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Walking the Walk

Photo by Matt Niemi

As expressed by responses to our last post, a danger of 12 Step Recovery is that those who work the program can fail to see where the insights of its “cycle of steps” come from.

A similar danger is found in Bible study or church attendance that focuses on moral answers that don’t lead to reliance on what Christ has done for us… or on a wisdom that leads to pride rather than humility.

Ironically, real danger also lies in the thought that “all we need is Christ” to deal with any problem of our lives. Just as there is no substitute for trusting what Christ did for us, there is no substitute for the wisdom that the risen Christ wants give us.

Those of you who have followed this blog for a while know how impressed I am with the way the Apostle Peter ended up netting this thought out. We probably identify with him because of his “slip ups” along the way. He’s the one who told Jesus that he was ready to go to prison or death for him—just before cursing and denying that he ever knew the Teacher from Galilee.

But in time Peter seemed to figure out that faith in Christ needs a special kind of wisdom to grow. The result is that, with just a few words, Peter offers tightly connected insights that he says he wanted to keep talking about for as long as he lived  (2Peter 1:12-13).

Again, Peter learned that Christ-centered faith in the power, promises, and goodness of God (2Peter 1:1-4) comes with a learnable/teachable plan in which each step depends on the prior—and leads to the next (2Peter 1:5-7).

Over time I’ve seen books that treat Peter’s “solution for a productive spiritual life” as if it’s just another collection of virtues. I’ve discovered the danger of formulaic answers and outcomes. But I still keep coming back to the conclusion that if any of the elements Peter describes is carelessly missed, or purposely skipped, we’re already stumbling…

Like 12 Step Recovery, these steps need to be worked for the rest of our lives. They need to be worked with hope and vision in the presence of other strugglers. And they need to be taken seriously in light of the fact that we are always in danger of slip-ups or big backslides if we don’t…

Like 12 Step Recovery, these steps lead to a “deliverance” that deserves to be celebrated and carried with a sense of mission for those who have not yet discovered “sobriety” and freedom in the Spirit and wisdom of Christ.

Can you see why I’m so intrigued with the fact that such words are attributed to Peter; that this is more of “a walk” than a “formula” for specific/immediate results; and that it can help us from missing the wisdom of “the Way”?


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136 Responses to “Walking the Walk”

  1. Hayes says:

    In my study in the bible I find that Jesus is the only answer but without support of other christians you do not stand a chance of recovering from any problem. This is simple but why make Gods answers so complicated. God Loves You, and I thank Him everyday.

  2. saled says:

    Yes, these steps need to be worked at for the rest of our lives. But I admit that I already feel defeated when I read ” add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge, self control; and to self control patience; and to patience, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and brotherly kindness, love.” I’m in my mid 50’s and just beginning to see one or two of these developing in me.

    I think it’s important to think of these all as choices that we make everyday, and maybe that is what Mart means when he says that these steps are more of a walk than a formula for specific/immediate results. I thought that if I just focused on love, all the rest would fall in to place. But maybe Peter is right: it does take patience before you can choose love.

    Can someone tell me what godliness looks like? How do we choose this? This is a subject that really has me thinking!

  3. SFDBWV says:

    Sorry to have to repeat myself, but as I posted this information on the last post and it has already changed I am compleled to do so.

    Our old friend Charlotte (gr8granny) has passed on.

    She was a dear friend to me and my family, and her grace and loving spirit will be missed.

    Steve

  4. SFDBWV says:

    Mart you write, “Ironically real danger lies in the thought “All we need is Christ.”

    What danger?

    Are you saying that God is not enough?

    Do you believe that there is something missing from God in order for us to be..healed in spirit?

    The steps, as you refere to them in scripture, are still from HIM, as is scripture wisdom…and steps to where?

    Where are these steps to take us from and to what higher point?…That is higher than our personal relationship with Christ?

    Having arrived at the beginning point of accepting Christ, is a many numbered staircase of steps/stumbles that take us closer to God. All the remainder of our lives. Not ever reaching our desired goal until we are reunited with God.

    Step *ONE* accept Christ as Lord and put all trust in Him and nothing else…

    Steve

  5. scout1 says:

    Steve, I’ll be praying for you and your family. I’m sorry for your loss and hope that Jesus will fill your hearts with peace.

    Mart -sorry I have never heard of the word- “formulaic”. It’s interesting. :) To love God is to obey Him. Sometimes I wonder what God is working in me to change my heart like His -but I don’t. Steps or Formulaic -either way God is workin’ on the inside -so, again we are dependent on the mysteries of God. Please don’t look at these remarks as an “easy way to think”. It’s hard to rely on the Lord for heart changes, decisions and waiting times.

    I too, love Peter story -because he was so “human” and yet look at the rest of the story . . .WoW. Not only Peters’ change but how the Lord -loved, forgave and directed him. I wonder what future things I’m going to do that the Lord already knows about and yet is still going to work with me.

    Good Day,
    Scout

  6. oneg2dblu says:

    Hayes… I see your point, Chirst is always the Head and must be our focus, but we also need the rest of the body to be involved, for us to Walk the Walk!

  7. glbrosnan says:

    I agree with Mart that God has given us wisdom, and we need to use that wisdom, and we also need community. I have recently learned something from fellow Christians that has been life-changing, and this is after spending 40 years talking to various Christian therapists!!

    Also, please don’t leave the Holy Spirit out of this discussion! I grew up in a church that tended to leave Him out of it, and the Holy Spirit is who works these changes in our lives as we seek God’s face and His righteousness. “Not in our own strength, for it is God who is all the while at work in you both to will and to do for His good satisfaction and delight.” (That’s my paraphrase of the Amplified version of Paul’s words!)

    Best,
    Gayle

  8. Regina says:

    Good Morning All

    Hope all is well with you today. I wanted to contribute more to the previous blog post yesterday, but I got sick last night (it was something I ate/I have food sensitivities) and all I could do was take Tylenol and lay down in order to feel better. Feeling much better today, thank God, so hopefully I’ll be able to chat with you later.

    Rainy today (43 – 46 degrees) in Texas.

  9. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… out of context? Proverbs 3:5-6
    Yes, and No, I could lay back and leave all to Him, but if I do not sit up and touch the keys with my own effort, how do I share, even on this blog, what word he wants me to? Not a rebuke, but food for thought, the walk we speak of in which we want to be, “Christ Alone,” involves us! Are we not the Hands anfd Feet, and Mouth, of God today, as we live out our lives in this world for Him? I know I am preaching to the choir, and not giving you anyhting that you do not already grasp fully!
    I see your walk, and in the context, you bless us, and please Christ, Our God Gary!

  10. oneg2dblu says:

    Ooops, I needed a little more effort and should have put the comma between God, and Gary!

  11. oneg2dblu says:

    I guess I left out a step!

  12. oneg2dblu says:

    saled… what does godliness look like?
    I tell you my take, from what I take, from the Bible.
    If we look in the mirror, we see a human, which is formed in the Image of God.
    If we look at the “life we live” in this human form, and it falls within the guidelines of His Word and Will for US, we live a godly life.
    If we see a human who lives in, “willfull and helpless disobedience,” to God’s Word, we see a form of un-godliness, in its full fruited presence! Useless for the showing of godliness, for nothing ever looks as godless to me, as when a human is trapped in helpless disobedience, that serves his own desire!
    To me, Obedience to God’s Word, is godliness! Gary

  13. oneg2dblu says:

    Scout… I have never been a Boy Scout, but I do know the Motto, “Be Prepared!” I also know what attributes that are taught to a scout!
    A Scout is… trustworthy, loyal, helpful, freindly, courtious, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverant!
    Sounds like a godly formula to me!
    I wonder “what steps” those character traits were founded on? “Be Prepared, as God Provides!” Gary

  14. poohpity says:

    I would have thought at one time “all we need is Christ” because it seems to be the pat answer. He is the SOURCE of all that we need but we need food, water and through his mighty wisdom he has given us doctors, counselors, teachers and all the rest of those that have gifts in areas to help the body to survive. We really need each other too. He did not leave Adam alone but gave him all the good things that He created to live a fulfilled life. When we look to the things created to fulfill our needs without the SOURCE they really mean nothing but emptiness and separation from God.

    It is a process “A Walk” the closer one gets to God then other things do not seem as important but we have to have something to do. We have to learn the truth, we have to grow in grace, live on hope and experience real love to be productive in Honoring God.

  15. scout1 says:

    Hey Gary! Thanks for the info. on Boy Scouts. But, I’ll tell you a little secret. . .My blog name “Scout1” is not inspired by Boy Scouts . . .but . . .on a sweet little dog I used to have. He was a really wonderful little guy.

    Have a good one. Don’t tell anyone. . .;)

    In remembrance of:

    Scout1

  16. poohpity says:

    lol! My name also is from a Great Dane I used to be blessed to own.

  17. scout1 says:

    Pooh -you know what they say about great minds . . .;)

    Steve- you write so well. You write like you talk. If you were to meet me in real life, I really don’t talk in fragments! The post about writing didn’t help me much. I just re-read my post and it’s not very understandable. I put you folks in a position to use your better judgement and common sense. Sorry for the extra work. I would like to communicate as well as you do Steve. I aspire to that end. :) Blessing to you.

    Lynda

  18. phpatato says:

    Steve I remember Gr8Granny posting here. Her words were wise and gentle and showed her love for Christ. I missed her when she was no longer able to stop by. Know that my prayers are with you and your family as well has her family. Sending big hugs to you today!

    I too am missing Frank. It has been awhile since he stopped by. I pray everything is well with him.

    Pat

  19. Mart De Haan says:

    SFDBWV, Steve, thank you for letting us know about gr8granny, Charlotte’s homegoing. Her comments on this blog have already been missed.

  20. xrgarza says:

    Mart,

    Thanks once again for sharing your heart and insight.

    It is easy to turn any value into a ritual if we are not careful, what the Lord will do for you today to get you out of a jam may not be the status quo, nor is it meant to become a practice that changes the message of Christ and the gospel.

    It should simply focus on God’s grace and mercy that never changes. As an analytical person it’s a natural instinct for me to understand the problem and develop a formula for it, I have learned that problem solving technique does not work with spiritual matters all the time, so I can’t package it up and market it.

    The solution that I have found that works best is like the solution that Peter found, a special kind of wisdom, no man can teach this, it comes from God alone, and the Holy Spirit administers it and God gets the glory. Praise God!

    Rocky

  21. xrgarza says:

    PS: Mart I read the ODB devotional today I noticed that you were the author, it really spoke to me, since I had a friend get out of prison yesterday. Thank you

    Rocky

  22. Charis says:

    The photo should be a spiral staircase going round and round the mountain, advancing higher and higher.

    Gr8granny Charlotte has leaped off the top into heaven. :)

  23. foreverblessed says:

    Thank you for the Proverb 3,
    I read this chaptre just now, with what Mart wrote above in my head:
    5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
    and lean not on your own understanding;
    6 in all your ways acknowledge him,
    and he will make your paths straight.

    THe hard work, is NOT to lean on your own understanding,
    as what Scout1 wrote too (you speak sensibly well, or should I say: what you write makes much sense)
    Also glbrosnan wrote: lean not on you own understanding.

    And that makes it hard, because we want to have the control over our own life,
    but if we do trust Him, He will make straight our paths, v6
    all the rest of the proverb suddenly makes more sense now.
    Afcourse we have to act on what God/Jesus shows us; if someone needs our help today, do not wait for tomorrow.

    A good name is better than fine perfume, and the day of death better than the day of birth. Ecclesiastes 7:1
    but we do not feel that way, we are very happy when someone is born, and very sad when someone dies.
    but Granny is in a beautifull place now.
    Only there is now a place empty here on earth, I pray that God will comfort all those who mourn for her.

  24. foreverblessed says:

    and about mourning: Ecclesiastis 7
    2 It is better to go to a house of mourning
    than to go to a house of feasting,
    for death is the destiny of every man;
    the living should take this to heart.
    3 Sorrow is better than laughter,
    because a sad face is good for the heart.
    4 The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning,
    but the heart of fools is in the house of pleasure.
    5 It is better to heed a wise man’s rebuke
    than to listen to the song of fools.

    and about wisdom:
    11 Wisdom, like an inheritance, is a good thing
    and benefits those who see the sun.
    12 Wisdom is a shelter
    as money is a shelter,
    but the advantage of knowledge is this:
    that wisdom preserves the life of its possessor.
    19 Wisdom makes one wise man more powerful
    than ten rulers in a city.

    But then, where do we find wisdom, the preacher asks:
    23 All this I tested by wisdom and I said,
    “I am determined to be wise”—
    but this was beyond me.
    24 Whatever wisdom may be,
    it is far off and most profound—
    who can discover it?

    it is all found in Jesus,
    but we have to dig for it

    sorry for making this a long omment, but these scriptures are so beautiful.
    Did you know this verse was in the bible:
    21 Do not pay attention to every word people say,
    or you may hear your servant cursing you—
    22 for you know in your heart
    that many times you yourself have cursed others.
    and this one:
    Do not say, “Why were the old days better than these?” For it is not wise to ask such questions. Ecclesiastis 7:10

  25. oneg2dblu says:

    foreverblessed.. I think I got it! The “good old days,” ain’t so good after all, and laughter is not always the best medicine. LOL
    Here’s a quote that I would like to use, on resisting…
    “None be he knows, what that is which he can do, until he tries!” Geothe
    For those who do not currently resist will never know if they could be successful or not, for without taking God’s word on resisting, temptation will always overtake you!
    Just ask any “X’ smoker, drinker, drugger, gambler, sex addict, and lifelong helpless sinner, who has conquered
    through resiting, many habits, addictions, and bad behaviors, a has tasted victory! None are easy to ressit at first, but with God’s helper living inside of every believer, we have a pretty good chance, that the one who lives in us, is greater, than the one who lives in the world! But, we must resist, or God would not have told us so! Gary

  26. oneg2dblu says:

    Scout1… then, you can call me Spotty, who was my first dog of memory. A woderful wirehaired terror, Oops! terrier! PUN intended!

  27. poohpity says:

    I believe the addiction to think more highly of our self than we ought and to be so proud of one’s righteousness can wrap itself tightly around a person’s ankle that they will trip and fall. Humility will keep our eyes on Jesus and prevent us from stumbling. Knowing who we are compared to Christ is the only path I want to walk on and Jesus is the only ONE who can work in us to walk the walk then we can take no pride in the results and ALL the Glory will go where it belongs back to God.

  28. oneg2dblu says:

    What do we do with the words, “Make every effort….?
    Is Paul not talking to those Christian’s who have been Saved by Grace? Those, being called out of there Unbelief and Complaciency, living in the corruption in the world caused by evil desire, with their lack of understanding, and their tiny Untested Faith, which needs much climbing, out of where they were, when they first Repented?

    It is never about bragging rights, it is about making every effort, by participating, working for a Noble Assignment, working for Christ!

  29. oneg2dblu says:

    Mart… what a lesson you and Paul, have laid out for us, with a well defined hierarchy if you will, or as you say, one step building upon another. Great visual picture, and I’m so glad there is a railing that helps keep us from stumbling as well. Here is what I see Paul building before us in these verses. First, is the use of the word, Power. We must recognize God’s Power as the Ultimate Authority over us, that is “The Foundation” which everything builds upon. When we surrender in Repentance, or Turn to God, we take Step Number One! Repent first, and then from His Divine Power, comes the Indwelling of His Holy Spirit, and then, comes everything else we need.
    His Protection, Provision, Promises, and if we have claimed them, in the climbimng of those steps, then we get to the next step, Participation. Which allows us to Escape the Corruption in the world caused by Evil Desires. Because, when we are Participating in the Divine Power’s Work, given to us to do, through Obedience to His Word,, then, “we have” overcome the corruption of worldly desires.
    Then, we can make Every Effort, to adding to Our Faith, with, Goodness, Knowledge, Self-control, Perseverence, godliness,brotherly kindness, and love. Not the type of physical, or sexually based love, we bring to the bottom of the stairs, but the fully “built upon” Divine Love, the Unconditon Love, we find at the top of the stairs, as we become Closer to God in Our Walk! I do not believe this has ever been fully embraced by me, before today! I trust others may find some needed context in the building process of one upon another!

  30. oneg2dblu says:

    Mart…I truly am blessed by the teaching at a church who does not teach only the easy passages, and commit the gravest of sins, the “Sin of Ommision.” If you aren’t being taught the “hard tough stuff” of the Word of God at your church, my heart aches for you! This is not bragging, with a shiny church pin on my lapel, it is carring a burden, “my cross” for those who are being deceieved! It is “one of the reasons” that the Teaching of Eternal Security, can be so devistating for some. Those who never feel the need to “have to go” to the next step, as they “rest” in their complacent based, no more godly laws apply, no sins can tarnish, no thoughts can corrupt, or no actions bring condemnation, even those taken against my God, for it will ever apply to me, I’m a Once Saved, Always Saved, believer! How sad is that! No one doubts your Salvation, put the use of it for justifing, a no need to change anything, “Your okay just the way you are,” is just “bad theology” living at its finest moment, for that teaching is the first step only. It is Embraced Fully by many Churches that practice the Sin of Ommision! Your Salvation, is only the first step of Following Christ! Churches who feed “first step only” Christians, fall WAY SHORT of the life, God has in store for those who are taught, that it will take a “great deal” of effort, with much Obedience, and much Resisting the Temptations of the world around us,to Accend the Remaining Steps to Righteous Living, through an “Ongoing Daily Relatioship” with Christ. God’s Finest Hour is a fully taught Christian, will suffer to carry on, to taking all the steps, in order to Fully Follow, His Ever Leading Master! Our God Provides, and is Willing!
    That is the Walk…. “Ever Accending!” Gary

  31. oneg2dblu says:

    Sorry for the extra “M” in omision, at least I didn’t leave anything out!

  32. oneg2dblu says:

    Ascending, I knew that too, but failed to correct it in time.

  33. oneg2dblu says:

    foreverblessed… I revisited Matthew 12 last night while waiting for the service to start. God blessed my socks off! Thank you for the leading question that made me go back, and dig it out! It speaks to the Once Saved condition, and exemplifies something your asked me to seek for a better understanding, the meaning of Faling Away! The clean house, is what we leave the Salvation moment with, “a spotless condition,” but we allow the sin which we were found in, to come back and live with us! We fall way, from the newly cleansed house, to live in an even greater amount of dirt, as we bring back into our lives the very sin forgiven, and many others with it, because we were just given a clean slate! Because we are Always Saved, we now feel we are exempt from its wickedness, for we now can take it for granted, being ever Saved, and being decieved out the ever ascending steps, that sin takes away in its liberty! If we allow it back into our house, our body and temple for God, and do not resist it at the door, Our withered hand, also found in this chapter, then returns “being useless” to help us climb the rest of the steps that Salvation, should present before us! Gary

  34. oneg2dblu says:

    Poohpity… please know this is, out of the love I have for you, as my sister in Christ, I will not continue to offend your sensibilities on this issue again. Please forgive my treaspass, as I convey the weight of the cross, I choose to carry for Him! I mean no harm to you. Gary

  35. poohpity says:

    The only harm you are causing is to yourself and your witness.

  36. Charis says:

    Gary,

    I think that was me rather than foreverblessed who brought up Matt 12 on an earlier thread. I didn’t follow the OSAS (once saved always saved) controversy so my bringing it up was not related to that.

    The main take away we had after a lively family discussion is that a person can spend a lot of time spit polishing their “house”[tent/temple] but unless they FILL it with Jesus [Holy Spirit, Living Water. . . ], they have only made it a more inviting target for Satan.

  37. Charis says:

    Gary,

    Are sins the problem or the symptom?

    Did Jesus die to forgive your sins? or so that you can be born again?

    God told me “forgive those who trespass against you”. If I forgive their sins, are they clean? How come Jesus had to die? Why couldn’t God just forgive our sins when we ask? After all he expects us to forgive people’s sins against us even if they don’t ask to be forgiven.

    If sins are the “fruit”, what is the “ROOT”? If I get rid of ALL the bad “fruit”, does that fix the tree?

    Are we sinners because we sin? Or do we sin because we are sinners?

    IMO focusing on sin- whether it’s my own or another’s- doesn’t bring any deliverance.

    (this does not mean I cannot correct someone and hold them accountable when their actions/decisions/behavior are hurting others)

  38. oneg2dblu says:

    Charis… that’s nine questions!
    I cannot answer the chicken or the egg type of question,
    for whatever I come up with it, will not cluck properly for all occaisons.
    But, for correcting sin…we must “always” use the Word of God, to give proper authority, and make it Valid.
    Sin, is living Outside the Will of God, and God’s Laws. Many sinners, need proper teaching, or they will not know, what the Will of God is for the Christian Walk.
    So, we cannot expect the church, and especially those churches who teach wrongly, to cover all situations for that correction. First, Not all sinners, go to the church we go to, and many do not attend at all!
    So, other means, must take place, or we ignore the opportunity that God presents befor us, to help others!
    We may not all be called , or equipped, to do every type of service for the Lord, as his giftings to some, are pastors/teachers, some are great prayer warriors, some have the gift of helps, tongues, prophesy….
    But, if God directs us, and he equips us, and he does, we must be the Mouth, Hands and Feet that bring both the Good News, and for some of those calling themselves Christian, who do not understand the Christian Walk, is to be in Obedience to the entire Word of God, we should all be challenged to help them.
    We cannot present, in our moment of correction, the entire word, so we must use parts to evoke a challenge
    in the effort to correct. For many times, what we use will be rejected, and the answer for that is, in the Works of the Holy Spirt in the Hearer, for the Word of God does not return void!
    The root to all sin in man, is in his sin nature, but for the Born Again Christian, Disobedience to God’s Word
    is the “Fulfillement of our Failure” to live in the Will of God. For IF we possess, His Holy Spirit, who should guide us, into right living for Our Saviour’s sake, who took upon Himself, the very root of our nature, our sin!

  39. oneg2dblu says:

    Charis… I don’t like preaching to those who already know the better way, as you definately do, but in an attempt to answer your multi leveled questions, I ramble. Forgive any provocation you may read into it, for it is the only the way I seem to be able, at this time, to present my view. Even if it tastes like chicken…Gary

  40. oneg2dblu says:

    Charis… to answer one question, He, Jesus, died for the sins of the world. Salvation, is another issue, that is completely, one on one, selfishly rendered, given freely, and only each individual, who is called by God, and who WILL REPENT, and be Forgiven his sins!
    John the Baptist, AND CHRIST, both used the same exact message!! “REPENT for the kigdom of heaven is near,”
    Matt. 3:2 John the Baptist, Matt. 4:17 Jesus Christ!
    Was one more gentle in his using the words?
    I only ask that question to make a statement, not looking for an answer! Gary

  41. Regina says:

    Good Evening All,

    Hope all is well with you today.

    Your comment, Mart,
    “Can you see why I’m so intrigued with the fact that such words are attributed to Peter; that this is more of “a walk” than a “formula” for specific/immediate results; and that it can help us from missing the wisdom of “the Way”?”
    brought to mind Gen. 5:24, Gen. 6:9, Psalm 23:4 NIV:

    “24) Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.”
    “9) Noah was a righteous man, the only blameless person living on earth at the time, and he walked in close fellowship with God.
    “4) Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me;
    your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

    Enoch, Noah and David had a relationship/friendship with God that developed over time. There was no special formula for immediate results. They just trusted and depended on God throughout their entire lives, and He continued to prove Himself trustworthy. These men discovered that God was a faithful friend, and He has shown the same dependability/faithfulness towards believers in this present day, those of us who have a relationship with Him…who “walk” with Him on a daily basis.

    A song comes to mind…
    Walk with me, Lord…walk with me
    Walk with me, Lord…walk with me
    While I’m on this…tedious journey
    I want Jesus…to walk with me

    Rainy, cloudy and foggy in Texas today (Low/mid 40s).

  42. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Regina,

    You just hit the nail on the head as to what I was thinking after Gary’s comments above.

    Gary, I am no expert, but I seem to be seeing “legalistic” obeying of rules, God’s will type thinking in what you are saying and how you are saying it.

    Enoch, and Noah had no such law or scripture to follow they just had a relationship with God that, as Regina said, took time to grow and develope as they learnt to trust Him.
    David had a lot more to help him understand the nature of God, as we do, because he knew how God had saved His people Israel from the bondage of Egypt (sin) and brought them into new life (born again) into the promised land.
    It is not in the obeying that we find our salvation or forgiveness of sin but in the acceptance of our Fathers love and the fellowship we have with Him through the Blood and Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, Messiah.

    Bob

  43. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    The obeying is when we step out into the promised land and take possesion of it.
    When we start to live in the Kindom and Domain God has freely given us.
    That’s when the miracles happen both in us and through us.

  44. SFDBWV says:

    In reading 2 Peter, what I get isn’t a 12 step program, but as Mart has titled his topic, a walk or progression from accepting Christ to the goal of brotherly love.

    However most of the Book of Second Peter is given to warnings of false teachers and of false doctrine.

    As well as teaching of the return of Christ and the end of all things as we have known them.

    Peter knew all too well the weakness of man, and has warned us all to be careful of what we put into our hearts.

    Steve

  45. oneg2dblu says:

    To whom it applies… Happy Martin Luther King Jr. Day!
    I heard today, FOR THE FIRST TIME, a quote from the wisdom of a man, guided by the holy Spirit, and not the Flesh, who was willing to share truth at any cost to himself!
    “Be wary of the Intoxication of the Drug of Gradualism”
    MLK jr
    Tell me America, how is the taking Prayer “out” of Schools, working for you? When, in one High School alone, in one year alone, (86) girls, who “were” taught well, their sex education, become pregnant?
    Answer… the “Sin of Omission” at its finest hour!
    After all…they were just, “Being Themselves!”
    I’m told, but did not practice myself, in the wayward practice of just being myself, ABSTINANCE WORKS, 100% only,When your are Obedient to it, and resist, the Temptation which the Schools in America, without Prayer,
    find just a little “too godly” for them. For them, even Prayer, has gradually become Taboo! Gary
    Not to leave the “other side of the pond” out of my thoughts I ask, How’s the “Churches of England” doing, in the “gradual” Constancy of Omision, where soo many Cahterdrals built for the Christian Way, now have gradually become, filled to the rafters, as Muslim Mosques?

  46. Charis says:

    Gary,

    I don’t feel at all provoked by you. I resonate with some of what you write.

    My only concern was to correct the record of who brought up Matt 12 since it seems there’s an unresolved conflict between some commenters over OSAS.

    And my list of questions was @ “sins” are a symptom. The problem is flesh. People can live a life which appears pretty righteous on the outside and be a whitewashed tomb. I know from my own experience as a “recovering Pharisee”. :)

  47. Charis says:

    Gary Said: Charis… to answer one question, He, Jesus, died for the sins of the world. Salvation, is another issue, that is completely, one on one, selfishly rendered, given freely, and only each individual, who is called by God, and who WILL REPENT, and be Forgiven his sins!- Gary

    My understanding is that forgiveness is RENDERED regardless of that person’s reaction to it. When Jesus taught us to pray “forgive us our trespasses and we forgive those who trespass against us”, doesn’t that mean we are to forgive them REGARDLESS of whether they REPENT? If we are to do so, doesn’t God do so? HE’s not asking us to be better than HIM, is HE?

    Jesus died for the sins of the world. All sin was taken care of at the cross once and for all.

    As far as REPENT: That means “change of mind” which is not about behavior but about focus. Am I focused on the flesh? whether its a focus on evil or good, it’s all death. The tree of knowledge was not just knowledge of EVIL but knowledge of GOOD. If I am proud and self righteous because I have spit polished my house clean, but I am not FILLED with the Spirit, it profits me nothing.

    The post title is “Walking the Walk”

    “God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” Rom 8:3-4

  48. Charis says:

    oops, “forgive us our trespasses AS we forgive those who trespass against us”

    a couple more on unconditional forgiveness:

    on the Cross He said “forgive them for they know not what they do”

    and Stephen said as he was stoned “Father, do not hold this sin against them”

  49. oneg2dblu says:

    Charis…I did finally realize, that you did not introduce the Matt 12 question, and I meant my reply to go elsewhere, but when you push the button,mistakes and all, go where they must. However, when you blog here…”the intended” do get the message as well.
    So, thank you for the claris-ification!
    Sin, “any” sin, gradually becomes un-noticed, if “gradually,” societal pressures,(SIN) Rule in the making everybody feel OKAY, about just being themselves, or because they are SAVED? Our Churches, are full of those “who do not recognize” sin in the making, when we say, There is nothing wrong with you! We should say, “There is nothing wrong with you, “THAT GOD” cannot correct!”
    But, WE ARE NOT DOING JUSTICE, when we soften his priciples, to fit “the others,” and our own needs!
    We ALL need to “be changed” from that sin which,
    Besets Us! You know the one, the one you will not even give to God. For you deceptivly defend it, as being something God sees, an being special for you!
    Then, in your quest for Justification, you only accept those, who accept your speciality!
    The WORLD says, “Always be yourself, because the people that matter don’t mind, and the ones who mind, don’t matter!” This is a GREAT DECPTION, and Great Theology, for those who “will not” Resist Evil, and change! Murderers, have people who support their side, of their issue! I know, for I was well supported, in the killing (ABORTION) of my only child! Adulterers, have people who support, their side, of thier issue! I know, for they “were” my closest friends! You name the sin, and then you find your supprot system! It may be the local bar, the gambling casino, the race track, the________, you name it, you cliam it!
    Without complete prejudice, Against this Truth, can you see any truth in this AS a Christ Follower, we “cannot just sit silent,” and watch HIS WORLD suffer, the Consecquences of the SIN, in telling others,Just Be Yourself! God Help Us!
    I cherish, all the words, that those who refuse to change, bring into this Arena of Deception!
    I know, as I and am very familiar, with those very stinging words, lavished lovingly upon me, by my own brothers! Perhaps your experience is different! Gary

  50. Charis says:

    Gary,

    I DID raise Matt 12.

    You attributed it to foreverblessed Jan 16 8:30am and related it to the OSAS conflict. Not knowing what went on in the OSAS conflict or if my comment would inadvertently escalate the situation, I was attempting- as far as it depends upon me- to be a peacemaker by making sure of correct attribution of my words to me and not someone else.

  51. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Gary,
    Our Cathedrals are just buildings of stone and the Muslims are welcome to them if they are put to good community use.
    God’s Church is made up of people, who are flesh and blood and meet wherever they can to Worship their King.
    We as a church meet in an old barn and, if this sunday was anything to go by, do not suffer from “gradual” Constancy of Omision, as you put it. But feast on every word that God has said.
    Perhaps it is time you worried less about the “omisions” of others and took a look at your own.

    Bob

  52. oneg2dblu says:

    Charis…Are we NOW SAYING, “Jesus wasted His Words,” When HE said, “REPENT?” Are the churches following the words of Christ, teaching repentance for sins, ALL LOST?
    I MUST not be getting the *Context*, of your point, of NOT requiring, REPENTING!
    I do not want to argue particulars, but the word repent,
    has been used by many, for a reason!
    Can one who is ‘not called” by God, also be Saved!
    Maybe His, STILL SMALL VOICE, doesn’t convict the sinful spirit of humanity, like i was led to believe, if the sinful spirit is already, as you say, RENDERED REGARDLESS!
    Where is the Great Commission, or our mission? What use, are the words of conviction, if the Lost are Already Rendered?
    I’m totally at the diisposal of confusion of words!
    God Help Me!

  53. oneg2dblu says:

    “Some days, it is just not worth chewing, through the restaints!”

  54. oneg2dblu says:

    I’m told they taste like chicken! LOL

  55. Charis says:

    Gary,

    As for the rest of you comment (Jan 17, 9:42), I feel that the “church” errs to be pointing the finger out there at “the world” (abortion, gambling, adultery, etc).

    9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
    12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. 1 Cor 4

    Are the 50% of pew sitters and the 30% of pastors who use porn “sexually immoral”? Wonder how Paul would handle that?

  56. Charis says:

    I did not say repentance is unneeded. To the contrary, the GOOD NEWS is “Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord” Acts 3:19. Thinking about this alongside Matt 12 where the man has his house all swept and in order by his own effort versus Acts 3:19 where I picture the HOLY SPIRIT blotting up all the ugly stains and the presence of the LORD in the house bringing refreshment. . .

    Has a pastor who is using porn “repented”?

    Is a pastor who is using porn walking in the Spirit?

    “Romans 8:5For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. 8Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”

    I am married to a man who was extremely zealous about pointing out “the sins of the world”

    “Zeal” is a red flag for me. Did you know that ZEAL is among the works of the flesh in Gal 5? (you can verify this by looking at the passage on blueletterbible in the concordance view look at “emulations”).

    Jesus was kind to sinners.
    He was really hard on Pharisees and the self righteous. (Matt 23, Matt 7:21-24)

  57. oneg2dblu says:

    Charis…He would tell them to repent! If he follows God’s direction! I followed your directive, to seek out biblegateway and search, correction. It was a well intentioned place, for correction.With 17 verses at my dsiposal, I choose this one, Proverbs 15:10
    “Whoever abandons the right path will be severly
    disciplined: whoever hates correction will die.”
    Obviously, the writer uses these words, found on the lips of a wise man,who was directed by Almighty God, for a reason!
    Did you know that when we see the picture of Jesus the Good Shepherd, holding a Precious Lamb, that there is a severe context which is not shown? That is, the shepherds well intentioned practice of that day, who had constantly wandering lambs, they broke their limbs, to keep them “under their protection!”
    Proper Correction for those who abandon the right path, can be very Severe!
    But, I know some who would say, I choose that verse for my own purposes, and need to read all. What they do not realize, is that I have read all, and I still choose, where I feel directed, who then can judge, the purpose of the directing, “Hand Upon Me?”

  58. Charis says:

    Gary,

    I resonate with the 10:42 comment,
    so long as it’s not taken (as I’ve seen done IRL)
    as permission to “break the legs” of one’s children because they spilt their milk or “break the legs” of one’s wife because she’s teed off about something.

    Jesus is very VERY tender with sinners. He’s tough on Pharisees and the self righteous, those that presume to be “right” and are unwilling to be corrected.

  59. oneg2dblu says:

    Is the pastor using porn repented? I do not know, but can only judge from what you tell me, that he is still a victim, to his prefered sin, which he has not yet turned from.
    If repentance is a turnig away, he is maybe really sorrowfull, and wishes not to do it again, but not yet, really fully repented!

  60. Charis says:

    Gary,

    Luke 18:9-14

  61. Charis says:

    re 10:56am Maybe he is really sorry but is it “Godly sorrow” or “the sorrow of the world”?

    “For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.” 1 Cor 7:10

  62. Charis says:

    And if he manages by will power to “give it up” and is very proud of his accomplishment, after all his house is spit polish clean, has he really repented?

  63. oneg2dblu says:

    You are correct, Christ in his godliness would do it another way! So, in your godliness you wouldn’t break you child’s legs, for spilt milk!
    But, if you knew your child was going to wander too close to the edge, and would fall into a bottomless pit, to what extent would you go, to protect them?
    Every time we change the perspective, we change the rules, but God’s rules, we must not ever change!
    He’s God, He can change us,and who are we to stand in his way, saying, we just want to be US?
    When He says, Follow Me, and we don’t?

  64. oneg2dblu says:

    Charis…I can’t answer, if he who has stopped sinful behavior on his own, has repented, but I can say, judging form outward appearances, and not knowing his heart, that he has shown, he has turned away from that which was not the Will of God for His Walk, as a Pastor, who is to lead by example, that which he shows every time he steps up to the pulpit to preach! I still cannot see into his heart, nor do I have to, but if he is teaching the Word of God outwardly, than who am I to judge his insides?

  65. Charis says:

    We can’t MAKE anyone else follow him. Nor does He. God is a gentleman. Something that bothers me, which I think you have expressed bothers you too is the utter hypocrisy in “church leadership”. See, biblically there are qualifications to be in ministry and if someone doesn’t qualify biblically, they should step down immediately. But they just continue on in denial and self-justification. They need the legs cut out from under them IMO, for their own good and the good of those they are “shepherding”. “These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead.” Jude 1:12

    Both in Jude and in the 2 Peter passage Steve mentioned @ 7:39am, the people mentioned are WITHIN the church, not outside of it.

  66. oneg2dblu says:

    Suppose we each decide in our hearts, we will no longer debate, but trust the Lord, that as he leads us and directs our thoughts for Him, we agree to not be able to know for sure, for the the heart of a sinner, who’s every thought is to sin, is also being changed, by turning to God!
    We can only tell by the fruit we see!

  67. Charis says:

    “but if he is teaching the Word of God outwardly, than who am I to judge his insides?” -Gary

    OK, I guess you’re right about that.

    But I do think his wife and children- behind closed doors- will see the manifestations of his flesh if he has just been trimming rotten fruit without addressing the root.

    Since no one is willing to “break his legs”, she’ll eventually wind up in divorce court and then everyone will feel ever so sorry for him because he just looks so pristine and whitewashed.

  68. Charis says:

    Gary,

    To me, we weren’t “debating”, just discussing. You just let me know if I am ever stepping on your toes and I will stop, OK?

    Much Love,
    Charis

  69. oneg2dblu says:

    Sin knows no boundry, so the churches walls are not the church, but the directed hearts of the Followers of Christ, are the church!
    God can use the worst of sinners, who will preach His Word, to bring those whom He has called to Him.
    If he chooses a Pastor who continues to sin, but also continues to preach, then those who hear the word, continue to benefit!
    I grew much, In the Lord, from the passion of a gifted preacher, who also suffered sexual sin addcition, but he brought the Word of God into the House effectively.
    He also stepped down, as he repented to and confessed his trespass to his church, and that is when I believe, I saw him as bring fully human, and repented to God as well!
    But the consecquences of his sin, that he had to suffer, and his church suffered as well, for sin takes many vicitms, and as more than half left its walls,
    and found other churches to worship in! I know for I worship elsewhere. God does move us in and out of the walls we put up, in the places we call church!
    As, I believe He even uses this blog to church us!
    “Where two or more…”

  70. oneg2dblu says:

    God gave me steel toes! He seems to be a very powerful magnet though, as I can’t run away from Him!
    You blees me with this discourse, it is my most valued use of words, other than praying, ” Which is something I heard that fallen pastor say, and say with great emotion, that only comes from the heart of someone, who bleieves what they are saying!

  71. Charis says:

    In Greek the word translated “church” is ekklesia which means “SET APART”. I don’t think that is merely a “legal condition” like being written in the will as an heirs. I think that those who are truly “SET APART” will be identifiable by their love. (Jn 13:35)

    The testimony about your former pastor illustrates what I have been trying to say about the flesh being the problem (the “sins” merely a symptom). WHEN he finally gave up the fear of exposure and gave up hiding from God and the congregation; When he finally died to himself, to his fleshly desire for self preservation; When he finally “gave up his life” instead of trying to “save it”. . .
    that is when his ministry produced fruit.

    “Listen carefully: Unless a grain of wheat is buried in the ground, dead to the world, it is never any more than a grain of wheat. But if it is buried, it sprouts and reproduces itself many times over. In the same way, anyone who holds on to life just as it is destroys that life. But if you let it go, reckless in your love, you’ll have it forever, real and eternal.” John 12:24-25 The Message

  72. oneg2dblu says:

    You are right, as He did lose his family as well, but through the Grace of God, much healing has taken place, and they are restored today! So, that is also the outward appearance of fruit that produces in me, the knowledge that when we are changed by God, we can produce a better Walk, than our sinful nature and own desires produce!

  73. oneg2dblu says:

    I know that passage well, and I too have died to the old self, a live for Christ, as you, or we wouldn’t be wasting ourselves on such matters! He has called me, by my name, and knew me before he knitted me together in my mother’s womb! He gave me free will and I chose the world first, for 47 years! But, I knew of Him from the seeds planted in me, by that Gift of a Mother he gave me! When, to me through all my senses, all outward apperances my life was over, my mother no longer of this world! I called out! He, Answered! Seed once buried, became ALIVE in Him, became he called me, by Grace, to Repentance!

  74. Charis says:

    And THAT (12:29) is what it means to be BORN AGAIN!

    Before: old man, first Adam, hiding from God, denial, self justification, self righteousness, perhaps a whitewashed tomb looking real sharp on the outside, dead inside

    After: NEW man, transformed into the image of Christ (the second Adam), naked and unashamed walking in the garden enjoying intimate ongoing communion with God sharing the GOOD NEWS with others that they too can repent-change mind, die to self, be transformed, and enjoy “times of refreshing which come from the presence of the Lord” (Acts 3:19)

  75. oneg2dblu says:

    The Message is a blessing, crafted for the Heart, with words easily understood! I love its way of talking to my lack!
    We cannot use it for Doctrine, but it is, a very good teacher. It is not the Bible, and Peterson is not God, but his interpretations, lead many to understanding difficult passages. So, it is something that has provided much for me, as well!
    I like it, as even the Book of Revelation, which is not so easy taken, can be helped greatly by it!
    When we search, we find much, and the Message helps!

  76. oneg2dblu says:

    Have to go, enjoyed all! Be Blessed as God Provides!
    Gary

  77. Charis says:

    CYA, Gary. Thanks for the discussion! Tomorrow, school starts so I’ll be scarce.

    The Message is a paraphrase. Other English Bibles are translations (which needed a translator, who sometimes puts his own slant into the translation). I recommend extreme care and due diligence looking at different translations and into the concordance at the Greek words.

    While I enjoy the Message and will sometimes look to see how he expresses a verse I have in mind, I find Peterson way off the mark at times. Is he reading into it: tradition? wishful thinking? who knows? Eph 5:22-24 for example- I am not a believer in “husband leadership” and I really dislike his take on Paul’s lovely teaching. I don’t think that is what the passage teaches at all! Else where does that leave wives such as that pastor’s wife you mentioned whose husband was living a double life? where will she be “led” by a hypocrite masquerading as a shepherd of the flock?

    Ananias and Sapphira of Acts 5 come to mind again. Ananias went to church and PRETENDED he was giving his all but was really holding back on something hidden in the dark closet. Sapphira made the HUGE MISTAKE of being led by Ananias and agreeing with him to lie to the Holy Spirit instead of being led by the SPIRIT! Husbands who want a Sapphira wive who will “follow them” are not inclined to hear their wives when their wives point out the telltale signs of uncrucified flesh.

  78. poohpity says:

    Mart, Peter sounds like a coach who helps to remember the love we first knew learning that Christ died for us and we are forgiven. Remembering that our faith is even a gift from God. If someone gave you such wonderful gifts wouldn’t you want to get to know them better and better. As you said above, “A similar danger is found in Bible study or church attendance that focuses on moral answers that don’t lead to reliance on what Christ has done for us… or on a wisdom that leads to PRIDE rather than humility.” It would seem when we want all eyes on us and the things we say and not on the wonderful gift that was given to us by God we think we EARN God’s favor.

    When we get to know God better and better we then put aside as Peter says, “our own desires” the results, we will become patient and godly then learn to know others and to love them. I know for myself I want people to know God because of the overwhelming love we have been shown and as we know God better we really truly understand His infinite power and understand more clearly exactly what grace means.

    Peter is an excellent example of how the Lord, in this process of knowing Him, developed his personality to one the Lord could use to help the church grow in dependence on the Lord to work in us for good. There is no pride in process but humility knowing that we are not there yet.

  79. poohpity says:

    It would seem the difference we see in Peter from when he was with Jesus from the initial call through the denial to the restoration was three years and then to him penning these letters was about 34 years. So it is amazing we can see the growth in Peter over the time spent with the Lord. Even in his writing 1 Peter was three years. It just adds to the truth of the process of growth we have been blessed to see.

  80. poohpity says:

    I wish I could say the same for myself over the last twenty one years. It seems to be stages but sometimes they seem to take steps backwards and the fight with legality until I return to focus on my first love and keep my eye focus on the Lord.

  81. oneg2dblu says:

    Charis, 1:33
    We do seem to relish parceling each others words! I wonder why that is? Glad to see, as I look back now, some other voices, I missed them and thought the time went by with just the two of us “making points,” if you will!
    Yes, paraphrase, is the “right” word, I knew that, but it would not have given you, an “extra point” to correct my imperfection! LOL I suppose it isn’t really a matter of intentionally mis-leading anyone into the pit of deception! I’m sure every point you have made about the verses you have given in the Paraphase called the Message are valid. Although, I have not researched each one out, to pick away at you interpretation of disagreement with them, I do know, we cannot use that “book’ for our Doctrine. So, I’ll keep that point, even if I say so myself! oops!

  82. oneg2dblu says:

    Mart,I have not read the Bible as a, through and through challenge, but, I am doing so this year! What I have gleaned in my “shallow exposure; compared to others who contribute here. When God in His word mentions, Seeking WISDOM, he does not link it to sinful pride, but I could be wrong on that point as well, and await correction!
    Peter, if I’m not wrong, was described as the Rock upon which, Christ said, “I will build my church!”
    Peter, without theological degrees, or advanced studies, or commentaries at his side, using only the Old Testament references, and having only walked with Christ for three years, gave such a powerful message that it brought thousands, three I believe, to salvation in one day, when he preached it, just as God told him to!
    Yet, Peter’s words, though really God directed, listed certain sinful behaviors of people who “will not,” Enter the Kingdom of God. They like the OLD Ten Commandments , are probably the most ignored, today! I wonder why, he was given such Hard Words, like Moses was, that we seem to render them useless, for Our Modern Religious Ways!
    Couldn’t he, In His Love for others, find a better way?
    Just a thought, not a criminal trespass of my twisting words, for my own wise and prideful benefit. Only a question, posed with humility, which I trust God is working in me, through His holy Spirit, looking for an answer about the “Omission,” of those, who accuse me of not finding the same type of Omission in myself!
    Have we relabeled sin, to create a double standard, or a Divided House? Is the Old Testament useless to us, with our new lofty standards of this New Inclusivness?
    I wonder who is controlling this New Agenda, in our now divided churches? While some have adopted this social reprieve, and are now condemning ALL who do not agree
    with them! Has God changed His Mind?

  83. oneg2dblu says:

    Daniel 2: 19-23 is out of context perhaps, but it reads so well!

  84. oneg2dblu says:

    Hey Bloggers: Here’s a Miracle, find it on the web,Jeff Martin cbn, check it out!
    We have not, Because We ask not!
    We have big mouths here, but for Christ, we question
    where it tells us to be, instead of producing miracles, we sometimes only produce strife with our words! God has a better way, if we really listen to His Still Small Voive and Obey! Be Blessed! Gary

  85. poohpity says:

    Yes Gary, Peter said, “But anyone who asks for mercy from the Lord shall have it and shall be saved” Acts 2:21

  86. plumbape says:

    I’m really confused now..? Is this going to be on the final exam and if so,,,, who may I ask is qualified to correct the test.? Surely not this person Peter. I mean he “only” walked with Christ for three years… Are you kidding me…? Using “only” Old Testament references. Hello… they were living and writing the New Testament. If I were you I would seek the Lord’s forgiveness and do some soul searching.

  87. Jason says:

    If I have not love – a Christian perspective
    It doesn’t matter how eloquent you are. If your words and actions aren’t motivated by godly love, all your words amount to nothing more than useless noise.

  88. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    When the Holy Spirit is in us and directs our words and actions anything is possible.
    One minute Peter was in a room waiting and praying then He was baptised in the Holy Spirit as promised by Jesus, next he found himself speaking words of life and salvation to thousands in their own tounges.
    Like you said Plumbape, “Hello… they were living and writing the New Testament.”
    Isn’t that what we should be doing today!
    Read Acts chapter 29 and beyond, it gets a little rough around the edges towards the end don’t you think?

    Bob

  89. plumbape says:

    LOL, right on Bob.

    By the way, said some prayers for your ex partner. Just keep doing what you are, man. Jesus will get a hold of him sooner or later. Amen

    Be Blessed
    Michael

  90. Regina says:

    Good Morning All

    I’ve enjoyed reading the comments in this blog. Hope you all will have a great day today.

    Fog cover in Texas this morning.

  91. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Thanks for praying Michael,

    I am just keeping quiet at the moment and waiting for God to break into the situation. I feel for his new partner as he is under pressure from his muslim family to conform and under pressure from my friend also to “conform” to his feelings. From my friends facebook wall, I get the impression that his new partner is in emotional turmoil and reluctant to takr legal action to escape his arranged marraige.
    Very difficult situation.

    Bob

  92. Charis says:

    Gary (6:25),

    I only used The Message once in quoting. My personal favorite translation is NKJV but sometimes I scroll through the translations @ Biblegateway to see if another version (or the Message) strikes me in making the point. The Message was quite lovely and clear on in that case.

    In retrospect, I shouldn’t have gone on and on in that comment. My bad.

    I had no intention of parsing your words nor getting “an extra point” by correcting you. That is all in your perception (coming out of your own heart), not at all in my motivation.

    I should have stopped after saying that translations are just that- translations (and The Message is a paraphrase) and sometimes they lead astray. I know that from experience. Thus I often use and recommend use of a greek concordance- available online at biblos or blueletterbible

    I am sharing my experience, strength, and hope with no intention of “scoring points”.

    Off to nursing school now. Thankful for decent roads today as school is an hour drive one way on a good day.

  93. Charis says:

    Perhaps I err to assume that discussion is OK on this blog?

    Perhaps it’s more like a 12 step meeting where I am supposed to share my “experience strength and hope” and then quiet until everyone else around the room who wants to shares. And there is NO cross talk, ie there is NO discussion at all, just a taking turns speaking.

    Seems I have offended Gary and perhaps Jason 12:52 by engaging in discussion here?

  94. SFDBWV says:

    Charis, I applaud your efforts for going to college and taking up a career in nursing.

    I can think of little that can place a person in the midst of anothers suffering more than being a nurse.

    I don’t recall your age, but from the conversations you have had, I would guess that you are older than most of the other students.

    I have a friend who is the head of nursing at a nearby nursing home. She did not go to school until she and her daughter went together, at the University of Virginia.

    My son Matt has a friend who is in her third year of school. She like my son is 32, young but still a mother and a wife. She has little time for anything except her studies.

    I hope the roads are always decent for your drive to school.

    Steve

  95. oneg2dblu says:

    poohpity… 10:23 Yes, if it were not for His Mercy we would not be here! Good point!

  96. oneg2dblu says:

    plumbape…. great handle! I will take your advice,
    but, by what standard do I apply this soul search, you speak, is the a test?
    Here’s the way I look at God’s testing, He keeps testing us until we pass! If we fail a certain portion, we keep being tested with it, until we finally get it.
    Isn’t the very first point we encounter, the test of Our Faith found in the very Lost Soul, He searches and tests!Gary
    PS I do like ban-nan-as!!

  97. oneg2dblu says:

    Jason… I do agree, but if we love this world, we have love. If we love doing sinful living, we also have a love. So, is the love you speak of the one that doesn’t cover all ills of man, it only covers man’s ills!
    I do not love sinful behavoir, I detest it, and so does the Word of God, as I recieve and apply it.
    I can turn the cheek, when being struct by the evil man, he’s corrupted, but i wiil not turn the cheek on the evil that makes him strike, that I detest!
    Because MY VIEW doesn’t align with others, doesn’t automatically make it wrong, unless it is wrong for them.
    I think I may have used too many words, which is wrong in your view!!

  98. SFDBWV says:

    The last two topic discussions has had me reeling from both carnal knowledge and spiritual knowledge.

    Whereas I have hopefuly been very clear in my personal thoughts that trying to lace modern pyscology into scripture is at best folly.

    I also understand that people tend to think of themselves as knowing the pyscology that makes up another and likes to play psycologist.

    To me it is all, as Jsaon alluded to as just being, *noise*.

    The conversation Paul had before Felix and Festus and Agrippa, was not about their social ills or their need to adopt any programs…Paul preaced the Gospel of Christ…

    If we are to present any programs other than the Gospel of Christ. Or if we don’t place any social programs under the guidelines and *authority* of the Gospel..We too are just making *noise*…

    Steve

  99. oneg2dblu says:

    Bob in cornwall… I do not believe Paul had at His disposal, in his hands the New Testament!!That is what I was trying to say, but, What others heard, and want to re-write is, what they want ot say, not me!
    Yes, he was being directed to write it! No question about that boldness he had. “To your point,” Shouldn’t we be writing it today? NO, it is already written!
    We should live by it, as, “IT IS WRITTEN!”
    Today, the evils that lurk in man, are attempting to re-write it to suit their bent! Trust me,
    God knows it doesn’t need any help, from us, corrupted man, re-writing it to suit, a corrupted society!
    He, “God” wrote it for a corrupt society, to give them
    structure, that will not allow sinful behavior, to celebrate, Its moment in time! We should know better, but we choose to live, differently!

  100. oneg2dblu says:

    charis… two points on that! LOL
    Yes, you are Bad, we all are.
    It is Why, “we know” we need HIm, as our center!
    Basket Ball talk? No, just plain truth!
    I think I just got a point across!SCOOOOORE!
    Of course, all my points should point to Jesus,
    being the Center of Our Lives! Love that song!
    Happy travels, and hope you pass the test when it comes.
    I have many Registered Nurses in my life, and I know that many due not pass the State Boards the first time!
    You already get a “passing grade” from me! Gary

  101. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… we are to love people, and love God!
    Christ said,we are to Hate Evil, strong words!
    I do not run any social programs myself, but my church has many, for anyone who God calls into the House!
    We as a church feel directed to help people “change” their, Out of the Will of God Behaviors!
    We do not see those behaviors as a benefit to the Christian Walk, but a stumbling block for others who think they “are” acceptable!
    Does that mean we are being Legalistic, or caring?
    I guess each man has to decide for himself which way he will live, and what he wants to call himself.
    But, if you call yourself Christian, you had better be walking within God’s Guidelines, or you are not showing
    to me, you are Walking in my My Master,s Footsteps, Following Jesus!
    Gary

  102. poohpity says:

    The topic was “Walking the Walk” and because we are on the computer it is very difficult to view another to see if they are walking the walk or just talking the talk. We have been given the bible and the lives of those written in the pages but as far as with those who post they are just words. James tells us to listen much and speak little I think it is because he understood that we are all on the same journey to be students to the Master. If I am honest about my walk with the Lord there is still so much to learn and through the grace of our Lord I want to be open to learning but if I am speaking all the time then my ears or heart are not engaged to be open to the voice of the Master.

  103. poohpity says:

    Off topic I apologize. Do any of you know a probate lawyer that practices in California on a contingent basis?

  104. oneg2dblu says:

    poohpity… sorry I can’t help with your lawyer needs.
    So, I’ll respond to your post prior.
    Walking the Walk, on this blog, has to involve us using our speaking, while learning from each other’s voice as well. I know for me, I’ve learned from you, because you used your voice. I’ve been frustrated, and blessed!
    It is in the exchange of all ideas, we grow the most, and when others post to you, or even others, you respond.
    What better topic could we be talking about, than Walking the Walk?
    This blog site has engaged, enraged or caused reeling as Steve said, challenged me , changed me! It works as a perfect venue of expression, toward how we talk the walk we are on! I think it shows both our cennectedness to our Lord, and the exasperating separation we find, in each others comments as well.
    But, the ultimate end result should be, a balance of truth and application to the Word of God! I know you don’t like the “should be’s” and if you hadn’t expressed it, I would not have known, other than we are all human, and do not like to be told what to do from others, but God put us on this site, to be all we can be for each other, and learn!
    I did a search on the word EVIL on biblegateway this morning, it spoke much to me. So, I thought I would share. I wanted the New Testament View, which started around page 15. Gary

  105. poohpity says:

    Thank you for the feedback.

  106. foreverblessed says:

    This topic is about walking the walk,
    I will tell how my walk as a christian was, and how it is now.
    (Thanks for keeping posting onego2dblu, in posting we get to know each other better.)
    I have to tell you that I am brought up in a very legalistic church, meaning to say, that Jesus was the one who gave us Salvation, but after that we would go back to the law as a guide in life. The better you keep the law, the less you need Jesus forgiving your sins.
    So the preaching was on sins and avoiding sins. And explanations how wonderful the 10 commandments are, how they cover the whole of life, and to flee sin, flee fornication. and study the scripture to show yourself approved.
    And to not only belief, but also show works

    You know, after years and years of this theaching, which was by the way all out of the bible, people get worn out, totally dried out, and of no happy heart.

    God knows for every person what is needed to be preached to them. And in His wisdom He has sent people on my path to tell of the love of God, of His comfort. I have been comforted for years on end, and He still does that.
    And I still do not get enough of His love, or I will fall back into this legalistic approach in following Jesus.
    I can rest in faith in Jesus.
    And I agree that God will test my faith, but He also assures me that He is at my side, and giving me all the help I need.
    I feel it as a test from Him that I still have migraine, the testing makes me stronger. but I thought it was well enough now, but it is still going on. So yes, we can exhort one another: Hold on to your faith in Jesus.
    Romans 8
    38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    But as for me, I think you have to preach living in faith in Jesus in the beginning, in the middle and in the end, and somewhere in between you talk about an admonition.

    What is walking the walk: It is burning your boats behind you (leave behind your old life, and your old man), and you start following Jesus. And He knows the path, and we do not know it, it is done in faith, totally relying on Jesus, and what He tells us. It is a small still voice, we need to learn to notice it, to concentrate on it, to have our eyes fixed on Jesus. He wants us to know in the first place who we ARE in Him, before we DO anything in Him.
    And thath took me some years of reassurance every morning: In Jesus I am His child, I am His beloved, and He is mine. I believe in Him, “Jesus, I ask for more faith”. For without faith it is impossible to please God.

    And instead of preaching how wonderful the commandments are it is of so much more value to preach how wonderful Jesus is, in Him everything that is of lasting value is there, and in focussing on Him we get His life flowing through us, cleansing us slowly of our dark parts, cleaign us, healing us, strengthening us.
    Acts 17:28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
    And one more verse, which now means so much more to me:
    Philippians 1
    9 And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10 so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ, 11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ—to the glory and praise of God.

  107. Jason says:

    Charis, I wasn’t offended by anything you said. To be honest I was referring to Gary’s posts. I have never met you Gary and I don’t intend to pass judgement as only God can do that. When I read the majority of your posts I get the image in my mind of clanging cymbals. You seem to be harping on the same point over and over. I understand that man is in a fallen condition as the result of Adam and Eve making a choice. Personally I don’t like sin either and do my best to avoid it. I also know we all fall short in our walk. It just seems like your trying to force something that should be left to the Holy Spirit.

    God Bless

  108. bubbles says:

    The wise saying when one points a finger, four are pointing back at your own self is true.

    The parable about seeing a speck in another’s eye when there is a plank in our own is important to keep in mind.

    Jason, I agree with what you have written 100%.

  109. Charis says:

    Jason and Bubbles

    Do I hear you saying I’m a clanging cymbal?

    Ouch.

    1 Corinthians 13:1
    If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

    The things I have learned were very difficult and painful lessons and I believe with all my heart that God has taught me things. When I share, I wish I could spare people from having to go through such deep water and such hot fire. I want to protect them just like I want to protect my children.

    And you don’t think I have any love?

    That really hurts.

    If there is a hell, its a place without love.

    Goodbye.

  110. Charis says:

    I’m sorry so many of you have taken offense toward me. I’m sure you must be right about some of your judgments.

    But, Gary, I do thank you for the discussion (and Deb earlier on another thread). I printed out 19 pages of NT scriptures on judgment and hell a topic about which I have doubts about its existence and have been meaning to examine. So far, I learned that hell is a place without love.

    And there I’ll stop. Seems the way I think, write, post are a misfit here.

  111. Jason says:

    I wasn’t referring to you at all, Charis. Sorry if you were offended you by what I wrote.

  112. oneg2dblu says:

    foreverblessed… I love writing out your blog name, it always blesses me.
    It reminds me of Our Eternal Inheritance in the Kingdom!
    It exemplifies, Grace Freely Given, Faith that is proved, Blessings Bestowed, and Promises Fulfilled!
    No Downside… accept for we sinners can fall away,
    and we sinners do fall away, and find that we need restoration, and the more quickly we address that, the more Powerful our Faith and Our Walk for Him becomes! We fall, we see our fallen condition, we call out for help,and He helps us, He picks us up, and we Walk on with Him again! Fully restored, fully His!
    I’m very sorry Adam wasn’t legalistic, for if he was, the entire world as we know it, would be without his sin! But he took the advice of his mate, over the “One Commandment of God,” and the rest of this garden mystery, is written history! Because of Disobedience, a Sin laden nature befalls God’s perfect creation, and all offspring are infected!
    We know the rest of the story, Thank God, and no thanks to Adam, for we do suffer from the ever reaching spread,
    of sin’s self desire to have us! Only God can correct that, through the Grace of God, and through His Son, we become God’s Born Again,children. For He has the Power over Sin, and we have Our Victory in Jesus! We are Forever Blessed!

  113. bubbles says:

    Charis,
    You were NEVER in my mind when I posted earlier tonight.
    Why would you even think so?? It had nothing whatsoever to do with you.

    All day long when I said anything, it was misunderstood.

  114. oneg2dblu says:

    Jason… you read my mind, and found me out!
    I wish I had read yours before I posted again, that very same drumbeat, booming in your head as well!
    You never get to know someone or something until you live with it for a while. I lived with Sin long enough, and can recognize it in its most deceptive form, for my discerning spirit, I have lived with as well, and thank the God who gave it to me, and the allows me to use it for Him! He thought it should be in His most important book, and I think it should be in our most important thoughts, or it becomes distantly muted, do the the worldly noise all around us! I’m a broken vessel,and a broken record! Sin separates us from God! Whether you turn the sound of it up or down, doesn’t matter, it is still able to have us, unless in Him, we are able to resist and overcome it! In our own strength, we always lose that battle! I must have a green thumb, I’m forever in the Garden, so,there may just be a reason, Oh Yeah! That IS where Adam also, WALKED DAILY with GOD!!!

  115. oneg2dblu says:

    bubbles… you were not misunderstood by me!
    Your voice rings loud and clear. From your lips to God’s Ears, I only wish you The Grace and Mercy you so lavish! May He continue to Bless you Abanudantly beyond what I deserve! But, my voice is always for Him, and those who are called by His Name! We are both mis-understood by many, but we are His! We are Even Hated, if we believe all he Word of God. Gary

  116. oneg2dblu says:

    Charis… we all love you!
    Sometimes we must offend, and for that we are accused, and guilty, but we do it for a higher calling!
    Not prideful embelishment, but a Godly Endeavor!
    “He was crushed for our iniquities, the punistment that
    brought us peace was upon Him, by His wounds, we are healed!”
    What better verse, is there to nurse, a Servant of the Lord?
    Be Healed!

  117. oneg2dblu says:

    Let the abundance of words not confuse us, into drawing up against each other, a line in the sand where a message given, becomes a resounding symbol!
    I’m sure, even the voice in the wildreness, was repetitive and waring sound, upon its intended!
    I’ll endeavor to elucidate more explicitly!
    Being slow to anger, is a virtue we all need to exercise
    often,when engaging in an open forum! I do have a mirror, and see myself as well!
    Do, I hear an “Amen’ in the House?

  118. Jason says:

    Hi Gary, I apologize for singling you out. We are all different, thank God, it would be pretty boring if we all had the same thoughts and opinions. Please consider this a cyber handshake.

  119. Regina says:

    Thanks, Bob (Cornwall)! :) 1-17/1:37 am

  120. bubbles says:

    Charis,
    You would be directly addressed by me if I were responding to anything you have written.. . just so you know in the future and will not be upset by what I have said.

    Why did I even bother to say anything in the first place? It’s not worth it.

  121. poohpity says:

    Today in ODB “An Open Book” It read at the bottom of the page “If someone were to read your life like a book, would they find Jesus in its pages?” Very convicting for me.

  122. Jason says:

    One of the best things I learned from 12 step programs is the serenity prayer.

    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

    I can’t change people, places or things. I have the ability to change some things about myself. I leave to God to change what I can’t if it is His will.

  123. poohpity says:

    Jason the rest of the serenity prayer reads;
    Living one day at a time;
    Enjoying one moment at a time;
    Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
    Taking, as He did, this sinful world
    as it is, not as I would have it;
    Trusting that He will make all things right
    if I surrender to His Will;
    That I may be reasonably happy in this life
    and supremely happy with Him
    Forever in the next.
    Amen.

    I love the whole prayer.

  124. poohpity says:

    The original first part read;
    God, give us grace to accept with serenity
    the things that cannot be changed,
    Courage to change the things
    which should be changed,
    and the Wisdom to distinguish
    the one from the other.

    It was adopted by AA in the 50’s although it was written in the 40’s cool isn’t it. It was originally for a sermon.

  125. Jason says:

    That prayer always lifts my mood and does bring serenity to me. It also helps clear my mind when I get muddled.

    We’ve been having temps of -30 celsius which is -22 fahrenheit for the past week or so. Today it finally broke and was -7 C or 19 F. It’s also snowed a lot lately so I’ve been getting excersise shovelling. When I take my dogs for walks they have to wear mutt-luks(boots) and jackets. I’ll believe global warming when I see it. lol

  126. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Garry, January 18, 10:22 am

    You entirely missed the point of what I was saying.

    I was not talking about re-writing the New Testament 18th 1:33am, I was talking about living it out today.
    Where is the commitment, where are the miracles etc.
    Acts 29 and beyond is the New Testament of our lives today!

    Sometime it is hard on here to see the full meaning of what is said.
    Words do not always convey the true sense if not acompanied by expression and body language.

    Bob

  127. foreverblessed says:

    Reading your comments written last night, I had to smile a little. Posting here is very effective in developing the qualities Peter writes about in 2 Peter 1:5-7
    goodness, knowledge, self-control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness, and love.

    For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

    I also like to think of the context:
    the next verse says: But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
    He has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins!

    That is an amazig statement. And the meaning is so profound, if you think about it more deeply.
    Forgotten that past sins are forgiven.
    ….

  128. oneg2dblu says:

    Thanks, there was an Amen in the house, but it was given
    for another reason than the one I opened my heart for, and passed a word along for all! I guess only the guilty among us, would be capable of giving ANY WEIGHT to my attempt to bring an ere of civility to our expression! I’ll may have failed in context again, to recieve even one Amen! Not for myself, do I want them, but for the collective voice among us! To that I speak, with a pure heart, and innocent lips! Order in the house is demanded by a greater authority, them my human, WORDS CAN EXPRESS! I give “those words” back to you Lord!Amen!

  129. foreverblessed says:

    O dear, just after oneg2dblu I saw that my comment could be taken differently. I did not mean to say that any of you is falling short in these qualities, just that it is good in posting here in developing these qaulities.

  130. oneg2dblu says:

    Jason… your cyber handsshake, is taken as the Amen to my Soul! Back at you! Gary

  131. oneg2dblu says:

    poohpity… thanks for sharing the rest of the serenity, found in that prayer. I only knew the abridged form, but found it complete for me, the day I discovered it,through the Leading Hand of God, not my wandering, on my own! Gary

  132. oneg2dblu says:

    Bob in corwall… of course I missed your point. If that is what you took away from what I wrote. But, we are on the same page, In Christ, and even though at this time, I do not see His Face or Body Language,either,I have Him inside, and looking inside, I see more than words!
    What I meant to say….it seems to me in this… what was Once Called, a Christian Nation Under God, it now has appointed judges, who are changing God’s Word, for societies bent!
    If that feels directed at you personally, I take a turn to my cheek and say, I am not hunting people, but Souls!
    I just don’t use the same application the the “perfect one” would, because I do not yet possess, His Face or Body Language, but, a perfected body awaits us both. Praise God!

  133. oneg2dblu says:

    foreverblessed… we, I think, had better see the sins forgiven in us! But, we will never know the pain of all the other’s forgiven, or what Our Saviour had to Endure for the Sins of the World!
    We do see through a glass dimly, and that probably protects us as well, with the Faith and Uderstanding we now possess! In His Love, Gary

  134. christinal says:

    This post is so very welcoming for me.

    I’ve never read 2Peter before, and even if I had I think I would have missed the purpose of what Peter was trying to say.

    Acknowledging what you saw in Peter came just at the right time for me. As a new, and struggling Christian, I’ve always had a hard time reaching and overcoming the hump of perseverance; I’ve started to read the bible many times, only to stop shortly after.

    I’m in a place where I can feel a “next step”, without understanding what, why, or how to welcome and acknowledge it.

    Thank you for this post, truly; as the verses (and understanding) are perfectly timed.

    Christina

  135. poohpity says:

    Christina, hang on to God and allow Him to take you safely on this journey and we all struggle at times. :-)

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