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The Wonder of a Tree

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RiverTree

A tree doesn’t need to look busy to get a lot done. Without apparent effort, it makes shade and oxygen while filtering the air of carbon monoxide. Without going anywhere, its branches slow erosion by breaking rainfall with its leaves even as it holds soil in place with its roots. Without conscious effort to make a name for itself, a tree beautifies the landscape, increases property values, and inspired Poet Joyce Kilmer to write, “Poems are made by fools like me, but only God can make a tree.”

Like a tree, the wonder of our life is that our place is God’s space.

A prisoner learned this before we did. Visibly, and for extended periods of time, Paul seemed to be “going nowhere”.  Yet even in the custody and confinement of Rome,  (that he thought of as being a prisoner of Christ), he wrote,

When I think of all this, I fall to my knees and pray to the Father, 15 the Creator of everything in heaven and on earth. 16

I pray that from his glorious, unlimited resources he will empower you with inner strength through his Spirit.

17 Then Christ will make his home in your hearts as you trust in him. Your roots will grow down into God’s love and keep you strong.

18 And may you have the power to understand, as all God’s people should, how wide, how long, how high, and how deep his love is.

19 May you experience the love of Christ, though it is too great to understand fully.

Then you will be made complete with all the fullness of life and power that comes from God.

20 Now all glory to God, who is able, through his mighty power at work within us, to accomplish infinitely more than we might ask or think….” (Eph 3:14-20)

Note: while looking for a picture, I found this one taken years ago during a quiet day on the river. Hadn’t noticed until now how the stillness of the moment created it’s own mystical hint of something that God alone can do.


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189 Responses to “The Wonder of a Tree”

  1. foreverblessed says:

    Indeed Mart, it is a beautifull picture!
    Mystical, just as the scriptures from Ephesians that you give here!
    No matter how much I think about them the depth of what is said there, I cannot get. It is as Jeff was saying, my mind keeps wandering of.
    Then I have to remember that I live under the New Covenant:
    God promises to do His part, and He promises to do my part, when I keep looking up to Jesus!
    Isa 45:22(KJV)
    That is also mystical thing, I look up, and the Life of Jesus flows through me.
    But God gave an example that we understand:
    The Israelites that were sick and dying, the ones that looked to the snake on the pole were healed.
    This still literally happens when we have our eyes on Jesus!
    Keep looking up!

  2. SFDBWV says:

    Trees
    Sergeant Joyce Kilmer
    165th Infantry (69th New York), AEF
    (Born December 6 1886, killed in action near Ourcy, July 30 1918)

    “I think that I shall never see
    A poem as lovely as a tree.

    A tree whose hungry mouth is prest
    Against the earth’s sweet flowing breast;

    A tree that looks at God all day,
    And lifts her leafy arms to pray;

    A tree that may in summer wear
    A nest of robins in her hair;

    Upon whose bosom snow has lain;
    Who intimately lives with rain.

    Poems are made by fools like me,
    But only God can make a tree.”

    Please enjoy, I always do as well.

    Steve

  3. saled says:

    Mart says, “Like a tree, the wonder of our life is that our place is God’s space.” We are all here in God’s space, people, animals, trees. And we are all connected more than we realize. I’m not sure how long ago it was that someone discovered how important trees are to the air we breath. And now we are learning that trees communicate with each other. It seems that oak trees all decide when to put out a meager crop of acorns and when to put out a bumper crop. Having worked as a groundskeeper, I noticed that some years there would be so many acorns that you could not walk under the tree without falling, so many that the squirrels could not possibly eat them all, ensuring that some would be left to grow. And then some years it is difficult to find even a few acorns, helping to keep the squirrel population in balance. The picture of the trees with their reflection captures some of this magic in the space that we share.

  4. SFDBWV says:

    The best John Travolta movie I have seen (in my opinion) was the little movie “Phenom”. One of those obscure works of literature that spoke volumes of both nature and human nature.

    John could hear the trees communicate.

    Another favorite of mine is the scientific reality of trees reaction to predators.

    When caterpillars begin to infect a tree it will change its chemical configuration so that it doesn’t taste good to its invader; it knows it is under attack. But amazingly trees in the same vicinity not yet invaded by the caterpillar also changes in the same was as a defense against the possibility of infestation. The trees in question do not touch each other either by branch or root, yet there is a communication that takes place somehow.

    Because we are so busy rushing past life we don’t take time to stop and learn from all of the other living things God placed on earth with us. And their importance in our lives.

    Once a person is rooted and stationary, sometimes against their will, they are finally able to take time to think about life and all of its meanings, especially their eternal condition and then perhaps their journey then begins to find God who has always been there all along, just not noticed.

    Steve

  5. SFDBWV says:

    Saled it seems we bumped heads in thought and in posting.

    I have noticed that in dry years trees put out that bumper crop of mast you speak of. They sense the dry season as a danger of dying and so put out huge numbers of seed to ensure their continuing as a species. Whereas in wetter years their energy is used to grow.

    Hope all is well in Maine.

    Steve

  6. poohpity says:

    The wonder of our God. It seems to be a battle coming to a place of rest or just trust in God working His mighty miracles in us. Letting go of trying so hard to change which seems to be just the human condition but laying my life down to Him to do what he does best in helping us grow. Who would have thought that by experiencing, understanding and knowing Christ’s love for us we can be made complete with all the fullness of life.

    Just as the tree grows where it is planted and as it’s root grows down deeper into the soil the stronger it gets as does our trust in God growing deeper the stronger our faith becomes until we find that place of rest and trust no more striving because we know God is at work in us. Phil 2:13 NLT

  7. poohpity says:

    I do not know if I can wrap my mind, as finite as it is, to think that trees talk to each other but I can believe that the One who spoke them into being and controls the weather and everything else in this world has the ability to even regulate the seed and the fruit that the tree produces.

  8. joycemb says:

    Psalm 52:8

  9. oneg2dblu says:

    The wonder of a tree to me it that it is created to always expand, grow, and produce, just like the rest of His Creation, even the church.
    God certainly used the tree to represent many things in His Word. From the tree of life and the tree of knowledge which He elected to place in the middle of His Garden, to using many verses with trees as a symbol, expressing how the blind man when first cured saw men to be like trees, and even using a tree to hang His Son upon for all the world’s sin, thus, upon a tree, His Greatest Sacrifice for our sin.

    So great is this trees builtin need to expand, grow, and produce, that one must prune it severely, restrict its growing ground, or diet severely, and retrain it appropriately just to keep it from doing so.

    Yet, in the Lord, according to some, we are supposed to accomplish all that in rest?

    To me, the only time a tree fully ever rests is when it also dies. Cut any tree to the core and the only thing you will find is it’s rings of life, some slower growing then others, but always growing, expanding, and producing, until it drys up and dies.

    I leave the rest of the story to be completed by to those who only rest.

    Even our trusting in the Promises of God take a work, it is called faith, even maintaining the faith takes work, it is called relationship, and so does expanding His Church, take work.

    It is the call for workers that are few, not the ever growing expanding producing fields that are already white to harvest.

    Just thinking…
    Gary

  10. oneg2dblu says:

    Interesting verse that pooh shares, as an example of rest, put the verb I see is the word, “do.”
    I especially liken to the verse that says, “I can (do) all things in Christ who strengthens me.”
    I’ve done strength training with many clients over many years, and although there is a rest which must take place to produce the most growth/strength, their is also a lot of work one must do!
    Sorry, if I only seem to see the work parts right now, but, I was just taught today a lesson from Joshua 17 about how not recognizing the fullness of your, “one allotment,” is because the trees of the forest needed to have the work of clearing, before the full amount of what you already have been given, can be seen, and that, awaits your getting your hands involved in the clearing out, making room, cutting new paths, from which we then can expand, or grow.

    I stretched out my tent pegs a little and attended the Elevation Church in my area today for my first time, and the message was very powerful.

    It represented to me, that clearing out the forest trees was all apart of an expanding of our ability to see how much we have already received.

    Going home to rest now. :)

  11. jeff1 says:

    To everything there is a season, for myself I have seen so much hatred and violence that all I can do Gary is rest. Each of us must choose when we need rest or when we need to act as the spirit moves us.

    What ever will be, will be, the future is not ours to see but I can trust God with that future.

    I being a thinker got myself so anxious that I stopped being able to sleep for I worried about everything under the sun. I suffered episodes of psychosis due to this and remain on medication to stop them.

    If I never believed in hell then I did after having these episodes. It was a dear friend who helped me through those times by assuring me that God was with me in my trials and just to say the Lord’s prayer and be at peace.

    I am at a season of finding peace with God because I had let myself and others steal that peace by allowing my mind to wander.

    I am not in a good place to trust on my own understanding but God has put enough good people in my path whom I do trust for they have proven to be trustworthy by their actions.

    I believe remaining faithful is all God asks of me, and at this moment in time, it is that faith that steadies my wandering, to focus on Him, with hope for a brighter future to come as He promises it will.

  12. fadingman says:

    Isn’t it interesting that even though we are to bear fruit for God, Jesus never commands us to do so? Instead He said, “abide in Me”, for only through our abiding in Him will fruit appear.

  13. jeff1 says:

    Abide with me: fast falls the eventide;
    the darkness deepens; Lord with me abide:
    when other helpers fail and comforts flee,
    help of the helpless, O abide with me.

    I need thy presence every passing hour;
    what but thy grace can foil the tempter’s power?
    Who, like thyself, my guide and stay can be?
    Through cloud and sunshine, Lord, abide with me.

    I fear no foe, with thee at hand to bless;
    ills have no weight, and tears no bitterness.
    Where is death’s dark sting? where, grave, thy victory?
    I triumph still, if thou abide with me.

    Hold thou thy cross before my closing eyes;
    shine through the gloom, and point me to the skies;
    heaven’s morning breaks, and earth’s vain shadows flee;
    in death, in life, O Lord, abide with me.

  14. street says:

    dear mart your pic reminded me of a video i saw that has great repercussion both physically and spiritually when man thinks they know better. i found the video on YouTube under the search,”result of wolves being introduced back into America”

    this the link,”https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q”

    the hand of God is indeed a mystery. He wants his children healthy and holy. i think in love too, for nothing. a reoccurring theme in the Bible. that theme starts in Genesis and is apparent with abraham and job.

    the theme of tying up the strong man before plundering his house comes to mind too.

  15. oneg2dblu says:

    I guess it all comes down to this…
    If the Lord says for you to rest, rest.
    If the Lord gives you the Gift of Helps, help.
    If the Lord says you are an eye to the body, see.
    If an ear, hear.

    If He says to you, “Go into all the world, Baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost,” then…

    Did you not know I would be in my Father’s House, doing my Father’s business?

    My mother and my brothers are those who hear my Father’s words and do what He says…

    Test me on this and see if the storehouses will pour out upon you a return, more than you can store up for yourself.

    Do not worry…

    All those themes, and all different.

  16. poohpity says:

    Matthew 11:28-29 NLT “Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls.” The wonder of abiding in Christ.

  17. street says:

    A tree doesn’t need to look busy to get a lot done. Without apparent effort, it makes shade and oxygen while filtering the air of carbon monoxide. Without going anywhere, its branches slow erosion by breaking rainfall with its leaves even as it holds soil in place with its roots. Without conscious effort to make a name for itself, a tree beautifies the landscape, increases property values, and inspired Poet Joyce Kilmer to write, “Poems are made by fools like me, but only God can make a tree.”

    only God can make a life, we were born in sin and death.

    as for the tree it looks like it is resting to me. i have heard the wind actually moves moister and nutrients up the tree through motion. as for the wind, if the tree never experiences it, it will eventual fall over from it’s own weight.

  18. street says:

    1 Timothy 4
    …but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.9 It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance. 10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope…..

    we labor in Christ in faith, we labor in Christ in a sure hope, we labor in Christ in love. even as a prisoner.

    we do not labor in the flesh!! we are planted in Christ and His Word is planted in us.

    even though we live in perishable bodies it is what God has chosen for us to labor, with our eyes fixed beyond the horizon. sure it is labor, who hopes for what he already has? we do know Gods Word is a sure thing. find your joy in it! love conquers all!

  19. jeff1 says:

    God’s love conquers all, our love has boundaries but God’s love knows no bounds.

  20. poohpity says:

    Discover The Word is teaching on this same passage of scripture this week.

    Yes Viv, God’s love has no bounds. Paul’s prayer is to know this love and to live in it’s wonder helping us to understand God.

    Today this is so what I needed as I woke up questioning this in remembering the 6 million Jews that were tortured, mangled, starved and treated like less than human during the Holocaust.

    I am having a crisis of faith and such a troubled heart right now. Those who call themselves Christians have such ugliness for people that are different than them and yes our love does seem to have boundaries for only those who think alike, act alike and feel alike and all others are excluded and hated. I pray to never be like that.

  21. oneg2dblu says:

    We are mixing words like rest and work thinking they can only be opposing each other, but we all who know the Lord also rest in Him, even if we are the actual laborers who are being called to do His work.

    It is not about only folding your hands and being idle, it is about having the burdens we once carried alone and without Christ, now bridled to Him, that He may take upon Himself that load.

    But if we are yoked to Him then it does not mean we only find rest, we must also follow where He leads us, and that means as we remain yoked, we also are gifted and equipped to, “Go!”

    To go, to grow, to serve, to thrive, and to live a life that is acceptable to Him as well.

    To love, honor, and obey.

    Be Blessed, Gary

  22. oneg2dblu says:

    Gotta get ready for work now!
    Gary

  23. poohpity says:

    It seems that only you Gary are mixing those words without an understanding of what it means to rest in Christ.

    This is the insight from ODB today;
    “Today’s Scripture passage ends with one of the most well-known and beloved phrases in the Bible: “Be still, and know that I am God” (v. 10). The Hebrew word translated “be still” can also be translated “become helpless,” “collapse,” “cease,” “fall limp,” and “relax.” The sense is to stop striving. So Psalm 46 could be translated, “Relax, and know that I am God.” Transformation, deliverance, and resurrection are all works of God; we just need to relax and acknowledge who He is.”

  24. poohpity says:

    That does not mean we do nothing in fact we do all kinds of good deeds because of who we are in Christ. What it does mean is that we do not have to do anything to earn God’s love or earn our salvation or to keep it. God has provided it all and that then effects how we live and what we do.

  25. narrowpathseeker says:

    Gary, I hope you are having a good day at work and are laughing, smiling, and just having a Blessed day as I am. I haven’t time right now, but this morning my devotional covered something that was later enlarged by scripture to me and somehow I knew it would fit into the blog today and I think it supports some of your views as well. I will try to articulate my thoughts and post them later on this evening. May we all be Blessed with sight and hearing of the heart.

  26. jeff1 says:

    I did not mean I would rest in the context that I would be idle but that my mind needed rest and I had found peace in knowing Christ understands my struggle and I can be assured that I am forgiven, it is spiritual rest as opposed to physical rest.

  27. oneg2dblu says:

    narrowpathseeker… thank you.
    I really have articulated as best I can with the tools I have available to me.

  28. oneg2dblu says:

    jeff1… I know exactly what you meant when you said, rest.
    Being at peace with Him, while having a mind stayed on Him.
    Gary

  29. foreverblessed says:

    We had discussions years ago, about coming to rest in Christ:
    So, you do not come out of bed?
    And no brushing of teeth?
    I like it what Jeff said: it is about a spiritual rest.
    We give up the hope that we ourselves are trustworthy.
    Like Peter, who had just said: I will not leave you Jesus, and the next thing he does, is failing on Jesus.
    What a failure, this had to be, so that Peter would nor trust himself, but his faith would only be in Jesus, the Only One to be trusted.

  30. oneg2dblu says:

    Thank you pooh, funny how when I say work, you seem to hear strive.

    Your turning thoughts on work verses rest to another point, an instruction on striving, that one can not earn God’s love, or work for your salvation, or ever lose your salvation.

    Good redirect… although I was not going to those places in my mind, but you have.

    Striving to me, is the work of the empty, lonely, guilty flesh, the work of the uninformed, the deceived, those who follow false teaching, those who believe in vain.

    Those who strive are like empty tents who do not possess the Holy Spirit, they do not understand the Holy Spirit would never prompt one to strive.

    Would He?

  31. oneg2dblu says:

    PS Obedience should not ever be considered to be striving!

  32. poohpity says:

    I thought we were talking about the topic which is about God’s work in us(read the above scripture). I must have misunderstood. To me it is not about my obedience which lends one to boast in their work and abilities but it is Christ’s work within us that enables us. (Eph 2:10 NLT; Hebrews 13:21 NLT) So I totally do not know how we got back unto your obedience Gary again when we were giving glory to God for His wondrous work that HE does within us as He lives in/for us and our roots grow down deep into HIM.

    Would He want us to give glory to God or let everyone know how obedient we are to get glory? If that is the case what about the times we fail in our obedience which if anyone is totally honest with themselves is many times then what happens?

    I will bow out because as usual it always comes back to man’s performance and not on God. Obviously I have totally misunderstood the topic.

  33. oneg2dblu says:

    and don’t forget my words also, which you totally misunderstood.

    “but we all who know the Lord also rest in Him, even if we are the actual laborers who are being called to do His work.”

    How difficult is that language for your ears?

    Why is it always, according to you, that I am placed as the odd man out, off topic, out of context, without understanding, and everybody else which you include in your “we,” understand?

    According to my interpretation of the word,

    If one boasts about their obedience, their works, even their giving to others and such, all the reward they will ever get will only come from man.

    We are not to let the left hand know what the right is doing!

    I speak of receiving gifts, and you hear only boasting?
    I speak of works, and you only hear striving?
    I speak of resting in the Lord, and being called to do His works, and you hear only, and your convert it to… man’s performance and not on God?

    Since when has any obedience been linked only to a man’s performance, and not about God?

    John 15:10
    “If you obey my commands you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.”

    You ask… “Would He want us to give glory to God or let everyone know how obedient we are to get glory?”

    John 15:8
    “This is my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.”

    We can each add verses all day long, but we never seem to settle, resolve, or turn off, the constant drip.

    Drip, drip, drip….

  34. oneg2dblu says:

    Good night…

  35. poohpity says:

    Gary you are not the odd man out in fact you fit in quite well on here. Just another thought what is the command Jesus gave to be obedient to in John 15?

  36. joycemb says:

    I just read this quote from John Pavlovitz and like it a lot:

    In life, it’s important to know when to stop arguing with people– and simply let them be wrong.

  37. foreverblessed says:

    Well, I come from a ‘doing’ church, a church who could net get in their message: Come to Me, and I will give you rest.
    As they would preach obedience.
    It is the same bible, same words we read.
    But Mart has often talked about it here: what is in a mans mind so he is.
    My old church could not comprehend: Rest

    I found a scripture about that, what did describe my old church fantastically!

    Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people,
    to whom He said,
    “This is the resting-place, let the weary rest”
    and, “This is the place of repose”-
    but they would not listen.
    So then, the word of the Lord to them will become:
    Do and do, do and do, rule on rule;
    a little here a little there-
    Isa 28:11-13

    Till they het so tired, and worn out, and finally will cry out to enter that Rest!

  38. SFDBWV says:

    Ephesians 3:14-21 KJV

    : 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    : 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named.
    : 16 That He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man.
    : 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
    : 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
    : 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God.
    :20 Now unto Him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
    : 21 Unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen

    Not generating controversy, just showing why I prefer the KJV. Aside from sounding more familiar to me, it speaks differently to me.

    Either version is the subject Mart has offered in that by being rooted and grounded in Christ’s love we are more closely able to begin to understand the magnitude of what Jesus has done for us and offers us if we just believe and allow Him to have sway in our hearts and minds.

    And be at rest.

    35 degrees under cloudy skies.

    Steve

  39. foreverblessed says:

    What a wonderful message that is:
    “I pray that out of His glorious riches He may strengthen you with power through His Spirit in your inner being.”

    God calling of today speaks of this close contact too:
    ” Never forget that real healing of body, mind, and spirit comes from within,
    from the close loving contact of your spirit with My Spirit.

    But unto you that fear My Name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings. Mal 4:2″

    How wonderful that close contact with God is, how deep and wide and long the healing goes, when we come to Him, and sit at His feet, being strengtened while we sit there.
    What a glorious moment!
    May we have them each day more and more!

  40. poohpity says:

    Can you just imagine spending a life time trying to comprehend the love of God? His unconditional, all inclusive love that knows no boundaries. I so desire to seek, search and understand that I have spent years trying to grasp it. Sadly I still do not understand all that it is but I hope to never give up learning. I can not wrap my mind around it but I do know that it is that love that changes us. It is that love that covers a multitude of sin and brings us into eternity. Is there anything that I can do to make God love me anymore than He already does?, no!! But there are things I can do to show how grateful I am for it by giving away what I have experienced so far.

  41. oneg2dblu says:

    foreverblessed… I wonder how you now receive the God at Eventide message for 2-23?
    Do, do do, or rest, relax, and repose?
    Just thinking….

  42. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… here’s the very same verses in my old NIV…

    Ephesians 3: 14-21
    14 “For this reason I kneel before the Father 15 from whom his whole family in heaven and here on earth derives its name.
    16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with the power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you being rooted and established in love, 18 may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19 and know this love that surpasses knowledge- that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
    20 Now ti him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his love power that is working within us, 21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus through all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.”

    Almost the same message to me….so, I can equally not cause controversy and find rest in the NIV.
    Gary

  43. poohpity says:

    Does it say, “according to his love power that is working within us” or “according to his power that is at work within us”? I have never noticed it ever saying “love power” in any translation before.

  44. SFDBWV says:

    Two things always happen for me when I enter into praise and worship of God; the devil flees and I enter into a joy and raptured emotion that is hard put to words.

    Maybe best just to moan and groan than try and express it.

    Seen a little blip on the internet the other day about the lunar astronauts hearing a singing sound when orbiting the dark side of the moon. I was immediately reminded of how in Scripture that the stars sing.

    And it causes me to wonder what wonderful music the trees make as they silently raise their arms toward heaven.

    Some very specially blessed people can hear the sunrise and feel that joyous emotion of being close to God.

    And perhaps feel the kiss of God in the spring rain upon their face.

    Or even see the face of God in the smile of a child.

    Whatever you seek you will find.

    Steve

  45. joycemb says:

    20 “Now all glory to God, who is able, through his mighty power at work within us, to accomplish infinitely more than we might ask or think….”

    Resting in Him today….

  46. oneg2dblu says:

    POOH…I am away from my bible right now, but You’ve got me thinking about that love power thing, so I’ll revisit that verse and see.
    For now though, it still resonates closely to the others, as there is real power in His Love.
    Blessings

  47. oneg2dblu says:

    joyce… I love you post about ending arguments, how very
    fitting.
    Gary

  48. joycemb says:

    FYI I think my email has been hacked so changed the password. Thinking others here should do the same. Blessings Joyce

  49. poohpity says:

    Gary, don’t you trust me to share the truth with you? I gave a copy pasted passage from the NIV, as did Mart, Steve, Joyce and others all different translations but none of them said “love power”. Can you name just one time when I have falsely copied scripture or that it said something other than what it said? I would not ever purposely lead anyone astray and when I do not know something it does not bother me at all to say so. Can you name one time that I have even lied or twisted scripture? I have nothing to prove to anyone here so what would be the point? :-(

  50. joycemb says:

    His power is love based I believe. “God is love” I John

  51. oneg2dblu says:

    Hello all.. I’m home now and just checked my bible, the older NIV translation, it does not say love power, is says only power.

    I stand corrected.

    Please if you can understand that I am only human and have made an error when I was typing those verses this morning.

    Pooh, I never said you were wrong, I just said, I was away from my bible and would revisit the verse. (PERIOD!)

    So, you have not twisted anything other than to be holding a false presumption that I did not trust you.

    I do trust, however, that no one here has led astray by my mistake in my posting of love power.

    I also can not say that anyone else here has intentionally twisted scripture to lead others astray, but, typos are what they are, and I made one today.

    PS Everybody gets a turn at being less than perfect in all we do.

    Thanks, Gary

  52. joycemb says:

    Gary, I never even read what your wrote, I tend to skim over subjects that have been discussed more than once or twice. When I post it’s usually my own “bunny trail” I happen to be on at the time triggered by significant words. That’s me in my older age and declining mental ststus. I’m not siding for or against anyone here. still learning..

  53. joycemb says:

    status! The synapses are wearing down due to over firing most of my life. But still trying to learn as much as I can about the marvelous God I serve until I see him in heaven.

  54. oneg2dblu says:

    joyce… I was just attempting to show the NIV version that I have at my disposal, compared to Steve’s KJV, and when I was typing, I lost my place and added the word love in the text of Ephesians 3:20.

    Then, came from pooh, some questioning of my wording.
    That’s it.

    No accusations about her were levied at that posting, or my initial response to her.

    I made an error, which apparently pooh claims she has never made, so she has brought my error to light, and was questioning whether I trusted her or not.

    Where that all came from is beyond me, you’ll have to ask her, if you care to have that answer.

    It must come from within her.
    Gary

  55. joycemb says:

    Ya some have different senses of humor :-)

  56. oneg2dblu says:

    joyce… I reread my same post myself on the smaller screen of my web-book earlier and I missed the love power wording in that reread.

    So, the only thing I could do, was to say, I would reread the text from the word itself when I got home.

    There it was more clearly revealed to me, I had made an error.

    Have I ever made an error before? Yes!
    Will I ever make another again? Yes!

    Come Jesus!

  57. joycemb says:

    If we were perfect, or even thought we were we would be delusional and LOST! Glad you are found by Jesus :-)

  58. street says:

    personally i love copy and paste.

  59. SFDBWV says:

    One of those things I have read from other sojourners was that they had thought that the things of nature such as grass and flowers and trees exit in heaven as well as on earth.

    I suppose part of that concept comes from the wording found in the creation story whereas it is stated that “the Lord God *planted* a garden eastward in Eden;” (Genesis 2:8 KJV)

    And of course is the statement found in Revelation 22:2 KJV whereas it is said “ and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.”

    Nations are the families of people, the healing is for people and it comes from the tree of life.

    33 degrees and light rain

    Steve

  60. jeff1 says:

    Thinking of how when I was very unwell I picked up on what people said to me even though they did not intend to offend.
    I remember asking my brother-in-law about a tree one day and he went on to say how much good that tree was to the environment and how it served God.

    I remember thinking at that time that God does not need me it is I who need Him for being a person who wanders I find that it is God who steadies me when I find I have no where to run He is steadfast.

    Although I would not wish anyone psychosis because I was delusional and aware that hell existed, I learned a lot about my adversary.

    Knowing I was under a spiritual attack my friend told me what to do, she said, remember, that Jesus had defeated Satan so no matter how afraid I was just repeat the Lord’s prayer and know that Satan had no hold over me.

    I think many people do not know when they are under spiritual attack for if it had not been for my friend I would not have for she had been biblicaly taught while I had not.

    To my way of thinking Satan attacks the weakest in Society like those with addictions and illnesses and God is with me when I call on Him so the struggle is within me but the victory is God’s. I may loose the battle but Jesus has won the war.

  61. oneg2dblu says:

    street says: “personally i love copy and paste.”

    Me too, but, first you have to have the actual content you can copy and paste.

    I did not have that version of the word to copy and paste, so, i had to do it the old fashioned way, word for word.

    That takes time which I really didn’t have and I knew it but tried my best anyhow. Gotta go to Work!
    Gary

  62. poohpity says:

    It seems the very soil we are planted in to grow is God’s love for us, a love that is hard for me to understand because my love has so many conditions I am not able to take it all in but that does not stop His faithfulness to us. Love is not a feeling it is an action, one that unless we are becoming closer to Him we may not even have a glimpse of it.(John 3:16; Romans 5:8; 1 John 3:1, 4:9-10,19)

  63. poohpity says:

    The very core of what we are rooted and grounded in and what drew me to God in the very first place was learning of that great love. How easily it can slip away by focusing around us and not looking up to the very One who created and explained what love is for us to experience it in our relationship with Him.

  64. jeff1 says:

    I would agree Pooh that love is an action not a feeling and many use the words but do not follow up on them. My father never used the words to me but I never had any doubt that he loved me because his actions spoke louder.

  65. poohpity says:

    Viv, my dad was like that too but whenever he looked at me I could see it in his eyes and the things he did also spoke it to me also. That is what I am finding with God too. The things He has done for me speak so much louder than words but to me it is also nice to hear.

  66. street says:

    Then you will be made complete with all the fullness of life and power that comes from God.

    this really caught my attention.

    like work and everything else we are looking to be done.

    looks like a wonderful opportunity.

  67. joycemb says:

    Yes street I’d like to rest in that knowledge. I think I will work on it starting now and remind myself every day. What a future we have today AND tomorrow!

  68. oneg2dblu says:

    Thank God that we do not have to know it all, or have all the answers, because our walk must be by faith, not by knowing and knowing all, and knowing all the answers.
    That’s God’s territory… He is All Knowing

    If the bible says there are two trees, one on each side of the river flowing from the throne, each called the tree of life, then who are we to doubt that?
    If their leaves heal the nations, great!
    Who are we to doubt that?

    If it says there is a book called the book of life and all who’s names are written in it, shall never die. Great!
    We can all accept that, can’t we?
    That’s the easy stuff.

    But, do we also accept the harder stuff as well, you know, the do not add to, or take away any of these words found in Revelation…

    Then, we must believe that there will be those who do not get in, and we must believe those words written about them, those that call them by their names, as well.

    Those who are called dogs, and the like …
    Who are we to doubt that?

    Just thinking…

  69. street says:

    gary said,”Those who are called dogs, and the like …
    Who are we to doubt that?”

    i like to think of myself as a dog eating crumbs from the Master’s table.

    thinking this grace and mercy i have received is bottomless ….then i can begin to love like this too!

  70. street says:

    gary the light of Christ’s Gospel is greater than the darkness. it is personal…. need to love

    He said love one another like I have loved you.

    John 13:34 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

    John 15:12 “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

    does this end conflict? i don’t think so, the Book of Acts confirms this. learning to live in the love of Christ. the victory is going to be oh so sweet.

    the word that caught my attention in my last post was the “complete”.

  71. foreverblessed says:

    In Discover the Word, this whole week is about this passage of how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ!
    Lovely!
    Eph 3:18-20
    Yes, thanks Street for that -complete-
    ” Now to Him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to His power that is at work within us….

    To think about how good God is for me, but I have always that little voice telling me: God requires something from you.
    Just an agonising, unsett

  72. foreverblessed says:

    Oops, unsettling voice, always wanting me NOT to rest in His immeasurably love.
    That God is just pleased with me, just loves to be around me, that He knocks at my door every day, asking to come in!
    Song of Solomon 5:2-3

    Just to settle deeply in my mind, God wants to sit with me, and enjoy company. Not sitting there with me and telling me to get up and do something for me,
    “it is impossible God just wants to sit with ne, He always requires works, and other wise I will be thrown out and burned.”

    Yes, that is why I need over and over and over to hear of the love of God!

  73. SFDBWV says:

    If you take the time to really think about a tree it is quite an amazing organism.

    They do not have to do anything in order to garnish God’s love or favor as so many people think they have to do.

    Each growing season is recorded in their members and shown in their rings.
    They are creatures that give life to everything around them including the feeding of themselves from the discarded growth of themselves that fill the forest floor and give nutrient to themselves and a multitude of other creatures.

    Their seed is both food for others and by being so are assured of reproducing their kind, as ordered in their creation.

    From them we find a multitude of uses. From their leaves we find healing, from their saps we can both get maple syrup as well as turpentine. From their bark we can either tan leather or make cork, certainly without them there would be no paper.

    We can cook our meals because of them as well as build the houses we live in.

    The tree often gives up its life for our use in agreement with God’s will, just as Jesus gave up His life for our salvation and we should give up ours for the care of others.

    Without the tree there would have been no cross.

    Many poems are written along that thought.

    When looked at closely entire ecosystems exist by living on and with a single tree.

    It was said here years ago by another participant that they had read that Joyce Kilmer wrote his famous poem after seeing the forest decimated by artillery fire between opposing armies.

    I am reminded that in Viet Nam we tried to deforest the jungle with Agent Orange and as a result slowly killed our own troops through the cancer it brought to their lives.

    Fools indeed.

    I am not a “tree hugger” but am able to see how God gave us the gift of the tree and how some of us know how to use it and some abuse it…Just like life.

    29 degrees windy and snowing.

    Steve

  74. jeff1 says:

    As a person who suffers from mental anguish I can tell you that I find it difficult to rest in Christ. It also was so for my mother and brother and I can see myself following in their footsteps.

    I am getting better at coping partly because I am retired and do not have to cope with the same stress that I did when I was at work.

    My faith is what steadies me when I struggle with my demons and it is what I cling to when I find no one else understands me.

    I miss my father whom I depended on so much for support and guidance for I have not met anyone since with the patience, understanding and love for me that he had.

    I am glad that knowing God loves me is not about me feeling fixed or broken because the truth is I feel broken is my destiny, in this life, as it was for my mother and brother, for history does repeat itself, but God’s love has not changed and I know that because my father was in a small token an example of what God’s love should look like when my heart is at one with His. God speed the day!

  75. SFDBWV says:

    Good morning Viv from across the Atlantic.

    One of the life things I have come to understand is that we, each of us are the product of generations past. Simply, we are mom and dad.

    Remember the good qualities of both your mother and father and realize both of those good qualities are present in you.

    Combined with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit we are complete, all we need do is remember that and thank God for every little and big thing that crosses our path.

    While we can rest in our spirituality we are never really at rest as life is full of things that spur us to action.

    Remembering that even though we are mom and dad, we also are very uniquely us. And very special to god.

    Praying you and all here have a blessed day.

    Steve

  76. oneg2dblu says:

    street… yes even dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the Master’s table, that is a great saving verse for “those dogs’ who apparently are in the Master’s house, or under His table.

    It was Revelation 22 that we were discussing though, and I just brought out one of the names from verse 15.

    Revelation 22:15
    “Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murders, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.”

    Who are we to doubt?

    There appears to be many forms of love, and apparently God’s love is immeasurable and knows no bounds, even to the love of those dogs outside, which has been measured by God, and His Justice has been applied to them as well.

    Just thinking…

  77. poohpity says:

    Knowing the Father’s love. For the best showing of that love was laying down humbly His deity taking up a human body and allowing Himself to take our penalty and punishment when we did not in anyway deserve that because He did it while we were still practicing sinning and knowing we would never be sinless. (Romans 5:7-9 NLT)

  78. poohpity says:

    Thinking that when God created all that was created it did not seem for His enjoyment but for the human beings that were created in His likeness. Everything and everyone has purpose. The whole of creation is so intricately and wonderfully made some of it we can see with the naked eye but so much more we are unable to see like the things beneath the skin, how our brain works, micro and macro organisms, things above the earth and below the surface. Everything we would ever need God created then gave us the brains to put it to use. Now the breathe of that love is totally not comprehensible at least for me anyway. After all that all God asked of me was to share that love with others and did not ask me to do it without His help but with it.

  79. poohpity says:

    “He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since he is Lord of heaven and earth, he doesn’t live in man-made temples, 25 and human hands can’t serve his needs—for he has no needs. He himself gives life and breath to everything, and he satisfies every need.” Acts 17:24-25

  80. street says:

    gary said,”“Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murders, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.”

    Who are we to doubt?”

    isn’t this what we once were? i still see dog tendencies in myself when i take my eyes off Jesus.

    gary said,”There appears to be many forms of love, and apparently God’s love is immeasurable and knows no bounds, even to the love of those dogs outside,”

    i think there is many ways of looking at love, but it still is love. it changes not. if it does change it was not love in the first place. paul loved and he did not care what it cost him. i think he knew love and was willing to bear any cost like His Savior. wait for Him and keep looking for Him and don’t stop till you see Him. thinking of the woman and the unjust judge. i’ll keep asking for it.

  81. narrowpathseeker says:

    Joyce, I found this quote, that you posted a few days ago, to shine with Wisdom that could produce much fruit(IMO). Thank you.. I think I am going to print it out, frame, and hang it.

  82. street says:

    gary said,”that is a great saving verse for “those dogs’ who apparently are in the Master’s house, or under His table.”

    the fun part is being invited into His house! the deworming, flea removal, antibiotics and immunization and the exam table were not fun. but over all it was worth it. no one loves me more.

  83. narrowpathseeker says:

    Steve, I hope Spring comes to you very soon and that you get to enjoy the more pleasant uses of the tree. As usual I enjoyed the Wisdom and interesting analogies that you share with us. Thank you.

  84. oneg2dblu says:

    street… down boy, you’re running all through the house with all your attached canine treatment plans.
    But, I’m still speaking of “those dogs” who are not allowed in the house, not allowed for a reason, and having love is not one of them, for they love also, according to the written word, they love to practice evil.
    So they and their evil practice, is kept outside for a reason.
    It is all part of God’s treatment plan for them.

    Only those who’s robes are washed may enter into the house. There are no exceptions according to the written word.
    Apparently God has a set of house rules!

    Gary

    PS I hear flea powder does wonders. :)

    Have a blessed day…

  85. oneg2dblu says:

    street… down boy, you’re running all through the house with all your attached canine treatment plans.
    But, I’m still speaking of “those dogs” who are not allowed in the house, not allowed for a reason, and having love is not one of them, for they love also, according to the written word, they love to practice evil.
    So they and their evil practice, is kept outside for a reason.
    It is all part of God’s treatment plan for them.

    Only those who’s robes are washed may enter into the house. There are no exceptions according to the written word.
    Apparently God has a set of house rules!

    Gary

    PS I hear flea powder does wonders. :)

  86. oneg2dblu says:

    I’ve known a few dogs who can’t wait for the next tree where they will be all to happy to lovingly leave their scent trail.
    I remember picking up one of my large breed dogs from the vets where he had spent the night in a cage, the first tree we came upon when we walked outside was immediately well watered, in fact he had to change legs midstream, just to get the job done.
    I thought he would never finish.
    I’m sure we all have dog tales, and not tails.
    We also probably have a tree story as well.
    Gary

  87. oneg2dblu says:

    Wow a double post, without using copy and paste. :0

  88. oneg2dblu says:

    Pooh… great verses about God making all things, Lord of Heaven and earth, giving life to all, and he satisfies every need.

    The Short version…

    It very much resembles much of Isaiah 66 where Judgment and Hope are so well defined.

    Where He explains the new heaven and the new earth, and where the treatment plan for those dogs is laid out in even more detail.

    Here’s a part…

    They have chosen their own ways, and they delight in their abominations; so I also will choose harsh treatment for them and will bring upon them what they dread.”

    There is something about a fire that will never be quenched, and the worm that eats them never dies.
    Who are we not to believe that also?
    Gary

  89. poohpity says:

    Gary, it is not just verses to me, I believe that God has had to provide all things, there is no other logical way that everything has come into being and has been maintain since mankind spends most of their time destroying each other and the rest of His beautiful creation. I did not read in Isaiah 66 about a new heaven or earth but that His hands have created the one we have now.

  90. street says:

    gary i think i understand what you are saying about sin never satisfies plus hash treatment. i do not see the new heaven and new earth in Is 66 either even though it is mentioned. i think this is talking about the earth giving birth before the millennial kingdom. similar to valley of dry bones. Israel will enjoy her Messiah. little off subject.

  91. street says:

    gary said,”Apparently God has a set of house rules!”

    the law is for lawbreakers! :)

    Jesus is for the saints.

  92. SFDBWV says:

    Ephesians 3:14-21 KJV

    : 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    : 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named.
    : 16 That He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man.
    : 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
    : 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
    : 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God.
    :20 Now unto Him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
    : 21 Unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen

    An interesting foot note about trees is that if you cut down a pine tree its stump will die and over time decay, whereas a hardwood tree such as an oak or maple when cut down the stump will immediately start shooting up new growth from its roots.

    It takes a lot to kill out a hardwood forest, but a pine forest will kill itself out by choking out the sunlight from each of its neighbors until they all die.

    Am wondering which kind of trees are represented here among us.

    22 degrees and snow. Having plowed last night I was relieved of having not to this morning. God blessed us with only 4 inches instead of all the awful forecasting scenarios.

    Steve

  93. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve says…”Am wondering which kind of trees are represented here among us.”
    My guess would be, ‘All those that God made and wanted to thrive and display His Mighty Works.”
    Gary

  94. oneg2dblu says:

    Yes Street… the law was given to God’s Chosen People, so, yes, the law is for lawbreakers, and for law keepers.

    The House Rules say, those dogs who love and practice evil, are kept outside.

    Have a Blessed Day

  95. poohpity says:

    Rather than asking, “Am wondering which kind of trees are represented here among us.” we could ask ourselves, “What kind of tree do I want to be?”? I want to be the kind of tree that my roots grow down deep and are grounded in the love of God. Drawing my nourishment from Him so that I can understand how great is His love for me and to be open to seeing His wonderful works and grow more dependent on Him and less on what I can do to look good.

  96. poohpity says:

    Also rather than looking for the areas that divide or separate us into different divisions as represented by kinds of trees if we could only be like Paul was in writing to the Ephesians as he prayed for them to know the love of God like he did in that passage of scripture (Eph 3:14-21 NLT) from his knees, bowing to our God. It is hard to look around when we are on our knees, bowing before the Lord showing the love of God by praying for others.

  97. poohpity says:

    I pray for everyone on this blog to grow in their knowledge and understanding of the great love God has for all of you to comprehend how wide, how high, how long and how deep it truly is so you can be filled with the fullness of God. In Jesus’ name, Amen!

  98. poohpity says:

    Psalm 34:18 NIV; Psalm 51:17 NIV; Pslam 147:3 NIV; Isaiah 57:15 NIV

  99. poohpity says:

    Psalm 147:3 NIV I must have written that one wrong.

  100. street says:

    dear jeff, been thinking of what you wrote and was reading my utmost for His Highest today and my thoughts returned to what you wrote. i hope you are comforted and strengthen by the Great Physician and Savior. the title was “our misgivings about Jesus.”

    i like the song that says, turn your eyes upon Jesus and the things of this world will grow strangely dim…

  101. joycemb says:

    “Like a tree, the wonder of our life is that our place is God’s space.”

    Mart I really like this.

  102. jeff1 says:

    Focusing on Jesus keeps my mind free from confusion and I believe one has to do what is right for them for another cannot walk in your shoes!

    I will look it up and thank you Street

    Turn you eyes upon Jesus
    Look full in His wonderful face
    And the things of Earth will grow strangely dim
    In the light of His glory and grace

    Oh soul are you weary and troubled?
    No light in the darkness to see
    There’s a light for a look at the Savior
    And life more abundant and free

    His words shall not fail you, He promised
    Believe and all will be well
    Then go to a world that is dying
    His perfect salvation to tell

    Turn your eyes upon Jesus
    Look full in His wonderful face
    And the things of the Earth will grow strangely dim
    In the light of His glory and grace

    Turn your eyes upon Jesus
    Look full in His wonderful face
    And the things of the Earth will grow strangely dim
    In the light of His glory and grace

    Oh soul are you weary and troubled?
    No light in the darkness to see
    There’s a light for a look at the Savior
    And life more abundant and free

    Turn your eyes upon Jesus
    Look full in His wonderful face
    And the things of the Earth will grow strangely dim
    In the light of His glory and grace

  103. street says:

    dear gary, yes the wild dogs are not aloud in the house. we can do like Jesus did and go out and invite them in?
    have to say this has to be easier than i think it is?! i do understand that some will reject and some will accept. and as i have been brought aware of i can not do this safely on my own or when i feel like it. i just hope i don’t with hold any invitations and not be so proud as to not do all He wants me to do.

  104. street says:

    mart said,”A tree doesn’t need to look busy to get a lot done. ”

    thinking God gets a lot done with out people even noticing. i am so thankful for all He got done on a tree.
    lead the way Lord Jesus.

  105. oneg2dblu says:

    Yes Mart… It is wonderful what a tree accomplishes without any apparent effort.
    Yet, God chose to use men like Paul, who have then made a conscience effort to write to the churches and to be a conduit of God’s words, warnings, and will.
    We are still today being blessed just by reading what effort that one man has made through his written concern for others.

    Just thinking…

  106. jeff1 says:

    I am reading “Our misgivings about Jesus” and see that my doubts spring from my own inferiority.

    “Lord, I have had misgivings about You.
    I have not believed in Your abilities, but only my own.
    And I have not believed in Your almighty power apart from my finite understanding of it.”

    Forgive me Lord, for my deceit that I have been denying to you because of my foolish pride and please help me overcome my pride.

    Thank you Street for your post 11.35 am.

  107. oneg2dblu says:

    street… I appreciate your concern for those dogs, but, lets do as the word says, and lets not add to this book, or take away from it, by our wishful thinking that we can go outside and invite them in.

    “Blessed are those who wash their robes,that hey may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murders, the idolater and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.”

    Let’s look at what the warnings found in the following verses reveal, Revelation 22: 18, 19, 20, 21.

    Am really thinking this is serious, and we should not play around with it.

    Just let the words speak for themselves.

  108. joycemb says:

    I read Revelation to be future prophecy which is why I am so glad someone saw me outside the body of Christ and through the prayers of neighbors and listening to TV preacher Billy Graham my heart was ready to receive Christ as my savior. Yes I was one of those “outsiders” Revelation talks about but thank God we are still in the time of grace!!!! Amen!

    Gary your post is downright scary and a clear misuse of scripture the way I understand scripture but if you read it to be post grace then Lord have mercy on your soul–along with any lost souls or baby Christians you preach to.

  109. street says:

    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

    i have not seen the gates of heaven yet so i don’t think it applies right now. beside God said once you get there you will never leave. Jesus is enough

  110. cbrown says:

    As per Gary’s post 7:10, Rev 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen. Mart included Ephesians 3:16-20 above and they provide light to God”s grace.
    16 I pray that from his glorious, unlimited resources he will empower you with inner strength through his Spirit.

    17 Then Christ will make his home in your hearts as you trust in him. Your roots will grow down into God’s love and keep you strong.

    18 And may you have the power to understand, as all God’s people should, how wide, how long, how high, and how deep his love is.

    19 May you experience the love of Christ, though it is too great to understand fully.

    Then you will be made complete with all the fullness of life and power that comes from God.

    20 Now all glory to God, who is able, through his mighty power at work within us, to accomplish infinitely more than we might ask or think….”

  111. SFDBWV says:

    Ephesians3:14 KJV “For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (When I think of all this, I fall to my knees and pray to the Father, the Creator of everything in heaven and on earth.)

    “For this cause; When I think of all this,”

    For what cause, think of all of what?

    Ephesians 3:1-13
    : 1 “For this cause I Paul the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
    : 2 If you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
    : 3 How that by revelation He made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
    : 4 Whereby when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
    : 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
    : 6 That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel:
    : 7 Wherefore I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of His power.
    : 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
    : 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
    : 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
    : 11 According to the eternal purpose which He purposed in Christ Jesus or Lord:
    : 12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of Him.
    : 13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

    21 degrees with flurries.

    Steve

  112. poohpity says:

    His cause seems to be sharing the Gospel of Christ and to think about the great love God has for us by what happened on the Cross. In considering that we come to think about and understand the immensity of God’s love for the world. That it is not just for the Jews but for all the people of the world and it can not be earned by following the Jewish laws but only through the grace of God found in Christ Jesus.

  113. poohpity says:

    I think if we read each of Paul’s letters as a letter realizing that people put in the chapters and verses it seems for identity purposes but it was one letter. So in the beginning of the letter we find out what the purpose or cause of the letter was.

  114. poohpity says:

    The people of Ephesus worshiped many gods before they came to believe in the one true God so Paul seem to write to encourage them to grow in their knowledge and understanding of the God that they came to believe in. They were before this it seems aware of the spiritual dark forces in the world but not of the God who could stand against those forces. The first three chapters are explaining again to them the supremacy of the Gospel of Christ and who they are in/what they mean to God and the last three chapters seem to be instruction on how to overcome evil, misinformation and how to stand firm in the power of God not their own.

  115. oneg2dblu says:

    jeff1… glad you read Revelation as a future prophesy, that is what it is.
    And, “A thing is, what it is.”

    So, according to that prophesy there will be those who can enter the gates, and those dogs who remain outside.

    That is what it says.

    It is not my prophesy and I did not write it, I only brought it to the table of discussion, for discussion.

    I only bring it to the thinkers here to think about it, and think to myself, it is written for a reason.

    However, being that it is future prophesy, for revelation, to me, it is not speaking about our modern day church, but clearly, those who have washed their robes, are those who have received grace.

    So, we can all extrapolate that grace has taken place prior to its conveyance, without adding to it, or taking away anything from it.

    I can not read to much more into it than that.

    Sorry if that is a scary take on what it actually says.

    Perhaps all revelation that questions our current thinking is scary to us.
    Gary

  116. remarutho says:

    Hello Mart & Friends —

    Mart, you wrote:

    “Like a tree, the wonder of our life is that our place is God’s space.”

    God breathes into being the air, the soil, the water — the tree and you and me. To take up the Letter to the Ephesians is to come to grips with the Apostle Paul bringing the Word of truth to those who bowed down to Artemis, the great goddess of the city, before the Gospel came to them. They did not know where they came from, where they were or where they were going.

    Every soul and heart and mind draws nourishment and receives its very being from what God has made, is making and will make.Ray Stedman, in his discussion of The Book of Revelation, quoted James Russell Lowell:

    “Though the cause of evil prosper,
    Yet ’tis truth alone that’s strong.
    Truth, forever on the scaffold,
    Wrong, forever on the throne.
    Yet that scaffold sways the future,
    And behind the dim unknown,
    Standeth God within the shadows
    Keeping watch above His own!”

    Everything is in God’s hand — and God’s pleasure, it seems to me, streams down upon those who are like trees clinging to the earth and drawing life from it. Trust in God — or in God we trust — even in days like these.

    “Who has measured the waters in the hollow of His hand,
    And marked off the heavens by the span,
    And calculated the dust of the earth by the measure,
    And weighed the mountains in a balance
    And the hills in a pair of scales?” Isaiah 40:12

    “…you will go out with joy
    And be led forth with peace;
    The mountains and the hills will break forth into shouts of joy before you,
    And all the trees of the field will clap their hands.”

    “May you experience the love of Christ, though it is too great to understand fully.” Ephesians 3:19a

    Maru

    48F with light rain in the valley

  117. remarutho says:

    The verse about the trees of the field clapping their hands is Isaiah 55:12. Sorry I didn’t reference it. Maru

  118. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh… so, you and I seem to each see in Paul’s writings, that he was living under the direction and influence of Christ, speaking about the word and will of God, and giving to that group of believers, both warnings and instruction, as the Spirit led him.

  119. oneg2dblu says:

    Can we also agree that his writings are beneficial to the modern church as well?

  120. remarutho says:

    Agreeing over here with your brief outline of the Letter to the Ephesians, Pooh.

    You wrote:

    “The first three chapters are explaining again to them the supremacy of the Gospel of Christ and who they are in/what they mean to God and the last three chapters seem to be instruction on how to overcome evil, misinformation and how to stand firm in the power of God not their own.”

    Both halves are surely for the church in our time.

    Thanks for that! Maru

  121. remarutho says:

    May all here stand as firm as a mighty oak by the stream!
    Hold fast to Jesus! Amen.

  122. joycemb says:

    Thank you Maru :-)

  123. poohpity says:

    Gary, the Holy Spirit is the same as it has always been and will be, as well as the way He works in people’s lives. I think the difference in you and I is I believe and trust in His work in my life to change me and you seem to believe it has more to do with your work and obedience to change you than God.

  124. jeff1 says:

    I would seem to be struggling with my obedience as well and I feel it has to be me that changes that because it is my mind that wanders. There has to be an effort on my part to change so that God can work in my life.

    I have to persevere until there is change in me and I can be the person God wants me to be. I believe I can change but I believe that it must be my will to change and then God will do His part.

  125. foreverblessed says:

    It is good to hear from you again, Maru!
    Thanks for the encouragement!
    I was in Amsterdam today, beautifull quiet wheather!
    Lots of tourists! But I find it a beautifull city! All these van canals, and trees along the water. Trees make a city beautifull! And green lawns.
    So it is spiritually speaking, people who are children of God, who have the Spirit within them, they are like oases in the sedert.

  126. oneg2dblu says:

    So, if obedience is such a curse word to the ever faithful here who somehow always seem to cringe at it, especially if they are already forgiven their disobedience, then what would their current disobedience of ignoring Paul’s word, in their not “making every effort” be _________.
    Oh yeah, living by an effortless faith must mean, you are really actively seeking to be found in more and more of God’s Love and Grace?
    As Paul would say, “Heaven Forbid!”

  127. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh… as usual you have seen only what you want to see in me, but, I’ll say it again as I have before, and will continue to do so, I believe this… “Faith without works is dead.”

    I also believe it was “none other than the great grace teacher Paul, who uttered those five words, which still go ignored by many today who apparently have been wrongly taught, or follow another doctrine?

    Just thinking…

    Gary

  128. poohpity says:

    It depends on what one considers obedience to what. The things that we are given to do; abiding in Christ, feed the hungry, forgive, show grace, show love to others, give shelter, water and clothing, care for the sick, depend on God, pray, believe in Jesus. If we were able to change wouldn’t we do it? The areas that the Lord changed in my life have absolutely come from His work, things that once were appealing to me are no longer appealing etc.. Obedience is wonderful and shows who has our hearts also consider “submission” which is also a hard thing to do especially for controlling people who want to control everything and everyone. Submission is a horrible word to humbly put everything and everyone into God’s hands knowing He is capable.

    If people wanted to be more loving and kind don’t you think they would do it? If people wanted to be gentle, patient, joyful, self controlled and suffer without complaining and grumbling they would do it if they could. Rejoicing in God no matter what circumstances come into our lives that comes from faith and trust and that is not even from us but from God. Just even believing there is a God comes from God.

  129. remarutho says:

    Dear Gary —

    I do not recognize “Heaven forbid.” as anything the Apostle Paul ever said. He did, however, exclaim “May it never be!” several times:

    Romans 3:4, 3:6, 3:31, 6:2, 6:15, 7:7, 7:13, 11:1, 11:11…there are more times he said “May it never be!” — but never mind.

    There is just something about you, Gary, that makes you very dear and precious to Jesus. Just for you, Galatians 3:21.

    Yours in Christ,
    Maru

    PS “Now all glory to God, who is able, through His mighty power at work within us, to accomplish infinitely more than we might ask or think……”

  130. poohpity says:

    From this prayer of Paul the very one who was changed by a meeting with God on the road to Damascus and never to be the same again as are most who meet the the Lord. That is why he wrote;

    We rely on what Christ Jesus has done for us. We put no confidence in human effort, 4 though I could have confidence in my own effort if anyone could. Indeed, if others have reason for confidence in their own efforts, I have even more!

    5 I was circumcised when I was eight days old. I am a pure-blooded citizen of Israel and a member of the tribe of Benjamin—a real Hebrew if there ever was one! I was a member of the Pharisees, who demand the strictest obedience to the Jewish law. 6 I was so zealous that I harshly persecuted the church. And as for righteousness, I obeyed the law without fault.

    7 I once thought these things were valuable, but now I consider them worthless because of what Christ has done. 8 Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ 9 and become one with him. I no longer count on my own righteousness through obeying the law; rather, I become righteous through faith in Christ.[c] For God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith. 10 I want to know Christ and experience the mighty power that raised him from the dead. I want to suffer with him, sharing in his death, 11 so that one way or another I will experience the resurrection from the dead! Philippians 3

  131. poohpity says:

    We think about life differently when we come to believe. God transforms us from people who gave no thought to others to thinking more of them than we do ourselves and gives us a heart of a servant. Romans 12:2

  132. street says:

    maru posted,
    “Though the cause of evil prosper,
    Yet ’tis truth alone that’s strong.
    Truth, forever on the scaffold,
    Wrong, forever on the throne.
    Yet that scaffold sways the future,
    And behind the dim unknown,
    Standeth God within the shadows
    Keeping watch above His own!”

    the cause of evil did seem to prosper on good friday,
    but the truth and will of God was done,
    truth forever payed the price on calvary’s, scaffold,
    forever on the Thrown of David,
    yet the two sticks draw all men to Him,
    yet behind the veil, God revealed.

  133. narrowpathseeker says:

    Gary, these are the verses in Matthew 3:6-12 that I think say to me there IS something that we have to do..like you say…. at least TRYING to be obedient and confessing our failure to do so when appropriate. I see the warnings here just as I see other warnings frequently when reading scripture. That is why I cry unto Him often…”In the Name of Christ Jesus ..have mercy on me” or “Have mercy on us all”

    YES, I believe God will do the work in us, but I also believe that we need to TRY to do our part.

    Anyway Gary…I believe your heart is in serving God and that you are truly concerned about us all here and not just blowing your own trumpet. anyway…these are those verses that I wanted to share and to me confirm that FRUIT is very important to have in ourselves and also to recognize the fruit or lack of it in others…… as in….. we will KNOW them by their fruits… Have a Blessed evening Gary. Pearl

    And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

    7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

    8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

    9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

    10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

    11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

  134. street says:

    narrow posted,”12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

    these are the fruit of the Spirit Love Joy Peace, Patients Kindness Goodness,
    Faithfulness Gentleness Self-control.

    these are not natural to man even though he is capable. they are a work of yielding to the Spirit that is humble and we are not humble by nature. a yielding to the forgiveness, faithfulness, and love of God. we love because He first loved us. to reverse the two is idolatry.

  135. narrowpathseeker says:

    Street, I am painfully aware that we are not humble by nature and that we NEED God to work in us. However, I think we need to do whatever it is that we CAN do for ourselves. I know if I went to help someone that was handicapped in someway, that I would do for them what they couldn’t do for themselves. BUT, if they had use of their hands and could feed themselves I would expect them to put the fork and/or spoon to their own mouth. If I went to help someone clean up after a storm and they sat on the porch reading while I did all the work…I would not be helping for long.. so I think we need to at least TRY to do whatever it is that we can do or at least be WILLING to try.. Of course that may be all wrong but for the time being I am at peace with that belief.

  136. street says:

    dear narrow, i understand what you are saying in some respect. the way i see Jesus’s love in cleaning up my life while still in rebellion on the front porch, reproaching His name and taking pot shots at Him after the mess i made. i was truly His enemy! i am thinking the day you give up loving your enemy is the day you turn your back on Jesus. Jesus did not give up loving me and over time had the most profound effect on me. when i say turn your back on Jesus it is the beginning of going down a road of unforgiveness or disobedience. there is a parable about unforgiveness and it’s outcome is deadly. gary will beat you to death with the law, but Jesus died for you. if Jesus is not merciful and gracious the law will kill us. the law makes us aware of sin and a need for a Savior. the sinless death of Jesus clears our conscience and fulfills God’s requirements of the law. if His love will not change us nothing will. we must make this love known not like the pharisees and scribes.

    as for humility the answer is to deny your self, take up your cross daily and follow Jesus. it helps a lot to spend as much time with Him as you can safely do and still manage the responsibilities He sends your way. as for driving a car you would not close your eyes and pray would you? it helps to keep your mind on what you are doing. what ever you do, do it for Him who loves you. we already have done enough for ourselves and see some pretty interesting and heartbreaking results. pay attention and keep going, His grace is sufficient. i think of Jesus saying, “watch and pray”, He also said, “let us go from here”. in other words follow Him. you follow better when you know Him better. it’s ok training wheels are mandatory. looking forward to flying. one day at a time in God’s space. thanks Dad

  137. oneg2dblu says:

    Pearl… thank you, you have blessed me with your comment.
    Gary

  138. oneg2dblu says:

    street says… “gary will beat you to death with the law”
    But, unfortunately, the law says, “Thou shall not kill,” so, I doubt that if I were foolish enough to actually follow that law, as Christ certainly did, then, I would not beat anyone to death.
    Just thinking…

  139. oneg2dblu says:

    Although, when I was living outside the law, I did violate that commandment, as I killed my own unborn child, and God used that particular event to break me to my core, and lead me back to Him, to repent and be Baptized, first by His Spirit, and then, in the church, by those who willfully obey, doing their commanded work.
    Praise God!

  140. street says:

    “For God to have restored sinful people to the state of Adam would have been pointless, because they would still have had the ability to sin and would have done so at the first opportunity, just as Adam did. Why go through all that again? Raising those who are saved to the state where they can no longer sin may seem like a deprivation of their freedom, but that is true only if they are perceived as autonomous beings who have been given something that in effect becomes part of their nature. Perhaps this can happen only by an infusion of grace, but the believer’s dependence on Christ is not like a sick man’s dependence on medicine. The sick person takes his medicine in order to be cured, and when that happens, he stops taking it because he no longer needs it. The Christian never gets to that state. To be united to Christ is more like being attached to a life-support machine (if we are to use a medical analogy) than like being prescribed a medicine. Christ makes it possible for the believer to live at all. The Christian is not “improved” in the Pelagian way but is allowed to thrive forever because he is attached to the source of his life, who is Christ.”

    WORLD Magazine

  141. oneg2dblu says:

    Yes, the renewing of the mind, that great work of God that changes our sinful desires, through revealing to us our detestable past living.
    So, if you truly have repented, you have turned from your sin to God, where you will no longer continue to chase that desire.
    But, If nothing changes…
    Then no repentance has really taken place.

    Now, I must add, I’m not speaking of perfection here, but, certainly a noticeable change.

    Fruit in keeping with the Spirit, if you will.
    Gary

  142. joycemb says:

    Thank you all I’ve enjoyed the thread today. Blessings!

  143. poohpity says:

    God changes our sinful desires not by revealing to us our detestable past living but by revealing His great immeasurable love for us in spite of the past, what we do today or in future. Satan keeps us bound by reminding of of the past so that we stay depressed, full of guilt and shame but Christ frees us to no longer live in the past but our future in Christ, with Him and by Him.

  144. remarutho says:

    Just so, Street & Pooh —

    The wonder of a tree is that it is rooted deep at the source of life-giving water by the stream. And, the wonder of a Jesus-follower is our complete dependence upon the Water of Life that alone sustains us in our Lord. He gives us His life now — and later, resurrection life never ending.

    At the well of Sychar, Jesus told the woman, “…whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”

    Like the branch of the vine, apart from Jesus we can do nothing. The call is to abide in Him — leaving behind the old joyless unfruitful existence.

    Sweet rest tonight & joy in the new day,
    Maru

    45F and partly cloudy here

  145. foreverblessed says:

    Thanks Street, you enlarged my heart, yes that is living with our God: never without Him!
    God changes our heart if we ask Him: the circumcision was for the Israelites the most important sign, more important than the Sabbath:
    That circumcision is done by somebody else, it is impossible to do that yourself:
    That is the circumcision done to the heart, done supernaturally by God through Jesus!

    We ask in faith that God will do that to us, if nothing changes, check your faith, ask for more faith! And ask God again!

    Praise God! I have to go, cannot give scripture references.
    Time to go to church, God bless you all, mightily Eph 3:14-21

  146. poohpity says:

    We are taught further in Paul’s letter the reason/cause we need to be rooted and grounded in the love of God so that we encourage unity and maturity in faith which is the reason we are given spiritual gifts. Not to judge other’s relationship with the Lord but to build each other up in the love of God.

    Therefore I, a prisoner for serving the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of your calling, for you have been called by God. 2 Always be humble and gentle. Be patient with each other, making allowance for each other’s faults because of your love. 3 Make every effort to keep yourselves united in the Spirit, binding yourselves together with peace. 4 For there is one body and one Spirit, just as you have been called to one glorious hope for the future.

    5
    There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    6
    one God and Father of all,
    who is over all, in all, and living through all.

    7 However, he has given each one of us a special gift[a] through the generosity of Christ. 8 That is why the Scriptures say,

    “When he ascended to the heights,
    he led a crowd of captives
    and gave gifts to his people.”[b]

    9 Notice that it says “he ascended.” This clearly means that Christ also descended to our lowly world.[c] 10 And the same one who descended is the one who ascended higher than all the heavens, so that he might fill the entire universe with himself.

    11 Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. 12 Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ. 13 This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.

    14 Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won’t be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth. 15 Instead, we will speak the truth in love, growing in every way more and more like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church. 16 He makes the whole body fit together perfectly. As each part does its own special work, it helps the other parts grow, so that the whole body is healthy and growing and full of love.

  147. oneg2dblu says:

    Well pooh… I’m glad for you that God did not use the guilt weight of your sin, as He did with me, to bring me into His Marvelous Light.
    But, it was the very bearing of my sin weight that Christ took upon that Cross for me, that became alive and real to me.
    The guilt was gone when His forgiveness was received, but not the memory, the memory lives on, not the guilt, but, recognizing the detestable choices from the acceptable choices, was the renewing of the mind for me, because, In the world today, walk the many deceived or falsely taught, still thinking in their own way, they are also right.

    “All a man’s ways seem right to him.”

    I see that the last word in that statement above is with a small case character, a small mindset if you will, not changed into the renewed mind, and the Greater, Him!

    And that Revelation, is what seems to always separate or cause a struggle in our thinking, and should change how we live our lives, as well.

    But, If nothing changes…

    Just thinking…

  148. oneg2dblu says:

    Yes pooh…Knowing the Love of Christ for me, was also a part of my returning to the Father. But, Repent was the operative!

  149. poohpity says:

    Gary, all I did in the above was to quote God’s word if you have trouble with that as you often do then take it up with Him. Renewing of a mind is when it receives new teaching in accordance with the mind and will of Christ so if you have problems with that then you have problems with God not me. You are so right if nothing changes which apparently it hasn’t when it comes to His word and how you receive it and then add or take away from it as you have mind to. FYI I did not say that the things in my past did not bring me to Christ in fact that is exactly what did bring me to Christ and the desire that even though I had done those things His love for me was bigger than anything I had ever done or will do. That is the very reason I follow Him because of the height, depth, width and breathe of that love.

    I was thinking this morning about God’s great love and how these bakers are refusing service to same sex couples for making wedding cakes claiming it is because of their faith which in no way shows the love of God in the least. If they could make the cake with tears of sadness and prayer then attach a note saying “I have made this cake with tears because I care so deeply for you and want God’s best for your future and God’s best is that one man be married to one woman”. I think the impact would have been much better than going to court over bigotry with big fines and losing their business.

  150. poohpity says:

    I do not understand where it is any of our business what people outside of the body do with their lives, that is between them and God. It is my job to show His great love through actions that will draw others to Christ not away from Him. If one truly had faith and remembered back to what drew them to Christ they would know it was God working in peoples lives not our prejudices, moral policing or contempt.

  151. oneg2dblu says:

    Again, always the conflict…

  152. narrowpathseeker says:

    Good Morning All… I am once again feeling the Love generated by so many here in their concern for their brothers and sisters even though disagreements of how, what,where, and/or why remain. Moreover, in addition to that wonderful Loving feeling, I am still smiling, laughing, and hoping it lasts at that which doesn’t appear to even border on the realm of loving and caring. May all be Blessed today with sight, sound, and smiles.

  153. poohpity says:

    Then odd thing about feelings is that they come and go in seconds depending on the circumstances that surround us but in being grounded and rooted in the Love of God we know(rather than feel) and are shown as we experience through grace that which we do not deserve but know we have. Even though with our finite minds we are unable to comprehend the fullness of that love we still have it by grace. How do we prove that we have believed in faith by our actions towards others and especially those we think do not deserve it just as Christ did for us.

  154. jeff1 says:

    I believe Pooh you are making presumptions about the bakers that they had thought deeply about not making the cake.

    I think they made a bad choice but I can see that they where simply not wanting their fellow believers to see them as supporting same sex marriage when they didn’t. They made a choice by their conscience and I have often done the same so would not judge them for what I am likely to do myself.

    I don’t believe it show a lack of love but a lack of thought on their part.

  155. joycemb says:

    You can’t change what you don’t acknowledge. It was having my eyes opened by the law Ithat I recognized what needed to be changed. I’ve come to realize that, just as Job found out satan is merely a tool used by God to glorify Himself. Don’t shrug off satans attacks, ask God what He is trying to teach you. Too many today are losing out on teaching and training in righteousness. Joy remains as the dross is burned off!

  156. poohpity says:

    Viv, I am not assuming or presuming anything just going off of what they themselves have said after watching them share their story on a news show I watched. To support same sex marriage one would have to do it themselves we can not expect a non believer to the same standards we make a choice to live. The things I believe I need to live it myself not to demand it of others. I am responsible for my response to God and I can not tell you or anyone what theirs should be but what I can do is go to a fellow believer and ask is what you are doing an example of the Love of Christ? This same Jesus who ate, drank and spent time with sinners like me rather than the religious leaders who shunned sinners as unclean and did not feel they could dirty their hands by helping them.

  157. foreverblessed says:

    I would like to stress the fact that Paul wanted to preacher nothing else but Jesus and the Cross.
    The Cross!
    We cannot change ourselves! We can only ask God to change our heart, and earnestly seek for the work of the Cross!
    It is in the Cross that all our sins, shortcomings, depression, are taken up, and taken away! It is a mysterieus work!
    No effort on our side can add to it. We are helpless in any way of being clean and washed white!

    The Cross not only takes sin, it disappears completely. As far as East is from the West. So I do not see why we would remember our sins? It looks more like our heart hasn’t changed, to prevent us from sinning, to remember how bad it was.
    If our hearts are changed, we do not want to sin anymore!
    So if the old desire to go astray is still there, keep going to God, it is the Holy Spirit in us Who does the work, if our will is layed on the altar, and we ask:Your will be done!

    And each person has his own way of going astray, a murderer will not be an alcoholic, an alcoholic will shun to murder.
    A depressief Christian goes astray in yet another way. We cannot change ourselves!
    I know of a Christian preacher who was depressief, and sought for deliverance

  158. foreverblessed says:

    19 years long! He prayed and fasted, and fasted.
    Talking about perseverance!
    Till he was set free, all on his own, spirits of depression left him! And he was free!
    Now he has a ministry for deliverance of spiritual bondage, and all the time he is singing songs of praise to Jesus!
    Beautifull songs!
    Praising God!
    Evil cannot stay with us when we glorify Jesus! It has to go, even if it has to take 18 years!

  159. foreverblessed says:

    Depressief is depressed in Dutch.

  160. foreverblessed says:

    So the song: take a look at the Saviour…
    Keep looking at Him, not a short glance, but a steady gaze.
    And the Power of the Spirit will change us.
    It is a great mystery.

  161. poohpity says:

    Amen! Sometimes, somethings change all at once but other things are in the process of becoming more like Jesus as in being transitional but we do not have to give up hope because we trust in God who is faithful and will be finished by the time Jesus returns. Phil 1:6 NLT

  162. poohpity says:

    forever, goede gedachten!!

  163. foreverblessed says:

    Hé! Gefeliciteerd!
    Congratulations!

  164. jeff1 says:

    Pooh 11.29 am

    I agree that it is not for us to judge others but that does not mean we say we agree with them if we do not. When I do not agree with my children whom I love I tell them so but that does not mean that they listen as a matter of fact I find that most of us have to learn the hard way because we do not listen to those who knows best. I did not listen to my parents when I should have but I have found that they where keeping me right although I did not think so at the time for youth is impetuous.

    There are believers who do believe in same sex marriage because they will tell you that love cannot be a sin and God made them the way they are.

    I trust no one’s beliefs even my own because they have been influenced by men. It is God who has the truth and therefore I should be patient with all God’s creatures for but for the grace of God go I.

  165. street says:

    gary said,”But, If nothing changes…
    Then no repentance has really taken place.”

    i don’t think this is true gary.

    do you remember paul talking about grace increasing?
    sure there are some who would presume or test God on this and will receive a very strong rebuke. even some have fallen asleep. way too early.

    i do know God never changes, and He is not nothing, but true Life.

    hopefully we change because we are maturing. and when we bring forth fruit the sickle is applied because the harvest has come. and He gathers the fruit up for his barn. sounds like a very interesting and scary thing, love cast out fear.

  166. oneg2dblu says:

    street… I only know what the word says about repentance.

    So, if you truly repent from something, then the change in direction is the only proof that you have turned from that way or thing that has separated you from God, and by coming to your senses and repenting, you have returned back to God.

    So to me, Something has changed! In this case it was ones direction.

    If you want to disagree with my explanation, then, you can call those things whatever pleases you.

    Gary

  167. oneg2dblu says:

    jeff1 says… “There are believers who do believe in same sex marriage because (they will tell you) that love cannot be a sin and God made them the way they are.

    “All a mans ways seem right to him.”

    I guess we could blame all our desires and attractions on God, but, doesn’t that rule out and really justify, an anything goes mentality?

    Who then gets to choose which parts of God’s word to rule out, and which to accept?

    The believer or God?

    Just bthinking…

  168. poohpity says:

    I know Viv, I do not believe lying is good either. Don’t you think that we can disagree on life choices and still be kind and accepting of the person, isn’t that how Jesus treated us? I wonder if the couple came into the bakery an asked if the people agreed with their life choice before they ordered a cake and then said if you bake our cake then that tells us you support what we are doing?

  169. poohpity says:

    forever, :-)

  170. oneg2dblu says:

    foreverblessed says… “The Cross not only takes sin, it disappears completely. As far as East is from the West. So I do not see why we would remember our sins? It looks more like our heart hasn’t changed, to prevent us from sinning, to remember how bad it was.

    That is not biblical, we do not have the memory of our past sin erased from us.

    Psalm 32:5 says the guilt is removed from our burden, not the memory.

    In fact the bible says, We are to, “Consider, from how far you have fallen.”

    Revelation 2:5

    So, to consider, we must also remember.

    I hope I have not twisted your words, but, only clarified God’s word instead.

    Gary

  171. oneg2dblu says:

    From my NIV Psalm 32:5
    “Then I acknowledged my sin to you
    and did not cover up my iniquity.
    I said, “I will confess
    my transgressions to the Lord”-
    and you forgave the guilt of my sin.” Selah

    Every translation can sway ones thinking,
    as each word has great value.

    So be careful then, which value you place on you belief system, when small words alter meanings.

    Gary

  172. oneg2dblu says:

    God forgives us our sins when confessed, He does not remove their memory from us, but He takes away the guilt we would still bear if we were not forgiven.
    God does not forgive our guilt, He forgives our sins.
    If I remember correctly, sin and guilt are two separate things, in the word of God, there were clearly separate offerings, one given for each one.

    There was no collective use of the word iniquity as an offering for both sin and guilt. to my knowledge.

    But, I am not an expert on the word, so read it for yourself.
    Gary

  173. poohpity says:

    yes it is very biblical that the Lord casts our sins away as far as the east is from the west to be remembered no more. If God remembers them no more why should we? Psalms 103:12 NLT; Hebrews 9:26 NIV; Isaiah 43:25 It is the adversary and our own insecurities that brings up what has been thrown away but we can claim the word of God over that.

  174. poohpity says:

    The problems come when we base how God deals with things the way we as human beings do. His ways are far above ours, He can forgive and forget.

  175. street says:

    i think He can forget once justice has been served.

    never pray for justice, love mercy.

  176. poohpity says:

    That could be true since Jesus was that justice, street but I also think it is after we admit to what we have done those verses I listed above 2 out of 3 came before Jesus though. Something to ask God about. You are right to ask God for mercy over justice.

  177. oneg2dblu says:

    All those verses are good examples of how God treats the confessed sins of those who believe in the forgiveness of that sin found in Jesus Christ today, and all the blood sacrifices of those who followed the law in the old testament were also equally forgiven.

    How about all the sin that will be committed today?

    If one is a confessed believer, do they then sin guilt free?
    Heaven Forbid!

    Because once you have the knowledge of the tree of good and evil as Adam and Eve did, then you will feel the guilt as Adam and Eve did, you may even try to hide your guilt, or hide from God, but you will know the difference, and you will be held accountable as Adam and Eve.

    Mankind was thrown out of the Garden so that they would not also reach out and freely eat of the tree of life on their own, and find eternal life for themselves, because God made a different plan for all mankind.

    Did God breath the very breath life into Adam and Eve?

    Why then did He also prevent them from eating of the tree of life?

    God’s plan apparently has two parts, the life of the flesh, and the life of the spirit, and it was the flesh that ate of the tree of good and evil, it was the flesh that God judged, it was by the sweat of the fleshes brow, and the fleshes birth pains that would be felt, that He would levy His Justice and Mercy upon His Own Creation for their disobedience, or sin.

    So, today we do not sin freely and without guilt, or without pain, or without the sweat of our brow!

    But, a day is coming…
    Come Jesus!

  178. poohpity says:

    Gary, that type of thinking does not even warrant an answer.

  179. street says:

    dear gary your last comment is a mixture of the heresy of paltonism and pelagianism.

  180. joycemb says:

    Street you mean plato-ism, right?

  181. jeff1 says:

    Gary, you are guided by the bible and the spirit while I am only guided by the spirit.

    Surely, God works in us according to our strengths and weaknesses. If I am not versed in His word then He speaks to me through music, people and nature.

    Not all believers know God’s word and those believers that do will disagree on what they take from it. It comes down to each individual believer in accepting and their beliefs will influence what they accept or do not!

    I can not see how my culture, religion, class will not influence my thinking as I am a product of my roots.

    As I see it I have part truths and will not have the whole truth until Jesus returns. I accept that there are those who understand the bible in great depth and have truths unknown to me.

  182. oneg2dblu says:

    joyce… yes, many biblical scholars have made small points into larger issues, even just the changing of “one word,” can bring about years of lengthy discussions.

    My missed point is that there are two different meanings for the words, guilt and iniquity.

    Those very same are being cross-planted at will, as truth in different translations, and their use or misuse brings with it confusion as well.

    Yes, we all see through the prism, or bias of our culture, upbringing, our roots, and our particular life experience.

    Thank you for your understanding.
    Gary

    It is the baggage or the blessings, or the cross if you will, we carry everywhere we go.

    Today’s higher education institutions are starting to teach that white privilege should be the cross to bear for those whites who are coming of age today.

    An uttering of, “You never built that.”

    A type of mentality that says, “It was handed down to you.”

    I can not speak for other countries where I was not raised, or did not actually participate in or appreciate fully.

    But, being a native born citizen, and knowing what the Founding Father’s of this nation labored at so diligently just to give us the freedoms we now so enjoy.

    Freedoms worth fighting for and defending.

    Knowing well, how much God and His word played into their founding principles, I also know that they are continuously under attack as this word seeks an ever darkening agenda.

    One where God’s Light is being challenged daily, by those who would rather see things more dimly lit.

    Gary

  183. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh says…”If God remembers them no more why should we?”

    Well for starters, the tree Adam And Eve ate from was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    Which by the way, was passed down to us, through their DNA.

    It was not the tree of remembering only the good and forgetting the evil.

    It was not the tree of selective memory, or the tree of attaining a blank mind.

    If that were so, you would not remember all the past incidences of others here who you think spread lies or evil, or wander from the topic, or the many other things you so lovingly attack them with.

    You above many others here, hold on dearly to all the past mistakes of others, claiming you’ve also forgiven.

    Or, if you have not forgiven them, then you certainly should, and forget as well.

    But, you can’t, and neither can I.

    Now the picking will certainly come my way for a while Steve, enjoy the quick little spring break, while you have it.

    Gary

  184. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh says…”If God remembers them no more why should we?”

    Well for starters, the tree Adam And Eve ate from was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    Which by the way, was passed down to us, through their DNA.

    It was not the tree of remembering only the good and forgetting the evil.

    It was not the tree of selective memory, or the tree of attaining a blank mind.

    If that were so, you would not remember all the past incidences of others here who you think spread lies or evil, or wander from the topic, or the many other things you so lovingly attack them with.

    You above many others here, hold on dearly to all the past mistakes of others, claiming you’ve also forgiven.

    Or, if you have not forgiven them, then you certainly should, and forget as well.

    But, you can’t, and neither can I.

    Steve… the picking will certainly come my way for a while, enjoy the quick little spring break while you have it.

    Gary

  185. jeff1 says:

    Gary 4.06 pm

    I agree Gary about this ever darkening world but I do not see men fighting war after war is making it any better.

    Men’s motives for war are very different to God’s and for me trusting God whose plan cannot fail is much better than letting this world get me down for I have seen enough hatred and violence to know man’s way does not work.

    I have said before I do not know my bible but I was brought up to trust in it and trusting in God’s plan is what I believe God asks of me, to keep the faith is all I can do for God and I have had my lapses but it is always where I get my strength from.

    I long for peace but not as the world knows peace but an everlasting peace and only God can bring about that peace which surpasses our understanding.

  186. oneg2dblu says:

    Amen!

  187. street says:

    joycemb said,”Street you mean plato-ism, right?”

    yes that is correct…..i missed that one, you understood what i meant.

  188. street says:

    gary said,” Well for starters, the tree Adam And Eve ate from was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    Which by the way, was passed down to us, through their DNA.”

    i think the Bible clearly teaches that the sin is pass down and imputed to us through adam. this frees eve and her seed not adam’s to bring the Messiah into the world. this is mentioned in Genesis. it says her seed not his or theirs. God is mystery and surprise!

  189. street says:

    gary said,”Knowing well, how much God and His word played into their founding principles, I also know that they are continuously under attack as this word seeks an ever darkening agenda.

    One where God’s Light is being challenged daily, by those who would rather see things more dimly lit.”

    i don’t think they want dimly lit or gray they want total and complete darkness, it’s what they love. as for the anti american drum beats, as i understand, america as to be destroyed in order for them to get their way. stand firm in Christ and pray serve love.

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