wear your shoes they will not fit and the will injure their feet. same with their yoke. besides let them wear it. if it’s the wrong one, time will bear that out. He is and always will be the Great Shepard of my soul. my heart still trembles and i do know why, fear. love cast out fear. need to love.

    dear joycemb the way the world is going i think you are right.

  51. poohpity says:
    February 18, 2015 at 7:03 pm

    Have you ever noticed how angry and bitter people lump themselves together like a pack of wolves seeking to devour others then “blame” or “accuse” the other person for causing all the anger? I really hope everyone understands that no one can cause anyone else to become angry that comes from within one’s own heart and soul. Is that taking personal responsibility by blaming me? I guess it has worked thus far especially from within the pack.

    If anyone thinks that I bait people to get angry then do not read anything I write that will end that in a flat minute.

  52. Ted M. Gossard says:
    February 18, 2015 at 8:36 pm

    Deep thoughts. I take it that we see the God who is love in JesuS for sure. Yes, the love described in 1 Corinthians 13 which in its context is to characterize the body of Christ surely indeed must be true of its head, Christ himself.

    Good way of expressing the consuming fire, Mart.

  53. street says:
    February 18, 2015 at 9:08 pm

    after reading mart’s post over and over and over again. some words stick out like problem, high ground, consuming fire, and few adjectives. it like a puzzle wrapped in a riddle surrounded in an enigma all to take your eyes of the most obvious. that God loves you! it’s a very good idea to obey, or stay away from sin. i think that is the way we love Him back, and He notices.

  54. jeff1 says:
    February 19, 2015 at 5:49 am

    I am speaking of what is my yoke and that is feeling loved by God when I fail. Having believed that I had to earn God’s love by being good my vision of God is that he gets angry when I do not obey. Instead of wanting to run to Him I run away and hide. This means I fear God out of terror and do not feel his love even though he loves me. This also creates difficulty with loving others who may be hard to love, for if I do not feel loved myself then I cannot divulge love for others.

    I have not yet gotten to the place where I can believe God truly loves me, as soon as I backslide then those thoughts of despair come back to haunt me.

    As Street as said our yokes are different and God uses it as he sees fit, it is my weakness but since God has strength in my weakness I must continue knowing that God will use this thorn in my side for good purpose.

    I must remember that while it troubles me it does not trouble God. God may have his reasons for not removing it from me for Paul had a thorn in his side and believed it was there for God’s purpose.

    If we stop looking at each other’s weakness as failure but try to help each other in their weakness it would benefit the body of Christ. We must stop looking at each others weakness as something to criticize and instead try to help each other overcome that weakness. In order to do that the person must recognise their own yoke and share it so that others will be able to exercise patience with us.

  55. SFDBWV says:
    February 19, 2015 at 7:45 am

    What a brutal morning, it is -3 and they are not calling for much more than that for a high today, with a minus in the teens tonight. No sky observable only that blue haze of snow and frozen atmosphere.

    I plowed last evening before closing things up and again this morning after getting Matt settled in.

    I haven’t had much time for the blog except to set and read the thoughts and comments of others.

    In alignment with Mart’s comments I too see that Jesus, like God the Father, does speak with soft love and with hard love to each of us depending on what it is we need to hear.

    I have to believe the “consuming fire” Mart spoke of from Jesus was given not as much as an accusation as an acknowledgement of their broken nature meant to open their eyes not to scorn them.

    From one who has heard the voice of our Lord, I have heard both encouragements as well as a soft and gentle scolding in question form.

    For the reader who wonders what. I will say that in asking for something personal, long ago, He said to me “Am I not enough?”

    Yes He is enough, but He knew exactly what I truly needed and did in time provide it. In His way and in His time.

    It is vital to listen to criticism whether deserved or not, because in it we hear things that we may be blind to or are too comfortable with to believe to be needing of attention. There is a difference though between being criticized and being castigated. We have to be big enough to know the difference and how to react to both.

    I hope all of you are warm and safe today and can feel the depth of God’s love.

    Steve

  56. street says:
    February 19, 2015 at 9:16 am

    Romans 12: 3 Because of the privilege and authority God has given me, I give each of you this warning: Don’t think you are better than you really are. Be honest in your evaluation of yourselves, measuring yourselves by the faith God has given us. 4 Just as our bodies have many parts and each part has a special function, 5 so it is with Christ’s body. We are many parts of one body, and we all belong to each other.

  57. jeff1 says:
    February 19, 2015 at 9:22 am

    Pooh your post 18/2 7.03pm

    You said no one can cause anyone else to become angry.
    If only that were true what a perfect world this would be.
    People make other people angry all the time. We would not need God at work in us if we did not fall short of God’s glory. Our frailty means just that getting angry, lack of patience, lack of empathy the list goes on. Our frailties are different as we are different people but we still have them whether we like to admit it or not.

    I think Pooh you are treating people like they should be all perfect and while we might like to think we are that just is not the case. Paul was always thankful for the thorn in his side because it kept him humble before God and others otherwise we would become so unbearable people would run a mile from us.

  58. street says:
    February 19, 2015 at 9:30 am

    dear jeff in Jeremiah 17:1 “Judah’s sin is engraved with an iron tool, inscribed with a flint point, on the tablets of their hearts and on the horns of their altars.”

    this is part of the dual operating system every Christian gets to deal with. Some sins and habits are removed entirely and immediately while others God’s removes more slowly, and painfully. in the process we begin to grow! growing the fruit of trust and love for God that is missing in dead people. this love breaks out of the ground and grows. eventually the fruit is matures and provided for other and the body is done away with and the process repeats. take a closer look at joseph’s life and the life of Jesus. there is going to be a happy ending!

  59. street says:
    February 19, 2015 at 9:44 am

    3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4 who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God. 5 For just as we share abundantly in the sufferings of Christ,so also our comfort abounds through Christ. 6 If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation;if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer. 7 And our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort. 2 Corinthians 1:3-7

  60. poohpity says:
    February 19, 2015 at 10:11 am

    jeff1, I do not understand where the thoughts of me wanting anyone to be perfect came from. That I understand is an impossibility and futile to say the least. What I want is for people to trust and believe in God. Looking at each others faults or our own and criticizing only breaks a person’s spirit and does nothing to help in anyway except cause guilt, anger, hatred and shame. ALL humanity is broken so why look at the pieces when the One who created them wants to heal, restore and give them life. Not only life but an abundant life.

  61. joycemb says:
    February 19, 2015 at 10:11 am

    Good morning all!

    New day, new mercies, thanks be to God! Street those scriptures have been a part of the road signs I have used for many years, since I the first time I said to God, Why me? God can use anything, any troubles we go through. Most of the time I honestly don’t know the reason for my troubles, but that’s when my trust and faith in God get me through those hard times.

    Steve you are getting the type of winter we usually get here, this winter has been unusually mild with little precip. still. But the sun in shining here so my cat is happy for it and I for the extra vit. D when I venture out.

    We all have our special sufferings to endure, whether its the weather, our health, or our relationship struggles it’s really all good and I know from experience God wins out with love that covers a multitude of sins and troubles.

    Looking forward to my 2 hours of volunteering today and also thankful for my closest friend who came to visit and stayed the night. We had some good deep ‘God’ talks and a few good meals together. Today back to same old, same old. Thankful for good memories of fellowship this week and last also with a nephew’s surprise visit. One visit a week and I will surely get through another long winter.

    Blessings to Street, Vivien, Pooh, Forever, Maru, Mart, Narrow and all the rest,
    Joyce

  62. poohpity says:
    February 19, 2015 at 10:17 am

    Next time anger happens take a step back and see that it comes from within. We can blame it on others but they are not in our head and they are not in control of our emotions we are.

  63. poohpity says:
    February 19, 2015 at 10:27 am

    It is our perceptions real or imagined that fuels anger and most often it is self based. Someone did something or said something that we do not like so we make a choice to act out in a negative way by throwing a tantrum. Usually it is a secondary emotion that means we may feel hurt or rejected and rather than act on that a person shows anger.

  64. joycemb says:
    February 19, 2015 at 10:49 am

    Pooh do you get angry? If so is it always your fault and has nothing to do with the other? Seems like Jesus got angry and so did Peter and Paul, yet they never said, oh sorry I’m just reacting out of my own weakness. The way I understand scripture they were reacting out of grief, injustice, and fear. Anger is a healthy emotion just should not be used for sinful purposes.

  65. poohpity says:
    February 19, 2015 at 11:51 am

    I think Paul’s description in 1 Cor 13 is boasting about God’s love towards us, the “High Ground” while realizing that our love for God and others is very limited and unfaithful. Our loves fails but God’s love never fails.

  66. poohpity says:
    February 19, 2015 at 12:04 pm

    Gosh, today “Our Daily Journey”, “Our Daily Bread” and “Discover The Word” were very good.

  67. jeff1 says:
    February 19, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    I know when someone has upset me I have taken out my anger on my nearest and dearest instead of having it out with the person I was upset with. I have apologised when I have come to my senses. There is anger though that comes from circumstances that I have no control over because of vandalism, elderly people being conned by cowboy builders, abuse of children etc.

    Surely this anger is normal and I would think there was something wrong if I did not get angry about this. I am not to turn a blind eye to the wrongs of this world in order to stop me getting angry. I still get angry that the laws in my Country do not deter the perpetrators and those committing the crimes are making a mockery of the system. As you say Joyce anger for the right reason and not to harm others.

  68. oneg2dblu says:
    February 19, 2015 at 1:48 pm

    Good day all… happy to be back. Had a great journey these last forty days of fasting from any commenting, but have read every word and comment posted. I wanted to express my thoughts just as much as the rest of us here when others words pricked to the core, but Praise God for the Fruit found in Fasting, which ultimately has fed me well.
    All the recurring theatrics displayed by the elements of accusing others of pointing fingers, not looking in the mirror, not seeing the log in the eye, or being accused of judging others while not really knowing their heart, is played over and over. Then, comes the pouring on of niceties and praising, like a well fashioned fig leaf. hoping to quickly cover up the past offensive trespass.
    Obviously seen and expressed by some witnesses here, but not received.
    This ever recurring defense… the woe is me defense mechanism which has so far had no remedial consequence, other than making others feel they need to walk on egg shells, or silence themselves, just for the mental health and wellness of all others here, who are not caught up in the emotion of the battle which perpetually lingers, and soon rises again and again.
    It source is always going to be found in one’s rebellious fallen humanity, the wayward tongue, and never in the ever patient,loving, Spirit-controlled thoughts of an ever growing, ever learning, ever relinquishing repentant believer.
    The battle is always in the mind, and the cure is the same for all of us, who can recognize our need to change.
    How does one break a bad habit? “Just drop it!”
    If you continue to cling to it, it never leaves you, and it never breaks.
    Here’s an Old Indian proverb I once heard, “You have two wolves inside you that are always fighting, a good Wolfe and a evil Wolfe. The one you feed the most, wins the fight.”
    Be Blessed, Gary

  69. poohpity says:
    February 19, 2015 at 1:53 pm

    All our emotions are a normal part of our being human. It is what we to do with them that really seems to make the difference. There is where we have choices they do not have to control us, we can be in control of them with help from God.

  70. poohpity says:
    February 19, 2015 at 1:54 pm

    Understanding that we will never do anything– not anything perfectly. That is why God’s grace is so amazing.

  71. oneg2dblu says:
    February 19, 2015 at 1:56 pm

    The other recurring theme here is, In Christ, we can do all things, even forgive our enemies, love beyond our ability, and with God’s help, change even our selves.

  72. joycemb says:
    February 19, 2015 at 2:34 pm

    Well put Gary your fast has given you wisdom. Sometimes stepping back is a good way for me to check my thought patterns and ask God to search my heart; often a daily occurrence and needed. I’ve learned never to trust what I know and have been taught because even some things I learned in Bible College were taken from humanistic psychologies and can be a perversion of Gods truth. Integrating psychology and theology can take many forms as noted here on this blog. Sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing when it becomes the end-all. I am still learning that and recognize it is a process that hopefully those of us from the counseling field are still moving through and toward the ultimate Knower of Truth.

  73. narrowpathseeker says:
    February 19, 2015 at 5:05 pm

    Gary, I am very glad to see you back. I have been gone for quite awhile but I did check in now and then but never saw any sign of you here. Welcome back.

    Steve, I am so sorry for your cold weather. Frank has told me that it hasn’t been this cold until I moved here!! I was so enjoying not living in New England and dealing with the massive snowfall and the subzero temps until it dropped to almost zero this morning!!lol

    Jeff 1 and Joyce… I also was thinking about Jesus’ anger last night and this morning. There was also a time when some woman was following Paul around and he got really angry…do either of you recall that? I believe she was praising or flattering him, but he discerned that she was demon possessed or something and had alternative motives. Am I way out of the field or what? It keeps coming to mind but I can’t remember any exact words to look it up. Anyway, I think you are both right…some anger is justified. However I need to learn how to channel that justifiable anger into something positive and not the other kind have a foothold.

    Pooh you talked about doing random kind deeds for people…. that is a very nice thought. I have to wonder why a person is so willing to go out to show strangers love and kindness and yet comes here to your brothers and sisters in Christ and seemingly want to keep us in a state of anger. Why aren’t you trying to help us rise above ourselves…isn’t that what we are ALL supposed to do for one another? Wouldn’t that be a kind and loving deed?

  74. street says:
    February 19, 2015 at 7:45 pm

    you know all this talk about human anger misses the point of this blog altogether. we all know what it is. the thing that might be a little more important is to understand God’s anger. this should clear up a few issues.

  75. remarutho says:
    February 19, 2015 at 8:01 pm

    Good Evening All —

    For those who observe the season before Easter, this is day two of the journey toward Jerusalem and the cross. It seems to me the 40 days of walking with Jesus can be a time to break out of stale ways of thinking and acting.

    Mart, you wrote about the high ground celebrated in Paul’s love song — a place where a Jesus-follower will:

    “linger… and then walk… for the rest of our lives in the thought of Who such love comes from… and where He is leading us.”

    It is in Jesus that we live and move and have our being. He intentionally took on the life we live — the life of a mortal human — so that He could make the sacrifice for our ransom. His love is a consuming fire and we are fuel for the flames.

    Blessings,
    Maru

  76. joycemb says:
    February 19, 2015 at 8:13 pm

    Tonight I’m reading The Love of God by Oswald Chambers and came across a passage I’d highlighted a few years ago that I think is so appropriate to what we deal with day to day on this blog, relationship struggles. Oswald says:
    “Do I believe that God engineers my circumstances? That it is He who brings me each day into contact with the people I meet? Am I faithful enough to Him to know that all I meet with every day is absolutely under His dominance and rule? Do I face humiliation with a perfect knowledge that God is working out His own will?
    You are brought face to face with difficult cases, and nothing happens externally; yet you know that emancipation has been given, because you are concentrated on Jesus Christ. Our line of service is to see that there is nothing between Jesus and ourselves. Is there? If there is, you must get through it, not by mounting up, not by ignoring it in irritation, but by facing it and going through it straight into the presence of Jesus. Then that very thing, and all you have been through in connection with it, glorifies Jesus in a way you will never know till you see Him face to face.”

    This is our patient God at work in the background of our lives here on this blog.

  77. poohpity says:
    February 19, 2015 at 8:47 pm

    narrow,
    Why aren’t you trying to help us rise above ourselves…isn’t that what we are ALL supposed to do for one another? Wouldn’t that be a kind and loving deed?

  78. poohpity says:
    February 19, 2015 at 8:57 pm

    “God blesses those who work for peace, for they will be called the children of God.” Matt 5:9 NLT

  79. street says:
    February 19, 2015 at 10:53 pm

    joycemb said,”I am still learning that and recognize it is a process that hopefully those of us from the counseling field are still moving through and toward the ultimate Knower of Truth.”

    God is light and in Him there is no darkness. 1 John 1:5

  80. jeff1 says:
    February 20, 2015 at 7:05 am

    As someone who tried to stay within the law all my life I am shocked at the revelations in the UK which show that those in power were not practising what they preached. If those who are in positions of power are not trustworthy were does that leave the rest of us!

    As far as Governments are concerned they change the rules so that they keep control and nothing ever changes for the working man. Money is power and keeping the working classes so that they never get any richer seems to be the Governments aim as they give it to you in one hand and take it away in another.

    The world is still ill divided despite attempts to bridge the gap, the strongest still survive here while those with addictions, illness, poverty etc. still struggle. We seem to go round in circles with the rich usually getting richer and the poor getting poorer, human nature being what it is those who are rich say God blessed them while he did not bless the poor because they did something to displease Him.

    Who among us can take the high ground, I desire the high ground because I believe its where I would have the power to make a difference. The problem with that is that those who went before me wanted the same and look how they turned out.

    My father was in a Government job and he was given a gift for doing a service for someone. It was all above board what my father done but while he accepted the gift from the man he did not keep it instead handing it in to his superior.

    The gift as the man was a farmer, was a bag of potatoes, and I remember we all laughed at my father for not keeping it.

    My father turned around and said to us today it is a bag of potatoes! what about tomorrow.

    I was too young at the time to understand what my father was getting at but life as taught me that my father was a very intuitive man who understood human nature all too well.

    It is easy for me to criticise those on higher earthly ground but I have no idea what they are up against anymore than they know what I am up against so instead I should do what I can do (in my small corner) knowing that God is in charge of eternity and that is why all will be well. Looking at man can bring me despair while looking to God is a done deal.

  81. poohpity says:
    February 20, 2015 at 9:39 am

    Amen jeff1!

    It seems no matter whether rich or poor(outward things) everyone is still human with battles, struggles, trails and temptations to face daily.

  82. oneg2dblu says:
    February 20, 2015 at 9:40 am

    Good day all… and thanks joycemb, and narrowpathseeker for the welcome back. It is nice to be acknowledged with a personal note instead of being talked around and given verses instead of actual brotherly conversation.
    street… you anger management categorizing to me, could fall into two places, human based anger and godly righteous anger.
    One stands up and protects self pride and the other godly values.
    Christ being both man and God, acted out in anger. He turned over the tables of the money changers in anger,and in protest to making His Fathers house a circus, instead of a House of Prayer.
    Often when we here do the same things in principle, they are seen as only as a human pride-filled response filled with uncalled for emotion.
    Our humanity seems to trump our intention, because we have are received as argumentative and out of control, whether it is the case or not, the accusation surfaces and takes precedent, and we then retreat, or play out innocent victim.
    Even if we back up our position with verses, they have no impact on the accusing party, and no resolve is met.
    But, we all know that the word of God will not return void, and all scripture is from God, given to correct, rebuke, and train up the brethren to do good works, and good works are always within the will of God for us to do.
    Hope we are all staying warm and well fed today.
    Gary

  83. oneg2dblu says:
    February 20, 2015 at 9:57 am

    jeff1… there is another possibility taken by the rich, and that is in seeing only self as the one who gets what he deserves through their own hard work, their own cunning nature, and even their evil practices, and God in never given first place, or any place in their thinking, “it is all about them,’ or living out the world view, if you will..
    Certainly, not a good place for any Christ follower to be, but we all know God waters the wheat and the tares, and both are blessed by that watering, for a time.
    But, a day is coming, when all things will find there prope order and r place, and some will be separated out and thrown into the fire.
    We must allow God’s work, to do its work in us, to be truly blessed beyond our greatest imagination,knowing, He called us, He loved us, and He blesses us, all for His purposes.
    Praise God!

  84. poohpity says:
    February 20, 2015 at 11:30 am

    We had an excellent discussion on anger in the archives from 04/05/2011 titled “Why Are We So Angry?” If anyone is interested go to the little section after Mart’s topic where it says “Filed in” and click on anger then it takes you to several sections find that title and date. I tried to post the link but it did not go through.

  85. street says:
    February 20, 2015 at 11:44 am

    mart said,”“linger… and then walk… for the rest of our lives in the thought of Who such love comes from… and where He is leading us.”

    do we walk in more than just thoughts? linger to me seem to dissipate or eventually leave.

    sound like having breakfast with Jesus would be much more than a thought.

    faith is actually knowing Jesus and the tangible proof are the actions of the individual, repentance, love, joy, peace, patients, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, gentleness, long-suffering.

    thoughts are hard to hold on to, “faith” has a hold of us.

  86. joycemb says:
    February 20, 2015 at 11:56 am

    Good morning all!
    James 4:1 is on my mind today. What passions do I have within that need to be put to death? (Not asking for feedback, thanks. Just thinking out loud.) Soul searching is a humbling process. I think I will linger here a while with my best Friend Jesus.

  87. joycemb says:
    February 20, 2015 at 2:48 pm

    An important fruit, self-control. Galatians 5:22-26

  88. remarutho says:
    February 20, 2015 at 5:33 pm

    Good Afternoon All —

    Mart, you wrote concerning the love in 1 Cor 13:1-13:
    “…Who such love comes from…
    and where He is leading us.”

    His love and His presence are the high ground, it seems to me.

    The greatest love in the universe is God’s love in Jesus — and this loving Savior of ours is leading us to the cross. He is calling each one to lay it all down to answer Him. Surely what Jesus has for those who follow is immensely greater than anything the world can offer.

    His glory is greater than the darkest places of human souls, in my opinion.

    Maru

  89. oneg2dblu says:
    February 20, 2015 at 8:31 pm

    street… I like this particular description for the word linger: To stay on as if reluctant to leave.
    Or to endure, to continue to live or exist.
    Sounds to me like the position of the Holy Spirit which dwells in the heart of the believer, to remain, or to dwell with interest or pleasure.
    What a joy to know His Commanding Presence as our God-given Helper.
    Gary

  90. Regina says:
    February 21, 2015 at 8:01 am

    Good Morning, All! :-)

    Off topic here…
    I woke up this morning with this song *solidly* in my mind and spirit, so I had to share…

    “Make Us One” (by Oscar Williams)

    You are my brother–
    And I’m praying for you–
    You are my sister–
    And I’m asking God to bless you–

    If divided we fall–
    Then united there’s nothing we can’t do–
    So, our *prayer* today is…

    Oh, oh LORD, please make us ONE–
    Tear down division and everything that keeps us from LOVE–
    In YOU there is no color, gender, denomination–
    Only one LORD, one Faith, one Baptism–
    Please make us ONE– (*Repeat two more times)

    Together we CAN
    Together we WILL
    Together we MUST (*Repeat as many times as you like)

    Think this Bible passage is a perfect match for this song:

    Psalm 133:1-3, NLT
    1) How wonderful and pleasant it is when brothers live together in harmony! 2) For harmony is as precious as the anointing oil that was poured over Aaron’s head, that ran down his beard and onto the border of his robe.
    3) Harmony is as refreshing as the dew from Mount Hermon
    that falls on the mountains of Zion. And there the Lord has pronounced his blessing, even life everlasting.

    Cloudy and 65 degrees in Dallas right now…

    Love to all,
    Regina

  91. remarutho says:
    February 21, 2015 at 9:00 am

    Good Morning BTA Friends —

    Must enthusiastically agree, Regina. When we consider how great the salvation we have been freely given, then we are ready to forgive and be forgiven. When forgiveness flows (out of the love of God as in 1 Cor 13) then the unity in the Holy Spirit becomes possible — that harmony celebrated in Psalm 133.

    Forgiveness is a continuous two-way street, it seems to me. Have taken up (again) forgiving old hurts and disappointments — sadness at my own failures in serving and loving Jesus — as a discipline of this Season before Easter.

    Have been pondering how the Lord may use even those who hate him to accomplish kingdom outcomes. Consider Babylon. The whole paradigm of the great city will come crashing down — commerce, culture, luxury, godlessness, cruelty. Yet, she will have served God’s purpose for her:

    “Do not remember the former things,
    or consider the things of old.

    I am about to do a new thing;
    now it springs forth, do you not perceive it?
    I will make a way in the wilderness
    and rivers in the desert.” Isaiah 43:18-19

    Surely we are called to forgive our persecutors and to love the unlovable, in view of the high ground of God’s grace perfectly lived out in Jesus.

    “But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.”

    Blessings all day,
    Maru

    42F and partly cloudy in the Willamette Valley

  92. joycemb says:
    February 21, 2015 at 10:51 am

    Maru and Regina in light of what you both said about forgiveness and harmony I am rereading Marts last sentence: I’m thinking that, in one way or another, Paul’s love song may help us understand the spirit and intent of everything that Jesus ever said to anyone?

    To think that whatever Jesus said or did was out of love is a tough thing to wrap our minds around sometimes. yet, it was those who also could not wrap their heads around love that rejected, ridiculed, and even killed Him. Love is a hard thing to do sometimes.

    But I try because I love Jesus and He continually teaches me how to do that sometimes hard thing, love.

    We continue to get about an inch of snow a week which has been melting off, highly unusual for MN. This weekend is our towns Winterama festival with games and fun on the frozen lake. I’ll just stay inside, thank you, as our high is -4 and low is -18.

    Wishing and praying all a safe, warm weekend,
    Joyce

  93. jeff1 says:
    February 21, 2015 at 2:26 pm

    It is a fine line between love and hate I have found. When you look at some relationships where one has loved and the person does not recipe rate then the person’s love can turn to hate.

    We can do things out of love and cause damage especially to our children who do not always see it the way we meant it and react badly to us. Love lived out is more complex because we are all so different and react differently depending on our beliefs. If we try to force our beliefs it can backfire so it is best to be patient and let others get to believe in their time and continue setting an example instead of always preaching to them.

    I once read that our children are more likely to imitate us in their adulthood then remember what we told them.
    I have found with my own children that I may correct them for something and they may not seem to be taken any notice but later on I find that their actions tells me I did get through after all.

    Pride often gets in the way of them admitting they were wrong but at least if they change their behaviour then all is not lost. Actions can speak louder than words.

    My children are actually adults now, but it is an Irish thing, an Englishman told me, that we always treat them like children no matter their age or role in life.

  94. SFDBWV says:
    February 21, 2015 at 4:25 pm

    Thinking a bit today about Maru’s thoughts of Mart’s comment “and where he is leading us.”

    A few years back Mart had a subject up about Paul’s oratories and Jesus’, questioning whether they were different, connected, or the same. Asking if Christianity was more about what Paul said or what Jesus said.

    Which leads me to what Mart ask “where he is leading us.”

    Seeing that it was Paul who wrote the text we are discussing, are we seeing it as if it were given by our Lord or by Paul; is there a difference?

    Is Paul trying to lead us to Jesus with all of the dictates and advice he has given or trying to tell us how we should live?

    Just like the Sermon on the Mount and many commandments from both God the Father and Christ the Son, 1Corinthians 13 seems impossible to fully obtain.

    And so we end up feeling guilty because we can’t live up to such a standard or on such a pinnacle as the “high ground” of morality.

    It seems to me that if we consider all of Scripture to be Holy Spirit inspired and every word written to be from God, is then God simply giving us impossible goals to show us our need to be under the Blood of Jesus and no matter how well we try always in need of the covering of Jesus’ sacrifice?

    No one I know of can live up to the standards set forth here, no one.

    Anger is part of life, can any one of you honestly say that you are not angry about ISIS executing 21 Coptic Christians just a couple days ago?

    When someone lies to you or uses you to get something from you, are you not angered by it?

    Can you say that you can completely forgive the offences some people have inflicted upon you?

    It is written if you don’t, not to expect forgiveness from God. The point being to me that forgiveness can only be possible because it is afforded to Jesus by His sacrifice alone, not even by one single thing we do.

    We may be a peculiar people, a holy nation, but we are still only people.

    It finally got out of the negative numbers today at 32 degrees, as the falling snow is predicted to turn to freezing rain. Amazing it was -8 this morning a 3:30 am and only 02 at 7:30 but rose to 32 about 2pm. Is supposed to be back into the negative numbers Monday night.

    Joyce a few years ago Mart posted pictures I sent him when we got 24 feet of snow that winter and broke a state record for the most snowfall in the month of February. It is the elevation not the latitude.

    Be blessed

    Steve

  95. street says:
    February 21, 2015 at 4:44 pm

    where is He leading us? He told us. he is going to conform us to the image of His Son, the First born of many brethren.

  96. poohpity says:
    February 21, 2015 at 4:55 pm

    I guess I have never expected anyone to act anyway other than the way they act. People are not here to live up to my expectations nor am I here to live up to theirs actually it is rather futile. I have enough trouble tackling the many areas in my own life and the ways I mess up to continually to look at/to others. One of the primary and foremost reasons to keep my eyes on Jesus who knows my heart fully and is willing to work with me until my life here is done. Praise Jesus who is the One that loves as Paul described in 1 Cor 13:4-7 NLT and I fully believe it is a trustworthy goal to walk towards and Jesus is the One who does the job of changing us, nothing we can do on our own. So giving everyone a break(showing mercy) gives me the most peace and trust God for the rest.

  97. bubbles says:
    February 21, 2015 at 5:55 pm

    Friends,
    It’s been snowing here since I woke at 4:11 a.m. without stop. I dug out my car on Wednesday, and now there’s 18 inches between my car and the street. There’s 8 inches in the middle of the street between tire tracks. I don’t know how much is on the roof, I’m guessing a foot before I shoveled on Wednesday, so there could be as much as 33 inches on the roof. Please, please pray the roof holds. We are supposed to get rain and sleet later on tonight which will make the snow even heavier. I’ve moved everything of importance and took pictures for insurance purposes.

    I’m not worried, but a collapsed roof would be a mess. Thank you for your prayers.

  98. street says:
    February 21, 2015 at 6:00 pm

    poo said,”nothing we can do on our own. ”

    Jesus said John 14:15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

    this love God has for sinners is of the chart of man.

  99. jeff1 says:
    February 21, 2015 at 6:10 pm

    I agree Steve that we are only people but God loves a ‘trier’
    and the icing on the cake is that God loves you even if you don’t succeed. There is a song goes like:

    It’s a lesson all should heed,
    Try, try, try again;
    Then your courage will appear,
    If you only persevere,
    You will conquer, never fear!
    Try, try, try again.

    Two or three times you should fail,
    Try, try, try again;
    If at last you would prevail,
    Try, try, try again;
    when you try its no disgrace
    If you fail to win the race,
    Bravely, then in such a case
    Try, try, try again.

  100. poohpity says:
    February 21, 2015 at 7:20 pm

    street, the other part of the sentence which that snipit was taken from was, “Jesus is the One who does the job of changing us, nothing we can do on our own”. Another way of putting it, it is Jesus’ work in our lives that changes us. Sometimes when part of a sentence is taken out of context it can twist the meaning.

    bubbles praying for you.

  101. narrowpathseeker says:
    February 21, 2015 at 7:24 pm

    Regina, I couldn’t get on here until now, but I wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed the song about harmony, love and peace. I hope you had a Blessed day.
    Pearl

  102. narrowpathseeker says:
    February 21, 2015 at 7:29 pm

    Steve, I guess the weather is crazy all over. I hope you, Matt, and Glenna stay warm and safe.

    Bubbles I hope the same for you and your family. I will be praying for both of you.

  103. saled says:
    February 21, 2015 at 7:54 pm

    Praying that your roof holds, bubbles. Lots of people in the same boat in my area. Tons of snow on roofs and wet snow, maybe rain coming tonight.

  104. bubbles says:
    February 21, 2015 at 7:58 pm

    narrow, thank you.

  105. bubbles says:
    February 21, 2015 at 7:58 pm

    saled, just saw your post. I’ll pray for you too.

  106. narrowpathseeker says:
    February 21, 2015 at 8:28 pm

    I am a mother, grandmother, great grandmother, mother-in-law, and/or grand mother-in-law to 32 diverse family members. I am also sister, cousin, aunt, grand aunt, great grand aunt, and/or all the inlaw facet of those titles in that part of the family realm. Again, a very diverse group. I LOVE them all to one degree or another. I am not always at peace with all of them, but we always manage to work things out somewhere down the road..

    I think I can make this point better if focused on my children and their descendants. I love them very much and I don’t think there is anything that I couldn’t forgive them for. However, if I was raising children today in this day and age, I would probably be writing this from prison. When they were doing wrong, they were punished…if they lied or denied any wrongdoing and I KNEW for certain they had done it…the punishment was more severe. I always told them that the truth could set them free so to speak…and often I did make the punishment so light when they were honest and remorseful that by the time they were teenagers, they were relatively honest for that age group..

    the point is ..I loved them .I made plenty of mistakes…I wasn’t the mother of the year material…I got very angry if they lied, but got over it almost immediately if they confessed and were sorry…I can’t help but think God feels the same way..we are going to do things wrong, but honesty and remorse are key to mercy…

    I could be wrong. While I have learned and forgot more scriptures than I will ever remember, I think I remember the gist of what I’ve learned. One thing that has stayed strong in my mind is that Satan is the father of lies..and I learned this very young therefore my strong punishments for my children for lying and sometimes none for telling the truth. None the less, I LOVED THEM NO MATTER WHAT.. I’m just saying that maybe we don’t fall AS FAR short of loving others as we beat ourselves up for . We fall short …YES, but I don’t think we are as far off the chart as some of us think we are at times.

  107. street says:
    February 21, 2015 at 8:55 pm

    poo said,” “Jesus is the One who does the job of changing us, nothing we can do on our own”.”

    Jesus is the One who satisfies the demands of God’s justice. when jerimiah went down to see the potter. the clay was not co-operating so he reformed it again.

    if there is nothing we can do how can He hold us accountable for what we did?

    you have point to a degree, but we must do the things we can do. like when He says go, wait, don’t, do, and other things we do and don’t do every day. the Holy Spirit is really good at reminding us.

    Jeremiah 18:1-17 jeremiah would have never got the message if he had not gone to the potters house. usually you understand after the fact, not before. it’s a way God builds trust in us for Him. a word of caution the heart is desperately wicked and until you are well grounded in God’s word and familiar with God’s voice it can be difficult. even moses and joshuah messed up. Thank God for His Mercy! nothing is too difficult for God.

  108. poohpity says:
    February 21, 2015 at 9:38 pm

    street, it is not my point. “And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns.” Phil 1:6 If it is the potter that remolds the pot then it is in fact the Lord that changes us.

    You are right that Jesus satisfied God’s demand for justice. That is a different part.

    Doing what we are asked to do is also a different part but even us following His command seems to be done with His almighty help. John 15:12 NLT

  109. Regina says:
    February 21, 2015 at 10:27 pm

    Good Evening, All

    So glad we’re in agreement, maru, and forgiveness and living in harmony with one’s brothers and sisters in Christ is crucial for the person who wants to take the “high ground” or “high road,” joycemb. God is so desirous for us, his children (1 John 3:1), to live together in harmony with one another that He spent a LOT of time teaching us through His Word and the transforming power of the Holy Spirit. God wants us to put forth *much effort* to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. Want to share some Bible verses with yall… Mark 12:31; John 15:13; John 17:11b; 1 Cor. 12:12-14; Eph. 4:1-3 and Phil. 2:1-4.

    So glad you enjoyed the song, narrow! It’s one of my favs because it speaks to the importance of unity among brethren, those who are of the household of faith and in covenant relationship with God (Gal. 6:10).

    Also praying for you, bubbles (Num. 6:24, NLT), that your roof won’t collapse, and it’s good to know that you and phpatato are still blogging on the BTA blog! Been thinking about Bob (Cornwall) too, and it was good to hear that Steve heard from him recently.

    Partly cloudy and 53 degrees in Dallas right now…

    Love to all,
    Regina

  110. oneg2dblu says:
    February 21, 2015 at 11:03 pm

    street… you make a great point, overlooked many times by others who relish a false sense of complacency.
    How very wise to fully understand our responsibility and our accountability for our lives or our actions “after” we are Saved and living Under Grace.

    A action lesson on repentance is certainly proved by this…
    After we are found living in true repentance, or our actual turning away from sin and turning toward God, or having, If you will… a proper way of walking circumspectly, or in proper relationship with Christ, or a way of producing fruit in keeping with repentance, change will be seen in how we actually live.
    I believe for those who have wandered, for whatever reason, there needs to be a renewed coming to one’s senses, not just a remorse, but,an actual repentant returning.
    One that goes beyond just our saying we once believed, and are now saying,”Lord ,Lord,” only to hear Christ to say, “Away from me you evildoer, I never knew you.”
    But, that message does not sit well with the, “we can do nothing” crowd, who may not like to address any responsibility for their part, finding complacency is where they exist or linger…But, There will be an accountability taken for all believers, and by not addressing any accountability in the here and now, perhaps because we were falsely taught that way, we may actually miss out on an opportunity to be blessed even more, and used more for the purposes of the Kingdom of God.
    Here is one example: Just because, “we can do nothing,” we purposely avoid tithing and then find that by this is a sin of omission, for you have failed the very test which God says you are to test Him with, and by failing that test, would you still expect to be awarded the blessing a faithful, cheerful tither receives? Of course not, because you did nothing.
    Now if you give only to receive a blessing, then your motive, and your heart is wrong and you still fail the test as well.
    Instead of sharing a we can do nothing teaching, how about this?
    I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me?
    Gary

  111. poohpity says:
    February 21, 2015 at 11:09 pm

    street, I think you will find that the characteristics and actions of love in 1 Cor 13 resemble the fruit of the Holy Spirit which seems to be only possible because of God’s presence in lives. That is why we can not boast about anything cause it all comes from God.

    The Fruit of the Spirit= love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

    Compare

    Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.

  112. jeff1 says:
    February 22, 2015 at 6:17 am

    I was listening to gospel hour on the radio this morning.
    I find in my church that the older hymns are not sung very much anymore. This is one I heard this morning and the words are said to be the most profound, inspiring, encouraging, sacred, devotional and precious words every penned.

    The hymn was a favourite of Prince Albert who asked it be played on his deathbed, as did Confederate General J.E.B. Stuart. It was also played at the funeral of William Ewart Gladstone.

    In his book Hymns That Have Helped W. T. Stead reported “when the SS London went down in the Bay of Biscay, 11 January 1866, the last thing which the last man who left the ship heard as the boat pushed off from the doomed vessel was the voices of the passengers singing “Rock of Ages”.

    The significance of the gospel in the hymn Rock of Ages. Christ was “cleft”- split apart, apart from the Father, in order to make a way, forcefully!, through sin. He made a hiding place for me, a way, for me to be found in Christ, and with the Father.

    Rock of Ages, cleft for me.
    Let me hide myself in Thee;
    Let the water and the blood.
    From Thy riven side which flowed,
    Be of sin the double cure,
    Cleanse me from its guilt and power.

    Not the labour of my hands
    Can fulfil Thy law’s demands;
    Could my zeal no respite know.
    Could my tears forever flow,
    All for sin could not atone;
    Thou must save, and Thou alone.

    Nothing in my hand I bring,
    Simply to Thy cross I cling;
    Naked, come to Thee for dress;
    Helpless, look to Thee for grace;
    Foul, I to the fountain fly;
    Wash me, Saviour, or I die!

    While I draw this fleeting breath.
    When mine eyes shall close in death.
    When I soar to worlds unknown.
    See, Thee on Thy judgement throne
    Rock of Ages, cleft for me.
    Let me hide myself in Thee.

  113. oneg2dblu says:
    February 22, 2015 at 9:57 am

    jeff1… thanks for sharing those songs they each have a specific spiritually derived message, as One would say, “God loves a trier.”
    “A lesson all should heed, Try, try, try again.”
    Reminds me of other songs with similar messages like, Donnie McClurkin, “we fall down, But we get up,” and another is “Stand.”
    Today’s message at God at Eventide speaks to a Wonder Work.
    I find it that parallels with why each believer who is given specific “Gifts of the Spirit,” to be used as a wonder work for the Kingdom. They are found in, 1 Corinthians 12: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11 (NIV)
    Try,try,try again…
    Gary

  114. oneg2dblu says:
    February 22, 2015 at 10:02 am

    Here’s the gift in a quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson…
    “When none be he knows, what that is which he can do,
    Nor does he, until he has tried.”
    Gary

  115. joycemb says:
    February 22, 2015 at 12:12 pm

    Gatewaybiblicalcounseling dot org has an excellent teaching called “put off, put on” with details of the process of change from our old lives to the new life as Christians.

  116. narrowpathseeker says:
    February 22, 2015 at 1:16 pm

    Good Afternoon Friends. Today, I just want to say thank you to all my old friends and new here for your heartfelt thoughts and the correlating experiences that you share. I hope you all or “y’all”(I’m a southerner now)have had and will continue to have a Blessed day. I am going to spend some time checking out Joyce’s suggested site for “put off, put on”. :-)

    I hope that Bubbles roof is ok

  117. cbrown says:
    February 22, 2015 at 1:49 pm

    Gary, recently I was talking to a man that had been in and out of prison several times and was preparing to be released after serving his current sentence. I asked him if he liked prison and said “no”.I then asked him how he was going to keep from coming back and he said he was going to try harder but that had not worked in the past.The Lord directed me to encourage the man to ask God for help and to seek his help each day.

  118. cbrown says:
    February 22, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    and to seek “His” help each day.

  119. joycemb says:
    February 22, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    I found this from the site i mentioned earlier and find it so true in many areas of my life:

    “It is not easy to change sinful patterns and habits that have been practiced for years. A great struggle can be expected at first. However, as we persevere with a desire to please God, eventually the old ways will fade and become less and less dominant in our life. ”

    I like that word ‘dominant’ as it gracefully explains how those things still pop up sometimes.

  120. joycemb says:
    February 22, 2015 at 2:00 pm

    Becoming less and less dominant, fading, all good descriptors and hope inducing!

  121. cbrown says:
    February 22, 2015 at 2:52 pm

    Joyce,I went back and read the article in Gatewaybiblicalcounseling dot org, “put off” and “put on”. Thank you.

  122. street says:
    February 22, 2015 at 4:03 pm

    could not read through all the responses without posting this verse that comes to mind, Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.

    to borrow a phrase, “just do it” in Christ.

  123. street says:
    February 22, 2015 at 4:24 pm

    dear poo some thoughts come to mind after thinking about what you wrote. i think God is looking for love, compassion, courage, honesty, loyalty in the human heart. this is why He rejected the religious leaders of His time. these fruits are manifested by human action. we can counterfeit them. the world has been doing it for a long time and people eventually wake up and throw them out, whether a marriage or government. the hard part is surrendering to God to the point he can mold these qualities into our hearts. we can not pick and chose what He does. that is the part of my struggle. mostly about the future. i should be more concerned with the troubles of the current day.

  124. bubbles says:
    February 22, 2015 at 4:33 pm

    Friends, thank you for praying. The roof held and the rain didn’t come. Thank you!

  125. Regina says:
    February 22, 2015 at 4:36 pm

    Good Afternoon, All

    It’s cold and rainy in Dallas today. We’re actually having a “winter” day. Lol! We’ve been having a lot of Spring weather days over the past two weeks, so I’m enjoying the rain today. I, too, thank you, Jeff1 for sharing the powerful hymn, “Rock of Ages” with us! I think that’s a powerful “soul stirring,” hymn, and, you’re right, we don’t sing hymns like that as much as we should. Thinking about “The Solid Rock,” “Nearer, My God, to Thee,” “At the Cross,” “There’s A Fountain Filled With Blood,” “Sweet Hour of Prayer,” “I’ll Fly Away,” “Jerusalem (The Hoppers Version!),” “It Is Well With My Soul,” “I Go to the Rock,” “He Walks With Me,” and “Sweet, Sweet Spirit” to name a few. And thank you for sharing the historical background information on the song as well. Gonna share that info with my facebook friends.

    Narrow, Texans say, “yall” all the time! We say it so much until I think it should be added to the Webster’s Dictionary! Lol! And we don’t add the apostrophe either. That’s not needed. Bubbles, I’m glad that narrow gave you a “shout out” because she put you in my thoughts as well. I, too, hope/pray that your roof is ok and that you’re ok. I’ve never seen snow like you described the other day… We got a lot of snow in my neck of the woods, more than we had seen in several years, about a year or two ago, and we couldn’t drive anywhere for about 3 or 4 days. Well, when we were finally able to come out of our houses (because the snow and ice had pretty much melted off of the streets and roads), we didn’t know what to do with ourselves! So, my neighbors and I “high-tailed” it to the grocery store, and by the time we got there (we had to drive very slow because some of the roads still had big slabs of icy snow on them), every shelf in the store was either empty or almost empty! I had never seen anything like that in my lifetime! I didn’t know what to do… I thought to myself, “God forbid that we should have a serious shut-in”! I don’t know what would happen, and I didn’t want to think about that anymore. So, I bought what I could from the slim pickings and went home. Sorry if I bored anyone. I’m a little “wordy” at times…

    Love to all,
    Regina

  126. Regina says:
    February 22, 2015 at 4:40 pm

    Thank you for the update on your situation, bubbles! You and I almost posted a comment at the same time! :)

  127. street says:
    February 22, 2015 at 5:17 pm

    wow joyecmb saw the list of put off/ put on! that will keep me busy forever!

  128. joycemb says:
    February 22, 2015 at 5:50 pm

    We haven’t ‘arrived’ in our Christian walk until we get Home. Always something in us that needs changing which is why it’s important to keep our focus on Christ.

  129. street says:
    February 22, 2015 at 6:32 pm

    i like to think enoch and elijah arrived! hehe

  130. narrowpathseeker says:
    February 22, 2015 at 6:38 pm

    Joyce, thank you. I really like that site and have put it in favorites. Sometimes I don’t see the correlation between scripture and the struggle at hand. For instance, at the very beginning it mentions it is not enough for a thief to say he is sorry every time he steals but that he must become a laborer and gift giver..then the scripture reference is this..

    Do Not Grieve the Spirit

    25 Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,”[a] for we are members of one another.

    OK…I think I just got it…if we say we are sorry and continue to do the same thing over and over…we are liars? Yikes, that one I have to really pray about …I am so into the Truth and Honesty thing ..it is tasting a little like crow to think of myself as a liar. OK…I STILL like the site Joyce. I thought I was very aware of all of my own sins.

  131. narrowpathseeker says:
    February 22, 2015 at 6:47 pm

    Regina, you are never boring…I always enjoy your posts. As I get older, I have more and more time but get slower and slower so I don’t get much done in the time that in my day if I had that much time I could have accomplished everything I needed to do!! Therefore a 30 second post to acknowledge the fact that I enjoyed someone’s post might take me 2 hours, because some days I can’t remember simple words…others days I can…then I don’t shut up.. ;-) Anyway, please know that I enjoy all that you share… I haven’t really started talking like that YET here in NC but I haven’t been here all that long..but I hear it everyday…so I am sure some of it will rub off on me. I like it.

  132. street says:
    February 22, 2015 at 6:52 pm

    dear mart it just occurred to me, something that we are doing while we are thinking & discussing. we are developing a type of systematic theology. it’s not on purpose, but trying understand and know God. some how i picked up, that systematic theology does not work because you have parts left over. i am glad the Holy Spirit teaches and explains things in God’s timing and i do have an idea of iron sharpening iron. but i think the best teacher is obedience to God’s Word. i understand that to linger in God’s Word is a great gift. but sometimes through circumstance it can be taken away from us. hold tightly to what you have been given the days are evil. the nights will be more trying. don’t worry Jesus said, ” I have overcome the world.” obedience is costly, you have to deny yourself. hope this is not too far off topic

  133. narrowpathseeker says:
    February 22, 2015 at 6:54 pm

    Bubbles, so glad all is well!! Thanks be to our Lord.

    I hope all is well with Saled too.

  134. joycemb says:
    February 22, 2015 at 7:26 pm

    Narrow I find I it so easy to deceive myself and when I really read the details about how to live as a Christian sometimes it’s hard to bear, but for Christ and His perfect sacrifice we would all be like “woe is me, a terrible sinner” but like the patient loving Dad she is He feels grieved when we sin but doesn’t give up on us. That word/verb LOVE is truly astonishing isn’t it? When I don’t live up to Paul’s description I may hang my head a bit in consternation but when I think that the creator, if you will, of love loves me perfectly I am rejuvenated and renews efforts again to change.

    God actually coming down in my church and filling me with a huge “I love you – it’s going to be ok” like hug is how He got my attention for the first time when I was 30 and a young mother who didn’t have a clue how to love. It was that moment that my old self died but its’ ghost still likes to haunt me sometimes. The Bible straightens me out about that all the time.

    So glad Bubbles your roof is intact, praying for people to shovel it off for you. Also continuing to pray for all in bad weather and dealing with loss and depression.

    Street I like your synopsis of this site.

  135. joycemb says:
    February 22, 2015 at 7:30 pm

    Oops! loving Dad He is…

  136. oneg2dblu says:
    February 22, 2015 at 7:49 pm

    cbrown… I hope he tries exactly what you suggested.
    Perhaps he will. Try it, and try it, and try it again.

    I remember hearing a great true story about how the Seagulls would comb the beach and get hold of a clam or an oyster or a mussel which was certainly too hard for them to crack open, but somehow they learned to take it up in the air and drop it on the surrounding roadway or parking lot’s hard surface, over and over, until like a bad habit,)it eventually breaks.
    Then the Gull, just like those who finally conquer their faults/addictions/bad habits, will find a sweet treat awaits them, and all their hard work was not in vain, for those Who try, and try, and try again.

    We all fall down, but we get back up.

    “The life that counts must toil and fight,
    Must hate the wrong and love the right.
    Must stand for truth, by day, by night-
    This is the life that counts.”
    Anon

    Gary

  137. joycemb says:
    February 22, 2015 at 7:58 pm

    Love that story Gary, I’m going to smile the next time I see the Gulls overhead (except for the occasional ‘droppings’ if you’re not lucky)!

  138. poohpity says:
    February 22, 2015 at 8:58 pm

    Today I heard a quote from C.S. Lewis, “Humility is not thinking less of yourself, it is thinking of yourself less.”

  139. joycemb says:
    February 22, 2015 at 9:27 pm

    A more positive spin on CS Lewis’ quote is found in Proverbs 22:4 the NLT study Bible says: Fear of the LORD goes hand in hand with humility. A humble person knows that he is not the center of the universe. Humility is more valuable than wealth.

    I guess I like the study Bibles’ description better as it talks about what it is not. Not trying to argue with you Pooh, just making the use of the word humility clearer in my mind :)
    Remember we think differently- nothing personal in my post. Getting tired, almost time for a nap! Have a good night, Pooh and all.

  140. joycemb says:
    February 22, 2015 at 9:35 pm

    I don’t think that self- abasement is false humility if that’s what you think, I think it is simply self-abasement due to a lack of self-esteem. I don’t think there is a scripture that says a Christian must have good self-esteem to be Christlike as are discussed in the prison epistles.

    Sorry way off topic; just sleepily meandering.

  141. poohpity says:
    February 22, 2015 at 11:06 pm

    I think C.S. Lewis was speaking of Paul’s description of humility in Phil 2:3-4 NASB “Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.

  142. joycemb says:
    February 22, 2015 at 11:21 pm

    I like the first 2 verses, Phil. 2:1,2 they start out positive using the example of the God- head for how the Body of Christ should get along. It’s easier for me to learn by what is good than to focus on what is not. I get too depressed and down easily. I’ve seen too much evil in all forms in my lifetime. I just like focusing on the Good as a rule except for times of searching introspection but I try not to linger there. :)

  143. oneg2dblu says:
    February 23, 2015 at 10:26 am

    joyce… thanks for sharing that opening context, for the full context is so much more than the picking out of (stand alone) verses. We should be mixing of the do’s and don’ts, the negative and the positive, the shall and the shall not, (IF) we feel so convicted to do so, but, we like to get to the point quickly and all of us don’t have the same amount of time to devote to answering all accusations in unending questions.
    So, we don’t always respond to each other that way, as we all tend to use just a snipit, to borrow that word if you will, as we continue to use parts of God’s Word, and sometimes our mix in own when it fits into our attempt to communicate our point.

    My older NIV, (which is not able to be displayed here,) says it this way in Philippians 2:1,2.
    “If you have any encouragement from being united in Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and love and purpose.
    Wow!
    “Make my joy complete by being like-minded…”

    Wouldn’t that mean we would start our thoughts with, now that we are in Christ together, is there not something else we should do?
    Today’s God at Eventide really addresses this “work to do” issue for me, and is worthy of looking a,t and lingering with if need be.
    In His Love, Gary

  144. oneg2dblu says:
    February 23, 2015 at 10:28 am

    I may be wrong, but isn’t all Higher Ground built upon to supporting sides?
    Be Blessed. Gary

  145. joycemb says:
    February 23, 2015 at 10:33 am

    Gary I love that analogy, thanks and have a great day!

  146. poohpity says:
    February 23, 2015 at 10:34 am

    From what I have seen self abasement or self abuse leads to treating others that way as well it seems that misery loves company. The abused become the abuser. It is a very bad habit that is passed down from generation to generation. Our parents were critical of us we learn to be critical of ourselves and others but with the Lord that chain can be broken. It is like a chain reaction when we learn of the Lord’s love for us we learn to love ourselves and then we are able to love others.

  147. joycemb says:
    February 23, 2015 at 11:08 am

    Yes Pooh I so agree and it is Christ who can break that cycle of abuse, one day at a time as you and I both know. It often takes a lifetime to reverse the damage done to us. When I read the Bible I sometimes forget that the great heros of the faith like Moses and Paul had to go away for years before they could return to do what God had called them to do. No supernatural quick-fixes. For me personally it’s the waiting for God to work in my kids’ lives as they work through the abuse they suffered from myself and their father. But knowing they have a firm foundation in Christ gives me hope. I am sure it gives you hope also.

  148. poohpity says:
    February 23, 2015 at 11:44 am

    You do not think that Moses or Paul had a supernatural quick-fix? I guess I see it so differently. (i.e. the burning bush for Moses; the blinding light from heaven for Paul) A life changing experience for both in an instant which has happened to so many, many more people through the ages who have actually came to believe and follow. Not saying that the work in their lives ever stopped as it is a continuing process but their lives and desires changed at that moment.

  149. street says:
    February 23, 2015 at 12:04 pm

    poo i think it took 40 years to get moses back to where he needed to be in the land of midian. it also let israel to fill it’s full term of service in egypt. God does act according to His steadfast love and mercy. He changes not.

    she is right paul spent many years getting to know Jesus before he served Him the way that is recorded. i think there is a pattern here for most of us. i hope we are not like moses in his early ministry.

  150. poohpity says:
    February 23, 2015 at 12:08 pm

    kjKSJcnjhcs jsk ksjcikd jkoiwic okko’wpssql oj qwjoilk ooiwk ppw mq’p p2ww w1 2o o d3 2iojq.

  151. oneg2dblu says:
    February 24, 2015 at 9:41 am

    For most of us here who have already had our God-given Awakening Moment, our Spiritual Rebirth, if you will, who are still growing, maturing, learning, and Under His Influence, we or disciples, but, or walk/talk still needs some correcting.
    Whether we will we accept it, or reject it, depends on who’s will we are serving, either in the spirit, or in the flesh.

    Luke 6:44,45,46 shows the fruit we bare, our witness, our testimony, our legacy, and our failures.

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