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Would 12 Apostles Take 12 Steps?

In my last post I referred to #4 of 12 Step Recovery that says, “Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.” Then I used Paul’s letter to the Romans as a basis for some soul searching.

In the process of taking my own inventory, I sensed again why 12 Step Recovery has been used in the treatment of so many consuming and addictive problems. Not only is Step 4 consistent with the Bible’s, “Search me and know my heart,” but the rest of the 12 Steps are also rooted in the spiritual legacy of the Scriptures.

Yes, churchmen have often criticized the founders of AA for replacing the God of the Bible with “God as we understand him.” If 12 Step Recovery is regarded as a substitute for a Christ-centered faith, then any number of issues can be rightfully pressed. But I’m thinking that those of us who object need to be ready for another question. Does our way of “doing church” leave out elements of Christ-centered wisdom that the founders of 12 Step Recovery included?

Even in suggesting in my last post the importance of taking inventory, I realize that if “taking inventory” is going to help in the face of consuming problems, it needs a context that is at least as “biblical” as the whole program of AA.

Look again at the Twelve Steps and look at their parallel to the wisdom of the Bible. And if we’re going to focus on what they leave out– are we ready to include in our own “church life” what Recovery does more faithfully than we do?

Twelve Steps

  1. We admitted we were powerless over _____-that our lives had become unmanageable.
  2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
  3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
  4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
  5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
  6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
  7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
  8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
  9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
  10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
  11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
  12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

If we can agree that such principles don’t make a church– can we also agree that if our church experience lacks appropriate Christ-centered equivalents– we have lost our ability to bring transformation to broken people– like us.


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33 Responses to “Would 12 Apostles Take 12 Steps?”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    The 12 steps outlined here are designed to help heal a broken person. AA meetings allow for a person to stand and aknowledge his weakness and need for help among others who share the same guilt.
    You are so right Mart, if church congregations remembered that each one of us setting there were also all guilty of sin in the first degree. We may look at onanother differently and treat each other better.
    When we reach out to the unsaved, we have to show there is no condemnation from us, but common ground in that we are all sinners. Unable to be healed without the intervention of God. Paticular to us, that intervention comes of, by and through Jesus the Christ.
    Thank you Mart, this is a good thought to, as Robert says, “ponder”.

  2. hal.fshr says:

    Mart:

    I value the 12 steps as you do. I think the distinction that needs to be made is that there is a difference between the offices and ordinances that make up a church and the issue of spiritual formation. Since life itself has a way of leading most, if not all people, into an experience of brokenness, the principles of the twelve steps can have a powerful effect with spiritual formation in the lives of many. Therefore, in making disciples in the biblically constituted church and reaching out to the culture at large, the twelve steps can be very helpful. The twelve steps can be easily correlated with biblical concepts of repentance, reconciliation, restitution and recovery. Thanks for your thoughts.

  3. Robert says:

    What a great thought which, when given enough time to ferment in my mind opened a floodgate.

    Do you know how many websites there are in the Internet?

    While by no means precise, in 2007 one survey put it at about 109 billion.

    Would you like to know how I came across http://www.rbc.org? How did I find this lighthouse in a sea of inequity? What were odds?

    I found a copy of Our Daily Bread sitting on a seat in a subway in Washington, D.C. one day about 3 or 4 years ago. The subway car was empty, I entered, sat down and there it was. I picked it up.

    From that point on, things slowly started to change in my soul. It was not a raging wildfire….more like a slow burn. I think that Christ sensed my indifference to Him due to shortcomings I found in my own church and He found another way to reach out to me. It was as if he knew I was slipping away from Him. Oh I wasn’t standing on the edge of a precipice or anything but like so many others, I was just disappearing into the crowd.

    Mart, such principles shown in 12 Steps do not make a church by themselves. You are right. But such principles need to be included in the underpinnings of any church if its followers expect to help mend broken souls. They are basic in concept and fundamental to our Christianity. They are what bring us closer Christ.

    The difference between the God of the Bible and the God as we understand him should be one and the same providing the fundamentals, the underpinnings are there. You see, these are fundamental to understanding Christ and do not change from perception of Him to perception of Him.

    In my case, statues and Holy relics and cryptic prayer that you had to recite 3 times over “lest ye burn in hell” did nothing but leave me empty. Homilies that were incomprehensible in the context of todays life put Christ at a distance.

    And so Christ Himself approached me differently and I’m so glad He did because what He did on that day on that subway was to tell me, “I love you and I want you back. Be a good person, Robert”

    And when you accept that simple statement, you find that following the word of Christ is a natural thing. Sure, we fall down sometimes and we backslide but I like my new relationship with Christ much better. He helps me get back up, tells me to dust off and try again. He offered me a simple foundation from which to restart my faith in Him and it was through Our Daily Bread that he spoke to me and continues to do so.

    And so, to sum up, “YES” with all my heart I would agree that without Christ-centered foundations, a church cannot exist and we, as humans, as Christians cannot bring transformation to others because within these foundations exists the message of Christ, the “Way” of Christ that brings on the transformation in those who need it.

  4. desert rose says:

    I enjoyed the blog and the comments. It is quite a lot to take in at one time. I believe we, as Christians, fall into a routine and we need to remember where we were before we were saved. Great post.

  5. sitsathisfeet says:

    A number of years ago I was invited to a twelve step program hosted by our church. The pastor invited me as he said he was going. Now, he was going as part of his ministry not for a particular “problem” . I decided to go because I am an adult child of an acholohic, with a history of alchoholism down through generations. It really helped me to work through some things, and I was able to use the principles throughout my life. In this case it was really supported by my faith, prayer and church — so even though there were I’m sure non Christian believers there I found it to be supportive of my faith and it’s principles. I’ve also found various resources and programs helpful that are not Christian based to be helpful as well. I think sometimes we as a church fail to implement practical applications for everyday living. Sometimes however we do. For instance, there is a homeless recovery shelter that is a mission to help recovery drug addiction, and people who lost their place to live that is Bible centered. You must participate in Bible classes and recovery from addiction to be part of the program. But for each program like that there are many more “secular” programs out there to help people. Indeed as a Christian I have been hard pressed at times to find Christian based programs and resources. And sometimes I have been pleasantly surprised to meet Christians in these secular areas shining the light.

  6. poohpity says:

    Before I finished my schooling to become an alcohol and drug rehab counselor, I read the bible. As we so often do we look to outside sources to explain what is written in the bible. The one thing about sitting in those rooms of AA/NA is the anger so many have at God because of what Christians have done to them. When the founder of AA finally experienced God he wanted others to have the same experience but wanted to by pass the judgment and condemnation of the people in the church. But it all could be changed if more read the bible with the leadership of the Holy Spirit and were able to reflect on their own inventory.

    We live in a world with so many hurting people, it would be nice if the church were a place of safety. Some many leave the bible to those teachers when a whole world of revelation of God and how he works and how we as human beings have behaved rests in it’s pages. I wonder what it would look like if those who are in church read the bible everyday and spent time with God in prayer. Talk about a revolution!!!:)

  7. drkennyg says:

    The answer to your last question is yes. 12 step programs are not churches nor are they cults no matter how people treat them or use them. There is a lot of blasphemy and bad language used in, for example, AA during meetings which has no place in any Christian program. However, take heart there IS a Christ-centered 12 step recovery program called “Celebrate Recovery ®”. We have meetings at our church (Granada Hills Community Church, in Granada Hills, CA) every Monday evening at 7:00 pm. The principles of that program are based on the 8 recovery principles from the Beatitudes that Christ gave us and the 12 steps you mentioned in your blog. All forms of addictive behavior are accepted and we simply refer to them as “hurts, hang-ups, and habits”. Jesus is our one and only “higher power” and the steps and 8 principles are Biblically based. So we study the Bible and accept all behavior problems which stand in the way of our Christian growth. We separate at some point during the meeting into small groups of women only and men only and follow anonymity and confidentiality so all can be comfortable/open. This was started in 1991 by Rick Warren of Saddleback Church in CA.

  8. plumbape says:

    We have the Celebrate Recovery also at Church of Acts in Indianapolis. The court makes it part of the sentence for a DUI conviction to get there license back. It has a great success rate and leads people to come back on Sunday and or Wed. service to learn about the Great Redeemer. Amen

  9. daisymarygoldr says:

    Must confess complete ignorance about the 12 step recovery and AA program…so, don’t know the answer to the Q-“Will the 12 apostles take the 12 steps?” In the 12 steps listed above, I do see the mention of God and it should not be surprising to see God’s wisdom in the world outside the church. Even non-Christians know and instinctively follow God’s moral laws even without having heard it from the Bible. This proves the fact that God’s morality is inscribed in every human heart, for their own conscience and thoughts is able to discern right from wrong (Rom 2:14-15).

    Church is the body of Christ…made up of broken people… “churchmen” and women* who readily recognize and acknowledge our nothingness outside Christ. We “know” that all our morality and goodness are but filthy rags and without Christ, we are but corpses emanating the stench of death from putrefying sores covering us from the sole of our feet to the top of your heads (Is 1:6). However, God has accepted us in His Son and is proudly presenting us as the “perfect” body of Christ to the seen and unseen powers of this world. Church is His work, He is the one transforming broken people like us, and we are not “doing church”.

    Therefore, I will never find fault or consider the Church as second to anything…Christ will come back to receive only His body the church…not so sure about any other principles, programs, projects or peoples in this whole wide world!

  10. plumbape says:

    Daisymarygoldr> you sure have a wonderful way with words that brings a smile to my face even when I think maybe you took the wrong meaning of something, I thought doing church was a simple way of saying how we are involved and do the things for our church. It is also NOT putting the church second but a way to hopefully reaching people that may not ever even consider the church as an option in there life. I loved you asking Mart once to pretend he was a six year old in your Sunday School class for one day but if it was me you might be dragging me out by my ear while smacking my thick head with one of those big yard sticks teachers use to make there point.:>(
    I drove through some of the part of the desert you spoke of in Arizonia I think. The cacti is incredible some of which are 40 feet tall! God Bless

  11. daisymarygoldr says:

    plumbape,
    The giant cacti are indeed a beautiful reflection of surviving rugged desert conditions as they stand tall and make Arizona proud! It is relieving to know that my words are not taken seriously and you are a good sport…hence, you are spared of the smacking! But you are right…there were times on this blog when I wished I were a grandmother so I could spank people really hard to shake them out of their dreamy stupor and knock some reasonable sense into their thick heads. Not to show myself as superior or a know-it-all, though I am well aware of being perceived as bragging, obnoxious, belligerent, and boorish and not being “humbly right”. This is the family of God and my intent is never to disrespect, demean or correct…but its more a parental-sort-of-concern expressing exasperation at their errant children with questions like: why are they talking like this? The Bible does not teach these things, where did they learn this? How long will they remain as babes, why don’t they wean themselves from milk and start eating meat, why can’t they just grow up? This is my heart and I’m glad you see its inclination, Thank you!

    Speaking about “doing church”, I do see your point about reaching people but what steps or schemes did Peter and John and the other illiterate fishermen Apostles take to spread the word? God gave: Noah, Moses and Solomon a pattern to build the ark, the Ark of the Covenant and the temple but never gave us a pattern to build the Church. Do you know why? He has personally undertaken the work of building His own Church! All that is required of us is to spread the word…the seed is watered by the Holy Spirit and it is the Lord who in His own time and way brings and adds people to the Church (Acts 2:47)!

  12. Ted M. Gossard says:

    Yes, The Twelve Steps you can find in Scripture as part of the necessary process of being changed into the image of Christ, I believe, from glory to glory. This must be a way of life with us as we more and more leave the old way, the in Adam life behind, for the new way in Jesus. But we need each other, in Jesus, to get there, and really do well in this. Too often very lacking in our common Christianity today, I’m afraid. But to be found, and perhaps started by us by example as well as precept.

  13. Mart De Haan says:

    daisymarygoldr,
    In the story of the good Samaritan, Jesus honored an “unclean person” who, in some respects, practiced the Law better than the Jewish priest and scribe who believed that what they were doing (keeping themselves ritually clean) was more important than what they were neglecting (helping a fellow human in desperate need).

    In telling the story, I don’t think Jesus was saying that Samaritan religion was a substitute for the faith that the Scribe and Priest were not practicing.

    In a similar way I suspect that people in 12 Step groups can be noteworthy examples of humility, confession, self-examination, repentance, restitution, interdependence, and mission.

    In saying that I’m not suggesting that 12 Steps are a substitute gospel for the gift of Christ-centered grace, mercy, and right relationship with God. I am saying that when the founders of AA found in the Scriptures the principles that are at the heart of 12 Step recovery, they found a way of dealing with issues that is in some ways more radically biblical than the way many of us (myself included)try to practice a woefully superficial approach to “doing church.”

    No, 12 Step Recovery does not lift up Christ who alone can save us from our sins. But it does offer the wisdom of Christ in facing consuming problems that can be either a threshold introduction to our true “higher power” or a moral and social substitute that may leave us with more sobriety– but still in our sin.

  14. SFDBWV says:

    I didn’t think this topic would still be here this morning. But have found it “interesting”…Last evening We called a few friends some of whom are attending AA meetings and urged them to go to this web site and read the stories.
    I was paticularly impressed with Robert’s testimony. I love seeing how God rescues us, and how the smallest word or action from any of us can have such an impact on others. Thank you Robert for being open and sharing.
    On my wall here above my computer I have, 1 Corinthians 13, verses 1 thru 13. Though I find it very difficult to actualy achieve, I read it daily to remind me of how I am to love and how God loves me, because of Christ.
    Thank you again Mart, for this oportunity to share myself with you and others. Fellowship in Christ is a very important part of our walk.
    Just a question off subject, would it be possible to have spell check included into this blog. I am sorry to say I’m not that good at spelling what I want sometimes to say?

  15. BruceC says:

    I find it interesting about how one of the posters mentioned the anger that many of the AA/NA members had toward “the church” because they found it to be judgemental and condemning. I know there are some that may very well be that way. But many times some of these people take that opinion when they hear sermons on sin and take it the wrong way. It’s a fine line to walk. Compassion and sympathy along with the admission we are sinners also on the one hand, and on the other hand; not afraid to preach against sin. I just recently went through an experience kind of similar to what I spoke of.

  16. mruspm says:

    Putting all the debate aside about God in and out of the 12 steps, the prime benefit for each recovered individual is to get past their own home-grown independence, and admit they need help from outside of themself….this is the premise that eventually leads a willing individual to the concept of a higher power, then to God as they understand Him and in all of this a more productive human being for the benefit of others.

    Yes if we could be so candid, honest, blunt, and unconditional in our Love and Grace in the church-body as I’ve exeperienced in 14 yrs of 12-step programs, we’d take the church to the next level…..my experience in 41 yrs of church is we prefer to live inside of facades and that makes progress slow.

    Thanks again for a GREAT topic !! Have a GREAT day!

    Chris S Warner Robins, GA

  17. SFDBWV says:

    Bruce, it is an old experiance many of us have had at one time or another, when we feel the “heat” from a sermon. As if that fellow is talking directly to me.
    I always figured if I feel offended because the preacher is talking to me, maybe I got some thinking to.
    It is so easy to get our feelings hurt in a church environment. The preacher has a very tough time preaching against sin and not running of the sinner. If we would only remember we are all sinners and no one above the other. But people are people and pride creeps in. One of my own problems is that, I observe every thing around me. That observation will often end in an oppinion. That oppinion is a very fine line from a Judgement. So I try and distinguish between them. Often I fail. I need the love of Christ in everything I do. I hope and pray I am never a stumbling block to another. What we say has great power. The power to bless as well as the power to curse. So I try to be mindful of what I say. Often in that I fail as well. I guess I’m human afterall. Always in need of Christ.

  18. poohpity says:

    Wow some good talk!!! The Holy Spirit is the one who convicts us of sin because He does such a good job with the approach. He knows we need kid gloves because our hearts will become hard if not done gently with the thought of restoration. I have never felt that anyone other than God knows how to address the human condition better than the creator. One thing that AA/NA says is that we are not saints and as Christians we are given that distinction when we accept Christ but not in perfection but in process. We have so much to learn in process that only with the Holy Spirit our hearts become pliable (with the mind of a child)so that love will abound in and through us and we do not become grumpy people. I really wrestle with the grumps sometime but when it is brought to mind I have it in me to ask for forgiveness because I have wronged someone. I can not wait for the day that grump is no longer a part of my thoughts.

    I live by the cacti maybe I can blame them for my being sharp sometimes. lol Just a thought!!!

  19. daisymarygoldr says:

    “No, 12 Step Recovery does not lift up Christ who alone can save us from our sins”- Mart De Haan a.k.a “chief trouble maker”.

    If you had only included the above line in the main topic above, it would have saved us lot of space, time and energy from unnecessarily debating back and forth!

    This is what Paul writes about the “wisdom of Christ”-

    “By God’s grace and mighty power, I have been given the privilege of serving him by spreading this Good News.

    Though I am the least deserving of all God’s people, he graciously gave me the privilege of telling the Gentiles about the endless treasures available to them in Christ. I
    was chosen to explain to everyone this mysterious plan that God, the Creator of all things, had kept secret from the beginning.

    God’s purpose in all this was to ‘use the church to display his wisdom’ in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Eph 3:7-11)

  20. SusieK. says:

    The irony in this question is that, again, in the Word of His own, our Father has taken care of these “steps” before any human ever thought to. If we were to understand the appointed times that are spelled out in Leviticus 23, the annual cycle of these would ensure our personal inventory every year! It is amazing that what man comes to through a back door, the Father has presented to us right up front. The Fall feasts of Rosh HaShana, Yom Kippur and the Feast of Tabernacles are absolutely the same process dealt with in the 12 steps. Leviticus 16 is beautiful in teaching us what Christ has done for us, and how desperately we need Him. To know His Word and to invest in understanding Him would be such a valuable use of our time, even more than the programs of men. That’s when we are really pointing sinners to The Way. Certainly, I mean no insult by what I write. I have loved the work of the Radio Bible ministries for years. It is only to recognize that our Father has covered everything we could ever need, and it’s in His Word. I want to find the answers there!

  21. poohpity says:

    The whole point of this topic is missed again, Matthew 7:1-5. This is what the 12 Steps help with that is lacking in the “BODY” the church.

  22. sought4 says:

    One of the greatest blessings that I have received was to be a participant in a church sponsored program that is completely based on principles found in the Bible – Celebrate Recovery (worldwide program). There is nothing that can match sharing life’s sufferings with other followers of Christ and asking/needing our Savior and Lord, Jesus Christ, to rescue us with His strength while we all journey together. It is genuine, transparent, humble, and liberating. Jesus came for the sick…not the righteous. We all need to share in our fellowship with Jesus, through our sufferings, our victories, and our dependence upon Him. I have found that in some way or another, the Celebrate Recovery 12 Steps (Christ-centered) apply to every aspect of the Gospel. Also, CR implements 8 Principles into the program that are taken directly from the Beatitudes, found in the beginning of chapter 5 from the Gospel of Matthew.

    Farthermore, the reason that people attend CR is to experience worship, a testimony, a lesson, and a time of sharing their brokeness and/or praise in a safe environment with fellow believers. Unfortunately, this is something that I have not yet found in a typical church gathering…with the exception of a previous small group that I have had the privelege of attending. There is no comparison to the spiritual growth and blessings that come from genuine confession.

    Thank you for the topic and thank you for allowing me to share.

    Please see the 8 Principles below:

    8 PRINCIPLES of CELEBRATE RECOVERY
    (based on the Beatitudes)

    1. Realize I’m not God; I admit that I am powerless to control my tendency to do the wrong thing and my life is unmanageable.
    “Happy are those who know they are spiritually poor”
    2. Earnestly believe that God exists, that I matter to him, and that he has the power to help me recover.
    “Happy are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted”
    3. Consciously choose to commit all my life and will to Christ’s care and control.
    “Happy are the meek”
    4. Openly examine and confess my faults to God, to myself, and to another person whom I trust.
    “Happy are the pure in heart”
    5. Voluntarily submit to any and all changes God wants to make in my life. “Happy are those whose greatest desire is to do what God requires”
    6. Evaluate all my relationships; Offer forgiveness to those who have hurt me and make amends for harm I’ve done to others when possible, without expecting any reward.
    “Happy are the merciful” “Happy are the peacemakers”
    7. Reserve a daily time with God for prayer, Bible reading, and self-examination in order to know God and his will for my life and to gain the power to follow his will.
    8. Yield myself to be used by God to bring this Good News to others, both by my example and by my words.
    “Happy are those who are persecuted because they do what God requires”

  23. Robert says:

    Mart, I’ve got a lot of respect for you because you’ve opened a can of worms here and we’re all over the map in the debate.

    Let’s all take 2 steps back though and look at the 3 questions that Mart posed.

    1.”Does our way of “doing church” leave out elements of Christ-centered wisdom that the founders of 12 Step Recovery included?”

    I would say that in many organized churches, the intent is there but the delivery is weak or lost in transmission. It is muddied by perception of personal position in the political hierarchy of “church”. I again cite my “Army of Generals” example. The 12 steps are fundamental teachings of Christ to “be a good person”

    2.”Look again at the Twelve Steps and look at their parallel to the wisdom of the Bible. And if we’re going to focus on what they leave out– are we ready to include in our own “church life” what Recovery does more faithfully than we do?”

    I would say that the answer for those who choose to focus on what they leave out is that they should be ready to do this. If not, their foundations are weak. The only “end” and “final” interpretation to Christs word lies with Christ Himself. We only ever TRY to understand his meaning in the context of the life he lead and how it brings us closer to Him. Let any among us say that he/she truly understands implicitly everything that Christ teaches be the first to call out. We are students and He is our teacher. The falcon never calls the falconer. We remain eternal students of Christ.

    3. “If we can agree that such principles don’t make a church– can we also agree that if our church experience lacks appropriate Christ-centered equivalents– we have lost our ability to bring transformation to broken people– like us.”

    This is much less a question than a statement.

    Anyway, those are just my thoughts on the subject. God bless.

  24. plumbape says:

    I become weary at the end of a long day at my plumbcrazy efforts but I am thankful to be a part of this body of Christ. Thank you Mart and Daisymarygoldr and Robert and Poohpity and SFDBWV and Bruce and all else in Christ. In the midst of turmoil there can be peace and happiness amoung God’s children.

  25. Robert says:

    Amen to that, sister Plumbape.

    …and as my Mother used to say, “May you be in heaven 5 minutes before the devil knows you’re dead” – an Irish blessing.

    God rest my mums soul. As many said, she bore the map of Ireland on her face. “Celebrate her passing,” they’d say “for she’s in a far better place than you are now.”

    “God smiles on the Irish because they make Him laugh.”
    I can atribute the quote to none other than….me, but I can also say that God smiles on us all that consider the word of the Lord and accept Him into our lives.

    Sleep well and be at peace.

    Good night all and and God bless.

  26. poohpity says:

    Mart,

    I have a question that I have asked the Lord for wisdom but would also like to get your take. I struggle with the issue that it seems like we go to all other authorities and authors outside of God’s word to find the healing that is in something written so long ago like the bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit that leads us to all truths about God and how He works. It seems like somebody is always coming up with something new to read or a new program etc. when we have the Word already. I am so confused is it just for people to make money or have their name on something. What is wrong with what we already have? Are we constantly trying to reinvent the wheel? Or to develop a new curriculum? What is wrong with just the basics? Is my confusion justified or am I wrong in my thinking?

  27. keefster says:

    I used the AA 12 steps in order to overcome my alcohol addiction and I found step 4 amazingly healing. It was wonderful to let go of all the hurts I had collected over the years that were dragging me down. It also enabled me to look life ‘in the eye’ rather than feeling I had to hang my head in shame.

    The 12 steps were a way for me to be healed and brought back to a position whereby I was once again sane, clear-headed and of use to the world. Once I had reached that point (which took over 2 years!) I felt God tell me to leave AA and to rely on Him. It was a scary time for me but I am 100% convinced it was the right thing to do.

    I do not hold with some of the teachings of AA such as ‘once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic’ – does this not contradict the teaching that ‘all things are possible with God?’. Also, AA teaches only to pray for what you need, never to ask for things. But the bible teaches us that we should ‘ask whatver you wish’. From my experience, praying the AA way does not allow you to experience the Father heart of God and the joy of being a son to Him. Instead there is always a barrier, a servant/master type relationship. There are many, many other little things that AA teaches that contradict the message of the bible. Reading those 12 steps and knowing the teachings of AA and how they interpret those 12 steps are 2 different things.

    Ultimately, in my opinion, the 12 steps were a wonderful gateway to God, a healing archway through which I needed to pass before I could enjoy a relationship with God. But I do not believe that the 12 steps are a way of living nor are the rooms of AA or other fellowships places that you should stay for life.

  28. Mart De Haan says:

    poohpity,

    My guess is that you are right in assuming the possibility and probability of all kinds of wrong and mixed motives for our obsession with something new. Sounds just like what Paul saw on Mars Hill (Acts 17:21).

    On the other hand, I’m convinced that Jesus, Paul, Solomon, and the prophets regularly reached outside of the Scriptures to find an analogy or something that would help listeners/readers to rediscover what they had learned to overlook in the law and wisdom of God.

    Am sure we’d agree that the danger shows up when we use a token approach to the Bible as an excuse to look beyond Scripture and Jesus. A better option is to use something outside of the Bible to rediscover what we have forgotten about the Scriptures.

    In the case of the above 12 Step post, my intent was to use 12 Step Recovery (which had its origin in the Christian Oxford movement) as a means of helping some of us rediscover the breadth and depth of the Christ-centered wisdom of the Bible. Seems to me there are few things more dangerous than a “familiarity” that blinds us to what we think we know.

  29. poohpity says:

    Mart,

    I have noticed that so many do not have a basis of understanding of the scripture and when one does God tends to reveal more wisdom in it’s pages. I now understand the term the “Living Word”. I asked you this question because as I have said before you seem to have experienced and understand the love and mercy shown in the pages of the scripture as does your wife and Philip Yancy and others that write for “Our Daily Bread”. I find that this is not the norm and to me is such a breathe of fresh air in this world we live in. I feel like that is what we are called to be a breathe of fresh air to others.

    My son is in bible college to become a youth pastor yet reading the bible itself all the way through never seems to be an urgency and I really am confused by that and do not understand. I have wanted to go to seminary but am hesitant because I fear the legalism that I may find or even the lack of understanding. I do know that God has a plan for me and I wait in expectancy for that revelation. I so enjoy RBC ministries and am thankful for all who are involved.

    In respect,
    Deborah

  30. Dasher says:

    The Big Book of A.A. is remarkably similar to the Book of James. There are the A, B, Cs of A.A.:
    A) We were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives;
    B) That probably no human power could have relieved us of our alcoholism;
    C) That God could and would if He were sought.
    It’s a simple program. Co-founder Bob Smith put it best:
    1. Trust God.
    2. Clean house.
    3. Help others.
    It is a design for living. Our problem was never alcohol. Our problem was living life on life’s terms. We needed help, and no human could help us. Lack of power was our dilemma. So we had to find a power greater than ourselves to help us. That’s why the Book was written. To tell the alcoholic how to find that Power.
    Look at the 12 Steps of A.A. Only the first mentions alcohol. The rest point you to God.
    Bill Wilson understood that alcoholics (being their own gods) would balk at the God of the churches. That’s why he made it easy at the beginning — use the god of your understanding. In other words, just stop not believing. Once this happens, then the gateway to God is opened.
    It works – it really does.

  31. sgmen31 says:

    First, this was an outstanding post and blog to follow and what caught my eye the most was your last paragraph:

    “If we can agree that such principles don’t make a church– can we also agree that if our church experience lacks appropriate Christ-centered equivalents– we have lost our ability to bring transformation to broken people– like us.”

    Like many folks I’ve had some “bad times” in life and could again if Christ wasn’t in my life as strongly as he is today. While I am not a fan of the “make a meeting” approach propagated by the AA/NA culture of today I do admire the 12 steps and the initial goal of the Big Book: to provide healing for the sick and suffering alcoholic (sinner). I don’t think the original founders intended for AA to become their “religion’ but by definition AA is a religious organization. That is something people do not like to hear but it is.

    Now, AA does offer some healing and we are to be lights to those in the world so attending meetings isn’t a totally bad thing necessarily.

    I know that I got a lot more out of the 8 hours I did stepwork with a sponsor then I did the 800 or so hours I may have logged over six or so years of attending AA fairly regularly. I found after a time that if I am truly a “new creation” (1 Cor 5) and I’ve confessed my sins (1 John 1:9) then it is time to forget the past and move on to where He would like you to go. I just don’t see how talking about or listening about problems day in and day out (drunk-a-logs, grand-standing) helps. You give it to God and let him handle it and move on!

    That is my take, anyhow, though I do wish more churches took on the Celebrate Recovery principles and applied them to all dependencies and stopped judging those whose issues are culturally considered maybe “worse” others. Sin is sin though I’ll admit that as a human being I certainly see some sins as worse then others.

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