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Bin Laden, Jesus, and us

Photo by: vaxZine

Justice in the Bible is often linked to God’s concern for those who have been hurt by people like Bin Laden and us.

For most of that reason we are rightfully thankful when dangerous people are apprehended. We are reassured by the thought that the offenders of our children will have their day in Court.

But does God love us more than the terrorist, especially when we hurt someone else with silent contempt, or with tongues that according to James, are “set on fire by hell” (James 3:6)? (The issue here is a matter of persons, not  whether God loves good more than evil)

Jesus died either for some of us, or for all. Unfortunately, depending on which part of the Bible is quoted out of context, or by moving from the Bible to speculative philosophy, his followers even disagree among ourselves about that. But in either case, He did so in behalf of a God who loves mercy and justice, because he is both good and loving.

A question that might be worth thinking about is whether we would be angry at the thought that maybe, just maybe, the terrorist had a change of heart, and fell on his knees before Jesus for mercy, five minutes before being brought to human justice.

Improbable? Yes. Possible?……

What if he was our son? What if she was our daughter?

Can we find peace in and among ourselves by realizing that the Jesus who died to show how much God loves us will be the same One who will judge the living and the dead, and that he will judge rightly– on terms that may or may not line up exactly with our own?


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54 Responses to “Bin Laden, Jesus, and us”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    It is always refreshing to hear from so many new voices when Mart makes the topic the monthly email subject. My personal thanks to all who have taken the time to speak their mind.

    Whereas I personally think it in poor taste to make a public spectacle of ones self and especially in order to play to a news camera, I also understand that it is a way for some people to feel this assassination a victory.

    As I have watched the news (as little as possible) the last few days, it has upset me that the parading people and chanting sounds exactly like the Islamic countries that play to a news camera every chance they get.

    It would seem we are becoming just like the rest of the 3rd world, especially like the radical mid east Muslims. That thought sickens me.

    However I consider the blame to be the out of control sensationalism our modern news service has become. There are no end of clowns who love to play for a camera and it seems that these news teams looks for them and avoids the quiet silent majority of Americans.

    Instead of centering on the huge humanitarian effort of the recovery and the story of the severe weather that has impacted so many in our southland. The news service wants to pick apart every detail of an assassination of a national enemy, and I may say an enemy to peace.

    However if we are now entering into the assassination business of all evil people in the world, I have a few questions.

    Who decides who is to be marked for murder?
    Is it just foreign enemies or do we consider home grown people in this list of people who need to be eliminated?
    At what point on the horizon is it then that we choose entire groups of people to be enemies of the state and so need “eliminating”?

    It may be time to take a breath and look at what we are doing and where it will take us.

    Revelation should be becoming more and more clearer to everyone; the spirit of the anti-christ is dwelling among us and growing in power.

    Cold rain this morning in West Virginia, 39 degrees.

    Steve

    PS forgive me Mart when I went to post this on the last topic I seen you had changed the topic, so I am bringing it forward to this one, as they are related.

  2. SFDBWV says:

    It always bothers me when we are chastised for quoting scripture some consider out of context. Jesus quoted scripture in that same manner and most all of Christian publications do it as a way of discussing any subject.

    The problem may be that some do not like what the scripture has to say.

    If we are not to make short statements by quoting scripture, without the complete overview and explanation of the entire story and interconnection of all scripture, then we are silenced by reason of unreasonable restrictions.

    One can make the argument that there is no longer any need to quote any of the OT as Jesus is the fulfillment of it and so only quote the NT. Some then may go to the next extreme and only feel it proper to quote Jesus exclusively.

    I think is dangerous to make people feel as if they cannot feel free to express themselves through quoting scripture even if only one line at a time.

    If one feels that the quote may need further explanation, then do so, don’t make a person feel as though they have committed some faux pas by quoting a line of scripture they feel expresses what they themselves feel states their position.

    Steve

  3. fiyameta says:

    I have been enjoying reading this blog since…
    I just felt uncomfortable with the following comment from Steve,
    ‘It would seem we are becoming just like the rest of the 3rd world’
    Civilization has nothing to do with Christianity.

    Blessed day,

    Fiyameta

  4. BruceC says:

    I would never deny anyone the “thief on the cross” chance of forgiveness and salvation; however improbable that may seem.
    And I also do not like the idea of large crowds chanting and yelling over this event. If the war on Islamic terrorism ever ends then that is the time to celebrate; just as was the end of WWII. But I don’t agree with Steve on this. The people in the US are celebrating the elimination of a blody killer; while the 3rd world mid-east nations danced in the streets over the death of thousands of innocents.
    I for one didn’t watch mush more of the news after the story came out as it is just going over and over the same thing.
    Unfortunately we now live in a 24/7 news cycle thanks to cable news TV and radio; whereas those not so long ago got it daily in print or once a day on TV or radio.
    From what I read in the Bible, God’s standard of judgement is based on faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross and nothing else. That is “Good News” for anyone!!!!!

    BruceC
    Soli Deo Gloria!

  5. SFDBWV says:

    When we lower ourselves to the conduct of our enemy, then we become no different than he.

    Steve

  6. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Coppied from the previous subject as I feel it needs to be said again!

    “Now, from over here, I am begining to see a terrible attitude of celebration in the USA, not so much on this blog, but in general.
    Beware my friends, the devil is about to Bight you!”

    I am afraid I agree with Steve on this and the USA is acting like any other Fanatcal relgious country.
    As for calling it “3rd world” I feel that is an injustice to the many cultural and civilised countries there are in the so call 3rd world.

    Steve used the word “assassination” and rightly so.
    This was murder by the state and no justice at all.
    I remember when Salmand Rushtie had a Fatwha put on his head and he had to hide away for many years, just for writting a book that critisised Islam.
    I know Binladden was responsible for many thousands of deaths, but he also was entitled to a fair trial etc.

    I am afraid the USA is no better than a big bully in the playground trying to impose its will on others.
    When is war justified and when is it terrorism.
    Or is the USA just a state that terrorises others into submission.

    Until the USA takes charge and condems these celabrations of the death of Binladden, that will cause severe retaliation on your nation and others, I will not comment further on this blog as this blog is based in the US.

    Bob

  7. Toml5169 says:

    Bob
    I don’t mind your comments at all in fact appreciate them. I remember seeing pictures of people crying all over Europe when 9-11 happened almost 10 years ago. I too found it very disheartening when Americans were dancing in the streets over the death of a person who did not in all likelihood did not know Jesus. Steven died praying for those who stoned him and as a Christian I refuse to celebrate the death of Bin Laden. I am glad his terror has ended however another will probably take his place and I will continue to pray for the light of the gospel to penetrate the forces of darkness; bringing life rather than death.

  8. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    The USA also owes an apology to Pakistan for invading it’s soveriegn territory without even a phone call.

    The same happened when the USA invaded Granada a few decades ago. The Queen was head of state there and should have been notified via the foreign office.

    It seems the gunhoe attitude is creeping back into US politics.

    Maybe time for the christians to stand and be counted!

  9. SFDBWV says:

    Since my thoughts have generated more response than those of Marts topic, I feel compelled to extrapolate so as to defend my position. And apologize once again to Mart.

    It doesn’t upset me that others disagree with my thoughts; I am not offended by them unless they should get personal or totally misunderstand what I have attempted to say.

    Having said that, Bob and perhaps flyameta are correct on calling me on my use of 3rd world as an adjective, as it does place a people beneath my opinion of how I expect the culture of my country to be. So my apologies for a poor use of terms.

    When the USA won it’s independence from England we began an annual celebration every 4th of July. It is a celebration of our independence not a celebration of the death and suffering of our enemy.

    Our forefathers as recently as the end of the 1st World War marked a celebratory date on the calendar of November 11, so as to remember the fallen of that war. Not to celebrate the death and suffering of so many but to remember how horrible war is and it’s cost.

    At the end of WWII the celebrations that broke out and the parades to honor our soldiers, sailors and Marine’s were to celebrate the end of the war, not the death of our enemy.

    Has the past 10 years been a war against only Osama Bin Laden? With his death is the war now over? Can all our troops now come home to victory parades and the good life at home?

    I will repeat my last comment; “When we lower ourselves to the conduct of our enemy, then we become no different than he”.

    Steve

  10. oneg2dblu says:

    Mart, Got Jesus? Is never out of context!
    I just do not get why quoting of the Word of God seems always to be out of context for some, and right on, for others!
    I do know that the “rest of the world,” that huge part aside from us believers, does not find the Bible to be part of their context!
    To say Jesus died for some or all, is something that “we should know by now”…can never be solved to fit everyone’s desired belief system.
    The question should be, If we all follow the same Master, why does He speak so differently to each of us? Is it His speech problem, or our hearing problem, or just our lame mis-understanding?
    Would we give a college prep class to a first grader?
    Yes, so many new voices, to try to answer so many new questions, about the same things… Do we Believe the Bible? If we do, What does it say to us, and why should we be ridiculed for expressing what it does say, by others saying, We are out of context?
    Nothing gets solved accept the confusion of those who look at us as fools following different ideals!
    When will it end, this constant discouse of possibilities?
    Just like it did for OBL, “like a thief in the night,” did his final hour come upon him. Was he prepared? I think not. But, what I think, or you think, will not change God’s Plan…”His Sheep, Hear His Voice, and Obey! Got Jesus? Gary :)

  11. peterpugliese says:

    1 Samuel 18:6-7 (New King James Version)
    6 Now it had happened as they were coming home, when David was returning from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women had come out of all the cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet King Saul, with tambourines, with joy, and with musical instruments. 7 So the women sang as they danced, and said:

    “Saul has slain his thousands,
    And David his ten thousands.”

    Admittedly so we live under the ‘New Covenant’, but how do you read a passage such as this one and consider it in light of today and what’s been taking place?

    Thoughts…..

  12. djkeyboard says:

    Mart’s comment concerning taking the biblical text out of context is valid. In fact, people who take verses and twist them to meet their own agendas is prevalent and has been the basis for many cults and doctrines taking people far away from the original intent and use. Jehovah Witness’ for exampled used to teach that they were the 144,000 in their original doctrines. They changed their position after they discovered they had more than 144K people in their denomination.
    Without meaning to stir the pot,GR has it’s own person of interest changing the meaning of verses in order to take away the characteristic of the Holiness of God in an attempt to make Him look less judgmental and more loving.
    So Mart, thanks for the reminder that there are those who will use scripture to make their own point, as opposed to using scripture to clarify God’s point.

  13. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… it seems your position on context has bent a little, and now it is in line with mine! So, be prepared for battle among the “context rules” group!
    Maybe some do “play” to the cameras, I know “Our President” can’t seem to ever get enough camera time!
    How do we ween ourselves, or our leaders, from this always seeking to be seen or heard?
    We live in the Information Age, and everything is always, IN VIEW! Let me say it this way, “Everything, accept our constant sinful living, which is then justified by either ourselves, or our courts, and even the Leader of this Nation, which was at one time,unrestrictively Under God, but is now not even allowed in certain Hallowed Halls of corrupted man!”
    Thank God, we have, “The One True Leader,” Jesus Christ, who stands only on only one side of each issue, the Right Side!
    I say,”You either, Got Jesus, or you are Lost Forever!”
    You can quote me on that! Sorry I can’t give the full teaching on the context of that quote right now, but it is somewhere in the Bible! Gary

  14. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… I told you! :)
    If it was all about Doctrinal Stances, Biblical Translsations, Interpretations of Tongues, and
    Following the “Right” Religion, we would ALL miss the boat!
    Christ Jesus, Alone, is the Water of Life to me, and that floats my boat just fine! But, I have those ugly
    Baptist Roots you know, so water is always around somewhere! LOL
    What is the “True Word in Context,” that causes all this constant questioning to go away?
    Jesus Christ, “IS,” God Almighty!! Any Questions?
    Take it up with Him!
    So sunny and bright down here in Fla. Gary

  15. djkeyboard says:

    Christ Jesus is the only way for eternal life. Thanks for the reminder Gary. Uh, isn’t that what scripture says? Hmm.
    I love those who think the personal relationship with Christ somehow lives outside the realm of the Word of God. The Word is how we get to know the Who. Perhaps a review of John Piper’s book, “Think”, is in order here. The practice of study, parsing, questioning, understanding and digging deeply into the Word is the companion in our lives to developing that deeper relationship with the person of Christ. Without this, you may be suggesting some element of mysticism into how we relate IN Christ. How you can pit a personal relationship with Christ against the rightful dividing of the Word of God, is beyond me.

  16. poohpity says:

    I am so thankful that it will be Jesus who will be the final judge of the living and the dead and only His judgments will be right. It is so obvious if that were left to human beings it would be disastrous, self serving and self seeking. It is only God who can see a person’s heart.

    As far as what Mart was talking about regarding context is that some believers think either Jesus died for some or whether He died for all. Depending on different context or philosophies. So Mart’s statement was taken out of context. :-)

  17. florida7sun says:

    In reading blog comments I envision the debates that took place among rabbis throughout history. Learned men, they lacked understanding. They often spoke as blind men attempting to defend their scholarship and righteousness. Questions led to questions that led to questions. Times have not changed.

    “The LORD confides in those who fear him; he makes His covenant known to them.” – Psalm 25:14

    There are trained pastors and teachers with seminary educations that lack understanding of the Word of God. One-on-one, Jesus provides answers in due time to all seeking His embrace and enlightenment… and nothing more.

    He has a plan for each of us. It unfolds over time, as we are transformed into His likeness.

    Some digest milk; some pablum; and others meat.

    As we seek Him with all of our hearts, His Spirit reveals His Truth through His Word.

    “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.” – John 8:12

    As we focus our sights on Him who died for us, there is no division.

  18. poohpity says:

    So no need to get defensive, divisive and in attack mode. You guys are so funny.

  19. poohpity says:

    I think a new cuss word could be “CONTEXT” because it causes so many to see red. LOL

  20. annalisa says:

    The idea of rejoicing in the physical death of another seems to irritate my spirit it does not sit well within me.I also find loving my enemies (those with an evil tongue or deed) an extremely difficult challenge though that is a work in progress I practice everyday with His help. (I’m work for Jesus).

    I also experienced & witnessed first hand 9/11,(I live in NYC & watched from my kitchen window these horrifying events unfolding & the aftermath that lingered & still lingers in the heart). I also truly believe I am “born again”/ “saved” although I prefer the terms redeemed or forgiven. Bin Laden had the same opportunity we all had in accepting or rejecting Christ surely he was aware of Christianity (he professed was his enemy) & we’ve all seen the tragic losses of his fanaticism. All in all… he was just a man; like us. The difference is he was powered by a different force (we know him as the evil one). Bin Laden was only an expendable minion. There are others.

    I suppose the media is obligated to give attention to the death of Bin Laden b/c it is news worthy. Yet such a politically charged issue though I choose not to get involved in the merits of politics. Our leaders are just men too we need to continually pray for them & our nation only God can know the motives in the hearts of men.

    I am sadden by what appears to be rejoicing by the people in this nation at the same time I feel justice has been served to this individual; unfortunate for him, he choose to serve another, hence his demise. The way I see it goodness has prevailed over evil in this instance. Why? has it taken so my lives in collateral damages along the way, I can’t even begin to understand! Only God knows. Will it spark reprisals & the next evil monster to come forth; perhaps so, but only He knows.I do not believe we can change the course of God’s plan or prophecies revealed in the Scriptures. I only know all things are happening according to His plan. I know my job is to love Him, trust Him & demonstrate love to others as Christ has done for us. So easy for me to write that, say it, but monumental for me carry it out at times! A special prayer for all the families who lost a loved one at the hand of Bin Laden & those who served in the mission to locate Bin Laden. They must be overwhelmed with feelings & thoughts resurfacing their losses. And my friend & sister in Christ (JS)that you be comforted by the peace of Jesus, NO ONE can snatch us from His Hands. Jer 29:11 Bless you all, I give thanks for each one of you, I read your words everyday & am grateful for the kinship we share & the feeling from your’ hearts & spirit.

  21. oneg2dblu says:

    annalisa… your words are a “balm to many” here, as we all try to put this world in its place, according to God’s Word and Plan. We all really do get it, but we are not all always agreeing, on how we get it!
    Your suggested methods, Love, trust, and demonstrate Him, that is where the “Real Jesus: in US, can be shown to be truly, Alive and Well! Bless You, for your contribution is a most valid endeavor, one that we all need to work out! Gary

  22. tracey5tgbtg says:

    In the opening post Mart asked, “whether we would be angry at the thought that maybe, just maybe, the terrorist had a change of heart, and fell on his knees before Jesus for mercy, five minutes before being brought to human justice.”

    I would not be angry about that at all. I can’t imagine wanting someone, no matter how enslaved to evil they are, to not see Jesus as He is in His glory. I believe it is possible, by the power of the Holy Spirit, for them to see the chains that have bound them, and to beg for His forgiveness and saving grace.

    Jesus even saved the demon-possessed people who did not ask for forgiveness, but rather yelled at Him, because He knew it was the demons speaking, not the enslaved person themself.

    I can’t imagine thinking someone was too bad and deserved justice because I myself am “too bad for heaven and don’t deserve to go there.” It is only by His grace.

    I confess I don’t watch the news much at all. You do not get the whole truth; you get a version that is manipulated to sell by tugging at people’s emotions.

  23. oneg2dblu says:

    Pooh… yes We are, *funny*, and You are one of us!
    FYI… cuss words are always four letter words!
    “DARN ITAN YHOW!” :)

  24. poohpity says:

    Context does not bother me. I actually rejoice in learning how it enhances gaining knowledge of our Lord and the bible. ;-0 There are passages that can stand alone like “love your neighbor as your self” but that can even be taken further to address the issue of “who is your neighbor?” or “What is love?” then one has to dig deeper into scripture.

    I guess the question would be what reaction happens to the person who hears “that is taken out of context” whether they feel defensive or angry or whether it causes them to go and read the scripture again and get a more clear understanding. One response is prideful and the other is humble, realizing we do not know it all.

  25. SFDBWV says:

    I am only 63 years old and so have not lived as long as some others. In my limited memory I do not know of any other occasion whereby any people anywhere celebrated the death of someone. With the exception of our Christian celebration of Easter.

    I do however know of a future event where people will dance in the streets and celebrate by the exchange of gifts with all the gusto of a great triumph over an enemy, because of the death of two men. So happy that these two are dead that their bodies will lay unattended to in the streets where they were killed.

    However after 3 and ½ days the Spirit of the Lord will resurrect these two and they shall stand up and amaze and cause great fear to fall upon those who see them, then a voice from heaven will say come up hither and they will ascend up into heaven in a cloud while their enemies watch. (Revelation 11: 8-12)

    The story I have given is out of the context of the book of Revelation and is only part of a larger story.

    Steve

  26. onlycharis says:

    The Scripture is clear that the Lord is not willing that any would perish, but that all would come to repentance–righteous or not. I hope bin Laden did repent.

    ObL was not the enemy; Satan is. He is the murderer, and has been the murderer since his prideful fall.

    It’s sad, if not ironic, that ObL’s death occurred so quickly after a recent SS class about persecution in Mt. 5. We talked at length about loving our enemies. I brought up the issue of loving ObL. The class grew strangely (for our class) silent.

    Jesus created and loved ObL just as He did the traitor Judas. At times in our own lives I suppose we all have acted as a traitor to the Lord. Thank you Lord for not forsaking us when we so often let You down.

  27. SFDBWV says:

    Wanting to move forward I would like to address the thoughts of Mart concerning the possibility of Bin Laden accepting Christ moments before his death.

    Only he and God know that answer. However in a more different time when we tried a convict for a capital crime and he was found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and sentenced to die. He was given that opportunity to confess the Lord, ask forgiveness for his crime and accept his punishment. Or step off into eternity without the grace of Christ’s blood, to judgment from God.

    I am also reminded of a scene from the movie “Malcolm X” where Malcolm is walking to a meeting expecting that he was going to be assassinated, he was nervous and preoccupied with his thoughts, when he was approached by a little old lady who told him not to worry her Jesus was going to take care of him.

    Somehow that didn’t make him feel any better.

    Steve

  28. bratimus says:

    One last comment or thought:

    One nation under God?

    The Nation united over the death of Bin Ladin, is this good and real?

    A nation that can’t unite under the sacrifice and love of the Risen Christ, is this real and good?

    One nation under God?

    Give the facts a fighting chance

    As many will be saved as come to Him.

  29. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I know! I wasn’t going to comment again, But!

    What Steve said about the two prophets in revelation is so true.
    They torment the anti christ and speak againts him and when they are killed the whole world will rejoice.
    But Our God takes them home and proves to the world who is in charge.
    I am reminded of two things here.

    one: The Royal Wedding the other day, nearly half the world watched it live, as they will these two prophets.

    Two: Also the death of princes Diana.
    “One Nation under God” was mentioned.
    We do not use that phrase as we are a United Kingdom of four nations, but when she died all four nations were united in grief. There was nowhere you could go to escape it.
    It has never happened before in our 2000 year history and will probably never happen again. Such is the power of todays media.

    “one nation under god”
    But for what reason and purpose?

    Bob

  30. poohpity says:

    I think people from all over the world were grieved at the death of princess Diana because they felt the death was not justified. As to her behavior and whether or not she had a relationship with Christ both her and her husband were having adulteress relationships did either deserve the death penalty sure they did according to the law they were to be stoned. Does that justify her death? ONE big component have they ever excepted Christ as their savior. All of us deserve the death penalty because everyone sins and falls short of the glory of God except ONE and that ONE took the penalty for the sin of the world.

  31. bookfinder1 says:

    Princess Diana and Mother Teresa Died same day.
    OBL and David Wilkerson died very close.
    Diana and OBL made the head lines. I’ve had to search my heart to understand where my heart was and is in Christ. (Love all the comments. You are all very wise and thoughtful.)

  32. bratimus says:

    Bob,

    Every school child in the USA at one time could tell you where the phrase “One nation under God” came from. It was the pledge of allegiance to the Flag. and the Line after One nation under God, indivisable, with liberty and justice for all.

    I can only speak of things of the U.S. that is my terrortory.

    there are those that are trying to ommit the One nation under God part. Even the Majority leader of the senate already ommits the One nation under God part when saying it.

    I was trying to make a point that the death of Bin Ladin is what a lot of people are looking at isour stand against evil.

    But how can we stand against evil when we don’t unite with the one who has already defeated evil at the cross.

    Speaking from the U.S. side of the pond.

  33. royalpalm says:

    Poohpity, I remember you and your son – my earnest prayer is that may God’s love and peace reign in his heart…

    My personal feeling on Bin Laden is of great sadness because of the great deception tht he believed in. His zeal and passion was for the Allah that he served. He was fighting for the righteousness that he was taught. As you and I desire to honor and serve our God and heavenly Father, this was also his motivation in his holy war against “infidels and apostates”. Bin Laden made sure that his legacy lives on by establishing Al Qaeda and schools to teach and train his followers to die for his cause. He used his position and wealth towards accomplishing his goal.

    It is for him and the whole world that we are commanded to go and tell the good news that righteousness is not
    earned – it is freely given by God to everyone who believes in Jesus and what He has done to pay for our sins. Rom 3: 21,22″ But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known,… This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe…” Christ has empowered us with the Holy Spirit and given us His word to guide us.

    Imagine what God can do through us if we have the consuming desire, conviction, zeal and passion for God and His work that Bin Laden had for his cause! Jesus established His kingdom through self-denial, suffering and sacrifice. Unless we die to our selves and take up our cross, and follow Him, God cannot use us to reach people who are walking towards or following blind leaders to destruction.

    As Bin Laden had his jihad (holy war), We, too, are waging a holy war, a spiritual battle. (Ephesians 6:10-13)As Paul wrote to Timothy in 2 Tim 2:3,4 “You therefore must endure hardship as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier.”

  34. poohpity says:

    Thank you very much for the continued prayer for my son and I. It is much appreciated and needed. The Lord has answered prayer for help to move this weekend for both the move and the clean up. I get the staples out of my stomach tomorrow after my emergency appendectomy 2 weeks ago. I am still not feeling up to par and it probably doesn’t help that I keep overdoing it by the packing and the cleaning I am doing. This will be my first time living completely alone with no kids or room mates. A new adventure that I wish I were more joyful about.:-(

  35. bratimus says:

    Revelations 13:1-3

    1)Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blashemous name.

    3)Now the beast which I saw was like a Leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.

    3)And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded and healealed. and all the world marveled and followed the beast.

    I’m not trying to put anything in context or out of contexted. With this Bin Ladin thing that seems i can’t get away from. When i went to go pick up my nephew from school someone metioned Bin Ladins name.

    It seems to me everyone is falling in to the devils sceme and marveling over a dead man. Getting all caught up in the hoopla of the death

  36. saled says:

    “Justice in the Bible is often linked to God’s concern for those who have been hurt by people like Ben Laden and us.” Powerful opening, linking us to Bin Laden.

    One thing about Bin Laden, God would probably never call him luke-warm. I guess he would be called very cold. Isn’t there a verse that says it is better to be hot or cold than luke-warm?

    I’m not sure if the Bible can be used to back this up, or if it is just an idea I ran across, but I have heard that people who are in power actually have less control over their actions than common people do. Think of the Pharaoh who refused to let Israel leave Egypt. Think of Judas. We’ve discussed before how they were used for God’s purposes. If there is any difference between us and them, maybe it is that we have asked God to use us for his purpose.

    The world knows about the people hurt by Bin Laden, Pol Pot, and Hitler. They don’t know about the people hurt by me. But I can testify that Mart is right when he says, “. . . hurt by people like Bin Laden and us.”

  37. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Brat, I do understand the American Constitution and the ” one nation concept” But your nation is seen as evil by 70% of thr planet.

    That does not bode well my friend.

  38. poohpity says:

    Wow, Bob, I can tell where you have been. How can a nation be evil? I believe that would be the people of the nation and everything is common to mankind no matter where a person lives.

  39. bratimus says:

    Bob,

    Have u heard me claim that the U.S. is righteous. I believe the U.S. is on a slipery slope that is leading to it’s destruction. Like i also said being a U.S. citizen I can only speak of the U.S. point of view and not another nations goodness or badness. The U.S. is my terroritory.

    There is an old saying “people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.”

    The one God concept isn’t in the Constitution, the God concept is in the Declaration of Independents.

    the right to worship is in the first Amendment of the Bill of Rights

  40. tracey5tgbtg says:

    I don’t think Bob was saying that America is evil, but that it is perceived that way by other countries. Believe me, the news people receive is different in different countries. Many muslim countries see us as “infidels.”

    We are judged by the movies and TV shows that we produce and that are seen around the world. Shows that are full of sex and violence and killing and drug use etc. That is how we are all perceived to be by many countries. Also, that we are litagation happy and suing everyone at the drop of a hat. Not to mention full of our own self-importance.

  41. bratimus says:

    anybody else notice that even in death the name Bin Ladin leads to conflict.

    Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.

    Just trying to balance out the write and spoken names.

  42. oneg2dblu says:

    While the *nation blasting* is in full swing, I would like to offer up this one question, “Isn’t it also that 70% who do not Identify with Christ being their God, as well?”
    They are Christian Haters Bob, and I find that refreshing, because they still identify the US as a “Christian Nation” unlike Our President, and that alone, FUELS MUCH HATRED!!!
    Popularity amonng those nations you speak of, to me is not a righteous endeavor, but godly principles are!
    They all hate Israel too, Bob!
    So, we could blame it on our democracy, and our freedoms, they they do not have.
    All things that are seen as evil in this world, may not be seen as evil to OUR GOD, and those Who Follow Christ!
    Let’s keep this 70% in context to what they judge as evil!!
    Great call pooh… a nation is only its people!
    In that respect, or context, all nations are guilty of not measuring up to the standards of Almighty God, and should be condemned! But for Grace, do we as people,
    find how to “Stand Against Evil,” as defined by God!
    Everybody has an opinion, but God has Full Dominion!
    I would rather be that, “One Nation Shining on a Hill,” and be hated by them, rather than be any of those other nations, who see us as evil! By what measure do they Judge? Who puts them in charge? If it isn’t Christ the Lord, I do not care about their opinions! Gary

  43. oneg2dblu says:

    Bratimus… sounds like you’ve got a speach impediment!! :)
    P.S. Thanks for not keeping your mouth shut!

  44. oneg2dblu says:

    tracy5tgbtg… many Muslim countries see us as infidels?
    I wonder…How do they see themselves?
    You are right, Bob may not be calling the U.S. evil, but he does think that a call should be made before you go to war, that is really quite a stance, that one would find telling your enemy, when your coming!
    I wonder if we were called prior to Pearl Harbor,
    as they didn’t like us very much either!
    Just a thought, but wasted because we should be thinking other things, on a “higher level” than Satan is taking us now!
    So, I’m done with him, the evil one, with all his name calling. NOT you Bob, but Satan, who rules the air waves now, but will soon be contained FOREVER!

  45. Daddypopp says:

    I find it disturbing and distasteful that some of us here the States celebrate a death with singing and souvenir t-shirts.

    Don’t get me wrong I think justice was served. But I think it should be a time of somber thanks to God, not a party. I wrote a blog post about that just last night. Then I walked away thinking “I just couldn’t express my thoughts on the matter very clearly.”

    As for God’s forgiveness. Yes, he forgives us if we as repentant sinners fall on our knees and ask for it. But, we as human beings cannot understand how God can forgive ultimate evil. I was in NY during 9/11 and I have a hard time accepting it.

    But I don’t think we are meant to understand it. It is a matter of faith, just like everything else in our beliefs as Christians. A faith in God, that he understands us better than we do. As much as justice was served in Bin Laden’s death, the final justice belongs to God.

  46. Regina says:

    Good Evening All

    Want to comment on Mart’s comment… “Can we find peace in and among ourselves by realizing that the Jesus who died to show how much God loves us will be the same One who will judge the living and the dead, and that he will judge rightly– on terms that may or may not line up exactly with our own?”

    Was thinking about this exact thing the other day when a relative posted a (supposedly) death photo of OBL, and another fb relative, and so many others, were seemingly happy and relieved that he was dead. Don’t get me wrong, *he did reap what he sowed,* but I thought to myself, what if he repented before he was killed? That thought came to my mind because a spiritual mentor of mine had posed that same thought about someone else who was on the America’s Most Wanted list.

    Like you, I didn’t think that it was probable that OBL repented (had a death-bed conversion) but definitely possible. OBL committed some heinous crimes against humanity, but the blood of Jesus could’ve definitely covered all of his crimes and then some!

    “The Blood…”
    The blood that Jesus shed for me, way back on Calvary;
    The blood that gives me strength from day to day,
    It will never lose its power.

    It reaches to the highest mountain,
    It flows to the lowest valley.
    The blood that gives me strength from day to day,
    It will never lose its power.

    Am also totally at peace with the fact that our LORD Jesus will judge the living and the dead and that His judgments may not line up with my own. He’s my God and I’m thankful to be His servant. He’s my Father and I’m thankful to be His daughter. He’s my friend and I’m His friend. He LOVES me, and I LOVE Him. Thinking of that Bible passage, Judge not lest ye be judged… the same measure that you meet out against… will be measured back to you (I paraphrased).

    Sunny and warm in Texas today (76 degrees).

  47. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I don’t think the USA or any of us fully realise what is happening and about to happen as the anti christ takes over this world in the last days.
    Believe me we are nearer the end times than many think and are certainly closer than we were yesterday.
    All Nations, “under God” are falling headlong into this trap, mine included.
    But the USA seems to be locked in a blind battle with Islam.
    Just as guilty as they are of doing evil things.
    This has nothing to do with being christian, you in the USA decieve yourselves when you call yourself a christian nation.
    The hate that has built up against you since the second world war is to do with with greed and corperate business attitude.
    This is the end game of time on this planet.
    Those of us that love Jesus and know Him must start to buckle down and hold on to Christ for dear life.
    God said He would shorten these days else the very elect would not come through it all.

    Beware of deception and false Gods

    Bob

  48. Dinakar says:

    Dear All,
    Enjoyed reading all the comments on this post though controversial at times.
    My thoughts tend towards the sovereignty of GOD do we accept He is in control over all that happens in our lives!, is He?
    If I truly trust in God then why do I get perturbed with the likes of OBL. Any fear existent on account of another person apart from Christ portrays a lack of faith to me (or celebration related to it). So to this end I commit my self not to look at people or circumstances around me and to look to God alone.

    Dinakar

  49. SFDBWV says:

    When the nation of Israel was in the wilderness, they became tired of manna and complained that they wanted some meat. Very interesting that God sent them doves. They ate the meat of the dove until it came out their noses. They had fully stuffed themselves with it.

    That is kind of how I feel concerning Osama Bin Laden.

    However, I would like to discuss why we (Particularly the USA) became the enemy of Mr. Bin Laden? What would drive this man to hatred so intense that he would conceive of a plan to murder unidentified targets in an office building so many miles from his home?

    Is it because the USA is envied by these Islamic nations? Is it because their religion not only makes it ok to kill unbelievers (Infidels) but encourages it? Is it because the rest of the world hates the USA as Bob believes? What intense hatred drives the likes of Bin Laden?

    I am left to believe after all considerations, that it is not the USA that these people hate, but it is Israel that is the center of their hatred. They see the USA as Israel’s ally and may I say protector.

    We who study scripture believe that it is God and God alone who is the protector of the nation He created. That in a future time all nations will turn against Israel and at that time the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will once again show Himself and protect Israel from annihilation.

    However until that time is ready, and the fullness of the gentile is come, the USA and her allies have become the big brother of Israel and from a distance keeps the bullies from going too far.

    This is why Bin Laden and the followers of his evil religion hate the USA. How then do we make peace with the devil?

    We can not kill every follower of Islam who has chosen to hate us, so what then is the prize that will bring peace with these people?

    Israel; it is Israel that is the problem for world peace, and this little nation will continue to be a problem for the rest of the world until the end of the age and the long history of man will come to an end, at a place called Armageddon or Megiddo.

    Light frost this morning in the mountains, bright blue skies.

    Steve

  50. sararuss says:

    I have read of those who committed heinous crimes and were sentenced to death by an earthly judge only to truly find God while incarcerated. They accepted this sentence willingly because they were aware of their own earthly deeds but also aware their souls would be judged by a loving heavenly father/judge who would provide refuge to their forgiven souls.

  51. florida7sun says:

    Mart, in rereading your post and seeing the pictures of those killed in Osama Bin Laden’s hideaway; more than ever, I give praise to Our Lord and Savior.

    Bin Laden was an instrument of death, influenced by the prince of this world.

    Are we any better?

    Innocent life is taken daily in abortion clinics in this nation. Blood flows as it did in the land of Canaan. We sacrifice to gods of our own making and deem ourselves to be righteous. The innocent unborn are sanctioned for death. It is the law of the land.

    The seven deadly sins infect all of mankind, and we elevate ourselves and cheer each other on.

    No. Our righteousness is like filthy rags stained with man’s contempt of Our Creator.

    And, we wonder why man is afflicted. As with the killing of Abel by Cain, the shed blood of those slain and afflicted cries out from the earth.

    “It is mine to avenge; I will repay. In due time their foot will slip; their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them.” – Deuteronomy 32:35

    We cannot save ourselves. Praise the Lord that He loves us in this sewer of sin and has given us His Word, inner peace through this valley of tears, and the promise of eternal life with Him.

  52. oneg2dblu says:

    Bob in cornwasll… you have said first, that the USA owes an appology to Pakistan for invading their land,
    then you attack us again, saying that we also did the same thing in Granada, referencing our gunhoe attitude.
    Then, you say others hate us because of all the filth in our society, then, you say it is because of our greed and corporate business attitude, and then, if that is not enough you say the Christian Nation thing is a joke as well! Anything else?
    I’ll try to be kind with my words here …
    The ONLY reason that we allow this filth in our society IS because we are a tolerant, cheek turning, liberal, Christian Nation. We tolerate, were other societies, would surpress, and defy, the freedoms we have. Even, the freedom of speech we have, causes hatred throughout this intolerant world!
    Which Muslim nation, also being non-christian, accepts open homosexallity, equal treatment to women, does not have greed fostering in its leaders, but has freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom to express anything, as much as this, One Nation Under God, and this Christian Nation, America.
    Unfortunately, the humsn condition, our sin nature, lies within all nations, only this nation, the USA, is more tolerant, than any other. Your points are well taken and mute!
    From what I have just heard, England is on full alert, fully expecting, a Muslim Terrorist Event! I am sorry for that is sad news. May God Protect your, One nation under God. Although I disagree with your comments, I still love you, and there is nothing you can do about that! :) Gary

  53. peacedove says:

    America has given Pakistan billions of dollars over the years.Instead of helping to catch OBL,they provided him a sanctuary.That is not playing the game fairly.
    Thank God democratic movements are now drowning out people like OBL.

  54. acaison56 says:

    Hi Mart!
    I agree with your comment that God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked because, according to 1 Peter 3:9, He desires that all repent and come to Him.

    But, what if God raised up Osama (as He did Pharoah, Romans 9:16-24)as a vessel of destruction to magnify His mercy toward us?
    Should we not rejoice that Osama has been stopped, just as Moses and Israel rejoiced when Pharoah and his army was stopped? Did not Israel under Joshua rejoiced after the victory of every battle? They were fighting to take possession of land God had given them; and as a nation dwelling in their land, they fought to perserve and keep what was theirs.

    Taking out Osama, wasn’t it to prevent further attacks and lives lost in our country? I didn’t throw a celebration at Osama’s death, but I did THANK GOD FOR BRINGING ABOUT HIS CAPTURE AND DEMISE.

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