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Adam and Jesus

Photo by: Steve Walker

In our last conversation we talked about whether it is helpful to compare and contrast what the Bible says about Samson and Jesus.

I raised the issue because I’ve been thinking about the way New Testament authors see Jesus in the Old Testament; whether we should see parallels only when the New Testament  tells us they are there; or whether the Living Word of God brings fullness of meaning to far more than what students of the Bible call “types” of Christ.

An example of a formal “type” for instance is the first human. Paul says that Adam is a “type” of the One who is to come (Rom 5:14).

Paul’s point is that Adam was a “type” of Jesus in that, as by Adam’s disobedience sin comes to all , so by Jesus’ obedience  salvation comes to all. The point is not that Adam was a kind of Jesus but rather that in Adam we can find a foreshadowing pattern of the Son of God.

That raises another question. Is Adam, or any other person or thing, deserving of comparison or contrast to Jesus only when–and to the extent that– the Bible directly and unambiguously calls a pattern  to our attention? Or is there a mysterious relationship beyond the written and living Word of God that is far more expansive?

Consider, for instance, the  ways in which the formal and limited type that Paul talks about in his letter to the Romans might  be part of a bigger picture:

Similarities between Jesus and Adam—

1.  Both were called the son of God (Luke 3:38; Matt 4:1-6)

2.  Both came into the world without a human father

3.  Both were born of the Spirit of God

4.  Both were called to rule over creation

5.  Both were described as being husbands to a wife.

6.  Both were objects of Satan’s attempts to corrupt

7.  Both made choices that affected all

8.  Both died because of sin

Differences between Adam and Jesus–

1.  Adam was made in the likeness of God. Jesus was a Son equal to his Father.

2.  Adam was born when the spirit of God breathed life and soul into him. Jesus was born supernaturally when the Spirit of God came upon the virgin Mary.

3.  Adam and his wife Eve were to told to oversee the earth and all of its creatures. Jesus is a King of kings and Lord of lords, whose kingdom is much greater than our present world.

4.  Adam was made to be one flesh with Eve. Jesus is described as the God/husband who is made one with his people Israel (Jer 31:31-32) and the Church (Eph 5:25-32) (Rev 19:9).

5.  Satan tempted Adam and his wife in a garden paradise. Satan tempted/tested Jesus in a barren wilderness.

6.  Adam made a choice that brought sin and death to all his descendants. Jesus made a choice that brings rightness and life to all who are born of him. (Rom 5:15-19)

7.  Adam died for his own sin. Jesus died for our sin (2 Cor 5:22).

8.  Adam gave us temporary physical life marked by sin that breaks faith with God. Jesus offers us eternal life in a way that reconciles us to the One our parents distrusted.

One reason this kind of study makes some of us uncomfortable is that the study of typology has been misused to teach “the deep things of Scripture” that often seem to say more about the imagination of the teacher than the real nature of the Scripture.

Even worse, some have used parallels like this to give the Bible “spiritual” meanings that can be very misleading and even heretical. This would happen for instance if someone took the comparison between Jesus and Samson to imply that, like Samson, Jesus also sinned; or the comparison between Jesus and Joseph to imply that, like Jesus, Joseph was without sin (Am thinking here of Joseph the son of Jacob who was sold into slavery to suffer at the hands of others, so that in the end he could deliver the brothers who had betrayed him).

So, given the risks of misuse, does it help us to go beyond the boundaries of formal typology (i.e. finding comparisons only when the Bible itself calls them out)?

Again, I’m thinking that it can make our lives better, richer, and fuller to wonder at the way Jesus brings fullness of meaning to everything that is good, true, and beautiful– even as we realize that everything that is wrong, deceitful and twisted is that for which Christ died. But, as I’ve mentioned above, there are risks to be weighed. And I hope you’ll feel free to explore this more with me– or honestly disagree.


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112 Responses to “Adam and Jesus”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    One of the many things Jesus has changed in me is not so much the way I see things as much as whom I see in all things.

    I apologize for the word picture, but no matter how angry I may get, especially to a point of physical reaction I see a beaten and battered Christ not a son of Adam. And the anger fades away.

    Since I can say that even Eve came from Adam, we people of the earth are all sons and daughters of Adam. We are all Adam, we are still Adam, and Adam still lives in each and every one of us.

    Knowing that all things were made through the Son then I see clearly that it was Jesus who not only formed Adam from the dust of the earth, but also Jesus who it was that breathed life into him/us.

    So in comparing the similarities and the differences between Adam and Jesus, we can just as easily do the same with each and every one of us in comparison to Jesus.

    Adam and Eve were the only people in all of humanity not to have a belly button.

    All the rest of us do, including Jesus of Nazareth.

    This simple visual observation makes Jesus as human as any of the rest of us. Except that Jesus’ Spirit is no less than the Holy Spirit and ours a created spirit that came from the breath of God.

    If we believe that in the beginning there was no death, then we are left to believe that Adam’s body was created to be eternal. If we accept that through Adam’s disobedience death came to creation and so to us all, then we understand that death was defeated by the Author of life at the cross and in the new resurrected body of Jesus we see the new first man of a new creation that can not die and so can not decay as is the fate of Adam/us.

    One thing I am sure of I am already forever changed, and able to see the face of Christ covering all of humanity almost as a shield and what ever I do or don’t do to all I do to Him.

    I am not sure where this comparative look will go Mart, but I am sure as you said earlier we will get lots of our own imaginings along with some revelation knowledge.

    39 degrees this morning, fall knocks at the door and is most welcome.

    Steve

  2. Mart De Haan says:

    Steve, you’re right. And the New Testament does do those comparisons and contrasts between Jesus and us.

    Thanks for getting us going. Fall is also coming here to Michigan. Since we didn’t really have a Spring here though because of an unseasonably warm winter and early summer, we’re kind of wondering what Fall is going to look like.

    Just checked and it’s 47 here– way up north of ya :-)…

  3. styler324 says:

    I think the comparison / contrast of Jesus / Samson, Jesus / Adam ect…. is very beneficial to us. It serves to enlighten our knowledge and understanding. Comparisons and contrasts might also bring our attention to elements or ideas that we might not think of on a day to day basis without the information being presented for thought! We also had a very warm winter as well as a hot summer I am wondering also about Fall in Griffin Ga. Temp. 63 right now.

  4. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Just to get it out of the way….
    In west Cornwall we had a mild winter, short warm spring(March), long cold wet summer so Autumn is going to be much the same> :-(
    London had super hot weather for the whole Olympic & Paralympic weeks then on the Tuesday after it finished the rain and cool weather came! Someone was smiling on us!

    Mart, I think Steve is right in the fact you are really comparing Jesus with us. Adam has very little to do with it other than sin came into the world through one mans actions that effects us all and was removed from the world by ones mans actions that effects us all.
    They both had a choice, one chose to disobey & the other chose to Obey.
    As Steve says, only Adam & Eve don’t show the marks of birth, we do and so does Jesus.
    Jesus also has the marks of death, something we will never know because of His love for us.
    I go back to what Narrow said yesterday & I followed up.
    We all have different revelations of God, Jesus & The Word at different times & The Holy Spirit reveals stuff to us at different times.
    This type of comparison between people & circumstances in the scriptures is really a part of this ongoing work of The Holy Spirit and is different for us all at any given time.
    So I feel these kind of revelations are a personal thing and often difficult to appreciate in a “group think” such as this.
    Interesting though!

    Bob

  5. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends –

    It seems to me that your comment is right on – that too much analogy and comparison Scripture to Scripture leads to a twisting of meaning. The writer of 2 Peter teaches that:
    “…no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” (2 Peter 1:20, 21)

    Mart, you wrote: “Again, I’m thinking that it can make our lives better, richer, and fuller to wonder at the way Jesus brings fullness of meaning to everything that is good, true, and beautiful– even as we realize that everything that is wrong, deceitful and twisted is that for which Christ died.”

    One question that has emerged from my life lately is: Why are you here? I believe I should ask that question with humility before God every day – and then listen for God’s word, by the Holy Spirit to answer and show me. Again, getting on a single track, established by me, leads too easily away from what the Lord has for me in his kingdom day by day. Am I heavenly-minded – or am I worldly-minded? Can I always assume that I have scoped out God’s will perfectly? Do I need (frequent) course correction? And, how does Scripture shape my thinking, will and action? No human is immune from the sin-nature.

    42 deg. F in the Willamette Valley this morning. Warm and dry day forecast here. Dry leaves filling the paths and byways. Blackberries getting sweet.

    Blessings,
    Maru

  6. SFDBWV says:

    Please allow me a little freedom as I express my ponderings; in Genesis 1: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 we see creation, present were God, The Spirit of God the Light, darkness and waters.

    In John 1: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 we have God, the Word, darkness and the Light. In John 1: 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 the Light and John are shown as being different, but that through that same Light all men become sons of God, born, but not by flesh and blood.

    In 1 John 5: 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 we read that as children/sons of God we have overcome the world; a world that had overcome our flesh and blood ancestor Adam.

    We read that Jesus though born of the water was also by His blood born as well and that the Holy Spirit bears witness because the Spirit is Truth.

    In 1 John 5: 7 is clearly shown the Trinity as being one. In 1 John 5: 8 we see again The Holy Spirit along with water as in the beginning in Genesis 1: 2, but this time instead of the Light it is the blood of the Light that bears witness and agrees as one.

    Every child born of woman experiences a water birth, every child of God experiences a new birth because of the blood of Christ.

    This one great difference is the basic separation between all people.
    1 John 5: 9, 10, 11, 12 he that believes on the Son/Jesus has life, he that doesn’t has not life.

    Adam’s sin, not Adam, brought death and continues to, Jesus’ sacrifice brings life and continues to for all who accept it.

    Adam was flesh and blood, Jesus was also flesh and blood, but it is there that the similarities end; I will elaborate at a later post.

    Steve

  7. alisdt2 says:

    I find it very interesting and I understand what you mean by some people making these analogies heretical, but I really love your writings in “I’ve been thinking” they have opened my eyes to understanding more about Jesus our christian walk, and knowing God’s Word. Thank you.

  8. SFDBWV says:

    Maru I was *creating* and typing as you posted; just wanted to share that my son Matthew asks me a hundred times a day “Why am I here” and an equal number of times I remind him he is here for me.

    His question and yours this morning reminds me of the fact that we are never here for ourselves, but for others in what ever way God has given us to be in service to Him by way of serving the needs of others.

    Sometimes it may just be a friendly smile.

    Steve

  9. remarutho says:

    Hello Steve!

    Yes! We are here for one another, aren’t we? And, as I head to a fellowship this morning, I hope we are heavenly-minded as we open the Acts of the Apostles today. When we look into the Scriptures together, the dynamic becomes much more complex — being together, sharing the four marks of the church (devoting ourselves to the teaching of the apostles, fellowship, breaking of bread and prayer).

    What are we going to do together? We need first to affirm the others around us — and to make disciples.

    Seems simple to tell it — but it gets complex!

    :o) Have a blessed day! Maru

  10. poohpity says:

    I forgot now but that video you had us watch Mart with the typology with several people from the OT as a type of Christ and it sounded so good but I failed to see Jesus in those people, maybe pointing us to Jesus but how can any human being be a type of Jesus. If I remember right it mentioned Abraham, Joseph and Moses as being types of Christ to me was so heretical. How can anyone ever compare to Christ, directing us to but type, no. I have to say his imagination was good but truth not found there yet people unaware bought into that video because it sounded good to the ear.

    God gave Adam only one law, do not eat of the tree of knowledge. Through that one act of disobedience separation happened not because God left them but they were ashamed of themselves to go to their creator. God seem to want a relationship so bad that at that point He decided another plan would have to happened to restore that fellowship. It was not the law but the One person who could follow that law because He Himself was the law. Fully Holy and fully flesh. There is no way to compare any person to that although some would like to think of themselves as being a savior.

    I think Paul’s type reference to Adam was a contrast not a comparison. Adam, man’s sin and Christ, God’s forgiveness. Romans 5:15,16NLT

  11. poohpity says:

    Mart your question, ” Is Adam, or any other person or thing, deserving of comparison or contrast to Jesus only when–and to the extent that– the Bible directly and unambiguously calls a pattern to our attention?” Yes if the bible has us see a comparison or contrast then check it out but if a teacher wishes us to see more than is there then I would find another teacher because the imagination has gone wild. Sadly I would have to say that is the norm rather than the exception lately.

  12. poohpity says:

    Having cooler than norm weather here in AZ, it actually feels like a fall day rather than summer to fall, back to summer. Maybe we will have a winter this year, below 70 is a winter to me, lol.

  13. Mart De Haan says:

    poohpity, are you thinking of a “type” as “a kind of” rather than as “an imprint or pattern that foreshadows the real person or thing?”

    Animal sacrifices are said to be “types” of Christ because i.e. Jesus is the ultimate “Lamb of God”.

    On the other hand, I’ve been suggesting something far more expansive and inclusive than what is usually meant by “types”.

    I can’t think of anything more honoring to Christ than to say that everything that exists points to him in one way or another. If it’s good, it originally came from him and points to him as the infinitely “greater better.” If it’s bad it points to the reasons for which he died.

    It’s this broader sense that I think helps to explain how the written words of Scripture point forward to and find fullness of meaning in The Living Word.

  14. Mart De Haan says:

    I should have added that the Greek word translated “type” in Rom 5:14 is used in several other places in the NT where it is rendered as “example” or “pattern”.

    I thought the short video by Tim Keller that I referred to some time ago was so good because it emphasized that, as the Book of Hebrews shows us, Jesus is infinitely and eternally better than and greater than the sacrifice, temple, priesthood, written Word of God etc.

  15. narrowpathseeker says:

    I came here early and although I don’t think I have ever found anything Mart writes lacking in interest, I felt right away that this food for thought was not essential for my present spiritual ailments. In addition to that, I didn’t feel that I had any morsels to share at this table, so it was off to the river for me.

    As I got settled in the glider, I read first, Psalm 51 and then opened up the devotional I had grabbed on my way out. There, between the pages, was the Discovery Series booklet I had received awhile back. This happens so often that one would think that when I lost a booklet, that I would just go shake out all of the larger books to find it. However, I think God has me find what I am looking for when HE wants me to find it! This morning, it was The Forgiveness of God!!! Mart, for me at this time, I think this is your greatest work ever!!! And that is pretty GREAT!! Thank you!

    I believe I had started to read it at another time, but it didn’t grab my full attention like it did this morning. Then when I saw part of Psalm 51 on page two, which I had just read from the bible only seconds before, I was convinced that this was another example of His timing.

    I am going to read it over and over and try to get it so deeply embedded in this feeble brain of mine that I can’t forget it. I am going to abstain from other food for thought for a few days or weeks, but I will be back, but I will be thinking of, as well as praying for you all. God Bless us ALL!

  16. poohpity says:

    I am thinking an imprint or pattern that foreshadows a real person or thing if that even explains it. Animal sacrifices were a pattern that foreshadows the ultimate sacrifice. I think it all foreshadows the desire of God to have first place and dependent life in Him through Christ.

    I do not feel that “everything” in the OT points to the person of Jesus well unless it is the God in Him as a broader emphasis because there is so much more. I do not know if I can even explain what I mean.

    I did not feel the Keller video was a representation of pattern or symbol as much as it was for type (a person or thing having the features of). When I look up type it can have many meanings and just maybe that is what I am trying to say about Christ. Far above our limited imaginations to something that is not explainable by words but when we try we already put a limit on it.

  17. foreverblessed says:

    Have been away for a few days, and reading to catch up, I read the former topic too, the comparison between Samson and Jesus, Cherielyn wrote Sep 15, 6.40 am, 2 Cor 2:10, and that really did hit the nail to me, as Narrow said, it is all about forgiveness. We are saved because God forgave us through Jesus, His death paid for all our sins, also the sins of Samson, of Adam of all who are a type of Jesus, and we should see them with different eyes, eyes that know about forgiveness.
    Eyes full of grace and truth and love.

    Reading the bible and understanding what it has to tell us is a learning process. In my old church we often read this scripture:
    2Peter 3:18
    “But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.”
    And this verse is very appropriate to this subject, we have to learn to see Jesus in the bible.
    And I already learned today, when reading that 2 Cor verse, about forgiveness, suddenly I saw Samson in a totally different light, forgiven, new,

  18. rozz says:

    Hello All – I just want to say thank you for sharing your insight. I have read through them all and now I’m filled with lots of thought. I’m also looking forward to a follow up. God Bless. Oh, by the way its a beautiful, sunny day here in Saratoga Springs, NY. 68 degress. God also smiled on us today. : )

  19. poohpity says:

    Paul used the contrast of Adam and Jesus used the contrast of Jonah (Matt 29:39,40) I do not remember another contrast or type. I can see Jesus in a lot of things in the OT especially when he was talked about by several OT prophets Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel just to name a couple and by kings like David. Can my imagination see that Jesus is a true and better Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Jonah yes but to contrast or compare them to Jesus I believe tries to put some what of a more human spin to Jesus than we was. Maybe did they foreshadow what Jesus would act like or do maybe but is that what we are to do with scripture say things are there when they aren’t or maybe I am missing something.

  20. poohpity says:

    ooops that was Matt 12:39,40. If someone finds a matt 29 let me know, lol.

  21. poohpity says:

    So Mart, do you think that Keller was right in seeing parallels that are not there and does that show that we now have more access to the complete compilation of scripture that we can see more parallels than they had back then. I am not sure about that. Did they not have enough then to see them if they are there?

  22. kingdomkid7 says:

    I remember liking the Keller video. Didn’t see it as heretical but as something that lined up, actually, with Jesus’ own teaching, “beginning at Moses and all the prophets” (KJV Luke 24:27) when he “expounded unto [the two on the road to Emmaus] in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.”
    From that, I just agreed with what i thought the video was saying — that the Bible is more about Him than about us. I really don’t remember any talk from that video about “types,” but my memory could be at fault. And maybe ithe video was saying a lot more than I saw. Either way, I do agree we should be careful with analogies.

  23. poohpity says:

    The only parallel that I ever remember Jesus giving was to the Father except for the sign of Jonah.

    kingdom, in a Bible that has cross references to that Luke passage most seem to mention things in scripture like Isaiah 53:1-12 for just one of the many.

  24. kingdomkid7 says:

    My Bibles give many cross references, yes, Pooh. But the message of them seems to be that of God’s unchanging promise. See, e.g., Micah 7:20, the last scripture of that book : “Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.” (KJV)
    Jesus is the fulfillment of that promise. Don’t want to argue about it. I just didn’t think the Keller video spewed heresy,

    Lovely weather here in suburban D.C. today. Sunny and 75.

  25. davids says:

    “Is Adam, or any other person or thing, deserving of comparison or contrast to Jesus only when–and to the extent that– the Bible directly and unambiguously calls a pattern to our attention?”

    The Bible clearly contains foreshadowings. Jesus compared himself to the brazen serpent that Moses set up to save those bitten by serpents, a nice tie-back to Adam.

    This is a type in the narrow sense, and is clearly instructive. The problem comes when we try to extend a foreshadowing or a comparison to all of a man. This gets us into the compare/contrast mode that we run into with Adam and Samson.

    The NT might tell us that Samson’s faith was an example, or a type, but that does not tell us that Samson or Adam themselves were models of Jesus. We might also use other instructive comparisons between the OT and Jesus, as long as we don’t take them too far.

  26. poohpity says:

    Sad that you may have thought I was arguing about anything. I thought we were just discussing. I have no problem with others having different thoughts or opinions at all. If anytime I do not agree and I am found to be arguing or putting another down then there is obviously a problem in the way I discuss things and being offensive in some way that I do not see or how I feel in my heart. So it is an area I really need to take a step back and take a closer look in my communications skills.

  27. poohpity says:

    “Jesus is the true and better Abraham who answered the call of God to leave all that was comfortable and familiar and to go into the world—into the void, not knowing whither he went.”(Tim Keller) That is just one of the areas I found to be a bit of a stretch for me because Jesus knew where He was going and knew what he would find there but “And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed” Genesis 12:3 speaking of Abraham’s seed that I see the foreshadowing of Jesus.

  28. Mart De Haan says:

    poohpity, no I do not think it is right for anyone to press parallels that are not there. I understand your concern when you say that the Abraham parallel is a stretch.

    You are right that Jesus knew where he was going in the sense that he had come to die and to lead fallen prodigals back to his Father’s house.

    There also may be more of a mystery here though that lines up with the parallel of faith that Keller is talking about. Many conclude from what the Scripture says about Jesus “emptying himself” that when he left heaven he did lay aside the independent exercise of his Divine attributes so as to have to trust his Father– through the Spirit– for any knowledge that was given to him.

    The idea of him being truly man so as to trust God completely in a way that the first Adam (probably referring to both man and woman) didn’t involves entrusting himself to the Father’s understanding– and also learning obedience by the things he suffered.

    On the other hand, as to your point– you’re right, if the parallel is not there in the normal meaning of the text it would be misleading and dangerous to imagine it.

    I may be fooling myself, (which is why it’s so good to test one another) but I’m assuming that the kind of comparing and contrasting that I want us to test does not establish or change the meaning of the text. Rather by comparing and contrasting parallels that are real we come to focus and perspective in light of who Jesus is and what he has done for us, and why we would be hopelessly lost without him.

  29. billystan864 says:

    So far I like the way your post has been addressed, Mart. Just as an aside i would add this, “For God is not the author of confusion but of peace….” 2Cor. 14:33. I only say this because this conversation, through no one’s fault, could get complicated quickly. It would be extremely easy to start chasing rabbits, but it also can be a very valuable way for all of us to learn something new from each other. I’ll wait until tomorrow for more posts to be submited to say anything else other than thank you, all of you for your participation and your feedback.

  30. poohpity says:

    Mart, I hope to never say anything other than Jesus and what he has done for us and I confess that I would be hopelessly lost without Him. I really can not explain what I think Jesus knew about the understanding from the Father and how all that really worked but I do read that Jesus was there when it was all created and nothing that is would not be without Him. I have to admit the relationship between The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are things I do not feel comfortable guessing about.

    I think the plan was set into motion as early as Genesis 3:15, that would lead me to think Jesus was part of that plan and while laying down His power did not lay down His relationship and with that relationship was wisdom and trust in the plan, if that even begins to be a descriptor of what that really means, I do not know.

    Some of the comparing and contrast does not change the text but I believe we can read more into it than is really there by making hunches as to what constitutes an area we can contrast or compare. I feel the example that Jesus gave us to follow was complete trust in God the Father. Abraham trusted in God the Father but not enough to not lie, that is a comparison I feel safe to make because I say I trust but there are many times I try and do things my way so I understand Abraham.

    I do not claim to know but I want to learn. Am I discounting Keller with no foundation of mistrust by what he taught, I am not sure. I do know the experience when I listened and it did not fit into some of the foundations of what little I know and the comparisons seemed a little off to me. Am I wrong or right I do not know if that even really matters but would be interested in listening to others on this issue.

    I guess trying to compare any human being to Jesus is just really hard for me. I can see foreshadowing in some of their actions that may look like what Jesus is about but never will there be anyone like Jesus and to contrast or compare to a regular human being that I am not sure is a good thing to do because there really is no one but Him who is like Him but The Father and The Holy Spirit.

  31. kingdomkid7 says:

    Pooh, I didn’t say that you were arguing. I was making an affirmative promise not to argue about a point that i could see we may not ever agree about. Maybe that came across as a description of what i thought you were doing, but that’s not what I was saying. This online communication thing is very delicate I see. My apologies to you!!!

  32. fadingman says:

    I had studied various types of Christ, including comparing the first Adam with the Last Adam. Of the many similarities and contrasts, the one that gives me the most thought is how Adam (with Eve) and Jesus were the only ones to fully realize what they lost when sin entered the world.

    Before the Fall, Adam was in perfect communion with God. He was spiritually alive from the beginning. When he sinned, the loss he suffered from his separation from God cannot be comprehended by the rest of us who start out life spiritually dead.

    Jesus also was in communion with the Father for all of eternity, except for a few hours on the cross. The physical pain of crucifixion was nothing compared to the severance of fellowship in the Trinity when the Father had to turn His face away from the Son because of our sin. Perhaps Adam felt somewhat the same way when cast out of the garden. Perhaps Adam is the first to say, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

    I believe before the fall God walking in the garden of Eden was a Christophany – Jesus walked with Adam. In a way, when Adam sinned, both experienced death, for not only was Adam separated from God, God was separated from Adam. Both also experienced physical death. Adam eventually died physically, and Jesus died on a cross.

  33. foreverblessed says:

    Why can’t Samson be a type if Jesus? He showed a part of Jesus that was to come.
    As Davids said, even the brazen serpent was a type of Jesus. If a brazen serpent, which is dead can be a type, why can’t Samson be a type?
    A type is not exactly the same as the original, a type only shows a part of Jesus. And Jesus is above all, nothing, nobody can compare to Him.
    But then there is the thing of forgiveness, which Narrow talked about yesterday, suddenly she saw how great the essence of forgiveness is. We can see Samson in a totally new light, all forgiven and made clean, holy and unblemished in God’s sight, and so there is no problem in that sense either, all his sins are gone. We should see Samson as new!
    But we see the old man of Samson, and we say, how can such a sinning man be a type of Jesus?
    Our understanding and our vision is blirred when we do not see this forgiveness. Peter tells us that if we miss anything that is of spiritual value, it is because we have forgotten that we have been forgiven. “If anyone does not have them(f.i. knowledge) he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins”. 2Peter 1:9
    So my understanding is this: if I do not yet see Jesus in many parts of the bible, it is because I am not yet up to it, I need to grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. 2Peter 3:18

  34. SFDBWV says:

    It is written that God created man in *their* own image (Genesis 1: 26, 27, 28). There are entire books written just from these three verses, and I could quickly divert my thoughts down several tangents from them so I will strain to keep on our topic.

    Here we see that Adam and so all of mankind both male and female are made in the *image* of the plural name for God.

    An image or a shadow of the real thing is not quite the real thing, but only an image or reflection of it.

    If you do a study of the Trinity, what you find is that all throughout Scripture the same things are said of each representation of the God Head. In doing so you find Christ sewn into the fabric of Scripture everywhere (Psalms 40: 7) (Luke 24: 44) (Hebrews 10: 7).

    Equally all throughout the *Book* is mankind, because the whole story is about God and Adam. Adam being fallen and lost and God making a way to redeem fallen Adam and restore him.

    As we read then in Scripture of each and every person both male and female we can then see *images* of Christ and *contrasts* of Christ in the lives and actions of all of mankind, in each and every story in each and every hero and despot.

    Images, likenesses, similarities, shadows of the real thing.

    Last evening I watched a TV program on GAC where Trace Atkins goes into the cities where he is holding a concert finds and showcases special people who are selflessly donating their time and money in some charitable actions in order to help make the lives of others better.

    The people he exposes and shows as an example are in essence an *example* of Christ.

    An old friend of mine taught me a valuable lesson long ago, when he said “whatever it is you are looking for Steve that is what you will find.”

    He is still right, if I look for Christ in all people I will find both Christ and contrasts to Him.

    That doesn’t mean I compare people to Christ as Christ is incomparable in the sense that there is anyone exactly like Him, but He can be present in everyone either by being an image of or as in contrast.

    I hope I haven’t confused anyone, this all makes sense to me in seeing Adam or Samson or anyone as a type of Christ.

    Steve

  35. Bill says:

    Good Morning All!

    I’ve been reading the comments. So I’m not AWOL. Nor, am I not engaged in the topic. But, for me, the topic is too big, too broad, for me to contribute anything of value. Theologians have written volumes over the generations about the comparisons between Adam and Christ. Anything I could add is inconsequential, mere opinion.

    I will say this: There are times when I am as frail as Adam, prone to as many foibles and faults…and times when I am triumphant in Christ. But, it’s not an either/or proposition. The Christian life is not trying to avoid being Adam, and struggling to be in Christ. The Christian life is both. I am Adam. I am Christ. I am a human being like all Adams and Eves. I am a child of God like all Christians. I am never not the former, and always just the latter. I am both…which makes the Christian life so interesting. It’s a constant tug, a push-and-pull, a longing to do this…but stumbling to do that.

  36. SFDBWV says:

    Bill I think your *mere* opinion is an excellent one, well done, well said.

    Steve

  37. phpatato says:

    Fadingman, I really enjoyed reading your post. I said outloud..WoW! Thank you!

    Bill, I have said it before and I will say it again…I like the way you think. You keep it simple. You said what I was struggling to say quite nicely.

    That being said, I am enjoying reading what each and everyone of you have to say. I just wish we were all in a the comfort of Mart’s study, together sharing the fellowship with each other.

    Sunny but cool morning outside Canada’s Capital. Fog has burned off to show a cloudless sky. Great day to change the beds and hang them on the outside line!

  38. phpatato says:

    Funny how the English language is….I am not changing beds to hang them on the line, I am changing the sheets on the beds, to get them hung on the line. I had portrayed images of a clothesline full of boxsprings and mattresses swaying in the breeze and I didn’t want people saying “Boy those Canadians sure do funny things eh!” lol

    But I know that you knew what I meant. Have a great day!

  39. poohpity says:

    Rofl, that is exactly what I was thinking. I said to myself, “how does she do that?” Thank you for the laugh first thing this morning.

    I found it so wonderful that God did not hide from Adam/Eve, it was Adam/eve who hid from God. I can not get that picture out of my head of God calling to them as He calls to us.

  40. poohpity says:

    I guess where I fall so short is I have never done one of those type studies before nor have I ever heard of them. I will try and check it out today.

  41. SFDBWV says:

    Pooh I am way confused here, who are you talking to?

    Steve

  42. poohpity says:

    The laughing part was to Pat and her bed.

    The hiding part was in reference to what fadingman wrote.

    The I have never done a typology study was about the topic.

  43. phpatato says:

    Now THAT is funny. English is a funny language. Thanks Steve and Pooh for the chuckle out loud!!!

  44. phpatato says:

    Pooh, I have never done a study like that…typology…either and I fully understand what you are saying. My mind is too simplistic I guess…which is why I love the quote “Keep it simple-stupid”. I tell myself that all the time. I leave the heavy thinking to the heavy thinkers.

    I see myself as a simple organ in the body.

  45. poohpity says:

    I guess I would rather say “Keep It Simple Saint”, lol.

    Even though I have not done a Typology study I guess after reading I have seen the promises in the OT being fulfilled in the NT through Jesus. Just have not separated it into a “Typology Study”. After reading about them I can see that one would have to be very careful with them. You could see where some things are delineated into that type of study that may not really be there.

    The Bible my mom gave to me in 1989 was a Life Application Bible so some of that work was already done through the commentaries written at the bottom of the pages. Later in different types of Bible studies it furthered the comparisons but did not separate it into a specific study in types. I think sometimes we can pick things apart so much that it no longer depends on the Holy Spirit for instruction to men/women who have gone before us to teach. The most comprehensive Bible study I was in for 5 years did not allow us to use commentaries but taught us to depend on the Holy Spirit for guidance and instruction.

  46. phpatato says:

    Pooh..I don’t think of myself as a saint…as in Mother Teresa meaning of the word, so I would never say it the way you do when talking to myself. But I don’t think of myself as being stupid either, so that is why I hyphenate simple-stupid. The statement, to me, is that I try to keep everything simple thus making everything then, stupid…simple-stupid…one word meaning but with a hyphen. I don’t say it this way: Keep it simple Stupid (name calling stupid).

    Just to clarify…lol

  47. poohpity says:

    Anyone who accepted Christ as their personal Savior is a Saint. References to that are in the NT letters written to the Saints in the different cities. Mother Theresa was not without sin. So to me you are a Saint. In His Love Deb

  48. SFDBWV says:

    OK pooh what is Rofl?

    Feeling like at least an unenlightened Saint.

    Steve

  49. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Deb/pooh,

    I have never thought of you as a “mother Teresa” figure, more a ” mother Hubbard” type.(in keeping with the topic of types) lol ish

    Yes I am being cynical!
    And yes to the other question!

    Love you!

    Bob

  50. poohpity says:

    Steve, that is “roll on floor laughing” which I was not literally rolling on the floor I would never get up. lol.

    Bob, I do not know what the symbol would be for raspberries but if I did I would give you one, lol. ;-) Hey, there is some food in my cupboard very little but there is some, lol.

  51. SFDBWV says:

    Well get back on the floor pooh because I was looking all up and down the posts for Rofl and for the life of me I couldn’t find him/her or what they posted.

    I guess for a very heady intellectuall topic we have certainly done our best to look more human than anything else.

    It was 35 degrees here this morning, not a good day for hanging out the bed clothes…

    Steve

  52. poohpity says:

    I should have written lvh “laughing very hard” :-)

  53. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    It is good to laugh & we are so lucky, we can laugh across the world.
    Monday the 17th is almost over on this side of the world.
    Deb, I hope it ends good where you are!

    Bob

  54. poohpity says:

    lvh, now!!!

  55. poohpity says:

    Thank you my friend across the pond. So far so good!!

  56. poohpity says:

    Steve I did not know what all those initials were until I my son’s pointed me to a web site that gives all that info. Thank goodness for the internet. You just totally cracked me up!!

  57. phpatato says:

    Pooh……

    :p~~~~~~~

    That’s what I use. lol (Steve – lol = laughing out loud)

    Oh Dearest Steve… text messaging has created a whole new world of talk now. It’s scary. Kids today know how to type with lightening speed but sadly they aren’t able to spell; their grammar is atrocious. It’s called text message shorthand. You can find a comprehensive list at netlingo dot com. Having read them myself, I consider myself dumber now from having done so. I’m afraid I’m being swept over by a huge tidal wave in the technology department and you know, I really don’t care. :-) xoxo

  58. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    We are closer than we think.
    We share on here,we share in other places like face book.
    But at the end of it all we are one in Christ.
    We all have fears and stuff we don’t want to share,but Jesus said, “you will know them by their love”.

    Yes!!!

    or

    No!

    Bob

  59. SFDBWV says:

    Oh my I don’t think I am up to learning an entire new language, Bob already confuses me by just speaking *English*.

    I have spent the last week or two gathering in information to prove who I am to the appropriate list of acceptable proofs, just in order to have my driver’s license renewed.

    I already feel confused enough

    I am off now to finish the day with some dinner, you know from my new diet of trying to make me heart healthy….Gee I didn’t know how unhealthy enjoying dinner was until I had to learn what not to eat…..Kind of like Adam and his *apple*.

    Steve

  60. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Just a thought Steve from Europe/ Britain.
    You have to prove who you are to get a drivers licensed,but, maybe I am wrong, you can get a gun license with almost no id.
    Am I just being European or this there a problem in your country?

  61. poohpity says:

    Amen, we are all one, in Christ!!

    As Mart said, “Again, I’m thinking that it can make our lives better, richer, and fuller to wonder at the way Jesus brings fullness of meaning to everything that is good, true, and beautiful– even as we realize that everything that is wrong, deceitful and twisted is that for which Christ died.”

  62. poohpity says:

    Bob, we have the right to bear arms in the 2nd amendment of the Constitution but each State has rules as to what that looks like. To get a government ID we have to prove we are citizens of this country or have a VISA to have the rights under the Constitution and to drive on the roads.

  63. SFDBWV says:

    The truth is Bob here are a lot of things that need fixing here is the good old USA, but we gun owerns represent the largest standing armed army in the world.

    Not to mention the compound bows, cross bows, and long bows that most sportsmen have in their arsenal as well.

    Maybe you’ve seen one of our revelutionary flags that says “Don’t Tread On Me.”

    It is one of thoes *fixing* things Mr. Obama would like to do, disarm Americans.

    But to technically answer your question, I not only have to go through a process to by a gun now I also have to to just buy ammo. It is the criminals who don’t have to obey the law not law abiding citizens. Getting a license to carry a concealed weapon takes a lot of process, but can be acomplished with enough *money* and patience.

    Enjoying my chicken and rice.

    Steve

  64. poohpity says:

    I watched your Parliament last night and when countries are run by human beings every country has problems. They are not foreign to your country either.

  65. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Wow, I can’t say a lot to you either pooh or Steve.
    Basically you are talking out of your ass, because the world has moved on from your gun slinging mentality of life.
    We, as The British, worked it out a long time ago.
    Please learn to live on this planet & in this world!
    Otherwise you will be subject to ridicule & attack by us all!

    Bob

  66. SFDBWV says:

    I am sorry you have said that Bob, so I will only say in reply that I will choose to forgive you and love you anyway.

    Steve

  67. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I cannot believe the naivety of you nation.
    Get real or be attacked by us in Europe, who are your friends, or those who are you enemies.
    As a brit I no longer wan,t to be associated with you.
    Please learn to live in the community of nations or isolated as that seems to be you will!

  68. poohpity says:

    Wow the conversation really took a turn for the worse!! Yes, a disabled lady was unable to get the care she needed because they have yet to send her a blue card that she requested months and months ago but the back log is so huge, she pleaded for mercy from the Prime Minister just to get the healthcare she needed. Our governments “all” have problems don’t they? :-(

  69. SFDBWV says:

    Bob, please friend don’t say anymore. Turn off your computer and go to bed.

    It isn’t you that is talking and I know it. You are better than this so friend lets say no more of this matter and speak again another day.

    Your Friend
    Steve

  70. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I am not talking here about “issues” I am talking about generic differences between our nations.
    We have been there before you, learn from us.
    I am not trying to be arrogant here, just trying to to stop your country from making a total ass of itself.
    The end is coming, and you think the anti christ will arise from Europe.
    We think it can only come from you!
    Let’s not get carried away.
    Your Nation is totally corrupt, let us not forget that!

    Bob

  71. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Why is it that you & your country, the USA, cannot except any form of criticism.
    You are now a failed nation & will hit back like any hurt animal against the world.
    You will also attack Jerusalem in the last moments of mans will on this Earth. It is in the prophesies.
    I am sure you as a nation cant believe it now but it will happen, I can assure you.

    Happy days

    Bob

  72. phpatato says:

    Wow Bob, I bet you can’t ask Pooh if her day will end on a happy note now.

    Whatever happened? Throwing stones…being judgemental. Is this what Jesus would have us do?

    Bob…Why do you subject the rest of us to your thoughts on the US? I, as a Canadian, am not interested…thanks anyway.

  73. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Because it needs to be said.
    Better said by a friend than an enemy!

  74. remarutho says:

    Good Afternoon All –

    Wow! Checked in just now to see the thread, which I thought was going well. What happened? I have lost the topic in the comments. “Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful…” (2 Corinthians 13:4, 5)

    Mart, you wrote:
    “One reason this kind of study makes some of us uncomfortable is that the study of typology has been misused to teach ‘the deep things of Scripture’ that often seem to say more about the imagination of the teacher than the real nature of the Scripture.”

    Having lived both in Europe (Germany and France) and the USA, let me say that our bonds in Christ supersede any other affiliation. This may be shown to be vitally important in the days ahead. Let us not tar one another with too broad a brush on account of anything, Beloved.

    Yours in Christ,
    Maru

  75. davids says:

    As someone that has lived in both the US and the UK, can I try to make a feeble attempt to retrieve this situation?

    Bob, it was a faux pas to say, “talking out of your ass”. Ass is much more offensive than arse, which would be the same in the US as “butt” or “rear-end”. On the other hand, Bob, I know that Europeans connect the US gun-ownership rights directly to the worst abuses of US violence to solve problems, like the invasion of Iraq (which the UK participated in).

    Steve and Deb, I would only ask you to remember that Bob is a strong pacifist, as are many here in Europe. They cannot understand the “No apologies” and “might makes right” rhetoric espoused by some US politicians. It seems a reflection of the entire US culture. Americans, of course, would not link that at all to the right to bear arms – a defensive precaution.

    In His Love, David

  76. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    David,
    Thank you!
    All I know about you mate is that you are an American living with a young family in Europe, Belgium I think.
    Thank you so much for you contribution to this blog both now and before.
    I so wished I had the ability to convey to my friends in the USA just how much we love them, but also how much we want them to be a part of the world community.
    They are so isolated but can not see it.
    David, you see it all from a different perspective, both from Europe & as a US citizen.
    Are we as Brits as pompas as we look or are we on to a new way of seeing the world as a multicultural society.

    Bob

  77. phpatato says:

    Please…say it to yourself next time OK. Some things are better left unsaid…friend or enemy. Especially when it’s not said in love. Look at your own country Bob. As I will mine. As Pooh said, every country in this world Has fallen short of the glory of God. Both of ours are full of faults and are sinful as well.

    An apology is in order I think! Rule #1 was broken…don’t talk politics on the internet!

    Steve and Deb and everyone else…Please accept my apology by my participation in adding to this. As an outsider to the USA, I couldn’t sit by and have these opinions pass as if they are shared by everyone not living in your country.

  78. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I am not talking politics, I am talking basics.
    Yes we have corruption in government as much as any other,
    But I am talking about society and the basic inherent corruption that is generic to it’s fabric.
    ie, Capitalism,Banks, etc.

    London is the centre of this corruption and New York has been hanging on the coat tails,
    We all need to look at who we are and where we are.

    Bob

  79. davids says:

    Bob, you are again talking in terms that have some meanings to you that are different from what the US understand – and likely to cause great offense.

    The banking problems have caused a lot of anger everywhere. It seems greatly unjust. But capitalism is a basis of the US self-identity, and to attack it will only raise the neck hairs.

  80. davids says:

    Americans only see Capitalism vs Socialism (Communism), so to vilify capitalism means to support communism, the discredited philosophy that led to dictatorship in amny countries.

    It woulld be better to leave this discussion to other blogs.

  81. davids says:

    IMHO = In my humble opinion, Steve :)

  82. phpatato says:

    Perhaps Bob you are better off starting your own blog to address this change that you feel the USA is in need of. You hijacking Mart’s site for your platform is rude in my opinion. Best ask Mart if he feels the same don’t you think?

  83. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Capitalism was invented in England in the 17th century so the offense is entirely ours.
    The Us just “capitalised” on it and are now reaping the benefits. :-)

  84. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    This all stated because Steve mentioned all the paperwork he needed to get a drivers license. I then went on to gun laws.
    I have no need to have my own blog, neither do I need to appolagise to mart.
    If people in the USA are offended when they are criticised then maybe they should look at their own constitution.

  85. davids says:

    Can we all leave it at that?

  86. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I’me not coming back here again, You in the USA deserve all you get when it comes to embassy attacks and the like.

    I hope you choke on your freedom of speech.

    Not coming here again

    Bob

  87. poohpity says:

    I am so glad that the Lord does not look on what country we were born in because they all belong to Him, we are just stewards to care for what we are given. I have never considered a nationality, social status, culture or skin color as a cause for division because I thought we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. I guess not all of us think or feel that way, I thought we usually rose above such things but as always I guess I am wrong. I am first a child of the King above the country I live in.

    I am feeling terribly hurt because I can not change where I was born nor would I want to because God placed me where I am. I will not blame anyone or what they say because I am only responsible for how I respond to them. To blame a person or persons who live in a country for how a country is responding to issues is insane and impossible.

    Bob can not ruin my day, maybe cause a tear or two to fall but speaking like that sounds like there is a lot of stuffed anger bottled up inside of him over things that no one can change but God. Something must have happened to him in regards to the USA and that is the easiest source to throw the blame on as the cause probably where a person was born who inflicted hurt to him.

  88. remarutho says:

    Dear BTA Friends —

    Though I must prepare for a meeting this evening, I will keep you all in my heart. May we each — and may we all discern the body of Christ. I agree, Pooh, there is no nationality at the cross. All humanity receives this amazing and wonderful gift by grace through faith.

    Yours,
    Maru

  89. poohpity says:

    Proverbs 23:19 NLT

  90. His Sparrow says:

    Hugs all the way around …

    with Love from…
    His Sparrow

  91. SFDBWV says:

    I had emailed Mart and had hoped he might put a stop to the madness, but that didn’t happen. I had to watch as someone I really cared about hurt himself far more than any thing I or any one else may have said to him.

    The whole train wreck spoiled the jovial mood upset the thread of conversation and hurt feelings.

    I feel almost like a death in the family.

    What have I learned from it?

    For one thing I will not let it silence me, I will continue to be me and share my life and life’s experiences, I will give my opinions hopefully with some class and always with the feelings of others forefront in my mind.

    I will look foreword to reading all of your thoughts as well and feeling welcomed into your world.

    I will not let evil defeat me or rob me of this fellowship.

    I hope Bob changes his mind and stays with us.

    What was the topic about anyway?

    Steve

  92. SFDBWV says:

    Ok I am looking at the comparisons between Adam and Jesus.

    Now if we are only talking about Adam the first human on earth, what do we know about Him?

    Ok we know he was formed out of the elements of the earth and became alive with the breath of God.

    We know he had the job of naming all of the creatures God had created.

    Though it is not recorded that he ever complained, we understand that God knew Adam needed someone like himself to keep him company and help by sharing life with him.

    We know that he disobeyed God and that he blamed it on Eve.

    We know he was banished from the Garden of Eden and then had to fend for himself amidst thorns and thistles.

    We know he fathered children.

    We know he died.

    Ok what then do we know about Jesus (John 21: 25).

    His earthly body was also passed along from Adam as being formed from the elements of the earth.
    He was fathered in essence by His own power.

    He was born in order to restore all that was lost by Adams disobedience.

    He exhibited the nature and power of God.

    He gave us commandments and examples of how to live.

    He allowed Himself to be sacrificed for Adams sin.

    He defeated death as He began a human life, by His own power.

    What do these two men have in common?

    They are both creations of God and so by virtue precious in the sight of God.

    Lots of rain this morning.

    Steve

  93. cherielyn says:

    Matthew 5:43,44,45,46,47,48(KJV)

    Focusing on verse 44.

  94. cherielyn says:

    What happened to KJV version? Verse 4 is abbreviated in the ESV.

    Trying again!

    Matthew:5:43-48(KJV)

  95. cherielyn says:

    One more time: Matthew 5:43-48(KJV)

    Sorry!

  96. fadingman says:

    As far as the Adam and Eve/Christ and the Church type, I think marriage was intended to be a type or picture of the relationship God want’s with us. It’s not that Christ and the Church is a picture of marriage, but marriage is a picture of Christ and the Church.

    It’s also interesting to me that God didn’t think it good for Adam to be alone, so He made Eve to be Adam’s ‘helpmate’. Likewise, Jesus didn’t think it good for us to be alone, so He gave us the Holy Spirit to be our Helper. It’s both similar and different, because while the help was *for* the First Adam, now the help is *from* the Last Adam.

  97. Mart De Haan says:

    Let’s see if we can build on what has happened in the above string of comments.

    We’ve all been part of discussions that lead to disagreements that at some point get out of hand.

    The issue isn’t a matter of who’s right or wrong in their facts.

    Like, Steve, I hate to lose a friend, let alone someone who has been so transparent in their own walk and, out of their own pain, so accepting and encouraging of others.

    As we’ve recently seen, sometimes those in control of access need to step in and remove someone from the game. In the above instance that’s not what’s needed.

    We have a history not only together, but in Christ.

  98. phpatato says:

    I woke up feeling like the weather. Heavy rain and dreary outside; heavy heart and sad inside. I’ve spent the last several minutes reviewing what happened yesterday.

    To all of you, please forgive me for my part in this. My intentions were honest. To Bob, please forgive me for volleying back. I should have stayed quiet as it was none of my business. I just aggravated the situation. To Mart, I’m so sorry. Your site does not deserve the disrespect it was given.

  99. SFDBWV says:

    Funny thing I notice Cherielyn watching “The Great American Bible Challenge” on GSN is that the older people who are used to the King James Version of the Bible are often confused by some of the quote clues given in the game.

    The sad thing in the matter concerning the string of insults directed at us are that they weren’t from a confessed enemy, but rather from someone who professed to be our friend.

    I know the problem and I wish none of it had happened, but it did and the one great lesson we can all learn is the creative power speaking has, it can create blessings or cursings and can not be taken back once said.

    Another example of how like God we are, as He spoke all of everything into existence by what He said.

    Steve

  100. poohpity says:

    To me this would be an example of what causes grief to the Holy Spirit Steve spoke of in Eph 4:30,31,32 NLT. Sort of like what Adam did as he hid from God, not saying we are God, but we want fellowship with Bob and he walked away from us. I love him and pray he will find it in his heart to come back because we will be here with open arms ready to receive him back.

  101. poohpity says:

    I would also like to apologize for fanning the flame of anger. Forgive me.

  102. foreverblessed says:

    I feel saddened what has happened, Bob has something to say, but it was way too rude. We can look at Jesus, He not only forgives when we repent, but He fixes everything that we have messed up. He does it for me and so I should do this to others.
    Adam messed it up for the whole of mankind, Jesus fixes all the mess of the whole mankind, (not at once).

  103. kingdomkid7 says:

    Please come back, Bob.

  104. poohpity says:

    Mart, I think that only by knowing and believing in the Son of God that is what brings a fullness and richness to the OT. I have never really spoken to any that only believe in the OT and think that the Messiah/Christ is yet to come so I do not know what their beliefs are like and how that effects their everyday life. What do they do since the practices of sacrifices is no longer accepted? If they believe in the first five books or the whole OT how are their sins atoned for?

    I can not even imagine what reading the OT would be like without Jesus.

  105. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I am very sorry for my outburst yesterday. Words that are throw away here obviously mean more to you.
    Like Toilet & Rest Room, we find it so hard to comprehend how you find the word Toilet difficult to deal with.
    I live in a very Liberal Society and find the Strict Fundamentalist christian ways of the USA incomprehensible.
    I am Pro Choice, because God gave us free will and a mind to live our lives as we wan’t. It may not be right in God’s eyes but who are we to dictate to others.
    I am anti Gun, as you are all now aware, and cannot see how right minded christian thinking people can even hold such a concept in their heads as to carry weapons. We have banned Fox hunting here and blood sports, so even the thought of you lot hunting, let alone drive by shootings, is abhorrent.
    You see there is division between us and in the thinking here in my country to yours, so it is best I do not comment here again. There is more I could talk about, but as was said last night, I will leave it for some other blog that is more apt to my opinions.

    Your friend always!

    Bob

  106. davids says:

    Steve, brother, there was only one thing you wrote that I thought was inapropriate: the comment about guns and Obama. I try not to bring politics into this blog, and as the election approaches, I think it will ne better if we all do the same.

  107. davids says:

    Fadingman, you wrote, “It’s not that Christ and the Church is a picture of marriage, but marriage is a picture of Christ and the Church.”

    This a useful point to remember about Types. They can point to God. It is a one way relationship, and should not be taken as an equation. This makes them different from an analogy.

  108. His Sparrow says:

    Bob…
    please…
    I don’t even know what “fundamentalist” – “christian ways” means.

    Love
    His Sparrow

  109. kingdomkid7 says:

    Welcome back, Bob. ;-).

  110. poohpity says:

    Maybe liberal in some areas but not so much in others. I do not know what a fundamentalist Christian is either but if he says we are we must be. Right??

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