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The Story Behind Everything

Photo by: sleepychinchlla

Millions of miles away, on the reddest planet of our solar system, an ingenious invention we know as The Mars Rover is about ready to go looking for clues to the origins of life.

Let’s suppose that Curiosity’s quasi-scientific/religious mission suddenly becomes wildly successful. Red Rover starts sending back pictures of heat and cold resistant cockroaches, mysterious butterflies and enormous redwoods growing in the highlands of Gale Crater.

Some will conclude that now, for sure we know life needs no God. Others will celebrate a Creator whose fingerprints have been found on another planet. Still others will feel confirmed in their suspicion that unknown space travelers have been at work on Mars as they have on Earth.

Even if the Rover finds a book written in one of earth’s languages and claiming that giant Preying Mantises visited and created life on Mars billions of years ago, the book and its words probably would be accepted by some as truth, rejected by others as lies, and explained by still others as well crafted misinformation.

By itself, no claim or event means anything, apart from an understanding of the  story behind it.

That’s why we keep talking about why it is so important to read and reflect on any and every part of the Bible in light of the story behind it. Any word or sentence read by itself can be hijacked from it’s role in supporting the unfolding drama that climaxes in Jesus’ death on a Roman Cross and his bodily return three days later from a borrowed, government sealed, and heavily guarded tomb.

Sooner or later its also important to begin reading the eyewitness accounts of Jesus death and resurrection in light of everything between Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:21.

Jesus’ death and resurrection are the events that support and are supported by every detail, character, plot and subplot that we find in the New and Old Testaments. These events fulfill and give meaning and proportional importance to the rest of the story (of the Bible and our lives). This is the focus that supports and gives reason for our shared faith, hope and love. These are the attitudes of heart that find their ultimate source in the Creator, Savior, Lord, and loving Judge of our souls.

If we don’t come together around him, healthy conversation about anything within the covers of the Bible, or about anything in the world around us can turn into an argument.

By the chemistry of creative assumptions we can use our imagination make anything mean anything—until the howling hound of reality catches up with us.


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172 Responses to “The Story Behind Everything”

  1. Bill says:

    Mart,

    Good morning!

    Thank you for this post. It was all well written, as usual. But I especially appreciated this part:

    “Jesus’ death and resurrection are the events that support and are supported by every detail, character, plot and subplot that we find in the New and Old Testaments. These events fulfill and give meaning and proportional importance to the rest of the story (of the Bible and our lives). This is the focus that supports and gives reason for our shared faith, hope and love. These are the attitudes of heart that find their ultimate source in the Creator, Savior, Lord, and loving Judge of our souls.

    If we don’t come together around him, healthy conversation about anything within the covers of the Bible, or about anything in the world around us can turn into an argument.”

    Amen.

    I believe this with all my heart. And I’ve been trying to capture it in all of my posts (all my long-winded comments about love being the plumb line that winds its way from the beginning of the Bible right through to the end). But you said, essentially, the same thing (and so much more!) using 1/4 of the words.

    Thank you for taking the time to write this and post it for us.

    I hope “Mart DeHaan and Friends” have a great weekend!

  2. confeticat says:

    The “howling hound of reality” – I like that description.

    The portion of scripture that was on my mind before your blog came in was Luke 16:31: “If they won’t listen to Moses and the prophets, they won’t listen even if someone rises from the dead.” This is what you said and Bill quoted, in reverse.

  3. confeticat says:

    My point being that there is a big difference between knowing Jesus and believing in his resurrection as the summit of Christianity.

  4. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends –

    We have the results of the Mars mission ahead of us, and so we can wonder what will come of it. I enjoyed your” Martian Insectopedia,” Mart! Wonder and delight are part of humanness. Each of us has a million times the apparatus on-board as the Rover – we each are unique creatures who emerge from our mothers’ wombs – so similarly, but so individually. That moment of birth is the Genesis 1:1 of 7+ lives on planet Earth.

    Mart, you wrote of the hypothetical history book that could be found on Mars:
    “…the book and its words probably would be accepted by some as truth, rejected by others as lies, and explained by still others as well crafted misinformation.” To me, that is a metaphor for Scripture.

    It seems to me the way in which each of the seven billion of us receives the fact of the Holy Bible is evidence of the individual weather-report from inside each of our private worlds. Experiencing the Creator of the universe is learned and practiced and handed down in human community. Because of who Jesus Christ is, we are free to seek or to form a community in which acceptance, spiritual nurture and worship of God are celebrated– no matter where we started. In Christ we receive a new family, especially if we need a new family because of what went on in our lives before. Jesus promises “the gates of hell shall not prevail against this community, the church.

    That “howling hound of reality” pursues each of our hearts. Fleeing him, or denying him, or looking away because the truth is unlovely won’t do. In the holy love of Jesus I can turn and face the truth about myself. The whole climate inside can be transformed. Thanks for your post, Mart.

    Blessings,
    Maru

  5. remarutho says:

    My Scripture, not quoted very well, is Matthew 16:18.
    Maru

  6. remarutho says:

    Praying Mantises? :o)

  7. confeticat says:

    “In Christ we receive a new family, especially if we need a new family…” Why would we need a new family? Jesus said to leave the family you already have, whether they treat you well or whether they don’t is not the issue (Matt. 19:29). The issue is, do you love him more?

  8. confeticat says:

    There was not a lot of hoopla around Jesus’ resurrection. It went practically unnoticed except to his disciples, and some of them didn’t believe it at first. As wonderful as it was, as necessary as it was, it was not the culmination of Jesus’ ministry.

    The Story Behind Everything used to be the theme song of RBC. “Tell me the story of Jesus, write on my heart every word, Tell me the story most precious, sweetest that ever was heard.” This is why Jesus came.

  9. Gary Strike says:

    Mart, that is a great thought to read this morning. Thank you for who you are and all you do.

  10. poohpity says:

    Mart, there is that gentle spirit bringing us all back to what is more important and not just on here but God used ODB for today to push the point home as a confirmation. Paul must have experienced the same problems as he reminded the Philippians that we are to be imitators of Christ. (Phil 2:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11 NIV) That says that even if they do find life on Mars even the Martians will bend their knees at the name of Jesus as all life will one day do. I guess there is no time like the present to start.

  11. confeticat says:

    You know, I miss Gary. He’s been gone a long time. Whatever happened to him?

  12. poohpity says:

    There will always be some people who do not believe in the bible at all, some who believe in part and some who understand the whole and our response is what shows who has possession of our heart. Whether parts are taken out “hijacked” as you put it from their supporting roles or are left in context there is always going to be those who will argue over anything “By the chemistry of creative assumptions we can use our imagination make anything mean anything”. Lord, help us see the bigger picture with you in the center of it all.

  13. tracey5tgbtg says:

    The point Mart brought up that no matter what evidence on Mars is found, people will make it fit what they already believe is the part that spoke to me. I believe that was brought up before and it is so true. Why do we try so hard to change another’s point of view with our words? People are not that easily swayed and it would be sad if they were.

    I count myself in the group that will say that the Creator’s fingerprints touch everything to the very ends of the universe. There is no end to what God has touched for He is the Creator of all things. No one can say anything that is going to change my mind on that.

    I know how hard I want to make someone see the Truth, that Jesus Christ is Lord. He is the Son of God. But only God, by the power of the Holy Spirit can reveal Himself to the human heart. He uses us, His body, sometimes, in different ways, often in ways we did not even know we were being used, but we are only tools in His hands.

    I agree that today’s ODB is so relevant to the discussion. Considering, I believe, that each day’s ODB is planned months in advance, I am always touched by how they speak to the moment in which they are read.

  14. confeticat says:

    Why do you assume it’s the other’s point of view that needs changing? What if it’s YOUR point of view that needs changing?

  15. tracey5tgbtg says:

    Sometimes my point of view does need changing, and God usually convicts me when it does. Most of the time it’s because I’m concentrating on what I want and think I deserve to have and I am miserable. When I remember to turn back to God and leave things in His hands, I have peace.

    To God be the glory.

  16. billystan121 says:

    Mart, and gang the most puzzling part of conversations on such topics is the stubbornness of the scientists involved. Most scientific research is based on the repetitive nature in the results becoming truth. If you were to take just one aspect of creation and explain it any other way all you come up with is theory after theory, but nothing provable. On the other if you reverse it and let the Bible speak for itself what you’ll find are verifiable historical facts. His story is our story and our story is history.

  17. poohpity says:

    I agree tracey there are many times my point of view needs changing. I am so thankful that God is so patient with us and is continually teaching us to grow and change and never leaves as we were. The only thing we can depend on is change and hopefully we will see it more and more as we grow closer in dependence and trust in Him. Yes it is to His Glory.

  18. davids says:

    Another thought-provoking post, Mart. There have been so many theological fads and doctrines that have gotten in the way of preaching the risen Lord.
    – The Holy Land must be retaken by Christians
    – The Pope is infallible
    – Earth at the center of the Universe
    – Divorced people cannot be Christians
    – Black people are cursed by God
    – Music does not belong in worship
    – The world will end in 1000, 1066, 1870, 2011, 2012, etc.

    These have led to no end of division within God’s church. They get in the way of the Gospel.

    In every age, these stumbling blocks have prevented people from accepting the Word. What doctrines do Christians hold today that prevent the spread of the Gospel?
    – The Holy Land must be retaken by Jews?
    – Life begins at conception?
    – Universe was created in seven days?
    – Homosexuals cannot be saved?
    – The US is the shining city on the hill?
    – There must be prayer in schools?
    – Muslims are evil, rather then simply people that need to hear the Word?

    I wonder.

  19. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I know for a fact that Homosexuals can be saved.
    So can anyone who calls on the name of Jesus.

    There is no bar to heaven and God’s Kingdom.

    Just our bigoted prejudices that prevent people from excepting the Word of Truth.

  20. narrowpathseeker says:

    Steve, I hope all is well with you and that your absence has to do with pc failure and nothing more serious. I always look for your comments and have not found any for two days now. I will be praying for you.

    Tracey and Pooh…thank you for your humble confessions of those undesired imperfections and the reminder to stay focused and dependent on God for our growth. I seem to need constant reminders that I am not in this boat alone and even if I was, that God is keeping it afloat.

  21. kingdomkid7 says:

    “By itself, no claim or event means anything, apart from an understanding of the story behind it,” is what Mart has stated. The story being everything, then, how shall we tell it? Prayerfully. Graciously. Lovingly. Honestly.

  22. confeticat says:

    Yes, homosexuals or any other kind of sinners can call upon the name of Jesus and be saved (Luke 5:32).

    But we all must be born again. There is that narrow door to God’s Kingdom (Luke 13:24) that many will seek but not be able to enter.

  23. fadingman says:

    Man’s role is to be discoverers of truth (reality), not definers of truth. Since God created all of reality, only He has the right to define what is true/real and what is not. Our job is to find out what He has done. (“It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; but the glory of kings is to search out a thing.” Proverbs 25:2) And He has given us the ability to find out much of what He has done.

    The problem is with weeding out man’s idea of God’s truth from God’s truth. This is difficult because so many of us rely on other men to tell us what is God’s truth rather than finding it out on their own through God’s word.

    If God created life on other planets, He may decide to allow us to discover that life. If so, then that would upset the bit of story some have tried to inject into God’s story (i.e. there is no life on other planets). If there is no life on other planets, the opposite might be true, except it’s a LOT harder to prove the earth contains the only life in the universe. We would have to visit every place in the universe to prove it.

    Another thing is that, while we are finite beings, God is infinite, and He has done so many things we’ll never discover them all. Some of the things He has done are vastly more important than others, and these are the things we need to focus on before going on to the lesser things. It would be terrible to enter eternity with “God, we found the life you placed on other planets”, while He says “I never knew you.” The ultimate Truth we need to ‘discover’ is Jesus.

  24. SFDBWV says:

    In the Bible from Genesis on we read a story about people and God’s use of and interaction with them. However we are only given momentary sections of their life, sometimes only tiny little slices out of their entire lifetimes.

    Adam and Eve, created beings, were never children, but must have had childlike curiosity in wondering all about the world they found themselves in.

    We know they lived, yet have no knowledge of them other than the few lines of Scripture given to actually know how they thought and what they thought.

    After they were left to fend for themselves outside of the Garden of Eden, they had no training or foundation or experiences to fall back on in order to survive.

    Alone against the world around them, what would conversations between them have sounded like? Did they argue or disagree? Did they hold out hope that God may yet forgive them and return them to the life they had? Did they ever cry out to God and beg for help? When Cain was born what did they think, and as he and Abel grew into adult men what would have dinner time conversations have sounded like?

    My guess is that there was way more on the table between Cain and Abel before the recorded story of Abel’s murder then told.

    Adam and Eve were fully unique in many ways, Special attention to Genesis 5: 2 “Male and female He created them; and blessed them, and called *their* name Adam, in the day they were created.” Adam and Eve separate yet one.

    Cain and Abel were brothers and were only unique because they were the first and second recorded human births in all of History. Ideas and thoughts began to divide as these two were no longer one. Their “howling hound of reality being the death of one and the marking of a murderer for the other.

    Many thousands of years later Jesus would assemble 12 men to establish His organization of disciples. 12 people with 12 separate ideas, assumptions and imaginations.

    Their “howling hound of reality” being the crucifixion death, and for 11 of them, the resurrection of their Master, Teacher, Rabbi, and Friend Jesus of Nazareth.

    After being with Jesus, after witnessing the resurrection, after seeing the ascension, after receiving the Holy Spirit, did these 11 soon to be 12 again ever agree as one with out the specter of arguing emerging?

    Disagreeing may be healthy for learning, but it is the style and delivery of differing ideas that separates us and also can bring us to the point of understanding the psychology of Cain’s breaking point, leading to the murder of his brother.

    Bill one reason I and perhaps you write long winded posts is an attempt to base, support and explain our thoughts in an effort not to be misunderstood, which more often then not fails; because we are not all equal in intellect or ability and all see and hear the same things *differently*.

    Coming around Christ won’t keep us from arguing if we continue to be our old selves, not allowing for His nature to be exhibited, but insisting on being us instead.

    Steve

  25. confeticat says:

    The word “adam” or “man” was used for mankind, rather than maleness. I don’t know what that proves but I just thought I’d point that out.

    You are right, Steve, that if we are still our old selves we will insist on having our way. Those born from above will let God have his way.

  26. confeticat says:

    An overlooked passage in the marriage controversy is Luke 20:34,35,36. “People in this world, Jesus replied, marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthy of reaching that world, which means rising from the dead, neither marry nor are they given in marriage. They cannot die anymore but live like the angels; for being children of the resurrection, they are the sons of God.” So marriage is not a permanent bond.

    The original marriage given by God (Gen. 2:23,24) was not a covenant and he can change it at any time even here on earth.

  27. narrowpathseeker says:

    Steve, I was very glad to see your post. For what it’s worth, I have never thought of your comments as long winded. What I see in your messages is a genuine heart for Jesus even when I don’t totally agree with you which is to the best of my recollection only in the political arena. Although your posts are sometimes very long, they are always very interesting to me. I think of the term “long winded” as the act of going on and on and losing the interest of the readers and/or listeners after the first paragraph.

  28. poohpity says:

    There are a couple of definitions of argue one does not involve emotion it is presenting a case by reasoning or with evidence to persuade or influence which is relevant to healthy discussion of anything. When we hold tight to our basics of our faith with hope and love can help us grow in knowledge and understanding.

    The other argue is trying to control others by causing disputes and quarreling which normally is a person’s attempt to be in charge over another. Like “it is my way or the highway”. I do not believe that even displays a heart of trust and faith in God.

    One seems to say let’s present our evidence and we can discuss our differences or similarities, a healthy discussion. The other is a child like reaction to an opposing view with someone who feels they are right no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

    If one disagrees and becomes angry then that is a belief that one fully knows the truth. As fadingman said which I loved, “Man’s role is to be discoverers of truth (reality), not definers of truth.” We are discoverers and none of us are God and there is much that God has withheld for our own good, I would imagine and pride being another. So let’s not be confused with argument, discussion type and argument, division type.

  29. poohpity says:

    Is Luke 20:34,35,36 passage to prove that marriage is not a permanent bond or is it hijacked from it’s intended purpose to prove there is a resurrection and things in heaven are different than they are on earth? To me while on earth marriage is a covenant with God and each other to remain in that contract until death due we part. Good example of what Mart was referring to when he said, “Any word or sentence read by itself can be hijacked from it’s role in supporting the unfolding drama that climaxes in Jesus’ death on a Roman Cross and his bodily return three days later from a borrowed, government sealed, and heavily guarded tomb.”

  30. confeticat says:

    “…on earth as it is in heaven” (Lord’s Prayer)

  31. poohpity says:

    That is referring to the Lord’s will, again another hijacked verse taken out of context to prove a point. In context it was Jesus teaching us how to pray. Matt 6:9,10,11,12,13. The whole sentence reads “Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” verse 10. Hijacked again.

  32. confeticat says:

    I am talking about the Lord’s will.

  33. poohpity says:

    Are you really? Do you understand what that truly means?

  34. Bill says:

    Oh-oh, pooh and confeticat…

    I smell another confrontation brewing. :)

    @Steve, I appreciate the benefit of the doubt regarding my posts. In all likelihood, I just have diarrhea of the keyboard. You communicate very well, as do many of Mart’s friends here.

  35. narrowpathseeker says:

    Bill, your posts are very informative and interesting as are Steve’s and Mart’s…..and many of his friends..as you stated. If you have diarrhea of the keyboard, then I will have to look at that term from now on as a very positive one…. :)

  36. SFDBWV says:

    I watched a very disturbing movie this past week on TV. Actually I got sucked into watching it and once it began I had to follow it to its conclusion.

    It was “The Knowing” with Nicholas Cage. What was both alluring and disturbing was that it had a Biblical undertone of prophesy along with reference to Ezekiel and the wheel he had seen.

    It was one of those movies, for me, which left me wishing I had not watched it

    It had angels disguised as men, Ezekiel’s wheel and even a glimpse of the New Earth with the tree of life in its midst.

    However the most disturbing part of this movie, for me, was the feeling of hopelessness it left me with for everyone else on planet earth.

    And I quickly could see that without Jesus and His promises mankind has neither hope nor a destiny other than the fiery end of all things.

    Narrowpathseeker, you possess a good and honest heart, it always shows in your posts.

    Bill don’t short yourself, you have an excellent grip on things and do Christ and yourself credit in all you say here.

    While most of the world is watching Mars, the president of Iran says that Israel is a cancer and it and its American allies will soon be removed from the Middle East.

    I guess CNN forgot to mention that.

    Steve

  37. poohpity says:

    “we can use our imagination make anything mean anything—until the howling hound of reality catches up with us.” Hopefully reality is catching up with us! ;-) Sometimes there is meaningful talk and sometimes there is talk to be meaningful.

  38. remarutho says:

    Hello Steve —

    On your post of 4:09 pm — I have not seen the movie you mentioned, but I am dismayed in general by the sorry use or misuse of Scripture to put forth almost any sort of cheesy sci fi/horror/action production. Too many times I have felt that good, clear Bible study is needed — only to find that a murky soup of half-truths and cooked up theories is what is offered.

    I have gone to movies or watched tv programs where I felt I had wasted time and money — and, as you said, come away with an uneasy sense that a good dose of reality is long overdue.

    Prayers going up for our witness to be clear and faithful to the Lord!

    Sunday Evening Blessings,
    Maru

  39. confeticat says:

    All aboard the Hogwarts Express!

  40. SFDBWV says:

    “Even if the Rover finds a book written in one of earth’s languages and claiming that giant Preying Mantises visited and created life on Mars billions of years ago, the book and its words probably would be accepted by some as truth, rejected by others as lies, and explained by still others as well crafted misinformation.
    By itself, no claim or event means anything, apart from an understanding of the story behind it.”

    This comment from Mart made me smile; we do live in a world filled with conspiracy theorists.
    There is a funny commercial on TV where a man and woman are talking on the street, and the woman says she had heard something on the internet and says, you know everything on the internet is true.

    She ultimately leaves with a man who has obviously misrepresented himself to her from a meeting on the internet.

    I think it is Missouri that is labeled the “show me state”, but ever since the assassination explanation of JFK people no longer believes what their governments have to tell them.

    As we look deeper into our immediate past we find that government has been lying to us using the guise of national security for a long time, through several administrations.

    And now that we have access to world wide immediate information, lying, manipulation and influence peddling has gone viral globally.

    No one knows what or who to believe.

    It is a time when the solid rock of our faith is the only truth we can stand on, and as that comes under unrelenting attacks from the world our faith is sometimes shaken to its foundation.

    Causing some of us to “circle the wagons” and see every question as an attack, even if only a question.

    Steve

  41. SFDBWV says:

    These past 13 + years have taken my family and I through a great many experiences, and I don’t know if it is God showing Himself through His creation as much as my looking at everything differently, but I have some strange things going on around us.

    This spring giant fern grew up above the yard and I had mistaken them for small saplings, but they are a very fragrant fern.

    Just outside the kitchen window there is a large heart shaped rock on which I feed birds. I get some very strange plants there from a result of the bird seed I put out. This year though a mustard seed plant grew up along side the rock, I thought it a weed at first and intended to remove it until it produced little small yellow flowers that butterflies and bees enjoyed feeding from.

    The plant grew to about 4 feet in height and one night after a thunderstorm the rain had beat it down to the ground. Listening to that insistent voice in me, I placed a stake alongside it and tied it to it in order to support it. It grew to about 5 feet in height and has come to that point of its life where it is finished growing and is beginning to dry out and wither.

    I thought a few mornings ago I should pull it up and clean up the area, but then seen little finches feeding in among its branches. I went out and looked hard and could not even see the tiny mustard seeds this plant had produced, yet the little birds can and so feed from it.

    The whole matter reminded me of Jesus telling us that if we just had the faith of the size of a mustard seed what we could accomplish.

    So the plant will remain even if it seems to be dead, I will have faith in its purpose and as a gift from its Creator for me to be encouraged from.

    Steve

  42. confeticat says:

    And “God has always done it this way”, meaning in that person’s experience, so in their mind he can’t change his modus operandi. They are afraid for their little world to be touched by the hand of God. It is small thinking from small minds. Isa, 55:8,9

    Add to that the fact that God said he would do a new thing – he said it in Isaiah, he said it in Revelation.

    The mustard seed, according to Matt. 13:32, though so small it can barely be seen with the naked eye, becomes the largest of all the garden plants.

  43. confeticat says:

    It doesn’t fit within the walls of their church.

  44. florida7sun says:

    @Steve… “I will have faith in its purpose and as a gift from its Creator for me to be encouraged from.” Beautiful post. Thank you for sharing.

  45. confeticat says:

    When you come across something new, question it, but don’t beat it down and stomp it into the ground just because you’ve never heard it before. Doing that is showing your naivete and your ignorance.

  46. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Confeticat,

    I come from one of the oldest and most traditional countries in the world, but we have always embraced change, new cultures and new language to a point that we are now an unrecognizable people from the nations that went into the second world war.
    We are on the brink of a miracle because our thinking, while based on sound Truth welcomes everything God in His Wisdom is about to unleash.

    Bob

  47. confeticat says:

    Good Morning Bob — What miracle are you on the brink of? I haven’t heard.

  48. confeticat says:

    Bob was apparently pulling my leg there. I wasn’t talking about blindly embracing “any” and “every”. Jesus said deceivers would , if possible, deceive the very elect (Matt. 24:24). Meaning it is not possible. If a person is afraid of being deceived anyway, then they had better recheck where they stand with Jesus.

  49. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Back in the early days, when England was uniting from the small Saxon kingdoms the “Powers that be” really thought England was Gods chosen people and started to build the nation around that premise, hence Jerusalem being the English anthem etc.
    Because we were one of the first nations to “Globalise” we took Christianity and Jesus to the four corners of the world.
    God promised that in the last days He would pour out His Spirit on all flesh.
    He has also promised us that, if we repent and turn back to Him, He will again use our nation as a vehicle to spread the news of His coming to the world.
    There is a great revival starting in our land and God, through prophecy, has told us it will not just be here but all across the world simultaneously.
    Judging by what happened in our little Barn Fellowship yesterday and our prayer meeting last night, I can honestly say we are about to witness something like the world has never seen before in all the revivals and out pourings put together.
    That’s the Miracle we are living in.
    The brink has come we are now surfing the wave of His Love and His Power and His Spirit.

    Bob

  50. confeticat says:

    Whoa! God promised he would use England as a vehicle to spread the news of his coming to the world?

    Is that in the Bible, or to whom did he promise it?

  51. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    2chronicles 7: 14

    Sorry if I sounded over excited, that’t because I am!! :-)

    God said it!
    I believe it!
    Watch it happen!

  52. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    2 chronicles 7: 14

    if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

  53. remarutho says:

    John 13:34, 35 – Love in the fellowship of believers is the spark that ignites revival among unbelievers! I pray for the revival in England and Europe, Bob. Blessings, Maru

  54. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Amen Maru!

    Someone prayed a prophetic prayer yesterday in our gathering, a very wise old preacher who comes to our fellowship to chill when he has no other engagements.
    He prayed about us being the salt of the earth and what a compliment it was of Jesus to His disciples to call them, & us by default, that.
    He then prayed on and said “it’s no good keeping the salt and the fish in different buckets. The salt will go stale and the fish will rot. The salt and fish have to be mingled together in the same bucket”.
    What truth there is in this statement.
    As “church” we must not just mingle with “church” We must be out there in the midst of our communities showing that love that Maru just mentioned above.
    “We are IN the world but not of the world.” bringing Kingdom Life to all we touch.

    Bob

  55. confeticat says:

    Oh, II Chron. 7:14. All roads lead back to II Chron. 7:14. It was a specific promise to a specific people, yet the overall principle of repentance is true. But England had better hurry because America has already run it into the ground.

    The ‘great revival’ comes, no doubt, from Joel 2, which in context is a prophecy for the Great Tribulation. I used to be charismatic too and we had these moments where it felt like we were on the brink of something big. Once i even felt a breeze blowing along the floor across my feet! New wine must be put into fresh wineskins (Luke 5:37,38).

    There were some great revivals around the turn of the twentieth century but they didn’t last. There won’t be any revivals competing with the Kingdom.

  56. confeticat says:

    Bob – unless it’s a fresh-water fish – lol.

  57. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Before refrigeration and freezers, salt was the main way of preserving meat and fish of any kind.
    The Royal Navy traveled the globe eating salted beef etc.
    Salt also cleanses and purifies.

    That’s why, whenever it is, the timing is not important, when we are raptured the world will be in turmoil without the restraining influence of God’s people.

  58. confeticat says:

    Salt also makes people thirsty!

    You would be referring to II Thess. 2:7? Paul calls the restrainer a “he”. Michael is the holding back angel (Dan. 10:21; Rev. 7:1).

  59. remarutho says:

    Hi Bob —

    To your 8:40 post – Unless and until the church gets out into the community, the witness (salt) cannot touch the world (fish). Your prayer leader is most wise, in my view.

    Matthew 28:18, 19, 20 is coming to pass in our days. The witness of faith in Jesus still goes forth, no matter the hour!

    Blessings,
    Maru

  60. confeticat says:

    The rub there is verse 20. The church has not “brought Kingdom life to all they touch.” Nor was it expected to. But his disciples were told to teach all that Jesus taught, the most important of which was the Kingdom.

  61. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Hi Maru,

    We have no prayer leader, just four elders.
    We all participate as the Spirit leads.
    One has a vision, another a tongue, another an interpretation etc.

    But as you said, the greatest of these is LOVE and especially between the brethren but also to our friends and neighbours who need so much and are ripe for harvest.

  62. poohpity says:

    Bob, it sounds as if revival was brought to your heart this weekend. We all need a fresh out pouring of the Spirit to ignite us as we each travel our paths to proclaim the Gospel. When the emotions die down may we hold on to the knowing that God is very much alive and active in every detail of what is happening around the world and in our own backyards. Lord fan all of our little sparks into mighty flames to continue the work you have given us. Amen?

  63. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    One vision we have is little fires all over Britain that join together into one big fire.
    Your analogy is very apt.

  64. Bill says:

    @Bob, you and maru are singing my song! :)

    Bob wrote: “But as you said, the greatest of these is LOVE and especially between the brethren but also to our friends and neighbours who need so much and are ripe for harvest.”

    Maru wrote: “Unless and until the church gets out into the community, the witness (salt) cannot touch the world (fish).”

    This is why I appreciate so much the “new” take on Christianity espoused by Shane Claiborne, Brian McLaren, Rob Bell — the so-called “Emergent Church” leaders — who are more focused on love and being in the community with helping hands than they are with apologetics and endless debates about doctrine.

    In my opinion, sacrificial, self-less love is the ultimate apologetic.

    I believe the only “witness” our communities want to see is us, with our mouths closed and our arms open wide…standing shoulder to shoulder with others (not just Christians!) to rebuild, restore, and revitalize the lives of those around us. We’ve talked enough. The world wants to see us in action. I think it’s time to put up or shut up, as the saying goes.

    In other words, the Emergent Church is praxis-oriented — the actual living out of one’s belief system.

    A decent article on this subject can be found by Googling “Five Streams of the Emerging Church” by Scot McKnight. One paragraph from McKnight’s article says this:

    “Orthopraxy: A notable emphasis of the emerging movement is orthopraxy, that is, right living. The contention is that how a person lives is more important than what he or she believes. Many will immediately claim that we need both or that orthopraxy flows from orthodoxy. Most in the emerging movement agree we need both, but they contest the second claim: Experience does not prove that those who believe the right things live the right way. No matter how much sense the traditional connection makes, it does not necessarily work itself out in practice. Public scandals in the church—along with those not made public—prove this point time and again.”

    I agree. That’s why I’m always harping on ACTION and LOVE in my comments. I see too little of both in the world today.

    But that’s just me. Your mileage may vary.

    Thanks for reading my comments…and thank you all for continuing to post your provocative comments. I appreciate your viewpoints.

  65. confeticat says:

    It is said that emerging Christians confess their faith like mainliners—meaning they say things publicly they don’t really believe. They drink like Southern Baptists—meaning, to adapt some words from Mark Twain, they are teetotalers when it is judicious. They talk like Catholics—meaning they cuss and use naughty words. They evangelize and theologize like the Reformed—meaning they rarely evangelize, yet theologize all the time. They worship like charismatics—meaning with their whole bodies, some parts tattooed. They vote like Episcopalians—meaning they eat, drink, and sleep on their left side. And, they deny the truth—meaning they’ve got a latte-soaked copy of Derrida in their smoke- and beer-stained backpacks.
    — Scot McKnight

  66. Bill says:

    @confeticat, indeed. That was McKnight’s first paragraph. But his second makes clear why he started that way:

    “Along with unfair stereotypes of other traditions, such are the urban legends surrounding the emerging church—one of the most controversial and misunderstood movements today. As a theologian, I have studied the movement and interacted with its key leaders for years—even more, I happily consider myself part of this movement or “conversation.” As an evangelical, I’ve had my concerns, but overall I think what emerging Christians bring to the table is vital for the overall health of the church.”

    So he started with the “unfair stereotypes” and “urban legends.” His article explains the truth.

    Keep in mind, I’m not saying I’m a dyed-in-the-wool “Emergent Church” advocate. I just recently discovered this movement that’s been underway for quite a while. A lot of it makes sense to me. So I’m exploring it, examining its beliefs and fruits against the Bible and my own understanding of the world.

    I may conclude it’s a all a crock. But, then again, I may think “This is the place for me. Where do I sign up?”

    All I know is there’s something very cool going on in Christianity today. It’s an emphasis on action and getting involved in the community that I appreciate very much.

    con, I’d be interested in your take on the Emergent Church and its famous authors (Bell, McLaren, and Claiborne being perhaps its most famous three).

    Have a great day!

  67. poohpity says:

    As I read Habakkuk this morning it reminded me that history repeats itself but he tells us that the righteous will trust in the Lord. I loved Habakkuk 2:14 that no matter what all the earth will be filled with an awareness of the Glory of the Lord. Yes that vision of the little fires I hope it is not only Britain but all over the world and will spur us on to be more than words.

    Bill, I just borrowed this weekend from my son’s library “Jesus Wants To Save Christians” by Rob Bell & Don Golden, so far the writing style I have to say is very unique to say the least but I have found so far the very same things written were already told many, many years ago just in a different way in the Bible.

  68. confeticat says:

    What IS your song, Bill? Oh yes, All You Need is Love.

    I’ve never heard of Claiborne and I didn’t know Bell was in that movement. McLaren I have written about before but would have to look him up again to refresh my memory.

    I don’t know what the emergent church does in the community but they certainly haven’t skipped debates about doctrine.

    The world is ready for the submergent church.

  69. poohpity says:

    There are many Christians out there in the field living out what they believe, please do not be overwhelmed because they do not broadcast what they are doing, normally they are waiting for the reward that awaits them in heaven and not the applause of man.

  70. Bill says:

    Hi pooh!

    Rob Bell is an interesting guy. He created a world-wide firestorm with his book Love Wins. I’ve been reading the criticism books about Love Wins for the past few weeks. I’m not convinced Bell’s critics are correct. But I’m still formulating my thoughts.

    Ten years ago I would have looked at Bell as a heretic. Indeed, when I first saw Velvet Elvis I thought, “This guy is out there. This is Theology Lite.”

    But the more I observed the real world, the more I came to think, “Hmmm. Maybe this Bell guy is onto something. What if he’s right?”

    I haven’t read “Jesus Wants to Save Christians.” Not yet, anyway. I recently bought all of Bell’s books with an eye toward reading them with the eyes of my new paradigm.

    Your observation about Bell is probably more accurate than you think. I don’t think he’s making up anything new. I think he’s discovering something in the Bible that’s very old, but perhaps overlooked or forgotten.

    I’m still thinking. Still wondering. Still observing. I’m not 100% sold on any of those authors — and can’t vouch for everything they’ve written or said. But there’s something there that’s intriguing. So I’m pursuing it to see where this path leads me.

    Let me/us know what you think of the Bell book.

    Maybe Mart could create a thread — or start an interactive forum — that would better serve as a way to interact about certain specific topics. That way I wouldn’t feel like I’m highjacking Mart’s thread to talk about something else. :)

  71. confeticat says:

    Text to go with the submergent church – Luke 17:6.

  72. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    confeticat,
    I would like to meet your mother.
    She has a lot to answer for!

  73. confeticat says:

    Velvet Elvis?

  74. Bill says:

    You’re right, Pooh. I know there are people out there living the life. Well, I think I know. If they don’t broadcast it, it’s like the tree falling in woods with no one around to hear it.

    So, I guess it would be more accurate to say that I hope people are living it.

    con, you’re right about the debates about doctrine part. I think every time someone comes along with a new/old idea and writes a book or starts to do something differently from the norm, it becomes a firestorm. Bell’s book Love Wins is a prime example. Shane Claiborne’s books The Irresistible Revolution and Jesus For President are other examples.

    Doctrinal debates seem to be the norm these days. Can’t avoid them.

    But, remember: I’m not an advocate for Bell, McLaren, or Claiborne. I’m just a guy doing a lot of reading and a lot of thinking and a lot of observing. Take what I write with a grain of salt.

  75. confeticat says:

    Is that with or without the fish?

  76. Bill says:

    By the way, Bob, you sound like an interesting guy. Would love to meet you someday.

    @con, “Velvet Elvis” refers to the awful pieces of art one can buy beside the road, usually sold out of a van. I don’t remember what Bell’s metaphor was. I haven’t read the book for many years. I want to re-read it to see what I think of it now.

  77. confeticat says:

    Thanks, Bill, for explaining these doctrinal terms to me.

  78. poohpity says:

    Bill, Mart already wrote a thread on “Love Wins” by Rob Bell and how people commented on the book with out reading it to find out for sure what Bell was talking about. It prompted a lot of conclusion jumping and talking about things the media has said without even having read the book. I reminds me of all the people that talk about the Bible whom have never read it or even care that it is the living Word that speaks daily to us and knowing that it continually is revealing more over time. Really shows what jumping to conclusions and assuming can do to those who lack the desire to be better informed before they voice on opinion.

  79. remarutho says:

    Good Morning All —

    Mart, you wrote: “If we don’t come together around him, healthy conversation about anything within the covers of the Bible, or about anything in the world around us can turn into an argument.” The “him” is the Lord Jesus Christ.

    It seems to me, this conversation, The “Old, Old Story,” is well within topic today. All the saints are praying for faith to be ignited. Just my opinion.

    Blessings,
    Maru

  80. poohpity says:

    It is so an implication of this topic.

  81. Bill says:

    I think I know how best to describe my interest in the aforementioned authors.

    I believe there’s a lot more to the Gospel and the Bible and traditional doctrinal answers than I once thought I knew. I used to think I had all the answers. I spouted Scripture like Charles Spurgeon and thought I had it down pat. Especially regarding the Calvinistic doctrine of predestination and election (usually known by its acronym TULIP).

    But, over the years — as I’ve aged (more like a fine wine than a smelly cheese I hope) — I’ve come to realize that I don’t have all the answers. In fact, there’s probably a lot about the Bible that I’ve missed, overlooked, or taken for granted. So I’ve tried to be more open minded, accepting, and loving. Less judgmental. Less opinionated. Kinder, maybe.

    Along with that comes reading authors that I would have dismissed outright a decade ago.

    What I’m discovering is a whole new way of seeing the Bible and our place in the world. At least for me. If there’s one thing I’ve discovered for a certainty is that my path is not your path. And vice versa. We’re not called to be automatons. We’re not the same people. We don’t have to look the same, think the same, or talk the same. So, for example, if I say, “Love wins!” and I take off on a path of serving the community, that doesn’t mean I think all of you should do the same. It just means that may be my particular calling.

  82. remarutho says:

    Hello Pooh —

    You are spot-on with your comment about the quiet witness of the church — see Matthew 6:1, 2, 3, 4, 19, 20, 21. Plus, Philip Yancey’s devo today in ODB.

    :o) Maru

  83. remarutho says:

    Pooh,
    I am referencing your comment of 10:55 a.m. Maru

  84. confeticat says:

    It’s interesting to know what others have to say, but books can be a distraction from hearing from Jesus. It is rare when the few nuggets I get from a book are worth the time it takes to read the book.

  85. poohpity says:

    I have in the past read many authors and their takes on scripture and many, many different bible studies but none meant as much to me as a read through the Bible chronologically. Then I found the more I read it the more I understand. To find an author who is actually Spirit filled and their Words backing up the Bible makes it come alive. I have to say the best book I have ever read outside of the Bible besides writings from RBC ministries was “The Root of The Righteous” by A.W. Tozer. That book just took my breath away and I felt and knew the very heart of the Lord came through the words on it’s pages.

    It is very easy to tell when someone writes from the heart, not with rhetoric that usually takes one in circles but is very easy to read and understand. The more I read the Bible the more I know I do not really have a clue of all that God is and wants us to know about Him. I am humbled at the immensity of God’s love and grace found in His truths.

  86. poohpity says:

    As I live one truth then God reveals another it is very experiential.

  87. confeticat says:

    And if I think I understand it all God will pull the rug out from under me and I’ll be back to square one. Tozer’s books have meant a lot to me too, also along that line Andrew Murray.

  88. confeticat says:

    I read them at the right time in my life. Like “My Utmost for His Highest”. I devoured it and it was an immense help as it has been to thousands. But i went back after i knew the Lord and read a few pages and it struck me as a bit legalistic.

  89. poohpity says:

    That to me says that what you thought you understood may not have been what God had intended you to understand to begin with. I find that the reason for a rug being pulled out from under me is when I say I trust and then get upset when things do not work out the way I had planned because I was not actually depending on Him but on myself. Sort of like confronting me on what I say and what is really in my heart.

  90. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    confeticat, & pooh,

    Well I have read some really good books in my time, one a few months ago spoke to me everyday.
    As events were unfolding in my life every page I turned related to that day.
    It was just God using the experiences of a man born over a century ago to speak into my life.
    That why what you said pooh about reading through the Bible is so right, especially for you.
    Times are coming that will be hard and we will be unable to trust even our closest friends and family.
    That’s why we must be transformed by the renewing of our minds. Only trust one source, the Bible and learn to listen to that inner voice that come from The Holy Spirit and to distinguish between His voice, our voice and the voice of the devil.
    Jesus said His sheep know His voice.
    One day, you never know, we may be like Paul or others or like some are already today, imprisoned without the Bible and only that Shepherds Voice from God to lead us through.

    Bob

  91. confeticat says:

    Well, that too, but I was referring more to things none of us know or are sure of. Not personal but general knowledge.

  92. confeticat says:

    That’s really good, Bob, and so true. The best books out there are second hand – what God has given to someone else. He has a personal word for each of us, and his sheep know his voice. Not through transformed minds but transformed hearts, but I won’t get technical since the rest of what you said is so good. (Come to think of it, maybe it was Paul’s mind that caused him to write that stuff!)

  93. poohpity says:

    Bob, how strange. The other day I thought what if it happened that I was separated from my bible in some way. As we read it, it then becomes a part of us and no one can take that away. People in countries that the Bible is forbidden scratch and search for just one page of God’s glorious Word not just a page but even half of one and we in our freedom put it on the self and use it for collecting dust. Sometime things we take for granted are taken away, that should give us cause to think.

  94. poohpity says:

    Or Paul’s mind, heart and soul that was bent on telling others what Jesus can do and does in a person’s life.

  95. poohpity says:

    Romans 12:2

  96. davids says:

    “it’s no good keeping the salt and the fish in different buckets. The salt will go stale and the fish will rot. The salt and fish have to be mingled together in the same bucket”

    Beautiful.

  97. confeticat says:

    When the salt has lost its flavor, you end up with a bucket list.

  98. kingdomkid7 says:

    Mark Galli’s book, God Wins, is a thoughtful response to Rob Bell’s Love Wins. Check it out.

  99. remarutho says:

    Good Evening Mart & Friends –

    Mart, you wrote:
    “By the chemistry of creative assumptions we can use our imagination make anything mean anything—until the howling hound of reality catches up with us.”

    The interesting thing about the scientific evidence that will be gathered and coordinated by the Mars Rover is that it cannot yield primary evidence about why the Red Planet came into being, any more than geological and chemical analyses of Earth can. The discovery of evidence of conscious life – or sentient life – would be very exciting. But, those whose value-system is based upon faith in a Creator God will continue to accept the account of the Bible as revealed truth. Those who hold to a human-centered value system will reject the Bible account. We will not “escape” any aspect of being human on any planet.

    The scientific community can study the “how” of creation until the Day of the Lord – and never begin to approach the “why.” Recall Ray Bradbury’s “Martian Chronicles,” in which he imagined a destructive Earth-culture exploiting an ancient and mysterious Mars-culture. One of the drivers of the 21st century Mars Rover Mission is to develop mineral resources where possible, I believe. Bradbury imagined humans escaping a crumbling society on Earth for a new world and new hope on Mars. Is the redeeming love of Jesus any different on another planet?

    Perhaps the explorer needs to explore him/herself… Blessings, Maru

  100. royalpalm says:

    Hello, Mart and friends,

    Mart you stated, “Some will conclude that now, for sure we know life needs no God. Others will celebrate a Creator whose fingerprints have been found on another planet. Still others will feel confirmed in their suspicion that unknown space travelers have been at work on Mars as they have on Earth.”

    One of Jesus’ memorable words during His last hours with His disciples was about the Holy Spirit and His work: As the Spirit of truth,
    1)the Holy Spirit will guide the disciples (believers) into all truth and teach them the truth and things to come. John 16:13,14

    2)The Holy Spirit will also “convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.” John 16:8-11

    Beginning with Pentecost the Holy Spirit has been convicting (convincing) the whole world of sin and righteousness and judgment –that is, He makes each person aware of his sinfulness and his need of God’s mercy and grace and convinces him of God’s truth about Jesus. He also gives each person an inner and unshakeable conviction that he will appear before the judgment seat of God.

    There is therefor no excuse. A person’s response to the Holy Spirit determines his belief and spiritual life. I praise God for the Holy Spirit’s work in my heart and for listening to His convictions which led me to Jesus and His atoning sacrifice. Others , however, suppress the Holy Spirit’s work vigorously and prefer to be comfortable by putting their trust in the unknown rather than be uncomfortable with God. They will never find peace and will forever be searching – in Mars/ science, in books, music, drugs, etc. How tragic. God has been talking to each person all the time. Psalm 19:1, 2,3,4 Isa. 55:3, 6, 7

  101. Mart De Haan says:

    Have really been enjoying your thoughts! Woke up thinking I needed to post something fresh. Then got caught up in the conversation above. Wow. You all are one interesting group of friends… :-)… Thank you for what all and each of you are adding.

  102. confeticat says:

    Royal Palm — You reminded us of John 16:8-11 in which the Holy Spirit will convince the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. But when you described it yourself “beginning with Pentecost…, you left out righteousness. And that is no surprise to me, because there is little anyone can say.

    Whereas the Church is identified in the eyes of the world with sin and judgment, righteousness has fallen by the wayside. It has become the impossible dream. When I say you don’t have to sin, Christians rear up and call that crazy talk and quote I John 1:9. But I John 1:9 is an emergency clinic especially for the new believer – it is not the ideal. Jesus offers us his righteousness – Matt. 5:48.

    Without righteousness no man can see God. The Church has held back righteousness. Isa. 63:8-10

  103. SFDBWV says:

    One of the reasons I like the psalms and the little daily devotionals are because they are little power packed snacks instead of a large meal.

    When I set down and try to read any book, a couple things have to happen; first of all I need quiet.

    Then I need uninterrupted time in order to concentrate and connect to the mind of the author.

    The book also has to grab my attention right away and draw me into its theme.

    I truly have not had any private time now for over 13 years, so sad to say my reading has to be in short bursts that will in itself be interrupted multiple times.

    I am not complaining, just explaining as aptly titled in this topic, there is a story behind everything.

    There is no greater reality than the one any of us are facing right now.

    To explore the radical ideas of any author, one has to have an open mind able to allow new thinking directed at old excepted ideas.

    No one brought more radical ideas to the world of *religion* than did Jesus.

    His thoughts and words explained old thoughts and ideas sometimes in stark contrast to what had been accepted for generations.

    To the Jew God was an unyielding iron fisted task master, unapproachable and far removed from their ability to fellowship with. Yet Jesus called Him *daddy* and brought the new and radical idea of unconditional love into the equation of God and man.

    Fulfilling and explaining Scripture not altering or changing it.

    There in lay the basis for me to agree with *new* ideas concerning Scripture based life. Does it agree with Scripture or attempt to change it or twist it?

    What reason in your heart is the door open for new ideas to be considered in contrast to old ones, speaking of course in terms of faith and acquired and accepted knowledge?

    What is lacking that gives you nagging doubt or leads you to look for alternative answers?

    Is your own faith not deeply rooted yet that the ideas of another can sway your opinion? Or is it that you have no opinion of your own only the opinions of others who *sound* like they are firmly rooted in some deeper knowledge you have yet to achieve?

    Yes it is with great caution that we should approach the acceptance of others ideas; the guide for it is found openly in Scripture and it is there that the answers can be found to what ever is lacking in any of our lives.

    A foggy cool 47 degrees in the mountains this morning, feels refreshing.

    Steve

  104. confeticat says:

    First of all we have to identify Scripture. What i am saying is not new, it has been in Scripture all along. There is somthing within the covers of the Bible that prevents it from being comprehended and believed. The “free gift” doesn’t translate into a way of life.

  105. Regina says:

    Good Morning All,
    Off topic here…
    I hope all is well in your lives! I have sorely missed chatting with you! About a month or more ago, my computer motherboard burnt out, and it took about 3 to 7 days to find someone who could diagnose the problem for free (I knew I was going to have to pay to either get the issue fixed or buy a new computer). Well, the person who diagnosed it services the computers and any other data issue for the employees at my new job (Yes, I have a new job now! I work at a Daycare/Learning Center preparing 4 yr olds for Kindergarten, and I will miss working as a Sub-Teacher) and I was referred to him by a fellow co-worker. He was so generous and so kind to me. He helped me with everything that I needed that was computer-related! He even went with me to a computer store to help me choose a new computer, and the most profound part of this testimony is that he didn’t charge me a penny for the help that he provided! Please pray with me that the LORD will repay him 100 fold return for the kindness and generosity that he showed me! That was “unexpected blessing” number 1,000,000,000 for me! Lol! It’s such a blessing to be able to chat with you again, and I’ll read this post when I have more time (if it’s still current–seems really interesting with more than 100 comments).

    Beautiful rain and gray skies in Texas today.

    Love to all…

  106. confeticat says:

    I should have said the free gift doesn’t translate into a righteous way of life.

  107. kingdomkid7 says:

    I think your comments are right on point, Steve. I will add this excerpt from
    the Foreword to Mark Galli’s book, God Wins:

    “C.S. Lewis warned against chronological snobbery — the assumption that recent viewpoints are better than ancient ones. . . The gospel … Is timely precisely because it is timeless.”
    Blessed day, everyone!

  108. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends –

    Recent posts touch upon crucial characteristics of human mind – conscience and personality integration. The human tendency to self-delusion is well-documented. It seems to me the most dangerous human delusion is that one is truly sovereign in one’s self. Here comes the “howling hound of reality.” You touch upon it, Royal and Steve. I believe Isaiah’s 55th chapter is a “psalm” to God’s true sovereignty:
    “Seek the Lord while He may be found,
    Call upon Him while He is near.
    Let the wicked forsake his way,
    And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
    And let him return to the Lord,
    And He will have compassion on him;
    And to our God,
    For He will abundantly pardon.”
    (Isaiah 55:6, 7)
    It seems to me the whole chapter explains the sovereignty of God over humanity most beautifully. To claim that a human being can generate righteousness – or even lay hold of righteousness – is a dangerous delusion.

    When all barriers to God come down, the human heart can worship its Creator. Prostrate or kneeling, I am in my correct position before God. And apart from God’s presence, I am a forlorn portion of protoplasm. At no time does the body of Christ stand alone. That “burning coal” Wesley describes being removed from the heart of the fire, goes cold apart and separated. True conscience brings me to submission and confession that I am incapable of righteousness.

    Blessings,
    Maru

  109. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Missed you Regina,
    Welcome back!

    There are many many more blessings to come!

    Bob xxx

  110. confeticat says:

    Maru, come down to earth where the rest of us live as Jesus did, you misunderstand what God is saying. Man doesn’t generate the righteousness. But he can lay hold of Jesus’ righteousness through being in him, John 14:13,14. By limiting us you are limiting the Father.

    There is no body of Christ – what you say about it doesn’t even make sense. That you are incapable of righteousness is a LIE of Satan. When his mouth is open, he’s lying.

  111. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I agree with you Maru!

    Righteousness, like Faith, is a gift of God.

    Life itself is a gift of God.

    All we can do is wonder and worship at what He has done for us.
    All we can do is fall at the foot of the Cross where the Blood of Jesus still lies and cries out as payment for our sins.
    Then, and only then, can we rise up with Him into new life and allow Him, through the Holy Spirit, to clothe us in His Righteousness.
    Holding fast to all that is Worthy and True, Jesus Christ, Messiah, Son of the Living God!
    Together Heirs with Him unto Righteousness forever and ever!

  112. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    We are the Body of Christ.

    Jesus is a physical being who, at this time in our history, is seated at the right hand of the Father.
    We are physical representatives of Christ on Earth, filled with the Holy Spirit, transformed into His likeness.
    We are Jesus on Earth, The Body of Christ.
    We can’t exist on our own, we need to be part of each other, one with God.
    We are living in His Kingdom and are His People right now!

  113. remarutho says:

    Hebrews 2:8

  114. remarutho says:

    Hello Bob —

    It surely is “Christ in you (plural) the hope of glory.” Colossians 1:27 We are Christ-bearers, not solo saviors! Jesus left his royal status behind when he became one of us. (John 8:54) The New Life he lives, he lives in the flesh, as you say, at the right hand of God the Father, enthroned once more.

    Blessings,
    Maru

  115. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Must be something going on in me?

    I am just being blown away by the posts here on this topic!
    I believe The Holy Spirit is speaking to us here.

    He who is able to hear, let him listen to and give heed to what the Spirit says to the assemblies.
    Rev 2:7 (Amplified Bible)

    Bob

  116. confeticat says:

    See how easy it is to get carried away, and it’s all from “scripture” – Paul’s. Everything we have is from the hand of God. Righteousness is not a piece of clothing you put on like Harry Potter and his cloak of invisibility. Jesus actually wants to make you righteous! Ask yourself why you are resisting that.

    You picture a group with their mouths open in awe at the foot of the cross. Jesus didn’t die to leave us at the foot of the cross. If this is as far as you can go, then you are pitiful indeed and Jesus wasted his life dying for you.

  117. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    The Cross is where Jesus gave His Life for all of us.
    The foot of the Cross is where His Life Blood was poured out for us.
    We don’t stay there anymore than Jesus did.
    It is a place we pass through, like Him, we lay down our lives and, like Him, we rise again to new LIFE!

    I may be wrong, but in my own experience, I would say this is a daily process.
    Each day a little bit more of me is left at the cross and each day a little bit more of my new life in Him is picked up.
    It would be nice if it could all be done at once, but God said to claim the promised land “little by little”, one step at a time.
    His mercy is New every morning, and so am I in Him!

    Bob

  118. confeticat says:

    Bob, Part 2 – Lies, lies, lies

    God (and therefore Jesus) is spirit (John 4:23,24)

    “Transformed into his likeness” but not righteous. An accident going someplace to happen.

    There is no Christ (already proven here) so therefore he has no body. If he is the same as Jesus, why don’t you ever claim to be the body of Jesus? Well, obviously the body of Jesus went to heaven. Another incongruity, therefore it’s always the Body of Christ.

    Can’t exist on your own, huh? (John 14:18)

    The Kingdom (Matt. 7:14)

  119. confeticat says:

    Bob 3 or 4 — Oh yes, don’t kid yourself, you do stay at the cross. The blood, the gore, ‘Christ’ wallows in it. And it’s a ~~mystery~~ which means you never quite understand it all but you speak of it in hushed tones.

    Jesus said “Take up YOUR cross and follow me (Luke 14:27).

    What you’ve got going sounds to me like dry cleaning. Each day you leave a little, and you pick up a little. And of course after you’ve worn the ones you picked up you have to bring them back again. While you are claiming the “promised land” one step at a time you could have all of Jesus now.

  120. confeticat says:

    Few of us can resist a free offer. I clip coupons and look for sales. But the free offers are, in the eyes of the companies that offer them, to draw us in to something even better, the full package they offer. What they have in mind will cost us something but will, they hope, be mutually beneficial.

    Salvation is the free offer. God wants us to enter into the company of his Son.

  121. remarutho says:

    Breathe, Confeticat!

    Think and let think, brother. Romans 8:1, 2

    Blessings,
    Maru

  122. poohpity says:

    Mart you said, “Still others will feel confirmed in their suspicion that unknown space travelers have been at work on Mars as they have on Earth.” When we listen to believers that are not mature in their faith one tends to be dragged into some pretty airy fairy thinking. To say for instance that God is preaching anything new in the NT then He did in the OT is not aware of what the OT says. That same loving God who sent His only begotten son into the World to save it is the same God who sent prophets of old to let His people know they were going the wrong way and to return to Him.

    That same God repeatedly chased after His people with compassion and mercy since the beginning of time that is recorded in the Bible. God always provided a way back into His loving arms for those who just would ask. Jesus was the fulfillment of all the sacrifices that were put into place until He came for that final sacrifice that ended all the temporary ones.

    We all need mature, not that we will ever be fully matured, people who have gone before us to guide and teach us but if we have not even attempted to be feed from the hand of God how do we know what some teach is truth. There have been authors upon authors who give their take on what is taught in God’s Word but if we are not firm in our foundations then just as those who teach that the moon is made of cheese and try and give us answers to things we may never have answers to we open ourselves up to being lead astray.

    It is the same Story behind everything in the Bible the God is the same God of the OT as the NT nothing new was taught it was just finished to be taken into the future when we find ourselves in our final resting place. The same message is taught to love God first and foremost and that will be manifested in how we treat others. We will let God be God to them.

    As royal quoted John 16:8-11 many Christians feel that is their job because of a lack of trust in God. If we do not, in our minds, remain humbled at the foot of the Cross we tend to think more of ourselves than we ought and forget exactly what happened on that Cross while trying to be the Holy Spirit in the lives of others. God did a very good job in mine letting me know I was a sinner and I needed His forgiveness and I believe as I did then that God is so capable of getting His story out there and we each should feel blessed that he has allowed us to do it. The basics are easy to understand and easy to tell but God does not leave us there over time He will let us know more about Him but that is for our job to tell others about Him but when we try and put words into His mouth, as some authors do, we have slipped from the truth.

  123. confeticat says:

    Rom. 8:1 begins with the word “therefore”. Which means it goes back to something before, not Chapter 8. The last verse of Chapter 7 leaves us with “on the one hand I with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.” You have a choice between your mind and your flesh.

    Jesus summarized the law of God, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” (Luke 10:27)

    In Rom. 8:2, the Spirit has set you free from the law of sin and of death, but it has not set you free from the law of God.

  124. confeticat says:

    I should have said “he”, not “it”.

  125. remarutho says:

    Dear Confeticat —

    “With the arrival of Jesus, the Messiah, that fateful dilemma is resolved. Those who enter into Christ’s being-here-for-us no longer have to live under a continuous, low-lying black cloud. A new power is in operation. The Spirit of life in Christ, like a strong wind, has magnificently cleared the air, freeing you from a fated lifetime of brutal tyranny at the hands of sin and death.” (Romans 8:1, 2 The Message)

    Christ frees us from condemnation. Nor do we condemn one another.

    Yours in Christ,
    Maru

  126. remarutho says:

    My quote is from The Message translation, as copied. Romans 8:1, 2 MSG Maru

  127. confeticat says:

    I don’t think much of the Message, if it is a translation, and someone put their own interpretation in there. You don’t have the Spirit within when you are saved. Somebody probably turned on a fan.
    “Nor do we condemn one another”, what la-la land is that? Probably Mars, no one has been there to spoil it yet.

  128. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    confeticat,

    I can assure you that Jesus is a physical being.
    He gave up His place in Glory to become a man.
    We have witnesses that saw Him ascend from the mount of olives in physical form and were told He would return again one day in like manner.
    Yes God is Spirit and we worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, that is why Jesus sent The Holy Spirit.
    John 16:13,14

    Jesus is the first born of many brethren, us being the many brethren.
    He has gone to prepare a place for us.
    We are physical beings like Jesus.
    We are His body on earth now!

    If you understand the Godhead you would know that The Father Glorifies the Son and The Son Glorifies His Father by doing His Will.
    The Holy Spirit will only speak what He hears from The Father and will Honour and Glorify the Son.
    Jesus Himself honoured the Holy Spirit when He said no one who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will be forgiven, in other words, you can say what you like about me but don’t you dare talk against Him(the Holy Spirit).
    That is called oneness, that is called love!

    Bob

  129. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    When Jesus prayed that long and great prayer in John 15-17
    He prayed that would all be one together in Him and with Him.

    The love that exists between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit should also exist between us.
    In the same way Husbands love there wive as there own body and wives love there husbands.
    The other person is always lifted higher than self.
    The same applies in our relationship with Jesus.
    We place Him higher than self in our lives.

  130. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    He prayed that *we* would all be one together in Him and with Him.

  131. confeticat says:

    Jesus was given a special body made for him, his birth being supernatural. He lived as we live, but he never became a man. He was not a physical being, so we cannot be his body. Nor did he ever say such a thing.

    I do not put down the Holy Spirit. It is blaspheming him to blame him for the way Christians live.

  132. confeticat says:

    Jesus is higher than we are – God, in fact – whether we place him there or not.

  133. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Jesus is God, He is the Word made Flesh.
    But He is also a man.
    There was nothing special about His body other than He was without sin.
    That is why He had to be Baptised in The Holy Spirit before He could start His ministry.
    Likewise we need the baptism in the Holy Spirit before we can live and act like Him.
    Greater things than Jesus will we do because He as ascended to The Father. Jesus words not mine!
    He was in every way like us, tempted like us.
    Now I agree His resurrection body is different, but still bore the marks of His crucifixion and is still a physical body. We will also, one day, have a body like His because we are His brothers and he is the first born among many brethren.

  134. remarutho says:

    Good Afternoon Mart & Friends –

    The error of claiming Jesus never lived as a flesh and blood man is proven in 1 John 4:1, 2, 3. The First Council of Nicea in the 4th c. AD affirmed that Jesus Christ “was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became truly human.” So, we may take the Nicene Creed to heart. It is the truth.

    If you set out to strongly defend the faith, please be sure of the true faith before you wage your war! There is no substitute for reading and studying Scripture (the Holy Bible).

    Blessings,
    Maru

  135. remarutho says:

    I reference your 1:03 pm post, Confeticat. –Maru

  136. narrowpathseeker says:

    I’m sorry but this is the way I see things right now. While there are many uplifting beautiful messages on all the different subjects here, there has always been at least one intentionally rude, condescending, insulting agitator. When that one leaves another takes his/her place. Then there is one everpresent that returns the same with the same. If it is a test of my patience, I have failed because it has served only to tempt me to indulge in the same cruel and unkind words and to rob peace and joy. This has jumped out at me for two days in a row, so I am going to leave for awhile before I regress any further. 2nd Timothy 2:16) But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17) And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

    I have thought to delete this and just leave quietly, but I have decided to submit it and hope that this wonderful blog survives what I can only see as destructive forces at work.

  137. remarutho says:

    For my part in your pain, Narrow, I ask your forgiveness. Maru

  138. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Hi Narrow,

    I to am sorry if I have been babbling on and got carried away.
    Just have been so excited at what Jesus is doing here and forgot others may not be so inspired.
    I hope you are ok and everything is well at yours and your daughters house.
    I often see a picture of you at the riverside in my mind.
    Pray for me please and I will pray for you.
    It is good to pray one for another and not to dwell on our own burdens.
    Love You!
    Bob

  139. confeticat says:

    How do you know there was nothing special about Jesus’ body? It would have had to be special because the Holy Spirit took the place of both father and mother in his conception. And where did his body disappear to in the tomb?

    Jesus didn’t have to be baptized in the Holy Spirit before he started his ministry. He did it as an example to us. Then he was filled with the Spirit before he was tempted by the devil, also an example to us (John 14:17).

    He was tempted in every way like us YET WITHOUT SIN.

    How do you know his resurrection body bore the marks of the crucifixion? That would have been expected after death on a cross. Sounds like you people have no opinion of your own only the opinion of others who sound like they are firmly rooted in some deeper knowledge you have yet to achieve.

    The Gospels don’t say there were nailprints in his hands and feet. He showed his disciples his hands and feet. That was part of the miracle – there were none!

  140. Bill says:

    @confeticat, what do make of John 20:24-29?

    “So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.”.” (John 20:25, ESV)

    According to my Bible, the Gospels do say there were nailprints in his hands. Thomas needed to touch them to believe.

    Are you spoofing us when you say there weren’t any?

    Or am I misreading the Scriptures?

  141. poohpity says:

    If any of us has a grudge against another we are taught a few things, one is that we all have faults so we need to give the same mercy we have received and bear with one another Eph 4:2; Col 3:13. So then what are we to do if we see someone who is teaching something different but it is not based on the Word of God? Do we complain against them, call names or even put them down or do we with a humble spirit direct them to what the Word says knowing that at anytime we each could be wrong as well? (Eph 4:2,3,4,5; Col 3:9,12,13,14)

    How do we have discussions about anything, by all being in agreement and being yes people when the truth is not there? Teach me how to do that. Will we agree about the basics, I do hope so because that is what we base our faith on but I also believe it is possible to talk over other areas we disagree, with no hard feelings or resentments, knowing that we all need correction at times because we do not have all the answers. When someone gives me another way to think about something I certainly do not feel it is a put down, I am not that closed minded to think I know it all and have nothing else to learn.

  142. confeticat says:

    Bill, I’m not spoofing you. Thomas expected to find the nailprints. When he didn’t, he exclaimed “My Lord and my God!” This is not written in stone but it’s the explanation that makes sense to me. (sorry Fanny Crosby)

  143. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Thanks Bill,
    Nearly 10pm here and just been reading the end of the gospels to see if I was missing something.
    Was going to post John 20:24-29
    I was going go on to talk about Jesus baptism in water etc.
    But have just about given up trying to reason with someone who obviously does not read the Bible for himself but relies on others to form an opinion.
    Very silly and dangerous place to be.
    May God take care of you and protect you from harmful spirits confeticat.

  144. confeticat says:

    You see, you thought they said there were marks in his hands and feet. We all did. We took someone’s word for it and assumed it was there. That happens with other things too.

  145. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I know there are marks and a wound in His side.
    The disciples saw them and Thomas would not believe them until he himself could put His finger in the marks an in His side. They all had eight days to talk it over.
    Jesus specifically asked Thomas to reach out his finger and see His hands.
    And to put his hand and place it in My side.
    If there had been no wound Jesus would have said feel my side or place it on my side, but it clearly states Jesus said “place your hand IN My side”
    May be a subtle point but Jesus never said idle words by mistake!

  146. confeticat says:

    That was just like Jesus – he knew Thomas was in for a surprise. He probably had a twinkle in his eye as he said it, becuse Thomas was the one who specified “into his side”. And Thomas had to stand very close to Jesus to do this, so that probably before he even got his hand to the place of the wound he knew it was Jesus.

  147. davids says:

    Hi narrowpathseeker, yes I am amazed by the patience some people have here. I continue to pray for you.

  148. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    confeticat,

    May I ask you a question?
    Why do you post on a christian blog like this when you disagree with basic christian beliefs, the teachings of Paul, the term Christ, which is just Greek for Messiah.
    And tend to argue black is white and white is black like a devils advocate disagreeing with people just for the sake of it.
    I know Mart welcomes free discussion which is a basic human right in our societies and God forbid we should all agree with the “company line”, but there are lots of people who no longer take part here because there is too much contention and argument.
    It would be nice if we could look for common ground and talk about the things that unite us rather always being negative.

    Bob

  149. confeticat says:

    I would hope there are many things that unite us since we believe in Jesus. I didn’t come to argue, I just answer the questions I’m asked and these questions are often provocative.

    Saying I call black white and white black is kind of a silly thing to say. I have read some of the blogs before I came on here, and know for a fact that people on here were argumentative before I arrived. The people who have left did so because they were run off. They said what they believed and got beaten down for it.

    Your tactics will not work with me. My Lord has told me “No weapon that is formed against you will prosper; and every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their vindication is from me, saith the Lord.” (Isa. 54:17)

  150. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    There are no tactics my friend, or weapons formed against you, just brothers and sisters who want to share Jesus with each other.
    He said, “If I be lifted from the earth I will draw all men unto me”.
    Jesus is the reason that I live.
    I’ve tried most of the other stuff. All broken cisterns!
    My name is Bob, what is yours?

  151. poorinspirit says:

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.The same was in the beginning with God.All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.In him was life; and the life was the light of men.And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not…

    He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.He came unto his own, and his own received him not.But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth…

    Jesus said…, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:…And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?…

    But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe…

    But he (Thomas) said unto them, Except I… thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe…Then saith he(Jesus) to Thomas… reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

    That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
    For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
    That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

    This then is the message which we have heard of Him, and declare unto you, that God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all.If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    If we(Christians) say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the Truth is not in us.If we(Christians) confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    If we(Christians) say that we have not sinned, we make Him (The Lord,God and Saviour, Jesus Christ) a liar, and His(God’s) Word is not in us…

    Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure…

    Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    note: The Bible,(The Written Living Word of God) does not contradict itself.

    Christians do not experience the perfect sinless life while living in our sin corrupted mortal bodies. Rom.7:20.But it is the Perfect Sinless Christ in us that we can experience as we walk, as we have been saved , which is: by Grace through faith; trusting that our Lord Is Merciful to Bless us with the enabling Grace we need, as each of us who are members of the Body of Jesus Christ,His Church, deny ourselves; pick up our crosses daily and follow Jesus Christ: our Lord, God Almighty and Saviour and Messiah of Israel.

    There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

    I’ve heard it said,” when we become Christians by trusting in Jesus’ substitutionary death on the cross for our sin nature and sins and believing in His Resurrection from the dead; it does not mean that we will live perfect sinless lives in our temporary mortal bodies; but because of our new spiritual DNA, when we became born from above,with the Baptism of The Holy Spirit; with The Holy Spirit of Christ in us; God in His Mercy Blesses us with an increasing desire and ability to refrain from habitually sinning.

    Soli Deo Gloria!!!

    Thank you for your patience in reading through this.The Bible verses are from the KJV Bible.

    Let us trust in God’s Mercy and continue In His Grace…

  152. confeticat says:

    I don’t answer to you.

  153. phpatato says:

    Hey Narrow

    Don’t be gone long ok? You will be missed!

    Steve

    Your early morning post and the questions you asked is very much what I was thinking. I too agree:

    “Yes it is with great caution that we should approach the acceptance of others ideas; the guide for it is found openly in Scripture and it is there that the answers can be found to what ever is lacking in any of our lives.” only I would have emphasised GREAT CAUTION.

    Pooh in answer to your question:

    “So then what are we to do if we see someone who is teaching something different but it is not based on the Word of God?”

    We wipe the dust from our feet and move on. Only a fool argues with a fool. Proverbs 26:4 and several more verses like that in Proverbs. Proverbs 22:10

    But based on your thoughts, I suppose I should be opening my door and inviting in for tea those who, while on their bi-annual door to door visits, offer me the WatchTower/Awake tracts. Am I wrong to have been graciously telling them that I am a born again Christian believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that I consider their publication to be part of a cult and closing the door? I’ve doing that for many many years now. Once I took a Watchtower tract but only on condition that they take a Billy Graham tract from me. You should have seen their faces.

  154. remarutho says:

    Good Evening Mart and Friends –

    It is refreshing to look at the topic without the comments as the day wanes. There are no isolated events, it seems to me.

    Mart, you wrote: “By itself, no claim or event means anything, apart from an understanding of the story behind it. That’s why we keep talking about why it is so important to read and reflect on any and every part of the Bible…”

    So we do. I am reading through the book of Ezekiel these days. Events are foretold to the prophet. He knows the day that the king of Babylon lays siege to Jerusalem. He prophesies to the people he is shepherding in exile in the morning; that night his beloved wife dies. It is a day Ezekiel will never forget. The Lord (strangely) commands Ezekiel not to mourn, and to show no public signs of grieving. In his very person he becomes a sign to the Jews in exile.

    Thanks, Mart, for keeping this discussion site open. Thanks for the standard you set for any and all who stop by to read your blog – and to join in. Thanks for the forbearance you show us all. May we remain mindful of your intentions here – may we remain truly your friends.

    Blessings,
    Maru

  155. phpatato says:

    Poorinspirit

    Thank you so much! What a Blessing that was to read.

  156. poohpity says:

    Yes Pat, you are right I am a fool.

  157. phpatato says:

    Dear pooh

    The Bible is right. I only quoted what God has said to us. If you feel within your heart that you are able to win this battle, my prayers are truly with you. Just recognize when it’s time to say enough and not to do battle just for battle sake.

  158. poohpity says:

    Thank you for your feedback. Could it be possible that the last three or four of my comments may have been directed elsewhere and not to whom you think? Just a thought.

  159. cherielyn says:

    confeticat said, and I quote, “I have read some of the blogs before I came on here, and know for a fact that people on here were argumentative before I arrived. The people who have left did so because they were run off. They said what they believed and got beaten down for it.” (Aug 21 6:00 p.m. post)

    I am one of the people who left, not of my own choosing, but because I was unable to access BTA for well over 1/2 year. I was never run off and no one ever beat me down for saying what I believed. I have been pretty silent for the past several posts because of stress in my personal life which is only being further enhanced by reading one particular person’s posts. I am sure that most everyone knows whom I am referring to. I have determined to skip those posted by that person, but once in awhile I accidentally read one because, in my haste, I neglected to look & see who posted it.

    If the time comes that I decide to leave it will be because I can no longer stomach the gross errors in the posts submitted by that person.

  160. foreverblessed says:

    Cherielyn, you could just skip that post, and we still can enjoy your participation.
    Anyway, I was going to tell a little, I was gone for a while, on holyday in Saxony, that is the southern part of what used to be East Germany. That area was behind the iron curtain, but now you can visit it, and it is beautiful. What struck me was that I saw so many what I thought to be british people. But they were not, they were from Saxony, but looked so english.
    Bob was talking about Britain being composed of saxon and anglo peoples. But the saxons came from that part of Germany, where Dresden and Leipzig is. They are family, if they want to know about it or not.
    In the end we are all made of one blood. God made us for the joy of being with Him. And He took care of us through Jesus.
    Bob, you are so inspired, do not let any one take from you that inspiration.
    It was funny, when we were packing to leave the hotel, I just opened my bible for the last line, and what did I read: Isaiah 55:6-7
    Also, in the hotel I could read this blog, only early in the morning, otherwise it was hopeless, but the bible verses would not pop up. Then a comment like poorinspirit, aug 21, 6.58 pm helps, thanks a lot for putting these verses together, what a powerful message that is!

    Anyway, think about God, who all through the ages has endured so many wrong thinking, weird religions, and He is still God, loving, patient, merciful, He is ever waiting for people to turn to Him, like the Fathere waited for the lost son to come back, and then He still had the older son, who had not really turned his heart fully to Him, He is still waiting:
    Open my heart, open my ears
    Open our hearts, open our ears

  161. Regina says:

    Good Morning All,
    WOW! 160 comments! I really missed out! Looking forward to chatting with yall when I have more time.

    Love to all…

  162. Regina says:

    Oh, and Thanks Bob (Cornwall) I missed you and many others too! So glad to be back! :)

  163. poorinspirit says:

    Hi phpatato,

    Your kind words of encouragement display what Mart was referring to in regards to: Jesus’ death and resurrection giving meaning and proportional importance to our lives, when this ultimate, absolute Truth Is by Grace through faith internalized in our Redeemed, Regenerated souls and gives birth to healthy conversation; which has edified this member of the Body of Christ.

    Thank you and God Bless you!

  164. narrowpathseeker says:

    Bob and Maru, I am so very sorry that you thought for one moment that I was referring to either of you in my post Aug 21, at 1:52pm. I count you both among the many(too many to list) on here who write beautiful and uplifting, as well as, informative messages.

    I want to THANK ALL of you here who were praying me through my most recent difficult battle. There were many diverse set backs that I created myself by losing many mini battles with my own false pride and selfishness. I knew God wanted me to go talk to this man about Him one more time, but I didn’t want to risk another encounter with rude, eye rolling arrogance. I KNEW God was not pleased with me, so I planned to do so, but I still procrastinated. Finally, I couldn’t stand that separated feeling from God another minute. The night before he left for the hospital where he was to have surgery, I went to him and I can’t remember how it went..exactly, but I held his hand and talked with him and prayed with him. He squeezed my hand tightly and said THANK YOU! At the hospital, the night before his surgery, he called my daughter back as she was leaving and asked her in front of his roomate and vistors if she would ask me to pray for him again! During surgery, while they were putting in a new valve, his Aorta ruptured and to repair the damage they had to do the open heart which initially they had said he couldn’t survive and thus did this new procedure. He is now in a medically induced coma and they don’t know what other damage has been done. I don’t know how this will end but he HAS accepted Jesus as his savior. This particular battle has been won and I know those of you who prayed me through this have a big part in the victory. Thank you all and may God continue to Bless each of you.

    Cherielyn, I will be praying for you to be relieved of whatever is causing you the stress in your life and hope others here will pray for you as well. I know firsthand the power of prayer from this group here alone and that includes you. I feel as you do about the adversary that has invaded this blog. It is very difficult when already stressed to take on an unnecessary load. I feel strongly that this person needs our prayers as well as our silence.

  165. poohpity says:

    What a faithful saint!

  166. remarutho says:

    Dear Forever!

    I rejoice with you that your nemesis has received through you that precious grace from the Lord! You are faithful, as Pooh says, and obedient to Jesus.

    The Lord Jesus is with us — and will never leave us or forsake us.

    Blessings,
    Maru

  167. remarutho says:

    Note my absent-mindedness, Narrowpathseeker — addressing you as Forever. Sorry, slip of the keyboard. Maru

  168. cherielyn says:

    narrowpathseeker,

    Thank you, so much, for sharing the great news! PTL! Continuing to pray for you.

    Thank you, also, for your prayers. I have shared little bits, here & there, in the past, about the stress in my life. In a nutshell, I have a 45 yr old son who has been mentally handicapped from birth. He was diagnosed with early onset Lewy Body Dementia in spring, 2009. His dementia is progressing & he will probably need to be in assisted living or a nursing home within the next couple years. Currently he lives on his own & has a caregiver that comes in 5 days a week for short periods of time.

    My husband is not his father, but has been in my son’s life since he was 3 yrs old. They don’t get along. My son is high functioning, but still has his limitations in some areas. My husband just doesn’t get it that my son can’t function the way he thinks he should be able to & he constantly berates him for every little thing that annoys him. My husband also has a problem with managing his anger & gets very verbally abusive at times both with my son and me. If I believed in divorce, I would have been out of here years ago. I just pray for daily strength to bear up under the double load.

    Yes, I agree about needing to pray for the difficult individual on here. I suspect they are male because of a derogatory comment made about women several topics before this one.

  169. remarutho says:

    Hello Cherielyn, Narrow & Pooh —

    Prayers going up for your situations and for the Lord’s guiding and presence with you.

    Yours in Christ,
    Maru

  170. royalpalm says:

    Thank you narrow and cherielyn for your testimonies – God has chosen you to bear witness to His goodness, grace, mercy and love by placing you where you are right now and I praise God for His wisdom, strength and presence that helped you cope and manage.

    How you handled your lives with grace and obedience reminds me of Mary when the angel informed her that she will be used by God for His purpose-to bear a Son before she was married…, a Son who will be great Luke 1:29-31- a role that will bring her uncertainty, shame, ridicule and pain.
    Nevertheless her faith made her to respond, “Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” Luke 1:38 She is called blessed and you both are likewise blessed like her. Luke 1:42

    I will also continue to pray for you..

  171. narrowpathseeker says:

    Royalpalm, thank you for the prayers that helped me throughout this battle. Everytime I came here with a give up attitude, I got encouragement and prayers. Royal, aren’t you in FL? I will be praying for you as Isaac makes his way to shore.

  172. royalpalm says:

    narrow, your kindness has touched my heart – no I am in the Canadian Prairies. Somehow we are not very much affected by adverse weather like tornado, typhoons or earthquakes but our winters are longer. I like to garden to make the most of warm days. Like Maru we got lots of apples from our garden this year and lots of berries.

    God’s desires everyone to be saved and He used you to reach out even when he was rude and abusive. Jesus said, “Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons off God” Matt. 5:9 and this was what you did- your humility and obedience enabled him to have peace with God; you are truly a child of God!

    Narrow, your faith and humility have also encouraged me. You are so special and I pray that God’s love, joy, peace and hope will help you carry on each day. Do not give up! He will never leave you nor forsake you. He loves you.

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