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Follow the Gifts…

“Follow the money,” was the memorable quote from All the President’s Men. An unnamed source suggested to Bob Woodward that the key to understanding the Watergate mystery was the money.

At the end of that path were reasons to be cynical.

But change the idea slightly. Refocus on “follow the gifts” … and we find the key to understanding the mysteries of life.

At the end of this path are reasons for unending gratefulness.

Follow the gifts. They are the path to the spirituality we were made for.

Every human gift comes with faint echoes of all that matters.

A disciple of Jesus wrote that the source of all good gifts is God. But which of all the gods, or religions, or faiths is he… or she? The answer is life changing. The One who gives gifts.

The one true faith is the one rooted not in what we do for God… but in what God has done for us. True worshipers in turn are those who are willing to receive the gifts of God… paid for at God’s expense…

What does that mean? What could be a meaningful cost to the God who has everything?

What did it cost God… to be born as one of us?

Did Mary’s baby cry when he was born? If so did that cry have anything to do with the price he would pay… to buy the good news we would eventually hear… that God is offering us gifts… at his expense… that we could never repay.

Could that be the answer? Follow the gifts… to the only true God… and to the only real source of Joy to the World…

PS… Because of the Christmas sentiments that came in last night I’m going to bring the last few forward that were posted under “The Wonder of the Magi”…


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42 Responses to “Follow the Gifts…”

  1. Mart De Haan says:

    Bob in Cornwall England says:
    December 24, 2009 at 7:27 pm

    Just turned Midnight GMT (Universal time as it is now known)Beem me up Scotty. lol

    Just want to wish everyone a very merry and happy Christmas.
    Thank you Dale for thinking of me here, I am thinking of you to!
    Seems you lot over the other side of the Atlantic are having a cold time of it this winter, we are cold but even at midnight here it is still a balmy +5c (41f?)
    Though we had Ice a few days ago and -2c inland at night.
    Anyway Happy Christmas from Europe. May Jesus come back soon and bring peace to this troubled world.

    Wonderful! Counselor! Almighty God! Everlasting Father! Prince of Peace!
    My Friend and King!
    Love, Bob :-)

  2. Mart De Haan says:

    kaliko88 says:
    December 24, 2009 at 9:13 pm (Edit)

    It is Christmas Eve and I’m stuck at home with the cats. Was supposed to be on the road to my mom’s but we’re right in the path of the blizzard. It’s snowing and blowing and there have been a lot of accidents. Seems every time I look at the weather warnings they keep increasing the amount of snow we’re expecting, now up to 10 inches, which is a lot here. It’s the blowing that’s the problem, making it hard to see and causing dangerous drifting. If it keeps up, I won’t be able to go anywhere for Christmas either. But the power is still on, so that is my Christmas present.

    Almost all the churches had to cancel Christmas Eve services, so I came here for a little bit of “church.” It’s funny but, I was just thinking of the wise men this morning. I too am impressed with their traveling so far and believing and worshipping.

    As for the Christmas-disconnect of the secular world, well, I try not to let it get in the way of my celebrating. Each year the “fight” about keeping the true meaning of Christmas seems to get bigger, but it just looks like yet another distraction of the devil to me. My family gives gifts to the kids, holds a gift exchange for the adults, and spends the rest of the time enjoying being together. A lot of us give donations as presents thanks to a tradition my grandfather started years ago. To be honest, the gift exchange was as much about being tired of simple gift-giving as it was because we’re such a large family. But I love giving gifts. I’m just so grateful for my family and I like to show it. The wind just picked up even more and one of the turbines on my roof is making an awful racket.

    Speaking of being grateful, thank you all for your prayers. I should have updated sooner about my friends, but all three are resolving so differently. The friend who miscarried is doing okay, surrounded by friends and family. The friend who’s husband nearly died, well, that’s not so good. He is still recovering, but he’s also started drinking again. She’s beside herself with worry and frustration. And the friend being treated for lymphoma and who will be losing her job and benefits tomorrow …. it looks like it’s still going to happen. We’ve heard nothing from anyone despite several attempts. The only good thing is, her treatments are going well, and she will recover.

    Well, I have enjoyed this discussion immensely. I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas. It’s my first Christmas alone since the separation and I’m determiend it will still be merry, even if all my travel plans are changed. I’m off to put on hot water for some mocha, dig into a bag of M&M’s, watch a Charlie Brown Christmas and Muppet Christmas Carol, and watch my cats play with their Christmas catnip mice.

  3. Mart De Haan says:

    maxtheweb says:
    December 24, 2009 at 9:23 pm
    I pray everyday to Jesus… “Dear Jesus, please save me from your followers! And this is the truth.

  4. Mart De Haan says:

    poohpity says:
    December 24, 2009 at 11:38 pm
    Gee, Max, sorry to hear you feel that way about us. We are not perfect just in process. I hope Jesus answers your prayers but if you keep looking us up how can He save you from us. That’s like saying save me from the pool as you dive in, LOL.

  5. Mart De Haan says:

    Ted M. Gossard says:
    December 25, 2009 at 3:24 am

    What a wonderful part of the Christmas Story, the Magi’s appearance.

    A Blessed and Merry Christmas to you and yours!

  6. Mart De Haan says:

    Bob in Cornwall England says:
    December 25, 2009 at 4:03 am
    ******** Happy Christmas ********

    I am praying for you kaliko88, some parts of Britain have travel restrictions due to snow and ice, but a bright sunny morning at +5c (41f) here in west Cornwall. Perhaps God is keeping you at home for a reason, I always think of those stories of people who were delayed for work at the Twin Towers that fateful morning, some just stopped to buy a paper or missed the train etc. If Our Lord is keeping you in it is for your good, so enjoy!
    I too have a cat and she looks after me.

    maxtheweb, I to know what you mean about “Christians” but we are a work in process, as Pooh said, and all of us have lots of faults. The trick is to look beyond the person and see Jesus, even when we come out with those little sound bights of scripture that roll of the toungue without thought and can hurt if taken the wrong way. Always look for the good intention.
    When I first came on this site I thought “what a pious, jumped up lot”, but when you here the agonising stories of peoples lives and struggles you begin to see why we all cling to Jesus so hard, there is no one else we can turn to. He became a baby, then a man, then He gave His life so that we could live with him forever.
    He Made everything that exist, yet loves us to death, litteraly!
    Yet He conquered death and rose up to reign as King of Kings and Lord of Lords forever. Amen!

    No church today as our little Barn Fellowship is small and many have farm work to do today as well as family gatherings.
    I am off to my friends house in the village for a champagne breakfast at 10:30 :-)
    I am so glad I have had the privellage of meeting you all here and glimsing into your lives.
    Happy Christmas Dale, Steve, Pooh and everyone xxx

    Bob

  7. Mart De Haan says:

    foreverblessed says:
    December 25, 2009 at 5:50 am
    maxtheweb, tell about your experience that you pray this.

    I was thinking, a lot of people sho read this will think: “how can these people be so happy about Jesus, I cannot worship Him like that. Do they really mean it, or just fake it.”
    Bob, you said it nicely, we have nowhere else to go to when we are in real trouble, noboby can give you a hand like Jesus can. Just call on His name, and He will start to answer.

  8. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Thanks Mart for transfering our comments and greetings to your new topic on this very special day.

    A Warm and Wonderful Christmas Day to you Mart and all you Love and Care for.

    Bob

  9. SFDBWV says:

    Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God iseternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    1 Cor 12:1 Now concerning Spiritual gifts, brethern I would not have you ignorant…

    1 Cor 13:1…Love over gifts

    Merry Christmas to one and all this morning.

    An icy covering on everthig this morning, especially the roadways. Good day to go nowhere.

    In reading the topic Mart has provided this morning, I was led to the scripture references I mentioned at the top of my post.

    Following the gifts brings us to the free gift of Salvation, following spiritual gifts brings us to perfected love.

    Without love the gifts mean nothing. They are empty. But for God who can love us in spite of ourselves. His perfect love overlooks our weakness and because of His sacrifice of Jesus of Nazareth; His gift is forgiveness.

    Eternal forgiveness.

    Steve

  10. SFDBWV says:

    Mart, the question you raised, “what did it cost God to become one of us? is one that we will see and understand only when it is opened to us to be able to comprehend it. I doubt any of us can truly understand it now.

    The question opens up the full scope of ones imagination.

    When Thomas sees Jesus for himself (John 20:24-27) Jesus still has the wounds from the Passion, why did they have trouble recognizing him ( John 20:14)? Maybe because he still had the marks placed on Him by the Passion.

    John in Revelation 5:6 seen a Lamb as it had been slain….As it had been slain.

    This is from the scripture not my imagination.

    So Christ still bears the wounds of the cross, these 2 thousand years. How long need he bear them?

    We have discussed how God created everything including evil. But in God’s being, there was no sin, yet He took sin onto Himself, for us to be set free.

    How long must He bear this?

    We get a free gift, but God pays and continues to pay the price for it.

    When will He be set free of the sin found in His creation?

    Maybe when He creates a new heaven and a new earth, maybe.

    This is how long and how great God’s love is for us, everyone of us.

    Steve

  11. Loretta Beavis says:

    Joyful Christmas greetings everyone!
    My heavenly Father has given me the most expensive gift possible-Himself as a ransom for my debt of sin… Thank you Daddy!

    This year has been dramatic for me. I’m going to take my grateful joy somewhere different this Christmas day-not to “church” but to a new friend’s house with their family, and pay for a riding lesson with another new friend who is in terrible emotional and financial pain…no, you won’t find these friends in any church.
    But I know that’s where I’m supposed to be and why I’m supposed to be-I want more and more to live my faith, not only talk about it.

    I’m so grateful for this blog, too. If not for RBC, a blogger like Maxtheweb would never be able to anonymously Follow the Gifts and get close to The Truth.

    My alcoholic spouse has been cruel, especially around the holidays, but I understand now, and I leave for a day or two-I have had to learn to accept help from the sources God directs me to. I have also learned that love demands justice.

    Gotta go! Let the peace of the God who Is Love flood your lives today.
    Loretta

  12. Ted M. Gossard says:

    Well put, Mart. Good words to reflect on. And how wonderfully true for us and for the world, in Jesus.

  13. poohpity says:

    Steve, sorry I do not believe that God created evil although He did create the beings that choose to rebel against God. Then to give His life for those who chose to rebel against Him. From the beginning of creation all He wanted was to have a relationship with us in light of our rebellion He sought us out. Then to lay down His Deity to show how very much He loved us. Now that is the ultimate gift. “Jesus is the Gift” to all mankind to restore us to Himself.

    Unlike the gifts we give each other that may or may not be what we wanted and that are not lasting but fade. The gift of Love is something that will never fade or leave us. A Love that not because we loved Him but that He FIRST loved us. The origin and original Love relationship.

  14. SFDBWV says:

    Isaiah 45:7 ” I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and *create evil*: I the Lord do all these things.”

    Sorry Pooh I would never accuse God of creating evil if He had not said so Himself.

    Steve

  15. rokdude5 says:

    Merry Christmas everyone. As we scurried around looking for the perfect gift for Aunt Marge, how many of us by pass the one truly Perfect Gift of Jesus Christ? He was Perfect in fulfilling the law so that the Perfect sacrifice can be made on ALL of our behalf. Jesus is the Perfect Gift for us because Matt 11:30 For my yoke is easy. The yoke that sin imposes is heavy, and bearing it brings no rest. So, too, the yoke of false or corrupted religion is burdensome …

    Who wouldnt want that? Unfortunately a lot people dont believe this. Youll think they would check it out like trying on a new sweater and see if its true.

    Hopefully, Maxtheweb will be back. If you are back Max, Merry Christmas. We Christians are not perfect…in fact for proof, they let me in. I take it Max that you will agree that youre not perfect either.

    Though I wonder since this website didnt go look for you, maybe you should check this out further and perhaps you may realized what really brought you here. So check it out Max. Put it on for size. RJ

  16. poohpity says:

    Steve you may consider or look at another translation. I am not in anyway putting you down. It says in NIV, “Bring Disaster”; NAS, “Creating Calamity”; NLT, “I bring good times and bad”. I believe God was saying that He will USE whatever it takes for us to understand He is God and we have no right to argue with the way He does stuff. That is essentially what He was saying to Isaiah. I apologize this was probably not the right time to focus on that, forgive me.

  17. saled says:

    Follow the gifts to the Giver. It used to bother me that God wanted us to worship him; I just didn’t understand that. Then I heard a Bible teacher say that the reason that God desires worship is because that is how God gives Himself to us. Then it all made sense; the worship isn’t for His benefit, it is for ours.

    At age 14, I worshiped Bobby Orr. For those of you who are less than 50 or who live outside the U.S., Bobby Orr was the famous Boston Bruin defenseman who once scored over 100 goals in a season. He was larger than life, this defenseman who often led the NHL in scoring.
    When the ice was good on the pond by my house, I used to be Bobby Orr with my imaginary team surrounding me.
    I read about him, watched him on TV, even imagined that someday I would marry him. I remember thinking that I must be a little mixed up-did I want to marry Bobby Orr or BE Bobby Orr?

    Today my favorite name for Jesus is Emanuel-God with us.
    The Bible says that as he grew up, he grew in stature and in favor with God and man. He was the kind of man that attracted people. Many people loved Him. Imagine being a lepper that he reached out and touched. Imagine being the woman caught in adultery that he stood up for,or the parents of the girl that he brought back to life. And think about this: he wants to live in us, to live His life through us. What a mystery, that we can be individuals, and yet be part of Him. He wants a relationship with us.

    If the ice is good this winter I will skate and I will remember Bobby Orr. But I don’t try to be like him anymore. My eyes are on Someone else now, and my hope is to be more like Him. Steve mentioned love as being above gifts-maybe love IS a gift, the way the Giver makes us like Himself.

  18. daisymarygoldr says:

    Follow the gifts…

    There is plenty of room for gifts—but no room for The Gift…

    “There was no room for them in the inn” (Luke 2:7).
    “He came unto his own and his own received him not” (John 1:11).

    His gifts were always received with wide open arms and every man went to his own house but no one ever invited Him… Jesus went unto the Mount of Olives” (John 7:53-8:1).

    This Christmas is there any room for The Gift?

    Today the scene is not much different, while everyone is focused on gifts, Jesus- The Gift, stands outside and pleads “I stand at the door and knock”

    Hope the gifts do not crowd The Gift from my life…

    My family reciprocates their special Christmas greetings to Steve, Glenna and Matt and also to you gr8grannyjacobs!

    Wishing you all a very merry Christmas!

  19. Mart De Haan says:

    On the issue of whether God creates evil (Isa 45:7),several translations and language reference books give the late Bible teacher Vernon McGee reason to say, “The word evil does not mean wickedness in this instance, but rather “sorrow, difficulties, or tragedies”—those things which are the fruit of evil, the fruit of sin. This is the Old Testament way of saying, “The wages of sin is death …” (Rom. 6:23). If you indulge in sin, there will be a payday for it!”

    With this explanation, God’s gifts (i.e. the gift of his presence and help in disaster)fit the statements of Scripture that God does not and cannot be tempted with evil (James 1:13)… and is the source of all that he sees as “good” for the management of his universe.

    This allows for God to be in ultimate control even of what moral rebels are allowed to do.

    If at this point our minds cannot see the difference between God allowing or creating evil (although there is a huge difference) maybe our hearts can be softened as we see His Son bearing the full, eternal, inexpressible terror of the evil he allowed– to give us the gift of freedom (limited as it may be).

    That God gives us the freedom to choose wrong, and to experience the terrible consequences not only of our own wrongs but of the wrongs of other humans and demons is part of the unseen reality that God alone sees and understands.

  20. SFDBWV says:

    Pooh, If you look in your concordance, you will see that the Hebrew word for evil in the verse of Isaiah 45:7, is the same word used in Genesis 2:9 “the tree of knowledge and *evil*.

    A long time back I got one of thoes multi version Bibles that have 4 different interpetations. I thought it would be a good study reference. I was wrong.

    What I found was that some of these new interpetations change the meaning of a word to fit their direction of thinking. Something that makes *modern* sense.

    In the Book of Job I found one modern version interpetation that called Behemoth a hippo and leviathan a crocodile. Clearly there are Hebrew words for each of these animals. So the editors of the modern version just changed the words to fit modern understanding of animals we are familiar with.

    This is warned against in the Book of Revelation (22:19), not to change the words as written.

    I say all of this so you understand why I stay with the King James version and if there be any need to study deeper any word, I go to a concordance to find the original meaning from Hebrew or Greek.

    I do not trust, modern versions of scripture to be accurate, but that they can be decieving.

    Steve

  21. SFDBWV says:

    Thinking about gifts…

    God’s gifts to mankind, include a long long list. Start with life, then add to that every good thing. Including eternal life in a heavenly paradise.

    God’s gift of Jesus of Nazareth, gives us something unheard of before His coming….Hope.

    The gift of Jesus, gives us the foundation of our faith. Our faith now looks to God with hope to overcome all obstacles through the gift of His Son the Christ.

    What better gift can there be?

    Steve

  22. Mart De Haan says:

    Good morning, Steve, noticing above looks like you and I were typing at the same time. Around a cup of coffee (am sitting at a Panera coffee shop watching the snow fall outside) I’ll bet we could have a good discussion :-).

  23. Mart De Haan says:

    One of the reasons I think the subject of “following the gifts” is so important is that I keep catching myself– and I think others– subtly forgetting that it’s all about what God has done, is doing, wants to do, and will do– for us.

    I ran into a discussion yesterday in which someone was suggesting that we are saved not by “faith” but by “faithfulness”. A case was made that that’s what the word meant in the original. Even though the original language does seem to allow for “faith” or “faithfulness” (depending on the context)– suggesting that we are saved by “our faithfulness” destroys the very meaning of the “good news” of Christ.

    Even when– what we choose or do in response to what he has done for us becomes the issue– even our response– if it is to honor God– must come by our submitting to the work and grace of his Spirit in us…

    The Good News as stated above in group’s comments is all about the Gift/gifts of God… for both salvation… growth… in his grace/gifts….

  24. SFDBWV says:

    Yesterday was an icy mess. Ice covered everything. The worst of which was the roadways and pathways.

    However no rain came. Only a fog and mist that froze upon contact. It also raised above freezing for the first time is weeks.For this I thank the Lord.

    But last night at 10pm I needed to get Glenna to the hospital. She was experiancing uncontrolled tremblings.

    I cannot leave Matthew unattended. So I called upon a neighbor, Karen. She is a registered nurse and very dear friend. She came straight out of bed and took Glenna to the hospital for us. They got back around 2am. Glenna will be alright.

    The rain stayed away, the ice wasn’t as bad as predicted and the temp had risen enough to make the highways useable…For this I thank the Lord…Another gift, they just keep coming.

    Steve

  25. foreverblessed says:

    Mart, thank you for bringing it up, it is so right, it is all about what God has done for us.

    If for any reason we can say, “yes but I answered the call from God, and that’s why I am saved”, then we still have reason to boast.
    Gal 2:8-10 not by works, so that no one can boast.

    But then, what if we do not obey? Then we did not understand what it did cost Jesus to rescue us.
    The first gift we receive is that of forgiveness. Our sins are forgiven, so we are saved from being lost.
    How precious that gift is.
    Being forgiven, the burden of sin is gone. Mercy for us.
    If we realise how much it did cost to be saved, it did cost a Lamb to be slain, the Lamb that had been slain, as Steve said, Revelation 5:6-14
    God is still in the business of His Kingdom, and that is redeeming lost people, and that means suffering of the Lamb, that is His Gift to the world.
    That is what I want to be have a part in, because He has redeemed me.

  26. SFDBWV says:

    Yes Mart, it seems we are creatures of similar habits. Rising early to be one of them.

    Indeed we could have a great conversation, today though instead of my porch swing, your coffee shop sounds much better.

    Dense fog here this morning, yard filled with turkeys and deer….and snow…

    Steve

  27. poohpity says:

    The original translation into the KJV was done in 1611 when the Queen wanted her son the then Prince James to rule His kingdom with the knowledge of scripture. Translators have since learned more appropriate English words for the original text. I am not saying that the KJV is wrong but more research has been done since then to determine better words than the 1611 version. I guess if one wants to really not mess up the original text or meaning then they would have to learn Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. Some churches i.e. Mormon church that veer from the truth use only the KJV because of the confusion.

  28. SFDBWV says:

    Pooh if you really want to argue about the King James Bible verses new translations here, we can do that.

    The Mormon Church has their own bible as I am sure you know. It is called the Book of Mormon.

    If they understood anything written in the King James version of the Bible they would abandon following after the nonsense written in their book of Mormon.

    The World Wide Church of God, the Baptist’s, the Church of Christ, and many more Protestant churches still use the King James. So do I.

    I also have an American Catholic Bible. It is translated into english from the original Hebrew, Latin and Greek. It concurs and agrees with the King James.

    You may choose whatever translation you wish, just be prepared to have clashes with others who choose differently.

    Is your new translation bible saying that God did not place the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden? And that God did not create the tree? The Hebrew word for evil found there in Genesis is the same word used for evil in Isaiah 45:7. So Evil existed before the fall of man.

    Some could argue that Satan created evil, but nowhere in scripture is the power of creation given to Satan. Only the power to corrupt that which is already created.

    God created everthing, from nothing. Nothing existed before it was created by God (John 1:3) “All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made, that was made.” Evil is something.

    Steve

  29. poohpity says:

    Wow Steve, I was only discussing. Which I will end my thoughts here because obviously it is causing a problem that we think differently.

  30. poohpity says:

    Please refer back to Mart’s thoughts as well.

  31. dependent says:

    I chuckle as I imagine a dispute between a native speaker of ancient Hebrew (or Greek, or Aramaic) and a 21st century reader of 17th century English over “original meaning”. Exactly how does one ‘shoehorn’ the subtle nuances of a concept (which may have been symbolized with a dozen separate ancient words) into a ‘modern’ language equipped with fewer choices? Who would “win” the argument? What codex fragments would they bring to the table?

    Is a new translation for a Laotian hill country tribe judged for ‘accuracy’ against the wording of the KJV? LOL

    Human language is symbolic and imperfectly suited to reveal a perfect God. Thankfully He sent a living, breathing Jesus the Christ to *show* us who He is.

  32. dependent says:

    Joking aside, to appreciate the *Gift* to the fullest we must delve into the nature of the *Giver* Himself. And human language *necessarily* falls short in describing the absolute perfection, the holiness, the magnificance of the Creator–His Glory.

    Here’s how I see it in light of scripture:

    I believe it is literally and symbolically true that darkness is the absence of light. Further, that God controls, commands and is sovereign over darkness and light–both in the literal, natural universe and in the spiritual domain.

    If we accept God as the living definition of all that is perfect and righteous and holy–the glorius embodiement of “good”–then it follows that anything/anybody that exists in a state less than that is “other than” God. Created by Him and subject to varying degrees of “absence” from the ‘light’ of the perfect standard of His nature.

    Some in God’s creation were granted the ability to choose behavior that embraces that God’s holy standard and presence or reject it. Could it be that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is a symbol of that choice? As soon as God commanded Adam and Eve to not partake–of the fruit of that awareness of “the other” reality–he gave them the ‘gift’ of that choice between darkness and light. Between the fruit of perfect union and fellowship with their Creator or “something other”–namely moral evil. Wickedness. Placing the Creator’s will subordinate to the created’s will.

    So the way I grasp Isa 45:7 and Jam 1:13 is this:
    “evil” is the absence of God’s “goodness” as darkness is the absence of light. The fruit of evil (the absence of His perfection) in people/angels is wickedness/sin. God doesn’t tempt us or seduce us to wicked actions. He does however allow us to experience various degrees of the effects of evil (our or others’ wickedness or natural calamity) to test our faith, to mature in Him. The absence of His perfection in this sin-cursed world nature is “calamity”. And He controls all of it–by sovereignly inhabiting and revealing the light of His Glory in nature, people, nations and the course of history. When He withdraws His goodness, hearts are hardened, nations rebel and the fruit of evil-wickedness-prevails.

    The Good News is that He chose to send the *gift* of Light into the world to rescue us from a kingdom of darkness and to ultimately be reunited into perfect union with the glory of His goodness. Until that final day He chose to use His newly adopted kin, redeemed from darkness, to live in the light of His love so that others can be released from the captivity of darkness.

    Praise be to the “I AM”.

  33. poohpity says:

    I never intended for it to sound as if I was against the KJV as I sent Steve an email that stated that as long as someone reads the bible it makes no difference what translation they use. I also discussed exactly what you were saying dependent although my wording was not as eloquent as yours.

    I apologize if I caused anyone to think I was against any translation of the bible that was not my intent at all and causing the discussion to go off topic.

  34. pegramsdell says:

    Steve, Praise God that Glenna is okay. I’m sorry you had to go through all of that, but I’m sure God used you for an opportunity to touch someone. There is a season for everything…..(don’t even know why I quoted Solomon just now). But felt lead to do it. Hope you all had a Merry Christmas. :)

  35. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I like your discussion Pooh and Steve.

    I know that Hebrew and Greek are ment to be the only “perfect” languages and therefore are ideal in reflecting the truth of a perfect God.
    But the King James version is a miraculous gift in itself.
    For whatever reason it was made it was done in such a way as to make it a classic reference bible. When they were translating it, probably from Latin and Greek, they used to speak the words out loud so as to get the rythm and poetic sound that it has today.
    Remember this was a revelution as well as a revelation to the common man who could neither speak Latin or read English. To have this miraculous translation read out to them from the pulpit that sounded twice as good as any Shakespearian play must have drove them crazy at the wonders of what God had done for them.
    Let us not put our language down. It has the largest vocabluary of any language in use today and is the instrument of knowledge and enlightenment throughout the world. If God had wanted Hebrew and Greek to be the language of the last days He would have made it so! Whenever I read the Message Bible, or any other modern translation, I always refer back to either the Amplified or King James to be sure of the meaning.
    God has given us this wonderful ability to read, hear and understand which many in the world still do not have.
    Bob

  36. SFDBWV says:

    About 30 plus years ago I recieved a “Living Bible” as a gift. I loved it. I still do. It made sense of the archaic english language in the King James. Especialy the OT.

    Then of course I had to argue with others concerning my use of it. So my retort was as “dependant” refered to, I would ask my tormentors what Bible did they think the Germans or the Chinese used?

    All scripture is translated from Hebrew, Greek, Arabic and Latin into whatever language need to be translated into.

    Because of Alaxander the Great, Greek became the language of choice by the civilized world at the time. So the Jewish Rabbi’s living in forign lands wrote the Torah into Greek. So we have the wonderful Greek language to help us better understand what was originaly written in Hebrew.

    The Word is definately one of the most treasured *gifts* God has given us. And as mentioned by others above. it is for us to search and diligently draw closer to the writer of it.

    Thank you Peg for your concern and comments.

    steve

  37. foreverblessed says:

    Steve, I am still praying for Glenna, I mist your post about her. How is she doing, besides her physical posotion? Is she in good spirits? All sure in faith, not wavering, but holding on to the faith, tell her that I pray she will grow in faith, in persevering.

    About the other things, wasn’t Mart talking about the Giver. I was more in line the last few days, thinking what God is giving us. It is the Giver who is our Father. We must accept what He gives wholeheartedly, before we can think of giving ourselves. We cannot give anything, but the things God has given us. So if He has comforted us, been mercifull to us, been healing us, we can give that on to others.
    Comfort one another with the Comfort we oursleves have received from God. 2 Corhinthians 1:4
    So the more we receive, not for receiving it per se, but because we are nothing if we do not receive from God, do you get what I mean?

    God the Giver.

  38. foreverblessed says:

    About the literal meaning of words, often we must see the intention behind it, the literal meaning will not often bring us there where God wants us.
    What is the intention of it.
    When God created free will in beings, He created the possibility of beings choosing evil things. So that makes God indrectly the author of evil, but not directly. Just like dependent said.
    And when God created Adam, Satan was already around, so the evil was there already. When God put the 2 trees int the garden, He gave them the choice, do you follow me or do you follow the evil one, Satan.

  39. foreverblessed says:

    Steve, for Glenna, I do not mean this as superior, but as an encouragement, because I go through the same things. If God does not yet heal, there must be something else to bel gained from all this physical ilness, that is what I mean, to encourage her. To stand at the side and cheer her, go on Glenna! God is with you in all this, with me in all this migraine. Later we will know what He was doing, He does not tell us in advance.

  40. foreverblessed says:

    Yes, and I thank God for this blog. Many times I cannot go to chuch, and I stay with my family, but then still I have the knowing I am part of a christian fellowship, encouraging one another in the faith in Christ. I am so happy that you have found your faith alive again, that Jesus directed you to this site, and see how frim you are back in faith. Thanks to our Ron Ben etc, that God could work through him. How will he be doing?

  41. poohpity says:

    Mart, you asked what did it cost God to become one of us. I wish I could really understand that but all I have ever been is human. I know for me at times to die to self is a feat all in itself. I have never been Deity but I would like to think I am god sometimes and can make things go the way I want them to go. I find myself trying to get people to look up to me then turn around and fall on my face. I would love to be able to change someone’s life for the better but then I would be putting my self in the place of god again and I do not want that kind of responsiblity. I would like to just be able to love someone and not want anything back but I find that is impossible too.

    So why God would want to become one of us I can not imagine except that He was still also God. I would give to world to be able to look past the ugliness I see in mankind and see the good but I struggle so much with just that. God does. God sees past the ugly to someone who was worth giving up all that is good to lay His life down as a ransom for all even those who may never believe in Him. That is a cause for joy to be loved to such an extent. I will never understand why but He did.

  42. Mart De Haan says:

    poohpity, I think your comments here touch on the wonder of God’s inexpressible goodness and love– from which, apparently, all of his gifts come to us. If such thoughts inspire gratefulness and love for him– because he first loved us… then it seems that our hearts are responding to his heart.

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