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Israel Trip After Thoughts

Got back yesterday from a region that is as diverse and confusing as this donkey and rider on the rooftop of the Old City of Jerusalem– surrounded by antennas and satellite dishes.

The lingering jet lag that will probably shadow us for a week, has given me a chance, over night, to reflect not only on our last couple of days but also on the significance of what we are seeing in our lifetime.

While some regard the rebirth of Israel as nothing more than a socio-political coincidence, I’m more convinced than ever that what we are seeing is setting the stage for what Jesus and the prophets predicted for the end of the age.

At the same time, it seems just as important for us not to presume either that Christ will or will not return in our lifetime… and not to view either the Jewish people, or their Palestinian neighbors, as our enemies.

Even though many of us sense that we have spiritual roots, a natural love, and an indebtedness to the historic nation of Israel, (Romans 9:1-5), our calling and mission is to love people on all sides of the present stalemate in the Middle East.

Also seems to me that it is unbecoming for us to act as if Israel’s safety depends on America’s political and military support. From Israel’s ancient past, it is clear that God will not share any credit for either the rise, demise, or restoration of his “chosen people.”

He allowed foreign nations to invade and plunder Israel because of his people’s unfaithfulness– before judging those same nations for their own sins. In a similar way he could allow other nations to help Israel, before judging those same nations for the extent that they didn’t see the God and Protector of Israel as their own ultimate source of security.

We can be sure that even if God used, in 1947, a group of post-WW2 nations to partition land for Jewish and Palestinian people, the West will not end up with credit for the birth or preservation of Israel.

Got the quotes of Scripture (Isaiah 35:1; Jeremiah 31:8) and pictures of Israel’s return from Independence Hall in Tel Aviv where Israel’s modern Declaration of Independence was signed on May 14, 1948. Ironically much of the Zionist vision behind the return of Jewish people to the land has been without regard for the spiritual history of Israel. A disproportionately high number of Jewish people remain agnostic, or even atheistic by admission.

Yet in Ezekiel’s vision of the valley of dry bones that come alive, the prophet foresaw, 600 years before Christ, a final return to their land and a future resurrection of the nation of Israel-that would begin without spiritual life (Ezekiel 37).

The modern leaders of Israel could not have orchestrated the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947 by a Bedouin shepherd on the western shore of the Dead Sea.

At the very time in which the modern state of Israel was being reborn the greatest archeological find of the 20th century produced ancient copies of the Jewish Scriptures that are 1000 years older than previously found manuscripts. One of those manuscripts was The Great Isaiah Scroll which is probably the most Messianic of the prophets.

Since the Dead Sea Scrolls are now regarded as a priceless national treasure, the heavily vaulted Shrine of the Book, on the grounds of the Israel Museum, was built to house them. A copy of the Isaiah scroll is on display in this unusual shaped building that is designed to look like a top of one of the clay jars in which the scrolls were preserved.

Even though Israel was reborn by people who were looking for a homeland more than the God of the Old Testament, there is now a substantial observant community in Israel that prays every day for the coming of Messiah. Some of the most orthodox of the religious community don’t even recognize the validity of the state of Israel. They regard the current government with contempt and believe that Israel’s rebirth depends entirely on the coming of her Messianic King of kings.

Other observant worshipers, however, believe they are seeing the hand of God in the restoration of their homeland.

Ever since the Western Wall areas was captured by Israel from Jordan in the 1967 war many have come here to pray for the peace of Israel and for the Messianic Age.

The Western Wall is actually a retaining wall for the plaza above which once held Israel’s temple.

Because the plaza area has been occupied by the Dome of the Rock Shrine (since the 7th century AD) and the looming Al Aksa Mosque, the chief rabbis strictly forbid Jewish people from setting foot on what they call the Temple Mount Plaza.

So Jewish worshipers come to the Western Wall area which allows them the closest proximity to where their ancient temple stood. Some wrap black leather boxes containing Hebrew Scriptures on their arm and forehead. Others rock back and forth as they pray or read, so as to involve their whole, body, soul, and spirit.

Just inside an arch on the north end of the wall there is a synagogue where large, richly colored cabinets (“arks” containing the Torah Scrolls) are lined up along the huge retaining wall rocks. There also the observant read and pray for blessing, and for the coming of the King of kings.

Interestingly, within a few yards of the area of prayer, huge rocks have been excavated and allowed to lie as they fell from the Temple Area when the Romans sacked Jerusalem in 70 AD. This happened 40 years after Jesus’ prediction that the temple would be destroyed without one rock being left on the other (Matt 24:1-2).

Am convinced that these rocks, along with the remaining retaining wall of the Western Wall plaza, tell not just the story of the Jewish people but ours’ as well. From the beginning, the God of Abraham made it clear that he was calling one man and his descendants to be a blessing to all the nations of the world.

Down through history, followers of the Bible, both Jewish and Gentile, have often regarded our faith as if it were given to us only for ourselves. As a result we have unintentionally insulted those who are lost– by leaving the impression that they are sinners to be avoided and condemned rather than loved in the name and spirit of our Lord.

The Talmud shows how some of the people of Israel developed an attitude of seeing non-Jewish people as “unclean” and even as “subhuman/dogs.” Instead of seeing the sins of the gentiles as what need to be regarded as dangerous and condemned, more than a few teachers of Israel regarded the gentile people themselves as “unclean” things to be avoided.

Bet we’d probably be stunned to know how many of our own neighbors believe that is exactly how followers of Jesus make them feel.

So, on our last couple of days our crew drove to Jaffa (a southern suburb of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem’s ancient port city of Joppa) to tell our own story, and the story of the Jewish people-in the big fish story of Jonah. It was here from the harbor that is now occupied by the modern port city of Jaffa, that Jonah caught a ship in the opposite direction– when God told him that he wanted him to speak in his behalf to the enemy city of Nineveh (today in the region of Basra/Iraq).

By the way, the first picture of the goggled fish I found in the window of a vacant store in Tel Aviv. Am guessing it might have been a diving shop (or maybe an optometrist ??:-). The second is a sculpture in memory of Jonah down near Jaffa’s waterfront. My guess is that the first is probably more like what Jonah had to deal with…

What I find so amazing is that Jonah’s story ends without closure. After Jonah finally ends up in Nineveh, only to see the whole city repent and believe in the God who sent him, Jonah is furious. He’s angry at God for showing mercy to the enemies of Israel, even though Jonah had been happy to receive that same mercy in the belly of the fish. Then his beef is with God for sending a worm to kill the shade plant which had given him shelter from the hot Middle East sun.

So God says, “”You have had pity on the plant for which you have not labored, nor made it grow, which came up in a night and perished in a night. “And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left — and much livestock?”

At that point we are told nothing of Jonah’s response. Did he have a change of heart? Did he remain angry with God? We’re not told… maybe so that we won’t focus on Jonah and realize that the real issue of this story is now for us to ask…to what extent are we, or our generation, like Jonah? To what extent am I sulking and mad at God because his plans are bigger than my own comfort? That’s the question I left Israel with this time…

And, by the way, I also came home with renewed and deepened appreciation for our Day of Discovery team who worked so hard with Dr. Michael Rydelnik for a week before my arrival-before doing it for another week after my arrival. (Our guide Roni who once again helped us so much is on the left).

Together, they worked so hard, lugging so much heavy equipment, and showing so much patience with those of us who sometimes required many “takes” to say what we meant :-)…


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91 Responses to “Israel Trip After Thoughts”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    Welcome home Mart and DOD team. Your report so far, is rich with renewed awareness of who we are and where we are going.
    Tho you have been greatly missed, your taking us along has been a wonderful trip for me. I tried to keep up by reading the Israeli news daily and learned many things myself.
    When will the Series air?

    Steve

  2. Mart De Haan says:

    Thanks, Steve, it’s good to be back! I appreciated the interesting info you posted while we were on the road. I’ll have to check on air-dates for these programs. Am guessing we are 6 months out.

  3. SFDBWV says:

    I just watched a news video story about the renewed intrest of rebuilding the Temple, and the return of sacrifice’s for Passover.
    It is sometimes like watching events come to life.

    They are looking for Messiah, still. How frustrating for me to not be able to show them Messiah has already come. Yet Messiah stood before them in person and was not recognized. God’s will I guess.

    6 months seems like a lifetime away right now but time has a way of passing very quickly for us anymore.

  4. carlj says:

    Something I have found interesting is the growing interest in Christians to become part of a Messianic church and/or to observe the Jewish Feasts and even the Sabbath. Those I have talked to have commented that observing the Feasts, and some the Sabbath, added to their worship experience. Another person told me that by not observing the Feasts we are possibly missing a blessing from God. My response to them was that we have already received the blessing from God in the form of Jesus Christ and as a result we are now the blessing to a lost world.

    I have tried to understand the motivation for observing the Feasts. I have read back through Galations and Colossians for understanding but have not found it yet. The only things I can come to is that perhaps there are some who need something tangible to focus on to aid their worship experience.

  5. Mart De Haan says:

    carlj,
    That’s one of the subjects of a program that we recorded with Michael Rydelnik, Meno Kalisher, and Avner Bosky. All three men have Jewish roots and somewhat different takes on the value of observing some of the Jewish/Old Testament culture you referred to. All, however, agreed that these are “roots” and “shadows” of Jesus and are of value to the extent that they enrich our appreciation of the way Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets. They also acknowledged that followers of Jesus differ widely on the value of “keeping” the feasts of Israel, and that we need to recognize one anothers freedom in such matters.

  6. BruceC says:

    Mart,

    Looking foward to the finished product. Your insight is great. I have always been in favor of supporting Israel, but I have no illusions of the USA being her protector. It has and always shall be God. Yes, the Bible is unfolding before our eyes and in the Word we read how God will judge the nations; including ours. I shake my head in sadness when I think of “One Nation Under God” and then ponder what we do and what we have become. It also amazes me how secular many in Israel are in light of all that has happened and fail to give the Lord credit.

  7. mtman says:

    I too welcome you home and want to thank you for bringing us the photos and comments from Israel. To show us a part of the world little of know about.
    Perhaps the reason we think the USA is the protector of Israel is because we have such a powerful military force and the economic might to influence the world. Not to mention I googled Israel News after reading Steves posts and one of the articles on there told about how Israel and the US coordinate when Israel makes a strike and how we exchange intelligence. If you haven’t read that publication Steve is onto something worthwhile there. Thanks Steve!!! We also sell Israel arms and supplies and train them. That gave me the opinion we would back them what ever the need.
    Of course Mart is right about who is really in control. God has made that clear for sure.
    Where I have a hard time loving is the Palestinian terrorists that fire rockets into Israel not knowing what they will hit or who. Or blow themselves up to simply kill other people. Children and civilians are killed to make what point? Maybe you can tell me how you can love someone like that especially when they are the party in charge of a country/state. Their hatred is so great it doesn’t seem that love or anything else will ever change them. I don’t understand how anyone can love such a people. I don’t hate them but they sure are unlovable in my mind. How do you love someone as Christ taught us to, when they only want to kill and injure inocents? It is beyond me to do that.

  8. carlj says:

    I just read an article that gave a concise history of Israel up to the present time. After reading the article the first thought that came to my mind was if anyone is looking for proof that God exists, Israel is the proof. God revealed Himself through Israel and continues to reveal Himself.

  9. poohpity says:

    As mentioned earlier, whoops, welcome home Mart. I really enjoy reading everything you experience with the gentleness and thoughtfulness of a person who obviously loves the Lord. When I watch DOD and listen to you talk I sort of use that as a reference when you blog although I know you may have to have many takes to get out the right words. LOL It all comes out well anyway. Hey do you ever get frustrated or loose your cool? Just wondering. :)

    It would be nice to celebrate the Jewish feasts and milestones of their history which is also ours because we are adopted into that family. To take time away from the everyday grind to focus on the Lord and what He has done, now how good would that be. Obviously we worship the almighty buck more.

  10. mtman says:

    “At the same time, it seems just as important for followers of Christ to not view either the Jewish people, or their Palestinian neighbors, as our enemies.”
    I think my overly long comment above meant that if these Palestinian people are trying to kill our long time friends and allies how can you not consider them enemies? How can you love people who want to destroy or control through terror? I can’t do it but maybe some have a better capacity for love than I.

  11. Laurielee says:

    I’m thinking that it’s easier to say we love our enemies when it’s a vague or ambiguous picture, but when the focus is sharpened into a clear, specific enemy that causes great harm, pain, and suffering, it’s more easily said than done. My daughter recently went to an event where she was seated at a table with a young Jewish man who had volunteered to do medical work in Gaza. What a statement of loving your enemies!

  12. poohpity says:

    I believe mtman that is the place where our faith is tested. To realize it is for every human being that Christ died. Those which may be the hardest to love are the ones that need it the most. It is satan that we are fighting against and he uses human beings to achieve the means of evil. If we join in the lack of love for those who are so unlovable in our minds what does that say about what we believe. It is in the strength of the Holy Spirit that we love not in or of ourselves so that all Glory will belong to the God of all creation.

    Steve let Matthew know I have joined him in the Sunroom and to grant me to be his friend.

  13. pegramsdell says:

    Welcome back Mart. Glad you made it back safe and sound and your whole crew. Sorry to hear how dry it is there. It’s been real dry here in ocala, but now we are finally getting much needed rain. Praise Jesus!

  14. Rick123 says:

    Psa 132:13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired [it] for his habitation.

    132:14 This [is] my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

    The Jerusalem in Israel will be the center(throne) of the universe, for it will be the resting place of the Most High and the resting place of his Son-Jesus on earth forever.

    When the thousand years reign of Christ on earth are finished, than will the holy city, new Jerusalem, come down from God out of heaven to Jerusalem on earth forever.

    Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.

    21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

    21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

    21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.

    21:24 And the nations<(On Earth) of them which are saved<(By Jesus) shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

    Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God(The Father) and of the Lamb.(Jesus)

    22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.(Of the earth)

  15. poohpity says:

    Rick123,

    With the scripture you posted how will that effect how you respond to others?

  16. Mart De Haan says:

    mtman, I appreciate your honesty. Let me take a shot at an answer and count on others to improve it.

    I think love means hating unnecessary violence wherever it is happening– and supporting all efforts to stop unnecessary killing on all sides. Love will not indulge the evil of anyone.

    Love for both sides also means giving both populations the consideration we would want for ourselves (i.e. to not assume that all Palestinians or Jewish people support all of the actions of their leaders, any more than we would want internationals to think that we support the unwise and unjust policies or actions of our own country.)

  17. Mart De Haan says:

    Poohpity, oh yes!!! :-)… A couple of times on this trip I tried for dozens of times to get the words out… Once things start going down hill– it’s hard to stop the slide :-)….

    On one segment I mindlessly kept saying “Job” instead of “Jonah”… a first grader could have done better. But our team is so patient…

  18. mtman says:

    Mart: Thank you for your explanation. I think it has lots of merit and I will certainly think on it. Thank you again for your concise and clear reply.
    I know all Palestinian’s are not terriorists but clearly some are and they blend right in. There are a lot of inocents killed on both sides. Heart breaking.

  19. Robert says:

    Mtman…you really brought up a poser there. Christ had the capacity to say “Forgive them, Lord. They know not what they do” as he neared death and that may just have been the embodiment of everything he sought to teach us in his brief sojourn among us. This was the lesson of true love and forgiveness He needed us to learn.

    But, WE struggle with it in ways He did not. After all, he is Christ and we are sinners, we may say, and oft-times use that as a harbour in which to justify our inability (unwillingness) to love or forgive that which we see as unjust.

    I’m not sure where I’m going with this, Mtman but I hear you on this question of loving that which we revile. It is probably the most difficult conundrum Christians, or humans for that matter, have to deal with.

    You really got me thinking with that one….

  20. Robert says:

    OK…so I’m back again.
    I do some of my best thinking in the shower, oddly enough.

    It occurred to me that we need to take history into account as well when we look at mans inhumanity to man and his ability or inability to practice to the lessons of love and forgiveness that Christ taught us.

    In antiguity, the Jews persecuted the Christians.
    Then, if that wasn’t bad enough the Romans weighed in and roughed up both the Jews AND the Christians.
    Then, a little later on, the Christians took out their angst against the Muslims in that horrible little thing we called the Crusades and NOW, the Muslims and the Jewish state are going at it again.

    This is history.
    This is humanity.

    It does not surprise me to hear that it is hard to love someone who kills women and children. I feel it too and there is not one among us, I suspect, who does not.

    This is a hard job that Christ has tasked us with. I look at history and see evidence of our persistent inability to apply the simple lesson that He left us.

    Why?

    Mart, is it truly possible for humanity or even one person to abandon these feelings 100% as Christ would have us do or is it more of a Holy Grail that lays just beyond our grasp?

    Both I and history appear to struggle with this but let’s never give up trying.

    I’d really love to hear some comments on this. I really would because I think through this philosophical/religious paradox often and never really seem to advance my track position.

  21. poohpity says:

    mtman,

    I want you to know the fight of trying to love even with the help of the Holy Spirit is one of those things that I have not been able to overcome much to my chagrin. I think that is why when Jesus responded to how many times do we forgive someone for the same offense in the same day He said, “Seventy times seven”. I think that is the right amount. So in a day when I get agitated with everyone and myself I guess I will be walking around and the only thing I will be saying is “will you forgive me” or forgiving. It is so easy to say but hard to do. I hope I did not give the impression that I have mastered it because I am still in process and have not really mastered anything. I think that may be the point.

  22. Robert says:

    But this is my point though.
    In your own words, you confess it.
    I confess it.
    mtman confesses it.
    HISTORY CONFESSES IT!!!!

    Where do we find the strength and wisdom that enables us to achieve that which Christ asks of us while all the while, the wolves pull us down? Nature and our own history pull us down.

    Gods gift of free will allows us to pull ourselves down. Almost acts as an enabler.

    Please don’t misunderstand me. I am no nay-sayer. I love Christ with all my heart but I am human and instinctively do that which Christ would have me not do (not forgive that which I perceive to be reprehensible) b/c of my God-given desire to understand……another paradox!

    I question why people suffer from starvation and torture.
    I question why wars happen.
    I question disease and Alzheimer’s and leukemia.
    I question rape, mental illness, poverty and all those things that make us feel awful inside out of our compassion for those that either cannot help themselves or cannot protect themselves.

    Those things that make us ask the uncomfortable questions.
    I question a lot.

    …and so Christ offers no answers to this because there are none. It is His divine will that these things happen and yet we are expected to love the people who commit these acts unconditionally. I don’t speak of Muslims or Christians or Jews in particular b/c we’re all historically capable of being awful to one another regardless.

    Do you not see how painfully difficult this can be? And without justification for mans inhumanity to man we are left with the fragile and esoteric concept of faith to guide us through these feelings.

    I think about this a lot and it’s a toughy. My faith is strong but I’m gonna have a lot of questions when I finally meet Christ.

  23. Robert says:

    I re-read my last post.
    I may have mis-spoken.

    I am certain that Christ offers answers to these questions.
    I just have not found them yet.
    I’m certain I will.
    I’m certain we all will.
    I was just thinking out loud.

  24. gr8grannyjacobs says:

    I am thinking of Paul as he was before he had his Damascus encounter.He was totally convinced he was doing right by persecuting the Christians and then he heard the gospel as he watched Stephen die. This is how I understand both sides of the Palestinian and Israeli conflict.Both sides are convinced they are right but neither side has accepted Christ so for me the answer is to keep spreading the gospel. The only message that will change mans heart. I don’t think God takes sides He takes hearts. Would we not have looked at Paul as a terrorist and hated him and yet God changed him completely. Keep loving keep praying keep spreading the Word.

    It is never in my own strength that I can love others it is only in God’s strength.He does keep giving me understanding of Himself and His great love for me which enables me to love others regardless of their actions. There are times I have to ask God to help me as I do get sidetracked but learning as I go. Just thoughts………….

    Welcome home Mart.

  25. plumbape says:

    Mart welcome back
    mtman welcome also and Robert also we were missing you while mtman was absent a few days. We have a full house and already discussing one of the most complicated issues of the Bible and life itself. Love
    If hating your brother, in the Kingdom of God, is the exact same thing as commiting murder. Then I think we as humans can only hope to achieve loving our enemy by not hating them. It is different degrees or ways to love. “Forgive them for they know not” These people that do evil to that level is simply because they know not the Love of Jesus Christ.
    Without that one is doomed, with it you have everything!

  26. poohpity says:

    Robert,

    I do not believe it is God’s divine will that all that bad stuff happens. His divine will was for us to have perfect, unblemished, unstained and pure fellowship with Him however He gave us free will. We have determined that we know better than God for all the decisions in our life including what would be best for us and others, obviously we had no clue. That decision allowed for all the unlovely things into the world.

    You seem to be very intelligent using words that I have to google to understand, lol. In your life do you base your decisions and actions on what would be beneficial for all because every action involves a reaction. We can only see the path in front of us and can not see how something may influence someone else but they are all wrapped together. Only God can see and I believe with all my heart He did not intend for things to be as they are but in it all He is the only good that holds things together or we would have destroyed it all by now.

    At times we need to climb back into the shower and consider what is good in this life rather than what is messed up. I do not know about you but the more I look at way things are as they are I have to consider my behavior everyday as I would love to be perfect and do His will but find my will always popping in. I do not think very lovingly.

  27. poohpity says:

    Another thought– if you and I were the only people alive we would still mess things up that is our history since the beginning of time. Or if just one of us lived we would still mess it up so it is not the will of God or His divine purpose for those things you mentioned that are wrong with this world. It is because we live.

  28. daisymarygoldr says:

    Glad you all had a successful trip and made it safely back home! Thanks for the funny pictures of a confused donkey and a goggled fishy…and also for some very delectable afterthoughts… they are triggering profuse thoughts that are different and its practically impossible to convey on this blog all the churning of my mind. Will try and keep it minimal…

    Dog… Jesus Himself identified with His cultural upbringing when He refers to the Syrophoenician/Canaanite woman as a dog. His disciples also had a hard time tolerating her presence. Peter struggled with this for quite some time…until he was told not to consider something unclean if God has made it clean. After hearing it three times, Peter obeyed the Holy Spirit “to go with them and not to worry that they were Gentiles” (Acts 11:12)

    Jesus “was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel” but He was not merely to remain as the glory of His people Israel. He was the Light that revealed God to all the nations and it is in Him salvation extends beyond Israel for all people. Jonah was the sign… that the good news of God’s love, mercy, compassion and grace is not just for the Jews but for all people and that He desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim2:3-4). Thus, the prophetic story of Jonah was fulfilled in Jesus.

    According to God’s predetermined purpose, though the first Christian converts were Jews, today they rank the least among followers of Christ as Christianity steadily spread to all the nations of the world!

  29. daisymarygoldr says:

    You are right, Jonah disobeyed when God asked him to preach against the wickedness of Nineveh… because he did not want his enemies to repent and be saved. After a thorough lesson within the fish’s belly, God sent him back again on his mission to deliver the message… “Forty days from now Nineveh will be destroyed!”

    This scare-tactic might have stunned Jonah’s Ninevite neighbors but the spit-polished words of their Hebrew enemy did not insult and prevent them from believing God’s word. The message cut through the hearts of every Ninevite— king, commoner and cattle! They repented and God relented… thus Nineveh was saved from divine wrath. The merciful God gave wicked Nineveh a chance to repent and be saved.

    The Church is commissioned to proclaim God’s eternal truth— the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ. Sin is going to be judged and the wicked world is going to be destroyed. We are all sinners saved by grace and not the enemy if we speak the truth. The real enemy never wants people to hear the truth, lest they repent and be saved.

    Instead of conveying the pure truth, we get all creative with our man-made outreach efforts involving Good Samaritan programs of relief to the poor and needy… to unintentionally mask the truth. So, under the influence of Satan’s deception we also tend to behave like Jonah and fail to deliver God’s message to the world.

    Thankfully, God never fails and His love for His own created beings is eternal. He never gives up… neither on sinners nor on disobedient Jonahs. He is merciful and takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their wicked ways and live.

    If we love our neighbors as ourselves and have compassion for souls facing eternal judgment and death, we will readily preach the Word not just in Israel but to all the ends of this earth … even if it requires God to lead us through the uncomfortable belly of a smelly fish! Just my thoughts…

  30. Robert says:

    poohpity.

    Your post from 10:24 was thought provoking.

    If I distill it down, then Gods ‘decision’ to grant free will and Gods lesson of love thy neighbor are in basic conflict within the hearts of mankind when confronted with adversity. It’s kind of odd to see 2 of Gods gifts at odds like this, wouldn’t you say? Which then almost makes us extend the thought that free-will may not have been entirely His doing but rather Satan’s gauntlet of challenge thrown down that God merely accepted for us. (I’m thinking serpent in the garden with Adam and Eve – tree of wisdom, etc)

    It is as though He gave us life, showed us right from wrong and ALSO, for added measure, permitted the ability to mess it up for ourselves and disappoint Him in the process thereby providing the very divining rod needed to separate us at judgment day. If we subscribe to the parable, did Adam and Eve not fall into this same trap?

    But, you see, it’s not the Arab/Isaraeli conflict I weep over. They’re adults with weapons. They know very well the consequences of their actions both today and through history. It’s the unpopular conflicts I think about that go on without as much media sensationalism. The Genocide in Darfur, Myanmar,Zimbabwe, concentration camps in North Korea. All sterling examples not of war, per se, but of mans unabated capacity to be inhumane. People suffering at the hands of others and their only crime is being alive. That’s what worries me.

    That’s just sad and perhaps it’s because of these truths that loving thy neighbor is as difficult as it is at times.

    Is this what we are being asked to do: bear witness to all this and pray for forgiveness for the aggressor in the way Christ did on the cross? Well, the answer is Yes obviously but it’s a pretty tall order, I’m thinking. Especially when our “gift” (or maybe yoke) of free-will kicks in again

    I liked your last paragraph, though, in which you say “At times we need to climb back into the shower and consider what is good in this life rather than what is messed up.”

    There is value and wisdom in those words and all the thoughts they provoke. I’m going to mull them over awhile. Thanks

  31. rafcosford says:

    I found this to be a very interesting article. I often pray that the Jewish nation will have the scales taken from their eyes, & that they would see that their Messiah has already visited & is waiting for them to recognise Him. I think that the pressures of the modern way of life is getting in the way of our spiritual life. We are overwhelmed with bad news, & forget HE is in charge. Nothing can happen that HE doesn’t allow. I worry quite a bit about things that don’t happen, & forget that the GOD who loves me has brought me this far despite my choices in my 63 yrs. I am still standing through HIS grace & love.
    May our LORD continue to bless & guide you.

  32. pegramsdell says:

    As a parent, I think the greatest pleasure I have in my children is when they love their neighbor. They are adults now and they can do what they want without my permission now. They are free of my authority in that way, and although they will and often (do) dissappoint me with some of their choices, I want them to love the Lord with all their heart, soul and body…and love their neighbor.
    Just because we have free will doesn’t mean we can’t love our neighbor also. It’s called discipline. Not always easy, but so rewarding. After all we were created for His pleasure and for His pleasure we were created.
    And yes, there is still good to dwell on. Good memories and happy times to remember and to come. It helps…

  33. BruceC says:

    daisymarygoldr,

    I don’t think “Good Samaritan” programs intentionally or unintentionally mask the truth. It is easy to say that you love someone. But proving or showing it? So it is with us. We can say that we love them and that God loves them; but how do we prove it to them without showing that love? If love is just spoken (in many cases) and not proven; it more or less can sound like empty words to those who are lost or hurting.

  34. mtman says:

    As I stated earlier I have a problem with those who only want to kill inocents for “their cause” because they believe they alone are on God’s side. Mart’s response was helpful and all those subsequent. Daisy your response was priceless and I guess I just can’t get to that point yet. As I ponder these I still end up where I started. Robert I tend to be concerned with exactly those points you have made and sometimes I don’t feel very Christian with them. I’d like to send you back to the shower to think this through and tell me an answer I can grasp.
    My hope is that I could love unconditionally just like our dogs demonstrate in their love for us. Having said that I recall there are times that they do not like some people. They instinctly are not friendly with an occasional person. I’m sure we have those instincts too but they are buried within our sophistication somewhere.
    In addition to not being able to love those who kill by blowing themselves simply to kill inocent people just because the are Jew, Christian, White, Black, Liberal, Conservative (and the list goes on) how do we show our love to such miserable people? Maybe 2 Tim. 3 1-7, has some clues, at least for me. I think Mart is right when he says the last days are near at hand. Paul says who to avoid in the last days in Timothy. I take this as excellent instruction for those people who should be avoided. That however puts them at arms length and brings up my origional question how do you love them when you avoid them? I don’t know how to do that especially when they hate us (and anyone not like themselves) so much. Maybe avoiding them is a form of love, and maybe we can’t love them and have to leave that to God Himself. I simply don’t know but what I do know is when I try to figure this out it is like chasing my tail. I end up back where I started and don’t have any conclusions. I also know that I won’t be giving a terrorist a hug any time soon.
    All the above posts are helpful and thought provoking and how I wish I could love those who do evil like some have expressed. I’m not convinced loving the person but hating the sin is applicable to those who truly seek evil. But then isn’t arm’s length and avoidance much like pointing a invisible .45 gun at them and just another form of murder too? See what I mean about chasing my tail…

  35. SFDBWV says:

    Robert I have struggled with answering your comments this morning. As well as mtman’s.

    Frustration with seeing injustice, cruelty, inane bad behavior is not new. The writers of our scripture wrote about it all the time. Job complained about it, Soloman wrote about it as a mystery. We observe it with wonder as to why God continues to allow it.

    I too, wonder when all of this will end and a sinless world return to us.

    It is sin in all its ugliness that brought suicide bombers into the world.

    There is no hope for the world, except the hope that Jesus Christ offers. Changed and reborn hearts are the only answer. Awaiting His return.

    Today I watched a series of pictures of the President of the United States, bowing before a Saudi King. I am as offended by his action as I am at all the ugliness of world politics. I can see the direction my beloved country has taken and am very saddened as I am sure many were in the Nation of Israel every time it’s kings took them down the road to destruction.

    I am once again reminded that I can only be accountable for my actions, not the actions of others. So I place myself into the hands of God and trust Him.

    As I read the instructions Jesus gave to His followers, I see that it is nearly impossible to achieve most of them. But I am able to strive toward accomplishing them. God sees my heart and knows my intentions.

    I pray for peace in my heart. Peace that surpasses understanding.

  36. poohpity says:

    I always find it helpful to realize that we are taught how to respond to events. I do not believe that free will and love are at odds I believe they complement each other. Without free will we do not have the choice to love. Hopefully from birth we are taught we have many choices in life to make, we can harm or heal. In the countries that have terrorists they are taught or brainwashed that there is no other way to respond to their circumstances but with evil.

    On one hand in some circumstances I was taught as a child to get back at those who have mistreated me and other times it was dependent on who the person is as to whether to forgive or get even. I watched and saw that I would rather forgive although it is a process and is not easy.

    When I was older I was given tools from reading the bible to make a decision to handle events in different ways but if I was never taught any different I would not think there was any other way. I have the ability because of free will and knowledge to make different choices. I have the choice to act or react to any given situation. It would be nice if I always made the best decisions to benefit someone but I do not always make the right choices. That is how I have come to understand that others are in the same boat and if I judge them then it is really my own judgment that sits in the balance.

    People are not really taught they have a choice or free will some are disciplined that there is only one way to solve a problem. If God were are a control freak we could all be puppets on a string and HE could make us do what HE wanted us to do but HE gave us a brain. If some choose to use it or not that depends on whether they were taught to do so. Every little thing can be used for evil or good but we have a choice as to which path we take and that is the wonderful thing about free will we can choose LOVE.

  37. jdanhuff says:

    ..our calling and mission is to love people on all sides of the present stalemate in the Middle East. “Amen” to your philosophy, my brother, Mart. It is always a thrill to discover a ‘kindred spirt’. Tradition holds that Islamic peoples trace their origin back to Ishmael, son of Abraham through Haggar-the bond servant; and Paul told us in the Roman letter that Abraham is the “father of us all”; Jew and Gentile as well as the Muslim. We are- therefore- all brothers. This view does’nt negate Christ as our redemer, for were ot not for the ministry of Jesus we would be without hope and God in this life. I pray more people would understand these truths.

  38. Laurielee says:

    I’m not sure that this dilemma fits here or not…I try, with Jesus’ help, to love all people. I would never knowingly do anything to hurt someone. Today the Iowa Supreme court has ruled that our gay marriage ban is unconstitutional. I SO prayed that this would not happen! We have many gay people in this area who are very “in your face” with their leanings. Several of us who are against this have written in to the paper, only to be called “hateful, unChristian-like people”, though many have stated their beliefs in a loving manner. Unless we embrace this lifestyle we are being hateful. Someone responded to me with, “So that means that if one of your children told you they were gay, you would disown them and not want them to find happiness in life”? My response was, “I’ve done things in my life that my mother didn’t approve of, but she still loves me. If my children do something I don’t approve of, I still love them, though these things hurt because we know the pain it will bring them. When Jesus was confronted with the prositute, He said “Your sins are forgiven, GO and SIN NO MORE.” Maybe I’m wrong and this does sound hateful? Are we wrong when we try to lovingly confront what the Bible says is sin? Am I letting this get to me more than it should? My very bones tell me that this lifestyle is wrong. Am I guilty of sin if I DON’T speak out against it? The state of the world today brings tears to my eyes…I’m 49, but I don’t remember the world being this bad 30 years ago. To tell the truth, I’m expecting Jesus to come any day. Is this feeling why Jesus cried over Jerusalem? If anyone would care to explain or put this in perspective for me I would greatly appreciate it.

  39. chfranke says:

    Mart,
    I so much appreciate your faithful devotion to this blog and the efforts you take to keep us informed… And the interaction you have with us is just jaw dropping. It’s wonderful.
    Mtman, so glad you are sticking around.
    While I’ve been writing this post, jdanhuff and Laurielee have made excellent posts that express similar thoughts to mine, but here’s how I’d say it.

    I’ve been struggling for months (well, really years, but seriously since the Israeli-Palestine Conflict posts a few months ago here) with how I can love terrorists. I am finally realizing that terrorists are not “them” or “they.” They are people; as Poopity reminded us, we are all people who can use our brain to choose. These terrorist “people” have been horribly misled and there are as many different reasons for them to choose to kill as there are terrorists(too many to list here). This goes for both Palestinians and Israeli’s.
    For whatever reason, they have come to the conclusion through their circumstances and freedom of choice that the right thing for them to do is to kill. Even in the case of coercion, where their family members are being threatened, they choose that the right thing to do is kill.
    When they then carry out that choice, we can then choose to hate or love that person, and hate or love the person who misled the killer, and hate or love the person who misled the person who misled the killer, and on and on. It is impossible for us to understand all the circumstance that led to each person in that line make the decision they have made. That’s why we have the Holy Spirit. When we can’t understand how to love we can put it in God’s hands.
    That is when we can get a glimmer of what Christ meant when He was on the cross and asked God to forgive those that crucified Him, because “they know not what they have done.”
    We can do this because we survived the bombing and those who were killed are not here to do it. That doesn’t mean we lie down and wait to be killed by a misled person. It means, we need to be even more committed to communicate the true meaning of love to other survivors, meaning the rest of the world.

    So I am not pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian. I am for loving every person in each group and trusting God to work His glory out through the circumstances as they happen.
    Chuck

  40. poohpity says:

    Laurielee,
    I believe we have the right to express what we believe just like people about their sexuality. We have just the same right to be heard. You know sometimes we have to choose our battles I voted in AZ to not have same marriage recognized as marriage. I however have nothing to say about their union of another sort but I hold to marriage as between one man and one woman so that is what I take my stand against. If they want to name it something else that is up to them. Sometimes we make ourselves known by our political opinions and sometimes by our acts of love.

    I would rather be known by the work of my hands that displays my faith instead of fighting all the time about everything. Sometimes we really forget who is in charge and the job he gave us to do. Politics and boycotts and the like, I do not feel they let people really know who I am in Christ. It is by my life and my works. It seems that there is so very, very much work to do that is not getting done because we choose to use our mouths and not our actions. These are my thoughts and passions.

  41. sitsathisfeet says:

    Mart Welcome Back. I hope your jet lag goes away quickly and that your service to the Lord be greatly satisfying. While you were gone I watched the DVD’s My Search For Messiah, and six so far of the eight part Jesus Man, Messiah or More. It has been so wonderful as I feel myself ‘pondering” and investigating the subjects together. The conversation ranges from the philosophical theoretical to Jesus came and saved me out of the pit, very personal. I love that! As we investigate and debate all these issues together I am awed again by our Creator, as deep calls to deep, Psalm 42:7 and we are transformed by the renewing of our minds Romans 12:2. God created us with free-will, with which we can choose to love and follow him – or not. But, once we have made that choice, it is no longer I but Christ who lives within me that makes all things possible. When Jesus was in the garden did he not pray for his cup to be taken away? He did even as we may pray for our cup to be taken away. If we sucomb or yield to God’s will, he will enable us to endure. For Christ has already overcome this world, in whose victory we stand in the full armor of God the belt of truth, breastplate of righteousness, feet fit with the gospel of peace, shield of faith, helmet of salvation and the sword of spirit which is the word of God. So though we like Peter may take one step forward and two steps back, the Lord is there ever spurring us on. I am not able, but God is able. I am not faithful, but God is faithful, and when I am not able to walk, he will carry me. Blessed be the Lord.

  42. Mo says:

    Hi all. New here…what a wonderful blog. Welcome back Mart, and thanks…

    This is to Laurielee – I just wanted you to know that you are not alone. You expressed my feelings so perfectly. (Especially the explanation re: Jesus saying “Go and sin no more.” That is always what I use when trying to explain how I feel.

    Don’t give up….don’t give in. Continue to love, as He did. And still does.

  43. Robert says:

    Mtman,I hear you. I’m not certain though, that I feel un-Christian as I struggle with these things.

    One of the beautiful presents that God gave all of us when we came into this world was the ability to think critically and expand our knowledge of ourselves, Him and others around us that we may grow and share.

    He gave us a sense of right and wrong in our conscience. It is not un-Christian to allow that conscience, or as I like to think of it:our own private voice of Christ, to cause that gift of the mind to ask these questions of our conscience.

    Why does this (war, rape, terrorist, disease) make me feel bad is the same as saying to our conscience – why is this happening?

    Which is very different from why are You doing this? The former seeks understanding towards remedy while the latter seeks to apply blame as solace.

    But the question at hand is whether it is possible to Love thy neighbor as unconditionally as God loves us regardless of what that neighbor stands for or has done either to us or to others.

    For arguments sake, let substitute the word love for forgiveness just for a minute. We can do this b/c the two of them are codependent in a manner of speaking. To wit, many entries in this blog,mine included, have cited Christs final utterance to His Father from Calvary as a supreme example of Love – through his plead for forgiveness.

    I can say that I could possibly forgive a rapist or a terrorist if I really put my mind to it and prayed hard enough to put that which has been done behind me. Wouldn’t be easy and I could not guarantee success on the first shot but it’s plausible.

    But Love? Love means something different to everyone and comes in many different perceptions while forgiveness is a singular thing. There are no subtle nuances to it. It is what it is and it stands on its own.

    I could not “love” someone who harmed my family but I could somehow find forgiveness. As I said, wouldn’t be easy….but maybe.

  44. Laurielee says:

    Thank you and Welcome, Mo. It IS difficult to reach people through reason when the two don’t even think the same. There are people who’ve said that since there are many buddhists and muslims in this world Christianity can’t be the only way to heaven because God is a loving God and wouldn’t send so many people to Hades. I believe that God doesn’t SEND people there, but that through their choices (or lack of them) they CHOOSE to go there. The path to Hades is wide and many walk it…the path to Heaven is narrow and few find it.

  45. mtman says:

    Robert thanks for taking that extra shower and posting your thoughts. Bob, I did not serve in the Viet Nam theater but I served is special operations over much of the war. Some of my fellow airman died over there. Time heals most wounds for sure. I agree with Robert that I could forgive them but love and want their best – I’d be hard pressed for that.
    Laurilee: I guess I just come from an era that sexual preference was not in your face. I sort of figure if someone is oriented differently than man/wife that is their business and they can stand in judgement for it one day. Not for me to judge even though I am against it. The in your face part is the aspect that bothers me. I think that bothers many people.

  46. wretch-like-me says:

    Marti, it’s clear youre back…look at the ‘dust’ you have stirred up with this topic!

    Mtman: Steve: Pooh:(and all who have shared conflicted feelings about loving despite the evil they do…)

    Obedience is the answer to so much we have been speaking around…
    Faith without works…disobedience
    Christ loved the unloveable by obedience unto death.
    His struggle was no less than it is for us… He endured every temptation we know…and was sinless.

    Why did Christ have to die for our Salvation? Why couldn’t He have just ‘blinked his eyes’ or said a ‘magic word’ or ‘waved a wand’…
    because God, the Father, set the task before Him and in obedience to the Father, Christ submitted Himself.

    Marti’s take on Jonah implies “the real issue of this story is now for us to ask…to what extent are we, or our generation, like Jonah? To what extent am I sulking and mad at God because his plans are bigger than my own comfort?”

    I dont feel like loving my enemies(who does?)I don’t want to forgive the ‘murdering bastards’ that kill or maim innocent women, children and civilians with their IED’s. I want to annihilate the whole lot…I was one of the first that echoed Westmoreland’s infamous quote “Bomb them back to the StoneAge!” but, that is contrary to God’s Will. Will I be Obedient and not just forgive…but love them?

    I am reminded that to ‘die(to give my life) for a good man someone might do…but, to die for a sinner?’

    Could God’s Plan be more important than my comfort?

    Final thought: “to be absent in the body…is to be with Christ!” (KA-CHING!!!)

  47. mtman says:

    I have one more comment under this topic where Mart says he believes the end times are getting close. I agree. I was in the command post of the SAC headquarthers which was three stories underground and VERY safe during the Cuban missile crisis. I was one of three men with a side arm. I stood behind the command console while two officers had their keys inserted into the console to start an all out nuclear war. There were four clocks on the wall, one a normal one, one that started when any crisis occured, one that started when the crisis became more serious and the forth one that was a count down clock. When it started it was only the president of the US that could stop it. It was down to the point that if the Russian premier needed a bathroom break at that time the world would have been radioactive toast. I was actually there and witnessed this first hand. I was the last one into the command post and locked the door behind me. With hardly any time left to go on the last clock the red phone rang and the president said to stand down. We all knew if that phone didn’t ring those keys would have been turned in monents, both at the same time, and all the destructive might of the US would be launched. It was not a test, this was real time. All eyes were on that phone and those two officers.
    I knew when those keys turned I would never see my wife or infant again. They would be so much radioactive dust.
    I think God has a set of clocks too. We may be on the last one now (I don’t know) but once those keys are turned it will be to late. As events occur there is always the chance that something will happen that will put off the turning of those keys. I don’t know if those keys will turn in 1, 100, 1000 or 10,000 years but the clock will run out. When that happens I think we should have been witness to and told as many as we can about the gospel.
    Afterthought. When I went up top everything was normal and no one knew a thing that had just happened. It was like walking into a surreal world. I remember standing there in awe because these folks acted like nothing was wrong. I had just witnessed the possible destruction of mankind and here they were going on as normal. I think that is what the Lord means when he says he will return when we least expect it. When the world is falling down around our ears may not be that time. It may come when things are going well. Something to think about anyway.

  48. Robert says:

    Mtman, forgiveness is the spiritual perception of love.

    It’s sort of like saying, there’s no way I will condone what you did and I’m never going to have you over to my house for a BBQ and a beer because of what you did but the mere act of forgiving in ones heart, the sin that was committed is in itself a personification of Christs love.

    I mean, when we look at the Calvary example. The Romans were casting lots for his clothes and giving him vinegar to quench His thirst. There was no repentance here on their part but He begged His Father to forgive them anyway.

    And we all agree that we could forgive in the same way. Maybe this is the perception of love that Christ meant for us to spread.

  49. Laurielee says:

    mtman, Thank you for sharing that story! I’m sure everything else seemed pretty inconsequential at that moment. Can I ask…were you a Christian before that time, or not? Did that incident cause a major shift in the way you thought? (I’m so sorry for those times you went through, losing friends, time with your family, etc. Thank you very much for putting your life on the line for us!)

  50. mtman says:

    Laurielee: I am thankful that I have had such a wonderful life and great experiences. I was not a Christian at that time although it had a profound effect on me. I had a true Damascus Road experience at age 34, and that was probably 14-15 years later. That was when I became a Christian and I have never hesitated, looked back or doubted my choice since. My love for the Lord has grown deeper and deeper over the years. As if to show me that our Lord has a sense of humor when I was baptized at 34, the Bishop grabbed the wrong container and I was fully baptized in communion wine; the blood of Christ. Maybe that is why I’m so darned hard headed. I know it has nothing to do with my Irish heritage.
    You are welcome for sure and I hope and pray that we will never forget all the men and woman who have served and especially fallen in the line of duty and those of 9/11. They are the ones who I am sincerely thankful for.

  51. Robert says:

    I thank you too, mtman.
    …more than any words can ever convey.

  52. daisymarygoldr says:

    BruceC, you are right, If love is just spoken and not proven; it more or less can sound like empty words to those who are lost or hurting. The word of God convicts people and we turn away from our sins to accept Christ. Once our hearts are transformed…. Good Samaritan work follows. We do not preach about showing compassion and love…that is the fruit of the Holy Spirit. As followers of Christ it is natural for us to care for the deprived. If I have a coat and the other person is cold, my regenerated heart will display selfless love to give away my coat. If my neighbor is hungry, I will not preach cold words to her and bid her a good night of sleepless hunger.

    Not to point fingers but to learn a lesson…Today, this is exactly what is ailing the Catholic Church that emphasized on the Good Samaritan gospel of doing good works and failed to preach and teach God’s word. The need of the hour is salvation of souls. It is much easier to show love by feeding the needy…but the kingdom of God is not meat and drink. It is very difficult to show love by preaching repentance from sin… of course we will be hated for it and will be counted as enemies for the gospel’s sake. Nevertheless, we should love our enemies and continue to preach God’s Word…it will require a high price and it cost Jesus His life. Good deeds of love are done in secret…we do not preach, proclaim or make a show of it, do we?

    mtman, What a story! and Gr8 after thoughts!!

  53. sitsathisfeet says:

    I know I am not able to truly love and forgive, apart from Christ. I can try, but I will fail. Only Jesus can provide the way. the truth and life. He delivers us, is delivering us and will continue to deliver us out of peril as Paul says in 2 Cor 1:10. And as poohpity has said on prior posts I will try and fail, and try again. The thing I hold on to is God’s character, and his promises to see me through. When I lack understanding, or ability, or means, or even motivation I ask it of the Lord, as in James 1:5-7. And praise God he is able! I still fail miserably plenty of times, but the Lord is putting us through the refining fire, and though we may not have won each small battle, we have won the war through Christ. This was something I’ve been learning through the process when I was able to say I may not have been victorious in a earthly marriage, but I am victorious in Christ. I am learning to forgive my ex-husband and act with love toward him, just as I must ask fogiveness for the things I have done. It really is a day to day thing. To some it may seem a small thing, but it is the heart of the matter. So far I haven’t gotten the courage to watch the marriage and abuse dvd’s from DOD, too fresh. Also wanted to ask for prayer for my friend, let’s call her “D”. Her father passed away recently and three month’s later she is having a real tough time, she also hurt her back, and lost her job. Her husband spoke to me briefly a few weeks ago about it, but she opened up about things last night and we layed hands on and prayed for her. This seems to be a hinchpoint in her faith walk. I think a lot of us have been there, or maybe even now are there, she’s pretty angry with God for allowing those different things to happen, I’m going to give her a little prayer book with some scripture in it like I found helpful after my first husband died. Thank you for your prayers and all the insightful comments here. Janice

  54. laney says:

    Hi everyone Iam new here.How do you love the unloveable? Iremember when Saddom Hussein was going to be executed I thought good he deserves it.Then the Holy Spirit reminded me that Jesus loved and died for this man also.The next thing I knew I was interceeding for this man realizing without someone coming to preach salvation to him he was heading to hell.I wish I could say that I still have that burden to pray for these evil peoplebut I dont and they are the ones taht need our prayers the most. Lately it is allI can do to watch the news and sit there with tears running down my cheeks praying Lord please come take us home I cant take anymore.Then Iremember my unsaved children and all my brothers and sisters in Christ who have unsaved loved ones and I tell the Lord ok help me and give me strength to carry on because I dont want my family to have to go through the tribulation. The Lord says to think on good;pure and lovely thoughts but they have been getting hard to find with all the evil around us thenI remember Jesus is coming soon and I will be with him in the new Jereusalem.I want to thank everyone for this site it sure has encouraged me and the Lord used every one of you to answer all my questions I asked him over the last 3yearsof what I call my Job experience God bless all of you and again thankyou.

  55. Laurielee says:

    Welcome, Laney, and know that you’re not alone. So many of us are torn between wanting Jesus coming now and waiting for our families to be saved. It does appear as if things are moving faster and faster like a snowball rolling downhill. It sure seems like that in Iowa anyway! This blogsite has reminded me that there are still many, many true believers in this world and that the one that is an encourager today may be the one that encourages tomorrow…though we can look forward to the day when God dries every tear from our eyes forever! May God bring you peace and bless you and cause His face to shine upon you. You are loved!

  56. sjd says:

    Many good thoughts. I enjoyed reading tonight.

    As difficult as it is to reach out to the unlovable, those that fit more the class of the easily hated, I find something one of my teachers said years ago, helpful.

    He reminded us that all men and women are created in the image of God. Do we pray for image of God American, and not image of God Iranian? Do we not love image of God Venezuelan, but love image of God French? How about image of God________? You fill in the blank.

    It was helpful for me. It is also helpful for me to see that I am no different than that one that is so “evil”, am I? My heart was no different, it was desperately wicked. (My flesh is still contrary to my new self.) What if I was in different circumstances? I have learned to dwell in who I am now in Christ, but it is good for me to see what I was saved from. When I look at those that are so bent on hurting us, or someone else, it doesn’t take too much of my imagination to see images of me apart from the grace of God.

    Realize I am not there, but pressing on, far behind so many others. I am so thankful for God giving me that new heart, and indwelling me. Apart from that I would not be able to love my enemies, and want what is best for them, that is Christ. Only God living in us, can transform us.

    It has been good to hear many of your struggles, you are very transparent, and it is helpful to remind me and each of us, that God is able when we are not, and I am not!

    Praying for you all tonight, that we would be that Light in the darkest of times!

  57. laney says:

    Thanks for the welcome Laurielle.You are right things are moving faster and faster towards the Lords return.You can see it in the news. Our goverment is no longer even trying to hide there plans of the one world order. Its right there on the news every day. SJD thankyou for the reminder that Iam no different than the one I think is so evil. It is only Jesus Christs shed blood and my being conformed into his image that sets me apart from the unsaved. AS Iam being changed and conformed into his image the evil all around me is going to affect me because light and darkness cannot dwell together.The days are getting darker and darker as beleivers are drawing closer and closer to the light so we can be his spotless bride when he returns for us.

  58. mtman says:

    Laney: I just signed back on and also would like to welcome you to this blog site. Your comment above is very well stated..

  59. sjd says:

    mtman,
    It is good to hear you. Your story from your life was stirring. I have often thought about how life goes on with crises all around in our lives and others. At times you think, everything should stop, as we struggle, but it doesn’t. Thanks for your sharing. Your comments made me think more about Mart’s comments on Jonah. When we understand what God is trying to do, (reconciling others to Himself), am I going to respond as Jonah(I have), or desire to be used in God’s greater purposes. I can’t get that image out of my mind of you coming up to the surface with the knowledge of what just happened and everyone else not having a clue. I feel a sense of urgency as we are walking around with the Truth within us, and those around do not have a clue. Will I respond? Time will tell.

  60. daisymarygoldr says:

    “God is able when we are not”- sjd. I agree, no matter how hopeless the situation, God’s Word is able when our works are not.

    Yes, it is evident that evil around us is on the rise. Sin—its perversion and its deleterious effect on society is overwhelming to those of us who love God and His righteousness. However, where sin abounds, God’s grace abounds even more! Therefore, this is not the time for us to feel discouraged and sound defeated. This is not the time to allow the monstrosity of sin to overwhelm us.

    This is the time when we preach and teach to not minimize sin… but to maximize the kingdom of God and His righteousness. The battle is spiritual … and the Word is the only weapon… It is God’s Word that brings men to a realization of their sins and their need for God. When the people heard Peter preach… on the day of Pentecost, they were pricked in their hearts, and asked: “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”

    Jonah believed in the transforming power of God’s word. Jonah knew that God’s message will convict the hearts of the people of Nineveh despite their terrible sinful acts… they will surely believe God, and repent to be saved from His wrath. We know that it was God’s word alone that changed our sinful lives to make us a new creation in Christ. We should continue to believe that it is the ultimate life-giving, transforming power of God’s Word that will overcome all the evil in this world.

    The love of God is so patient… not willing that any should perish, but that all people everywhere should repent and be saved. The Lord will not delay about His promise to return… hence we should not be weary and delay but get the good news out to everyone around us. If we sense the urgency, then let us be diligent to do the work and preach the word…2 Tim 4: 1-5

  61. gr8grannyjacobs says:

    daisy You have just given the most beautiful message of why as Christians we have no time to hate. Plant the word is what we were called to do and if we are busy doing that we begin to be filled with the compassion and love Jesus felt for the lost. I always look forward to your posts. You are precious:)

  62. poohpity says:

    I was wondering if you guys have any suggestions about how to tell others about the Lord? I also wondered if anyone has any ideas about how we can get out of the church to the people who need to hear about the salvation from the Lord or do we wait for the unsaved to come to the church? Just some thoughts!

  63. sjd says:

    daisy,
    Amen

    Just had to tell all of you how encouraged I just was to see a mom from our Church and her daughter drop by. They have been studying the Book of Daniel and are seeing what is to come in the end times. Having a burden for her extended family who do not know Jesus, she wrote a loving letter that she is going to give them on Easter. It clearly expresses her love for them, and very clearly includes the Gospel. I know she would apreciate prayers for her family. As Daisy mentioned, Jonah knew the power of God’s Word, and I was able to encourage this young mom with her obedience and faithfulness in sharing God’s Word with her family.

    Pooh, just read your comment, and I guess here is one way to share the Gospel.:)

  64. Rick123 says:

    poohpity>>>Mat 10:12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

    10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

    10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

    10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

    Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart.

    2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

    Act 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

    Act 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

    16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed [their] stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

    16:34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

    Act 20:20 [And] how I kept back nothing that was profitable [unto you], but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,

    20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

  65. poohpity says:

    Gee Rick123, and how would you apply that to your life today? I keep trying to get you to talk to us rather than copying scripture. I want to let you know what you have to say is important and it is also important to apply scripture to life so how do you apply what you have copied above?

    The question I posed earlier was just to find out if people just hang at church and wait for people to come to them or do they talk to those who could really use hearing the Gospel outside of the walls of their local church. I was very curious!

    I wanted to let you know I read my bible every morning before I do anything because I need to be with the Lord so I can do a day. I have read all the way through several times in the KJV, Living Translation, NIV and The message. I am not saying this to boost but to let you know you keep giving me scripture and I would like to hear from you.

  66. sitsathisfeet says:

    Pooh a very good question, how does one go about “speading the gospel” etc. I have wondered about this myself. I think first we can pray about opportunities to the Lord, and prepare our responses in our heart and study. sjd what a great idea the young woman had of giving letters to her family. Around Christmas an aquaintance of ours grandmother was dying, and you could just tell he was upset about it. He mentioned something about it, and I wrote him a note with scripture from Philippians 4:7 and Rev 21:4. I had prayed about it, but I was nervous about giving it to him, I didn’t know if he was a believer, or a Muslim or what… I carried it around for a week. Also I couln’t remember at that point his name so I put Dear Brother and Family. Well, to my surprise it was very well recieved and he now greets me by name and I’ve had a chance to talk about the Lord a couple of times. I’m not sure what’s going to happen whether I will see any seeds sown etc. , but I definately felt the Lord’s leading and tried to be obedient. Often in ministry we pray for opportunities to come, doors to open, and people to show up. Tomorrow I go visit my son and family, my seven year old grandson’s birthday. It is with a sense of anticipation I go not only to spend some family time, but to be able to talk about our faith. Although we talk and email it has been one year since I physically visited with them. In June they are talking about moving back to our area, which I would like. When we talk about spreading the gospel it comes to my mind one thing, the Lord moves in mysterious ways, in that we can never see the big picture, one plants, one sows, one reaps etc. And I think about Paul at different times and how the Holy Spirit blocked his going to Asia Minor, and how he very much wanted to go there. So I guess I’m saying we should pray for opportunites, the ability to disern them, and then the capability and enabling of the Lord. I am confident that he will do it!

  67. Robert says:

    Well, I’ve only got this to say about you Rick123, you sure do have a good command of the scripture. You follow the blog and fire off an appropo excerpt.

    I, conversely, rely on my emotional responses to what I read in scripture and usually manage to screw up the words to the passage that I’m referring to but it doesn’t stop me from rambling on and on anyway.

    But Pooh’s right Rick. Why not wade in here and let us know what you think and what you’e thinking. With a capacity to nail scripture like that, I’d love to hear more about what it means to you.

  68. poohpity says:

    TY Robert.

    sitsathisfeet,
    I have asked myself that question I was asking others because it seems hard sometimes to open up the conversation. I feel that when the Lord brings someone to me I fail to respond in telling them.

  69. sjd says:

    I have been studying in the Gospel of John lately and am encouraged as I see Jesus interact with so many on a one on one interaction. We can learn much from the example of the Samaritan woman alone
    I believe we need to have specific people in mind and look for specific ways to reaching out, as well as for those spur of the moment encounters.

    We need to be out there in the public as well. Going to the parks, the malls, “asking for that cup of water”.

    We need to learn Jesus’ method of speaking in the natural and then swinging the conversation to the spiritual. I have found that it really isn’t hard to do that. Everyone is “spiritual” these days. Discussions on the economy, war, relationships, death, all can easily be switched over to spiritual talk. A simple question like, “do you have a Christian background?”, or “do you have any spiritual belief?”, are good openers for me to then ask about their eternal thoughts, or what they do with Jesus.

    We must be able to use the law to reveal others sin. Paul said that it was to be the school master to lead us to Christ, that without the law we would not know what sin was. Without the knowledge of sin, there won’t be an understood need for the Savior.

    My personality has not always led to street type evangelism, but even now God has enabled me to allow Him to do that at times. Nothing is impossible with God. I prefer some relationship that i/HE can “work” from, but we do need to be sensitive to the opportunities God gives us. I have found that some tracts are easy ways to get a conversation going, without even going through the tract. It just breaks the ice.

    We are told not to hide our light under a bushel, could that mean hiding it “in a church building”?

  70. Rick123 says:

    poohpity…Robert,

    We are ambassadors for Christ.

    Opportunity is every where, it is not rocket science, let us not be ashamed of Christ and his work.

    And let us not just talk about it, be a doer of the word, and not just a hearer, act on the word by faith.

    Let God’s word be sown in every heart as we have a chance to act upon in their life, for God gives his Holy Spirit to those who obey him and his word.

    1Corinthians 9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; = yea, = woe is unto me, = if I preach not the gospel!

    2Ti 4:2 preach the Word, be instant in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine

    Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

    5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

    5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

    5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

    Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money.

    Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

    25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, [there] thou hast [that is] thine.

    25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, [Thou] wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed

    25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and [then] at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

    25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give [it] unto him which hath ten talents.

    25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

    25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.

    25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.

    25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.

    25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

  71. Robert says:

    Hey Rick. Great point and well made, too. You mentioned that opportunity is everywhere to spread the word and you’re right about that, but what’s your take on those who, even after hearing the word, still question or possibly even reject Christ?

    I mean, I guess I’m looking at these scripture passages you’ve selected and it paints a picture of a pretty severe picture of the future for those who don’t belive.

    Rick, I saunter in and out of this forum throughout the year, akin to returning to the well for some water. Those who may remember me will know I lost my parents last summer. One was very religious and the other not at all for his entire life and while he lay there dying, I prayed my best prayers for him and offered Christ my very soul for his that he may enter into his kingdom that night and I would gladly take whatever punishment he had coming at the end of mine. I still pray for him.

    Your scripture selection upsets me, Rick..on a very personal level. If Christ actually means all of this in the literal manner in which you present it, then he is an unjust God and I have a great problem believing this.

    If what you present is true and this is the punishment ordained for those who do not see the word, then I choose to stand with my father on the outside looking in. He was a good man who never saw the light. I will stand with him outside and be his light.

    This is what my Christ taught me to do.

    I mourn my father all over again today and doubt is creeping back into my life. I doubt that my prayer was heard and I fear for my fathers soul.

    Rick, I’m reaching out to you. Step in and help me with this b/c you don’t know how much I’m hurting right now the more I read this scripture with no interpretation attached to it.

  72. mtman says:

    Robert: I hear you brother and what one of us has not at one time prayed just like you did for your father. I am the last one left in my immediate family and I regret to tell you that hurt doesn’t go completely away but with the Lord’s help it lessens over time. Our Lord will not put upon you more than you can bear but only time and the balm of our Lord will soften the hurt. Remember that there were two other men who the master gave money to care for. They invested it wisely and were rewarded for their effort. Some pay lip service to the Lord and some fake it atogether. Those are the ones the Lord rejected. There are those like my family who would not talk about the Lord to even their family but their behavior lent itself to the fact that they had the Lord in their heart. We simply don’t know what is another persons heart but we hope it is right and when we enter into heaven we will see them there. Remember there are no tears or pain in heaven. Our Lord is a loving God. I don’t think Rick quoted that scripture to hurt you but to lead you however, he will have to answer that himself.
    Pooh: I used to be involved in a Christian movement called Cursillo. They had a quip on how to reach people one at a time. MAKE A FRIEND, BE A FRIEND, BRING THAT FRIEND TO CHRIST: I have found that to work over the years. You have to get outside your church to make that friend mostly, but there are a lot of pretenders in a church that need to make that alter call to turn their lives over to the Lord too. I have witnessed that transition when one does kneel before the alter of God and turn their life over to the Lord. It is something to behold and so very very humbling to be a part of.

  73. Mart De Haan says:

    Robert, thanks for opening up your heart. Your words remind me of the Apostle Paul who also said that he would be willing to lose his own acceptance with God if it could mean the salvation of those he dearly loved (Rom 9:3).

    I know you’ve asked Rick for a response but I read your comments after writing a new post this a.m. and am afraid I might have moved the conversation on without the response you asked for.

    So many of us struggle with similar fears and concerns for loved ones. So you will be in our hearts and prayers today.

    The only way I can find any peace of mind on this is to trust the goodness and compassion that we all see in Christ, and to realize that the warnings of Scripture are for the living.

    God alone knows the heart of those we love– before and after they move out of our presence. I want so much to believe that, even in what appears to be an unconscious state(like when God appeared to Solomon in a dream and asked him what he wanted him to do for him)God could answer our prayers and prompt a response of faith from our loved one.

    Obviously I don’t know if that is an option or not.

    The words and warnings of Jesus to those who reject the truth in life certainly need to be taken seriously. But we don’t know the intensity or conscious regret or conscious duration in any given person.

    God alone knows what a person understands and consciously accepts or rejects, just as he alone knows whether a person has responded to grace by faith at any point in life.

    Certainly, if there is no visible evidence it leaves us without certainty or assurance.

    But what we do know is the goodness of God, and that, compassionate as he is, he is not a sadist, nor will he add one more second or degree of judgment than would be necessary, right, and good, in the eyes of the best and wisest of persons.

    As far as your father. We grieve with you that you have no assurance. But we pray that God will comfort you in the awareness that Jesus who died for us, is the same one who will judge. In his goodness, and by his grace, may we rest in what he alone understands.

  74. Mart De Haan says:

    mtman, thank you for responding to Robert. We must have been writing at the same moment…

  75. laney says:

    Robert so sorry about your father. I really feel for you because I went through the same thing you are going through.I lost my husband suddenly 3 years ago. It was so tragic to me that I sill need the Lords healing balm where my emotions are concerened. I use to pray and interceed for my husband to get saved .I even went so far as leaving prayer cloths in side his pillow. Just before he died he seemed like he was getting so close to coming to understand the salvation messagethat I thought for sure he would get saved. Needless to say I will never know. He was left in a coma he only had one little piece of his brain that was left working. My girlfriend and her husband went up to the hospital a couple of times to witness to him .She said every time they did all the machines he was hooked up to would start bussing and making noises.The one day they went I must have just missed them.When I went in to see him I kept smelling anointing oil.I thought boy I really am losing my mind now I smelling anointing oil.I found out later they used it when they prayed for him.My last memories of my husband was me telling him to call out to jesus he was his only hope right now.His eyes opened and shut which I know the doctor told me it was just reflexes.But I chose to beleive that the Lord was trying to show me every thing is ok. Some days Iam not so sure but I have to leave that in Gods hand or I can drive myself crazy worring about it.If he is not saved I know the Lord will dry those tears in heaven for me. God bless you Robert and I will keep you in prayer because I know exactely how you feel.

  76. mtman says:

    Laney: My mother in law was in a similar condition and had the exact experience when prayed for to open her eyes. My wife was told exactly what you were told by medical staff.
    We don’t know what goes on in a person in that condition but maybe that is exactly where our Lord wants them to be so He has their full attention. Maybe that is exactly where our earnest prayers are heard and acted upon and answered. I don’t know but maybe someday I will understand it all when I get to heaven. Can’t a wife bring her non – believer husband into paradise with sincere prayer? After all doesn’t that still small voice come to us when we sleep, at times of quiet? My point is that we don’t know what happens but maybe – just maybe that is where our Lord speaks to those in that condition…

  77. laney says:

    Robert I want to apoligize to you. Iam so sorry that I told you all about my experience with the death of my husband. That is something you did not need to hear right now.
    You need words of healing and encouragement.Draw close to Jesus only he can heal your broken heart.I know he might seem far away right now but he promised he will never leave us or forsake us.

  78. poohpity says:

    Robert,

    I have heard many people and pastors say we may be surprised that some of the people we thought would be in heaven aren’t and ones we thought would not be there are. I love the Lord in my imperfect way but I trust His grace and Mercy. He is God and we are not and we try as much as we can to understand His ways but trust me we have not a clue about His fullness. We only have a glimpse. So enjoy the memories that your father left with you and smile because you trust God in all things. I love you have a blessed day and I am sending a big hug to you. :)

  79. laney says:

    Mtman thankyou so much for sharing that with me.You are so right.Looking back over the last several years I beleive now that was the only way God colud get his attention. You have really encouraged me with your comment about that still small voice while we sleep.IT has now giving me hope that in my husband final hours he heard that still small voice and responded. My husband also suffered a heart attack and died he was dead for about 8 to 15 minutes before the brought him back. I always wonder if maybe the Lord let him see death and gave him another chance to respond to Jesus before he took him home.

  80. Laurielee says:

    I’m writing this in response to those wondering about loved ones who have passed. The only reactions that tell US what’s going on with another is what we can visibly see. We always hearken back to the Bible words that only God knows the heart. I wholeheartedly believe this is true. Even doctors can only translate that which is seen. I have hesitated to tell you all about an experience I had 4 years ago because of the interpretation of others, and have wondered many times if this experience was for me alone or to be shared. If it could help someone else, I will share it.

    I had major surgery done those 4 years ago. I had never had morphine before, so no one expected what happened. I immediately quit breathing. They did not know if I would survive for the first 16-24 hours. As I was laying there, unaware of my surroundings, there was an irritating alarm noise from what seemed like far away. It registered vaguely like when you are deeply asleep and don’t realise your alarm is going off to wake you up until you come to your senses…the only problem is, I wasn’t coming out of the “sleep” to my senses. Suddenly, I finally was able to place the noise. I seemed to be watching from the upper far corner of the room. I saw someone laying in the bed, and a nurse run from the room to get help. I didn’t really seem to care as it didn’t seem to affect me, though somehow it registered that the person was me. Then, suddenly, I was just not in that place. I was talking with someone I knew to be Jesus, though I couldn’t see Him. It was as if I were in a transitory place. I was saying that I was ready and wanted to come with Him, but He was gently telling me that it wasn’t my time yet, that there was more for me to do. I even pleaded; I was upset that He wouldn’t let me come. I had to come back. That was the end of the experience…again I was unaware until hours later, when they finally surmised that I would recuperate. I went through a deep depression for a couple of months because I knew what awaited me on the other side but was not allowed to go. I did finally come to the realisation that God is in control and He knows what I cannot know. I cannot know my time or end of earthly days….

    There are probably people who would think that it’s some delirium brought about by the situation. There are probably those who would interpret this incident differently, or think that I’m just nuts. That doesn’t bother me. I know what happened to ME. The point I’m trying to make is that no one besides me and Jesus know from firsthand experience what happened. Not the doctors, my friends, or closest loved ones. We have to give the situation to God when we wonder about our loved ones, because we are not privy to that meeting between He and them. Since we are human, we can only rely on what is seen. God is also in charge of what is not seen, and we have to trust that He truly does know what is best. Please be comforted.

  81. mtman says:

    Laurielee: I for one believe you fully. Like I wrote to Laney we don’t know what happens sometimes. Thank you so much for sharing that very personal story. I have heard similar stories over the years and it is not for me to doubt. We just don’t really know unless we have experienced it ourselves. With so many people pretty much saying the same thing has happened to them who can refute it.
    It does remind me of the shortest verse in the bible: Jesus wept. I have thought about that many times and I think one explanation he waited so long is because he knew what he was going to do. He was going to bring Lazerus back from paradise into the world of the living. Jesus wept. Maybe for reasons that we can never know until we cross over there too. Just my comment and I really thank you for sharing this story.

  82. laney says:

    Thankyou for sharing your experience with us.It does bring me comfort. I for one do not beleive that it was brought on by delirium or that you are nuts. I truly beleive you were with the Lord. I also could see why you would be depressed, who wouldn’t be after just spending time in the present of Jesus and haven to come back here. But like you said God is in charge. Thanks again for sharing.

  83. Robert says:

    Laney, you have nothing to apologize for. I am so sorry for your loss. I offer my thoughts and prayers for your husband as well.

    Mart, your kind words have helped again. I trust in the Lord but as you can tell from my posts, I’m the inquisitive one.
    Let’s move on. I just got caught up in the moment. Thank you to everyone.

    Mtman, with everything you’ve seen and experienced and regrettably lost in your life, your words meant much to me. Take care of yourself, buddy. My prayers are with you.

    And Pooh, what can I say? You always know the right thing to say. The world needs more eternal optimists like you. I would say God be with you but he’s already so much a part of you, it’s incredible.

  84. Rick123 says:

    Robert,

    My brother at age 39 died of a fatal heart attack three years ago, he died without Christ Jesus in his heart.

    He died in his room alone, only God knows how he reacted at the point of his death, my hope is that he called upon the Lord when he was dying>>>Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

    My mother died last year of liver cancer, I believe the death of my brother really took a toll on her, five days before she died, we prayed together and she accepted Jesus into her heart, she told me she felt and overwhelming peace.

    My Father at age 81-years old accepted Jesus into his heart, he is doing very good considering what he has gone through in his life, I believe all the glory belongs unto the Father and his Son-Jesus forever.

    My niece at age 10 accepted Jesus in her heart she felt God’s peace, it happened just when me and my dad were about to partake of the Lord’s supper, she told me that she wanted to partake of the Lord’s supper, so I begun to give her God’s word that she first needed to accept Jesus in her heart to partake in the Lord’s supper.

    Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Jhn 6:44<<<Is a very interesting verse, cause it clearly says that a person can not come to Christ unless the Holy Spirit which proceeds from the Father calls him/her, so if the Father does not call him/her how shall him/her be saved?

    There are people in other nations that never hear of the saving gospel of Christ, they die without Christ in their heart, so is God unjust?

    Have you ever wondered, before the cross(Jesus), how were the gentiles(Nations) saved? and we know very clearly that power of the cross was already established in the old testament scriptures, but the keepers of these scriptures did not preach salvation through Chirst, and unto these days we live in, they(Keepers) are still blind and reject their Messiah, so how were the gentiles(nations) saved?

    Robert, the secret things of God belong to him and the revealed things belong unto us, do not look to the past, the right, or the left, but look unto him who died for our sins, by who stripes(Love and friendship) we are healed, rest in his love, and your load will be light which will bring you peace.

  85. Robert says:

    Rick, thank you.

    Your words have touched my heart and I mourn your losses.
    You are among friends here.
    God be with you, Rick.
    I will remember you and your family in my prayers.

  86. poohpity says:

    Wow Rick it is good to hear your voice thank you so much for sharing and teaching. Now that is what I was talking about. :-)

  87. pegramsdell says:

    So sorry Rick for you losses. I pray that God bless you in super mighty way. In Jesus’ Name. :) Peg

  88. sonchild says:

    Hi read this thread and would like to return to the original thoughts posted. I was in Isreal also with a secular tour and found it fascinating. Since I am not American, I come from a different paradigm than some of the respondents. To level the field of understanding, my father was on alert during the 1967 war so I remember some events of Israel’s recent history as a child well. Fear mongers back then bombarded European military bases with garbage on the radio. I will not respond further to this observation but personally see Isreal, not the USA, as the nation that will hold back the beast. We observed that Isreal is the warrior nation of the OT even today.

    There is a lot of love in Israel and Palestine and a lot of hatred. Both are thick enough to taste when you walk the streets. Since we were not as sheltered on our tour as some tours are, we saw how many peoples live when we left the beaten tourist track. Here are some sociological generalizations we observed. The Bedouins live in the worst conditions and are acknowledged as the children of Ishmael by the Isrealis and Christians. The Christians we met who are Palestinian are squeezed by the Jew and Muslim who do not want to recognize them as human. They live a challenged life as a livelihood is tenuous at best. In the pay scale Jews earn more, then Muslim, Christian, and Bedouin for the same work…IF they can get work. There are many other social hierarchies in this small nation. Idiosyncrasies abound. Christians who represent the orthodox church live well compared to the Palestinian Christian.

    Muslims and Jews alike are cordial, warm, welcoming people who expect you will respect their way of life. When they know their neighbour, life is sweet, when they fall into fundamentalism, life is hell for all in the vicinity. Personally I was treated well and horribly by both Jew and Muslim while there. I considered the source of the nasty treatment, not the messenger.

    Lessons I learned while in Isreal:

    The best part of Israel is the understanding that God touches people who live in the crossroads and cross-hairs of humanity. The life-scape is the much the same as what it was when the Canaanites lived in the land. We are a sorry lot of sheep and goats, who need a shepherd to save us. Happy is the lamb who follows fast on the heels of the shepherd.

    Life is about choices: choose life or death is the most basic wording of this. In all nations some will choose life and some death. Those that are undecided need our hands to reach out and pull them close into the love of Christ.

    I am the temple of God as He dwells in me. I do not need to seek another temple. Jesus is alive and lives in me. I need to present the temple as Jesus would with much temperance and loving kindness.

    I need to see people as God does. They are his beloved children. I will choose to see them as God does are when saved and standing before the glory of God.

    When God comes again, he comes again. The promise has been made and I have way too much work to focus on showing the way through my life and evangelism and discipleship, to be concerned about the politics of the region and religion. I may die for the sake of Christ’s flock, but that is the beginning not the end. Like Jonah I must do what I am called to do and leave the results to God. I may never fully understand the process or see the answer, but I trust my LORD and rely on his word to guide me.

    The real enemy of all peoples is Satan, He hates that we are made in the image of God: so we need to be the image of God to those of other faith systems. We need to know our neighbour before we can love them. We need to love ourselves as God’s children before we can love another. Love takes practice. I fight the battle by loving and praying for others, I stand the ground and let God fight. Genesis 12:1 says God is my shield and very great reward. How great is that promise. Other children of Abraham need to know and live that. They cannot until they are pulled into the love of Christ behind God our shield. Lets pull others into love. ( there were some great stories on this topic in this thread, bless you in overcoming fear that masquerades as hatred)

    God is sovereign. He is to be honored and respected. He is more than the friend to his children: he is father, Lord and judge. His ways are beyond our understanding.

    The kingdom is now, It began when I chose to live in the kingdom under the cover and lordship of my savior Jesus Christ. Israel is the promised land under the law, but the kingdom of God is much greater and richer (as Moses describes) than the small territory promised to the nation Israel. Because of the scope of the kingdom, we need to prepare our neighbours to receive the kingdom enthusiastically. (en theos, In God)

    Jonah’s fish is a reminder of the ways God transports us by faith to do his will regardless of how we feel. When at the old harbour of Joffa, I thought of the many Jews who fled Israel because they chose to follow Jesus. What kind of cover did God encase them in to spread the gospel so I would one day hear the words of Life? What is to be my cover to turn my heart back to the needful people? Can revive my heart without testing God to send such drastic measures?

    If you can, go to Israel. You do not need to go to just touch life. Why cross the world when you can just cross the street?

  89. jhoben says:

    Sonchild, thanks for sharing your heart. Your final comment sums it up very well.

    Having been asked to serve on a non-profit board who recently voted to include an outreach to Israel, Mart’s and everyone’s comments are precious. Thanks for all you all do every day, as fellow ambassadors to Christ Jesus!

    John Hoben

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