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Life Light and Love

Mart De Haan Posted by Mart DeHaan
September 13th, 2015
247 Comments » 

P1020402In spite of the wealth and diversity of life in and around us, how often do we hear of efforts to replicate—or explain the mystical something that animates a single living cell?

Yet every multi-billion dollar space probe carries with it the hope of discovering that spontaneously generated life is not unique to us.

One of Jesus’ close friends believed that he had found the Source of everlasting life… spiritual light… and perfect love.

If he was right, what more is there to look for? Where else to look? How else to love?

Who else to worship?


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Filed in Worship

247 Responses to “Life Light and Love”

  1. SFDBWV says:
    September 13, 2015 at 6:17 am

    One of the other Christian based organizations I am connected to is the Institute for Creation Research and have a DVD series titled “Unlocking The Mysteries of Genesis” from them.

    It is one of those things I really didn’t need to learn as it was more a need to feel I have accredited company in my beliefs.

    I immediately thought of this series when Mart mentioned mankind’s looking for “that spontaneously generated life” as being not unique to us.

    One of sciences unshakeable findings is that life only comes from life and that the seed of every living thing is within itself alone.

    Not to be forced into believing the Genesis account of God creating life some scientists believe life came here to our planet by way of a comet or meteor. And yes we spend billions of dollars trying to prove their theories.

    I agree Mart, once we have found Jesus to be Lord our search is over and we can rest as we worship Him by living as He has ask/commanded us to.

    Now I can go and get a little rest away from the computer.

    Steve

  2. joycemb says:
    September 13, 2015 at 9:45 am

    Psalm 59:17 O my Strength, to you I sing praises, for you, O God, are my refuge, the God who shows me unfailing love.

  3. joycemb says:
    September 13, 2015 at 11:12 am

    John 1:6-9, God sent a man, John the Baptist, to tell about the light so that everyone might believe because of his testimony. John himself was not the light; he was simply a witness to tell about the light. The one who is the true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.

    Thinking about the difference between Jesus the Light, and man made religion, that being what we call ourselves, whether Christians, Pentecostal, Catholic, Apostolic, Non-denominational, mainline or whatever. When the rules of our “religion” overshadow the light of Christ, we are lost once again in darkness.

  4. jeff1 says:
    September 13, 2015 at 11:51 am

    That is very true Joyce denominations argue this and that and God goes to the bottom of the list. In all honesty what have I done for God, I can only speak for myself but I am ashamed to say I have done nothing it is He who has saved me from myself for I have been my own worst enemy in putting my trust in men first and God last.

  5. joycemb says:
    September 13, 2015 at 12:00 pm

    Viv I did the very same thing and like you ended up getting hurt and misguided. Staying in the Light, the Spirit is the way to go, because then the things of earth become manageable shadows under the awesome power of God!

  6. jeff1 says:
    September 13, 2015 at 12:01 pm

    In the process I am bruised and broken and am in fear of my shadow. Yet it is God I can go to and find rest while men will condemn me for my weakness and my failures. It is always on the rough road that I find God.

  7. joycemb says:
    September 13, 2015 at 12:07 pm

    Me too Viv, me too.

  8. joycemb says:
    September 13, 2015 at 12:09 pm

    But really I condemn myself more than people do. It’s an ongoing battle.

  9. joycemb says:
    September 13, 2015 at 2:01 pm

    Viv when you said, ” In all honesty what have I done for God, I can only speak for myself but I am ashamed to say I have done nothing” I cringed because you need not be ashamed, because nothing we can do for God makes him love us more or less than He already does. Adding up what we have done for God makes it all about us, and not Him. We never know how the Spirit is working in us, and if we see or don’t see fruits that’s up to Him and not us. We can go and tell and share and witness or whatever you want to call it, but as Jesus says in John 2:23-25

    “Because of the miraculous signs Jesus did in Jerusalem at the Passover celebration, many began to trust in him. 24 But Jesus didn’t trust them, because he knew all about people. 25 No one needed to tell him about human nature, for he knew what was in each person’s heart”.

    his expectations of us are nil, because He knows human nature and knows what mankind is like.

    However, the Spirit of God in us bears fruit we are unable to bear without Him. Does that make sense to you?

  10. jeff1 says:
    September 13, 2015 at 7:02 pm

    There are times when I really know God is working in myself and others but equally there is times when it is a complete mystery to me. I am either completely aware of God working or else I am completely unaware. It is always the extremes for me. It is just that there are times when I feel so very sad, it is a sadness that I can not explain for I know God exists yet I can not help feeling overwhelmingly sad and that is what I cannot make sense of. It doesn’t stay with me this sadness but I cannot seem to talk about it for it consumes me and then it is gone and it is like I have never really been sad at all, if you understand where I am coming from. It can pass so quickly that I wonder did I ever feel it. I often feel very much at peace afterwards.

  11. joycemb says:
    September 13, 2015 at 8:21 pm

    Yes Viv I do understand where you are coming from; happens to me also. God is such a mystery isn’t He. I thank God for His peace. I too have periods of overwhelming sadness and have spent years in therapy trying to understand it but God doesn’t want to take it away. His grace is sufficient though.

  12. foreverblessed says:
    September 14, 2015 at 5:55 am

    Viv and Joyce, I happened to read Psalm 116 today, we are singing that tomorrow in church.
    Psalm 116:3
    The cords of death entangled me
    the anguish of the grave came upon me
    I was overcome by trouble and sorrow.
    v4 Then I called on the name of the Lord:
    “O Lord,save me!”

    v5 The Lord is gracious and righteous:
    our God is full of compassion.
    v6 The Lord protects the simple-hearted,
    when I was in great need,
    He saved me.

    The simple hearted that is to me, the ones who look up to God as their Redeemer, their Deliverer.
    The whole of Psalms is about God having a plan to rescue man that is in need.

    Staying focussed on God, whatever the mood, is the only way, Maybe even praising God, when in a dark mood, the dark mood has to flee for the Light that is from God.

  13. foreverblessed says:
    September 14, 2015 at 5:58 am

    The Psalm starts with David (?) telling how much he loved God. Psalm 116:1-2
    I love the Lord,
    for He heard my voice
    He heard my cry for mercy.
    Because He turned His Ear to me,
    I will call on Him as long as I live

  14. remarutho says:
    September 14, 2015 at 8:42 am

    Good Morning BTA Friends —

    Life, Light and Love!

    John, in his gospel and in his letters, pointed to Jesus of Nazareth as “the Source of everlasting life… spiritual light… and perfect love.” He went so far as to say that the coming of Christ into the world was the beginning of New Life and new creation.

    Later, Peter responded to the crowd’s wholesale rejection of Jesus with this: “Simon Peter answered Him, ‘Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.’”

    Peter expresses my belief that there is no other God, no other Messiah, no other Holy Spirit in all the universe, from the level of atomic particles to the level of human genetics (with all its issues of derivation, mutation and extinction) — and beyond into the behavior of super-novae, black holes and anti-matter that makes up the cosmos.

    John begins his first letter to the churches like this:

    “What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life— and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us— what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ. These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.

    “This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.”

    John is bold to proclaim the completion (fulfillment) of joy because the Light of God is the Love of God — and this comes through the Life of Jesus. This is the truth worth sharing!

    Joy all day,
    Maru

    51F and cloudy this morning.

  15. joycemb says:
    September 14, 2015 at 9:34 am

    Maru so good to read your uplifting, joy-filled posts again. Thank you for coming back.

    Vivien I am praying for you as for myself and all here a peaceful, joy-filled day in our Lord Jesus Christ.

  16. joycemb says:
    September 14, 2015 at 9:41 am

    Vivien this is a favorite verse I used to meditate on and say over and over again. Hope it helps you also:

    Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. Romans 8:1-2

    Love to you, Joyce

  17. jeff1 says:
    September 14, 2015 at 10:22 am

    Thank you, Joyce I will do likewise.

  18. SFDBWV says:
    September 14, 2015 at 11:14 am

    I often wondered how it was possible for the Hebrew people that witnessed the Exodus to forget all the earth shattering Miracles they had seen in less than 2 weeks, but the Bibles records just how fast they began to complain and worry about their next drink of water or their next meal.

    However life has taught me that we all soon forget the care and compassion that God provides us with just as soon as the sun sets on our last rescue or encounter with Him.

    This is a human condition and we all being human are subject to it.

    Over time being “anxious” about somethings lessen, but depending on the need our ability to be patient is always stretched to its limits.

    When I am afforded the opportunity to think before I react sometimes I am reminded of whole families who were fed to the lions or burned to death in the Roman arenas for the pleasure of Roman bloodlust who right up to their moment of death looked to Jesus and trusted God for whatever outcome would be their fate.

    I thank God I was not chosen for such faith, as I endure the trials of faith I have been given.

    It is no small wonder that people who have been burdened with bi-polar malady or even the lesser of just mood swings have difficulty balancing joy with dread, but life is just such a balance of good days and bad our only conciliation is found in having faith that God and His Son are with us and there is light at the end of the tunnel. It is Psalm 23 that always comes to my mind when I think of being in the valley of what seems like hopelessness.

    Maru I stared this early this morning and as is normal in my days interrupted with a long list of responsibilities before I could even consider finishing it. In fact I really don’t have the time right now I would like to have, but will conclude and post rather than just delete.

    I think your view and posting in right on with Marts questions to us and view of the Scripture matter.

    I too am glad to see you here. It was 41 this morning under a starry sky and is 62 presently under a cool fall like blue sky.

    Looks like a new furnace is in the future for us before winter…

    Steve

  19. oneg2dblu says:
    September 14, 2015 at 2:47 pm

    Steve… what fuel source will power that new furnace?
    I’ll assume for the moment if it is electric, probably the electric is from a coal powered power plant.

    Do you have a back up for times that the power may go out?
    Just curious…

    In the houses I’ve owned in the past I’ve had fuel oil fired furnaces, and gas furnaces, some with radiators and some with baseboard, and many with fireplaces as well, but now am totally depending on electric forced hot air.
    I removed the fireplace/backyard fire pit/ barbecue in this house when I did a total renovation in 1992.

    No joy of chopping your own heat or wood for the fireplace anymore for me, where one used to get warm twice, once when cutting the wood and again when burning it.

    Sorry, I did not mention coal, being that was part of your past life as well, which was what heated the house I grew up in, before it was also converted to gas.

    Having lived with coal furnaces, it makes watching the movie, A Christmas Story, even more enjoyable and real.

    I know today, it usually depends where you live and what sources are available, or what existed when you bought a particular type of abode.

    If I had my choice, I would prefer a clean gas fired furnace, but there is no natural gas buried in the street where I currently live.

    Well, maybe if I could dig deep enough…

    Oh yeah, around here, being just a few feet above Sea Level, and with a high water table to boot, you would hit water pretty quickly digging by hand.

    I guess you’ve probably gotten a little shot of the cooler stuff recently, and having a new heating system is a great thing.

    Gary

  20. SFDBWV says:
    September 14, 2015 at 5:11 pm

    Gary currently I have a natural gas forced air furnace. It is 43 years old. Last winter in the middle of the night on the very coldest night of the winter the blower motor went out. $650 later we were back to normal.

    Upon an annual inspection this week I discovered a problem with the “Honeywell” regulator ($600) and so after talking with the experts we are looking at the possibility of getting a new furnace.

    I do have a couple standing gas heaters and heat my garage as well with similar units.

    This house had a coal furnace before I bought it and 42 years later there is still coal dust between the walls, in the attic and everywhere when I renovate.

    Growing up we only had coal and wood stoves for heat. Nothing is as cold as getting out of bed in the morning before there was a fire in the stove and getting a fire going. I still remember how much fun I had cutting kindling wood and carrying in coal buckets and taking out ashes.

    Some may like the good old days but I do like just turning up the thermostat.

    You are 100% correct about wood heat. As there seems to be no end to gathering in wood and cutting it up for the winter.

    But all said it is always a good feeling to back up to a stove in the winter to get warm, I do sometimes miss that.

    I had a brother who lived out the last of his years in Florida in the Tampa area. The house he lived in near here with his wife and 6 children burned down one Christmas week from a flue fire in the 70’s, a casualty all too common with wood heat.

    The Sulphur in coal burns the soot out of the flues and one seldom sees flue fires from coal stoves, but they are very dirty and unhealthy for breathing, causing a variety of ailments as a result of long term exposure.

    It is only 59 degrees as I write and the weather will only be getting colder for the next several months so if I am going to have to spend a few thousand dollars for a new furnace, now is the time to do it.

    Then again maybe the “Rapture” will occur tonight and none of it will matter.

    Glad you are in a warmer climate, but this is always going to be home to me until God calls me home with Him.

    Matt and I have been up since 3:30 am, so bed time isn’t far off for us, I do hope you and all the others here have a good evening.

    Steve

  21. oneg2dblu says:
    September 14, 2015 at 6:10 pm

    Steve… yes flue fires are more common then we would like think, and where I lived in New England, Chimney Sweeps were very busy trying to keep up with the demand with so many homes having working fireplaces.
    I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced a flue fire in full rage, it is a scary thing watching embers flying out all over the immediate area.
    I used to love to sit around the fireplace and pass the hours, entertained by its sounds, smells, and of course all that warmth.
    Kind of like participating in a good blog session. :D

  22. remarutho says:
    September 15, 2015 at 1:26 am

    Good Evening All —

    On your post of 11:14 a.m (EDT) 09/14, Steve — I am strongly in favor of a close reading of the text.

    Mart’s references to a close friend of Jesus (“One of Jesus’ close friends believed that he had found the Source of everlasting life… spiritual light… and perfect love.”) sent me immediately to the Apostle John, as you can see (1 John 1:1-7).

    Then, Mart closed his post with three questions:

    “If he was right, what more is there to look for? Where else to look? How else to love?

    Who else to worship?”

    My mind and heart leaped immediately to Peter’s words recorded in John 6:68-69. So many had turned away from the Light of the world on account of worldly thinking. Yet, Peter held fast to his faith that Messiah Jesus was bringing the Life, Light and Love of God into the very world that was rejecting Him. Nowhere perhaps in the whole Bible is the contrast between worldly thinking and kingdom thinking illustrated than in Peter’s confession of faith compared to Judas Iscariot’s plan to betray Jesus (John 6:70, 71).

    Maru

    51F and partly cloudy here. Forecast to reach 43F tonight. The furnace may turn on in the wee hours, when the PGE rates are lowest! Too warm to stoke the wood stove yet.

  23. SFDBWV says:
    September 15, 2015 at 4:29 am

    We are in agreement and alignment Maru.

    For some reason or another the Gospel of John and the Book of Romans are two “Biblical” Books I enjoy the most.

    Both are comforting.

    37 degrees and falling as daylight is a little far off as yet.

    Steve

  24. oneg2dblu says:
    September 15, 2015 at 7:48 am

    Good day all… I trust my post will not disturb your day, but Maru you are right on, 1 John 1-7 is great, and we can all agree and align with them.

    We can even get the full context, IF, we include the other verses, 8,9,and 10 along with them.

    Again, we can always trim down the word to fit our thinking, seeing only the first two If’s, or we expand even our thinking, by being exposed to the full context, total five If’s, which define those first two even more.

    As now, we seem to lack all the conditional verses which John included to complete those first seven verses.

    Makes one wonder why the bible is so Iffy!

    Just thinking about the full context.

  25. oneg2dblu says:
    September 15, 2015 at 7:51 am

    Then we have the rest of the bible story… to consider.

  26. remarutho says:
    September 15, 2015 at 8:49 am

    Good Morning BTA —

    Let me refer you, Gary, to today’s ODB:

    “When we lose our bearings in life, we can trust our God who gives His trustworthy Word as our compass, using it to lead us into deeper fellowship with Him.” (cf Psalm 119:105-112)

    The heading in my Bible over the passage you reference is “God is Light.” The topic here today is Life Light and Love — something to consider before we take up hammer and tongs.

    1 John chapter 1, verse 8 is a gem: “If we say that have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.” You might wish to live that way.

    But, you also could choose to read on to verse 9: “I we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

    Consider Jeremiah’s prophecy: “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. They will not teach again each man his neighbor and each his brother, saying ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, declares the Lord, for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

    It is bolder to move on, but it gives light life and love. We do need to live by the entire Scripture, not paddling on the surface, but diving below into the depths of our God’s perfect will, it seems to me.

    Blessings all day,
    Maru

  27. remarutho says:
    September 15, 2015 at 9:02 am

    meant to write “If we confess our sins…” Slip of the keyboard.
    Maru

  28. poohpity says:
    September 15, 2015 at 9:42 am

    Science can search and search and search for the source but there are those scientists who know the true Source of all that was, there is and there will be. Science tries as much as they want to hypothesize the source of life but I chuckle that they all come up with differing opinions and have yet to produce any proven facts to form a conclusion that they all can agree on.

    Then when faced with the thought of light without the sun or a manufactured means without the understanding the Source they go back again to another conundrum.

    Then when it comes to the source of love or even what love is how can science prove that. What equation can they come up with to prove love?

    We can find many things to worship but most of them are focused on mankind’s thoughts, theories, understanding but where did mankind come from. The Source does not have to prove His existence but we have life, light and love nevertheless. I may not understand how it all came into being but I do know it took something beyond knowledge alone, it took creativity, organization, wisdom to make everything function as intricately wonderful as it does. To that Source I offer my worship.

  29. joycemb says:
    September 15, 2015 at 9:44 am

    Just thinking along your thoughts Maru that if we FOCUS on Light, life and love then our lives will be lived out in Light; life-giving and loving God and others. I think that’s a good measure of our faith. Jesus came that we may have LIFE, and in abundance!

  30. joycemb says:
    September 15, 2015 at 9:54 am

    Vivien I thought of you when I read Max Lacado’s devotional this morning.

    We all have battles to fight and strongholds to face. How do we fight these? By hiding the Word of God deep in our hearts. Start by memorizing Joshua 1:9: “Have I not commanded you to be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid. Do not be discouraged for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.”

    It’s a great reminder for me also!

  31. jeff1 says:
    September 15, 2015 at 11:54 am

    Perhaps I am just tired of fighting when it doesn’t seem to get me anywhere. I have been strong and courageous in the past but I am discouraged for I expected change that has not come. Who am I fighting, that is what I am not sure of anymore! It seems the battle is just in my head yet when I look around me my Country is in turmoil so the battle is also very real. I think I have had my day of battles and it is time to let the younger ones take them on for I do not seem to have gotten very far for all my struggles!

  32. street says:
    September 15, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    thinking they are looking and not finding because they rejected the very premise of life it’s self. they refuse to turn and say Thank You. the foolish heart does become darker. every once in awhile one will turn.

    i find it interesting the Bible plays out on earth not in space or other planets. He makes all things new. thinking the time is short.

    mart did you really write, “who else to worship?”
    shame on you.
    is there some one else to worship?
    i think not. even sometimes i do.

  33. street says:
    September 15, 2015 at 2:48 pm

    thinking of these battles we fight. david always or most of the time turned to God for help. joshuah learn to do the same thing as moses and abraham.

    i like the idea of an open door in heaven in which i can approach God and bring my cares before him. the hard and difficult part is being aware of His presents here and now. to have Him pass by and not be greeted would be a tragedy of epic consequences. thinking of the disciples question to Jesus about a blind man. they were walking with Jesus, but were not instep with Him.
    be like job fight till you are satisfied with God alone.

  34. oneg2dblu says:
    September 15, 2015 at 2:49 pm

    Shame on you? For what? Asking a question?
    Opening a dialogue, or asking others for their input?
    That is what we do here, we challenge complacency, we get out of our comfort zones, and we exchange thoughts and grow. I hope!
    That is why when I see an “IF,” a conditional word, I understand there is also an, If Not!
    If you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord you will be saved.
    If Not?
    If you love me, you will obey my commands.
    If Not?
    If you deny me before men, I will deny you before my Father in Heaven.
    If Not?
    Just thinking…

  35. oneg2dblu says:
    September 15, 2015 at 2:58 pm

    Do you remember that Christ said to Peter, Do you love Me?
    He did that three times, just like Peter had done with his three denials, as three times Peter had to restate, Yes Lord, You know that I love you.
    Peter was restored, and each time commanded, to Feed My Sheep!
    Mart, uses a different approach here through his asking of us such things, as he is also pressing our buttons, making us think about where we are, or Feeding the Sheep.

  36. oneg2dblu says:
    September 15, 2015 at 3:03 pm

    Maru… Sorry, I do not get your hammer and tongs reference.
    Although I’ve been a carpenter and a cook, and have used both quite effectively.

  37. remarutho says:
    September 15, 2015 at 3:27 pm

    Hi Gary —

    Blacksmiths use tongs to bring the red-hot iron out of the fire to the steel stake for shaping with a hammer. The plannishing process is not noted for its subtlety or gentleness. It will come to you, Brother. :o)

    Best,
    Maru

  38. street says:
    September 15, 2015 at 6:19 pm

    gary said,”Mart, uses a different approach here through his asking of us such things, as he is also pressing our buttons, making us think about where we are, or Feeding the Sheep.”

    who is pressing buttons?

    thinking of one of the temptations in the desert Jesus faced against the devil after baptism. His reply was to worship God and Him alone, there is no other.

    there is a coarse set before us and we are to run in such a way as to not be disqualified.

    gary said,”That is what we do here, we challenge complacency, we get out of our comfort zones, and we exchange thoughts and grow.”

    if you are growing on philosophy and speculation you will starve to death. i have to admit the church grew depth and fruit when confronted with both. the growth was not due to them but in spite of them.

    the church, the pillar and up holder of truth. it is in church we need to ask the hard questions and take a closer look at God’s Word.

  39. joycemb says:
    September 15, 2015 at 7:00 pm

    Street you have really given me some food for thought. Thank you.

  40. oneg2dblu says:
    September 15, 2015 at 7:05 pm

    street… the premise of the question itself, pushes the buttons.
    Do you love Me?
    Ouch!
    Do you love Me??
    Ouch!
    Do you love Me?
    Ouch!

    Who else to worship?

  41. street says:
    September 15, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    gary said,”If you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord you will be saved.
    If Not?
    If you love me, you will obey my commands.
    If Not?
    If you deny me before men, I will deny you before my Father in Heaven.
    If Not?”

    i think if depends on what you put your faith in. some “christians” put there faith in themselves or works.

    i think other “christians” put there faith in the resurrected Christ.

    1Peter 1:3-5
    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

    i remember david showing no mercy to some while calling on the name of the Lord. tough verse. even tougher verse,” away from Me I Never Knew you.”

  42. street says:
    September 15, 2015 at 7:09 pm

    the parable of the builders comes to mind.

  43. oneg2dblu says:
    September 15, 2015 at 7:11 pm

    street… the premise of the question itself, pushes the buttons.
    Do you love Me?
    Ouch!
    Do you love Me??
    Ouch!
    Do you love Me?
    Ouch!

    Who else to worship?

    The bible says that God has put eternity in the hearts of man.

    My Pastor asks, If you die today, where will you spend your eternity?”

    Will it be with God or Separated Forever?

    Those are the type of button pushing questions my Pastor asks his church goers.

    I hope that helps…

  44. oneg2dblu says:
    September 15, 2015 at 7:30 pm

    Maru… being a Blacksmith is a fine trade, however, it is one I do not have any hands on experience with though.

    Now our humanity and our handling of heated discussions, that is another whole world many of us are quite familiar with, even in the church today, with all it’s current denominational differences.
    The early church did not yet have those to contend with, but, we certainly do.

    That is one reason I identify with a non-denominational following, over some of the more rigid, our doctrine or else, followings.

    So strong are they today, that even the Word of God had better not dare to ever challenge them.

    I believe every If in the Word challenges us, for (if)there needs to be an If, there must be an equally weighted, If Not!

    It will come to you as well.
    Gary

  45. oneg2dblu says:
    September 15, 2015 at 7:40 pm

    street… could it also be that some believe “their faith,” must have works, to be alive?
    Even though the Scriptures gives us that Premise, it is a button that many can not stand to have pushed in them, for they choose to believe something else.
    To me, there is always the other side of the If, that pushes us, (if,) our beliefs are not in line with the rest of the story.
    Then, What do we believe?
    Gary

  46. oneg2dblu says:
    September 15, 2015 at 7:49 pm

    Who was it who said, “Faith without works is dead?”
    Was it some modern day Pastor acting in his own interpretation of things, or was it a higher human prompting, or a Divine Inspiration, giving the Apostle Paul a clear message for us all?
    Just thinking…

  47. street says:
    September 15, 2015 at 7:53 pm

    gary said,”street… the premise of the question itself, pushes the buttons.
    Do you love Me?
    Ouch!
    Do you love Me??
    Ouch!
    Do you love Me?
    Ouch!

    why the ouch? what caused the ouch? dose the ouch get better? how is the ouch done away with?

    gary said,”What do we believe?”
    it’s never what we believe, ideas philosophy speculation…,but whom we believe.
    do you remember whom we believed in the garden, it wasn’t God.

  48. remarutho says:
    September 15, 2015 at 8:23 pm

    Good Evening Mart —

    You wrote:

    “In spite of the wealth and diversity of life in and around us, how often do we hear of efforts to replicate—or explain the mystical something that animates a single living cell?”

    Mart’s statement above reminds me, Steve, of one of the New Testament books you say you find comforting…Romans 1:20 — “since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen…”

    When we look at the intricacies and wonders of nature in our world, we are experiencing the Natural Gospel. The Revealed Gospel is necessary, but the creation reflects God’s grace and beauty in itself.

    I also find the Letter to the Romans a comfort in view of the faithless character of the “religion of science,” and in view of mindless repetition of old religious arguments that do not increase belief in or lift up the Name of Jesus.

    Blessed rest this night,
    Maru

  49. joycemb says:
    September 15, 2015 at 8:39 pm

    In light of a national news story recently involving someone’s ‘convictions’ deciding whether they do the job they were elected to do which involves following current law I have been thinking a lot about as you just said Street, “it’s never what we believe, ideas philosophy speculation…,but whom we believe.”

    I think that sometimes emotions get in the way of following Jesus, even good ones.

  50. jeff1 says:
    September 16, 2015 at 3:24 am

    Yes Joyce, I would agree and perhaps that is why Jesus had 12 male disciples because women are much more emotional then men, I believe.

  51. SFDBWV says:
    September 16, 2015 at 5:21 am

    Too many years ago to count I used to get the Clarksburg, WV newspaper for a reason I don’t even remember as Clarksburg is a two hour drive west of us. Anyway I do wish I had kept one particular paper as when we had our first pictures of the surface of Mars ever, the headlines proclaimed “Vegetation on the surface of Mars.”

    It showed a blurry grainy picture of a view of the surface of Mars and what looked like a desert scene of scrub brush and tumbleweed strewn everywhere.

    However once the pictures were cleared up and focused in, the “vegetation” turned out to be just rocks strewn about a barren and lifeless plain.

    For anyone of us who has ever been in a very dark place, albeit a Movie Theater or bar or in my particular case a coal mine, and upon exiting into the sunlight you are momentarily blinded by the brilliant sunlight.

    When I look at how dark a “place” Paul was in *religiously* it is no small wonder that when he seen the “light” he was blinded by *Jesus’* brilliance.

    It is written in Scripture that man cannot deny the existence of God because of the evidence of nature.

    True to the nature of mankind it isn’t so much that he denies the existence of God, but tries to define God in terms he is comfortable with.

    Thank you Maru for reminding me of how comforting observing nature can be as it has always been one of my pleasures to enjoy and as I look backward over my life one of the opportunities I have had to appreciate and worship God in an uncomplicated and more pure venue.

    Even in the dark sky above me it is the little specks of light that paint such a beautiful view and one that brings my heart and soul closer to God, as it can be felt.

    I don’t want to get too long with my comment, but a long time ago I seen a movie about a sudden and undeniable radio communication broadcasting from “Mars”. The problem was that the sporadic broadcasts came in the form of quoting Scripture.

    As you can imagine it had quite an impact on the people of earth.

    I am certain as mankind continues to seek out something other than God the Creator by any other means than through knowing The Creator Jesus of Nazareth he will continue to waste time, energy, and money and remain groping in the dark.

    Why do we look for more? Because as it is said you can fix ignorant, but you can’t fix stupid.

    A balmy 39 degrees this morning…

    Steve

  52. oneg2dblu says:
    September 16, 2015 at 7:08 am

    I wonder if all scientific exploration, that looks for more, is fixing only our ignorance, but not fixing our stupid.

    As we learn more about the Universe, the World, and the Inner Workings of the Human Body, are we still considered to be stuck on stupid, in our search to find out more?

    Or, are we saying, once you’ve found Jesus, all other pursuit of man, is in vain?

    Or, all other pursuit of Nature/Creation/or God, or the Scriptures, other than what we think we know, is in vain?

    Are we not to always to be searching ourselves, even after finding Jesus?

    Are we not always to be in the word/prayer, or are we still in need of another fix, still ignorant/stupid?

    The worldly mindset, the natural way of man, the enemy of God, certainly thinks all Christians, are like the lady who will not do her worldly job, which she finds to now be in conflict with her strongly held Christian Beliefs, making her, both ignorant, and stupid.

    I guess it all depends on which side of the P C World, the Emerging Church, the God of Nature, or Interpretation of the Scriptures you choose to align with.

    Like all things human, which we all are, there can be error.

    Just thinking…
    Gary

  53. oneg2dblu says:
    September 16, 2015 at 7:20 am

    street… We were never in the garden.

    It was only, Adam, Eve, God, and Satan who were there, if I remember correctly.

    I believe you were asking that question, to only push the ouch button, and in doing so, you’ve answered you own thoughts…
    “why the ouch? what caused the ouch? dose the ouch get better? how is the ouch done away with?”

    Thanks for asking,
    Gary

  54. oneg2dblu says:
    September 16, 2015 at 7:31 am

    street…
    The Garden= the World.
    The Adam and Eve= Humanity.
    Satan=Temptation/Evil.
    God= Creator of all that exists.

    Now, has that answered or prolonged your search/questions?

    Just thinking…

  55. jeff1 says:
    September 16, 2015 at 8:57 am

    What men define has stupid is not necessarily what God does. Scientists and the like are highly intelligent men and many must know God more than they believe for it is God working in them that makes them who they are even if they are not aware or willing to admit that! The Bible shows us how God works in all types of people for His aim is to build not tear down. God is an intelligent God and does not necessarily need intelligent people to know He is using them, to use them but likewise He is not so arrogant that He would not use a stupid person for His service as well. Men will likely make fun of a stupid person, I have seen it too often in my lifetime and often been the recipient but thankfully God sees us differently than we often see ourselves or others see us and that is why I worship God and not men for He treats the lessor in life equally with the more privileged in life for He uses them all for the advancement of His Kingdom without prejudice.

  56. joycemb says:
    September 16, 2015 at 9:23 am

    Agree Viv that God uses us it seems in spite of ourselves for the advancement of His kingdom. The question I have to ask myself every morning is am I going to walk in the Spirit today or in the flesh? We have dual citizenship it seems, being citizens of a heavenly Kingdom and an earthly one at the same time. Yet God promises that we can overcome anything because He already has. I now look at my old battles, scars, wounds- both physical and mental and say, Wow a God! Look what You’ve brought me through! Thank You for every difficulty and for those to come as they serve to break my stubborn will/mindset and lead me to the still waters of Your peace on earth, as it is in heaven. Yes despite our difficulties- and yours are some I can’t even begin to imagine living through but only by Gods’ grace- because of our dual citizenship we are more than conquerors through Christ Jesus.

    When I have had enemies to deal with and I’ve had plenty I asked God to help me forgive and He has. Then to just leave them for God to change, they are His problem and I am too little to deal with His problems. I am not a God.

  57. joycemb says:
    September 16, 2015 at 9:26 am

    Sorry, meant I am not God.

  58. SFDBWV says:
    September 16, 2015 at 9:27 am

    Oh my O my…

    An ignorant person can be taught.
    A stupid persons knows better, but refuses to learn.

    Time for my little prayer for myself.

    “O Lord give me strength, but do not make me hard hearted, thank you, Amen.”

    I apologize to have offended any; my intent was to educate not agitate.

    Steve

  59. joycemb says:
    September 16, 2015 at 10:02 am

    Steve maybe it was the Holy Spirit that caused anyone to feel offended? If so then they need to take it up with God :-)

  60. poohpity says:
    September 16, 2015 at 10:28 am

    If we recognize the true source from which all things come, “Life, Light and Love” we will seek that source rather than our worldly wisdom.

    Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the “meekness” of wisdom. But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth. This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice. But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.(James 3:13-18)

    Seeking to know the Source rather than wanting to be the source.

  61. SFDBWV says:
    September 16, 2015 at 10:31 am

    Only have about 5 minutes, but wanted to say since light exposes, I find it encouraging that Russia in making a move into Syria as we are told that Magog is drawn into the events of Armageddon; in fact they are “hooked” and drawn into the matter as a matter of the will of God.

    Ashamedly I also can say that American politics is at an all-time low as we sail off into the sunset.

    Matt is up to his bike now for a 30 minute ride; 14 miles (in 30 min.) is now his best effort, today he will settle for 12.9 miles ( in 30 min.) as all he wants to accomplish.

    Steve

  62. foreverblessed says:
    September 16, 2015 at 10:37 am

    Joyce was writing:
    ” Yet God promises that we can overcome anything because He already has.” 9.23 am

    I was thinking about that a few days ago, when I read God at eventide Sep 13

    “Cause Of Sin

    No longer has sin any power over you unless of your own deliberate choice.

    The surest way to safeguard yourself against any temptation to sin is to learn to love to do My Will, and to love to have that Will done in all the little as well as in all the big things in your daily life.

    So often man puzzles over this — if I have conquered sin, why is it then so powerful an enemy?

    I conquered sin.

    It has no power over any soul that does not want to sin. Then all that could lead to sin is desire.

    I lay such stress on man’s loving Me. If his love, his desire, is set on Me — he wills only to do My Will. Thus he is saved from sin.”

  63. foreverblessed says:
    September 16, 2015 at 10:49 am

    The topic is Life Light Love

    Jesus is the Light of the World.
    “In Him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness but the darkness has not understood it” John 1:4-5
    I thought that the verse said the darkness did not love the light, but it says, it understood it not.
    We can pray that people we come in contact with may understand that Light, and how vital it is for everlasting life.

    But we are not of the darkness. If we Love that Light, we are no longer slave to sin, we are freed from it.
    And above all, the Life that streams from that Light, will fill us, and give us power to live now, in the Kingdom reality. The Spiritual reality.

    The furthering of the Kingdom is also us praying and interceding for others around us. If we have hope for them that we love, and we have faith in God that it is within His will, then we can pray that prayer for those we want to intercede for. And there the Kingdom advances. What a great reality we already have!

    Pray for that Light to shine in more people

  64. jeff1 says:
    September 16, 2015 at 11:33 am

    Steve, in the English dictionary the word stupid means ignorant. Today in our schools it is forbidden to call a child stupid and rightfully so for as a child who was told repeatedly that I was stupid by certain teachers I became to believe that I was. A teacher has a responsibility to build a child’s confidence and referring to someone as stupid is a very derogative term and not one that should be used. What we learn as a child we carry into our adulthood. If I believe I am stupid it is because that is what I learned as a child. I do not refuse to learn its just that I now discern whom I learn from and teachers who call a child stupid I would not want to learn from. If you are referring to my hard heart, yes there are days I am ashamed to say that it is but at least I am aware of my hard heart and believe that one day God will make it soft again. I actually was a soft hearted person at one time, but living daily with violence and hatred made me the monster that I am. I wish I could say Joyce that I am like you but you are a much nicer person for you have a forgiven heart while mine is as Steve suggested very much unforgiven towards my enemies. I cannot lie about it for God know it to be so, you cannot hide something like that from God!

  65. joycemb says:
    September 16, 2015 at 12:05 pm

    Viv God can help you learn how to forgive, it’s not a one-time event for some. For me it has been a life-long process. But I could not have done it without His help.

    For we do not have a God that is far off, but one that is very near to the broken hearted.

    Your heart was once broken by what others have done, God is very near you as you know dear cousin Viv. (My grandfather was Irish)

  66. phpatato says:
    September 16, 2015 at 12:46 pm

    Steve…..” I find it encouraging that Russia in making a move into Syria as we are told that Magog is drawn into the events of Armageddon;”…..

    It is imperative that we keep our lamps full and our wicks trimmed, for the Day of the Lord is at hand. I find myself looking at the clouds more and more. I am also, much more often it seems with much more urgency, saying prayers for my unsaved family. I don’t know how it is possible to be happy and sad at the same time, but that is how I am feeling. I find it unsettling some days.

    Have a blessed day everyone

    Pat

  67. street says:
    September 16, 2015 at 12:57 pm

    gary said,”street… We were never in the garden.”

    if we were not in the garden then we are not is Christ either.

  68. jeff1 says:
    September 16, 2015 at 1:01 pm

    Why is it Joyce that there are days I feel He is so near and I am so sure of Him and other days He is so far away it is like He is like a complete stranger. The moments that I know God I know Him completely yet there are moments when equally He is so distant. I do not want to hate Joyce it is not who I was but it is who I am now, I am changed. I now understand my enemies, I now understand their hatred, I now feel closer to my enemies than my friends for I know understand how they got to hate! God works in mysterious ways!

  69. joycemb says:
    September 16, 2015 at 1:35 pm

    Viv we don’t learn to trust when on the mountain top. It is in the valleys that we discover just how really faithful God is. It’s mystical, magical, and mysterious. I too have many times felt God has deserted me, but at those times I go back to what scripture says, “I will never leave you or forsake you” and just simply BELIEVE IT! If I still have a hard time believing I pray “Lord I believe, but Lord, help my unbelief”
    God ALWAYS answers a heartfelt prayer.

    And now that you are able to understand your enemies, you have knowledge into how to pray for them, and yourself. When we feel the pain of others, as Jesus did, we have great insight into the heart of God for His fallen children.

  70. oneg2dblu says:
    September 16, 2015 at 2:33 pm

    Lean not on your own understanding, is very good advice when you are in the valley of life. The other thing to remember is that no one stays in the valley or on the mountaintop, as life is always changing our position and perspective. Today we may fly, tomorrow we may have to crawl, as each day has its own unexpected course.
    If our compass is Christ, we will never be lost, but will always by faith, be heading in the right direction.

  71. street says:
    September 16, 2015 at 2:41 pm

    gary said,”street… could it also be that some believe “their faith,” must have works, to be alive?”

    it seems to me gary that this works you speak about is a hot button only in the fact when you make yourself a judge to say what constitutes works. could the work be in you and on you? we do know fruit is the last thing to mature in plants, is it the same with people?

    it seems to me the devil would like nothing better to do then set up a board or panel of works judges within the church. isn’t there a verse about doing the Word vs. judging it? i remind you judges hear cases. seems to me we are defeated already on this road. could this be sniping by the devil? hold on to what you have you can not hold on to what you don’t have.

  72. street says:
    September 16, 2015 at 2:54 pm

    jeff said,”Yes Joyce, I would agree and perhaps that is why Jesus had 12 male disciples because women are much more emotional then men, I believe.”

    there were many women who followed Jesus in His ministry and supported Him, they continued with the disciples.

    it had to do with God’s Sovereign choice.

  73. joycemb says:
    September 16, 2015 at 3:55 pm

    Street thanks for addressing the issue of male disciples.

    Street said: it seems to me the devil would like nothing better to do then set up a board or panel of works judges within the church.

    I actually belonged to a church that did give prizes for who memorized the most scripture and witnessed to the most people during the week. It was shameing, grueling, exhausting, and the gospel was lost.

  74. oneg2dblu says:
    September 16, 2015 at 7:12 pm

    street… I was quoting Paul’s words, not asking the church to set up a panel or hold court on which works that must co-inside with faith being alive.
    Or whether the fruit comes first or last, that is another chicken or the egg controversy, you can have with someone else, for we will never resolve it here.

    Johnny Appleseed to my memory was throwing seeds, which came from fruit to make trees grow, so, without fruit first, where does the seed come from?

    You see, wee never resolve anything, debating those things.
    Gary

  75. street says:
    September 16, 2015 at 8:14 pm

    gary i think you are talking about James not Paul. then again it is irrelevant since it was God Who wrote it.

    for martin luther to call the book of James straw it sure causes a lot of tension in the world.

    abide in faith
    abide in hope
    abide in love.

    all these are in Christ.

  76. street says:
    September 16, 2015 at 8:29 pm

    gary the parable of the sower and the parable of the wheat and tares are the basis of understanding all the other parables and teachings of Christ.

    it ends with Jesus question to the pharisees, “the baptism of John, was is of man or was it of God?”

    the answer determines outcome not works.
    and the correct answer is a work of God.

    let me put it a different way. i read about bit and bridle and that horses will not come near or would not obey and be trained with out it. i prayed for God to give me bit and bridle because i would never come near with out it. it is later i discovered that the bit and bridle were His Love. i have to say the training is not over. i am more like wretch than a saint.

  77. SFDBWV says:
    September 17, 2015 at 4:50 am

    Admittedly I have done many stupid things across my life and amazing as it is sometimes I repeat them thinking the outcome may be different this time.

    When I looked in to the comments I could actually hear the music from the old TV show “Twilight Zone” and hear Rod Sterling saying Steve has entered another dimension.

    My life is so very busy and time for myself nearly nonexistent, so rather than cause anyone any distress or step on any toes I think today I will take my lamp and seek rest from this place.

    43 degrees.

    Steve

  78. remarutho says:
    September 17, 2015 at 5:14 am

    Dear BTA Friends —

    Please prayerfully read the Scripture —

    Paul wrote:

    “Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, ‘He who practices them shall live by them.’ Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree’ — in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”

    James wrote:

    “Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
    But someone may well say, ‘You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.’ You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.”

    It seems to me, Gary, quoting Paul or quoting James — both are worthwhile — please quote from an open Bible. Then, we who read your post will not have to cringe for your sake.

    Am saying this even realizing my plea is a waste of time with you, Brother. Read the Scriptures.

    Yours in Christ,
    Maru

  79. remarutho says:
    September 17, 2015 at 5:24 am

    My sincere regrets to those who do not find Light Life and Love in my post! God is good all the time. Maru

  80. jeff1 says:
    September 17, 2015 at 5:29 am

    Steve,it is I who am over sensitive about the word stupid because as a child teachers called it to me so often. Its just one of those words that I hate to hear people use in any shape or form because of the overuse to myself when I was a child. Even today I find it difficult to not think I am much denser than others while others tell me it is in my head for I am not as dense as I believe hence why I do not like to see it used especially to children. I over reacted to you using it in the context that you did Steve and I apologize for feeling offended but my reaction was what it was I did not take time to read your post to get what you where actually saying. Again I apologise and please know that there is no animosity held.

  81. poohpity says:
    September 17, 2015 at 7:11 am

    Wouldn’t it be nice and kind to refrain from using derogatory adjectives to describe ourselves or anyone else. Rather looking for the dirt we looked for the gold in ourselves and others. God seems to look for the gold because of His love even knowing the dirt found in all humanity but that takes the help of someone very special the Holy Spirit and with that help also comes the ability to treat others as we would like to be treated and how God treated us.

  82. poohpity says:
    September 17, 2015 at 7:17 am

    Once we have found and cling to the Source all kinds of things change in us because it is only God that brings about true change when we rely on Him. We begin to realize we will never be perfect and therefore will stop expecting others to be and depend more on the Source.

  83. tracey5tgbtg says:
    September 17, 2015 at 7:21 am

    street – appreciated your comment of Sep 16 at 2:41 pm. Especially the part about fruit being the last to mature, so true.

    Maru – thank you, yes there is light, life and love in your posts. Especially thankful for scripture quotes, we can’t get enough of the words in the Bible. We should read them prayerfully, as you say, and not take them for granted.

    jeff1 – I have to agree that stupid is just an insult. In fact, I can hardly type the word. My mother was a pretty lax parent, but one thing she was emphatic about was that she didn’t want us to even say that word. She said it was a bad word. I have always felt that it means “I don’t like what you are saying or doing, therefore you must be…”

    However, I don’t think Steve meant to be insulting. I think it is a cultural thing and to some people it has different levels of meaning.

    Steve – I don’t think you ever mean to hurt anyone’s feelings. I also don’t think you should accuse yourself of doing stupid things. Just some things you would do differently looking back in hindsight, as would I, as would we all.

  84. oneg2dblu says:
    September 17, 2015 at 8:09 am

    To All.. sorry I miss quoted or used the wrong Apostle name, to associate works as proof of a faith that is alive, verse faith without works which is dead.

    About the Sower, The sower was sowing seed, just like Johnny Appleseed, not fruit.
    It is seed received by hearing, that produces faith, not fruit, according to the word.

    And not all seed that springs to life produces fruit, but only that which is received by good ground, has a good root, accepts pruning when necessary, that actually produces the this fruit, with the hundred fold accounting.

    So, to me, faith alone, is faith alone.

    Faith that produces fruit, however, is faith that has a good root, stands in time of testing, accepts pruning, is watered by others, and stays attached to the vine, Until the
    End, according to the word of God.

    In fact, there are so many other things that get in the way, according to the word, that only one in four of the seeds that spring up, actually make it to producing lasting fruit.

    But, I may be wrong…

  85. poohpity says:
    September 17, 2015 at 8:24 am

    Faith is a gift from God(the Source). The Fruit that is produced in a believers life is from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit(the Source) faith does not produce fruit. If one believes, trusts and depends in/on God then they will do good which is the works of our faith. People are very precious to God that seems to be why He has gone to such great lengths to show that love by leaving His glorious kingdom to come to earth to show us the way, the truth and the life.

    So possibly what you wrote Gary is wrong and is not according to the Word of God but the word of Gary.

  86. poohpity says:
    September 17, 2015 at 8:43 am

    Gary, it seems my friend that most of what you write puts man in the place of God. God is the gardener He waters, fertilizes, prunes and nurtures His branches that are connected to Him. He is also the Vine as well as the Root without Him nothing happens that looks like Him without Him. Man has tried for thousands of years to be the object of worship by their acts, behaviors but it is all but ashes or filthy rags and if one knows God then they know that to be true. ALL Honor and Glory belong to God who is the Source of that is and will be. Our worship is not focused on our abilities(works) it is focused on the Source, God! But if one does not have faith then they will think it is about their works.

  87. poohpity says:
    September 17, 2015 at 8:50 am

    Gary, maybe a little closer look at the letter of James with God’s help you may able to understand the faith and works thing. It just so happens that Discover the Word this week is having a study on it. Hope that will help.

  88. joycemb says:
    September 17, 2015 at 10:24 am

    Good day folks,
    Enjoying probably our last week of temps in the 80’s for a long time. Another part rusted off my 2002, gas tank bracket! Oops. Got to get that fixed soon. Road salt is the blessing and curse of living in snow country. Life is hard but God is good, all the time!

    Light, life and love to all!
    Joyce

  89. jeff1 says:
    September 17, 2015 at 11:48 am

    Joyce, you said in a previous post that now I understand my enemies I can pray for them. It is not that I understand them I understand what hate is now which I never did before. Hate destroys my relationship with God like it destroys their relationship with God now in the present but not for ever. I am not one to hold a grudge for ever it is only when I hear that they are still continuing with violent acts that I get angry but it does not last for God gives me peace in time from it because I invite it into my heart. It is them who has to invite God into their heart for Him to change theirs and this war is going on a long time without a change of heart, prayer works if it is God’s will but surely I have to assume it is not God’s will when so many Churches in this Country have been praying for a change of heart in men but it is still not forthcoming! I do not want to see another war for I do not believe I could face another war, even knowing God is with me I am just too tired to fight anymore!

  90. street says:
    September 17, 2015 at 12:05 pm

    poo said,” Rather looking for the dirt we looked for the gold in ourselves and others. God seems to look for the gold because of His love…”

    dear poo, there is no gold in man. we are made from dirt or nothing. then God breathed His life into us. the creature, man, was given the opportunity to receive something of true value, God’s Word. we receive all kinds of words and ideas because of the fall. one thing you can count on is testing and refining. what is He testing and refining? is it not His Word that we claim to know and obey? we find a lot about ourselves and Him in this process and it is not complete, not yet anyway. i think the denying self and taking up our cross daily and following Jesus is like a piece of fruit dying and the seed bringing new life. remember Jesus said,”
    Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.”

  91. joycemb says:
    September 17, 2015 at 12:32 pm

    Hi Viv, although I haven’t gone through what you have and really can’t understand your struggles, as you can’t mine, one thing I do know is that God is the same no matter what the human condition/situation and He is good and real and by focusing on Him as much as is possible it makes life more bearable. I know you know this also.
    I am so thankful that you know Him and his son, Jesus Christ. As do I.
    (I pray you don’t have to fight any more wars either)
    Blessings, Joyce

  92. street says:
    September 17, 2015 at 12:34 pm

    gary said,”It is seed received by hearing, that produces faith, not fruit, according to the word.”

    dear gary i remind you there are wheat and tares being sown. tares will be burned. we can hear many voices and they all lead to the same place, broad road. there is a voice, a single voice, and His sheep recognize it. remember they will not follow when they hear a strangers voice?

    side note, i have played the devils advocate most of my life. it is getting old. and i beginning to understand it is quite dangerous for myself and others. we live in dreadfully wicked and perverse culture, has there been any other?, but this is where He has placed us, for such a time as here and now. run forest run. humility gives the best seat.

  93. street says:
    September 17, 2015 at 12:40 pm

    2 Corinthians 9:9-11 “He scattered abroad, he gave to the poor,
    His righteousness endures forever.”

    10 Now He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness; 11 you will be enriched in everything for all liberality, which through us is producing thanksgiving to God.

  94. joycemb says:
    September 17, 2015 at 12:52 pm

    Viv when I was about 38 and starting to go through memory-recall healing -which was horrific enough- my mother called to tell me my father had loaded up his guns and was heading to my house to kill me because I had “talked” about the abuse I’d suffered to counselors and friends. I called my counselor and I will never forget what he said, “I don’t think God will put you through that abuse again”. So we prayed and I called my pastor, and was ready to let the cops know what his vehicle looked like and his intentions. The next thing I heard was my mother calling me back to say dad had suddenly turned around about 200 miles into the trip and came back home. (They were then living about 1,000 miles away which I was so thankful!)

    The reason I am telling this story is because I trusted and believed God that His healing and restoration were real. I faithfully prayed for them, and before they died they both, along with my 4 siblings had accepted Christs’ atonement for their sins. They were changed and for that I am so grateful. It didn’t change my past, but made for a much more hopeful future. If God, in His great amazing love could change a broken/damaged heart like mine and my abusers, well, what more can I say? I keep looking up and forward to a new world, a heavenly kingdom where there are no tears, anxieties, abuse, only love. And I know it’s coming and is here already.
    Joyce

  95. street says:
    September 17, 2015 at 2:46 pm

    thinking about violence and war. to say the spirit has no effect on the world is a lie. the battle is real and spiritual. deception lying coveting …the list goes on. God is light and in Him is no darkness. remember pilot asking what is truth at the trial? we have nothing to go on, in and of, ourselves. God’s Word changes everything. we see it played out before our eyes every day.
    watch with Him
    wait with Him
    walk with Him.

    God strengthen you and comfort you, and never forget His Great Love for you.

  96. oneg2dblu says:
    September 17, 2015 at 3:13 pm

    pooh… so glad to hear from you.

    Yes, maybe if I get a closer look at James I will find exactly what “he” was referring to about the relationship between works and faith, because I obviously have it all wrong.

    Or maybe I alone, like faith alone, misspoke again.

    To All others…

    I am apparently stuck on stupid with thinking that the story of the sower, was Christ telling us, that most of the seed that initially did spring to life, also lost its life and never produced any fruit.

    street… yes, there is another story, the wheat and tares, about a sower that says, if a seed does not fall to the ground and die… but that is another story, my friend.

    Have a great rest in Christ.
    Gary

  97. joycemb says:
    September 17, 2015 at 3:36 pm

    Here’s another way to look at law:

    If you are led by the Holy Spirit, you are not under the law.
    That is our freedom–not a freedom to do evil, but a freedom to love.

    Our motivation to do service for Jesus is love, the most powerful motivator in the world.

    It works even when fear does not.

    Derek Prince

  98. joycemb says:
    September 17, 2015 at 3:41 pm

    Gary I think you need to feel enslaved. I know that feeling as I used to feel the same way. Freedom is hard to take. Check it out!

  99. jeff1 says:
    September 17, 2015 at 4:09 pm

    What you are saying Joyce about looking up and forward to a new world. I find that I can just take a day at a time. I cannot think too much for that is what made me sick many years ago. I trust God ultimately that all will be well but I cannot try to understand what He is doing in my life but just enjoy the peace that I have now in knowing He cares. Thank you for telling me your story it is very encouraging to hear how God has worked in you and your families life and on my better days I know too that He is working in mine and my families life. Thank you for sharing your faith for it gives me hope for growth in mine.

  100. joycemb says:
    September 17, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    Viv I don’t believe thinking about heaven and a future without pain will make you sicker. Sometimes it takes really trying to decide what to think about. I think you can help yourself somewhat by thinking about your heavenly future, if only for 3 seconds at a time. It would be a great spiritual discipline to work on and maybe you can increase the time or times the next day?

  101. joycemb says:
    September 17, 2015 at 4:31 pm

    Or find a hymn that talks about our future home and listen to that! Music works wonders for me :-)

  102. poohpity says:
    September 17, 2015 at 5:10 pm

    Gary, I don’t know if it was really wrong or just not knowing yet.

    dear street, the God I know sees gold in us beneath the dirt. To me we are precious to Him precious enough to lay down His Deity and humble Himself to death on the Cross. He would not do that if we were not of much worth to Him. So you believe what you want. I go with what I know.;-)

  103. oneg2dblu says:
    September 17, 2015 at 5:20 pm

    pooh… what a loving way to say, you are not stupid, just ignorant.
    I feel blessed already.

  104. jeff1 says:
    September 17, 2015 at 5:30 pm

    I do not have much of an imagination when it comes to what heaven will be like, I was telling my friend how I can see myself sitting on a cloud with wings and she thought it very funny. I had seen it on an advertisement and now this how I envisage it. There is a gospel song which Elvis sings and I love listening to it. It goes like this:

    I’m satisfied with just a cottage below
    A little silver and a little gold
    But in that city where the ransomed will shine
    I want a gold one that’s silver lined

    I’ve got at mansion just over the hilltop
    In that bright land where we will never grow old
    And some day yonder we will never more wander
    But walk on streets that are purest gold

    Don’t think me poor or deserted or lonely
    I’m not discouraged I’m heaven bound
    I’m but a pilgrim in search of the city
    I want a mansion, a harp, and a crown

    I’ve got a mansion just over the hilltop
    In that bright land where we’ll never grow old
    And some day yonder we will ever more wander
    But walk on streets that are purest gold

    I will try doing what you say and my medication does help me not think anxious thoughts too.

  105. oneg2dblu says:
    September 17, 2015 at 5:31 pm

    joyce… I need to recognize I am free to be obedient, not under the desire to sin anymore, or be disobedient.
    My greatest freedom was finding 1 Corinthians 10:13 to be true.
    No longer am I the compulsion to sin.
    Where I was helpless at one time, through ignorance or stupidity, today, I’m enlightened to know I have a Helper to guide me, and to correct my wrong steps when not listening as I should, to his Still Small Voice.
    If the is slavery, then so be it!
    I am a slave to wanting to obey that voice.
    So, yes I need to be enslaved.
    As some one more learned than myself once said, If you sin, you are a slave to sin.
    If however, you walk in the Spirit, a slave to that Spirit.
    Or something quite close to it.
    Every slave needs a Master, and you can only serve one master at a time.
    Also by someone more learned than myself.
    Gary

  106. oneg2dblu says:
    September 17, 2015 at 5:33 pm

    No longer am I under the compulsion to sin.
    Sorry this mouse is quicker than I am and eats entire words when it is hungry. :0

  107. poohpity says:
    September 17, 2015 at 5:36 pm

    There is nothing wrong with ignorance that just means someone does not know something yet but is able to learn. Stupid has more to do with an inability to learn or use common sense. So you determine which word fits you better, I was leaning more to the not knowing yet.

  108. joycemb says:
    September 17, 2015 at 5:55 pm

    Gary I think it’s just how you look at our walk with Christ. You seem to focus on sin, whereas others focus on the life. I prefer to focus on Life as it takes the focus off of me and puts it on Christ, where it should be. Yes the Holy Spirit convicts when I’m headed off in the wrong direction, that’s part of the package, but it’s not the whole package. There’s more to walking in the Spirit than being held accountable every step of the way. It think that’s what the topic of this blog is about. Freedom in Christ! Life in the Spirit! Free to live apart from sin and free to love without constraint.

  109. joycemb says:
    September 17, 2015 at 6:04 pm

    Father I pray you will help us all here to see you more clearly and to be brave to move on in our spiritual growth. Because of Jesus.

  110. oneg2dblu says:
    September 17, 2015 at 6:43 pm

    joyce… are you saying that anyone who sees sin, in the world, in others, in my brothers and sisters, like me, walks in darkness, and only those who focus on life, like you, walk in the light?

  111. oneg2dblu says:
    September 17, 2015 at 7:04 pm

    Tell me how you see this message in James 5:19,20 NIV “My brothers, if anyone of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, remember this; Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.”

    James is writing to his brothers in Christ, (those who are already saved,) so if one can never fall away after being saved, as taught by the Eternal Security teachers today, then James is the ignorant one here, and talking stupidly about a brother who was saved and has wandered away, and according to his words, was also clearly headed for death.

    So, if James focused only on life, he would not have been able to teach others to look out for a brothers sin, and turn a brother around, even after initial salvation.

    But, if you believe otherwise, then, you can not believe James was speaking the truth.

    Why would James lie, and why would those verses be in the Word of God, if they are not founded on the truth?

    Tell me and James we’ve got it all wrong if we see sin in a brother,and then actually get involved in bringing him back into the light and the life, because we are then focusing on the wrong things?

    I think not…

  112. joycemb says:
    September 17, 2015 at 7:19 pm

    Yes Gary I agree with James and have been obedient to help a sister out when she is headed in the wrong direction, but what I’m talking about is the overall spirit of our faith walk. If I come off as a God-cop to those around me, Christian and non-Christian alike it gets lonely. Not saying you are, Gary, but I would like to see you actually enjoying your walk more. I know you will say you are very happy and content with your walk with Christ, and who am I to judge. I just think (my opinion here) that you seem to be majoring on one of the minors or mechanics of the faith. Not that anything in the Bible is minor, I don’t mean that. It just seems like you are stuck.

    Sorry, I know I’m not coming off the way I’d like and what I’m saying is surely up for correction and even defensiveness but I hope not.

    Seeing sin in a sister is not something that happens often for me. Perhaps if I worked in a Christian rehab that would be part of my job description for sure. Maybe that is part of your ministry, I don’t know. Then it would make sense that sin would be your focus as addicts are surely enslaved by sin.

    Oh boy I’m getting way out of hand here, I best be quiet. But this is my thinking at the moment anyway.

  113. oneg2dblu says:
    September 17, 2015 at 7:22 pm

    James 2:14 NIV “What good is it brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds?”
    Verse 17, “In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
    Verse 22, “You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.”
    Verse 24, “You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

    Verse 26, “As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead.”

    Any questions?

    As pooh says, stupidity has more to do with an inability to learn.

    I think we all have a chance to learn here, don’t we?
    Gary

  114. bubbles says:
    September 17, 2015 at 7:29 pm

    Oh, my, my, my. Speaking of stupid, I make stupid mistakes every day, and do stupid things! Haha. You have to laugh and move on. I almost fell over a bar stool this afternoon. Then I lost keys three times, lost a book, and lost a favorite necklace. I make copies and lose them. I try to be very organized but the stupid keeps coming out of me! Whew.
    I fell down in March and then fell again two weeks later. That was stupid.

  115. oneg2dblu says:
    September 17, 2015 at 7:32 pm

    Joyce… you are not out of line, you are actually defining, why I am who I am, why directed to do as I do here, and calling it as it is, a ministry.
    Some would say, menace, but the wiser… who know that God can use even a donkey, could also use a menace.
    You see, the entire world does not want to hear the truth that is found in the Word of God, written there, For a Reason.
    Even the foolish things, the not so likable parts, they are all useful to God, according to His Word.
    Gary

  116. joycemb says:
    September 17, 2015 at 7:37 pm

    Sure Gary you have a special calling/ministry here. I see. Well, minister on! It’s a free blog I guess.

    Bubbles sounds like you had an interesting day. Hope you are not too bruised up and harried!

  117. oneg2dblu says:
    September 17, 2015 at 7:38 pm

    Not so much as addicts, but claiming salvation and still living as slaves to sin, then, yes.

    Has anyone here ever done a word search to see how many times God has focused on sin in His Word?

    Just wondering….

  118. joycemb says:
    September 17, 2015 at 7:40 pm

    Gary do you believe that you only have the Truth here? Is that why you are called to minister? Just wondering.

  119. remarutho says:
    September 17, 2015 at 7:54 pm

    Good Evening BTA Friends —

    Mart when you said, “One of Jesus’ close friends believed that he had found the Source of everlasting life… spiritual light… and perfect love,” I immediately thought of the Apostle John.

    Surely the New Covenant brings in the freedom that was lacking in the life of God’s people before Messiah came to cleanse, deliver and save us.

    The Apostle James reminds us of this just a few verses before his riff on works being the sign of faith:

    James writes:

    “So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.”

    It seems to me the old proverb (not Biblical) — “See that your words are sweet and tender, for you may have to eat them later,” applies to being a “righteousness cop.” Back to the hammer and tongs, Gary.

    Maru

  120. poohpity says:
    September 17, 2015 at 8:33 pm

    Maru, don’t you feel that the problem may be in a failure to trust God’s abilities since the bible says, which I totally believe, that it is the Holy Spirit that convicts the world of sin? At least that is what Jesus taught in John 16:8-9 8″And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me(Jesus); so it all comes down to ignorance of knowing and believing in God, what He says, what His abilities are. So in all actuality it is a failure of faith or having no faith in God at all.

  121. Regina says:
    September 17, 2015 at 10:08 pm

    Good Evening, All
    Pray all is well in your lives. Off topic here… I’ve been reading previous BTA blogs, and I’m always blessed by the wisdom and insight shared by all.

    Steve, thank you for your prayers re: my situation (divorce process)…

    89 degrees and a warm night in my neck of the woods…

    Love to all,
    Regina

  122. cbrown says:
    September 17, 2015 at 11:37 pm

    13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

    4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

    8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

    13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

  123. remarutho says:
    September 18, 2015 at 1:51 am

    Well Pooh, there does seem to be some resistance somewhere in the Jesus-follower who believes that answers and teaching come out of a human source, even oneself!

    The bottom line on the Source of Light Life and Love is that the Law is fulfilled in Him, Jesus — we do not have the task of correcting, but of encouraging. The Apostle James writes:

    “Do not speak against one another, brethren. He who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge of it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you who judge your neighbor?
    James 4:11-12
    Guess I would call this a trust issue. James faithfully reminds us to “Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.” (James 4:7-8a)

    Blessed rest all night,
    Maru

  124. jeff1 says:
    September 18, 2015 at 4:51 am

    For me I believe it is a trust issue for when I am trusting God I am at peace, it is when I look at the world in chaos and wonder what God is doing that I doubt God and there is confusion in me. I then do what God said and focus on Christ. For how God is working in the world is what creates by doubts so focusing on Christ and that God sent Him to save us from sin but in my case not just from sin but from myself. When I am honest with myself I know I try but equally I know I fail to meet God’s standard except for my faith in Christ’s sacrifice that is my only claim to Heaven. It also makes me look at my enemies in a new light for knowing what it is to hate them makes me equal with them and understanding of how easy sin can get a hold of my heart has enlightened me to understanding how sin crouches at the door of my heart when I take my eyes of the one who is knocking to change it.

  125. oneg2dblu says:
    September 18, 2015 at 6:59 am

    joyce… the only truth I have is that which supports the entire word of God, not the parts the we all pick and choose as our doctrines or current less expanded beliefs allow.
    I bring only the other side of the story, when the other side is glossed over, watered down, or left out.
    If the conversation is only about love, love wins,I bring in the words they say we must hate sin.
    If the conversation is only about light, I bring in the darkness that exists in the world, and in the church today, even that darkness in us.
    So, my message from the word, is generally received as being the only as an accuser, the condemning one, the hostile, the wrong thinking one, not mature yet, and ignorant.
    As I see it, there is so much more to the story in the word, than just the promises.
    But, as the word says, In the last days, Itching ears will no longer tolerate sound doctrine, as many false teachings and their followers,who continue to rise and grow, like the tares, in this ever darkening world.
    In my own words if you will, where some may find a blessing, and others see only a curse.
    Gary

  126. oneg2dblu says:
    September 18, 2015 at 6:59 am

    joyce… the only truth I have is that which supports the entire word of God, not the parts the we all pick and choose as our doctrines or current less expanded beliefs allow.
    I bring only the other side of the story, when the other side is glossed over, watered down, or left out.
    If the conversation is only about love, love wins,I bring in the words they say we must hate sin.
    If the conversation is only about light, I bring in the darkness that exists in the world, and in the church today, even that darkness in us.
    So, my message from the word, is generally received as being the only as an accuser, the condemning one, the hostile, the wrong thinking one, not mature yet, and ignorant.
    As I see it, there is so much more to the story in the word, than just the promises.
    But, as the word says, In the last days, Itching ears will no longer tolerate sound doctrine, as many false teachings and their followers,who continue to rise and grow, like the tares, in this ever darkening world.
    In my own words if you will, where some may find a blessing, and others see only a curse.
    Gary

  127. oneg2dblu says:
    September 18, 2015 at 7:04 am

    sorry for the less than perfect way that I communicate, but I trust that even the hard message, will be loud and clear to those who have ears to listen.

  128. oneg2dblu says:
    September 18, 2015 at 7:07 am

    Maru… I only used a hammer to build strong well put together things, and tongs to feed the hungry.
    Both were used in service for the greater than myself.
    Gary

  129. oneg2dblu says:
    September 18, 2015 at 7:28 am

    I’ll ask of you all some fair but challenging questions,

    “Who do you think brought the awareness of sin into this world, with its horrid curses exposed, its accusations revealed, and its convictions clear, with guilt abounding everywhere, and as an act of love while using only kind words?”

    Thank you for your honesty.

    “Did God fully equip his prophets with only loving words, or was their message also very hard for some to hear, but, also given in truth and love?”

    Thank you for your honesty.

    “Does the word not say, that it divides, cuts like a knife, clear to the marrow?”

    And, if it does that so painfully, is that not also loving?

    Thank you for your honesty.

    Be Blessed, Gary

  130. joycemb says:
    September 18, 2015 at 9:10 am

    Gary you said: “Does the word not say, that it divides, cuts like a knife, clear to the marrow?”
    And, if it does that so painfully, is that not also loving?”

    Gary the ‘word’ referred to in this scripture (Hebrews 4:12) is Jesus. The only pain we experience though nothing compared to knowing Christ is the pain of saying goodbye to the things of this world. Hebrews explains the new and better way of Christ our redeemer from sin. Christ is able to see us as we really are, and changes us in an instant from unacceptable to accepted!

    Remember the rich man who went away sad when Jesus said he must give up everything to follow Him? Therein lies the source of our pain. First it was the 10 that showed us the pain involved in disobedience and now it’s Christ, the better way, a relational way.

    I know you know all this Gary. But I also think the enemy really enjoys it when Christians turn on each other because they are at different places in their spiritual growth or misinterpreting scripture as we all do at times yet don’t give one another the grace we’ve been given. Just being honest here.

    Sometimes it’s just wise to walk away or be silent when differences bring out the worst in us. That takes discipline and I am working on it. But God gives MORE grace to the stupid, ignorant, or whatever as we all are at times.

    Hope you and all have a great day in Jesus!
    Joyce

  131. poohpity says:
    September 18, 2015 at 9:11 am

    In the passages that sort of says that the word divides, cuts like a knife, clear to the marrow, which is very very loosely translated to say the lest, it seems is meant for the work it does in a person’s heart who reads it, listens to it and has a relationship with the Word not to use against others.

    By your own admission Gary as stated in the past that you are not that familiar with what the word says but continue to take parts out that only apply to the point you are making at the time you need them to. I think it first starts with having a relationship with the Word then the written word makes more sense.

  132. poohpity says:
    September 18, 2015 at 9:18 am

    Honesty recognizes honesty. Many have been honest with you Gary and have faithfully shared what the scripture actually says but it is not heard, heeded or believed.

  133. remarutho says:
    September 18, 2015 at 9:26 am

    Good Morning BTA Friends —

    Honestly, the Lord of Light Life and Love is Jesus of Nazareth — and Him only. So very much did God love the world that He sent His only Son. When He looks upon the city he laments:

    “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!”

    He Himself is the Word of God, able in every season and situation to accomplish all that the Word can do. The Gospel contains the power to convict. We are not forging horseshoes with fire – hammer – tongs, we are offering the Bread of Life, the true Shepherd, the Light of the world, in my opinion.

    The apostolic and prophetic call is to gather, to teach about Him, to seek the unity of the Holy Spirit, Gary. How can that life-style work over time? Honestly, I would cry myself to sleep every night if I brought the message of chaos, turmoil and trouble. Speak truth to power, Brother. No need to beat the sheep.

    Joy all day,
    Maru

  134. poohpity says:
    September 18, 2015 at 9:28 am

    There is actually no point in lying when everyone has the book right in front of them and nothing is hidden from God who knows each of our hearts, even our motives and reason why we do what we do so why not be honest, open and real there is really no point in being otherwise. It all comes out eventually anyway.

  135. remarutho says:
    September 18, 2015 at 9:29 am

    Hoped to write “He laments.” slip of the keyboard. Maru

  136. street says:
    September 18, 2015 at 9:31 am

    dear gary i believe there are warnings against disturbing the elect for own beliefs and judgments. God is more than capable of convicting and comforting His children. if you look at the hard Words of God, He does leave hope and promises that are just as sure as judgment. think about what you said about bringing hate darkness and a curse to the table. are you going to bring these to your judgment before God. i am well aware, as my brothers and sisters are, we and the world are not right. and yes we need light love and life. you will not find these outside of Christ. where are you gary? where is the promise of hope in Jesus? certainly not in gary?

  137. street says:
    September 18, 2015 at 11:46 am

    I bring only the other side of the story, when the other side is glossed over, watered down, or left out.

    life light and love are never watered down.

    i must commend you all for your frank and honest outlook on how God is working in your lives. there is much improvement over name calling and judgment. we certainly are making progress and i am beholding to all for your faithfulness. it is a joy to be confronted and encouraged in Christ. i do love the rest and i am beginning to enjoy the exercise. i do know there are more mountain tops and valleys in the future and He is faithful. God bless you and keep you and make His face shine upon you.

  138. joycemb says:
    September 18, 2015 at 12:21 pm

    Street I was thinking the same thing this morning about how this blog has changed for the better recently. God has taught me to be less judgemental and to not label others according to my personal dictionary. Ha!

    I too thank the rest for hanging in here and I thank God for the changes here for the better. He IS faithful and I am encouraged. Light, life and love, yes, that’s what church is all about. The church prevails! Yay!

  139. remarutho says:
    September 18, 2015 at 12:23 pm

    “…and be gracious to you — now and forever.”
    Amen, Street. He will never leave you nor forsake you.

    Blessings,
    Maru
    Romans 12:21

  140. oneg2dblu says:
    September 18, 2015 at 3:27 pm

    street… yes, the light, life, and love are never watered down, they are the promises we all find so attractive.

    But, they alone, are not the whole story are they?

    They are God’s part, those promises, and the part that I speak of is the other part, ours.
    Our part in the story, our cross to bear, our walk, our way, our work, our will, our responsibility to the keeping of the relationship, to our following of the commands, to our being obedient until the end.

    That is what is watered down, ignored, avoided, or not preached, and given over to an ever dangerous softening of the word, but, the warnings that say, once you put your hand to the plow… once you’ve tasted… and all the rest of the warnings that Once Saved Always Saved seems to ignore as they devalue any all sin, and also neglect to heed the warnings.

    Heck, there are even deceived people out there who think they can spit in the Lord’s face with no reprimand, no fear, because of false teaching.

    But, the word says, Matthew 7:21″ Not everyone who says, Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
    Ouch!
    Verse 22,23,24 are also quite rich, “Away from me you evil doers.”

    “Away from me you evil doers, I never knew you.”
    Ouch!
    Those are just a few of the things I see in the word, as well as all the promises, we all like to hear.

    Have a Blessed Day
    Gary

  141. joycemb says:
    September 18, 2015 at 3:30 pm

    In Matthew Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees about their works/law abiding not being enough to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, not born-again believers.

  142. joycemb says:
    September 18, 2015 at 3:36 pm

    I do appreciate the iron sharpening iron aspect of this blog, and Gary through your posts I can see where I have been misled in the past, and how that misleading has caused bondage instead of freedom in Christ! I pray for your freedom in Christ also.

  143. oneg2dblu says:
    September 18, 2015 at 3:42 pm

    joyce… you are correct about the double-edged sword, which divides the soul and the spirit, to the penetrating of the heart.

    Then, there is Luke 12: 51,52,53 a further dividing found in the word,
    51 “Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
    52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two, two against three.
    53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother in law against daughter in law and daughter in law against mother in law.”

    From now on the word will divide even us.
    Doesn’t that cut to the heart?

    Be Blessed
    Gary

  144. joycemb says:
    September 18, 2015 at 3:56 pm

    He’s talking about a spiritual division Gary that occurs when some believe and some don’t. He’s not pronouncing he’s describing the result of His influence in the world.

    “Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid” John 14:27

  145. joycemb says:
    September 18, 2015 at 4:01 pm

    From now on the word will divide even us

    Gary where in scripture does it say the believers, followers of Christ will be divided?

    Scripture speaks of unity in purpose, mind, and spirit. Division comes from outside the ranks.

    Which side of the ranks are you standing, Gary? If you are the lone voice I would suggest you rethink your stance. There was only one John the Baptist and the Body does NOT need another voice. The Shepherd is quite capable.

  146. joycemb says:
    September 18, 2015 at 4:06 pm

    I am getting very frustrated at this point, but Truth denied is still Truth. So, I need to take a break for a while. Peace

  147. joycemb says:
    September 18, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    Gary the kind of peace the world offers depends on basically how life is going. Worldly peace is easily disrupted by death, divorce, war, even having a bad hair day. But the peace of Christ is beyond our understanding because it’s a Spiritual peace that even the martyrs can attest to.

    That peace is what I am praying for you to experience, that peace that is beyond understanding. That Other-worldly peace.

  148. oneg2dblu says:
    September 18, 2015 at 7:39 pm

    joyce… I have no peace in this world, I have my peace in Christ, every conscience moment, and in every breath I take, a peace that is beyond understanding.

    So, how could I expect anybody else, other than Christ who brings about that peace between Him and I, if it is as we both agree, beyond understanding?

    If you can not see the division in the churches of the world today, then we can not ever agree that there is any division, even among the Christian churches.

    Christ himself said he came to divide, and I can see that division, if you can not, then you can not.

    If you believe that all translations agree, and all churches agree, all teachings agree, then to you there is no division.

    Enjoy your special vision, and I’ll enjoy mine.

    Remember the foot can’t tell the eye, where to go or what to do, the hand can’t tell the ear what to hear, and the mouth, well, that has a tongue… and a tongue has its own way of not allowing the rest of the body to ever control it.

    In my own words if you will.

    In John Chapter 6:66, “From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.”

    If that one pure holy teaching was enough to turn many away, could you imagine how many are turned away today because of false teaching.

    Broad is the road that leads to destruction and narrow is the road that leads to life and few will find it.

    Is that your truth also, or does some more false teaching today, claim even that premise, to be a lie?

    Gary

  149. oneg2dblu says:
    September 18, 2015 at 7:41 pm

    Oops another slip of the tongue, I meant to say “never control it.”
    Gary

  150. joycemb says:
    September 18, 2015 at 8:07 pm

    Gary I’m not going to try to change the way you interpret scripture as you are set in your belief system. But I’m still trying to figure out why you feel it is your ‘job’ to warn the churches and other Christians about falling away and going to the wrong church. If I have the Holy Spirit, and I do, then I am fore-warned when I am wandering away from the truth. I think Pooh has mention this MANY times. I agree. I think that those (such as yourself) who spend valuable time telling others to ‘beware’ are using time that could be better spent displaying the fruits of the Spirit in service to others.

    You mentioned the Emergent Church movement. Christ is in the world in all kinds of people and how Christians worship varies widely. However, to spend time judging whole church movements also and even this ODB ministry as you have in the past is very non-productive as far as the Kingdom of God. The early church, being brand new and it’s members fresh out of Legalistic Judaism and paganism needed a lot of help to understand God’s ways, which is what Paul’s letters are mostly about. You seem to base a lot of your rhetoric on those early letters. Not to minimize them at all! But the purpose of unifying the new members with the Gospel was for promotion of the message of God’s love/salvation poured out through His Son on the cross. And for corporate worship and teaching so they would go out from ‘church’ and spread the Good News to their pagan friends and neighbors. This mission has not changed to this very day.

    The bible says we will be remembered here on planet earth for our love. I know that truth raises all kinds of red flags for you but no matter how you slice it, love is love and doesn’t need anyone to offer this love with all kinds of ifs, ands, or buts. That’s not love, that’s deception and deceit. Hmmm

  151. poohpity says:
    September 18, 2015 at 8:39 pm

    Satan says “look at your sin” however God says, “look at my Son”. One is worldly and self focused the other is Christ focused who offers life, light and love.

  152. remarutho says:
    September 18, 2015 at 9:24 pm

    Good Evening Mart and Friends —

    You have asked, Mart, whether the Apostle John, in his unique gospel, has correctly described the Source of Light Life and Love as the coming of the New Creation in our resurrected Lord Jesus Christ.

    You wrote:

    “If he was right, what more is there to look for? Where else to look? How else to love?”

    If the scientific search for cell structure — evidence of life on other planets — is fruitful, how will this change the way humanity views our Creator God? I believe such a discovery would attest to God’s sovereignty in the entire universe.

    Even as some people wish to worship supposed alien beings, we are called and challenged to share our faith in the one true God and His Christ beyond the atmosphere of Earth.

    This prospect would call for great courage and trust in God — and yet, the Apostle Peter’s witness stands forever, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.”

    Jesus is the one true and living God everywhere forever.

    Blessed rest & good evening to all,
    Maru

  153. oneg2dblu says:
    September 19, 2015 at 9:07 am

    joyce… I love your heart and your openness.
    Your way with words…
    I can not expect all members of “any body,” to fully understand the workings of another.

    I can not explain to you why three different people read the same message, and come away with three different views, other than, we all filter through our own personal life experience, our own exposure to teachings, both true and false, and which of all of compiled together, relates to our ability to understand everything, but in our own way.

    I can however, share this with you today.

    In reading the ODB message today, as I do every day before I ever come here. I through my own filter saw two very telling points that I and Paul both can relate to through the verses exposed in 2 Corinthians 21-30.

    I relate strongly to these: First, is this point he shared, “In danger from false believers,” which if you believe there are false teachers, which by the way is biblical truth, then you can also believe there are false believers, which pooh can say otherwise all day long, and with her own strength, but, it does not change that probability at all.

    Second, is this point, “Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn?”

    Which others are calling only “me out on,” and never Paul, as they call it judging, wrong thinking, wrongly motivated, ignorant and the like, if I relate to such things.

    I am personally gripped to the heart that Paul did not suffer the tolerance in the church then, turning his cheek and calling that turning, love, as we all seem to now.

    What has changed, has changed very slowly, very methodically, almost unnoticed, and right in front of most of us.

    But, we who choose to be blinded by our own understanding, can then, choose to believe otherwise, which according to the bible, we are not supposed to do.
    Hmmm

    False teaching will always have very passionate followers, who believe and hear much truth, but are also victim to the subtle, ever changing messages, which they are being deceptively fed.

    Some see no harm, so no falseness, saying God would never allow anyone to mislead a believer, remember the Garden Story…but, remember the Sower, apparently Paul had other life experiences, and other teachers, and the Holy Spirit told him otherwise.

    He held others accountable, he held the church to the higher standard, the pure word, and never watered down his compassion for those who were being led astray.

    But, only if you can see my point, will you no longer waste your time pointing at me, saying I alone am judging, accusing the brethren, telling lies, ignorant, and the like, like others do.
    But, who am I to judge anyone?
    Hmmm
    Have a Blessed Day
    Gary

  155. joycemb says:
    September 19, 2015 at 9:17 am

    Getting off this circus ride, I’m dizzy.

  156. oneg2dblu says:
    September 19, 2015 at 9:26 am

    Sorry pooh… Satan does not say that, but, God does.

    “All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.”

    Satan says things like this, “Did God really say?”
    “Surely you won’t die.”

    Satan uses part of the truth, yet mixed with a deadly subtle lie.

  157. oneg2dblu says:
    September 19, 2015 at 9:32 am

    I believe it was God who showed man his sin, When He flooded the earth, when He wrote the Ten Commandments, which by the way, modern man can no longer tolerate, thus defining what sin or disobedience really looks like.
    But, I may be wrong.

  158. remarutho says:
    September 19, 2015 at 9:42 am

    Good Morning BTA Friends —

    As I make my way from this dizzying merry-go-round, I offer my sincerest thanks to those who have expressed a clear, cogent and faithful response to the topic of Light Life and Love.

    Rational discourse is helpful and refreshing!

    Blessings,
    Maru

  159. foreverblessed says:
    September 19, 2015 at 9:45 am

    It is very interesting that Gary does NOT mention the real deal that God had ordained in solving the sin question, it is NOT the flood, niet het the 10, but Redemption through the sacrifice of Christ.

  160. poohpity says:
    September 19, 2015 at 9:46 am

    Paul suffered for sharing the Gospel, leading people to Christ and doing good, not for playing the devils advocate, false teaching or twisting scripture to suit his fancy. It is obvious Gary that you really have a false sense of who you think you are, the thoughts of what you say having anything to do with the teaching in God’s Word and even about what was done on the Cross which is very seldom even mentioned, if ever, in anything you write.

    You are picked on because of the uninformed hog wash you write, nothing at all to do with suffering for the sake of the Gospel which is what ODB was about today.

  161. joycemb says:
    September 19, 2015 at 9:54 am

    Ok got my bearings again. Gary you missed the point of ODB. Though you have a heartfelt concern for the purity of the Gospel going forth YOU GARY ARE NOT THE APOSTLE PAUL. There is/was only one Saul of Tarsus. There was a time when I too lacked a sense of knowing who I am so found my identity in novel characters, popular figures, and even some Bible characters. It’s very very common for abused children to loose their identity as they are changed from what they would have been. I like you Gary because I get you. I understand the devastation severe abuse causes. I’ve lived it also.

    I sometimes in desperation to feel normal have joined groups – even religious ones to fit in somewhere; anywhere! But when I somehow became educated enough to see the complex system of slavery and bondage I’d fallen into ONCE AGAIN, I’d leave feeling just as empty and broken as before. And wondering why I keep doing this to myself. Well, the answer is I keep looking for the love I never got as a child. We were created to love and be loved. But some of us were born into loveless, abusive family systems. Why? Because God in His sovereignty has said so. Why? To display the riches of His glory in His beloved.

    While I can certainly relate to the very humanity in scripture as can we all at one time or another I have learned to accept my brokenness and quit even trying to fix another’s life or walk with a God and am learning to let- go as I speak.

    This is my walk, my road through life. Broken, ruined, impoverished in life and spirit but oh so LOVED! Me, Joyce, loved by my creator who knew me before I was born, formed me in my mothers womb knowing the vail of death that would hover around me

  162. joycemb says:
    September 19, 2015 at 9:57 am

    from my conception to ?. It’s His life I now live, finally.

  163. foreverblessed says:
    September 19, 2015 at 9:57 am

    Niet het is Dutch, NOT it, in english, but forget the it

  164. joycemb says:
    September 19, 2015 at 10:05 am

    “I have learned to accept my brokenness and quit even trying to fix another’s life or walk with a God and am learning to let- go as I speak.”

    Sorry, remove “a” before God in this sentence . Accidentally posted before finishing.

  165. foreverblessed says:
    September 19, 2015 at 10:17 am

    Hello Pooh and Joyce, my internet is slow, way outdoor, on my smart phone.
    I enjoy the commentaar especially when the verses are written in wordt to read.
    It is indeed better, the discussion, being here had tought me not tot feel discouraged, to kill the old man, tot die to my natural inclinations tot take opinion of others personal.
    To check what is said with Jesus.
    ROM 14:4, to his Master he stands.
    The unity is in Christ!
    There is unity NOW, we are all connecties to the Head, and that is Christ.

    Leave each other in Jesus’ hands.

  166. foreverblessed says:
    September 19, 2015 at 10:25 am

    Thank you Joyce, for your earlier testimony!
    That is God’s Light in darkness!
    For you Psalm 139:17-18

    Regina, I pray for you top. And for all of you, may you be forever blessed.

  167. poohpity says:
    September 19, 2015 at 12:01 pm

    Hey everyone type “Amen” if you have met, believe and trust in the Source from your heart. Amen!

  168. poohpity says:
    September 20, 2015 at 7:09 am

    Gary, for me I may not agree with the things you write but that does not mean I reject you as a person. We are all in the process of learning hopefully together.

  169. poohpity says:
    September 20, 2015 at 7:16 am

    I have actually grown quite fond of you. :-)

  170. jeff1 says:
    September 20, 2015 at 8:31 am

    I believe I need to be honest to who is working in my heart today. It is Jesus I aspire to work in my heart everyday but knowing myself as I do there are days I fail to meet God’s desire to work in me. The truth is some days I have not let the light in but the dark. The heart can be deceitful when my mind allows thoughts of past experiences to null it. I cannot trust my own heart. It is not my thoughts nor my heart make me right with God, it is the blood of Christ that makes me right with God, not my faith, nor my works for when I am honest, I have doubted God as many times as I have trusted Him and my works where as much for my own selfish reasons as they where to serve God. Gary is insistent that obedience makes me right with God but if that is so then I am doomed. Obedience may bring blessings from God but it is Christ and Christ alone that makes me right with God. There is no doubt in my mind that that is the Gospel for the word Gospel means truth. Men have taken the Gospel since time began and changed it to their way of thinking but it does not change the truth of that Gospel. Thanks be to God.

  171. joycemb says:
    September 20, 2015 at 9:59 am

    Steve you said on 9/14 at 11:14:
    “It is no small wonder that people who have been burdened with bi-polar malady or even the lesser of just mood swings have difficulty balancing joy with dread, but life is just such a balance of good days and bad our only conciliation is found in having faith that God and His Son are with us and there is light at the end of the tunnel. It is Psalm 23 that always comes to my mind when I think of being in the valley of what seems like hopelessness.”

    The 23rd psalm has always been a favorite, in fact I just purchased a very large Robert Wood landscape of a brook meandering through the mountains ($10) at a resale shop I put on my bedroom wall. I’ve always envisioned myself sitting beside still waters with Jesus in our conversations. I appreciate your reminder Steve that no matter our inner struggles ALL have good days and bad. I’m so grateful for the Light that never goes out even when it’s hard to see. Light filled with life and love!
    Blessings, Joyce

  172. street says:
    September 20, 2015 at 1:49 pm

    light life love

    If he was right, what more is there to look for? Where else to look? How else to love?

    to look for depth….
    to look for the unexpected….
    to love with all your heart.

    thinking today of lamentation, sorrow, and suffering in His hands it is good and safe place, because He loves us and will not withhold any good thing from us. thinking too, He saves the best for last. the Psalmist are right about God.

  173. street says:
    September 20, 2015 at 2:02 pm

    thinking of what poo said. i had a conversation with my brother this morning in that you can disagree with some one with every thought and fiber of your being, but you can still be kind to them. thinking of john the baptist and his being kind to herod in telling him the truth. it cost him his life but he was kind to him. we should be kind and truthful in the church and with each other. i do understand you still can’t poke a stick into a hornet nest. the Bible does mention a time for the righteous to be silent and a time to speak. faith on.

  174. street says:
    September 20, 2015 at 11:44 pm

    jeff said,”It is not my thoughts nor my heart make me right with God, it is the blood of Christ that makes me right with God,…”

    dear jeff, martin luther said a man is saved by faith alone. if Jesus is object of this faith or faith/Jesus interchanged he is correct. i have seen on here more than once, ” the righteous shall live by faith.” we know non are righteous. but who am i to argue with God who makes people righteous.

    we get into a lot of trouble with the thoughts and habits we bring into our walk with Christ. He will not leave us alone. and you know very well when a person comes to faith they are not perfect in mans eyes. His love sustains us corrects us comforts us teaches us….in other words He becomes our joy because of His Great Love. law can not love you. if i remember right the law will be done away with. the law was a tutor and we know it fades away. Christ remains forever.

  175. jeff1 says:
    September 21, 2015 at 5:39 am

    What I am trying to say Street is that if I believed it where my thoughts or works make me right with God then I have failed because I am not consistent in my thoughts and works. It is not for me to argue with God and I am not arguing, I am agreeing that if it where not for the blood of Christ I would not be right before God because I am inconsistent in my obedience.

    It is my belief that God sustains me and not obedience for I am failing in my obedience. The battle I have is in my mind and my heart too, but it is God who is with me in that battle. What I am trying to say, though not very well is that I do not agree that it is obedience that makes me right with God unlike Gary who does.

  176. jeff1 says:
    September 21, 2015 at 5:46 am

    Having the law instilled in me it is difficult at times to not look to the law for guidance but I still believe God guides my mind and heart when I am listening but listening can be difficult with the noise of the world and people I know still looking to the law, confusion sets in and I become frustrated with myself for not being able to focus on Christ.

  177. foreverblessed says:
    September 21, 2015 at 8:26 am

    Focussing on Christ is something that I am still learning. It started 18 years ago, when I was a christian, but looked more to the Law for guidance. that’s OK, God will wait till you are getting exhausted. Then I had to deal with the fact that I felt betrayed by my church, that it had not taught me to look to Christ, but instead to the Law.
    So these negative thoughts would come again and again.
    I sense, Jeff, that you also have to deal with thoughts about your country, as they do not deal justly with terrorists.
    I found out, it took me a long time, that the only thing I could do, is that when my thoughts would dwell on the wrong that had been done, I would stop that thinking, and instead I would focus on what Christ is saying, and on what He is doing, and on what He has done.
    Dwelling on the past, things that are gone, would only make me depressed, and sick. Focusing on Christ is the best. Even if I fail, I still try again and again.
    Psalm 34:19 a righteous man may fall many times, but the Lord delivers him out of them all.

    My longing is for Christ, and I do believe that God looks at the heart, at my heart, and at your heart.

    And then there is the other thing, it is not I who can make myself better, it is the Holy Spirit that heals me, cleanses me, purifies me.
    So I believe deeply, that when I look up in faith to Christ, that the Spirit will work in me. And so my heart will be changed bit by bit. And I do believe that that also happens to be the case in you, Jeff!
    Keep looking up to Jesus

    And do not give up, persevere in looking up.
    There is so much on perseverance in the New Testament. It is there for a reason, that all though we might fall, and fail, we keep our eyes focused on Christ, keep all our desire on Him.

  178. foreverblessed says:
    September 21, 2015 at 8:44 am

    And the Law is also deeply instilled in me, the Law has not done away with, Christ has magnified it and made it complete! And only IN Christ can I do what He wants me to do,
    we cannot even look in lust at somebody else, we cannot even harbor anger in ourselves and not breaking the law. It is Christ in us, who changes us, so our heart will not harbor these things any more.

    Then of course there is this thought: But I do have them? Am I then a sinner?
    Well, as soon as I see I have wrong thoughts, I stop them, and focus on God. DO not dwell on wrong thoughts.
    The thing is, I do not WANT to have these thought, I do not desire them, they come up. It is a different thing to have pleasure in them, and not fighting them.

    Paul is saying, when looking what comes up in his own mind and body:
    What a wretched man I am, who will rescue me from this body of death? Rom 7:24

    Thanks be to God— through Jesus Christ our Lord!
    So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. Rom 7:25

    he goes on to say, that the sinful nature has died with Christ in Romans 8. So I have to believe that sin has no power over me, neither these thoughts. if my desire is on Christ, and I discipline myself to go back to Jesus. Do not give up in this discipline!
    I know of a depressed young man in my church, who is giving up, God does not free me from these thoughts, neither from compulsary actions, from fear, from depression, and started doubting. He goes over from doubt, back to faith ,back to doubt. (He has been on drugs on on alcohol0.
    What a battle that is, I pray for this man intercessory prayers as Oswald Chambers advises.
    I believe that God hears the prayer of a righteous man (a man (woman) who is IN the one Righteous Man, that is Jesus) James 5:16

    But some of these things are tough!

    But focusing on Jesus, and His Spirit makes me whole bit by bit…

    when I think of how much has changed over these 18 years, I do not have these negative thoughts about my former church anymore, they are gone. But not in One miraculous moment, but in struggling year after year.

    and then I will do nothing against the Law, for there is no law against the fruit of the Holy Spirit.
    “for against such things there is no law” Gal 5:22

  179. street says:
    September 21, 2015 at 10:14 am

    dear jeff i understand you were not arguing with God i was. in that His Word is sound to the faithful or those who trust God. the ones who do not are like the wave in the sea they are to expect nothing from God. when we understand God is love we expect much from God and many times we do not understand. He does expect love and trust from us, faith and love so to speak. when we take are disappointment anger sin worries to God it shows us to be faithful. job did it and was found to be quite righteous and faithful. come to think of it He gives us more than just righteousness. He makes us perfect and holy in His sight. I find this comes from Him not from ourselves. i can see you are on the narrow path.

  180. poohpity says:
    September 21, 2015 at 10:18 am

    I have found even when I am not faithful, God is! It was the obedience of Christ that secured our position with God. Our job seems to be belief, faith(as small as a mustard seed), dependence on/in Him that assures us that “nothing” can separate us from His love. The Greek New Testament Words “oudeis and outheis, oudemia, ouden and outhen means no one, nothing, none in other words nothing, no one, none can separate us from God, once we are His. Not faults, failures, mess ups, doubts, sin, walking away, once you are God’s child you will always be God’s-The Father with open arms welcoming us even when we have gone astray. How do I know this for sure because I have done all those things and God never let me go but continued to pursue me. I did not deserve it but God’s love covers many, many things.

  181. joycemb says:
    September 21, 2015 at 10:20 am

    Pooh would you mind posting that song again about falling down and getting up? Such truth there. Thanks, Joyce

  182. street says:
    September 21, 2015 at 10:56 am

    dear jeff and forever, was thinking of what paul said about what He did with his mind when any thought entered. he took it prisoner and sifted it with Gods Word or law. i am appalled at the thoughts i have to deal with every day some i understand must be killed immediately. this process is apart of denying your self and petting your thoughts, like petting a cat on your lap. remember the law is a tutor and God made this tutor in love. it is judgment and condemnation that is not loving from human’s perspective. from God’s it is righteous just holy and loving. very tough to understand. i just understand it is true from faith in the Character of God and the history in the Bible. remember we must deny ourselves? in finding our thoughts unreliable we turn to God knowing He is. as we study and turn the pages of His Word and apply them our faith and trust grow. when we do this by the letter of the law we are still in darkness, or stepping into the shadow of the law, God is light and God is love and He supplies this without reserve to those who love trust and obey Him. i am not there yet, but i expect to see God like job and live. thinking my spirit has seen Him in Christ. looking for consummation like all believers for in it we will be finished too. come Lord Jesus come. something in me thinks we were finished before the foundation of the world which rest on God’s love. on a side note i ran into an intriguing verse that the palace in heaven God lives in. it says it’s foundation extends to the earth. i find this quite remarkable. just as remarkable as the Holy Spirit the Son and the Father. He is full of surprises. back to where i started persevering and waiting. while waiting it is good to love and worship God by serving those He loves. what ever you did for the least of your brethren you did it to Me.

  183. jeff1 says:
    September 21, 2015 at 11:52 am

    Everything about God and Heaven I find intriguing but difficult to understand. I do not understand people who do not want even to consider God is real, they rule it out completely, while their are those who are more, not convinced but are willing to at least consider His being real. Like you Street it is because I seem to have always known God, always was aware that I was not on my own, difficult to explain it to those who do not have the same feelings. My friend says some are more in touch with their spiritual side and I put it down to that because as a child I always give a lot of thought to God and seemed to understand that He was watching over me no matter what bad happened I knew God was near. I find the most difficult part of knowing is not being able to share with family and friends because they do not have that understanding. So there is a sadness as well as joy to knowing God is real. It is good to know we face similar struggles so that I can identify when I am wandering off on my own, I believe I have a tendency to wander for that is why I get confused and fraught with myself. I have always been too trusting of people and this can make life difficult for me when some are not to be trusted, it is discerning whom I can trust is often what I find difficult.

  184. joycemb says:
    September 21, 2015 at 12:04 pm

    Street and Vivien you both bring up an interesting point. In a nutshell it’s how to see Jesus in the least of these when you’ve grown up only seeing the devil in people. Even understanding, eventually, that those who have chosen to do evil are also in some ways the least of these even if they don’t understand it still makes trust hard. Maybe we just throw worry about trusting people to the winds of God and give Him the responsibility for what happens to us? Just thinking. Love how you make me think.

  185. poohpity says:
    September 21, 2015 at 1:42 pm

    Bob Carlisle – We Fall Down Lyrics

    Cursing every step of the way, he bore a heavy load
    To the market ten miles away, the journey took its toll
    And every day he passed a monastery’s high cathedral walls
    And it made his life seem meaningless and small

    And he wondered how it would be to live in such a place
    To be warm, well fed and at peace, to shut the world away
    So when he saw a priest who walked, for once, beyond the iron gate
    He said, “Tell me of your life inside the place”, and the priest replied

    We fall down, we get up, we fall down, we get up
    We fall down, we get up
    And the saints are just the sinners
    Who fall down and get up

    Disappointment followed him home, he’d hoped for so much more
    But he saw himself in a light he had never seen before
    ‘Cause if the priest who fell could find the grace of God to be enough
    Then there must be some hope for the rest of us
    There must be some hope left for us

    ‘Cause we fall down, we get up, we fall down, we get up
    We fall down, we get up
    And the saints are just the sinners
    Who fall down and get up

    We fall down, we get up, we fall down, we get up
    We fall down, we get up
    And the saints are just the sinners
    Yeah, the saints are just the sinners
    Who fall down and get up

    (We fall down, we get up, we fall down, we get up)
    (We fall down, we get up)
    And the saints are just the sinners
    Who fall down and get up

    (We fall down, we get up, we fall down, we get up)
    (We fall down, we get up)
    And the saints are just the sinners

    (We fall down, we get up, we fall down, we get up)
    (We fall down, we get up)
    And the saints are just the sinners

    (We fall down, we get up, we fall down, we get up)
    (We fall down, we get up)
    And the saints are just the sinners
    Yeah, the saints are just the sinners
    Who fall down and get up

  186. joycemb says:
    September 21, 2015 at 1:58 pm

    Thank you Pooh, wonderful song.

  187. joycemb says:
    September 21, 2015 at 2:06 pm

    Makes me think of a true story about a Catholic priest and a Buddhist monk that were friends and would get together once a year and take a long walk through the countryside. Someone said to the priest, what do you talk about? His reply, “football”.

    I think of this because like the song we don’t really know where people are at in their walks and it’s so easy to judge. Maybe we should be talking about football, crocheting, knitting, hockey or whatever more and let God do His work in His Kingdom.

  188. poohpity says:
    September 21, 2015 at 3:34 pm

    Is it really our business where people are in their walk? Isn’t that between God and them? God knows those who wish to grow closer to Him and those who are satisfied with a surface relationship.

    There are so many other social media sites and chat places to talk about many other things and the diversity in life with our relationships in our neighborhoods, communities, friends, family and church family but here it has been so nice talking about the subjects, questions and issues that Mart has given us to think about and dig deeper. The odd thing is that all the things that gave us direction about this blog have been taken down I wonder if it because no one hardly ever followed them but a very few. Just like Mart used to post new topics everyday, then it became a couple times a week and now it is a couple times a month.

    Things change so if you want to talk about football, crocheting, knitting, hockey or whatever go ahead that is pretty much what everyone does here any more anyway but I used to really like discussing things about God, His ways, what He has done for us and some of the questions that many of us have about faith, etc., not to feel alone in their struggles or misunderstandings.

  189. poohpity says:
    September 21, 2015 at 3:39 pm

    This site does not even look like any of the other ODB sites any more. It has none of the connections to other parts of the ministry it just seems disconnected. So maybe it is an embarrassment now a days.

  190. joycemb says:
    September 21, 2015 at 3:40 pm

    Lol Zing! Yep sometimes I’m just too kind for my own good! Just got zapped on the tilt-a-whirl of pooh. Again. Oh when will I learn? Well, as long as God is really in control and I believe He is then it’s all good. Really, it’s all good.

  191. joycemb says:
    September 21, 2015 at 3:57 pm

    Mart thank you for providing this blog for us to talk about some very personal struggles as we learn to walk with Jesus every day. I appreciate your kindness and gentleness. God bless you. Joyce

  192. poohpity says:
    September 21, 2015 at 3:58 pm

    There is no such thing as being to kind to anyone, Joyce. My remarks are about this blog on a whole and in general. Haven’t you noticed that the top section is no longer there or the connections to other ministry sites that were once on the bottom nor or the other sites connected to this one any longer. I was not trying to be unkind just noticing how the whole blog has changed which is just facts nothing personal. It was not a zap. :-(

  193. poohpity says:
    September 21, 2015 at 4:01 pm

    It is just observations.

  194. poohpity says:
    September 21, 2015 at 4:02 pm

    Didn’t you notice the changes????

  195. joycemb says:
    September 21, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    Pooh, you said my observations about the conversation between the priest and monk were not about God. Wrong. They were brought up thinking about how we relate to one another as Christ followers with pagans. How we relate to the world and each other is important and our spiritual growth shows in how we do that.

    As far as the changes in the blog format I don’t really care; Mart does as the Spirit leads and I trust him. Saying it is an embarrassment means that we the participants are an embarrassment as without us there would no blog.
    “So maybe it is an embarrassment now a days.” you said.
    That’s hurtful and evil pooh.

  196. street says:
    September 21, 2015 at 4:41 pm

    poo said,”Is it really our business where people are in their walk?”

    cain said am i my brothers keeper?

    God said to israel, you will be a kingdom of priest.
    i don’t think He has change his mind. we need to understand the function and limits of a priest. we know Jesus is a Prophet, Priest, and a King. if we were to be like Him would we be tainted with these three offices?
    on the same line of thinking Jesus is King of kings and Lord of lords. i know man was to rule over the earth and the Works of His Hands. i don’t see anything other than kings and lords in other words humans made in the image of God. rule without love is tyranny. we really need to learn to love.

  197. street says:
    September 21, 2015 at 4:47 pm

    And the saints are just the sinners

    not true they are the beloved righteous holy children of God who will dwell with Him in perfection.

  198. joycemb says:
    September 21, 2015 at 5:26 pm

    Pooh, may God have mercy on you. May He make His face to shine upon you, and give you His peace.

  199. poohpity says:
    September 21, 2015 at 5:59 pm

    Oh my gosh Joyce I said nothing about the priest and the monk. Where on earth did you get that and what on earth are you talking about? Thanks for your platitudes, jeez.

    street, I do not know where you are coming from either??? We are not responsible for another’s response to God it is not our business. We are only responsible for our own response to God. There is direction if we see a brother/sister caught in something that is taking them away from God that we go to them one on one gently to guide them back, if they do not listen then 2 go to the person then go to the church to help but we are not responsible to God for them. I can not stand before God on your behalf nor can you stand before God on my behalf only Jesus can do that. Jeez.

    Talk about weird. Reading comprehension is really lacking here more often than not and not trying at all to understand what another is saying.

  200. poohpity says:
    September 21, 2015 at 6:09 pm

    street, I will say this as plainly as I can in hopes you can understand. The song about falling down says, “Saints are only sinners who fall down and get up”. That means that saints are only sinners who fall down and get back up again with the help of the Lord. If you have a problem with what the song says then go tell the man who wrote it that you have problems with his wording and thoughts, that you do not understand what he means or agree with it.

  201. jeff1 says:
    September 21, 2015 at 6:13 pm

    Perhaps it is difficult for us to see ourselves anything else but sinners. It is not really a problem for God, He sees us as Saints for we are new creations but the difficulty is that neither non-believers, nor other religions see us as Saints for they do not see us through God’s eyes. We have to live in this world though we are citizens of another world. I thought it would get easier but I find that there is a tension in living in this world as it becomes more alien to me. I do not see this world the way my children see it, there is a generation gap and I find that I have now become dependant on my children to help me see my days in this world. I see myself as a product of my time for I miss the old ways but understand that you cannot stop progress and the younger generation are much more adaptable to the changes that time brings.

  202. joycemb says:
    September 21, 2015 at 6:19 pm

    Interestingly I just looked back on one of Marts topics about “Relationships” he posted in July of 2011 and the same old stuff is still going on here! Wow, some things never change. I’m actually shocked that the same people are still doing the same things; twisting, minimizing, and turning their stuff back on others. (Pooh)

    Some of the newer people here may be interested. Some of you have the patience of Job! Wow.

    Yes pooh you seem to thrive on being the martyr/victim here. Too bad. May God have mercy on your soul as I said earlier, and I mean it. You know the correct words to transmit the Gospel, but your own words/actions speak the opposite. Wow.

  203. joycemb says:
    September 21, 2015 at 6:27 pm

    Pooh you said at 3:34pm “Things change so if you want to talk about football, crocheting, knitting, hockey or whatever go ahead that is pretty much what everyone does here any more anyway but I used to really like discussing things about God”

    That was in direct reference to what I said about the Priest and the Monk. You are changing things again. This is what you do when confronted. Just like the comment about this blog being an embarrassment, which when I confronted you about you didn’t even mention.

    When you are caught you minimize, deflect, change, and ignore the truth of what you said. Now you are going to say you are hurt. It’s all about you, it’s always about you.

    I’m sure if I read back beyond 2011 you were doing the same thing. amazing.

  204. joycemb says:
    September 21, 2015 at 6:35 pm

    Ignoring some is the best way to go for sure. There’s no amount of grace that makes up for stupid, and those, like me, who keep forgiving then forgetting and putting my stick into the hornets nest again, well, we see the results here. Sting me once, shame on you, sting me twice, shame on me. Stupid is as stupid does sometimes. Not going to be stupid anymore. LOL!

  205. narrowpathseeker says:
    September 21, 2015 at 7:02 pm

    EXACTLY!! When I come on here and see everyone upset with Gary with Pooh leading the flock, I don’t know whether to laugh, cry, or scream. When I first came here I didn’t “see” what was going on but over the years it has become so blatantly obvious that I am amazed that anyone could remain blind to it. Gary, has some very different views than most of us, but I don’t think it his intent to upset anyone nor do I think that he enjoys upsetting people. I think he genuinely cares about people and believes he is right. This is how I “see” Pooh. She pokes and jabs at anybody and everybody intentionally so that when she finally gets the best of them and they break, she points her finger at them and goes on a condescending binge on them. THEN somehow she gets some people to come on and agree with her, defend her, and even praise her!! All I can think is that the woman needs prayer not approval of such behavior which has been an ongoing thing here. You Pooh are far more guilty of ALL the things that you point out in everyone here, which we may or may not be guilty of at any given time. Now of course I am sure I will be deemed the bad bad guy here, but I will continue to pray that the Lord have mercy on us ALL.. You know Pooh, you type all the right words(or copy and paste somebody else’s words) in one paragraph and then treat someone in direct opposition of those right words, in the next paragraph. Do you really think that you are very clever or do you think everybody here is just stupid?

  206. joycemb says:
    September 21, 2015 at 7:31 pm

    Just thinking about what I wrote earlier today:
    joycemb says:

    September 21, 2015 at 12:04 pm

    Street and Vivien you both bring up an interesting point. In a nutshell it’s how to see Jesus in the least of these when you’ve grown up only seeing the devil in people. Even understanding, eventually, that those who have chosen to do evil are also in some ways the least of these even if they don’t understand it still makes trust hard. Maybe we just throw worry about trusting people to the winds of God and give Him the responsibility for what happens to us? Just thinking. Love how you make me think.

    What I’m learning through the conversations this day is that maybe God wants us to just throw worry about trusting people to the winds of God and give Him responsibility for what happens to them instead of us. I have decided that caring about others-particularly those who have too many stingers, barbs, and hidden weapons they pull out at the most opportune times for them is best done at a distance. Sorry Pooh, I won’t take anything from you anymore. You have brought darkness to this day, once again, and I’m going to skip off into the Light.

    Good to hear from you Pearl. Gary I hope you are ok. Viv God bless you also and hope your sleep will be sweet. Street, your wisdom from God is beautiful. Thank you all for enriching my life. Joyce

  207. bubbles says:
    September 21, 2015 at 9:05 pm

    Ephesians 4:29 and 32

  208. bubbles says:
    September 21, 2015 at 9:22 pm

    Years ago I listened to a talk given by a certain author that was based on Eph. 4:29. During this talk, she spoke of the power of words, and how they can edify those who hear them or how they can tear down and hurt.

    She wrote a book that I purchased after hearing her speak. God used this verse to convict me severely and I needed it.I need to remember this verse because I still have problems with this. She gave the reminder our words can minister grace to the hearers. Our words need to be like little presents or they can be like rotten apples we throw at others.
    Since God has forgiven us, who are we to not forgive others?

  209. street says:
    September 21, 2015 at 10:37 pm

    dear poo, think of it this way the devil has been judged and condemned already. we know the sentence has not been carried out yet but will be shorty. christians are saved and as of yet they do not appear what they will be. in light of God’s grace love mercy and great cost we honor God’s Son and adoption into His Family in keeping with His wishes as a loving Father. i though of myself as a sinner all the time. what do sinners do? they sin. thinking of myself as a child of God has changed my outlook behavior and thinking. not over night, but it is definitely changed. and this outlook is love according to the standard found in Christ. i tell you the truth sinners do not know how to love to this standard because they do not know God. can a child of God sin? yes. can they be restored? yes will there come a time to stop sinning? yes are we finished no, but are we a done….i think so. and yes they get back up. Dad will see to that. it’s time to take our eyes of sin and put them on Christ and as paul said search out this width breath height and depth of God’s love in Christ Jesus. it is a pilgrims progress. one of the things not mentioned in pilgrim progress that i have come to accept is there is to be an underlying joy in it. a newness of growth and expectation at every twist and turn. it not all negative. when it is what are we focused on? light life love the goal is abundant life and this is in God. God = life

  210. joycemb says:
    September 21, 2015 at 10:48 pm

    Jesus said that we are to forgive when that person repents, even if it’s 70×7 a day. Key word is ‘repents’.
    We see this with ministry leaders who are told to step down from their church or whatever for a time to get right with God by honestly facing their sin and acknowledging the grief they have caused to others and to God. If they don’t the danger is they will infect the whole ministry and lead others to sin and even try to destroy what God has built. It can be tough not being co-dependent with them which is why it takes loving and swift action to deal with those who are unrepentant. We forgive for our own peace of mind with God for sure, like you said Bubbles, but if after being confronted by one or two witnesses or the whole ministry if needed they refuse to hear what God is telling them they are to be separated out so they don’t infect the whole group and even cause further damage to their own selves (through self-deception). The goal is reconciliation hopefully and restoring to fellowship with others once again.

    Pearl you made a very good observation, that when one goes after someone,(Gary was mentioned), others follow. That’s the very danger Paul was talking about in Corinth. Nothing’s changed. I myself have always been a co-dependent and thank you for bringing this up. I’ve always been a follower, which I don’t mind, but I need healthier people, like you, to keep me out of my own way sometimes. Thank you dear friend.

  211. SFDBWV says:
    September 22, 2015 at 6:44 am

    Mart often has up “what if” subjects so in a bit of a twist on the subject of “life Light and Love” I would put forward this “what if”.

    The first people of the earth sought out a forbidden knowledge via disobedience.

    Suppose if when they partook of the forbidden fruit what they discovered was that they needed a Savior in order to make up for and erase their act of disobedience.

    Then suppose they discovered that Savior was the same person who created them and placed the boundaries of their freedoms.

    I want to believe *if* they had made this discovery instead of crouching in fear in an attempt to hide from their creator, they would have come before Him naked and in tears of appreciation and discovered what real love is.

    In this scenario the rest of the story may not have been necessary.

    However the lesson I have learned is that once I have found the source of “Life-Light- and Love” my search is complete and as I am naked before Him I am assured that it is His love that covers my nakedness.

    53 degrees this morning and wet from a foggy night, only a high of 55 yesterday amid drizzle, fall is here.

    Steve

  212. jeff1 says:
    September 22, 2015 at 7:21 am

    Street says the devil has been judged and condemned already. We know the sentence has not been carried out yet but will be shortly. With the world in a mess it is keeping reminding myself that the devil is beaten that is difficult sometimes. Partly because I do not focus enough on what Christ has done but the world at large. This world is a scary place when I take my eyes of Jesus. Satan gets into my head and tries to convince me that I am His and not God’s. Taking a day at a time works for me in that I concentrate on what I am doing now and not thinking too much keeps my mind clear from wrong thoughts. It is a practise I have had to adopt because of being a manic depressive and I find that I have peace when I let God be in charge. When I take my eyes off Christ I become hard and critical of others and allow Satan a hold over me. I do not think I knew in the past how to stop Satan stealing my joy but thankfully from learning from you all I now recognise that I must make a deliberate choice to focus on God’s love for me and not on Satan having his way with me. I apologise to Steve for my over reaction when he used the word stupid in one of his posts as I have always found his posts made me think and not provoke me but as a manic depressive my sister says there are days when she can not talk to me for I can be very irrational and that is my only excuse for my reaction to Steve’s post. I believe Joyce you are correct that sometimes being around spiritually healthy people is what we need but it is not always easy to find those people and not being the most spiritually healthy person myself then I can understand why those who are would not want to be around me.

  213. SFDBWV says:
    September 22, 2015 at 7:49 am

    Viv you have nothing to apologize to me about, please be at peace. It is I who need to ask your forgiveness for my oafish behavior as too often I can be a bull in a china shop.

    I like to use old sayings as they are a collection of wisdom from past efforts to make a point and usually do a very good job.

    I admit I am not in the least bit a “politically correct” person and am guilty of being too blunt too often.

    I don’t apologize for that as much as I do for hurting another’s feelings, something I really don’t want to or ever like to do.

    To use another old “saw” “To err is human, to forgive divine.”

    Be at peace my Irish friend.

    Steve

  214. jeff1 says:
    September 22, 2015 at 8:05 am

    Thank you for responding Steve and I am so happy that there is no bad feeling between us. Thank God for giving me the light.

  215. poohpity says:
    September 22, 2015 at 8:21 am

    dearest street, I believe that Bob Carlisle was giving a definition of a saint; as a sinner who messes up, falls down but does not stay down but gets back up. That saint has to understand they will never be perfect or sinless so no matter if one lives in a monastery or outside it’s walls it is still applicable to all those who have received God’s forgiveness(saints). So it seems that Mr Carlisle was calling those who believe in Jesus, saints with the description of sinners who fall down and get back up. Jesus died for the sins of the world way before anyone ever repented or even admitted to their sin, isn’t that what we are called to do also that comes in the name of grace.

  216. foreverblessed says:
    September 22, 2015 at 8:58 am

    Nice, Steve, to see you back! May God bless you and strengthen you, to obtain the goal you have defined for yourself today! May God also bless Narrow, and Pooh, and Joyce, Street, and above all Jeff, I am so happy that you see the light, and I pray that God give you the perseverance to hold on to your determination to look up to Jesus. That you may get rid of all the negativity, that you may be full of Joy, praising God for His deliverance! May God give you a big deliverance so you can see it now already!

    I pray for all of you! May God bless you and keep you, and make His face shine upon you.

    That God makes His face shine upon us, must be something as the Light of Jesus shining in our hearts.

    Genesis starts with God creating heaven and earth, and then it says that there was chaos, and disorder.
    The Spirit of God was hoovering over the waters.
    That must mean something as this: God sees us, and sees what a chaos it is, when He first went after us. And then He says: Let there be Light.
    The Light of Jesus shining in our hearts, is the beginning of God making saints out of sinners, order out of chaos.

    I also believe that He does it slowly, maybe years and years. He is so patient with me, and so I should treat others the same as God has treated me.
    We treat Pooh with patience, and Gary too, and Narrow too.

    Narrow, may God give you peace of mind, give you joy. Let Pooh be pooh, let her go. GO to Jesus instead, make more effort to put your thoughts on all the characteristics Jesus has, and how much He has given you.
    Sorry I sound like a school teacher, but Narrow, why vex yourself about another persons reaction? Start blessing her instead. I have found out that that is the best way to work with people who are a nuisance to me.
    Do not be overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good.
    Anyway, I pray that God gives us the strength to do that.
    God loves us all!

  217. poohpity says:
    September 22, 2015 at 10:13 am

    Is it possible to disagree with something someone writes and present a differing point without personal attacks and name calling?

  218. joycemb says:
    September 22, 2015 at 10:33 am

    Gary I am really beginning to understand better what you have been saying about obedience. My Utmost today really explains it well, that obedience is something we want to do if we are in Christ Jesus.

    So on that thought I did some reading on modern-day heresies in the church and did find that the popular teachings on grace, meaning all sins are already covered and since we can’t not sin all we have to do is apply mercy and we are good to go, is VERY contradictory to what the Bible actually teaches.

    As I said before, coming from a very legalistic religion where works were actually used to define us it overpowered the message of freedom in Christ. That we are FREE to follow and obey, not being pushed by a whip and a baseball bat and the happy or not so happy looks on the faces of the elders. (The pastor actually used a belt on his 3-4 year old daughters when they were ‘disobedient’.) This was so much like the home I was raised in. So for me it fit for a while, until I really came into a personal relationship with Christ.

    And even then I have had a hard time often discerning truth; as Viv says, the enemy gets in there and starts trying to lead me astray using my background and even my pride against me. Oh Jesus, I need you now more than ever.
    The word says if you “walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh”. Which is why every day I say Lord, I choose to walk in the Spirit today. Help me!

  219. jeff1 says:
    September 22, 2015 at 11:45 am

    Thank you foreverblessed, I do believe my light dims more than some who seems to keep their’s bright all the time. I am speaking of a 95 year old friend of mine who died this year and she had amazing faith and I miss her encouragement so thank you for yours. Joyce you have an understanding that I can relate to so well but I must try to understand those who I don’t relate to so well for they are still works in progress too. What you said about understanding what Gary says about obedience, it is not that I see Gary as wrong but I think He tries to force it too much where God allows us as individuals to grow in obedience. I do understand that it is difficult when others do not see from my view point for I get frustrated with my family when they do not consider that God is very real to me. Endurance brings patience with those who are less able to see God in their life.

  220. joycemb says:
    September 22, 2015 at 11:50 am

    Vivien you are so wise…

  221. street says:
    September 22, 2015 at 12:00 pm

    poo said,”dearest street, I believe that Bob Carlisle was giving a definition of a saint; as a sinner who messes up, falls down but does not stay down but gets back up.”

    this is my point, what we focus on is what we become. if we focus on sin we sin if we focus on law we become a legalistic if we focus on Jesus we become Christ.
    did not paul say he labored till Christ is formed in us?
    God looks to see Himself in us and we look to see ourselves in Him. the Father and the Son are One. sin separates this relationship, Jesus is the glue that holds in together and the bond is love.

  222. street says:
    September 22, 2015 at 12:03 pm

    i remind all my brothers and sisters that the work that God has begun in you by His great love and tender care will be brought to perfect completion in Christ Jesus, to the glory of God.

  223. poohpity says:
    September 22, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    street, if that was your point then what was all dissension about? The song has not changed since it was first posted, it says nothing different than what it said to begin with which fault was found in it’s wording but now you agree? I am so confused. Wouldn’t it be better to consider a whole sentence rather than picking parts out to attack the premise without understanding it within the context?

    Joyce and narrow, if one already has anger, bitterness, rage and malice in their heart then eventually someone will come along, it does not really matter who they are, what they say or do it will trigger what is already in a heart to come out. I was not there in the beginning of the anger or the rest that got formed in your hearts I only have the pleasure of being one of the recipients of the outpouring. If blaming me helps in anyway go right ahead.

  224. joycemb says:
    September 22, 2015 at 1:43 pm

    Ghandi-esk like philosophy

  225. street says:
    September 22, 2015 at 2:19 pm

    poo the dissension was in me not you. it’s the same as the response our fellow traveler felt when confronted with the word stupid. scars are real and sometimes very deep, but the Word God, Spirit of God, heals and brings wholeness out of what was broken.

    the dissension is not the fault, the focus is. it seems to me the main focus of the song is on self. sinning falling down and getting up. what caused the sin? how do we get back up? the focus is on the past and failure not on the present and future that is in Christ. the song does not address the hope that is in Christ only the realization that some day you will not get up. The Son died to make you free, you will be free indeed.

    have you ever heard the 7/11 approach to music?
    remember Jesus saying about people who pray with many words? i think it applies to music too. i am not saying he is sinning. i can tolerate it. i just hope people can move on sooner than later. we will all find dead ends in are thinking and understanding. when we do it is time to look up or as david said He strengthens me to leap over a wall and be placed in a very broad place. His presents sustains me. God bless you poo and your time with Him.

  226. joycemb says:
    September 22, 2015 at 2:30 pm

    Pooh you really are blessed, you just don’t know it. There is freedom in and through Christ. Accountability is how we love one another. It is Christ’s way, not the way of the Buddha. The narrow way, not the broad way.

  227. joycemb says:
    September 22, 2015 at 2:32 pm

    If you have ears to hear, you will. If not, then draw near to God and He will give you understanding.

  228. poohpity says:
    September 22, 2015 at 4:30 pm

    Accountability is done normally with close, loving, safe friends who care more about building you up and encouraging than tearing you down, attacking your character and name calling. So what is done on this blog is the farthest thing from holding another accountable it is more in tune with ripping and tearing apart. So if you have ears to hear listen because nothing you say to me is done with one ounce of love or care but to trample me under your spiked shoes. I guess you really have yourself buffaloed if you really believe what you say but it does not fool me at all.

  229. narrowpathseeker says:
    September 22, 2015 at 4:56 pm

    And here we have the perpetual “victim” round ending this cycle of the never ending nonsense. I have noticed that Westboro Church has been silenced lately. The media and the people Westboro attempts to violate mentally and emotionally have ignored them and not given them the attention they crave. Ears to hear sounds quite appropriate at this time.

  230. joycemb says:
    September 22, 2015 at 5:01 pm

    yes things just don’t change…

  231. joycemb says:
    September 22, 2015 at 5:21 pm

    But God….there’s always hope!

  232. narrowpathseeker says:
    September 22, 2015 at 5:23 pm

    Foreverblessed, THANK YOU for your prayers and counsel. I always appreciate loving guidance. I KNOW you are right. You may remember that I struggled almost everyday to do what I believed God wanted me to do (help care for my unremorseful and ungrateful ex husband). My “FEELINGS” certainly were not that of love, but I prayed for him, prayed WITH him, and did everything I needed to do to keep him comfortable. While I was doing this I was frequently subjected to arrogant verbal abuse and I would run to the Lord at the river and ask for HELP!!! “Lord,give me strength to do this, because I can’t take much more” Well, the Lord has Blessed me beyond anything I ever expected and He continues to Bless me” So again I thank you for you loving counsel. Have a Blessed evening

  233. narrowpathseeker says:
    September 22, 2015 at 5:30 pm

    Steve, I do not think you are “too blunt too often”. I think you are lovingly forthright, wise, and a very interesting teacher. I’m glad you are back too.

  234. street says:
    September 22, 2015 at 5:30 pm

    poo said,”Accountability is done normally with close, loving, safe friends who care more about building you up and encouraging than tearing you down, attacking your character and name calling.”

    dear poo we are far worst then what people perceive are faults to be. that includes our own perception too. i think spugeon said something along these lines i would use his quote if i could remember it. it’s easy to attack and accuse, it’s a lot harder to speak the truth with love. even if you did speak with truth and love the hearer can still respond like a sinner.

  235. poohpity says:
    September 22, 2015 at 7:12 pm

    street, here is the context of what the bible teaches about speaking the truth in love, it is not attacking the character of a person, or destroying them by our judgement without even knowing them, or calling them everything but a child of God. It is teaching about Jesus(Truth) with much affection and love.

    As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.(Eph 4:14-16)

    Most use that verse to think they know the heart of another and that gives them permission to confront what they think they know real or imagined as truth. That is just wrong.

  236. poohpity says:
    September 22, 2015 at 7:28 pm

    Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life”. Teaching about Jesus is where our focus will be not on our fellow sojourners and picking them apart which leads to internal, spiritual and external destruction. Obvious there are those who would rather destroy others than build them up but that is not part of who we are in Christ Jesus. That does not display who has our heart and does not resemble, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, self control, gentleness.

  237. street says:
    September 22, 2015 at 8:32 pm

    now i am confused poo. the song We fall down, we get up, we fall down, we get up
    We fall down, we get up
    And the saints are just the sinners is ok with you, but to admit people are wretches is not ok?
    you are right in that Jesus is much better at saving and loving then i am. i am sorry i implied you were a wretch.
    tongue in cheek.

  238. poohpity says:
    September 22, 2015 at 11:45 pm

    Yes I was a wretch but I have a new identity in Christ don’t you? In the song it was referring to us as saints then went on to explain what a saint does (i.e. falling down, then getting up). I am a new creation and God’s beloved. Who are you in Christ? Wretched or forgiven? Rejected or Restored? Who does Christ say you are? His friend, brother/sister, dearly loved, of much value, precious.

  239. joycemb says:
    September 23, 2015 at 8:56 am

    When building up is futile then the wise thing is to let-go. I’m still learning. The hard part for me is the feeling of guilt I have when rejected. My past still comes ’round to haunt me; that old wretched devil. ( speaking of Satan, literally here, not you Pooh). I suppose Pooh that as I am still learning maybe you are too? Will have to think about that and talk to our Lord about it.
    Have a good day.

  240. poohpity says:
    September 23, 2015 at 10:05 am

    I have never insinuated anything different other than I am still a student sitting at the Good Teacher’s feet. Yes rejection can cause very ugly feelings to pop up leading to attacking those who have rejected us in self defense but Jesus did not reject us. After all isn’t that who really matters in the grand scheme of things. Does building up included jumping to conclusions or pointing out faults and judgements even if they aren’t true? That seems more in line with trying to destroy. So is building up futile if it actually has never been attempted when a grudge is embedded within a heart and revenge is actually the real desire.

  241. joycemb says:
    September 23, 2015 at 10:18 am

    I think that sometimes “jumping to conclusions or pointing out faults and judgements” are my only defense against the indefensible. But, still learning.

    Trusting God to show me the better way.

  242. poohpity says:
    September 23, 2015 at 10:50 am

    Hasn’t He already shown a better way? Those are not defenses those are attacks and abuses bent on destruction. If there is a sincere heart bent on healing a relationship it will be very obvious otherwise it is just blowing smoke to deceive others into thinking one is not what their actions, words show and what the reality truly is. If our actions and words have pure motives then one does not need to defend them or ourselves, or make excuses or blame our behaviors on others.

  243. joycemb says:
    September 23, 2015 at 11:05 am

    One doesn’t always WANT to heal a relationship that’s not going to be healed. Discernment is key. Frustration is the beginning of wisdom. Sometimes there is real purity in being enough to know that some things just aren’t going to change.

  244. joycemb says:
    September 23, 2015 at 11:06 am

    Letting go and moving on is the way of peace, often times.

  245. foreverblessed says:
    September 24, 2015 at 7:22 am

    Hello Narrow, I had forgotten that is was you who went to the river, desperate for the Help of God. So you have dealt with this problem before! Great, you can do it again, with God’s help.
    By the way, what happened to your ex, I have forgotten that too. Can we still pray for him, and ask God to bless him, with His Spirit of Peace, and with His Spirit of Love?

  246. foreverblessed says:
    September 24, 2015 at 7:25 am

    I should have said, awesome this problem with which you have dealt! Really impressive. Such a huge stumbling block, and God has been your Helper.
    Psalm 116:3-7
    Be at rest once more, O my soul,
    for the Lord has been good to you.

    May God help each one of us much and much more

  247. narrowpathseeker says:
    September 24, 2015 at 1:33 pm

    Foreverblessed, I posted on the new subject before I read this. My ex passed away in Jan of 2014. I appreciate your prayers and concern. Thank you..
    I have prayed about this problem here with Pooh many times…I believe at it is time for me to just shake the dust off my feet. As I said in my last post on the new subject, I will continue to pray for everyone here…and some other friends will let me know if there are special needs for prayer for anyone here…Keep your beautiful spirit up and glowing. Love Pearl

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